lore-discussion

[peak escarp]

they're not going to delete any heroes

and a VA's politics are irrelevant

[tranquil orbit]

Idk i think a lot of ppl have been pretty vocal abt how they would support this change

Unlikely from a logistical pov but i feel like it's not completely irrelevant

[peak escarp]

if they were going to fire a VA over their opinions Jen Hale would have been fired years ago for speaking out against Blizzard's scandals

[tranquil orbit]

She did what

[peak escarp]

back when the Cosby suite stuff came out Jen Hale was very vocal about trashing Blizzard on social media

and Ashe didn't get any new lines for a while, which led the community to think she had been fired

[tranquil orbit]

As in acting like the scandals didnt happen or the inverse?

[peak escarp]

no saying Blizzard is horrible and should be sued

[tranquil orbit]

Oh thats perfectly understandable lmao

Idt it's similar at all to the cohn situation ngl when youre taking abt character representation

I feel like it's different

[peak escarp]

the VA isn't the character

they don't have to have the same beliefs

[tranquil orbit]

True but having a hardcore zionist repping pharah is not a good look imo

[peak escarp]

a what?

she doesn't seem that "hardcore"

[tranquil orbit]

Idk in response to someone saying free palestine she said that it's "not very Overwatch values" which i think is quite a big issue

Either ways this isnt the place to discuss im sorry i brought it up

[peak escarp]

is that all? the way people talk about her you'd think she was dropping bombs herself

[tranquil orbit]

Nah theres more but i dont want to list here like i said

[peak escarp]

well anyway

Blizzard doesn't care

[foggy zenith]

Even worse now that it’s Blizzard-Activision now lol. CoD (Activision) has had long standing issues with PR even before the merge. Blizzard has an awful track record with not caring about their fan base or their workers all the way back from 2018

[peak escarp]

it's been Activision-Blizzard since before Overwatch started

[foggy zenith]

Has it? I heard that they did the official merge only a couple years ago

Around the time that Xbox and Microsoft started buying up and consuming a bunch of larger companies

[peak escarp]

they merged in 2008

[foggy zenith]

Oh?? Weird that people kicked up such a fuss about it a couple years ago then

[peak escarp]

and added King (the game company that makes Candy Crush and other mobile games) in 2015

[foggy zenith]

Ohh it was when Microsoft bought them up

Microsoft also has an awful track record of just not caring about their companies lol. I feel like the only real way to get fan representation in a game now is by supporting indie developers or non-triple-A games

[peak escarp]

it's been like that for a long time

corporations don't care

individual developers care, but their hands are tied

[foggy zenith]

Yeah it’s either sell their game to a bigger company for extra money to support their game but sacrifice the quality, or try to keep working on their game with the limited resources they have

[keen summit]

The thing is what blizz is doing is best for pr cuz both sides are very extreme, so just not saying anything is the safest bet

[foggy zenith]

Yeah, but I doubt they’re doing it specifically for their PR. I really think they just don’t really care about things like that LOL even when they’ve gotten in large public trouble before, they seem to be very big fans of just ignoring it or tossing out something new to distract from the issue

Like I would be genuinely very deeply surprised if blizzard actually made a statement about anything yk

[tranquil orbit]

Part of it is also that Activision were v much becoming the dominant part of that merger and also the part w the worse devs

Mergers very rarely end up perfectly balanced and activision started getting a terrible rep in the mid 2010s

Call of duty slop

Also the "frat boy workplace culture"

[spare fox]

yeah but we're getting off topic of the lore discussion

[tranquil orbit]

Ok lemme bring it back on topic w a silly q

How does venture breathe while digging underground

And can we get venture w a gas mask look i think it'd be cool

[past copper]

Well, given a person can survive inside a buried coffin up to 5 hours, I’d say Venture is more than safe

[tranquil orbit]

True but you have oxygen in a coffin not to mention youre not doing anything physically intensive

Tbh ik it's mostly rule of cool but i just want an excuse for venture to get some more looks 😭

[past copper]

Maybe, but realistically, Venture can’t be physically intense when actually drilling

They have to go slow in actuality compared to the game

Not only to prevent the tunnel from collapsing too quickly, but to avoid damaging any relics or artifacts they come across

[tranquil orbit]

Ooo thats actually another good q

Does venture have a secure lil mini box to store fragile stuff

New headcanon

[past copper]

I’m still calling out this future collab. Gurren Lagann with Venture as Simon

Someone already made a concept the moment they saw Venture

Altho, idea for Venture come this Halloween Horror. Slasher Venture with a chainsaw instead of a drill?

Better then Soldier’s slasher skin

[tranquil orbit]

I rly like this colour scheme acc it's well done

[tranquil orbit]

Also YES

Absolutely

[past copper]

I found a better concept art for Simon Venture

[oblique dome]

When will the Eagle Warrior Reaper skin be back in the shop?

[peak escarp]

they dig a tunnel that has plenty of air in it

[oblique dome]

Did some one know ?

[golden oak]

I’d be more concerned with them having no helmet and not getting scalped by the friction from moving through rocks and stuff with high speed

Ngl a venture Skin with some helmet would be cool

[tranquil orbit]

Idk im pretty sure thats not how tunnels work but sure 😭

Moles can only breathe underground for example because of a unique hemoglobin adaptation in their blood cells which allows for more oxygen retention which kinda got me thinking

That'd be so dope for venture

[tranquil orbit]

Also this

Some kind of full face gear when they were a trainee wayfinder would be so cool

Like just thinking abt how all these small qs might lead to wider world building is rly whats so nice abt narrative design

[foggy zenith]

Actually, they might not be too far off. Soil is about 45% mineral, 5% organic matter, 20-30% water, and 20-30% air. By the looks of it, Venture’s tunnels are incredibly close to the surface, and the way the breakage looks is indicative that their tunnels are very open and loose, and it’s presumed that they would have enough air to breathe for a short burst of time. But this is the same mechanic that allows them to burrow into Lifeweaver’s petal, and the hood of the payload, so we can assume “cartoon physics.”

Here’s a scholarly article for reference:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/soil-air

[tranquil orbit]

Idk i was making the assumption that theyre not always burrowing super close to the surface

Otherwise how do they get into that talon intrusion in the short

That's solid rock isnt it

You'd suffocate while constantly drilling after a while

But i agree the science isnt rly important

I just want cool haemoglobin injections for the wayfinders 👀

[foggy zenith]

Idk, the breakage in game is indicative that they’re disrupting the soil pretty close to the surface. I’ve seen the way drills work on industrial oil pads (and those are some MASSIVE drills) and they don’t disrupt the earth like that if they’re deep enough, even when moving horizontally. They may have simply dug in deeper to get into the talon base, but in-game, it appears that they’re not getting too deep

[tranquil orbit]

In game yes but in the shorts idts

[foggy zenith]

Plus it’s that whole balance of game vs lore LOL

[tranquil orbit]

Like this should need a mask for sorts lmao

The goggles are a nice look tho

Like i said tho the science doesnt rly need to make too much sense because it never has in OW but i would love it if there was some cool story behind wayfinder enhancements or even just knowing what their training looks like

We know venture isnt one of the higher ups so thats a starter

Venture asf 😭 ^

[peak escarp]

what do you mean that's not how tunnels work?

boring drills leave a tunnel behind them

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but thats massive venture's is tiny

And theres a high risk of rocks collapsing back in on themselves

And even in situations where there is a tunnel behind ppl still often use masks as ive shown to assist breathint

Because low oxygen environment

[peak escarp]

moles leave tunnels behind them too

they're not constantly swimming through dirt

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but as ive said it's not the same because they have specific adaptations to assist their oxygen intake

Which is why i was wondering if maybe the wayfinders did something similar

[peak escarp]

Venture doesn't live underground

they'd just hold their breath

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but u still need to burrow 😭 idt venture is just perma holding their breath

Swimming pool sloan cameron yk

[peak escarp]

I just don't think they're underground long enough for it to be a concern

[tranquil orbit]

Fair i disagree mainly cos i just want to see more details lmao

[lunar gust]

Is bunnyribbit a valid ship or no

[tranquil orbit]

What lucio dva?

It's valid if u like it and it's not problematic/straight up insane or disproven

But as for the current story i wouldnt say theres a crazy amount of evidence for it

That being said i wouldnt write it off forever

[lunar gust]

As long as jts not problematic im good to ship it i think its a good pair thanks

[scenic parcel]

A mole venture skin would be cool

Blizzard should introduce a skin designing contest with some getting added to the game as the community would have so many ideas

[tranquil orbit]

I think theyd love to do that and idt it's an ideas issue necessarily it's whether they can roll skins out for the battle passes and shop rotations on time

Thats the main reason we get so many recolours imo rather than lack of ideas

I think a fan colab would be a very nice gesture though

[peak escarp]

there's legal reasons why they can't do that

[tranquil orbit]

Wait rly?

[peak escarp]

yes

[tranquil orbit]

Is it because workers

Technically unregistered w no contracts

Or IP?

[peak escarp]

the person who designs the skin would have to sign away any right they had to the design

[tranquil orbit]

Ah so IP

Idk i reckon they could still make it work assuming everyone was on the same page

It would be difficult tho you're right

[peak escarp]

and knowing ABK, it would be without compensation

they already have artists and designers on staff, why farm it out to the community

[tranquil orbit]

I think mainly just as a gesture as like a way to allow fans to see some of their biggest requests/ideas in game

It could be nice

I always see ppl complaining abt same characters getting skins or not enough variety so it could be nice

[peak escarp]

for every good fan skin there's 100 more that are terrible

[tranquil orbit]

But probably not v easy

[tranquil orbit]

True theyd probably need to work within a small circle

And then ppl redirect anger to content creators ig

Yh i can see why this might not work the more u think abt it

[woven vine]

i love all the fan concepts if only they would give her a skin xd

[slate sable]

will overwatch ever add bread* not a joke

[strange kernel]

actually... theres already bread in the game

[slate sable]

im gona change my uh negative review

thanks

[strange kernel]

nah dont change it you cant eat it

[slate sable]

erm

my negative review was

no bread

= bad

[strange kernel]

yes BUT... never admit youre wrong to blizzard

[slate sable]

fair

im gona say

no peanut butter = bad

after that i need the jelly

also btw technically

tf2 exist in overwatch

theres a tf2 like hat in one of the maps

hidden

[woven vine]

we have peanut butter

jelly im not sure

[frail snow]

Does anyone think we'll get a Pixar quality (Dragons, Calling, Kiriko, Zero Hour, HD 3D in general) animated short at gamescom? And if we do what would you want it to be: Future lore focused (Zero Hour, Calling) or Backstory/Origin/Hero Introduction Combination (Wastelander, Kiriko)

[bronze hedge]

id really want a origins one for hammond

betwixt the havoc written by the gorillas in the colony

he was the one fabricating his escape

[grand wedge]

I don’t think so. Too expensive and time consuming to make, and it seems they are outsourcing their 2D animations now. But who knows 🤷‍♀️

[spare fox]

I'm hoping for the best but 100% expecting nothing, which is still optimistic bc the last announcements at blizzcon and after they have taken stuff away from the game

So basically I'm expecting nothing new (maybe space ranger which we already knew about) and hoping for a break even of nothing else taken away lol

Oh and more collabs of course.

I don't hate or even dislike collabs, just bitter that that's basically all the new content we are getting anymore

[halcyon cosmos]

Guys who do you think zenyatta could beat lore wise

oops im disconnected from the conversation hold on

[merry mason]

Zen is pretty low tier lore wise

Anyone know when they update the website with the hero information

[opaque tundra]

Usually they post bios on launch day

[tranquil orbit]

I still reckon juno is a callsign

In traditional ow format

[scenic parcel]

I think Juno is probably jiayis daughter

[grand wedge]

(i hope for her clone, would be less boring and more badass)

[scenic parcel]

She looks young and has the picture of mei which could be passed on from jiayi

Either way works

Would be cooler if she was a clone because we have quite a lot of parent child relatives already

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh i don't buy into the whole she looks too young argument when basically every ow character looks younger than their age

Medical advancements go brrrr

[scenic parcel]

Yh true

As far as we know is there a functioning Mars base

Or is it being setup by red promise project

[tranquil orbit]

Functioning but it could be unfinished is my prediction

"Project red promise" sounds like a work in progress code name title

[scenic parcel]

Given the history of horizon lunar colony you would hope things have gone better this time lol

[tranquil orbit]

Dont trust lucheng lmao

Altho shes gonna be another goodie 2 shoes isnt she i hope not 😭

[scenic parcel]

Could she have left because of something shady going on or has she left from an emergency

Maybe a dust storm

[tranquil orbit]

I think it's gonna be super hard to guess without more info

All we know is that shes trying to contact some kind of mission control

[scenic parcel]

I just hope they give her some release content for next season

If she is a goody 2 shoes it's likely that she will look for mei and possibly join overwatch

[merry mason]

I’m guessing there’s some crisis going on at the mars colony

[peak escarp]

Juno's name is Teo Minh

she's not Jiayi

but could still be Jiayi's daughter

[tranquil orbit]

Interesting because Minh is a Vietnamese surname and Jiayi is Chinese

So maybe the daughter theory is correct

There is also the outside possibility that the picture w mei might not even be Jiayi at all and weve been had

[worthy rose]

Sometimes I forget that Sym canonically likes Lúcio's music

[keen vessel]

Huh. I didn't even know that.

[worthy rose]

There's a voiceline where she says that

Hold on I think I have it saved

[foggy zenith]

Yes, but it’s a commonly Vietnamese surname that is adapted from the Chinese Surname 明 (Ming/Minh) from the Ming Dynasty

Weird enough, her name would translate to God (of) Light

[worthy rose]

Here it is

[keen vessel]

Oh. I recognise it now. I don't really pay attention to symmerta.

[tranquil orbit]

Makes sense altho I'd place v strong bets shes Vietnamese

Maybe chinese vietnamese if the parent theory is correct

[foggy zenith]

Fingers crossed that she is. I was hoping to have a Laotian character but it’s a far cry lol. Having a Vietnamese character would be a great break from the typical mold

[tranquil orbit]

Agreed

Also i dont want this to come across as insensitive but i still have no clue why venture was introduced as canadian

Maybe it's cynical of me but they seemed v reluctant to just label venture as a mexican character and wanted to do the "2nd canadian character" or marketing reasons

[foggy zenith]

Just because they’re ethnically also Mexican doesn’t mean they’re also not Canadian

[digital linden]

i would never guess they were canadian if i didn’t know directly

[tranquil orbit]

Nah im not saying that but theres basically 0 references to their canadianess

[tranquil orbit]

Thats what im saying

[merry mason]

i think it's because the voice actor is mexican-canadian

[tranquil orbit]

VA isnt canadian

Mexican american

[merry mason]

could have sworn thye were canadian

[tranquil orbit]

Nah val is from LA iirc

Or california for sure

[merry mason]

maybe they didnt want to do america and went for canada

[tranquil orbit]

It's just the way they introduced them to the audience on introduction as the "2nd Canadian character" kinda rubbed me the wrong way

Almost as if they were ashamed to call them or market them as mexican

Not saying thats necessarily what happened but still it's weird

Im also not saying that we dont need more canadian or US characters or anything like that but i think the marketing decisions and choices of words are strange

Like idk if yall were around for this but me and at least a few other ppl here were duped into thinkjng they mightve been first nations canadian which wouldve been so fire

[scenic parcel]

Would make sense as I'm pretty sure America is the most common character nationality for the game at the moment

[tranquil orbit]

Idk didnt stop them from giving kiri an LA accent 💀

It's a funny phenomenon in a lot of american media where they decide to alter accents and ethnicities and stuff to be more "palatable" to the market

[scenic parcel]

I have a question

[merry token]

They were born in Mexico and raised there for a bit

[scenic parcel]

Does overwatch have different voice actors for each language

[grand wedge]

the do voice overs in other languages if that's your question?

