yeah winston is overall strongest but hes not the most strong in every single situation
#lore-discussion
rare trail
worthy rose
is mauga strong
drowsy violet
Talon got him free and gave him his resources to conduct experiments
to unknowningly they do control Sigma
just not in his eyes
rare trail
if they told him to kill someone he probably wouldnt do it
drowsy violet
Well that depends which side of him you asks
rare trail
he doesnt have did
drowsy violet
plus if they embellish it or something he might do it
rare trail
like sigma doesnt have multiple personalities
talon cant tell him to do something and he does it just because they told him to
they wont even do invasive tests on him because they know thye dont control him
drowsy violet
like sigma doesnt have multiple personalities
He's literally cracked
His brain was quite literally transported across the whole universe
That's why he's crazy
rare trail
He's literally cracked
his mind is fractured but that doesnt equal multiple personalities
he doesnt have did
rare trail
His brain was quite literally transported across the whole universe
no it wasnt
rare trail
yes he did
D.I.D. the medical disorder
rare trail
He literally met zenyatta's god there
iris is a state of being not a person its not something you can meet
drowsy violet
That explains the conversations between zenyatta and him about the Iris
rare trail
That explains the conversations between zenyatta and him about the Iris
iris isnt a person
drowsy violet
Iris has a god
drowsy violet
It's a god AI
drowsy violet
Where are you getting your information brah
rare trail
the iris isnt a person
drowsy violet
Sigmas mind is literally so cracked he has multiple personalities
rare trail
he doesnt have multiple personalities
drowsy violet
Yes he does
rare trail
thats not shown anywhere
drowsy violet
His OWN CINEMATIC SHOWS a major switch in behavior
what are you talking about
He has 2 or more sides to him
rare trail
His OWN CINEMATIC SHOWS a major switch in behavior
mood swings happen after major traumatic events
rare trail
gifs dont work
you dont have reg
drowsy violet
We need the lore officers to see whos right
cuz like Sigma literally has multiple personalities
rare trail
no he doesnt
rare trail
His mind literally got messed up from the black hole
that doesnt = multiple personalities
people can have mood swings after a traumatic event and not have multiple personalities
rare trail
fractured =/= multiple personalities
drowsy violet
YOU KNOWN WHAT I MEAN
rare trail
drowsy violet
rare trail
We need the lore officers to see whos right
lore warlord agrees with me
drowsy violet
Lore... Warlord.
we'll see bout dat.
@peak escarp
Sigma has multiple personalities right? From the black hole incident
rare trail
she has literally said before that sigma doesnt
drowsy violet
well she mightve changed her mind
Theres no proof that sigma has mood swings over a personality disorder
vice versa
He literally acts like a whole new person
rare trail
He literally acts like a whole new person
we didnt see much of him before the experiment we dont really know what he was like before
also major traumatic events can change people
drowsy violet
Major Traumatic Events can cause D.I.D
rare trail
but theres no evidence for did other than him changing
he just has mood swings after a major traumatic event
drowsy violet
Well maybe he just has D.I.D after the black hole freak accident
"Sigma suffers from split personality, which is demonstrated by his past self, who is "innocent" and oblivious to the crimes of his much crueler side" LITERALLY ON THE FORUM
rare trail
but the only evidence for that is mood swings after a major traumatic event
rare trail
"Sigma suffers from split personality, which is demonstrated by his past self, w...
forums arent a valid source
rare trail
what is a valid source then
origin video, biography, or code of violence
drowsy violet
origin video, biography, or code of violence
THAT ALL SHOWS HE HAS MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES
rare trail
Lord Warlord?
you are the one who brought up the "lore officers" thing
rare trail
THAT ALL SHOWS HE HAS MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES
no it doesnt
drowsy violet
Talon literally wants to bring out sigmas crueler personality
rare trail
source?
drowsy violet
you are the one who brought up the "lore officers" thing
official.
drowsy violet
source?
Origin video shows that he has at least 3 personalities
The gentler side
the crueler side
and the conflicted side
rare trail
Origin video shows that he has at least 3 personalities
no
drowsy violet
we know talon
wants to bring out his crueler
side
so he could carry out their shit whatever talon does
rare trail
sometimes people have mood swings after traumatic events
idk why thats so hard to understand
drowsy violet
oh my god
Look at the trailer when he seemed to be splitting into two and the fact that if you play the trailer backwards you can hear ominous messages supposedly from the 'good' sigma.
What are you gonna say about that?
"iT jUSt ShoWS HiS MajOR MoOD SwiNGS"
rare trail
Look at the trailer when he seemed to be splitting into two and the fact that if...
thats just a visual effect
rare trail
me when someone has mood swings
drowsy violet
LITERALLY
GIVING YOU THE ANSWER
NOT EVEN HINTING
ITS GIVING YOU THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HE HAS MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES BRANCHING OFF FROM HIS MAIN ONE
drowsy violet
VISUALLY
rare trail
it never says that anywhere
drowsy violet
AND AUDIATLLY (spelt that wrong)
drowsy violet
it never says that anywhere
IT SHWOS IT
IN THE ORIGIN
VIDEO
IOHY MJTDWAHS
ITS LITERALLY CONNECTING THE DOTS
rare trail
a visual effect doesnt =/= having multiple personalities
drowsy violet
IT DOES WHEN YOU CAN PIECE TWO AND TWO TOGETHER
rare trail
"De Kuiper was only exposed to its power for a moment, but he suffered serious psychological damage."
drowsy violet
"De Kuiper was only exposed to its power for a moment, but he suffered serious p...
A.k.a D.I.D
rare trail
A.k.a D.I.D
serious psychological damage =/= did
rare trail
your evidence is mood swings after a traumatic event and the fact he suffered psychological damage
drowsy violet
no
rare trail
the fact you thought the iris was a person you can meet tells me a lot about how much you know about the lore
drowsy violet
my evidence is D.I.D after a traumatic event that fractured his personality into multiples
rare trail
he doesnt have multiple personalities
drowsy violet
the fact you thought the iris was a person you can meet tells me a lot about how...
Well its an entity
drowsy violet
he doesnt have multiple personalities
he does
rare trail
Well its an entity
no its not
its a state of being
you have no idea what the iris is
drowsy violet
yes he does
rare trail
why
drowsy violet
its shown
rare trail
what does he do
drowsy violet
What does he do?
rare trail
why doesnt his bio ever state "sigma has multiple personalities after the experiment"
drowsy violet
because its literally obvious
drowsy violet
BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS
oh me god
you're the person who literally said nobody controls Sigma
drowsy violet
thats overwatch for you then
rare trail
you're the person who literally said nobody controls Sigma
no one really does
drowsy violet
TALON DOES
rare trail
talon cant effectively control hi,
if talon could control him why hasnt he gone on any missions?
drowsy violet
'effectively' control =/= Controlling regardless
drowsy violet
if talon could control him why hasnt he gone on any missions?
He literally
has
a skin
rare trail
him having a skin doesnt mean hes gone on a mission
drowsy violet
the talon skin had informationan attached to it though
drowsy violet
him having a skin doesnt mean hes gone on a mission
Im not saying he did
I'm saying Talon controlled him
Like how they controlled Baptiste at first
rare trail
what does the talon description say?
rare trail
so what information do you think the talon skin has attached to it
its not even canon
drowsy violet
I dont know all I know is that it IS CANON
ALL THE TALON SKINS ARE CANON
BAPTISTE'S TALON SKIN IS CANON
rare trail
ALL THE TALON SKINS ARE CANON
wrong
rare trail
MORIAS TALON SKIN IS CANON
moira doesnt have a talon skin
rare trail
she doesnt have a talon skin
drowsy violet
wait a secondf
ok youre right about that
i confused it with the blackwatch skin
Doomfist
rare trail
you're probably thinking of her blackwatch skin
rare trail
doomfist talon skin isnt shown anywhere canon iirc
drowsy violet
sombra has her talon skin
drowsy violet
doomfist talon skin isnt shown anywhere canon iirc
yeah but
hes one of the leaders of talon
so of course that has to be canon
rare trail
you cant just assume all talon skins are canon
drowsy violet
its literally directed to him
@rare trail All the characters in talon have to be canon
rare trail
his "talon" skin is just his base skin
drowsy violet
therefore the skins have to be canon
rare trail
<@733133337840975923> All the characters in talon have to be canon
their talon skins arent necessarily canon
some are but some havent been shown
drowsy violet
But they are based off them being in Talon though
gilded lake
do i have a lore?
drowsy violet
well i mean
gilded lake
go to sleep, pet
ok : )
drowsy violet
gilded lake
😴
rare trail
do i have a lore?
you were a butler for a rich snobby family but then the kid rebelled started a gang with cassidy then cassidy got found out left your gang you got upgrades and many years later while at route 66 you see cassidy again and you fight him and lose despite having you're entire gang and hes just one guy with a gun
and you're sentient
btw
gilded lake
you were a butler for a rich snobby family but then the kid rebelled started a g...
i didnt know that : )
rare trail
wheres ashe at : (
in the deadlock gang
the rich snobby family's child was ashe
shes the kid that rebelled
gilded lake
in the deadlock gang
: (
gilded lake
why is that sad?
becuse i wanted to bomb mcree : (
rare trail
you can still bomb cassidy
just dont have as big of a skill issue as you had in reunion
worthy rose
i think cassidy is more powerful than sigma
rare trail
i think cassidy is more powerful than sigma
nah
cass is just a cowboy with a robot arm
steady flax
Tfw I took a multi year break from OW after Blizzard's scandals only to come back and realize literally nothing new has happened in the story and PVE still isn't a non-event thing
😦
rare trail
Tfw I took a multi year break from OW after Blizzard's scandals only to come bac...
theres new story stuff
steady flax
I mean there's new characters
But their backstories don't seem to extend beyond the Recall trailer much if at all
rare trail
yeah
mellow zephyr
do i have a lore?
also D.VA thinks you're cute
mellow zephyr
It's my favorite voice line between ashe and her yeah
peak escarp
Tfw I took a multi year break from OW after Blizzard's scandals only to come bac...
depends how many years - since 2019 we've had 2 full comic series, 5 short stories, 2 animated shorts, 3 novels
steady flax
depends how many years - since 2019 we've had 2 full comic series, 5 short stor...
I'm talking in-universe events post-Recall beyond "this character is showing up now"
mellow zephyr
voice lines i assume?
"I saw you on a wanted poster with a cute guy!"
"...Please tell me you don't mean Cassidy?"
"Ew no! The tall one with the little hat!"
"Oh, Bob. I'll tell him you said hello."
peak escarp
rare trail
aww thats a cute line
steady flax
Doomfist coming back was made out to be such a big deal over half a decade ago and as far as we know, him coming back is literally all he's done
peak escarp
a lot of things happen post-Recall
steady flax
Do I have to buy comics to see them happen
steady flax
Hm
peak escarp
the only lore that isn't free are the 3 novels
steady flax
Not a fan either way
steady flax
I'd just like for something to happen in the game and not third party media
Like how all the anniversary events preceded Recall (iirc)
peak escarp
you mean Archives?
mellow zephyr
There's likely going to be some more in-game lore with the PVE mode coming soon.
steady flax
Oh yeah Archives not anniversary
rare trail
so just retribution storm rising and kings row uprising are the only story things that count?
steady flax
My b
peak escarp
well we're less than a year away from the launch of PvE, and that will move the story forward
steady flax
There's likely going to be some more in-game lore with the PVE mode coming soon.
The PVE was what I was most hyped for before Blizzard went to the shits.
And it still ain't a thing 😅
Hope it's good tho
mellow zephyr
Supposedly it should be dropping pretty soon this year. Maybe in the next couple months.
steady flax
I'd play the hell out of it
I just hope the events are actually significant like legit OW vs Talon battles that have lasting consequences
Not just skirmishes with Null Sector that don't have any impact ya know
mellow zephyr
I personally just hope it gets enough playtime that they add onto it after it releases and doesn't get forgotten about like other multiplayer games with PVE modes.
peak escarp
that is the plan, last we heard
steady flax
Oh yeah for sure.
Any word on the "multiple ultimates and abilities" thing they said they'd do forever ago
peak escarp
talents
steady flax
I remember that being a thing in the original OW2 marketing
peak escarp
steady flax
Is that gonna come with the PVE update you think?
peak escarp
yes
steady flax
Ooh will it be exclusive to PVE?
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
this is a large part of what is slowing down the release of PvE
that and cutscenes
each hero needs 30-50 talents in 3 trees
steady flax
Oh wow
peak escarp
they said the talents will be used in Hero Missions, but they were open to adding them in Story Missions too
steady flax
I wonder if they'll finally laumch archives missions permanently with the pve mode
peak escarp
I hope they do
steady flax
Same
worthy rose
have they made hanzo better than sigma lore
peak escarp
I'd like to see the Archives missions get overhauled and updated for the new engine and enemy types
peak escarp
which they might do - the three maps with completed extra areas are the 3 maps from Archives
Rialto, Havana and King's Row
steady flax
Oh random question real quick, was there ever an in universe explanation for McCree's name change
peak escarp
kinda
steady flax
Obviously we know why they did it irl I was just curious
rare trail
have they made hanzo better than sigma lore
wdym "better"
steady flax
Was it like an alias or something?
rare trail
i thought it was explained in new blood
steady flax
wdym "better"
I think he means canonically who is stronger
Which I don't even see why that would be in question given Sigma can bend reality
rare trail
i thought he could just control gravity
steady flax
Yeah but to the extent that he can make black holes which, in a way, break reality
Or at least the laws of physics
rare trail
i dont think he can make black holes
rare trail
when?
rare trail
That's like his defining skill
when does he do that
rare trail
abilities in game arent necessarily canon and we dont know those are black holes
steady flax
rare trail
like he is never shown in lore to control black holes
steady flax
Then he's literally just a big guy with no discernable skills or abilities or weapons
rare trail
Then he's literally just a big guy with no discernable skills or abilities or we...
no?
not having the ability to control black holes isnt the same thing as not having an ability
steady flax
His weapons are literally mini black holes
steady flax
The same reason I think Lúcio's gun uses sound
And Tracer can blink in and out of the present (sorta)
rare trail
theres reason to think lucios gun uses sound
rare trail
thats stated in lore
theres a reason to think tracer can blink
thats shown in lore
theres no reason to think sigma is shooting black holes
steady flax
https://twitter.com/PlayOverwatch/status/1451624387732512770?s=20
Okay so it was an alias. I can dig that tbh
peak escarp
they're called hyperspheres
steady flax
Also explains why Ashe called him McCree in her short.
rare trail
so like if we get into the name its just sphere with a lot of energy
peak escarp
except they've kinda abandoned the idea and now everyone just calls him Cassidy
twilit vale
😭I just read that junkrat canonically eats his toenails
rare trail
except they've kinda abandoned the idea and now everyone just calls him Cassidy
i kinda like that they did that a plothole is worth not calling him the name of that dev
steady flax
theres no reason to think sigma is shooting black holes
Alright so Sigma's power is that he can manipulate gravity and he creates nebulous vortexes that resemble black holes and do the things black holes do
But they'renot black holes
rare trail
Alright so Sigma's power is that he can manipulate gravity and he creates nebulo...
why do you think he can create nebulous vortexes
rare trail
just provide a source
peak escarp
if Sigma was creating black holes Earth would be destroyed
steady flax
May have heard of ot
peak escarp
exposure to a black hole for a fraction of a second is what shattered his mind in the first place
steady flax
if Sigma was creating black holes Earth would be destroyed
They seem to implode pretty quickly
steady flax
exposure to a black hole for a fraction of a second is what shattered his mind i...
Correct
rare trail
a black hole thats like golf ball size wouldnt implode that quickly
steady flax
Aren't gravitons more or less pseudo black holes
peak escarp
kinda
rare trail
what is a graviton?
peak escarp
they're a cluster of hyper-dense particles
steady flax
a black hole thats like golf ball size wouldnt implode that quickly
My theory is that Sigma can't control gravity to that capacity well enough to prevent the black holes from imploding
rare trail
so maybe sigmas spheres are like mini zarya gravs
peak escarp
in the real world, a graviton is a hypothetical particle that is made of gravity
peak escarp
it's not because they implode
it's because black holes have a massive gravitational pull that would tear everything apart around it
steady flax
i mean sigmas spheres arent necessarily for combat
Then it would be pretty strange for the devs to show them primarily being used in game for combative purposes only to be like "actually nah" many years later
rare trail
also if its black holes where would sigma get all the mass from
peak escarp
Then it would be pretty strange for the devs to show them primarily being used i...
Zenyatta's orbs were shown to just be meditation tools in Stone by Stone
steady flax
it's because black holes have a massive gravitational pull that would tear every...
I mean hey I didn't say they had the specifics downpat
Just lookikg at the black hole he made in the short, he shouldn't even exist anymore
steady flax
Zenyatta's orbs were shown to just be meditation tools in Stone by Stone
But he could hurl them I presume.
peak escarp
I guess
steady flax
also if its black holes where would sigma get all the mass from
How does he control gravity
rare trail
i mean thats a pretty big black hole
rare trail
How does he control gravity
i dunno magic black hole brain sci fi
steady flax
Most likely correct lmao
rare trail
well wait
thats not a black hole i dont think
"But something went wrong, triggering the brief formation of a black hole." it could just be a graviton
steady flax
Either way, even if he couldn't control gravity to the point of making a black hole, he could easily flatten, or at the absolute least cripple anyone that fought him in an instant
So yeah he's the strongest character canonically speaking
rare trail
so like the black hole isnt that big
rare trail
Either way, even if he couldn't control gravity to the point of making a black h...
i mean we dont know hte extent of his powers yet
steady flax
That seems like a stretch
rare trail
just some control of gravity
steady flax
If he couldn't use the gravity abilities to harm his enemies then he would be useless to Talon
rare trail
"When Talon discovered De Kuiper's existence, they sent Reaper, Sombra, and ultimately, Widowmaker, to infiltrate the facility and break him out, planning to use his brilliance and research to further their plans. In their custody, De Kuiper slowly gained control of his powers."
peak escarp
Talon is using him for his research, not for his combat capabilities
rare trail
he couldnt control his powers when they broke him out
steady flax
Yes but they clearly saw combative purposes in him
And the end of the trailer shows him in a combative stance, implying that he is in fact a soldier for them now
I could be wrong but that would be a pretty blunderous way of presenting him if I were
rare trail
but he isnt hes never been shown to fight
steady flax
but he isnt hes never been shown to fight
He's a playable character in the game
I mean I guess
rare trail
he seems to be able to create the gravitons in lore
rare trail
He's a playable character in the game
zenyatta is a damage based support but is very weak in lore
the game isnt canon
steady flax
I don't think being near a graviton would cause him to see the universe and go bonkers
Not unless Zarya is low-key psychotic also
rare trail
yeah i black hole formed for a bit thats what caused him to go crazy
wooden sleet
is orb of harmony just zen giving good vibes
rare trail
i mean he can heal in some way based off voice lines
steady flax
zenyatta is a damage based support but is very weak in lore
That's going down to stats and auxiliary mechanics, not what he does. In lore it makes sense that he could hurl the balls at people to hurt them.
steady flax
is orb of harmony just zen giving good vibes
How I like to imagine it lmao
rare trail
Yes and no to that
the game isnt a valid source for something being canon
steady flax
According to Villains wiki, black hole formation is a power of his
So Imma go with that
rare trail
According to Villains wiki, black hole formation is a power of his
wiki isnt a valid source
steady flax
What is a valid source of information if not literally the places people go to for information and the game itself
Or is it all fanfic
rare trail
What is a valid source of information if not literally the places people go to f...
anyone can put anything on the wiki and the game itself isnt a valid source because of stuff like mercy revive
peak escarp
no official source says that they're black holes
steady flax
What is an "official source"
peak escarp
anything made by Blizzard
rare trail
What is an "official source"
comics novels shorts origins bios
steady flax
comics novels shorts origins bios
Third party media isn't canon to the first party property
steady flax
anything made by Blizzard
What about tweets?
peak escarp
Third party media isn't canon to the first party property
those aren't third party
rare trail
Third party media isn't canon to the first party property
blizzard has made comics novels shorts origins and bios about the characters those are canon
peak escarp
those are made by Blizzard
steady flax
those aren't third party
Third party as in not in the game. A different medium
Are we including tweets
peak escarp
that's not what third party means
steady flax
peak escarp
depends on who the tweet comes from
steady flax
You're boolin'
vocal marsh
Third party is fanfics and stuff
steady flax
depends on who the tweet comes from
Trick question, death of the author
vocal marsh
Headcanons
rare trail
third party is something not made by blizzard
steady flax
Third party from the medium not the company
peak escarp
death of the author?
rare trail
thats not what that word means though
steady flax
Death of the author is essentially that authorial input isn't concrete to the given work
rare trail
its a different medium but that doesnt make it not canon
peak escarp
death of the author doesn't apply here
steady flax
I.e. If Jeff Kaplin said Overwatch is actually about a penguin with a car, he would be wrong
rare trail
yeah i dont think tweets are absolutely canon
peak escarp
that's for intent and meaning, not facts
steady flax
death of the author doesn't apply here
It absolutely applies to tweets
peak escarp
rare trail
i thought death of the author was like if the author is a bad person or about intent
steady flax
its a different medium but that doesnt make it not canon
It distinguishes canon
peak escarp
you can't look at a tweet from Michael Chu that says "Soldier identifies as gay" and think "death of the author, nah it doesn't count"
steady flax
i thought death of the author was like if the author is a bad person or about in...
No it's essentially a way of distinguishing what the author says outside their work versus the contents of the work itself
rare trail
It distinguishes canon
the comics novels shorts origins and bios are canon even though theyre a different medium
steady flax
you can't look at a tweet from Michael Chu that says "Soldier identifies as gay"...
Uhhhh if Soldier isn't actually shown to be gay then yes I can. That's what happened with Dumbledore pre-Fantastic Beasts
vocal marsh
If it’s tweeted from the Overwatch account, Blizzard, or someone who is currently working on the game, then it is canon until proven otherwise
steady flax
If it’s tweeted from the Overwatch account, Blizzard, or someone who is currentl...
Then the content should actually comply with said tweet. If it doesn't, then it's just "official" headcanon
Hence DotA
vocal marsh
Wtf is official headcanon
vocal marsh
rare trail
yeah i kinda think if its just a michael chu tweet saying soldier is gay its not necessarily canon but given its in bastet then i consider it canon
wooden sleet
official headcanon aka canon
rare trail
fr
steady flax
Only if it's actually supported canonically in the work
steady flax
If some Blizzard writer comes out and says Winston is actually a penguin with no explanation
Is that canon to you
vocal marsh
Then nothing lorewise in canon
wooden sleet
who said gameplay equals canon?
vocal marsh
If some Blizzard writer comes out and says Winston is actually a penguin with no...
We have information that directly contradicts it
wooden sleet
overwatch isn't canon till the pve and story missions become a actual thing
steady flax
We have information that directly contradicts it
That's literally been my entire point y'all have been laughing at
steady flax
overwatch isn't canon till the pve and story missions become a actual thing
Pretty much tbh barring trailers (debatably)
rare trail
overwatch isn't canon till the pve and story missions become a actual thing
besides for retribution kings row uprising and storm rising
vocal marsh
Yeah but the things you have shown have not been directly contradicted
peak escarp
If some Blizzard writer comes out and says Winston is actually a penguin with no...
they would never say that
rare trail
Pretty much tbh barring trailers (debatably)
trailers arent a part of the game
vocal marsh
Unless there is a legitimate reason to believe otherwise, it’s considered canon
steady flax
they would never say that
Doesn't matter. It's about the principal of death of the author.
peak escarp
I keep telling you
wooden sleet
besides for retribution kings row uprising and storm rising
oh yeah and those, XD
peak escarp
that's not what death of the author is
steady flax
Unless there is a legitimate reason to believe otherwise, it’s considered canon
What if there's no reason to believe it besides the tweet
And it contributes nothing to the story
vocal marsh
I mean if there’s no data going against it I’d assume it’s canon until proven otherwise
rare trail
like if something in an origin novel short story comic or bio says winston is a gorilla and michael chu says hes a penguin im gonna believe the origin novel short story comic or bio
but if its left ambiguous then ill believe michael
steady flax
like if something in an origin novel short story comic or bio says winston is a ...
In regards to the canon of the short story or comic or bio, I agree
vocal marsh
Also he literally is a gorilla, like you can take one look at him and say he’s not a penguin
Because those two facts contradict and one is more believable than the other
steady flax
Also he literally is a gorilla, like you can take one look at him and say he’s n...
Correct. I was using a ridiculous hypothetical to make the point
vocal marsh
But sigmas powers are not touched upon in lore
steady flax
I'm just displaying the principal. Just because an author says something doesn't make it automatically true
rare trail
like if michael chu said what species of gorilla winston is i would believe him
vocal marsh
Only in gameplay
steady flax
But sigmas powers are not touched upon in lore
It's vague but you're mostly right
rare trail
But sigmas powers are not touched upon in lore
his bio reveals a little bit
vocal marsh
Yeah but it’s not nuanced like in game
peak escarp
an author is allowed to create their work and define what is true or not in their universe
steady flax
an author is allowed to create their work and define what is true or not in thei...
And when they go outside their universe to define it, then it can be written off via death of the author
peak escarp
they can define it using whatever medium they want
vocal marsh
But…Michael Chu is on the Overwatch team?
steady flax
I.e. JK Rowling with Dumbledore before Fantastic Beasts
peak escarp
death of the author is not about random tweets
vocal marsh
And the authors work with the Overwatch team
rare trail
And when they go outside their universe to define it, then it can be written off...
if its not contradicted by a previous work then its canon
steady flax
But…Michael Chu is on the Overwatch team?
So he has every opportunity to define the lore in his works and not via tweets when he fails to do so in the works
peak escarp
death of the author is about intentions not facts
rare trail
if rowling said dumbledore is gay on twitter and he doesnt say "im not gay" in the books then he is gay
wooden sleet
^
steady flax
death of the author is about *intentions* not facts
Author intended to make Winston a monkey. If he looked and acted like a penguin, then he'd be wrong
rare trail
Author intended to make Winston a monkey. If he looked and acted like a penguin,...
hes not a monkey!
peak escarp
if the author intended to make Winston a monkey, they'd make him a monkey
there would be no interpretation
your example is terrible
steady flax
if rowling said dumbledore is gay on twitter and he doesnt say "im not gay" in t...
Except he's shown to have small romantic exchanges with female characters in the books. So factually no he isn't
steady flax
your example is terrible
My example is meant to be extreme so as to make the principal clear and the fact that you're legitimately arguing it is concerning
rare trail
Except he's shown to have small romantic exchanges with female characters in the...
when is he shown to do that? and sexuality can change
steady flax
when is he shown to do that? and sexuality can change
When he dances with McGonagall. Can't remember the book. But it was the only thing in the book series that gave any sort of suggestion whatsoever
steady flax
you don't understand the principle
You conflate intent with facts in a failed attempt to disprove me but sure
peak escarp
steady flax
Like can we agree if a writer for Overwatch tweeted out that Winston is a penguin that they would be wrong
Can we agree on that
rare trail
When he dances with McGonagall. Can't remember the book. But it was the only thi...
dancing with someone isnt necessarily romantic although i would have to read that part of the book
peak escarp
of course that would be wrong
rare trail
Like can we agree if a writer for Overwatch tweeted out that Winston is a pengui...
yes because it is directly contradicted in a previous work
steady flax
dancing with someone isnt necessarily romantic although i would have to read tha...
Correct, and given that it's the only example of such a thing that comes close to being verifiable, it's all we can go on within the books if we wish to look into it purely from what's on the page
steady flax
of course that would be wrong
So the author is not always right when they make claims unsupported by their works
peak escarp
I have a degree in English, I know what I'm talking about
steady flax
Sorry to see you've wasted your money
rare trail
lets say michael chu says "winston is aro/ace" in a tweet then like in the lore hes aro/ace unless hes been shown to have romantic feelings in the past
steady flax
And if we're gonna go that route then yeah I've been studying writing and literature literally my whole life so
rare trail
in which case it can either be a retcon or not canon
steady flax
The fuck is aro/ace
rare trail
aromantic asexual
steady flax
Oh gotcha
wooden sleet
not romantic in any form
steady flax
Well that would seem to be supported by the current canon
So at that point I'd just wonder why he would feel the need to make the claim
But yeah
steady flax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author
Wiki isn't a legitimate source 😎
rare trail
if michael said he was gay i would also believe him
steady flax
That would be a strange thing to claim
rare trail
it would still be canon though
steady flax
Wouldn't have any supporting evidence in the canon to my knowledge
rare trail
the supporting evidence would be the tweet
peak escarp
well I'd cite the original essay but I don't speak French
steady flax
If the author is gonna make a claim about their work, their work should probably back up said claim. Otherwise they're just admitting to a failure in their writing process
Or an issue in development
Either way
peak escarp
it's usually the second one
rare trail
If the author is gonna make a claim about their work, their work should probably...
not mentioning every single detail isnt a failure in the writing process
peak escarp
or there just wasn't a natural way to bring it up
steady flax
it's usually the second one
When it comes to games, sadly yeah
peak escarp
or they are giving context to something that was unclear
rare trail
like if someone wants to add an extra detail in their work and decide to post it on twitter instead then like its canon
steady flax
not mentioning every single detail isnt a failure in the writing process
No but failing to mention details they care enough about to try and make official claims on is absolutely a failure on their part
steady flax
or they are giving context to something that was unclear
Again, an issue with the writing
steady flax
like if someone wants to add an extra detail in their work and decide to post it...
Nope. Although an extended edition can help. I.e. the Lord of the Rings films
ivory garnet
many writers with continuing stories do that
peak escarp
you don't need to ping me with every reply
steady flax
many writers with continuing stories do that
Yep and it should be criticized whenever it happens
I'm just making it clear what I'm responding to
ivory garnet
Yep and it should be criticized whenever it happens
no because if its not relevant to the story, why should it be added
rare trail
Nope. Although an extended edition can help. I.e. the Lord of the Rings films
it is canon if an official source says it is unless contradicted by a more official source like a novel origin bio
steady flax
no because if its not relevant to the story, why should it be added
Good question
steady flax
it is canon if an official source says it is unless contradicted by a more offic...
Why? It's outside the realm of the work
rare trail
like in the reinhardt short it wouldnt be necessary to mention like what reins armor is made of but its a cool detail to post on twitter
rare trail
Why? It's outside the realm of the work
because theyre the author theyre the ones who get to decide
steady flax
Like I'm sorry but if everything the author says outside their work is canon to their work unless directly contradicted then any author can get away with releasing any butchered story
peak escarp
the "realm of the work" is more than just the game
it spans comics, novels, animated shorts, and yes, sometimes even tweets
rare trail
Like I'm sorry but if everything the author says outside their work is canon to ...
uh no? letting authors add extra detail isnt gonna make stories worse what are you talking about
ivory garnet
not every detail will fit into media, thats why we get some on twitter
candid saffron
Is soldier actually gay?
peak escarp
yes
candid saffron
💀
steady flax
it spans comics, novels, animated shorts, and yes, sometimes even tweets
If tweets are canon then it's game over for writing
peak escarp
why?
steady flax
I don't care if he is gay but how is looking at a photo with an old friend gay exactly
Like if he is then awesome but I would hope they could handle that kinda character work with a bit more
Well, talent
rare trail
I don't care if he is gay but how is looking at a photo with an old friend gay e...
it isnt this is a picture from bastet
bastet explains him being gay
steady flax
why?
Then literally anything can be canon post-release of any work and nothing that's put from pen to paper matters anymore
rare trail
spam filter rip
steady flax
Why get invested in a work when the author can just be like "nah nevermind actually"
rare trail
an author can do that anytime
steady flax
bastet explains him being gay
Oh okay that I didn't know. I thought he was saying literally just that image confirmed it or something
steady flax
an author can do that anytime
Hence why death of the author should be used to safeguard canon material from the author's outside decision making
candid saffron
Who gave soldier a goofy hair cut
steady flax
Otherwise writing no longer matters
rare trail
like if they released a one page comic tomorrow where winston wakes up on the colony and says hey what a weird dream and no more overwatch lore
steady flax
like if they released a one page comic tomorrow where winston wakes up on the co...
And that would be stupid
rare trail
Hence why death of the author should be used to safeguard canon material from th...
what is canon if its not what the author says
rare trail
And that would be stupid
it would be canon
but if they did it on twitter it wouldnt be because????
steady flax
it would be canon
Correct. And stupid
steady flax
but if they did it on twitter it wouldnt be because????
It wouldn't be canon, but it would still be stupid
steady flax
what is canon if its not what the author says
What the author publishes within their work
peak escarp
why is it only canon if it's within their work?
rare trail
What the author publishes within their work
and twitter doesnt count as being published?
steady flax
why is it only canon if it's within their work?
Because that's how writing works
rare trail
like some of the news reports are just from twitter right?
peak escarp
canon info is often found in supplementary media, like artbooks
steady flax
and twitter doesnt count as being published?
It's a publication outside the original work
steady flax
canon info is often found in supplementary media, like artbooks
It can vary but yes
rare trail
It's a publication outside the original work
does a comic count?
ivory garnet
twitter is a media where overwatch lore is gave out by the narrative team, therefore its still a piece of media telling a story
steady flax
does a comic count?
To the comics yes
rare trail
To the comics yes
comics arent a part of the original work
steady flax
twitter is a media where overwatch lore is gave out by the narrative team, there...
That is so weak
rare trail
That is *so weak*
not an argument
steady flax
comics arent a part of the original work
And Marvel comic book movies aren't canon to marvel comics but the movies still have their own canon
rare trail
And Marvel comic book movies aren't canon to marvel comics but the movies still ...
the comics are a part of overwatch lore because the authors said so
so are the tweets
ivory garnet
That is *so weak*
horrible argument, but not every detail is important enough to be released in a comic/novel/short story
would you count cinematics and origin stories to be canon since it isnt hand written material?
steady flax
horrible argument, but not every detail is important enough to be released in a ...
You're right, saying "they said so" instead of showing me an actual citation from the work is a horrible argument
steady flax
steady flax
Good. That would be a very weak way of coping for failures in their writing process
peak escarp
and most of what Micheal Chu said on twitter is either verified by the game or is meaningless trivia about favourite foods or something
steady flax
Good job on them
steady flax
would you count cinematics and origin stories to be canon since it isnt hand wri...
They literally have to write for those though I don't know what this means
ivory garnet
they also had to write on twitter, so whats the issue
steady flax
B r u h
I'll hand it to you your ability to form complete non-arguments is impressive
That's some grandmaster boolin
Anyways, I'm curious about Ramatra. Like I said I only just got back into the game. What's his deal exactly
peak escarp
he is a Ravager - one of the units made by Anubis during the omnic crisis to serve as lieutenants
post-crisis, he awakened, saw humans killing omnics and went to the Shambali to find answers
steady flax
Oh shit finally some more on the Anubis lore. That's an old pull
peak escarp
but eventually, he realized the Shambali's way wasn't working, so he left to fight back against humanity in his own way, waking up an old omnium and mass producing drones for war
his first attack on King's Row failed spectacularly, so he ended up seeking out Doomfist for an alliance... which had to be put on hold for 6 years because Doomfist got arrested
worthy rose
why is widomakers skin purple was she born like that or just paint??
peak escarp
but now Doomfist is out and their war can finally begin
rare trail
why is widomakers skin purple was she born like that or just paint??
she got a surgery to make her heart go slower
peak escarp
why is widomakers skin purple was she born like that or just paint??
her heart was slowed to make her a better sniper, which turned her skin blue from less oxygen
worthy rose
ok thank you i just thought it was paint lol
steady flax
but now Doomfist is out and their war can finally begin
Oh shit. Let's hope it goes somewhere
peak escarp
that's basically the setup for the PvE
or at least for the first arc of it
Zero Hour was the first attack
steady flax
My big curiosity is what they plan to do with Sombra
I mean I have several but that's been an interesting plot point they've kept close to their chest
peak escarp
we at least know she appears in the story
steady flax
Nice
peak escarp
steady flax
Right right
peak escarp
the OW2 announcement cinematic
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
it was theorized for a long time, but confirmed when Ramattra was announced as a hero
steady flax
i should probably uhhh go watch his cinematic
Or animation or whatever it is
So Null is with Talon
Or is Doomfist not with them anymore
peak escarp
Null Sector and Talon are allied
steady flax
Okay gotcha
peak escarp
we see them make that alliance at the end of the Storm Rising mission
steady flax
Oh man I totally forgot about the ending of the mission
peak escarp
steady flax
That's when Ramatra met Doomfist right?
peak escarp
yeah
steady flax
Or well, convened with him
Okay cool thank you it's been weird trynna catch up.
I used to be such a lore buff
But yeah. Blizzard stuff. Thankfully they seem to be working at making amends
So I figured why not and got back into it
gilded lake
kaboom?
gilded lake
GET IN THERE
: ( whyyyyyyy
light adder
if lucio's music can heal are his clubs secretly hospitals 🤔
rare trail
it cant
peak escarp
his music can't heal
peak escarp
his music helps people fight in rhythm
which is effectively a "speed boost"
and he does have the sound barrier from his weapon
ivory garnet
morale boost i’d say, not speed
worthy rose
Hello
candid orchid
soldjier really needs a buff
soldga just needs to be able to heal like soldier
i insta lock her everyfight and each time when im spraying into zaryas bubbles until shes fully charged she just beams me
i should be able to heal the same thing happens with i play soldjar into genji deflect they just kill me
like what am i supposed to do?
ivory garnet
wrong channel, try #overwatch-serious
ivory garnet
try a pharmacy
ivory garnet
bro is junkrat
peak escarp
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
edgy kelp
so if PVE is introduced in the next season which is less than a month away, is there a story line happening in that? and if so thats all canon right?
sleek thunder
Doom CONQUERS ALL FIST ON✊
ivory garnet
so if PVE is introduced in the next season which is less than a month away, is t...
pve is canon yes
the events that take place are canon
edgy kelp
the pve should be covering lore that hasn't already been released (aside from maybe sneak peaks) right?
edgy kelp
ooo sounds epic
ivory garnet
they might rerelease retribution kings row uprising and storm rising
unlikely
ivory garnet
the pve should be covering lore that hasn't already been released (aside from ma...
PvE is overwatch vs null sector
with hints on Talon
its likely the PvE is ever-evolving, so more arcs will follow suite
silent schooner
for some reason i think it’s really funny that ramattra and doomfist like ants and starlings respectively
vocal marsh
Also Genji triceratops
karmic turret
Yoooooo overwatch is in 2077
peak escarp
it might be
karmic turret
If we're under the assumption, all the overwatch 1 cinematics and stuff happened in 2076 (which is also fun considering soldier) then ow2 stuff being 2077 is pretty cool
Also it's just a cool number
atomic pier
Is it me or did they make Brigette look a lot less pretty in the cinematic trailer? I feel like the Honour and Glory film, she looks more like the Brig I see in the game. Idk why the trailer Brig looks different? Is it the pudgier nose? The eyes? 🤔
peak escarp
doesn't look much different to me
also those are two very different angles so it's hard to compare
ivory garnet
and different lighting
north walrus
is echo a clone of dr mina liao
ivory garnet
no
north walrus
ok thx
hollow pewter
limpid agate
Wrong channel
wind portal
Assuming the voice-lines between Echo and Brigitte are lore accurate, how much help did Torbjorn help with developing Echo?
wind portal
we know Torb is smart with omnic designs since he upgraded bastion and such, so I wouldn't be surprised if he knew the advanced tech
vapid ledge
Is there any info why Reinhardt got forced into retirement?
peak escarp
nothing official
lots of theories though
including:
- he led a mission that went wrong
- his years of charging into things have left him with head trauma (similar to football players)
- he took the fall for someone else
limpid agate
We know when
It was between Uprising and Storm Rising
Based on a Sombra interaction, its not the middle one
peak escarp
my guess is that he led a mission that ended badly, and the higher-ups put him out to pasture
wind portal
either that or he took the blame for someone else, though my personal opinion is that someone went rogue on him during a mission and since he was the leader he was the one that was held accountable
gilded lake
beep boop
keen summit
either that or he took the blame for someone else, though my personal opinion is...
possible
but its just all speculation
i think in pve we'll hear about it tbh
wind portal
We need a confirmation I am DYING to hear what actually happened
viscid flame
Rein's beard grew insanely fast, wasn't his "I must answer the call, always" trailer only a month or two, in-universe before zero hero?
He's got so much hair now he has to tie it up
ivory garnet
zero hour happens a year after Honor and Glory
sour trout
Is it me or did they make Brigette look a lot less pretty in the cinematic trail...
i think it’s the angle of the camera
keen summit
we’ll probably find out when this happens
Yeah
Fits really well
As if soj is mad at him for returning him getting annoyed back and soj just scoffing
silent schooner
i wonder if ramattra has anyone else helping him lead null sector or if he’s just like the Doomfist or Morrison of the whole thing
viscid flame
I remember his short story initially had him have a bunch of omnic friends, but they left after the whole null sector London thing
thick elk
Is it true that if Mercy takes offer suit, she dies
rare trail
Is it true that if Mercy takes offer suit, she dies
i dont think so
i might have to reread valkyrie
thick elk
Cuz she had rhat suit on forever
rare trail
not forever
thick elk
I haven't seen her take it off once
rare trail
dr ziegler skin is canon
merry mason
Is it true that if Mercy takes offer suit, she dies
no, she's shown outside of it. are you thinking of tracer?
rare trail
tracer can take her suit off
thick elk
Does she not age in her suit
merry mason
i don't think the suit itself is said to improve her health in any way.
rare trail
this skin is also canon so
ivory garnet
Does she not age in her suit
you mean tracer?
thick elk
this skin is also canon so
😍
ivory garnet
she just has to have it nearby
ivory garnet
also i thought tracer still aged
she does
rare trail
A longtime family friend of Torbjörn Lindholm, Ziegler had pioneered a breakthrough in the field of applied nanobiology at a young age. The technology radically improved the treatment of life-threatening illnesses and injuries. It was this expertise that attracted the attention of Overwatch.
she uses this medicine
merry mason
Where does her healing weapon come from
she invented it
thick elk
Right cs she has that degree in medic right
merry mason
yes she's a doctor of course she has a degree
rare trail
is that mentioned anywhere?
merry mason
i remember someone saying she graduated at like 16, but I don't remember if that was just speculation
but anyway she has the Dr. honorific
merry mason
it can be assumed on the fact that she is a trained physician and researcher.
rare trail
she probably does given people call her doctor
i dont think its a super fair assumption given she didnt grow up in the best of circumstances
would be weird to give someone without a medical degree the position of head medical research but maybe her inventing the nanotech healing stuff was enough
merry mason
considering her genius she could have gotten a full scholarship
rare trail
is there any place to find all voice lines and interactions for a character?
merry mason
it's pretty tough to find every last one of them
peak escarp
in OW1 she was 1 month old
ivory garnet
so 1 year in OW2?
peak escarp
she's a robot
rare trail
why is there so much misinformation about mercy's aging
peak escarp
because people like to make assumptions
and won't listen to the writers when they say Mercy does age
there's also the mistaken belief that Mercy was one of the original Overwatch members and has to be 60+
rare trail
it was on a video about the age of all the characters
the ages didnt really make sense though
peak escarp
link?
peak escarp
aside from the fact that we don't have confirmed ages for JQ, Kiriko, Sojourn or Ramattra, those ages are correct
rare trail
bastions 30?
rare trail
a few people in the comics were talking about how junkrat and roadhog ages didnt line up
peak escarp
we also don't have a confirmed age for Soldier, but at SDCC 2016 the devs said he is a year younger than Reaper
so he'd be 57
Kiriko is probably closer to 25
Junker Queen is around 35
Sojourn is around 50-55
Ramattra can't be older than 30
peak escarp
a few people in the comics were talking about how junkrat and roadhog ages didnt...
???
why wouldn't they line up?
rare trail
something about how junkrat hired roadhog as a bodyguard
peak escarp
what does that have to do with their ages?
they don't have to be the same age for Junkrat to hire Roadhog as a bodyguard
also, him hiring Roadie as a bodyguard happened recently
rare trail
why does hog have the mask?
peak escarp
it's never explained
Adapting to his environment, he donned a mask and took to the broken highways of the Outback on his ramshackle chopper. Little by little, his humanity was forgotten. The last vestiges of Mako faded away and the ruthless killer Roadhog was born.
probably to make it easier to be a ruthless killer
rare trail
why does he have like lung cancer or whatever
rare trail
and what is take a breather?
limpid agate
!!wiki Hogdrogen
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hogdrogen
rare trail
so its like medicine?
peak escarp
basically
rare trail
roadhog is really weak in lore right?
peak escarp
oh yeah, and best estimates put Echo's age at 10-15
ivory garnet
Orisa is youngest, Sigma oldest?
peak escarp
correct
rare trail
why does reaper call sigma an old man despite them being like 5 yeras apart
solar hedge
pastel gust
winston dies at the end of the lore
rare trail
?
limpid agate
!!shitposting @pastel gust
twilit nacelleBOT
@pastel gust Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
pastel gust
that's messed up
gray kayak
Heed the warning.
pastel gust
it anit that serious bro
rare trail
me when the mods moderate
peak escarp
this channel is for serious discussion
if you make a claim, it better have something to back it up
pastel gust
i didnt have a chance
limpid agate
There is nothing to back it up
rose fiber
From a noob can anyone tell me the story of reaper
vocal marsh
-Gabriel Reyes
-Joined Overwatch as second in command
-Leader of Blackwatch
-Blackwatch shut down
-Disagreement with Soldier/Jack
-Blew up OW base in Switzerland
-Moira saves him and he becomes reaper where his cell constantly die and regenerate
-Joins Talon in inner counsel
Very simplified
pastel gust
Wrong channel
proper mango
Wrong channel
appreciate u
pastel gust
love you
cosmic dawn
Ana is actually a 21 year old milf trapped in a granny's body
pastel gust
There is nothing to back it up
not that you know of but ok
pastel gust
google it
limpid agate
!!shitposting @cosmic dawn
twilit nacelleBOT
@cosmic dawn Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
pastel gust
think what you want
pastel gust
alright calm down
cosmic dawn
Lol its a theory bro
cosmic dawn
Yeah the evidence is on the hub
past copper
There’s a simple solution to this
If you can’t prove anything you say then shut your pie hole
And telling people to check somewhere is literally your way of saying you don’t know
wind portal
is there anything on null sector omnics invading junkertown? there's a voice line between Junker queen and Ramattra that might've suggested an attack in the past
past copper
Unless Junkrat’s “treasure” is something Ramattra needs I highly doubt it
wind portal
or Mako doing something
past copper
That makes no sense. The Junkers haven’t had any kinda interaction with Ramattra
We don’t even know where they are right now
wind portal
maybe not directly but they could've stolen something in a heist that was important to them
past copper
Again. Doubtful. Ramattra is hiding out somewhere frozen building his army from an old omnium
And most of his resources now are more than likely coming from Talon
Whom the Junkers have never had any interaction with either
peak escarp
what's the interaction?
wind portal
"I hear you like to prey on omnics, try me."
"No Thanks, fought a bunch of ya before, you're a bit gimmicky, no offence."
"Gimmicky?"
"I said No Offence!"
past copper
That… interaction doesn’t mean anything tbh
limpid agate
Its a class of Omnic, like the Bastions or Idinas
They were deployed around the world during the crisis
I would assume there were remnants among the Feral Omnics in the outback
rare trail
whats an idina?