lore-discussion

[keen summit]

And if runesapi has no new lore she will be sigma 2, very cool concept, alot of potential for story but not used

[crimson dawn]

Pretty sure someone in blizzard confirmed she’s in the power level as sigma or doomfist

Don’t want to start a Power scaling debate now though

[keen summit]

Who?

[crimson dawn]

On twitter, I’ll find it

[keen summit]

Cuz frpm what i know thats never said, and doom isnt even the strongest nor do we know if sigma is

The strongest ones are winston and orisa from confirmed things

[crimson dawn]

Sigma and doom are still pretty strong

[crimson dawn]

Also

[keen summit]

Sigma we really dont know

[keen summit]

Yeah i know

But im just saying that its highly unlikely

Cuz saying shes as strong as sigma is the biggest null statement

If sigma lw and illari had unlimited well limits theyd litterally be able to create a new workd

[keen summit]

Someone in ows claimsd "illari was stated to be on sigma level by blizzard" which i found very unlikely as yknow, sigma level means nothin

[peak escarp]

if they mean that both Illari and Sigma's powers are undefined and both potentially very powerful, then yes

she is on Sigma's level

we don't know whether the explosion was her own innate power overloading, or if it was the solar threading ritual loading her with more power than she could handle

[zenith mango]

Sig is the strongest theoretically right

[peak escarp]

him or Symmetra or Lifeweaver

[golden oak]

I’m so tired of this debate

This is like “5v5 or 6v6” but for lore

They promised some lore bits but I wouldn’t count on too much

I’m assuming we’ll get roughly the same amount of lore as we got from Samoa for mauga

Or even less Because control is 3 maps, and push is just 1 map which is mirrored so actually like 1/2 of a map

This is why imo escort/hybrid maps will always be superior because they’re not mirrored
Clash, push and control have to be mirrored due to balance reasons
(Flashpoint also isn’t mirrored but that mode is awful so I didn’t mention it)

[hushed jetty]

samoa didnt even give us much lore, mostly just the existence of super coral and the fact he lives there

oh and the polynesian league existing i suppose

[peak escarp]

it was bigger lore for worldbuilding than for Mauga

although we did learn he's a big fan of Zarya

Runasapi will probably be similar - tidbits on Illari and a bigger bite of worldbuilding lore

[wooden sleet]

I miss numbani destroyed airport

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf the last push map esperanca had some of the best lore bits in a while

All the stuff u can find abt the martins couple

[dreamy shoal]

So are baptiste and mauga ex boyfriends or no? It would make sense as to why mauga is so obsessed with bap

[half pelican]

theyre written like it but so far unconfirmed

[hushed jetty]

yea ^

the author of wylb wrote them as though they were exes so its implied but not canon yet

i wouldnt be surprised if they said something about it for pride this year

[reef hamlet]

idk if announcing an abusive gay relationship would go down well tbh lol

if we do get one a short story or comic of baptiste in talon then leaving would b cool

[peak escarp]

that's basically what Baptiste got when he was added back in 2019

[hushed jetty]

frankly if it was just abusive and nothing else then i dont think baptiste would talk to mauga the way he does

clearly they had SOME kind of connection even if it wasnt romantic

[reef hamlet]

ahh i dont think i was playing when that dropped

[peak escarp]

it's one of the better short stories

[hushed jetty]

what you left behind is so good

[peak escarp]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/stories/what-you-left-behind/

[hushed jetty]

it will never leave my thoughts

[reef hamlet]

idk whether its romantic or not but sombra does tell mauga he's "bad for him in every way that counts"

[hushed jetty]

she's not wrong about that, mauga is very much a bad person who has a bad influence on people, including baptiste

he kinda has this aura that makes people around him more willing to be violent, sorta

baptiste says something abt it in the story but i forgor

[reef hamlet]

tbh mauga calls baptiste buddy here and there so im kinda thinking they were just close friends

[hushed jetty]

mauga is just kinda like that i figure
he gives people stupid nicknames

like, he calls widow "spider"

[peak escarp]

I don't really see the obsession/exes thing everyone else seems to see

even if it is written that way

[hushed jetty]

i think i like it less if theyre literal exes and more if they just have that sort of vibe and tension

mauga is a manliker though i suspect

[hushed jetty]

i think its sort of the way mauga and baptiste seem to have a real, genuine connection that mauga just does not have with anyone else, either because he doesnt care enough or just because they dont like him that much

[reef hamlet]

yeah but i dont think he calls anyone else buddy, everyone has their own nickname from him

[hushed jetty]

one of his hello voicelines is "hey, buddy" so i wouldnt be shocked if he just calls a bunch of people buddy

[reef hamlet]

yeah fair but tbh thats to no one in particular but whenever he kills/ cages/ revives bap he always calls him buddy

[hushed jetty]

true

personally i think itd be funny as hell if it was revealed they Did date and mauga STILL called him buddy WHILE they were dating

[reef hamlet]

that would be fairly in character lmao

[hushed jetty]

for real

[reef hamlet]

tbh i dont see mauga having an interest in anyone

his personality and voicelines just dont lend itself to a romantic kind of arc for him

of course theres room for it to be fleshed out especially in his relationship with bap but i just dont see it

[hushed jetty]

i think perhaps he's be the type to have small crushes maybe but he doesnt care enough about most people to have it be more serious

i like to imagine he has a crush on people like zarya and mercy. mostly bc its funny to me

[reef hamlet]

i just think he sees them people as fun

he respects the hell out of zarya and takes the piss out of mercy (and almost everyone else)

[hushed jetty]

true true true as well

[spare fox]

honestly I kind of like them as exes of some sort because of the interesting dynamic it brings to the roster

we've got parents, siblings, mentors-mentees, adding exes creates a new dramatic dynamic between characters

fans always speculated it between Reaper and Soldier for whatever reason, obviously that didnt turn out to be true

[tranquil orbit]

im not sure if theyd be official exes because im not sure how well them being in a proper relationship wouldve been seen by the talon hierarchy (i assume)

not to say that there isnt a bit of romantic flavour to the tension

i just think it's unlikely the two were ever "dating" in the conventional romantic way

maybe it's just me being short sighted but i cant imagine that going on in the context and mental space the two were in at the time

something a bit more like situationship maybe where the lines were a bit more blurred is what my guess is

[hushed jetty]

i also imagine it that way

[merry token]

I love toxic situationships!!!

[hushed jetty]

AMENNNN

[winged glade]

💀

[sterile parcel]

my penis smells like fish

[sleek dirge]

please don't speak again.

[cloud violet]

life without parole

[spare fox]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[sterile parcel]

my penis smells like fish

[keen summit]

I mean its true tho, not really a debate, theoretically he's the strongest, if he has 0 limits he would be, but we dont know

[keen summit]

Welll its not like talon is ever shown to be against relationships

[peak escarp]

I doubt Talon cares

[hushed jetty]

mauga being in a relationship is probably not even in the top ten of issues talon has with him lmfao

[keen summit]

Yeah exactly

Itd be too kuch to deal with every potential relationship

[sterile vigil]

heool

[tranquil orbit]

In most military organisations it's seen as unprofessional to be in a relationship w other members esp if they're a different role/rank

Attitudes on this changed recently in the west but i think in the case of talon who run under doomfists philosophy

I can see it being an issue

Granted he does kinda let mauga do whatever but if baptiste was involved theyd probably need to keep it on the down low

Which is why i think it not being an official relationship but more of a situationship is more plausible

In the case of having a relationship w a medic like baptiste it can be called into question because it opens the possibility of preferential treatment and also limits the doctor's ability to make hard decisions

[keen summit]

Yes, most of the time, however i wouldnt be surprised if they legit didnt care

[tranquil orbit]

idk i guess it's not rly confirmed either way so it's up to us to guess

but i feel like w doomfist's philosophy he values professionalism and this kind of thing (mauga being a massive exception but baptiste not so much)

[cerulean goblet]

guys i personally think tracer copied me and im in the lore

and the reason she died is cuz i think fasted her

so

[keen summit]

Thing is, from eachother one can also grow stronfer

[tranquil orbit]

im thinking of it more from the perspective of like

if a combat medic needs to do something rly harsh like a messy amputation or something potentially even worse for survival

a relationship introduces complications in that decision that i think doomfist definitely wouldnt like

[keen summit]

But it means they need to improve

Which is what he wants

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh im not sure if that reasoning follows 💀

Idt u can just allow for serious liabilities in an operation just because "oh tbey might improve"

Doomfist does care abt these kinds of details

[peak escarp]

Talon isn't a military organization though

it's a terrorist organization

[tranquil orbit]

True however i think it's fair to say they run themselves in a militaristic fashion

They have a uniform and council and everything

[peak escarp]

I still don't think they care much for interpersonal relationships

they have a complete lack of discipline

[tranquil orbit]

I disagree as per what doomfists agenda is

Even if it wasnt explicitly forbidden idt baptiste would be comfortable being in a confirmed/open relationship w another member because of the environment that theyre in

A more secret or ambiguous one maybe but i just cant see it in the traditional sense

[vapid estuary]

GUYS I THINK THE ZEN LEADER GOT KILLED 😮

[twilit patrol]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[cerulean goblet]

shitposting

crazy

[prisma lotus]

I was rewatching the animated short "Alive" and I saw a girl in the crowd watching Mondatta pressed up against another omnic as if they were in a relationship, is that true?

[hushed jetty]

yeah

[spare fox]

Yeah kind of odd how we haven't seen any heroes in an omnic-human relationship at some point

Maybe we'll get one in the future

[peak escarp]

D.Va does think BOB is cute

[spare fox]

So wholesome

[burnt fable]

Is Winton gay

[sterile parcel]

guys my penis smells like fish

[burnt fable]

Straight Jorkin it

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[burnt fable]

😦

[spare fox]

That's at least the second time they've been warned for making the exact same comment

[past copper]

If they didn’t get it the first time just get a mod to kick them

[pseudo sage]

Do you think wrecking ball has a crush on Winston?

[peak escarp]

no

[white jetty]

If OW2 didn't force a villain role so hard with it's failed PVE than Ramattra would have been so much better, with good writing Null Sector would have been really interesting. Up until the random attack on King's Row (which Null Sector had no storytelling reason to do) they could have been a consistent anti-villain force with questionable morals but they just had to make them villains. Even with them working side by side with talon it could have still been good writing without just slapping villain on them. In all honesty I see them as a possible force for good within the universe but they just did what every terrible X-Men comic did before with their equivalent role of Magneto. Both of them are anti-villains which stand for the rights of their people, and when actually good writers get their hands on them they stand as a great allegories, however when the business people with no writing skills get their hands on them they become stand-in villains because it costs less money and time to make compelling characters. I could go more in depth but it's just sad to see. And no I'm not at all biased towards liking Ramattra why do you ask

[rare trail]

"the random attack on King's Row (which Null Sector had no storytelling reason to do)" have you read ramattras short story

[past copper]

You clearly don’t follow the lore if you think the attack on King’s Row was random and had no story telling reason to do

[rare trail]

he explains his reasoning in the short story

i respect your opinion of disliking ramattra and null sectors motivations but like the kings row attack was not random

[past copper]

The attack on King’s Row was more than warranted really

Just read Tracer’s comics London Calling

[rare trail]

i mean idk about warranted but it does align with ram's worldview

[past copper]

It was warranted. I get not being able to forget what happened in a global war

But that’s no excuse to treat people as if they’re lives were meaningless

[rare trail]

its not like everyone in kings row victimized omnics

hundreds of innocent people were killed

[past copper]

And yet the old saying goes. Violence breeds violence

[hushed jetty]

king's row happened because omnics in london were being treated like second class citizens. or barely even citizens at all

[rare trail]

“During this uprising, we will show the humans we are stronger than they thought. We establish a stronghold in
one of their cruelest cities, and we make a safe place for our people. We will show omnics everywhere that now
is the time to join us. That is the goal.”

[past copper]

Citizens and authorities alike mistreated omnics well after the war and Null Sector responded in kind

[hushed jetty]

null sector needed a place to try and make themselves known and london was a great place to start

[past copper]

Honestly, while I can’t condone Ramattra’s actions, I can’t say they’re unprovoked

[rare trail]

his actions being provoked dont make them warranted imo

[past copper]

Omnics want to be treated as equals. Not pieces of junk that you can just abuse and throw away

[white jetty]

I FORGOT

SORRY

ITS BEEN SO LONG

[hushed jetty]

💀

[white jetty]

AHGH fake fan

[hushed jetty]

nw man the lore gets complicated

[past copper]

Well, when people refuse to listen to reason and only add more fuel to the fire, sooner or later, they’re going to get burned

[rare trail]

its not like everyone in kings row hated omnics or mistreated them

[white jetty]

Ong, i cant believe i forgot the specific geopolitics of a certain location in this fictional game. Shame on me

[hushed jetty]

well kings row was certainly not omnic friendly

have you Seen all yhe graffiti

[past copper]

No. But places of business and authorities certainly abused and mistreated them heavily

[rare trail]

hundreds of innocents were caught in the crossfire

[hushed jetty]

plus ramattra just doesnt really believe that peace and whatnot will get them anywhere. he believed this so much in fact that he started to dislike mondatta for it

[white jetty]

Yea i think blastin em with giant bots isnt the best way to free the people revolutionary action was defo warranted and their was inevitable and fair fatalities that coulddd have happened but

[peak escarp]

he thought Mondatta would take his side

instead of betraying him

[white jetty]

Honestly if your revolution is decided by hands-on-ground mindless bots who just target every living thing in sight then i gotta condone that

[past copper]

And so were many countless others in wars long before the Omnics Crisis or Null Sector

[rare trail]

ok?

[past copper]

Yet people slowly grew to forgive and forget

[hushed jetty]

frankly i just wonder if ramattra realizes that he is Literally anubis 2

i think nameless called him out on this in ram's short story but its only become More intense of a comparison with time, especially with the subjugation stuff

[past copper]

But after the war, a majority of humans, instead of acknowledging omnics for what they were now, went straight back to using them as if they were nothing

[rare trail]

overall ramattra has probably caused more omnic hate that hes stopped

like people seeing null sector on the news killing innocent people is definitely gonna like cause more hate

[white jetty]

revolution to help the omnics is good, but he played it like a war and put all humans on the other side which yknow isnt gonna work or ever be an ethical conclusion.

[past copper]

Ramattra’s the classic “blinded by his own ambitions” type of character

[white jetty]

Ya, good ambitions with terrible execution

[past copper]

He thinks his actions are the right way to go about omnics being treated as equals, but refuses to acknowledge the consequences of his actions

And there will be repercussions that negatively impact omnics whether he succeeds or fails

But like I said, violence breeds violence. A large percentage of humans treat omnics with disrespect, hatred, and violence

Ramattra is simply returning the favor for his people while trying to save his people

It’s sad, but that’s typically how the world goes

[cerulean goblet]

he world could always use more heroes.
Overwatch takes place on a near-future Earth, some time in the mid 2070s.[5] Some thirty years before, robots turned against humanity in what became known as the Omnic Crisis. This eventually led to the formation of an elite strike team, who finally brought an end to the war. This team was the beginning of Overwatch, an international task force which tried to maintain global stability for two decades, until corruption tore it apart. Though Overwatch was disbanded, new crises are looming, and the world still needs heroes.

Overwatch's story is revealed through supplementary material, such as cinematic shorts, comics, and news articles. Interactions between characters and certain details on maps also help flesh out the setting and its inhabitants. Eventually, Overwatch's lore is planned to be on par with Diablo, StarCraft, and Warcraft.[6]\

there you go knuckleheads

[tranquil orbit]

Seemingly though the big problem w ram is not only that he kills humans indiscriminately but also in the most recent pve missions he's putting these headset things on omnics to seemingly pacify them/take away their agency

And no matter how much he personally thinks his ideals are correct if he sticks to them in such extreme ways to thr point he will endanger ppl he's allegedly seeking to protect he will always be presented through a more villainous lens (think magneto)

[reef hamlet]

ramattras ideology is literally that meme of "he a little confused but he got the spirit"

wanting equal rights for omnics is a good thing to want but forcing and/or indoctrinating people into your cause isnt the way to do it

[tranquil orbit]

Yh exactly

Tbh it's acc fairly well written assuming this is what they were going for because a lot of ideologues eventually go down this path irl

Dictators and the like

Whilst still having the charisma/attractive personality

[golden oak]

Wait a damn minute
Soldier 76, soldier 24
76 + 24 = 100

[peak escarp]

and?

[golden oak]

Together they were 100% 😔

[reef hamlet]

never thought of that tbh

nice little easter egg if intentional

[opaque tundra]

Speaking of Ramattra, I would love to see a bumpy Zuko-esque redemption arc for him, one where we tries and fails to do better and ultimately finds some sort of inner peace, despite the consequences of his actions forever haunting him

There are already some seeds, both in his short story and aspects of his personality

We’ve seen with Symmetra and Torbjorn that characters arcs are a thing that can happen and something like that for Ram would be really fun to see

[sharp trench]

You don't exactly go from hating humanity and starting an entire new potentially planetary war in multiple capital cities in retaliation for the oppression of your people to redeeming yourself and siding with those that continuously oppressed your peoples

[tranquil orbit]

i kinda agree in that idt it's ever gonna be full on like torb's

but something magneto esque is possible

potentially turns himself in

[opaque tundra]

I don’t think he’ll ever forgive humanity. I’m thinking his character arc could go more down a path of finding some sort of companionship, or at least just have some people that want to side with him, because it’s made clear that Ramattra is alone and isolated and one of the core themes of Overwatch is that of unity and standing together and stuff

[tranquil orbit]

im sure zen still has that brotherly connection w him

for all their disagreements rn

and tbh he could be the key to convincing ram to stop

or at least trying to

[opaque tundra]

There’s absolutely gonna be Zen intervention, but I’m talking about after. Like is Zen gonna stay with Ramattra after whatever happens after the plot? Is Zen really just his mental instability cure?

[tranquil orbit]

nah tbh thatd be boring

tbh i think itd be boring even if it was as simple as zen tries talking him out of it

there has to be something a bit more to it than that

[sharp trench]

he's a war criminal so if anything he'd probably be tried and executed

[tranquil orbit]

but i can see ram turning himself in down the line

idt theyd execute him as part of that arrangement though

[opaque tundra]

Man you guys really want Overwatch to be realistic

[tranquil orbit]

although it depends im not sure if overwatch get any say

because theyre also technically criminals atm

[sharp trench]

overwatch wouldn't, but the united nations would

there would probably be a geneva convention for ram and whoever else is helping with the revolution

[tranquil orbit]

overwatch used to hold these kinds of criminals at a place called watchpoint grimstvon

doomfist was held there

atm i think it's not an option anymore but it's interesting to think abt

[opaque tundra]

Im just saying that there’s narrative potential for Ramattra to go through a character arc instead of throwing him in jail and never appearing again

[tranquil orbit]

nah he could still appear quite a lot

magneto is a v good example of this

someone who never truly compromised his ideals and they never erased what he did during his villainous positions

but he's still someone who fts significantly in the story in a more toned down fashion as his own form of redemption

because ultimately ram's objective isnt wrong but his actions were

[sharp trench]

his actions are too far bad to be anything redeemable in the eyes of anyone but a hardcore sympathizer with

[tranquil orbit]

and theres only so much u can do when these are actions of a full on war criminal

yh i agree

[opaque tundra]

😔damn alright

[tranquil orbit]

it's possible we see him differently in the story down the line though

but i think what we might consider a full on redemption arc is disingenuous to all the other suffering he caused

for both humans AND omnics btw

[opaque tundra]

I’m not saying he will be a 100% good guy after a redemption arc. I’m talking about despite everyone hating him and feeling guilt over his actions he still finds inner peace. Like a bittersweet narratively impactful conclusion for his character.

But I guess things need to be realistic so Nevermind

[tranquil orbit]

nah it's not so much abt being realistic but more so rewarding

guilt is one thing but inner peace is a better ending than most of the existing characters have rn 😭

[peak escarp]

redemption isn't the endpoint of Ramattra's character arc

[tranquil orbit]

like u need to EARN inner peace and that doesnt happen by making ppl feel sorry for the war criminal

thats a journey in and of itself

[peak escarp]

the only heroes that are on the path towards redemption are Cassidy and Hanzo

[opaque tundra]

Yes I want that journey to happen

[peak escarp]

and Cassidy is most of the way there already

[tranquil orbit]

that journey would involve punishment

[opaque tundra]

Yes it would and it doesn’t need to be jail limbo

[tranquil orbit]

im open to other options because i agree it doesnt necessarily need to be imprisonment

but the alternative of just letting him be free in the shambali monastery area isnt rly viable i dont think 😭

thats what he was doing before

[tranquil orbit]

also baptiste

they havent rly addressed it much yet

but eventually the rest of the overwatch team will need to come to terms w the fact he was part of talon

[peak escarp]

right

Baptiste is most of the way there too

[tranquil orbit]

and i cant wait for that story line to come to the front

[peak escarp]

but the fact that his involvement with Talon is redacted in the files makes me think there might be a confrontation with the OW team

[tranquil orbit]

yeppp

same

[peak escarp]

and he has to earn their trust

[tranquil orbit]

so excited to see it happen

esp w pharah because the 2 of them have an established kind of "trust"

like how that will change upon the knowledge

it's gonna be so good for both of their characters to see that unfold

[fast cipher]

Does anyone know why I can’t buy the gold gun variants I have enough points but the unlock button is greyed out

[past copper]

Wrong place

[golden oak]

I think Sombra is gonna leave talon sooner or later

When they’re no longer use for her

[peak escarp]

probably

[peak escarp]

I wouldn't call that redemption though

[vital steppe]

sombra isn’t necessarily evil either, so could she even get a redemption ? she’s entirely self serving and focuses on her own goals, even whilst with talon

[acoustic ice]

is there a list of all the code names for the heroes?

curious since sparkplug is brigitte’s codename

[tranquil orbit]

We still need to work out more abt sombra ngl

I rly wanna know more abt what her limits are like if she had the opportunity to sell someone out like sigma to get something she wants

Would she do it?

These kinds of qs i kinda want answered

I also believe in the theory that doomfist knows more abt her actions than he lets on and might be playing the long game

[acoustic ice]

i think she’d sell out doom, moira or maximillien

[tranquil orbit]

Those are boring cases tho imo

Im talkint abt ppl shes allegedly close to / seems to care to a certain level

To rly know how far her self serving interests will go

It's not rly a big effort to sell someone out that you're already not super close with if yk what i mean

[peak escarp]

Sparkplug isn't Brigitte's codename

it's a nickname her dad calls her

[acoustic ice]

wait i thought it was

well thanks for clarifying that

either way what are the codenames

[peak escarp]

you can see them in the hero gallery

[tranquil orbit]

Do the new bloods even rly have callsigns because they havent been part of an official organisation

Apart from pharah/fareeha

[peak escarp]

D.Va

[tranquil orbit]

Lucio brig baptiste for example all use shortened versions of their regular names

Dva and zarya were part of military though

So i dont rly count them either

[peak escarp]

D.Va is still her codename

[tranquil orbit]

Altho even zarya is a shortened version of her full name though

[peak escarp]

her real name is Hana Song

[tranquil orbit]

Yhyh

[acoustic ice]

i can’t decide whether doomfists’s outnumbered voicelines indicate he’s enjoying the challenge or enjoying the conflict

[spare fox]

Both would be most likely

[acoustic ice]

also if normal sombra is secretly good, does that mean mirrorwatch sombra is secretly evil

[hushed jetty]

i wouldnt call normal sombra "secretly good" but i suppose its possible that mirror somb is actually feeding info to some bad people

[acoustic ice]

Then he would be german

[past cairn]

REINHARDT MY BELOVED

[desert yacht]

there’s a lot of ways to mirror a character sombra in reg ow is a chaotic character and achieves her goals good or bad through whatever means

I can see her mirror just being a lawful version of her

[viral tendon]

I think most versions of sombra are chaotic neutral, becuase she clearly has (some) morals and has empathy for others (sigma for example) but also does work for a terrorist organisation

[crimson dawn]

If only we had any sort of idea what her motives are

[viral tendon]

There needs to be Atleast a comic on either her (extended) backstory or just explain why she acts the way she does since blizzard fucked us over missions wise

[desert yacht]

I can see mirrorwatch sombra being lawful good/neutral

[placid pollen]

Who’s side is venture on?

Or does she have her own motives

[golden oak]

Against talon

And they know Ana I think

Officially no side but if they were to take a side it would probably be overwatch

[rare trail]

venture is mad at talon for like raiding historical sites and stealing artifacts

i agree with leosenpai they would probably take overwatch's side

[peak escarp]

they are allied with the Wayfinder Society, which is the archeologist group that is excavating Petra, Illios and Ayutthaya

we don't know much else about the Wayfinder Society

also Venture's pronouns are they/them

[spare fox]

So something I noticed, but it's Probably Nothing™️ about the ancient cities being excavated:
Petra - rock
Illios - the sun (fire)
And then there's Ayuthattya, which is a city known for being an island where 3 rivers meet (water)

Now we just need an air temple map amirite

[peak escarp]

well the Shambali Temple is high up in the mountains...

[flint sage]

Venture is the Avatar confirmed /silly

[spare fox]

And it is where Aurora ascended

[gleaming iris]

What if the Mexican is actually a Russian espy😮

[peak escarp]

who?

[viral tendon]

aurora is the avatar of all omnics

[spare fox]

Wouldn't she be frozen in ice then?
Oh wait! Mei the avatar! lol

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting @silk bay

[twilit nacelle]

@silk bay Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[noble ice]

Hey, so I just found out that Soldier met Sombra, does anyone know what the context behind it?

[golden oak]

It’s in heroes ascendant, sadly I haven’t read that yet

And hasn’t been published online yet pretty sure

[noble ice]

Oh dang, look like I'm going to have to visit Barnes and Noble then

[grand wedge]

You want spoilers?

[noble ice]

Sure!

[grand wedge]

|| An informant has been feeding 76 with intel about Talon for a while. He didn't know it was Sombra (clueless Jack, lol), but the last intel was solid (it was a hit list on former OW agents)
Ana decide to follow the list, but not Jack. He goes met Sombra in a facility where some old stuff from the ruins of the HQ was. She asks him to retrieve something that doesn't belong here. Jack found a "flat disk size and shape of a mine. The casing was matte black, felt almost rubbery and heavy for its size" and when Sombra scans it, it shows the eye symbol of her conspiracy map. She tells jack to follow this symbol if he wants the truth about the fall of OW, and suggest he start searching at Oasis ||

[grand wedge]

⬆️

[noble ice]

That cool! Thank you!

[crimson dawn]

What are illari’s abilities supposed to be?

[peak escarp]

she channels sunlight into healing and to charge her weapon

[crimson dawn]

Is she powerless at night

[ruby ridge]

ILLARIIIII

I mean

MOIRA CAMEO

OASIS

[ruby ridge]

we don’t know

We just know she orphaned herself

[rare trail]

we dont know that

she only killed the warriors

the rest of the inti are still alive

its never said whether her parents were warriors or if they were killed in the explosion

[dreamy shoal]

Is reinhardt his actual name? Idk maybe its cuz I have 0 German blood in me but is that normal? Mercy is German but her real name is Angela so idk. Like why couldn't reinhardt just be a callsign and his actual name be something basic like Tobias or John idk

[tranquil orbit]

Iirc reinhardt is a more old fashioned german name

More common as a surname

And ironically wilhelm is probably more common as a first name since it's germanic william

I think the name was more aesthetic though because it fits his persona as a crusader knight figure

[peak escarp]

his full name is Reinhardt Wilhelm

[opaque phoenix]

So why does junkrat want to join talon? I heard multiple voice lines of him either saying he doesn't want to mess this up for talon and saying he could be a labrat for experiments for Moira but is there any actual reason he wants to join?

[tranquil orbit]

idt it's confirmed canonically

i do back the labrat moira theory though as something that could happen down the line

[peak escarp]

Moira just likes experimenting on people

[opaque phoenix]

Talon junkrat skin would be crazy

[tranquil orbit]

Something tells me he's gonna end up saying goodbye to a few more teeth

Or maybe moira regenerates them

But something abt junkrat w a colgate smile is v terrifying

[prisma lotus]

what happened to australia because junkrat and roadhog scare me

[mild orbit]

how do the people in overwatch get their nicknames

[mild orbit]

there was a big kaboom and it turned into a wasteland

[rare trail]

wdym

[mild orbit]

like why is tracer called tracer

where does that nickname come from

[rare trail]

the french traceur means parkour so it could be from that

a lot of them its a callsign or just their name

most characters names are just their names

22/18 name vs something else

[hushed jetty]

i always forget pharah isn't her name for some reason

[peak escarp]

a tracer is a type of bullet that is easily seen so gunners can tell where they're shooting

fun fact: Ashe, Cassidy and Zarya are the three heroes who use their last name as their hero name - the rest use their first name

[rare trail]

whats ashes first name?

[tranquil orbit]

elizabeth right?

[rare trail]

that sounds right

[peak escarp]

her full name is Elizabeth Caledonia Ashe

[viral tendon]

isnt just dependant on if theirs more talon agents or ow agents in a game (loading in) he'll mention joining either with enthusiasm (i think? ive heard both but i cant remeber the context)

[spare fox]

Oh yeah! I have heard him say trying to impress overwatch with multiple ow heroes on the team

[viral tendon]

idk where to find voicelines on the wiki so idk where to looks to confirm !

[spare fox]

And an OW kill line, "overwatch? You'll never take me alive!" and he says it for Ana and S76 even though they're no longer in OW

[viral tendon]

does junkrat have a mental disorder? like schizophenia?

[spare fox]

There are a lot of videos on YouTube and X that have voicelines recorded

[viral tendon]

ok! ill have a look

[spare fox]

Nothing confirmed but probably at least ADHD

[viral tendon]

since hes said to have or atelast he himself mentions he has a PhD or something meaning hes really smart but he also seems to act insane 90% of the time

[tranquil orbit]

i think theyve acc described him as insane before

altho i find thats always a bit of a catch all term when u dont rly wanna get into the details

his brain's definitely cooked by the radiation though thats for sure

[spare fox]

Yeah "insane" isn't a medical diagnosis

[tranquil orbit]

if u want something concrete his pyromania is pretty confirmed

[viral tendon]

oh no i wasnt saying it was a medical diagnosis it was just a describing word

[spare fox]

Oh well yeah he's crazy

[viral tendon]

he also mentions rubbing dirt (radioactive dirt) on injuries before like in the voiceline with mercy

[tranquil orbit]

say what u want abt the guy but his natural resistance to be able to withstand basically everything is insane

maybe not without side effects but he's acc a cockroach u could put him in an oven and he'd find a way to survive

[viral tendon]

he was most likely a teen when junker town was established so hes had a good decade to resist the radiation

[tranquil orbit]

idt thats how radiation works ngl 😭

[viral tendon]

yeah irl inconsistency ToT

[tranquil orbit]

nah im just saying that him in particular

radiation and constant explosives

the guy's built different

[viral tendon]

probaly eats radioactive food for fun

[tranquil orbit]

imagine bringing a geiger counter 😭 what a day

[peak escarp]

Junkertown was established around 20-25 years ago, Junkrat is 27 years old

so he was a young child when the omnium was detonated

Junkrat's appearance in The Wastelander is slightly anachronistic

he should be younger there

[worthy rose]

@gloomy agate can you add me please

[gloomy agate]

…

[worthy rose]

I cant send you messages

just add me

[peak escarp]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[viral tendon]

Wouldn’t he be like 22ish depending on the timeline?

[golden oak]

Isnt bastion just a nickname and real name would be E54

[vivid temple]

SST laboratories siege automoton... I love google

forgot the E54 at the end

[golden oak]

Yeah, I didn’t even attempt to spell it fully, so I short it to E54

[vivid temple]

ahh ok

[golden oak]

Would mirrorwatch cass be in deadlock Gang or talon

[vivid temple]

id say dead lock, his skin isnt giving me talon vibes

[golden oak]

I’d say there’s two possibilities
Either Ashe and Cass roles swapped (so Ashe betrayed deadlock and joined overwatch and cass is mad at her)
Or Ashe stuck with her parents and never created the gang and that lead to Cassidy ending up in talon maybe

[vivid temple]

maybe

[turbid lintel]

i just realised hanzos dragon tattoo is a reference too him literally being a yakuza

[rare trail]

ehhh not really imo

e54 is like a model number more than like a serial number

like ramattras name isnt r-7000

[rare trail]

also unlike tracer pharah soldier or like widow bastion doesnt have like another name

[peak escarp]

The Wastelander takes place about 10 years before present, so Junkrat should be 17

[surreal skiff]

I'd say that Ashe joining Overwatch would be the more likely of the two. Ashe and McCassidy with swapped personalities and backgrounds sounds awesome to me.

[golden oak]

I think Ramattra got his name in shambali

Because it has that signature double t that shambali omnics have in their name

[golden oak]

Bastion was also an umbrella term for all similar units

Just like Idina could be or14 and or15

[reef hamlet]

i kinda think his outfit isnt very deadlock either

unless the mirrorwatch version of the deadlock gang is called longhorn instead

[peak escarp]

Longhorn isn't a mirrorwatch skin

every season has a few skins that don't match the theme

Scorpion Baptiste isn't either

[zenith mango]

Technically he would be 3 🤓

[peak escarp]

what

[zenith mango]

Isn’t he born on a leap day

[worthy rose]

OH YEAH

[peak escarp]

[zenith mango]

hehe

[peak escarp]

people born on leap years don't count their ages that way

[worthy rose]

Under governmental technicality he'd be three

[zenith mango]

I’m trying to be funny

Just humor me

[worthy rose]

Well simply technicality

[peak escarp]

unless they're in a Gilbert and Sullivan musical

[worthy rose]

But yeah, his body age at the time was 17

His mental age... questionable at all times

[zenith mango]

My favorite junk voice line “All better! -- well, y'know...”

[tranquil orbit]

"They're taking the objective! Time to blow it ... them up! I meant them!"

[gusty silo]

"Ahh, its snowing!!" -junk

[trim scroll]

"Think fast chucklenuts!" -spy

[past copper]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[dreamy shoal]

Its crazy how the only 3 American characters in the game is 2 cowboys (ashe being a cowgirl) and the typical soldier

[past copper]

Jack, Cole, Ashe, Gabriel are American

[smoky tendon]

yeah, get your facts straight, luxx

[dreamy shoal]

Sometimes I forget reaper is a human

I keep thinking he's just the grim reaper with the skeleton body and the scythe

But with 2 shotguns instead of a scythe

[celest needle]

@sour kite @coral forum what are ur thought on thi?

[peak escarp]

on the surface Soldier is a stereotypical American, but then you learn that he's gay

[dreamy shoal]

He doesn't act like the stereotypical gay man. As far as we know he doesn't have a high pitched voice, wears makeup, listens to nicki minaj, or wear dresses.

[peak escarp]

not all gay men are like that

look at Anderson Cooper

[hushed jetty]

anderson cooper is gay?????

[peak escarp]

yes

he's one of the most high profile gay men I can think of

he and his partner (now separated) had two sons via a surrogate

[ember wolf]

Fuck 🏳️‍🌈

[rare trail]

??

[desert valve]

Ok, can someone explain to me why Doomfist is Strike Commander in Mirrorwatch? Ngl, I thought it would be post reaper, gabe guy?

[desert valve]

also, I'm working on an ow animation so is there anyone who knows the lore that can chat or give critiques as i make progress, I just have questions (no need for u do art or anything )

[spare fox]

Ask them here and we'll do our best to verify

[desert valve]

I don't think I can sent images here though?

or videos?

[spare fox]

Nope, just links but if you describe it we will figure it out

[desert valve]

ok, im quickly making a powerpoint or something with questions for each scene

[past copper]

Depends on where you’re putting it in lore since the lore of Overwatch has a few years of it

Best thing to use for info is…

Unless you’re in need of specific info

[desert valve]

That's true, however i don't have the book... and the animatic idea I have is related to mirror verse so its very hypothetical? Kinda want a more, " Would this make sense? Or is my delusional mind taking this too far?" so a very like collaborative critique thing

[past copper]

I mean, all I can say to that is that while Overwatch was shut down after years of illegal activity around the world and questionable membership of certain agents

The Overwatch in the mirrorverse did not have this issue. More than likely being open and clear with the public and UN about their activities thus never getting shutdown

All the while, Talon is acting on their terrorist activities. While they expanded on this when Overwatch was shutdown, the one in the mirrorverse had to deal with Overwatch getting in their way for years

[desert valve]

ah, crap ok that makes sense and totally ruins my plan LMAO. I wanted to make an animatic on what Reaper and Soldier 76 will be in the mirrorverse so gonna make the mirror verse verison of the downfall at Switzerland and how that connects with mirror verse mercy or something? But now, im not sure...

ngl, i didn't think mirror verse overwatch would be this complicated just thought it'll be a swap like vigilante reaper and talon soldier 76

[past copper]

Well, what ruins that idea regardless is that Jack and Gabriel clearly weren’t in Overwatch if the original core team wasn’t

[hushed jetty]

ye they went a more interesting direction frankly

[past copper]

Hell, we don’t even know where Jack, Gabriel, Junkrat, Roadhog, or even Bastion, Torbjörn, or Orisa stand in Mirrorwatch

[hushed jetty]

bastion is gwishin presumably

[desert valve]

right AAAAAAAAAAAAA i already spend so much time on drawing, ok i guess what im making it not related to mirror verse at all then fuck

[hushed jetty]

based on the fact htat skin is used in the game mode

[past copper]

Eh. I think they just used Gwishin because they didn’t really think much on Bastion in an alternate universe

[desert valve]

ghost?

[past copper]

All I can think of there is that Torbjörn is in Talon, found a living Bastion, and made it into a weapon for Talon

[hushed jetty]

i personally headcanon bastion wandered into the korean ocean and the gwishin took an interest in him

[past copper]

Remember. Bastion is more than a weapon upon living in nature then later being found and taken in by Torb to become a hero

[peak escarp]

the gwishin are the squid-like omnics that D.Va and the MEKA squad are fighting against

their omnium is underwater in the east china sea

[past copper]

But in a mirror reality, they would be made into a weapon if Bastion ignored the bird and wandered into the city, caused chaos, then was captured by Talon and upgraded

[desert valve]

ohhhhh, so thats why the korean word of ghost is in there

[past copper]

Also, Orisa. Hmm. That’s a tough one

All I can think of is that Efi rebuilt Orisa to be a killing machine instead of being a hero

Would that involve Doomfist in some way? Probably. I just don’t know how

Unless the OR-14s were restored, but instead of built to be security, they were turned into killing machines that attacked the city 🤷‍♂️

Although, just putting this out there, would Numbani and Orisa even actually exist

Because think about this

The first Doomfist was a hero who fought off the omnics to protect his people. In memory of him, they built Numbani in his honor and for humans and omnics to come together

But in a mirror universe. He would not have been a savior when you think about it

[peak escarp]

maybe in the mirror universe he wasn't killed during the crisis - he was able to be a founding member of Overwatch and that's why the current Doomfist is strike commander

mirrorverse isn't a direct inversion of what's canon

[past copper]

I mean, if he were a villain, the second Doom could have been the successor to make up for the first’s actions and become a hero who trained Akande before he became strike commander 🤷‍♂️

Just going by guess work. The Omnic Crisis may have changed drastically in Mirrorwatch

[peak escarp]

or maybe the second Doom was also good, and the Doomfist title has always gone to heroes

[past copper]

That’s what I meant. Like the first Doom was a criminal, but the second Doom wanted to make up for the disgrace that was the first by becoming a hero who joined Overwatch

[peak escarp]

the first Doom doesn't have to be bad for the second Doom to be good

they could both be good

[past copper]

Who knows. The season is coming to an end regardless of speculation. Unless they bring Mirrorwatch back in another season, we might never know

[peak escarp]

mirrorverse isn't the opposite of canon - MW!Tracer started in Overwatch, same as canon, but she was left for dead by Overwatch and swore to get regenge on them for it

she's basically their version of Reaper

[past copper]

Well, maybe he was a hero, still turned down Overwatch, but his successor chose to join them instead

[dreamy shoal]

Doomfist is the leader of talon I'm pretty sure, and soldier 76 was the leader of og overwatch, so that's a switch up. One thing that doesn't make since is why is mercy the owner of talon when 76 was the leader of ow, not her. Probably just so blizzard can hurry and sell that mythic. Greedy ass bitches

Soldier would make for a better mythic this season cuz of mirrorwatch but oh well. It's weird he didn't even get a skin anyways cuz he's the og leader of ow.

[past copper]

IDK. Maybe Jack was the leader of Talon, but he and Gabriel got into a fight that “killed” them both and they both went their separate ways from Talon 🤷‍♂️

Gabriel became a vigilante while Jack… idk, is doing his own thing because maybe he wanted out of Talon?

[dreamy shoal]

Maybe gabe is the old vigilante and 76 turned into reaper

[desert valve]

wait does this mean my animatic is salvageable

COULD THIS BE

[peak escarp]

maybe they both died

[past copper]

I… don’t know how to answer that

[desert valve]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[dreamy shoal]

Got a link to it? I love supporting small yt channels!

[desert valve]

haven't made it yet but i can sent u some screen shots if u want?

[dreamy shoal]

Yes pls!

[past copper]

I like to think Gabriel became the vigilante, but I don’t know what could have become of Jack. Unless he really did die and Gabriel is the one who wanted out of Talon

If you work for an international terrorist organization, sooner or later, someone is bound to develop a conscience. Just look at Baptiste

[peak escarp]

unless you're genuinely a bad person

then you'll just enjoy making people suffer

[past copper]

Maybe, but still. Baptiste probably wouldn’t have left Talon, but Reaper could have

Either that, or he’s in Overwatch with Mauga

[dreamy shoal]

Do omnics rust?

[peak escarp]

we haven't seen them rust, so I assume they can't

even after Bastion crossed an ocean he seemed to be fine

[dreamy shoal]

also why is omnic racism a thing? Is it like the robot racism from Detroit become human where it's like "robots are gonna take our jobs I hate them" or is it like racial minority racism like "I don't like the way u look so I hate you"

[peak escarp]

it's more of a "I don't recognize you as a sentient person, you're still just an object/possession"

Declassified has a bit about the first person convicted of murdering an omnic - the person said "it's not like it's alive" or something similar

a lot of real world racism is rooted in the "I don't see you as an equal" ideology that colonialism spread around the world

[dreamy shoal]

But they are alive right? They talk and laugh and move around like humans do.

[peak escarp]

they are

[dreamy shoal]

They also like music too

[peak escarp]

they have "souls", whatever that means

[dreamy shoal]

I don't think souls are a thing. Birth and the human body is all science, so where we get our personality all depends on out parents and the world around us and how we interact with it.

But that might step into religion so imma shut up

[peak escarp]

well whatever it is that makes humans "people", omnics have it too

they are alive, they have emotions, they have independant thought

[keen summit]

Yes, but were built to serve

And not all of them are

Post awakening omnics arent sentient, post awakening robots arent either. Then bastion is weird cuz it seems like he mightve gotten the code basically during awakening but never woke up

Orisa and echo dont have it tho

[dreamy shoal]

Humans aren't built they're born.

[viral tendon]

He’s talking about omnics if it was humans he’s referring too he’d say ‘we’re’ (pronunciation wehere)yet he said ‘were’ (pronunciation: wer)

(The pronunciations may be wrong I have a accent it’s hard to tell sometimes)

[verbal cobalt]

Concept History:A robot with parts of Rein's friend's cadaver armor is caught and taken to Argentina, He's name:Dr. Ajex, he is taking to build an omnic capable of moving around the Sun and taking some of its energy, But when he was finishing, the null sector invaded the city to Kill Dr. Ajex, but at the time he was going to kill, ONSUNO woke up and He fought against Ramattra, winning against Ramattra and doing missions in other places such as Junkertown, Paraiso and Circuit Royal until he was summoned by Overwatch

[peak escarp]

sounds like too much

[verbal cobalt]

thanks?

[past copper]

Look, only humanoid omnics were given sentience from the Awakening because of a specific kind of tech implemented into them

The most common having this being the average subservient Omnic and the Ravager units

Bastions, OR-14’s, and spider tanks supposedly didn’t have this. Having been programmed to be mindless weapons

That said, Bastion is somehow the unknown sole exception to this. Having gained sentience while having been damaged upon being released in Germany

Regardless, it’s stated omnics and robots are different. Omnics were built different from average robots, whom probably have lesser programming then them at the time and now

[rare trail]

why does hammond speak in like third person

the ball isnt sentient right?

[golden oak]

Because his mech is translating for him

[tranquil orbit]

Yh it's translating from hamter speak

[rare trail]

but like

the mech could just translate it without saying "the hamster says"

[hushed jetty]

maybe the mech is just quirky

[past copper]

Hammond programmed his mech to specify that HE is speaking so that humans get the picture

After all… hamster noises - “THE HAMSTER SAYS, HUMAN BRAINS ARE SMALL TO HIS”

[reef hamlet]

probably just the way the ai is programmed

plus it gives both hammond and the ball a little bit more character definition

[rare trail]

what canon abilities does hammond have?

[tranquil orbit]

I mean he grappled w the cord to escape horizon so thats for sure

Tbh idt theres any reason why any of his abilities even if they aren't shown yet wouldnt be introduced later down the line

It's not like any of them are some canonical breaking stuff it's literally just shields and dropping mines 😭

[past copper]

His abilities were introduced in Heroes Ascendant

[tranquil orbit]

Ah thats good to know

He finally dropped a minefield?

[crimson dawn]

What abilities aren’t canon for any hero?

[reef hamlet]

i think zen's is up for debate

also i dont think mercy can actually resurrect people

[rare trail]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/144FXvLRxw2F_H_qyKjHa2adUoKIm0QuUFA0vH3nK7TI/edit

i believe this is up to date

[rare trail]

ramattra has no canon abilities

[sharp trench]

i’m a little disappointed bastions new ult isnt canon while his old one was

[tranquil orbit]

Yet*

We dont know what kind of upgrades he might be installed w or get installed in the future

[rare trail]

his old one wasnt like completely canon either

like

there were bastions that could do that but like our bastion probably couldnt just go into tank form

[sharp trench]

not ours but there were variants that could

[rare trail]

i mean thats like basically the same with current ult

[candid tartan]

it was already there long before colonialism, see the romans, the greeks, the persians, the egyptians... it's created as a us versus them thing

[rare trail]

like null sector does artillery strikes

they just dont use bastions anymore

[candid tartan]

No, heavy infantry just isn't needed in the scenarios we've seen

[rare trail]

not really

if he had bastions they wouldve been used in any of the pve

[native wadi]

is mercys rez canon??

[rare trail]

no

[native wadi]

ok i was thinking that if it was canon imagine what we should do

[rare trail]

i mean its "kind of" canon

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-heal-mei-overwatch2-gif-15516146

like this is resurrect

[candid tartan]

again, heavy infantry wasn't needed in any of the scenarios we've seen, also... like, it takes time to produce new bastion units, what with Bastion being "the last bastion"

[rare trail]

it takes time to produce all the units seen in pve

ramattra hasnt been shown to make bastion units

[candid tartan]

you're not going to see them pop up overnight from a terrorist group that just days before was trying to hide their presence

[candid tartan]

and we've seen all of like four battles in the start of a war

[rare trail]

kings row uprising was like 10 years ago

[candid tartan]

okay and? that wasn't part of the war we're discussing

also it was more like 20 iirc

[rare trail]

it was 10

[candid tartan]

nah, link sources

[rare trail]

"terrorist group that just days before was trying to hide their presence" kings row uprising was known to be null sector

[candid tartan]

Link sources

[rare trail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wDV8x6w7s

[candid tartan]

That doesn't mention null sector once

[rare trail]

"twenty years after the omnic crisis"

[candid tartan]

nice try

[rare trail]

you didnt watch it

https://youtu.be/B5wDV8x6w7s?t=27

[candid tartan]

I literally know that cinematic by heart, don't need to

stop spamming

[rare trail]

the video is linked with a timecode to when they say null sector

[candid tartan]

weird, I'm pretty sure "talon" sounds nothing like null sector

[rare trail]

????

[candid tartan]

stop trolling

came here for intelligent discussion, instead have someone presenting head canon as fact

and then their sources don't even back up what they are saying

[rare trail]

i kinda assume youre trolling at this point but like https://assets.blz-contentstack.com/v3/assets/blt2477dcaf4ebd440c/bltc08ef1227df73769/638db09da056f810486e240e/OW_LoreBite-Ramattra_FINAL_EN.pdf

its a known thing in lore that null sector did kings row uprising

[candid tartan]

"it's known in my headcanon that null sector did kings row uprising"

Also, Blizz uses Akamai, not content stack to host content like short stories and comics, so nice try

[rare trail]

i can link the website instead of the pdf if you care

but i kinda assume youre trolling at this point so idc

[candid tartan]

says the troll

[hushed jetty]

null sector did in fact do the kings row uprising

this is known

[past copper]

Alright. Fastest way to settle this and shut one of ‘em up at this point

[hushed jetty]

it resulted in null sector becoming far more known to the public, and ramattra's allies leaving after one of them died

[past copper]

Who has that timeline from the PvE database?

[hushed jetty]

doc probably

[past copper]

I figured. I had it, but I can’t seem to find it. Probably deleted at some point

[native wadi]

how do we know bots and theyre genders

[rare trail]

?

like how do we know ramattra and zen are men and echo is a girl?

[past copper]

They identify as they want

[past copper]

For example, Lynx Seventeen

Doesn’t identify as either he/she

[past copper]

Thanks. Maybe that will finally end that going back n forth earlier

[peak escarp]

there, pinned it

[past copper]

👍

[dreamy shoal]

What happened to Symmetras left hand? On her vishkar skin it's still there but on every other skin it's a metal one.

[dreamy shoal]

Omg I remember zarya HATED this guy back when I read the comics

[peak escarp]

it's possible that Vishkar gives its agents a cybernetic arm so they can manipulate hard light without an emitter

notably, Symmetra is the only Vishkar agent we've seen who has it on her left

Lifeweaver and the others all have it on their right

[tranquil orbit]

is it a cybernetic arm or just a tightly fitted gauntlet?

lw's for me at least looks a lot more like a gauntlet than an arm replacement

[peak escarp]

it was confirmed to be a cybernetic arm

[tranquil orbit]

ah good to know

what abt lw?

[peak escarp]

hasn't been confirmed

but it's likely the same

[tranquil orbit]

yh ig it makes sense if this is the reasoning

[tranquil orbit]

also for this maybe she's left handed?

[peak escarp]

maybe

[tranquil orbit]

ik that sounds like a silly reason but it could be just that 😭

[peak escarp]

there's a few other heroes I suspect of being left handed

Moira, Genji, Mei, Sombra

[tranquil orbit]

theyre spreading everywhere smh

sombra makes sense because i guess the hacking is the more intense hand movement

altho she'd have to be pretty ambidextrous i think

[peak escarp]

Genji is seen writing with his left hand in the Christmas comic

Moira experimented on her right arm (it's not logical to experiment on your dominant arm)

[tranquil orbit]

true

[peak escarp]

Mei uses chopsticks leftie in the montage in Rise & Shine

[tranquil orbit]

bastion is technically left handed asw

mainly because it's the only one w a hand 😭

[peak escarp]

Orisa too, but the art shows her with two arms and no gun, so she might be able to swap them out

[tranquil orbit]

wonder if we'll see the same w bastion

altho icl something abt him not having his gun feels a bit cursed

[dreamy shoal]

So do they just cut half of her arm off and strap on a cybernetic one? Doesn't that seem illegal to yall?

[peak escarp]

not if it's voluntary

[dreamy shoal]

That's like an office job asking you to cut off your leg to be hired.

[peak escarp]

Ana sacrificed her eye to be a better sniper

nobody said Vishkar were the good guys

[dreamy shoal]

But widow shot off her eye, she didn't consent to having her eye shot out her skull.

[peak escarp]

no before that

Ana got a cybernetic eye so she could be a better sniper

it was the cybernetic eye that was destroyed when Widow shot the scope of her rifile

[dreamy shoal]

So it was like a brace? but then widow shot out the real one? I'm confused I thought before the accident she had both of her eyes, but widow shot one of them and now she has a cybernetic eye

Still no one consents to having there eyes shot out.

[peak escarp]

no, before the accident she had a cybernetic eye

[dreamy shoal]

Ughhh I wish they would stop focusing on cosmetics and just update the lore

[peak escarp]

but according to Declassified, Ana consented to getting the cybernetic eye so she could be a better sniper

[tranquil orbit]

the shot is still extremely dangerous because the bullet hits the brain

[peak escarp]

incorrect

[tranquil orbit]

she probably shouldve died and was lucky to get away w just amnesia

[peak escarp]

the bullet didn't hit Ana

[tranquil orbit]

wait what

[peak escarp]

the bullet hit her rifle's scope

[tranquil orbit]

what abt the amnesia

[dreamy shoal]

You gotta be trolling

[peak escarp]

and the shrapnel from the scope hit Ana

"bullet hit rifle pt holding to eye"

[tranquil orbit]

ah so the shrapnel hit her brain not the bullet

[peak escarp]

yes

[tranquil orbit]

makes sense

[peak escarp]

still caused amnesia and severe trauma

[tranquil orbit]

still probably couldve died v lucky situation

[peak escarp]

yes

[dreamy shoal]

Ohhhhh

[acoustic ice]

why she named janina here

[peak escarp]

it's the Polish equivalent of Jane Doe

a name they give to someone who is unidentified

since she was amnesiac

[acoustic ice]

ahh i see

when did ana regain her memories

or is she still amnesiac

[peak escarp]

she regained most of her memories after a few months, but she admits in Bastet that some things are still fuzzy

[past copper]

Null Sector supporters

Null Sector probably would have quite a few around the world

Just look at the omnics from Toronto working with a Null Sector unit

[crimson dawn]

We need more Omnic supports in the game

We need more null sector heroes too

[keen summit]

I mean yes, you can even survive a shot to the head when lucky, but it went through so many things that it is quite believable she could survive as scope, then prosthetic eye

[keen summit]

I mean we only know one other sentient null sector omnic, kace

There are supporters, but its not like they are all in null sector cuz ram doesnt trust easily

[wintry sundial]

pokemon gang ahh design i love it

[past copper]

Places you’d probably find Null Sector supporters. Mexico, King’s Row… possibly Australia for any civilian omnics who had any run ins with junkers

Looking at these guys tho, def strikes me as King’s Row based on the outfits

Wonder if it’s a foreshadowing of what we can expect if Kace returns as playable hero

[keen summit]

Eh kaces design is very different

Likely cuz his job was too kinda create a culty idea

I myself like to believe there are like a few big parts of null sector who basically try to make the supporters grow, so kace was through basically being racist to humans and creating a cult like hatred for them

[past copper]

Kace had a different view than Ramattra

So much so, he’d willing put the lives of his fellow omincs at risk

Even attempting to kill Iggy when she refused to follow him

[keen summit]

Basically i explain it like this: kace is what people think that ram is

[quasi imp]

lore wise, who are stronger valorant agents or OW agents

[keen summit]

Probs valorant

[quasi imp]

oh that's interesting

[keen summit]

If u mean like the overwatch group

[quasi imp]

yes

amd who is like considered the leader of OW group? like in valorant we all know its Brimstone

[keen summit]

Winston atm

But from what we know valorant cuz there they have been shown to be create disasters

None of the overwatch members can that from what we know

And the most op things are achievable by val agents like practically creating stuff from nothing

[quasi imp]

oh i understand

I have another question because Chamber is like my favorite character, he is like that traitor and who only work for his benefits, is there any Overwatch equivalent to Chamber

[keen summit]

Well sombra

[quasi imp]

omg sombra, she looked like the innocent woman

[keen summit]

Well

Shes with talon

But only cares about her own goals

Same with ram

Ram only works with talon cuz its usefull

In the ow org theres nobody like that

[keen summit]

And mauga

[quasi imp]

oh i understand tho

is there any siblings in overwatch

[keen summit]

But if we compare the physical strength ow wins easily

[keen summit]

Yes hanzo and genji but again do you mean game or the organization

Ill assume you mean the game

[quasi imp]

game yes

[keen summit]

The difference in ow vs valorant powerscaling is that they kept ow more realistic and show little of power limits

In theory sigma lw sym would be absolutely op, but we dont know yet . Valorant we have heard what they can do cuz kayo and their past

[quasi imp]

oh i understand now

[keen summit]

There are no feats that are disaster like from ow that is confirmed to be done by the power of the hero alone

[quasi imp]

oh i see

[keen summit]

In valorant there are

[quasi imp]

yes exactly

[keen summit]

But if it was physically overwatch is way stronger

[quasi imp]

good knowledge bro

what other game lore you also know

[keen summit]

A few, but i know alot bout those two, legend of Zelda etc

[quasi imp]

oh okay okay

[keen summit]

But i would advice against going too far off ow as we should keep it related to it

If u have other questions ask anytime ill try to get to it

But if u want base knowledge, watch shorts and origin stories bout who interests you, origin stories mind you are all from the heroes' Pov

[quasi imp]

okaays

[tranquil orbit]

Yh i was just under the assumption that it was a bullet to the brain (which there are examples of ppl surviving surprisingly)

But the shrapnel didnt quite get deep enough to be lethal in that scenario luckily

[worthy rose]

What known about Tracer lore to this moment?

[wraith cloak]

Sombra built her translocator and hacking glove right?

[spare fox]

It's not said either way

[tranquil orbit]

Wasnt there a theory at some point she made her translocator from a stolen part of tracer's accelerator technology

Not sure how up to date that is though

[peak escarp]

there's OW1 voice lines that imply Sombra made her translocator using the stolen schematics of Tracer's chronal accelerator

[tranquil orbit]

Yhhh but since then it's been removed

So idk if theyve wanted to retcon or distance im not sure

[peak escarp]

nothing has contradicted that

[tranquil orbit]

True

[peak escarp]

so I assume it's still canon

[golden oak]

Is there a version of overwatch cookbook online???

[dreamy shoal]

Did doomfist order widow to kill mondatta or did she just do it for funsies?

[rare trail]

killing mondatta was a talon mission yeah

[tranquil orbit]

Yh rule of thumb widow doesnt rly do much unless shes ordered to

She's modified to be a perfect sniper and doesnt rly do much out of turn

At least from what weve seen so far

[dreamy shoal]

she does have free will right? I mean she isn't a robot.

[rare trail]

yeah

but she like doesnt go around killing random people for fun

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh it depends on what your definition of free will is

If u got kidnapped and turned into a sleeper agent w an artificially low heart rate, extreme reflexes and tendency towards taking orders

I wouldnt think of myself as v free 💀

[rare trail]

well that stuff didnt happen all at once

[tranquil orbit]

That being said tho theres a whole argument as to whether u can even call amelie and widowmaker the same person

Whole other kettle of fish that

[rare trail]

the sleeping agent stuff happened
then she killed gerard
then she chose to go back to talon
then low heart rate surgery and stuff

[tranquil orbit]

All of those things compounded tho she still didnt rly have all that much choice

But it's like i was saying i dont even think amelie exists anymore the way we think of that old personality

[rare trail]

well it was a choice between like jail or talon but she still chose talon

[tranquil orbit]

So it's up to u how u see it

[rare trail]

"With few other options left, Amélie returned to Talon, chasing the high that had both thrilled and terrified her." like she had "few options" but she still had choices that weren't talon

and all the emotion dampening and heart rate stuff was voluntary

[dreamy shoal]

Going outside, privacy, fun, idk normal human stuff

[tranquil orbit]

She was psychologically broken before this point though

And it was reactivated

So i feel like as soon as the kidnapping happened u start blurring the lines between amelie and "widowmaker"

[rare trail]

it does say in her bio "Overwatch had never truly rescued Amélie Lacroix. They had merely delivered Widowmaker to her first victim."

[tranquil orbit]

Yeppp

[rare trail]

they still refer to her as amelie though and only swap to widowmaker AFTER the voluntary stuff that made her heart rate low and dampened emotions

[tranquil orbit]

I feel like that's out of narrative convention though as she didnt have her official name yet

In terms of personality though that's different

Thats why i think u either say 1) she doesn't have free will or 2) "amelie" is basically lost forever and u need to treat "widowmaker" as a different person

[rare trail]

i dont think theres only two options

and any claim she doesnt have free will isnt backed up by the lore

[tranquil orbit]

I fail to see how u can argue that she does from an ethical standpoint though

Being psychologically traumatised into something u dont want to be is a severe lack of agency

And her getting kidnapped wasnt a personal choice to begin w

[rare trail]

she had free will when she chose to go back to talon and currently shes like just as "stuck in talon" as someone like reaper but ive never seen anyone argue reaper doesnt have free will

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh i think even w reaper u can argue that he doesnt have too much choice in the matter as he needs moira to survive it seems

But w widow how much can we rly say she "chose" to go back to talon when they basically made her the person she is without any say in the matter?

For me it's hard to follow that unless we're treating widow and amelie as 2 different parts

[rare trail]

its unclear how the neural reconditioning affected amelie but we do know that she at least acted normal enough to pass a psychological evaluation and passed as just being amelie for two weeks in front of her husband, its not shown that talon completely changed her personality or anything and they didnt force her to come back, she chose to come back because she enjoyed killing

i think she only really became "widowmaker" when she chose to come back to talon and kill more people

[tranquil orbit]

On surface level yeah but the whole premise of her being a sleeper agent is that this psychological state gets reactivated when talon saw fit

[peak escarp]

she has enough free will and freedom to visit her husband's grave and to buy and renovate her family's ancestral home

so far the only thing we've seen her do that she didn't want to do was kill Gerard

[desert totem]

what’s doom lore

[glossy gazelle]

Big fist go boom boom

[worthy rose]

Jddbdbis c

[past copper]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[viral tendon]

"Akande Ogundimu was born into a well-regarded Nigerian family, heir to its prosthetic-technology company, and as such, no stranger to the finer things in life. A highly intelligent and charismatic figure, Ogundimu helped to expand his family's business and position it for the future while dedicating his free time to his first love: competitive martial arts. He trained in traditional African fighting styles, including Dambe and Gidigbo, as well as in wrestling and other modern combat systems, incorporating the most effective techniques into his repertoire. Ogundimu competed in tournaments all over the continent, utilizing his intuition and ability to read opponents alongside his tremendous speed and strength."
(ow wiki https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Doomfist#Overview)

[golden oak]

So Venture obviously don’t likes talon but what about sombra? Most characters are pretty chill with Sombra even if they oppose talon (well except zarya but that’s a personal issue)

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh we dont know that mainly because she hasnt rly had enough proper interactions

A lot of her ones in the spawn rooms are kinda the more "silly" ones that imo u dont rly take too much as evidence

Things like her one w echo or winston w the firewall hacking

[golden oak]

But it’s still hypothetical interactions, so we know if her and Winston and echo were to meet, she would be friendly like that

Although it’s kinda weird how for example Lucio and Ram has a friendly interaction, even tho ram attacked his home
(But tbf the favourite animal interaction is for almost every hero so I wouldn’t count that)

But we know for sure Sombra met cass, soldier and bap I think
And she’s friendly with all of them pretty sure

She’s not a hostile person as we see, since information is so important to her it’s more valuable for her to not be enemies with people she might want information from

[tranquil orbit]

I feel like the context is rly important though

Like in a jokey situation like this maybe but i kinda doubt the two of them would be so relaxed abt it esp because idt either of them have acc met sombra yet

[tranquil orbit]

Yh this is another example of how there's just some "silly" interactions that dont carry too much weight

Soldier i wouldnt say is super friendly but at least has some common interests

Cass i wanna say is a like hate sort of dynamic but they have met before

[tranquil orbit]

Once again tho context is everything ... if she had to hurt someone close to someone else to get what she wants (e.g. zarya volskaya case) then all of the sudden shes not some snarky hacker anymore that makes jokes in the spawn room

It'd be weird and very mcu for them to just act like things like that dont have any consequence

Not that theyve rly happened yet but thats why im saying we cant know for sure ugm?

[golden oak]

Sombra blackmailing Volskaya didn’t really affect zarya personally tho
It’s just that zarya worked for Volskaya atm

[tranquil orbit]

Yh but she also went on a chase yadayadayada

I did say something extreme didnt rly happen yet tho

[golden oak]

Cuz she was ordered to find her by Volskaya

[tranquil orbit]

It's moreso just like if the opportunity was to exist then we cant know for sure

[golden oak]

Did you read the comic

[tranquil orbit]

Yes i did

But the point still stands that we cant say for sure until sombra acc does something

Like lets say hypothetically she were to hack echo

Assuming she even could

Can we rly say everyones still gonna be chill w her because shes allegedly "chaotic neutral" or whatever ppl label her as

Like nah the relationships evolve based on how the story unfolds

Main problem is that sombra hasnt done much like that or even been put into those situations

So for me we cant know for sure

[golden oak]

I mean she’s a literal talon agent yet overwatch members don’t really seem to hate her (except zarya)

[tranquil orbit]

But most of them havent even run in to her properly (that we know of)

Thats my issue

And tbh she hasnt done much in the way of high consequence missions that ow agents were involved in outside of the volskaya incident

[golden oak]

I think overwatch members just know that Sombra is just using talon for intel and does stuff her way most of the time

[tranquil orbit]

Doing stuff for "yourself" does inevitably mean innocent ppl get hurt though

U dont get to act selfishly without any consequences

Plus she does need to follow talons orders to a certain extent

[golden oak]

Not really

She helped people of her town with the lumerico ceo

[tranquil orbit]

I think it does because ultimately 1 persons wants and needs are almost never in the interests of everyone

[tranquil orbit]

This is true however joining talon and participating in what they do arguably does just as much bad

For example in that hypothetical like if she had to hack echo for a talon mission im not so sure she'd just pass up on that opportunity

[golden oak]

Yeah but she sabotaged Volskaya’s assassination

If Sombra wasn’t there Volskaya would be dead

[tranquil orbit]

Once again for her own benefit

[golden oak]

Yeah but have you seen her origin story

There’s this enigma thing she’s trying to uncover

[tranquil orbit]

Yes ofc i have but it doesnt change the facts that as long as shes working for talon with v little remorse theres gonna be highly immoral things she participates in

[golden oak]

Manipulating people is just a part of the plan

[tranquil orbit]

It doesnt matter what u want or think u care abt if you're still hurting ppl along the way or even being complicit then u cant expect everyone to be "chill" with her

At least thats my stance

It happens on a case by case basis

[golden oak]

Idk so far she didn’t do much harm, she stopped an assassination and rescued sigma from some mental asylum facility (but tbf it was more like a prison for him)

[tranquil orbit]

Shes part of talon 😭

[golden oak]

And she’s opposing what moira does to him

[tranquil orbit]

Verbally but shes not really doing all too much just yet from what we know of

Not that she rly can

But that doesnt change the facts

A good way of thinking abt this is comparing her to baptiste imo

[golden oak]

Yeah she can’t really change talon can she

[tranquil orbit]

If she rly had any guilty conscience abt the immorality of what she was practicipating in then she wouldve left like him

[rare trail]

well like

bap was just a random like infantry medic sombra is much much higher up

[golden oak]

I believe talon was necessary evil for her because talon has a lot of intel to offer since they can acquire information illegally

[tranquil orbit]

True but shes also way more elusive

She can dip whenever she wants

[rare trail]

and even bap got hunted by talon(although that was probably mostly because of mauga)

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but once again to GET to that intel u need to participate in their actions

And as ive said my view is that your actions matter just as much as pure intentions

So idt it's natural for everyone to just be calm abt sombra

It'll be a case by case basis

[golden oak]

Ok but at the end of the day because of her actions talon doesn’t do as much harm as it would without her

[tranquil orbit]

Thats certainly a take 😭

Unless we know her to be actively sabotaging for the sake of it (she isnt she just does it when it maybe benefits her) then idt we can say that

Shes a rly good resource for them

[golden oak]

And when she won’t need talon anymore she’s gonna leave 100%

[tranquil orbit]

True but that wont erase what shes done or had a part in

[golden oak]

Like what

[tranquil orbit]

Ok so u see for example in the great day w missions like that

Doesnt even need to be that one in particular

Even recovering sigma

If sigma somehow gets used as a super weapon by talon and costs lives

Thats partially on her

Same way every time she uses her hacking and it benefits the org (which will take innocent lives)

Every minor thing

[golden oak]

Sigma lore hasn’t been touched in years so good luck with that

[tranquil orbit]

I dont think youre understanding the point here 😭

It's not abt sigma it's to illustrate a point

If youre complicit in something for your own benefit u cant expect everyone to feel the same "chill" way abt that person

It's not as simple as saying "sombra's evil" or even "chaotic neutral" it's the fact that it matters on a case by case basis what every character feels

Thats why I think we still dont know enough

[golden oak]

Ok but like, all the overwatch heroes don’t really seem to care about it

[tranquil orbit]

U cant get that from the lobby voicelines is my opinion

Like are we REALLY expecting echo to just crack jokes if sombra was to hack her 😭

If that was to happen in the story i think it'd be a massive plot point

And rightfully so it'd be interesting