[merry token]

The VAs for other languages are generally not the same VAs as the English ones

[tranquil orbit]

As in living for most of their adult life

Ik they were born in mexico

Sorry i shouldve clarified

[past copper]

Yo! Ngl S. Ranger gone be meta as all get out but I’m all for it

That Ray gone be interesting to see

[tranquil orbit]

Space ranger core

Or juno core i should say

Also btw juno VA is xanthe huynh so her being vietnamese is almost certain

[peak escarp]

yeah

glad they're adding a new ethnicity to the roster

and nationality - Mars

[tranquil orbit]

Is the mars colony acc registered as a nation tho esp if it's a private lucheng project

[scenic parcel]

A bit of a philosophical question but do the omnic characters have nationalities or is it just countries that they were made in

[tranquil orbit]

Like if a baby was born in space idt they assume nationality of like the ISS 💀

They just take from their parents

[peak escarp]

besides Orisa, none of the omnics have nationalities

(sorry for the accidental react, mobile discord sucks)

[scenic parcel]

It could be like antarctica in real life in the sense that its a shared territory

[peak escarp]

many countries do grant citizenship to the children of nationals, but not all

[tranquil orbit]

Yh like rule of blood

[peak escarp]

for some countries, you only get citizenship if you're born there

[tranquil orbit]

Interesting

Ig this depends on if juno is rly jiyai's daughter or not

[scenic parcel]

Also overwatch is set in 50 years time roughly so rules and laws could change

[tranquil orbit]

True however i imagine things like this remain relatively stable we havent been made to believe otherwise

It's possible though

[scenic parcel]

If pre omnic crisis life was described as being really good and hopeful is there is a possibility that a lot of countries relaxed their foreign policies on such issues?

[tranquil orbit]

Maybe but idt rule of blood is particularly oppressive

It's acc more inclusive esp for countries w declining populations

[worthy rose]

Now that microsoft owns blizzard it would be a really cool mix if halo and overwatch merged

Halo has some good looking worlds which will be maps

The two games can be merged

[peak escarp]

they would never do that

[tranquil orbit]

Maybe if they give them a little something they can do a blizzard world and throw some halo references in a map

But i agree unlikely

[scenic parcel]

How many omniums were setup before the first omnic crisis

[haughty plume]

many of the omniums didn't have a date that they were created but there is about 5-6 known ones

(i think)

i know nigeria had one before the omnic crisis tho

[scenic parcel]

Yh I know of 5 confirmed ones but I feel like there's more

Russia

Detroit

Nigeria

Australian outback

East China Sea

[tropic shoal]

.

[past copper]

We got Space Ranger now. Think a potential collab with Alien is possible?

Or at the least, give Space Ranger a great Halloween skin

Idea for a Halloween Space Ranger skin

[spare fox]

She def will have interesting skins with her silhouette

[past copper]

Maybe. Hey, at least Zen, Sigma, and Echo aren’t the only floaters anymore either

[spare fox]

I remember when it was "trivia" that Zen was the only hero without footsteps recorded

[tranquil orbit]

2016 ahh trivia 😭

[cosmic sentinel]

sorry this isnt lore byt is there a channel for pictures? i need help

[spare fox]

No there isn't

[hushed jetty]

you get pic perms if you're a regular

speaking of which WHEN did i lose regular,
genuine L

[sullen girder]

So does anyone have an idea of what nationality Juno is? Maybe she shares one with Mei?

[peak escarp]

her name seems to be Vietnamese in origin

her VA is also Vietnamese

[sullen girder]

Good point. speaking of, I still can believe she is voiced by the same woman who voices in persona 5 and fire emeblem

Anyway, now all that’s left is the new tank hero and that’s all the heroes for the year.

[past copper]

As far as we know

Ya know, it’s probably a wise decision to hold off on story missions when you think about it

Bc they keep adding more heroes. Some of which could join the Overwatch team or Talon or something else

So, adding a majority of heroes for the year before even attempting the story missions again would be a better decision

And I kind of feel Juno will play a part in the story. All it takes is having a connection with someone

[spare fox]

Idk I highly doubt they're going to hold off on story missions because there's new heroes

They're going to keep releasing heroes forever since they're the bread and butter and the main course of the game

I know I keep comparing to MCU but it's going to be like MCU where they're not going to stop introducing new characters throughout the story

[past copper]

I didn’t say they’d stop making new heroes

But I mean between moving the story forward and adding new heroes every few months…

Trying to do this side by side can be difficult. So it is easier to focus on one first, then the other

[past copper]

And technically speaking, this is why they didn’t use the whole Thanos and Lady Death thing

They didn’t want to introduce a new character near the end of the last phase of the Avengers movies

They wouldn’t know how to build on her character in two movies alone

It’s a similar situation in the OWU. They try to build on a character and their place in the universe before adding them into the story

[tranquil orbit]

Yh i think if they do get back to it it's gonna be more like the anthology style storytelling they were mainly using pre-zero hour

The advantage of this is that it makes it a lot more accessible to new players and theres not as much preparation needed for every installment

Not to say that they'll never have events that happen post invasion ever again but more stuff that works more independently

Basically for the reasons ryu said it just makes adding new stuff a lot easier when u dont need to tear stuff up or ask "why wasnt x person in this place" as much

[lucid sparrow]

How old is Juno?

[peak escarp]

we don't know yet

[lucid sparrow]

And why was she staying in the space?

[peak escarp]

we don't know yet

[lucid sparrow]

[peak escarp]

we don't know any of her lore yet

only her name, her callsign and that she comes from Mars

[bleak skiff]

do we know where juno is from

her voice actress is viet iirc

[buoyant kiln]

whats viet iirc?

[bleak skiff]

vietnamese, if i remember correctly

[past copper]

Damn. Gotta love how Overwatch teaches lore loving players about other cultures

[buoyant kiln]

i knew what viet meant but the way he typed it saying "viet iirc" I thought he meant something else

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf it could be vietnamese american given their choice of voice actor and the accent of her line delivery in the trailer

Or something along those lines

Kiri's la accent was not received that well given she was born and raised in japan and i fear something similar could happen here

Which would be a shame considering they acc did a v good job esp w LW and illari

[potent temple]

If she's born and raised on mars it's easy to just say she picked up the accent for English off of how the other people up there spoke english

So even if she was taught Vietnamese from a parent or anything she could have also been taught English by an American at the same time

[keen summit]

so lucheng is potentially actually very inclusive??

then it will probs be that Juno knows jiayi but was tasked with finding mei for some reason?

this is pure speculation but IF something bad happened on mars colony its VERY funny to me that in her trailer she comes out of the pod all smiley faced

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf i was thinking abt this like maybe it's just amerjcan english on mars

However i think it's important to have a discussion abt how a lot of characters w non anglecised accents are distinctly less popular in the community and make sure we keep aware of this (altho there are some exceptions like genji and ana)

Like mei, orisa, zarya, illari, baptiste, brig, symm for example

One of the biggest draws for OW is the diversity and it's important we push for this in voice work and not only just story

I will say theyve gotten better at this over time but hearing different voices is just as important as seeing different ppl

[potent temple]

Very true

I think they should push for more representation of hero backgrounds and ethnicities both in the game and in other releases like stories and shorts and things

But voice acting does appear to be where they're lacking a lot rn

[stiff meadow]

i dont think she will be as wasnt there a picture of her and mei together? (this is under the assumption mei has never left earth)

[keen summit]

we dont know if its her as the person looks very different

[stiff meadow]

ah okay

[potent temple]

I think that's jiayi, and I'm assuming jiayi and Juno are not the same person

[tranquil orbit]

It's either the daughter/relative theory or it's not jiayi at all and weve been duped

[spare fox]

Yeah and if either she's the daughter another 18-20 year old hero - entirely likely - or they're going to ignore the timeline like they did with kiri, which I'm half expecting

"Yup here's Mei's 24 year old grad school friend!"

Lore fans: but Mei must've been in grad school 15ish years ago
T4: shhhhh we don't care anymore

--Sorry I'm bitter today--

[tranquil orbit]

Nah it's understandable they rly dont treat the lore fans well 😭

[peak escarp]

I am so tired of people bringing up Kiriko's age as an excuse for them to completely disregard the timeline

it is not that big of a deal

[foggy zenith]

Watch it be something like “she got too close to a gravitational anomaly! Time passed differently for her! Special relativity!”

[peak escarp]

and the fact that they haven't changed/corrected Kiriko's age means there's a reason behind it

we just don't know what it is

[foggy zenith]

I mean, this is the same team of developers that make plots as if they’re all locked in separate rooms and are unable to talk with each other

[peak escarp]

?

[foggy zenith]

It could be a plot oversight but they won’t correct it because

1. they want Kiri to be the new young face of Overwatch 2
2. by changing it, they admit that they goofed while stating her age and admit that her age is inconsistent with the game’s timeline

[peak escarp]

they fixed Sojourn's age

[foggy zenith]

So then see reference point 1 for the explanation

[peak escarp]

she could still be the young new face of Overwatch 2 if she was 26

also, Illari is younger than her

[foggy zenith]

Like I don’t want to be cynical, but throughout the years of watching Overwatch’s lore, I’ve had very minimal expectations that the devs actually pay attention to the way the characters fit into the lore or that the lore actually makes total sense

[peak escarp]

what are you talking about

the lore has been consistent

it just hasn't been centralized or easy to find

which is my biggest complaint

[foggy zenith]

Back in 2019-2020 ish, it was very much not consistent

That was the whole point of them making overwatch 2 and it was a huge reason a lot of people were excited for their pve. It was supposed to give them a chance to fix the lore and make something that made more sense

[peak escarp]

I still have no idea what you're talking about

[pastel stirrup]

i dont rlly think what we had was nonsensical, there just wasn't rlly any major story progression

[foggy zenith]

I literally can’t explain it any further than that because I’m at work lol

But I remember struggling with putting together something coherent for the timeline while I was trying to work on some fan projects because a lot of the comics that were coming out around that time either messed up the timeline or the ages of some agents just didn’t make sense

[peak escarp]

we got Valkyrie and London Calling in 2019-2020

none of the official comics screwed with the timeline

[foggy zenith]

Their plot dev team is probably better today (because of the whole pve) but kiri’s age and the art that they have of her with hanzo and Genji when they were younger is a huge plot hole

[peak escarp]

the art is fine

[foggy zenith]

It is very much not lol

[peak escarp]

it makes sense with the ages given

[foggy zenith]

Their age difference is not reflected in the one drawing

[pastel stirrup]

idk genji doesn't look 16 years older than kiriko there

[foggy zenith]

Yeah dude

Like the brothers would’ve had to start training when THEY were young. Why are they all training together with a child 16 years younger than them??

[pastel stirrup]

but i think the art itself is fine, she should really just be stated to be older than 21

[foggy zenith]

Who very clearly does not look that young in the photo

[pastel stirrup]

maybe late twenties

[peak escarp]

okay fine, that one drawing is inconsistent

that doesn't mean the entire lore is

this goes back to my original point - the weirdness with Kiriko's age does not ruin the timeline or destroy the lore

it's just something we don't have an explanation for

like Cassidy's tattoo

and even after we got an explanation people still think he's over 100 years old

so maybe there's no point in explaining it and people should just move on

[foggy zenith]

It doesn’t destroy the complete lore, but the dev’s inability to change her age to make more sense or provide an explanation for it is a key reminder that any lore they give us should be taken with a grain of salt. It’s an example that they may just mess with their own lore for the needs of the game (their need for a new, young mascot).

[peak escarp]

[foggy zenith]

Being super critical is part of my day job lol. That whole “Trust But Verify” thing. They haven’t proven that they can be consistent, so I’ll take what they provide but I will scrutinize it and won’t take it too seriously because they’ve kinda proven that they don’t, either

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh idk what their intentions were but i think kiriko is only a dva/genji/mercy level figure at best i feel the figures ppl will always think abt first for OW will be tracer and winston

Theyre irreplaceable

[ruby ridge]

MY GOATS ZARYA AND ILLARI RAHHHHH

[tranquil orbit]

Theyre great 😭 and they get treated so unfairly imo in terms of attention

[ruby ridge]

Don’t worry zarya’s next legendary skin is due in 23 seasons

The zarya skin department is working hard with their budget of 2 cents and a half eaten Big Mac

[tranquil orbit]

Meanwhile the juno cash reserves...

https://tenor.com/view/thursday-morning-gif-3452382699452419355

Tbf i dont wanna be too harsh we dont even know for sure yet

But if she suddenly gets way more attention than venture then they cant blame it on layoffs anymore

Also i rly dont fully agree w the "it makes them the most money" argument because HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO GET PAST PPLS PREJUDICES WHEN YOU CONSTANTLY IGNORE HEROES WHO ARE LESS POPULAR

[vital steppe]

^^^ people bring up the One drawing as if it destroys the entire setup of lore when it could truly just a stylistic choice

[digital linden]

any idea what time juno comes out? sorry if this has already been asked

[hasty tundra]

2 hours for playtest, next season for full release

[digital linden]

ty 🙂

[atomic panther]

lore is awesome

i love lore

[rain shoal]

IKR! cries in 1 epic shop skin and not a single legendary skin for Venture

[tranquil orbit]

Also apparently juno says sorry auntie to mei upon killing her

[keen summit]

well she calls mei her auntie soo

[tranquil orbit]

It's confirmed

[keen summit]

yah and on her being in team

[tranquil orbit]

Lmaooo timing

[keen summit]

yeah its also when shes in the same team

[sullen girder]

I predict Juno is probably around her early 20s, maybe the same age as kiriko

[merry token]

Personally

I’m calling late 20s on Juno

[keen summit]

Hmmm

Ill call 19

[tranquil orbit]

Early 20s would probs make the most sense

Maybe 19

Considering shes almost certainly jiayi's daughter

Who should be 40s

[vast swift]

ADD NEW SIGMA VOICELINE: ”the more you know, the more you know you don’t know, you know” maybe could be an interaction with juno?
maybe juno could respond with ”I don’t think you knew there is a mars colony, now you don’t know if there is one on venus, or pluto, you know?”

[keen summit]

Im pretty sure this was already in the game actually

[vast swift]

ok

ill check

[real vault]

if anyone wants to play feel free to add me

[peak escarp]

it's common in many Asian cultures to call older people Auntie/Uncle, even if they aren't related

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf it's common basically everywhere outside of certain western countries 💀

Do the same in eastern europe and i also know in africa

[foggy zenith]

Actually, if she’s Vietnamese or Chinese, using “auntie” denotes a more particular connotation of “Family Friend”. Otherwise it would be big sister

[tranquil orbit]

Did anyone catch any voicelines in Vietnamese btw?

Ult lines maybe?

I havent got the chance to play sadly

[agile hare]

sry bud

[peak escarp]

in Hero of Numbani Efi has to call her cousin Dayo "Uncle" because he's older than her

[tranquil orbit]

Wait theres nothing? 😭

Nooooooooo

THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY W THIS

[spare fox]

I would definitely guess that Juno is really young like 18 or 19 bc if Jiayi is her mom and she was friends with Mei in grad school, assuming neither of them were prodigies and skipped years....

[tranquil orbit]

Yh i agree w this

[spare fox]

be patient, they'll be added later

[tranquil orbit]

Max early 20s assuming jiayi had her v youhg

[spare fox]

we only just got voicelines for Illari

[tranquil orbit]

They had the mauga and illari ones for the trial

For ult esp i wouldnt expect it to be added later

[foggy zenith]

Yes, because that’s a different culture than Southeast Asia

[tranquil orbit]

I FEAR WEVE BEEN HAD

[peak escarp]

I'm just pointing out a similatiry

[peak escarp]

had?

[tranquil orbit]

Nah ignore that im just being overdramatic

I was looking forward to something more is all

[vast swift]

”Stop being dramatic :| ” ~ Orisa

[knotty sinew]

Forgot does space ranger know mei?

[merry token]

Most likely, as they have interactions implying they know eachother

[zenith mango]

how does venture know zen

cuz he ahs a voiceline when killing him'

[tranquil orbit]

They dont know zen as far as we know in the story

We know venture visited the shambali

But idr any specific mentions of zen in that

[drowsy sapphire]

I need mythic junkrat skin

[tranquil orbit]

So apparently the mars colony lost contact w lucheng

Probably the reason why she was sent to earth

It does kinda beg the q why land in dorado

Im not sure if the smooth landing was just for the gameplay trailer and if thatll translate into the story

[opaque tundra]

It was either a random landing or a miscalculation

Probably

Idk

[tranquil orbit]

Could be a miscalculation tbf considering shes never been earth

The details of this are from her voicelines where she comments abt new york, oxygen levels etc

V much a starfire vibe from the 2003 teen titans show if anyone knows

Still a bit salty no vietnamese lines ngl

[scenic parcel]

Is there a chance they saved it for her full release

[tranquil orbit]

Maybe theres an outside chance but the previous hero releases suggest this isnt the case

Esp for things like ults these things are recorded wayyyy in advance

Ill be on the lookout tho just in case

[tranquil orbit]

Also juno sometimes does cowboy things like in her interaction w ashe because her father brought some westerns to mars so she kinda picked up on them

A nice detail

[junior gazelle]

how did sigma lose his memory

[opaque tundra]

I don’t think Sigma has amnesia?

[junior gazelle]

not sure

[scenic parcel]

Well he hasn't lost his memory

But his mind is scattered so it may be hard for him to recollect specific memories

[junior gazelle]

how did it happen

[peak escarp]

he opened a tiny black hole on a space station

[zenith mango]

hanzo and syms quiver interaction is so wholesome to me for some reason lol

[scenic parcel]

Does anyone know anything about the cancelled pve mission involving genji trying to find zenyatta

[hushed jetty]

well its in suravasa
and genji does some sick deflecting or something

widow may or may not have been a miniboss

[foggy zenith]

I would argue that sigma may have Alzheimer’s, if it’s not just an effect on his mind from the black hole. He remembers events that occurred long ago (his conversation with Mercy about getting lunch together) but is not very much in the present, and he has an affiliation with music. That, or he’s become Unstuck in Time (seeing different timelines or realities at the same time) because he mentions seeing the entire universe/different dimensions.

[scenic parcel]

With sigma anything could've happened to him

He might have seen things from the black hole or his mind could be manipulating the true events

Also I'm pretty sure moira tested on him at talon which may have had certain effects on him

[foggy zenith]

Hence mentioning being Unstuck in Time

[obsidian tide]

sigma!

[foggy zenith]

It’s theorized that Black Holes could potentially be an opening to the fourth or fifth dimension due to the mathematical theories associated with them. This would mean that all facets of realities or dimensions could be perceived. It almost sounds like that’s what sigma seems so focused on, but he’s older and confused most of the time so it does come off as if he’s got Alzheimer’s

[obsidian tide]

sigma!

[foggy zenith]

I actually think it was mentioned that she was specifically asked to not perform invasive treatments or experiments

[scenic parcel]

Really? I think I remember an ingame interaction with sombra talking about sigma and moiras experiments but I might be wrong

[foggy zenith]

Sombra: The boss was talking to Moira the other day. Kept looking over at you.
Sigma: Ah, yes! He wanted the doctor to run some "non-invasive" tests.
Sombra: Ay... You come to me if they try anything, okay?

[scenic parcel]

Fair enough

[junior gazelle]

oh ok

[midnight bough]

is juno human?

[peak escarp]

yes

[sick lava]

if blizzard doesnt atleast do a juno origin story when she releases ow is cooked

[past copper]

Can’t be cooked with 100 mil players on the game

Just saying

Which I can promise you not all actually know that the lore exists

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf "non invasive" for moira and doomfist is not exactly a standard that fills me w confidence 💀

Plus we cant even be sure if sigma would speak up because he doesnt see himself as trapped (likely as a result of his mental state)

[golden oak]

Is Juno a daughter of Mei’s friend?

[indigo comet]

nah its just asian culture to call older women auntie

[tranquil orbit]

Most likely because there was the photo inside the shuttle that landed in dorado

[keen summit]

So his research was atleast sold top

[hushed jetty]

so if juno is possibly jiayi's daughter, and we assume jiayi is in her 40s by now, how old is juno,

she's gonna end up being like 20 or something

or dare i say it, overwatch's first minor /j /j /j /j

[rain shoal]

[tranquil orbit]

Yh i agree

Maybe 18-21 range

[foggy zenith]

D.Va was actually a minor at the start of Overwatch, but she had to be changed to be over 18

[peak escarp]

incorrect

some of the concepts they came up with for a mech pilot hero were minors, but when they settled on D.Va's design, she was 19

which isnt the same as D.Va being a minor

[foggy zenith]

Not incorrect, she was 16 at the time she was going to be released. It was a huge issue in the Asian community because people were outspoken and upset about it. They changed her age because of the implications of killing a minor in game.

I remember. I was in the Asian community when her age was outspoken and public interest on a 16 year old was a central key point on the sexualization and fetishization of Asian races issue in videogames.

[peak escarp]

source?

[foggy zenith]

They did age her up to 19 to fix the issue.

[peak escarp]

according to the artbook, D.Va was always 19

[foggy zenith]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchLore/comments/gkkfhi/was_dvas_age_actually_changed_from_16_to_19/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch_Memes/comments/72rqxf/originally_the_devs_were_gonna_make_dva_16_years/

[peak escarp]

neither of those are sources

they're rumors

the community has believed a lot of rumors over the years

[foggy zenith]

But when she was released, her age was adjusted to be over 18. Her initial age was 16.

So either

1. you can admit that my experience with the Asian community being upset over her being 16 existed
2. you can admit that the Asian community’s upset never existed and completely disregard a genuine and real experience

The Korean community was very upset when dva was going to be released and many were refusing to play overwatch unless it was changed. Thankfully, it was changed

[peak escarp]

I can admit that the Asian community's upset is a legitimate concern founded on a myth perpetuated by the community

[foggy zenith]

It was not a myth perpetuated by the community; unfortunately, the archives that I’m looking for don’t exist because it’s been several years

[peak escarp]

it like people thinking Mercy was originally designed as a black man because there's a design of a male Valkyrie character in the artbook

[foggy zenith]

This is not the first time that somebody has disregarded an Asian community’s genuine concern over a character just because of “source?” Or “the devs wouldn’t do that” lol

I remember researching it when I heard it in my high school game club. I remember verifying that she was 16. But this was several years ago so her age has been confirmed over 19 for longer than the material of her being 16 existed. Google populates modern forums now, and I can’t access archived or old material from 2016.

[foggy zenith]

Anyways it doesn’t matter because she’s been 19+ for the longest time. Don’t disregard Asian experience again.

[peak escarp]

I wasn't

[slow bane]

I was playing as Juno and died. When she respawned, she said "Oh moons. The others aren't ready..."
Is she talking about the other martians? Ready for what; settling back into Earth? A battle of some kind that they're training for?
Obviously she's new, so we may not have the answers. I just wanted to put it out there

[merry mason]

If anyone is wrong it should be said

Bigger controversies have been made from less probable rumors

[foggy zenith]

Yeah but having a whole Asian community get upset and assuming that nobody verified her age? It doesn’t make sense lol. I’m used to having non-Asian people disregard Asian concerns or write it off as something that never happened because I work military, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating. I am positive from my verification at the time that it wasn’t just a rumor. Overwatch had to age her up to 19 (Korean age - she would be actually 18 since babies in Korea are born at 1 year old) once she was released because they would have to up the game rating significantly if they had a minor that was killable in game

[merry mason]

It’s not because your Asian

It’s because you provided no source

The entire American community has belived rumors for the longest time too

[spare fox]

It has nothing to do with Asian concerns, she was never intended to be 16

They wouldn't have a minor (human) in a paramilitary combat situation

She's always been a young adult, she was at no point a minor while in development

[foggy zenith]

I explained why I couldn’t provide a source. If you can’t understand that, I’m not going to hold your hand and explain it for you.

[foggy zenith]

But they intended it. Before they released her, they had to up her age.

[spare fox]

No they didn't. They didn't intend anything other than making her an adult

[foggy zenith]

Look it’s all well and good that yall have the same echo chamber that most non-asian communities do, but I’m not going to waste my time sitting here and defending what the Asian community dealt with back when she was in development/about to be released.

[spare fox]

What are you even talking about??

IFFFF she was meant to be underage (which she never was), what does that have to do with the Asian community?

It's not an echo chamber it's logic and facts

[hushed jetty]

like i personally wouldnt be shocked if dva was originally 16, and ive heard that detail floating around as well, but ive never known where people got this info from

[spare fox]

Bc there's no official source on it

[tranquil orbit]

I agree because she was likely based off mecha anime like evangelion which almost always ft kids under the age of 18

However that being said we cant make accusations without some sources even if the info has been popping up a lot

However i also understand that a lot of tthose likely arent available anymore

So it's a bit of a dead end

[foggy zenith]

Also this is inherently incorrect lol. She was supposed to be a super young prodigy that got recruited to work because she won several gaming competitions. There are ten year olds that work for the military if they’re prodigies.

[foggy zenith]

It was prominent in Asian communities because it was a big issue that Koreans were using as a reason to not play the game. Non-Asian communities didn’t really care too much

And part of the reason I can’t find a direct source from blizzard is because they probably wiped it for PR, and it’s been several years since then so all info on it is drowned out. If I can somehow make a Time Machine and get that info for you, then sure, I’ll get you your source.

Surprise: the military doesn’t care how old you are as long as you can prove you have something that they want lol.

[fallow mantle]

The Kuiper Belt is something that exists in our world -

discovered in 1992

[hushed jetty]

this is fair but also i dont think ive Ever seen an official source for this, is the thing

which is odd to me given how much people believe it

[spare fox]

Lmao you think blizzard wiped it from the internet? Wtf no. It never happened. I know it doesn't fit your little weird conspiracy that Blizzard wanted or didn't want the game to appeal to Asians/Koreans

[hushed jetty]

alright relax

[spare fox]

Dva was never supposed to be 16. Yes she was a young prodigy but in game she was always 19/21

[hushed jetty]

then where the hell did the rumor come from

[spare fox]

Idk it's a rumor someone made it up

Wouldn't be the first time

Look, there's no evidence that she was supposed to be a 16 y/o hero anywhere. If there was then fine. But without evidence (official, not just some rando on reddit or yt) , we can't say it is true

It's similar to the whole "BOB ripped off Cass's arm" thing or Mercy was the original "maker" of Reaper.

You'll def find people who will say that, even swear it, but it's just not and never was true

[hushed jetty]

okay but those weren't "made up," those were theories based on what info we had at the time

dva being 16 is not something you can theorize from in game stuff

especially if it was changed before release

its very different

[spare fox]

But there's nothing official that says Dva in OW1 was 16. I'm willing to be proven wrong but it needs to be substantiated

[tranquil orbit]

i found some early alleged concept art but i dont have a verified source

doesnt necessarily confirm anything

acc wait i think u can track it back to creative uncut who compile video game concept art

it's possible this also fts in the art book but i dont have a copy so i cant confirm

[rare trail]

iirc doctor 6 has said that like before dva was like made there were ideas to make the character like 10 but like dva as we’ve known her was always 19

or 21 now but yk

[spare fox]

Ok if you find something official that says 16 fine but

[tranquil orbit]

it's not THAT crazy tbf dva has a lot of similarities to peni parker and many character from evangelion as ive said

but also spooky is right in that we probably need a bit more evidence here

[rare trail]

yeah

I also don’t think blizzard has the power to like delete stuff off the internet like ??? there should be an archive somewhere if it’s real

[tranquil orbit]

nah they can because it's their copyright and IP

they can copystrike youtube videos and take down forums if needed

and you're right abt the archive but it also makes it a lot harder to find

[rare trail]

have you like

ever heard of the streisand effect

it’s like not at all realistic they could completely remove every source from the internet everywhere

[tranquil orbit]

you're probably right

im just saying it's not entirely impossible that a lot of those sources are buried deep

esp when u take into account many of them were made almost 10 years ago

[rare trail]

yeahhh

especially bc like they can’t like delete the art book and stuff that people own

[vital steppe]

imean dva is a pretty clear cut evangelion reference

[rare trail]

and like all the way back in 2015 the voice actor for dva like posted smth that had her age as 19 like idk it’s just so much more likely she was never 16

[rare trail]

she does ? I haven’t seen evangelion what is the reference?

[vital steppe]

okay so as someone else mentioned there’s
her suits design
her mech
the enemies she fights
the original age thing people are chattering about which isn’t confirmed in itself, so, grain of salt

[tranquil orbit]

It's kids in mechs basically

[vital steppe]

id argue the enemies in her cinematic are also references to Angels in their design

[rare trail]

afaik very very early designs had like a mech character that wasn’t dva that was like very young like ten, how old are the pilots in evangelion ?

[tranquil orbit]

This is a character called rei

14ish iirc?

[tranquil orbit]

The similarities are pretty striking tho

[half pelican]

are we gonna forget how evangelion is far different than MEKA entirely 😭

[tranquil orbit]

Wait wdym

[vital steppe]

nobody’s saying they’re the same, we’re saying how there’s definitely references to it in the design choices

[tranquil orbit]

We're mostly arguing inspirations here not that theyre identical

[half pelican]

i mean writing wise not like similar design stuff dw

theyre def similar

but i saw someone saying like asuka was just like dva once on tiktok 😭 drove me NUTS

[tranquil orbit]

Nah dw idt anything ow could cook up would be anything remotely similar to eva writing wise

It's way out of the scope of what they can get away w and what would be considered tolerable by general audiences

Story defo has some v disturbing moments

[smoky tendon]

gyat!

[past copper]

Idk. I see a possible Hellsing crossover collab

Cassidy = Alucard
Widowmaker = Seras Victoria

[opal perch]

So, was Juno born on Mars?

[merry mason]

Idk but considering she seems to know nothing about earth I would assume

[tranquil orbit]

yh shes almost defo born on mars

if u peep the ashe interaction she starts mimicking westerns her dad brought w him because it's her only form of cultural reference

[scenic parcel]

She should definitely get a space cowboy skin

[slow bane]

Speaking of Juno. I was playing as her and when she respawned, she said "Oh moons. The others aren't ready..."
Is she talking about the other martians? Ready for what, exactly?

[spare fox]

man I hope we find out, and soon

[lavish vessel]

She could be, it also could just be her line for when the rest of the team is still respawning tho

[obsidian tide]

what would be the cannon reason for mccree/cassidy name change

ping me if u respond pls!

[past copper]

To hide his identity from government agents

[merry mason]

I think canonically McCree never happened

[vocal cairn]

I think they actually interpreted it into the story in a way

[obsidian tide]

oh thats cool

[spare fox]

No, it's just canon he's always been Cassidy

Blizz wanted to delete all mention of that former dev

Even when he reunites w former OW members like Ana and Soj they call him Cassidy

[peak escarp]

even Ashe calls him Cassidy - she would have no reason to call him by the new name

[glass niche]

anyone know how to turn camera in spectator mode ? my mouse isnt turning the camera idk why

[spare fox]

Sometimes it's buggy after a patch but wrong channel

[full mesa]

They did address it, the idea is that he went by McCree as a false name, but realised that he had to be true to himself

[prisma oyster]

that's pretty cool, sounds like an anime arc, thanks for the info

[prisma oyster]

known overwatch since 1 release and never thought about this somehow smh

[merry mason]

That’s what it sounded like in the post when they announced the new name but I think that was just a meta thing

[spare fox]

Right, it's only meta. In lore his name has always been Cole Cassidy

[golden oak]

Juno is Korean???

[analog palm]

I thought she was Chinese

[tranquil orbit]

Wasnt she gonna be of vietnamese descent? The surname minh was a pretty significant give away

[spare fox]

No confirmation yet but the name on her uniform is Chinese-Vietnamese

But she's from Mars so one or both of her parents might be from China/Vietnam

OR they could be/have been immigrants from China/Vietnam living/growing up in a different country

Which would be a little complicated but entirely realistic and plausible

yet another plausible explanation is that she's of Vietnamese descent but her (chinese) name is bc she's named after someone, similar to how Brigitte is Swedish but has a German name bc Rein named her

[tranquil orbit]

Also she has no vietnamese or mandarin voicelines and strictly speaks in an american accent

Which could just be mars education but it also wouldnt be the first time they assigned a strictly American VA to a non-american character

[spare fox]

yes but I think they're trying to avoid having non-native speakers anymore

she kinda has an american accent but there's definitely something more to it like

her vowels and stuff linguistically sound north american but her cadence and not using contractions at all sound weird too

[tranquil orbit]

I think it's because they tried to do starfire and basically have her not use any contractions to make her sound more from "outer space"

Also extra inserted "the" and "of" like in "why would you wish to be queen of junk?"

But shes defo american

At least from the accent pov

The rest of the stuff is voice direction

But yh i recommend listening to starfire from the 2003 teen titans show the dialogue style is veryyyy similar

[spare fox]

yeah I'm very familiar with starfire and teen titans lol

[tranquil orbit]

Sorry i was just elaborating cos ik not everyone's seen it 😭

[spare fox]

yeah I'm old I was the original target audience

[tranquil orbit]

I wasnt tbf but i saw it in romania on re run like a few years after the series finished

[peak escarp]

Juno's VA is of Vietnamese ancestry

[tranquil orbit]

She is american tho

A bit like hanzo's VA is american of japanese ancestry except he kinda puts on a faux-japanese accent

Juno doesnt

[peak escarp]

which makes sense if she was born and raised on Mars surrounded by an international crew

she would end up with a generic accent (which sounds "American")

[tranquil orbit]

Yh thats why i said her accent is most likely mars education or something

[novel void]

So has there or will there be any more lore after the missions (i.e talon finding zenyatta)

[grand wedge]

We don’t know, but we’re all waiting for it

[inland shuttle]

I know this isn’t to do with lore but I’m a upcoming streamer and need to build my community if anyone could drop a follow I would appreciate it ttv_tayzzz144

[spare fox]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[sullen girder]

I can’t wait to see what the new tank hero will look like

[peak escarp]

I'm curious about him

since what little we saw is pretty hard to make any solid theories off of

[sullen girder]

I wish we would see more of the early gameplay. Like they only did one with venture. From the looks from the picture (which yes, it’s suppose to be a funny one) he looks like he might be a junker

[midnight bough]

is juno martian or human

[spare fox]

she's a martian human

[keen summit]

well i actually prefer them first slowly teasing them

so say we got what we had with juno but if we didnt know bout her

with the space pod first being in orbit and then crashing

[tranquil orbit]

Agreed i think they kinda forgot the value of letting us anticipate and theory craft for different heroes

Assuming we get a good pay off it improves the experience

[bronze hedge]

wish they teased heroes in various ways

like they did with juno

maybe if the new tank is a junker,

we could have the playable junkers mention them on a certain place of JTown

like the little shops in . one of the points

[keen summit]

they used to

but stopped at like bap effectively. juno was technically teased but also not really cuz we already knew she was coming

[worthy rose]

We need another sniper

Almost all roles are filled but just one snipers. We need more long renge

[smoky tendon]

winston is a sniper

[rancid egret]

ana is technically a sniper

and it doesn’t make sense to have a sniping tank imo so there widow and ana two snipers

[worthy rose]

Hmm sorta feels empty so many heroes teleport and everything. But we cant have tanky sniper

[rancid egret]

i just have a hard time imagining it tbh

[keen summit]

no

[keen summit]

tank snuiper is inheritly problematic

ive tried t ocreate a concept for it but it never feels like it could fit

it would be this hyper HYPER poke tank

however we already got tank baster tank sooo

[peak escarp]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[hushed jetty]

i really dont want a third junker tank

imo we could use another hero who was directly connected to overwatch

note was

[peak escarp]

how about a former Overwatch hero who doesn't want to join Winston's recall

and actually means it

[golden oak]

I swear I heard Juno say “annyeonghaseyo” tho

[past copper]

Strong possibility he’s either a Junker or some random hero

Might depend on if the team is introducing a new criminal gang into the game

[golden oak]

I mean that’s possible since most recent heroes are from new factions

[keen summit]

or maybe los muertos

[keen summit]

or pre existing ones

[golden oak]

It looks a lot like a junker but I really doubt we’ll get a 4th (5th if you count WB) junker

Could be also someone from Venture’s faction

Since they have like spikes, maybe they’re drills or something

[tranquil orbit]

Emre 😭

The tank does look a bit like phreak from the old project titan stuff tho

[tranquil orbit]

This is also a small chance but i only say this because of the mohawk

Tbh i just think the tank looks a bit like a turtle ... i will say a new wayfinders character would be unexpected but v welcome

[past copper]

It’s highly unlikely any Los Muertos will become a character

They’re a small group from Dorado with no actual power or name recognition outside of their town

And before anyone brings up the Deadlock Gang, the difference between the two is that one became known enough to get Overwatch’s attention

While the other is just some rag tag punk gang that shakes down locals for money

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf tho weve not rly kept track of them for a while

Maybe in the power vacuum someone stepped in?

Post ow collapse

[past copper]

Hard for someone to step in after Soldier: 76 went after them

[tranquil orbit]

Idk it's not like he's constantly on them putting them into arkham asylum like batman 💀

It's not THAT unrealistic imo

[peak escarp]

he didn't dismantle the whole gang

he just took out some thugs

[potent temple]

I want more female tanks 🔥🔥

[past copper]

The only way that’s possible is to either large women or have another mech hero

And one is less likely then the other since D.Va is an absolute nightmare for the devs

Which is too bad. I’d love to have D.mon in the game

[peak escarp]

we need more large women anyway

[past copper]

Probably a bit hard to do. The female tanks can be explained by a number things, like D.Va uses a mech, Zarya a bodybuilder/soldier, Orisa a robot, n JQ…

Idk. I think hers is a mild mutation

[peak escarp]

why is it hard to do?

[past copper]

Well it depends on if they could make a large woman unique from these four or something

[peak escarp]

they've got 8 male tanks that are all different

clearly they don't have any trouble thinking of ways to make unique heroes

the roster needs more female tanks and more male supports

[golden oak]

Mama Hong

[peak escarp]

sure, if they can develop her into an actual character and not just a racist caricature

[golden oak]

Where was she mentioned btw

[peak escarp]

she's based off the Landlady from KungFu Hustle

[fallen sequoia]

why

[rich marsh]

yeah, why?

Dang, this is my first message and I don't have the "I'm new here, say hi!" thing

So active!

[gusty badger]

Nice save

[rich marsh]

we must admit

[peak escarp]

this is not the place for it

go to #general-discussion

[golden oak]

Wild how reaper was totally unchanged

[scenic parcel]

There's so many funny changes in this picture

Like mercy and angelica being two different people

Thinking about it there is a bit of a lack of mech heroes

[golden oak]

Looks like the concept mercy is today’s pharah

[scenic parcel]

We only have dva and hammond

It might be good to add some more

[golden oak]

And in earlier concept mercy was a dude

[scenic parcel]

And genji was called hanzo

[golden oak]

They were 1 hero

He was supposed to have both a sword and a bow

[worthy rose]

I need to rewatch this movie omg

[peak escarp]

the ones that didn't really change since then are Winston, Tracer, Symmetra and Reaper

Hanzo became Genji and Hanzo, Mercy became Pharah, Iris became Echo, Ironclad became Torbjorn, Longshot became Widowmaker, Angelica became Mercy

[golden oak]

Sym had a lot of reworks

Reaper literally even has current abilities there

[golden oak]

I really want McCloud he looks great

[peak escarp]

Recluse is the one I'd love to see

[tranquil orbit]

For me hivemind because shes already in the lore and might make for a cool summoner type tank

Mccloud could be dope asw like some samurai jack type story would be completely whacky but v much in line w the kinda stuff weve seen in OW

[golden oak]

Recluse also looks like she’s summoning something

[tranquil orbit]

Yh i assume that was originally her abilities

But imo it makes more sense for that to belong to hivemind

[golden oak]

Although idk if it would work in OW

[tranquil orbit]

It's quite literally what a hivemind is

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf they did try it w the bastion slicers

In the mirrorwatch

I only mention this because some ppl became more open to the idea after seeing it there

Only problem is that a summoner would likely suffer the same issues as turret characters where in low ranks theyd get too much passive value

Still I'd love to see the devs take a crack at it

[golden oak]

And it would have to be on an appropriate cool-down so ur not just shooting minions all game

[tranquil orbit]

Exactly cant be too moba

Btw speaking of hivemind how much u lot wanna bet she has something to do w the headsets that ram is using for null sector

At least in the probably now discontinued story line that they were cooking

I just find it interesting how integral she is to rein's story yet after the incident in Paraguay weve mysteriously never heard from her again

Also interesting how they subtly revealed this detail in declassified 👀

[golden oak]

And would be probably useless in high elo tbh

[tranquil orbit]

It could work as a tank tho in theory maybe

Like the minions are their way of tanking and they can create nuances to allow for some skill expression

[golden oak]

I mean you can count the minions as a shield but then you can just go for a shield hero

[tranquil orbit]

Being able to create an off angle w some minions w well timed execution could be an ok skill

Thats the difference imo w that and a shield like sigma

[golden oak]

Gotta be careful with the kit because too gimmicky characters like lifeweaver end up being unplayable

[tranquil orbit]

True however at least in this case it's not undoing ppls mistakes

I agree tho w free value entities u need to be v careful

[golden oak]

Deciding on the amount of minions, the cool-down, their damage, whether they will be ranged or melee, their hp

Too much to think about

[tranquil orbit]

I prefer to see it as a challenge 🫡

Cant have every new release be person w gun

[golden oak]

And that’s probably why we didn’t get a summoner hero yet, too much work

[tranquil orbit]

Sometimes u need a wrecking ball

[golden oak]

Wrecking ball has a gun tho

[tranquil orbit]

Yh but yk what i mean

Like the standard illari, baptiste, ashe kinda model

Like theyre cool but adventurous kits are also appreciated imo

[golden oak]

Yeah but you do see the trend of gimmicky heroes being niche or unplayable

[tranquil orbit]

I'd say the gimmicky aspect comes more from a lack of flexibility/1 dimensional playstyle rather than a character being too unique

But thats just my take on it

Anyways we should probs stop weve drifted a bit from the lore

GET HIVEMIND ASAP

[golden oak]

Realistically I don’t think they’re gonna do those old concepts anymore

It’s a new team

[tranquil orbit]

True however i think much of the hope comes from the fact that the team have said theyre open to re purposing old ideas from all the way back as project titan

The fact that they acc namedropped the likes of hivemind wildebeest and others in lore shows that theyre aware

[peak escarp]

Hivemind and a few others did still get mentioned in Declassified

so I wouldn't write them out

[spare fox]

yeah I mean why would they be like "hey this was a very old concept let's just throw it away"

[golden oak]

Well most ow2 characters are new concepts I think

And the ones that aren’t new were already seen in the lore like JQ, Sojourn, Mauga

Oh and ramattra also because storm rising

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf thats like half of the new heroes that were bubbling around in the lore somewhere previous 💀

As for who i think is likely to make an entry im going w - hivemind, emre, soundquake

Emre could a reluctant sojourn type figure trying to blow it over in retirement

And soundquake might be completely disillusioned altogether

[merry mason]

What was the hivemind name drop in declassified

[hushed jetty]

hivemind was the terrorist that lead to reinhardt retiring

[hot cairn]

I think illari should be one the overwatch crew not talon

[hushed jetty]

imo talon would be more interesting but it would make less sense

[quartz barn]

i was wondering the exact same thing

[scenic parcel]

Bap is just notoriously flirty with everyone

Are there actually any heroes that have confirmed love relationships with other heroes

[merry token]

No

The playable characters that are canonically in relationships (e,g Tracer with Emily or Torbjorn with Ingrid) have partners that are npcs

Other stuff is just hinted at (e,g genji and mercy)

[scenic parcel]

That's what I was thinking

Was cassidy ever with anyone like ashe or Dr liao

[tranquil orbit]

Ashe no

Dr liao is a common headcanon because the details are a bit less explicit but chances are probably no

They were defo close tho

[scenic parcel]

I know they got close in Norway so I was wondering how close they got

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh it's unclear but I'd recommend checking out the echo short story

To make your own judgement

My personal opinion is v close but not quite

[desert orchid]

if you like chilling and playing ow or like playing ow more seriously dm me for an inv to my discord server (this server wont let me send it)

[desert reef]

My friend told me that bap and mauga are exes. I don't think that's true tho

[shy haven]

Hi! I just bought the invasion DLC, can someone help me with the missions?

[warm shadow]

Is not as active as the other channels but is where lore people r, soo maybe they have pve

[weary quarry]

Theres a pve lfg channel

[shy haven]

okay, i just bought the DLC, trying to get in a game, been searching for 5 min now

[opaque tundra]

Queue times are long for story missions

If it takes a while you’ll be grouped with bots

You can still enjoy the missions with bots so don’t worry about having to find humans

[hot cairn]

I think her on the overwatch team would be a lot healthier than the way sombra talks to her

[hushed jetty]

healthier yes, but i think it would be interesting to see her with talon, especially since it seems oasis has a presence in runasapi and she hates moira

[patent trench]

wait illari is in talon?

is that why doomfist has that one voiceline with her?

[hot cairn]

Yes and sombra has voice line with her about illari taking on too much

[hushed jetty]

illari is not in talon

[patent trench]

illari getting “adotped” by talon would he interesting

[tranquil orbit]

Yet*

We haven't got much clue whats shes acc doing rn so shes as good as joining one as the other

However ive been saying this for a long time but doomfist is an ideal mentor figure for her

I believe she'll be highly susceptible to his philosophy

[patent trench]

i can see that happening tbh

isn’t she still traumatised from blowing up her race?

[tranquil orbit]

Not quite everyone cos the inti are still alive in runasapi

But during the ceremony none of the warriors survived

And shes 100% in self placed exile

Her new lines on the map made this clear

[patent trench]

ohhh so the warriors are dead but her people are still alive?

[tranquil orbit]

Yh more or less

I dont wanna say for certainty because her story rly hasnt been expanded on too much

But from what we know none of the warriors survived

Shes the "last"

[hushed jetty]

ye the inti warriors are all dead, but runasapi itself is fine

[tranquil orbit]

But yh her and doomfist are literal mirrors - prodigies in fighting who killed ppl close to them with their power + both believe that any show of weakness is utmost failure

It's lined up so well

I honestly think it'd be a waste if they didnt explore that

[patent trench]

is Talon even in the picture?

lore-wise

[tranquil orbit]

Oh yh for sure

Theyve been around since the museum short

[patent trench]

so far in my understanding it’s a war between null sector and overwatch

[tranquil orbit]

Remember the old ones w reaper and widow

[tranquil orbit]

Thats the main story plot they were exploring in the pve

[hushed jetty]

primarily yes

[tranquil orbit]

But i suspect now thats collapsed in on itself we'll see a return to the more anthology story telling we saw in 2015-19

Branching stories that exist more independently of each other

[hushed jetty]

but talon is still most certainly in the picture and is planning something

[tranquil orbit]

And sometimes cross over

So never write off anyone

[patent trench]

that magua short was something

[hushed jetty]

see how they stole a power core or whatever from null sector and apparently doomfist is looking for an "artifact"

[tranquil orbit]

We also know he hatched a deal w ram wayyy back

As for the terms we have no clue

But the last scene of the pve was widow and sombra being sent to capture zen

Theres also some minor details of what wouldve happened next but idk if theyll continue it

Because no doubt theyll have different writers now w the turnover who might wanna make different choices

[patent trench]

doesn’t ram know talon shot montanna (cant spell name)
unless that’s what he wanted in the first place to stop more of human and omnic unity

[tranquil orbit]

Ram has literal propaganda of dead mondatta for null sector

Lemme find the pic

[patent trench]

ik ive seen it

[tranquil orbit]

It's rough because ram had a lot of respect for mondatta despite their differences

However imo his death did v much benefit the cause

[hushed jetty]

mondatta 😭

[tranquil orbit]

Martyrdom

[patent trench]

man i wish pve was still in development

[tranquil orbit]

U observe the popularity spike trump had and he didnt even get assassinated properly

[hushed jetty]

LMAO?

[tranquil orbit]

It has massive impact in riling ppl up

[tranquil orbit]

IT'S FACTS 😭

All the maga lot are saying god stopped the bullet

[hushed jetty]

a lot of respect but i think at some point ramattra's anger towards mondatta sort of won over

in his short story he got so pissed he punched out a tv

[patent trench]

widow wouldn’t have missed

[tranquil orbit]

True however im not sure he ever REALLY wanted him dead

It's a magneto professor x situation

Literally

Carbon copy almost 💀

The more u think abt it

I forgot the exact details tho so i might be misremembering maybe he did swing so much out of anger

[patent trench]

if pve was still being developed
would have rammatra died? in the finale

[tranquil orbit]

We acc had a discussion abt this a long time ago

[patent trench]

like in ur guys opinion for where the story should go

[tranquil orbit]

Does ram deserve a redemption

Personally im of the belief that they mightve kept him alive/got him to surrender at great cost

And had him locked up

But he might prove a future resource

There was also some weird bogus leak that rein was gonna sacrifice himself to kill ram

Which i will say charging him off a cliff wouldve been something

[patent trench]

yeah i was gonna mentions reins death

[patent trench]

how every ram vs rein charge goes

[tranquil orbit]

But idk

I think ram's such an interesting character that killing him off mightve been a waste (depending on what they acc did w him during the story)

But i think ram being limited to just a big boss is a big waste