------ EXPANSION PACK 4 - COMMUNITY POLL ------

[hybrid shore]

Compiling several popular requests from multiple public forums, I will be posting the most thematically plausible DLC themes that the community has been discussing lately.

Please leave your votes in the following comments with reactions on each of the separate themes, and pick your favorites.

Keep in mind, these are trying to capture archetypes in very generalist terms, so they will be simple while covering the centerpieces of the fantasy tropes. Suggestions could be moved for example, from a proposed race to a tome unit.

There are also MULTIPLE changes that are currently necessary, and would pair almost perfectly with some of the missing archetypes, most notably, an update to the current naval combat that would be necessary for an Ocean DLC.

Also keep in mind, that there are several somewhat disconected pieces of contente, that could fit anywhere. I have proposed plausible locations for these additions inside the thematic DLCs, but They could arguably go anywhere. Some examples are the minotaur and gnome races, centaur transformation and lycantrope with werevolves for example.

So let’s go ahead and see our Community suggested themes. Leave your votes on each comment, and then give me your opinions on Other additions. I might add them bellow:

Also leave the reaction on this suggestion thread itself if you agree with any of the themes bellow.

🧚‍♀️ 🍃 🌲 🍄 --- THE FEY DLC --- 🧚‍♀️ 🍃 🌲🍄

1 - Seelie Ruler: Fae Ruler type, possibly using the 4 seasons. Caster with strong nature affinity focus.

2 - Dryad Race: Similar to Nymphs, these would look like elves with aesthetic options that resemble plants, leaves instead of hair and wooden skin with branches.

3 - Myconid Race/Transformation: Mushroom race, still leaning into the nature affinity but mixing in shadow elements, focusing more on death and decay, with hivemind and spore zombies. Tome of Fungi, with focus on decomposing your enemies, spores and mushrooms.

4 - Spriggans: Tome Unit, Tier 4 mythical, mix Fey and Plant. Melee focus, something that plants and fey lack.

5 - Centaurs: Major Transformation from high level tome.

6 - Pixies: Very similar in function to sprites, but could still be something separate, more humanoid.

🌊 🦈 🦀 🏴‍☠️ --- THE OCEAN DLC --- 🌊 🦈 🦀 🏴‍☠️

1 - Fishfolk Race: Pretty straigh forward, humanoid fish. Incude shark customization options, hammerhead shark.

2 - Merfolk Transformation: Major Transformation, changing the lower body into a mermaid tale, similar to naga.

3 - Crustacean Race/Transformation: CRAB NATION!

4 – Crabs and Sharks: Mounts, Fauna and Monsters.

5 - Pirates: Piracy tome with more magelock/gunpowder options.

6 - Ocean Narrative: Story missions and map modifiers entirely for ocean exploration. