based on the kanji used, her name means "mist child"
#lore-discussion
peak escarp
quartz trellis
based on the kanji used, her name means "mist child"
oh kanji
i think i looked at hirugana
peak escarp
the kanji for Kiriko is 霧子
molten shore
So she could be related to genji and hanzo?
peak escarp
So she could be related to genji and hanzo?
not blood related
limpid agate
So she could be related to genji and hanzo?
Her mother was the swordmaster that trained Genji and Hanzo
molten shore
That's awesome
So maybe when genji was younger he played with her?
Is she Denjis age
iron plume
So maybe when genji was younger he played with her?
Yes, the devs have said as much recently
So Kiriko has a history with the Shimada clan, and got up to trouble with young Genji at the Hanamura arcades
https://www.polygon.com/23353098/overwatch-2-new-hero-kiriko-support
iron plume
Is she Denjis age
around that or a bit younger
molten shore
Yes, the devs have said as much recently
> So Kiriko has a history with the Shim...
Yes I love that
That's what u expected between them
limpid agate
Is she Denjis age
Genji is the Overwatch hero
Denji is Chainsaw man
We dont know her age yet though
But she does know Genji
past copper
Anyone else curious to know why Kiriko’s outfit changes while what looks like a match?
cosmic crest
Probably just multiple skins
past copper
The ability reveal trailer wouldn’t show off multiple skins
The only skin revealed for Kiriko is that dope looking cyberpunk one
peak escarp
yeah just skins
cosmic crest
The ability reveal trailer wouldn’t show off multiple skins
Why? Admitedly they don't usually do that, but there is nothing saying they can't.
And there isn't really any other explanation.
molten shore
Genji is the Overwatch hero
I call everyone that rhymes with that denji
dusk yoke
Anyone else curious to know why Kiriko’s outfit changes while what looks like a ...
I noticed that- some points she was wearing a jacket, the others a dress
peak escarp
the jacket version is probably one of her base legendaries
worthy rose
you know on numbami that small black girl on the billboards you think she will ever be added it’s like a kid
as a hero
peak escarp
that's Efi
worthy rose
yeah
limpid agate
Efi built Orisa
peak escarp
she created Orisa
limpid agate
She has a novel
worthy rose
ohhhhh
worthy rose
ok
past copper
Seeing the skins, I see even Overwatch has reached a cyberpunk fandom
But I kinda figured that when the heroes new looks were first revealed
dreamy epoch
i think the BP is just gonna be for cool cosmetics
like the last archives event barely had any "archives" skins didn't it
they're probably trying to capitalize on live service with cool cosmetics
and saving the lore stuff for events which is gonna be archives v4 haha 🙃
i'm actually not sure about the lore of junkenstein's
my initial thought was it was an old-timey movie that exists in the OW universe but that was me guessing
peak escarp
it's a story being told by Reinhardt at a halloween party
there isn't going to be another Archives event
dreamy epoch
archives is dead 🦀
lone stag
True
devout crane
Does kiriko use magic
peak escarp
no
cosmic crest
There is no magic in Overwatch
compact cobalt
How old would efi be in overwatch 2?
peak escarp
we don't know how long of a timeskip there is between OW1 and OW2
peak escarp
gameplay abilities are not canon
compact cobalt
we don't know how long of a timeskip there is between OW1 and OW2
Rough estimate
compact cobalt
Ok
red galleon
1 year
cosmic crest
gameplay abilities are not canon
Well, they are generally
cosmic crest
Most are
peak escarp
they are because we've seen them in the lore
some even work differently in the lore vs in the game
cosmic crest
I think those are the exceptions
Like Mercy Rez for example
But even then, it's still a thing
peak escarp
Zenyatta's harmony and discord orb don't function like they do in the game
they're just meditation orbs
cosmic crest
He does heal people. We don't know how it works, but he can do it.
cosmic crest
We know he can heal people because it's been brought up multiple times in interactions with Mercy.
What do you think they were reffering to if not harmony orb?
past copper
Kiriko doesn’t have magic. If I had to guess lore to her abilities
The fox and gates are hardlight that, only going by guessing so take it with a grain of salt, probably a projection from her eyes. Idk
Her kunai probably teleport her like Minato from Naruto
peak escarp
We know he can heal people because it's been brought up multiple times in intera...
could be psychological healing
cosmic crest
That's not what they were talking about
peak escarp
how do you know?
cosmic crest
Because that would make no sense
peak escarp
or maybe he has some other way of healing without any kind of tool
just using "omnic energy" or whatever
cosmic crest
That's probably what the orb is
peak escarp
we see orbs in the short story Stone by Stone
Zenyatta gives Symmetra one to meditate over
cosmic crest
Could be different orbs
Or the same ones. Maybe he uses them both for meditation and as a device for healing
past copper
Or maybe his orbs don’t heal physically. He’s a monk. They’re more known to heal people mentally
Maybe his orbs just chime, but don’t heal. I mean, think about it. Not all the supports could actually be supports in the sense of healing
cosmic crest
But we know that he can can heal physically from the interactions
past copper
Okay where has he healed physically? In the lore? The only novel he showed up in and the only comic he had a cameo
peak escarp
peak escarp
Okay where has he healed physically? In the lore? The only novel he showed up in...
his appearance in Stone By Stone wasn't a cameo
past copper
his appearance in Stone By Stone wasn't a cameo
Not that. I was talking about the Christmas one
peak escarp
you said novel
past copper
I know he was in Stone By Stone
cosmic crest
We haven't seen him do it the lore.
Interactions are only hypothetical, but the fact that these interactions exist at all indicate that he can heal, otherwise they are just spouting nonsense to confuse us.
peak escarp
he hasn't been in a novel
past copper
Short story then
peak escarp
"The only novel he showed up in and the only comic he had a cameo"
I thought you were saying both appearances were cameos
past copper
Look, Zenyatta has only had two appearances in the lore. The comic Reflections and the short story Stone by Stone. Not counting the Junkerstein one since that’s non-canon to the lore
limpid agate
That wasnt Zenyatta
peak escarp
we know he can heal - we just don't know the nature of that healing
limpid agate
That was a fictional character that looks like Zenyatta
peak escarp
or how he does it
past copper
Either way, Zen can’t possibly heal in the same sense as his orbs. It make more sense to say he heals mentally. That’s how he “healed” Genji after all
peak escarp
it's obviously not medical healing, or Mercy wouldn't be confused
past copper
Heck, by logical thought, Brig shouldn’t be a healer the way she is in game. She’d more likely have to sit people down to patch them up like did for Rein
peak escarp
that's what she does
she provides first-aid for Rein
Lucio is worse - nothing in his lore indicates healing at all
past copper
Exactly. Because I completely doubt she can throw out healing for her friends or heal when she damages enemies
And yes, you’re right about Lúcio
peak escarp
this was my point from the beginning
abilities in the game aren't accurate representation of abilities in lore
past copper
Exactly. If we see what they do in the Story Mode, then we’ll know for sure, but that is a long way from right now. Next year actually
peak escarp
Support Heroes in order of healing/medical skill
Mercy: MD, surgeon, pioneer of biotic medicine
Baptiste: works in a medical clinic, has gear with biotic healing
Zenyatta: can heal, healing method unknown
Moira: Geneticist
Brigitte: knows first aid
Ana: shoots biotic darts
Lucio: no healing
and we don't know enough about Kiriko yet
past copper
You should probably add others with healing abilities in that list
peak escarp
such as?
past copper
Because I think Soldier can heal with his ability. Possibly
peak escarp
he does have a biotic canister
past copper
Idk bout Hog, but I don’t think we can rule out he possibly does take a canister to “heal” himself
past copper
Technically, I guess Reaper heals himself. In a very painful way
peak escarp
Mei has frozen herself, but it seemed to hurt more than heal
past copper
There is that too
peak escarp
Speaking of which, I've been here in the Yukon, near Mount Logan, field-testing my new gear. I've recovered from some early "issues" (my arm still hurts from being frozen solid a few days ago… so embarrassing!), and everything is in good working order. Look on the bright side: now that I've tested the equipment on myself, I'm not worried about using it on all the cute animals I want to study!
formal pollen
Yall do realize that magic and or supernatural powers do absolutely exist within the overwatch universe, aka genji and hanzo's dragons, same with kiriko's healing talismans are probably infused with the supernatural powers of her fox spirit
peak escarp
except the devs have confirmed that none of that is magic
therefore it must be some kind of tech
formal pollen
Well it is probably some supernatural powers
tall sleet
I think they’ve said it’s some hard light projection type of thing but honestly I’d just rather have magic bahahaha
formal pollen
Cause apparently only a person with Shimada blood can use the dragons
peak escarp
there's plenty of ways to explain that that aren't magic
the most obvious one being that Hanzo is very dramatic and is exaggerating
formal pollen
I said magic or supernatural cause we don't know how yet
peak escarp
magic and supernatural are the same thing
peak escarp
Overwatch is supposed to be set on our Earth in the near future
formal pollen
Yeah I know but just using the kind of thoughts on what magic is can vary
So they can absolutely disprove that its not some weird wizard magic stupidity, but it could plausibly be some supernatural factor
limpid agate
Yall do realize that magic and or supernatural powers do absolutely exist within...
Hanzo's Dragons were specifically used as the example to say there is no magic in Overwatch
past copper
Hardlight. Genji’s dragon comes from his blade. Hanzo’s from his tattoo (which could be an example of electronic tattoos. Look it up electronic tattoos) and arrow tip. And it looks like Kiriko’s hardlight or hologram comes from her eyes
Mostly basing that last one on her eyes glowing and showing a straight path
rose forge
magic
opaque tundra
Wrong: science
rose forge
magic
devout crane
Honestly if blizzard introduced magic in ow it could open doors to many new abilities
rotund ermine
Practically all magic can be negated with “hardlight” or “Omnic energy” at this point
Vague story details rule
cosmic crest
Honestly if blizzard introduced magic in ow it could open doors to many new abil...
Magic is not on theme with the OW universe. The whole point of the universe is that it's supposed to represent humanity and human culture. Magic is an otherworldly concept and counter intuitive to that goal.
iron plume
In terms of "realistic" explanation, it might as well be magic
But it's not the theme of the universe
It's advanced technology that represents the achievements of "our" optimistic future
wild dirge
but like the shimada dragons, how is that tech
wild dirge
wdym star wars, i mean they have the force if thats what u mean
peak escarp
the Force is just magic by a different name
iron plume
but like the shimada dragons, how is that tech
It's not realistic tech
But in-universe it's tech
we're not getting a scientific explanation if that's what you're getting at
zenith ridge
The force isn't magic
iron plume
yep
in-universe it's explained
It's a stupid explanation, which is why we're probably not getting one in overwatch, or at least I hope we don't
But it's scientifically sound in-universe anyway
digital forum
I think there could be spirits but they dont have a physical form so they use hardlight to give them form
peak escarp
why does it matter what they are
rose forge
idk man, it’s lore and it’s what they enjoy
frail snow
Netflix show about the Shimada and Hashimoto clan idea (copy and paste from another post I made): Show Kiriko origin and dad disappearing.
Shimada brothers filling the void the father left while Kiriko mom trains the three of them.
Shimada father dies, everyone is sad. Timeskip.
Genji doesn’t take up his duties and out of anger for his father’s death barely affecting Genji’s decision making in his shimada responsibilities,Hanzo duels him and almost kills him. Genji gets rescued and goes away from the story for a while.
Kiriko becomes sad seeing the shimadas crumble and the hashimoto coming in.
Story continues with Kiriko protecting Kanezaka from the hashimoto. Then we go to Hanzo POV. Mourning brother and the events of Dragons cinematic take place.
Overwatch returns. Genji comes back with the new Overwatch to aid Kiriko.
limpid agate
Her dad didnt disappear though
grand wedge
Toshiro got kidnapped & held hostage after the Shimada clan fell.
true ginkgo
Lore
peak escarp
she has a comic and a short story
mystic wing
Sym had potential. Where did that go?
true ginkgo
Wrecking ball lore perhaps
Ik there’s like
Wait
What is there
peak escarp
everything up to now has been set-up for the PvE
the PvE will move the story forward
past copper
Anyone else notice in those skin reveals? Pharah’s skin kinda looked like Cleatus the football robot
I don’t think Blizzard would use that though
peak escarp
it looked like a Warhammer 40K black templar
past copper
That crossed my mind too
peak escarp
he hates Winston for leaving him behind on the moon
or trying to leave him behind, anyway
past copper
Ngl lie, those skins Winston and Sojourn are getting look dope. Those military styles
Anyone else immediately think of guerrilla warfare when they saw Winston?
peak escarp
pretty sure that's the inspiration
past copper
I’ll say this. The skins are way more dope than in OW1. Especially that sick Genji skin
digital sky
does Kiriko's fox have a canon name
peak escarp
nope
digital sky
okay, wake me when their name is confirmed
digital sky
C'mon, Junker Queen's guns get names but not the fox?
opal nexus
kiriko seems pretty endearing to the fox tho
surely it has a name
heck theyll probably give the dragons names eventually
peak escarp
call it Kitsune-sama
opal nexus
ye that works
past copper
And I’m sure Hanzo loves to retell the tale of the dragon brothers, but that doesn’t mean he’ll name his dragon
Junker Queen is just being fun by naming her knife
opal nexus
cant wait for their names to just be dragon of the north wind and dragon of the south wind 
past copper
I’m also sure Torbjörn, Junkrat, and Hog love their toys, but I doubt they name them
Though, you’d think they would
peak escarp
cant wait for their names to just be dragon of the north wind and dragon of the ...
Kitakaze-no-ryuu and Minamikaze-no-ryuu
opal nexus
yakuza game titles be like
digital sky
And I’m sure Hanzo loves to retell the tale of the dragon brothers, but that doe...
I'm sure with the dragons, since they're basically gods, and have been around for a long time, they would've already had names
peak escarp
I'm sure with the dragons, since they're basically gods, and have been around fo...
they're not literal dragons
digital sky
I know, but...
peak escarp
they could be named after the mythological dragons
but so far, they have not been named except by the community
past copper
Love this skin for Sojourn, but I cannot help being reminded of the movie Small Soldiers
digital sky
never watched it
peak escarp
oh yeah it kinda does
past copper
It was a decent movie
Like Toy Story trying to kill each other
You can see the similarities. I wonder if that was the inspiration
serene harness
Lore
pastel carbon
THE LORE
quiet vine
far right one's face looks like sigma
molten shore
Is there an actual reason to why Cassidy is missing his arm because all I remember is a voice line between him and torb
cosmic crest
We don't know how he lost his it yet
mellow canopy
Is there an actual reason to why Cassidy is missing his arm because all I rememb...
idk blizzard just has an obsession with robot arms and legs
could very well just be for the sake of the design
limpid agate
It is because of design
Cassidy wasnt designed for Overwatch originally
Was originally supposed to be a character for Starcraft
Prospector Logann
dreamy epoch
thank goodness he didn't get put into starcraft
molten shore
I like to think Ashe and Bob had something to do with it
grand wedge
they don't, it's been confirmed
molten shore
Mainly because I think that would be cool and because in the video from them she said she would have Bob rip off his arm
clear jewel
You can see the similarities. I wonder if that was the inspiration
Amazing movie
keen summit
Was originally supposed to be a character for Starcraft
This looks so much better than his actual design
keen summit
It’s literally a hardlight projection
Is it confirmed it is cuz she seems pretty mythological to me
Had this convo before tbf
keen summit
Yea but they couldve just retconned it. Everything bout kiriko is spiritual. Healing ofuda, protection bells. The ofuda just, fly and follow people and then heal
limpid agate
We need to wait to actually get some story
Because we have nothing but a leaked contextless video
limpid agate
We dont have descriptions
peak escarp
the abilities in the game don't matter
keen summit
And in the trailer the healing ofuda also was just paper that could heal
On her cinematic
limpid agate
Again
We need to wait to actually get some story
Origin short and Bio can help clear a lot up
keen summit
Yeah i agree
But they really gotta reach here cuz also with the kitsune shrine and teleports and everything without any place we can see any tech for hardlight on her
peak escarp
in the game, Lucio can heal using music
in the lore, his music only speed boosts, no healing
keen summit
in the lore, his music only speed boosts, no healing
i know
but in the lore aka her cinematic
peak escarp
we haven't seen her cinematic yet
keen summit
she can just teleport all of the time and heals with placing paper on someone
peak escarp
not officially
peak escarp
it's best not to until it's officially released
limpid agate
Sombra can also teleport and do weird shit just by touching it
We know through her bio that its because of science and technology
Tracer in the first trailer could literally teleport
We know from later lore its chronal disassociation
keen summit
Sombra can also teleport and do weird shit just by touching it
but thats still shown on her body, you can see on her hands that she uses that and the translocator has tech for it
limpid agate
Sigma can literally float
And move objects with his mind
And that's still explained as science and not magic
keen summit
i know
but im trying to even check on her design for any tech based stuff to explain it
limpid agate
There is no tech based stuff on Sigma's design
keen summit
and they seem to try to hint to it being spiritual with kiriko cuz shrine maiden, constantly being mentioned bout her connections to it all and that kind of stuff, course could be a metaphorical thing but still
keen summit
There is no tech based stuff on Sigma's design
his arm with the barrier already explains his barrier
not much sure
limpid agate
Im not talking about the barrier
keen summit
yeah the gravity stuff
but even then you see wiring to his chest and back
which could be how his suit is powered and he can officially control gravity with the help of his suit
cuz its never shown nor mentioned if he can without the suit on
he just knows how he will be able to
skins do not count obviously
limpid agate
His origin short suggests otherwise
As well as his bio
I forget if he did something in Code of Violence too
But that was before all of that
keen summit
His origin short suggests otherwise
i watched it but he seems to not be able to
he had an expirimental suit on when the blackhole happened
and after that he did something but he still had the suit, during the breakout we didnt see anything except that he didnt have his suit anymore but if he was stuck in the bed he probs couldnt control it anymore or couldnt do it well
cuz other wise he wouldve just used gravity to collapse doors etc
peak escarp
he didn't have any control over his powers before Talon took him
keen summit
and then he got his suit
peak escarp
When Talon discovered De Kuiper's existence, they infiltrated the facility and broke him out, planning to use his brilliance and research to further their plans. In their custody, De Kuiper slowly gained control of his powers. Now, gravity moved according to his will, and he was closer than ever to achieving his life's goal. But the same experiment that had opened his mind had also fractured it, and he struggled to keep the pieces together.
Talon helped him gain control
keen summit
but we dont know how
thats the thing
was it through training or modification for example cuz moira, or did he work on a suit with the lab talon gave to him etc
limpid agate
The distinction is
Gain control here implies that he couldnt control the power
But still possessed it
Not that the suit itself contains the power
keen summit
But still possessed it
well yes, as he had the formula
limpid agate
What
keen summit
how i see it is that he possesed the ability to control it because he knew to formula
but didnt have the tools to control it
and once more see how the first time it happened he was wearing a suit thats kinda close to his suit from talon? with the blue lights on the palms and the blackhole was between his hands?
keen summit
also all his gravity things (except floating but he seems to have similair thing on his ankles) are controlled by his hands where those blue things are located on his palms
keen summit
the origin story isn't told in order
i know but first analysing it, then testing it and getting fractured
in space where that blackhole happened he already had the blue things on the gloves basically
keen summit
i didnt say he was
peak escarp
this is the accident
keen summit
i know
peak escarp
so the suit has nothing to do with it
keen summit
i said that the suit seems tied to it. he couldnt control it, but how did the blackhole happen then
peak escarp
it was being made as part of an experiment
keen summit
yes, but the expiriment was about harnessing gravity, making a suit for it seems logical then. together with that he has those same things on his palms that he seemingly uses to create his spheres, barrier moving forward, his gravity succ AND his ult
cuz its all done by opening his hands and using his palm
keen summit
tracer moves forward in time with the accelerator or back in time, reaper is an expiriment from moira who basically works like fade
limpid agate
You're missing an important detail with Tracer
The Accelerator lets her control it
Without it, she can still move around time
She just cant control it
And Reaper has nothing comparable to the Accelerator or Sigma's suit in your examples to aid him in controlling his power
Its simpler to just say that Sigma is like Tracer, especially given that less leaps of faith and stretching out their choice of diction isnt required to say
Sigma cant control his power before Talon's help, potentially through the tech
keen summit
yes thats what i meant tho
the entire time he knew how to aka the formula of gravity, just without control, that suit gives him control over it
thing is kirikos abilities seem to have 0 tech
ig maybe new tech like hardlight that can heal?
but that would be new but is possible
karmic turret
i think
blizzard has simply thrown a bunch of rules out the window
and now its just magic
keen summit
i do think kiriko simply is magic, maybe itll change but rn
karmic turret
i mean could it be possibly the same tech as hanzo/gneji
keen summit
cuz hardlight healing is new, we had before basically all healing stuff was based on fluid that would be turned into gas or kept as fluid and distributed
karmic turret
because kirikos fox seems like a more intelligent/advanced version of the shimada dragons
limpid agate
The ult is the fox
keen summit
those two are, sorry for talking bout leaked cinematic again, both shown to be kinda magical
karmic turret
i forgot how bad overwatch is on twitter and searched up kiriko trying to look for the graphic
but my eyes
keen summit
The ult is the fox
in her cinematic its shown that in lore it also buffs
limpid agate
If Kiriko was a launch character and Hanzo came out now, people would be saying the same thing about the Dragon
Hanzo's and Symmetra's hard light is an energy drain
||It is not impossible for Blizzard to say they made one that is the reverse||
karmic turret
simples
is it confirmed that the healing is like proper healing
rather than a brig/lucio/zen kinda thing
limpid agate
The short answers that question
karmic turret
looks like i have to wait to find that out
limpid agate
Which is ||Yes. A man gets shot and it helps.||
karmic turret
ALSO we still havent got the sojourn cinematic
limpid agate
Nope
karmic turret
Which is ||Yes. A man gets shot and it helps.||
could it possibly be like mercy's healy stuff?
keen summit
If Kiriko was a launch character and Hanzo came out now, people would be saying ...
i disagree cuz with hanzo it could still be said its tech in his skin under tattoos and in his arrow
limpid agate
i disagree cuz with hanzo it could still be said its tech in his skin under tatt...
And people have been saying that Kiriko could be projecting the Kitsune from her eyes
keen summit
The kitsune isnt the problem tho
Cuz in the short ||the kid and grandpa get buffed and also get blue eyes, also the healing ofuda just appears and heals magically||
Maybe its hideen by her clothes the tech she uses for yknow her ofuda etc and sye hides it to make it seem like spirits to protect the shrine?
And so she uses tech that she makes like it looks as if its spirits and stuff and her movements are the inputs for tech
Sum like that could be it
Like under her gloves but also doesnt seem likely
limpid agate
||the kid and grandpa get buffed and also get blue eyes||
I already answered this half earlier
keen summit
But honestly at this point it seems more logical to just be a spirit
limpid agate
Hanzo's and Symmetra's hard light is an energy drain
||It is not impossible for Blizzard to say they made one that is the reverse||
keen summit
> ||the kid and grandpa get buffed and also get blue eyes||
I already answered t...
I know, but how? ||It seems like they get almost possesed which might again just be visual but the eyes changing etc||
limpid agate
Hard Light is a repeatedly unexplained technology.
keen summit
Ofcourse all could be tech but feels like a big stretch the entire time ti the point that a fox spirit feels more logical, ofcourse origin story could confirm or deconfirm this
limpid agate
Somehow capable of phasing through matter and being solid
Capable of being opaque and transparent
Capable of draining people's energy... And perhaps the opposite as well
Wait for more lore
keen summit
Yeah fair
We'll see
Honestly itll either be simply "spirits of the kitsune" or alot of science explanations or they just wont say anything
That she uses tech to mimic magical things but isnt actually magical, so using tech together with that shes the protector of the kitsune shrine to scare of people
timid minnow
I wonder why they didn’t release orgin story with the hero introduction
keen summit
I wonder why they didn’t release orgin story with the hero introduction
probs to have a trump card for hype
timid minnow
probs to have a trump card for hype
I just figured that’s what the cinematic was for
keen summit
I just figured that’s what the cinematic was for
both
look at jq
she was for beta hype
worthy rose
Not really lore related, but usually only lore related people care..
The book "Overwatch: Short Story Collection" is now available from book stores!
peak escarp
what do they use then?
glossy arrow
spirits
peak escarp
there is no magic in Overwatch
dreamy epoch
are spirits magic
peak escarp
yes
limpid agate
spirits
Hanzo explicitly does not use magic
Genji uses the same tech as Hanzo
It is reasonable to speculate Kirikos application is also similar, but we need to wait for her lore
slender talon
ISTG LORE DISCUSSION IS MORE ACTIVE THAN #overwatch AND #general-discussion 
glossy arrow
Hanzo explicitly does not use magic
who said spirits are magic?
wooden sleet
arnt spirits magic?
cosmic crest
Yes. They are
limpid agate
who said spirits are magic?
That's like saying "Who said pyromancy is magic." I don't know how to respond to this.
dreamy epoch
wait so the implication is that the supernatural does not exist in overwatch
peak escarp
there are some supernatural elements, but they have technological explanations
like Tracer's abilities, Sigma's abilities
wooden sleet
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clarke-
cosmic crest
there are some supernatural elements, but they have technological explanations
If it has a scientific explanation then it is by definiton not supernatrual
peak escarp
okay, superhuman
cosmic crest
Tracer sand Sigma's powers must abide by science within the OW unniverse, they just aren't properly understood yet, Sigma especially.
mystic dagger
Iirc I saw a write up somewhere explaining the Shimadas’ abilities
It was something like holo/Nano technology
Which is activated by Hanzo’s tattoo and Genji’s sword (?)
Maybe genji has a tattoo but it’s beneath his armor
Idk if this was canon but it made a lot of sense to me
I do know it is canon that they are NOT magic
cosmic crest
That's not confirmed cannon, but it's a sound explanation
I think their tattoos are nanotech projectors for hardlight.
And it's a technology only the Shimada clan had access to, and they only allowed family memebrs to receive the tattoos.
Hence why "Only a Shimada can control the dragons"
mystic dagger
Yeah, exactly. I don’t know if it’s hard light but this explanation definitely fits why the ability is so exclusive
Now the real question is how Kiriko is going to fit into this
cosmic crest
Kiriko seems to have a similar ability though with her fox projection. Maybe she also has a tattoo?
Maybe if we are lucky her animated short will tell us how she has it.
mystic dagger
Indeed, but she isn’t a shimada (at least as far as I know)
cosmic crest
She isn't
mystic dagger
Maybe her family had a similar thing or a modified form of the tech? Hence the Fox instead of dragon
molten shore
Do Lucio Oh's actually exist in the universe or is it just a spray and voice line
peak escarp
they exist in universe
molten shore
Oh wait in game can you find them
peak escarp
Efi still couldn’t believe that Lúcio—THE LÚCIO—had commented on her holovid. Her feet hadn’t touched the ground for the entire day. She’d printed the comment thread out, gotten it framed, and now it sat next to her bed. She also had one laminated to keep in her satchel. And while she was at it, she had it put onto a custom bowl for her Lúcio-Oh’s, but the custom order wouldn’t be here for days.
molten shore
Oh that's cool but it means the commercial for it isn't cannon I think
past copper
Just like there is an Overwatch cartoon series in universe
Which Efi enjoys watching
Though, does anyone else picture the in universe cartoon looking like those 80s G. I. Joe cartoons?
peak escarp
probably similar
peak escarp
maybe they will again, now that we're going to be getting new heroes again
radiant sparrow
Is he even really with any one faction? Wasn't he just chilling in the woods outside Eichenwald?
verbal smelt
His lore states that he just hangs out in secluded forest away from ppl cause his combat protocols would activate at any kind of danger it perceived
So to avoid hurting ppl he just hangs out in the forest of what I assume is in germany
So yeah pretty much
He's not affiliated with any faction
Just curious how overwatch could have found him
radiant sparrow
Detecting an operational BASTION unit outside an old combat area? 🤔
radiant sparrow
Yeah. i think it's one of those really grey-area things they (so far) haven't elaborated on.
cosmic crest
But how did overwatch ever find bastion?
Overwatch never found Bastion.
Torbjorn found him and now he's taking care of him
This is shown in the comic Binary
verbal smelt
I see
Never read any of the comics
Thanks for clearing it up
Now that you said that
I faintly remember torb finding bastion and helping him
radiant sparrow
Ooooh huh! Interesting
limpid agate
Never read any of the comics
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
If you would like to read it
Bastion has been wandering around for a decade or two
The Last Bastion is one of the oldest shorts chronologically
opaque tundra
I recommend anyone interested in playing the PvE campaign in 2023 to catch up on the lore. I have a feeling we'll all need a refresher
verbal smelt
We need more bastion love
peak escarp
it will be featured in at least one mission of the PvE
keen summit
I recommend anyone interested in playing the PvE campaign in 2023 to catch up on...
Not all of us
Mwahaha
peak escarp
some people will need catching up
keen summit
Yea
peak escarp
others need to start from the beginning
keen summit
Ive seen people in here who didnt know bap was with talon
Which is like, his entire background
One thinh i really hope they keep doing is hero teasers
Not like that they now just go "well you know when new heroes come so whatever"
peak escarp
I hope so too
we might know when the hero is being added, but they can still tease who the hero is
keen summit
Yea
Cuz like it or not, the sombra arg was sick
Couldve been shorter
But still it was really cool and unique, but comparetivly last few teasers where less. Baptiste from what i remember came outta nowhere, sigma aswell but he was at first mauga so its understandable
Echo i think had kind of a lil buildup
We knew she existed since reunion but a bit before it was teased
peak escarp
heroes that had no teasers were Moira and Ashe
keen summit
But we thought at first her creator was the hero
peak escarp
heroes that didn't exist in the lore prior to their teases are Ashe and Baptiste
keen summit
heroes that had no teasers were Moira and Ashe
Moira technically in comic i think with the table
peak escarp
and Orisa
keen summit
I really liked the orisa teasers tho ngl
peak escarp
Moira technically in comic i think with the table
yes, but she wasn't teased on twitter ahead of release like most heroes
keen summit
Ah yea
peak escarp
but Orisa literally didn't exist before her teasers, since the teaser was Efi building her
keen summit
Honestly my favs with buildup still are the early ones, ana sombra doom orisa
keen summit
but Orisa *literally* didn't exist before her teasers, since the teaser was Efi ...
Yeah ik
I remember her teasers very well
But really hope we get those again
Cuz ngl i really disliked ashe's way alot
Cuz she didnt exist, cass never mentioned her, zero teasers, like you couldve added sum to route 66 like a picture of her and cass, or her gun, or randomly there is a hat from bob but it was just she exists now
Atleast all release characters where teased before and well known characters
keen summit
just had this discussion in ow serious and wanted lore people's opinion, who would win orisa or doom, i personally believe it would be tied as doom cant really hurt orisa because of her defense while orisa doesnt have enough power to hurt him
opal nexus
the correct answer
anyways a way earlier version of orisa beats doomfist with the help of lucio iirc in the hero of numbani novel
new orisa seems to have a lot more tools to deal with what doomfist can do like javelin throwing him out of the air and fortify to defend against rocket punch
keen summit
solo 1v1 to the death. who wins go
honestly i dont think either would win but in endurance orisa would win so long fight defo orisa
i think the downfall would be if doomfist starts destroying buildings, orisa is made to protect so she would try to protect people
rotund ermine
lfmaoooooooooooooo
keen summit
so doom destroys a building, welp orisa goes in to protect
that would also stay fitting to her character
limpid agate
just had this discussion in ow serious and wanted lore people's opinion, who wou...
Orisa already fought Doomfist and won in her novel
rotund ermine
she had help
keen summit
she had help
and was early version
rotund ermine
keen summit
Orisa already fought Doomfist and won in her novel
but spoilers im reading that! (dont worry)
dry light
the correct answer
anyways a way earlier version of orisa beats doomfist with the help of lucio iirc in the hero of numbani novel
new orisa seems to have a lot more tools to deal with what doomfist can do like javelin throwing him out of the air and fortify to defend against rocket punch kimm_nathyx
opal nexus
so true
white cobalt
tiny lodge
The character at 1:56 looks just like Yoru behind and to the right of Kiriko, is that just a traditional mask/hairstyle?
glossy arrow
suck it nerds, its a spirit
white cobalt
this was what the press saw
karmic turret
so I'm assuming that the shimadas brothers Ultimates are also linked to spirits too
Since them and kiriko overlap
peak escarp
well then the devs need to clarify
because they can't say "no magic" but then say "this is spirits"
glossy arrow
they also write themselves into corners
remember when no one knew hammond was the champion? yet the queen talks to him like she knew this all along?
barren fjord
ok so, we know that there is a sojourn cinematic in the works and it would make sense to release it on October 4th. The issue is that the leaked kiriko cinematic is extremely close to being finished and it would also make sense to relese it on October 4th. unless season 2 is themed around kiriko or the mythic skin is for her i cant see another good opportunity to release another cinematic
glossy arrow
ik lmao
barren fjord
yeah, and they havent released it which is weird
woeful wren
Yessir I knew there was some magical element in the story, Hanzo and genii dragons are spirits like the fox
sonic helm
white cobalt
no, he still wandering around
peak escarp
add another thing to the list of retcons, I guess
keen summit
add another thing to the list of retcons, I guess
Yep
wooden sleet
yeah magic exist
as if flying meka robots and time stabilizing machines werent magical at all
glossy arrow
whats funny is the real reason payloads float
they couldnt get wheels to work correctly in the ow engine lmao
peak escarp
as if flying meka robots and time stabilizing machines werent magical at all
those aren't magic
wooden sleet
its futuristic science, which is magic to some degree
like not magic in the sense of actual magic but its not something that is ever going to be possible in the next 100 years
or more
upper cairn
Bruh compared to those sentient ghosts are on another level
peak escarp
flying mechs aren't that unbelievable
wooden sleet
flyinf mechs with defence matrix, being able to constantly make canons and eneregy powered sources
is pretty unbievable
keen summit
instead of spirits
its overwatch science
and overwatch is very far in future + do you not realise on how fast tech evolves?
wooden sleet
or zayra graviton gun that can shoot out black holes
keen summit
thats still in the science of overwatch possible as its sci fi but its explained in a scientific way that kinda mkes sense
keen summit
if you havea thing that slightly alters gravity, then it could probs also pull things in
kiriko is just spirit magic
i wouldve preferred if she PRETENDED to have a spirit for the grandmother for example
glossy arrow
zenyatta
kiriko
hanzo
genji
could be considered magic
glossy arrow
you have been for a while
glad i stood by spirits lmao
cause its pretty much confirmed now
upper cairn
Maybe the fox spirit is just hologram AI that gave them nanomachines?
peak escarp
it's not nanomachines
upper cairn
Most likely but i perfer when there's an explanation to magic shiet
barren fjord
i feel like mythology is different enough from magic to that they can say "no magic" and still let supernatural beings exist
cosmic crest
Supernatrual beings are inherently magical
barren fjord
mythology stems from real events that are exaggerated. most have (made up) explanations and they all start from the assumption that there is a supernatural being overlooking our world. there are supernatural being in the overwatch universe, moira can alegedly temporarily travel to another dimension and i consider that to be supernatural
cosmic crest
Moira dosen't travel to other dimensions
I don't know where you heard that but it's wrong
peak escarp
Tracer is the one who gets lost in time
limpid agate
zenyatta
kiriko
hanzo
genji
could be considered magic
Genji and Hanzo were previously explained not to be
sly fulcrum
Tracer is the one who gets lost in time
hey gurl
glossy arrow
Genji and Hanzo were previously explained not to be
could you link a source
peak escarp
the interview is in Thai (and no longer available, except in archives)
question 4:
Michael Chu & Renaud Galand: (laughs) It's not magic.```It’s not magic. Just because Kiriko is being as dramatic as Hanzo doesn’t make it magic
past copper
Show me proof of magic not being told in a dramatic fashion then I’ll believe it. Kiriko literally telling a story the same way as Hanzo isn’t proof
verbal smelt
Being overdramatic about their backstory
past copper
Literally many families in Japan even today worship a Shinto “spirit” who protects their homes because that’s apart of their culture
limpid agate
It’s not magic. Just because Kiriko is being as dramatic as Hanzo doesn’t make i...
The healing ofuda was described as an ancient technique of healing in both the origin short and the dev update
As was the summoning of the fox spirit
The teleportation was never explained, but presumably falls under the same line of thought
past copper
Heck what we saw, those healing tags don’t actually fly out of her hand. Realistically you’d have to stay still as she places them on you. Not saying it doesn’t actually heal
verbal smelt
Maybe a taoist?
limpid agate
Thats not what taoist means...
verbal smelt
Shit
limpid agate
Taoism is a different religion entirely
past copper
The fox spirit in her story might not actually be a real spirit. Probably just something like those fox statues that people pay respects to
limpid agate
It might not be a real spirit, but it is something she conjures
And their explanation for that is, unfortunately, magic
past copper
Keep in mind, this girl seems to like being as traditionally dramatic in her story telling as Hanzo, but as she’s stated she lives in the new. So she probably put her own little spin on her story. People do that often
past copper
Let’s not. Literally, everything is based in science on this heavily high tech future. And telling a story in an overly dramatic way isn’t solid proof
limpid agate
I fucking hate the idea that its magic
But I cannot deny it based on the bio
Kiriko's Origin Short is out now! Get to know the next support, the ninja healer from Kanezaka 🦊
dreamy epoch
I dunno what the apprehension when it comes to magic is
like we've said
tracer can literally travel through time
limpid agate
Thats not magic
dreamy epoch
sigma is literally a god
limpid agate
No he isnt
past copper
Watch. They’ll go back and say it’s not magic with a better explanation. But keep in mind there is no actual evidence of Kiriko interacting with the fox in her short.
She’s literally oblivious to it, which you wouldn’t be if you could actually see it. So what now?
white cobalt
limpid agate
Tracer has chronal disassociation, which came about because of a malfunction with the SLipstream
It is not magic
white cobalt
This reference is fun
limpid agate
Sigma was in another experiment that went wrong, giving him his ability to create and manipulate singularities, effectively controlling gravity
It is also not magic
Reaper is also not magic
However
This origin short and dev update explicitly explains her healing powers as ancient techniques and the ability to summon a fox spirit through effectively magic
dreamy epoch
yes
limpid agate
But keep in mind there is no actual evidence of Kiriko interacting with the fox in her short.
There is evidence of Kiriko interacting with the fox in her origin short
The most obvious example
past copper
Which they they will retract once word of conversations like this get out and where did she interact with it when she wasn’t oblivious
Being asleep on a tree trunk isn’t actually interacting
limpid agate
https://twitter.com/R3L3Jeff/status/1572276800335785984?s=20&t=0TSxYsGVisTcq1blX...
I like how the Tanuki has a tanegashima
Also I think the Kasa-obake is an omnic
dreamy epoch
I mean i guess she'll just confirm it ingame anyways
past copper
cause she's asleep on the fox
Yet in the eyes of everyone else, she’s asleep on the root behind the fox
past copper
That is an omnic. You can see the fingers
limpid agate
Im mostly thrown off because Genji is also a green cyborg
Nah, that has to be a mask or a custom face
Because its not an omnic face
The Kasa-obake isnt wearing a mask
past copper
You can see omnic eyes under the mask
It actually looks like three of them are omnics
limpid agate
What
The two on the left of Kiriko, and the Oni are human
The Kasa-obake is an omnic
The Kappa looks like an omnic in a mask
You can see the Tanuki's skin
gilded grove
is the fox spirit an ai or is it magic
limpid agate
And you can see the face of the other two
limpid agate
is the fox spirit an ai or is it magic
Thats being debated right now, but it looks like magic based on the origin short and dev update
Which is annoying
Because prior to this hero, it was a hard fact that there was no magic in Overwatch
past copper
is the fox spirit an ai or is it magic
I’m going with in Kiriko’s mind, it’s really magic. In real life, it’s not actually there
limpid agate
I’m going with in Kiriko’s mind, it’s really magic. In real life, it’s not actua...
Okay, here is the fox carrying an object
past copper
Or it could be laying on the ground. Optical illusions
limpid agate
I think youre trying too hard to find an excuse that isnt there
The writers of the game and narrative designers have changed
And the current ones have a less coherent view of the world
And decided to usher in magic
And this character rather explicitly shows
Magic annoyingly exists
gilded grove
magic = i dont want to explain it so i just say its magic
opaque tundra
There's always been supernatural elements in Overwatch lore. It's not that surprising or groundbreaking
past copper
Well then watch the devs retract that statement and say it’s not magic. I give it a week before October 4th
dreamy epoch
what's so annoying about magic
limpid agate
There's always been supernatural elements in Overwatch lore. It's not that surpr...
There hasnt
dreamy epoch
💀
opaque tundra
Sigma floating, the iris, spirit dragons, this
dreamy epoch
like I said
tracer can travel through time
cosmic crest
what's so annoying about magic
It's counter-intuitive to the theme of the OW unniverse
past copper
Sigma floating, the iris, spirit dragons, this
Absolutely nothing you said is magic
gilded grove
that was a side effect to the slip stream that's science not magic
timid minnow
Why couldn’t it just be a Fox with some hard light tech around it
dreamy epoch
"science"
gilded grove
sci-fi
cosmic crest
Overwatch is supposed to be an expression of human culture in an advanced future
opaque tundra
In an advanced future where they could bring aspects from their culture to life
past copper
Like I said, watch the devs retract the magic part and say she’s just being dramatic in her story telling. I give it a week
gilded grove
yeah everything was sci-fi but now it has fantansty in it
dreamy epoch
if the OW universe is set in an era where human beings advance by their own hands
what's so bad about the unexplainable still existing
limpid agate
Sigma floating, the iris, spirit dragons, this
Tracer can travel through time because of the crash of the teleporting jet Slipstream, giving her Chronal Disassociation. More details in her origin short.
Sigma floating is because of a science experiment that went wrong. More details in his bio.
The Iris is religion, and there is nothing to state it exists any differently than God or Nirvana
Hanzo's dragons were used, explicitly, as the example of there being no magic in Overwatch. They also behave identically to Symmetra's hard light orbs in the lore.
This is the first instance of explicit magic
past copper
yeah everything was sci-fi but now it has fantansty in it
Until people troll Blizzard on the magic part and say it’s something else. Just like they did with the Sonic movie
dreamy epoch
it'll probably just end up being explained similarly to the dragons if they decide to go back on it
limpid agate
For what its worth
The dragons were never explained explicitly. They were just said to be not magic
dreamy epoch
but come on it's a single instance in a character
I feel like it doesn't truly compromise the entire game's universe
limpid agate
It does
dreamy epoch
?
past copper
It does. This isn’t LoL
limpid agate
The whole point of a universe is consistence and coherence.
dreamy epoch
and one inconsistency destroys that?
limpid agate
It damages it, yes
dreamy epoch
one that we may not even know how to truly explain
opaque tundra
I'm gonna check out the origin story and dev update when I get home and think about this a bit more but like I said, I'm not surprised. Some sort of sci fi supernatural stuff has existed for a while
limpid agate
It also invites the possibility of Zenyatta unexplained abilities being waved as magic as well now
timid minnow
I think we just have to wait and see what happens
past copper
This is literally set in an era of OUR future world. So to add magic ruins the theme completely
limpid agate
I'm gonna check out the origin story and dev update when I get home and think ab...
Superhuman science fiction existed, but it was pure science. There is nothing apparently science based around Kiriko
dreamy epoch
the theme of the world(?)
timid minnow
The cinematic will probably help explain it
limpid agate
It doesnt
The cinematic honestly just makes it worse
I was hoping this short would explain it away
It didnt
dreamy epoch
thought experiment but if magic did actually exist in our world
how exactly would that affect the idea of science still being just as plausible
past copper
I mean, can you use magic? Right now? No. So this creates an unrealistic character nobody can relate to
dreamy epoch
yes but it's a video game
limpid agate
thought experiment but if magic did actually exist in our world
how exactly wo...
If magic did actually exist, it would fuck up everything we know about science.
past copper
yes but it's a video game
Yes, but the characters are relatable
dreamy epoch
yes so kiriko being able to use magic suddenly doesn't make her personality less relatable
opaque tundra
I can tell this pissed you off taiga lol
dreamy epoch
I cannot control gravity like sigma but can still understand his plight
limpid agate
Yes it has
Because we had explicitly been told magic doesnt exist
And Ive been arguing that it doesnt for years
And now that we have new writers
past copper
It does, because literally creating a character with magic means you’ve created a character players cannot understand or relate to since they don’t have magic
limpid agate
They just put magic in
dreamy epoch
if they retcon magic into existence then the issue is solved
limpid agate
For no reason
dreamy epoch
but that's just sigma
limpid agate
It has no relation to Sigma
If they were to retcon magic into existence, it related to 2-4 heroes
Kiriko, Zenyatta, Hanzo, and Genji
dreamy epoch
I gotta stop double convoing
limpid agate
It doesnt related to anyone else because everyone else has fixed, concrete, scientific explanations
Hanzo and Genji didnt have fixed explanations
They just had "Its not magic"
opaque tundra
When was that interview
limpid agate
4 years ago
timid minnow
What’s so different with The Fox them hanzo a dragon?
limpid agate
When we had different writers and narrative designers
dreamy epoch
and then everything imploded
all things considered she's quite interesting
hoping to see more
opaque tundra
I think you're overreacting. The overwatch team is deciding to go an easier route and there's nothing wrong with that. Inserting magic doesn't change that much if you think about the big picture. Some things are science and a few things are magic. It's up to the devs to decide or let the fans speculate or maybe Kiriko is the only magic hero bc why not
It's not the end of the world
limpid agate
It does change the big picture because it changes the entire definition of the universe
past copper
Watch. Players will troll Blizzard into retconing the magic part and get a real explanation. It worked to change Sonic’s design for the movie. It worked to ruin Morbius time in theaters. It’ll work here
limpid agate
It wont work here
There were people who genuinely thought magic existed in this game already
dreamy epoch
I mean it
limpid agate
And think nothing of this change
dreamy epoch
kinda looks like it lmao
opaque tundra
So it doesn't change anything yeah
river cradle
imagine playing ow1 or 2
limpid agate
@opaque tundra No, it does change things
It doesnt change it for people with no or shallow interest in the lore
opaque tundra
It's a harmless retcon to the community and allows the writers to continue freely without having restrictions
dreamy epoch
if you showed me OW in 2020 then it would literally look like magic with sci fi elements
limpid agate
It changes it heavily for people who actually follow the world and its story
opaque tundra
Of course there will be restrictions but you know what I mean
dreamy epoch
see but if magic is integrated into the universe from now on
isn't that better than handwaving and waiting for an explanation
limpid agate
If magic is integrated into the universe from now it, it defies the original premise of the world
Which is that it is an optimistic hard science fiction future of our current world
limpid agate
isn't that better than handwaving and waiting for an explanation
no
dreamy epoch
but that's just
ignorance then
dreamy epoch
like if I want to know about zen's powers
opaque tundra
I want to know about omnic sentience bc how does that work
limpid agate
We dont know Genji and Hanzo's dragons, but we can speculate its hard light due to behaving and appearing identically to Symmetra and being explicitly confirmed as non magic
And in the case of Zenyatta
past copper
Blizzard will change it soon enough. New devs with little knowledge on the lore against a large portion of the community who know a lot. Heck, they changed McCree’s name against half the communities wishes. They change abilities often through patch notes.
What’s to stop them from taking back the magic part over the diversity they’re creating?
limpid agate
We knew he was capable of some form of healing Mercy didnt understand, and were speculating to what it was and looking forward to seeing what future lore would reveal.
Especially as all we had to go off of was a vague keyword in "Omnic Energies"
Like, is this some omnic power source that is still unexplained
Is it tied to the other mysteries of the omnics
Such as their awakening
Or the crisis
But saying "its magic" also introduces that possibility into the general mysteries of the world. Especially when the magic can be introduced to omnics themselves
If Zenyatta is magic, would the idea of omnic sentience be magic?
If the idea of omnic sentience is magic, was the omnic crisis magic?
And then you get to the flaw that makes the unexplained rise of the omnics a nightmare
We now have a new speculation that is awful
It was magic
dreamy epoch
is this basically saying that magic and science can't coexist
limpid agate
No
Magic and science can coexist when a world is created with that in mind
Such as Warcraft
Warcraft does it very well
Warcraft is also a fantasy realm
Overwatch was always a firm science fiction story
Based on our world, but in the future
opaque tundra
You can still have a good mystery with magic. Where did "the magic" come from? Why did it happen? Did someone harness it? What does this discovery mean for the future of our world?
past copper
You know, a worse thought would be if the devs were pressured into going against their better judgement and forced to say it’s magic. Wouldn’t be the first time they were forced to change things when you think about it
cosmic crest
The entire point of Overwatch's world was for it be more like earth and not like Blizzard's other IP's
Introducing magical elements goes against that
Magic is inherently otherworldly
limpid agate
Because its a universe
Introducing one element to a universe has rammifactions for the whole universe
Especially when its the biggest element possible
dreamy epoch
she is one of what
7 people in the world who can use this in the entire universe
limpid agate
Like, lets pause
Lets suppose for one second
That we had an elf
Just a normal elf
Born an elf
An elf
On Earth
"Its just one element"
Yeah, but that is a massive fucking element
dreamy epoch
but HOW I don't understand
limpid agate
Because now there is an entire 3rd race living on this planet that no one ever acknowledged once
dreamy epoch
is it because it's different
dreamy epoch
because it cannot be explained in the same way as most phenomenon can
opaque tundra
Okay I think an elf would be too far lol I don't that's a good example to use here
limpid agate
Its not too far
past copper
Because that would be a MAGICAL character in a SCIENTIFIC world. That’s the big difference
dreamy epoch
but what defines a "scientific" world in this case
actually that's a broad question
opaque tundra
That's an interesting question
limpid agate
Michael Chu, the former lead writer, explains it pretty clearly
And Kiriko goes actively against this
16 minutes in is the part about specifically hard science fiction
past copper
So that’s insulting to the one who was in charge of the Overwatch story then
past copper
To add a hero who completely goes against this whole world
opaque tundra
I'll check that out later it won't load on my phone. I understand where you're coming from. You value the original ideas that were set up and that's fine
dreamy epoch
phone loading 🥲
limpid agate
Here is youtube
Better video player
It was a very good video overall about the direction of establishing the world
@past copper Also, if they do decide to change anything at the last minute, it will be Kiriko's age. Not this
It was described that she was 7 when the Shimada clan fell
opaque tundra
But I hope you also understand the fact that things do change and that this change is not that huge is retrospective. There won't be actual wizards or extra dimensions in overwatch. I'm sure they'll keep things grounded and stay away from vampires. I'd start complaining if they introduced vampires
limpid agate
That would mean that she was training and playing with Genji when she was 6/7 while Genji was in his 20s
opaque tundra
I think I'm just gonna leave this conversation and let you do your own thing
limpid agate
They'll probably make the same quick last minute update that they did with Brigitte
Change the numbers so the timelining makes sense
grand wedge
Easier to do that than retconning Genji & Hanzo's age
limpid agate
... That is magic
dreamy epoch
phantasmagoria
glossy arrow
and ancestry
cosmic crest
If it defies scientific explanation then it's magic
dreamy epoch
yo heaven is magic 😱
limpid agate
Using that argument, then when will we get a priest that can cure wounds through the grace of god and smite people with holy wrath
Which in Warcraft and every fantasy universe where it exists
glossy arrow
If it defies scientific explanation then it's magic
what about sigma in that case
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sigma#story
glossy arrow
but a bogus one
limpid agate
No
The heroes that the idea of magic effects are Zenyatta and the Shimadas
Thats all
Everyone else has concrete scientific explanations
glossy arrow
if you are debunking something like religion or ancestry as scientific explanation, then you are debunking everything sci fi as well
past copper
I’m just saying. The devs will be forced to retcon something on Kiriko. And judging by this character, they’ll be forced to change a LOT on her
limpid agate
While Zenyatta was a questionmark, and the Shimadas were just "not magic"
cosmic crest
Sigam is an anomaly. His powers are not well understood but they do abide by science in unniverse.
limpid agate
if you are debunking something like religion or ancestry as scientific explanati...
What. If you're just here to shitpost, please do not derail the channel
Or preferably, do not shitpost at all
limpid agate
Channel description reads: Shitposting will result in loss of access.
limpid agate
if you are debunking something like religion or ancestry as scientific explanati...
This is a statement that makes no sense in context of this conversation, or outside of it
glossy arrow
i refer to my previous message
glossy arrow
i would be conservative with the definition of magic if the overwatch universe is strictly "no magic"
we dont know much about the iris, other than that its a supposed being
according to sigma
limpid agate
Sigma doesnt know anything about the Iris. Even Zenyatta doesnt really understand what he meansa
glossy arrow
im thinking its some sort of religious entity, considering zenyatta is a monk
past copper
I already said Kiriko and her family traditionally worshipped a non-exist fox spirit, but to her it was real. Hence the overly dramatic origin story drawn out in a similar fashion as Hanzo’s story of the dragon brothers
limpid agate
And there is nothing to say that the Iris exists any differently than God or Nirvana or anything else religion based
glossy arrow
so then you would call that magic?
dreamy epoch
💀 it's okay ryu it's only a pet fox
glossy arrow
The Iris has no impact on the physical world
and therefore...?
limpid agate
It isnt magic because it has no impact on the world, and could be handwaved as something that doesnt exist by non-believers
past copper
💀 it's okay ryu it's only a pet fox
What it is is Live Action Sonic waiting to happen
glossy arrow
It isnt magic because it has no impact on the world, and could be handwaved as s...
if it has no impact then what about zenyattas orbs?
speculation, of course
limpid agate
What about Zenyattas orbs
glossy arrow
zenyattas orbs probably derive from the iris
limpid agate
Not what I asked
past copper
if it has no impact then what about zenyattas orbs?
Have you actually seen him use his orbs to heal in the lore?
limpid agate
What about Zenyattas orbs
What is it that you are saying they can do
That needs an explanation
glossy arrow
they can heal no?
past copper
they can heal no?
Not that anyone has ever seen
limpid agate
But we dont know how it works
glossy arrow
probably spiritual healing
limpid agate
And were hoping to see future lore dive into that
glossy arrow
if i were to guess
limpid agate
Likewise, we were given a keyword years ago
Omnic Energies
It could have been some form of power transfer
glossy arrow
could be that
but considering how they are referincing the iris more than that i doubt it
havent heard any interactions or anything involving omnic energies yet
and it seems they want to explore the iris more
limpid agate
You could give a crusader an assault rifle in the 1200s
And tell him it was a gift of god
glossy arrow
sure
glossy arrow
so you think a futuristic being gave zenyatta his powers?
with some unexplained 31000 AD shit
limpid agate
No... Rifles did exist in the 1200s. Just not in Europe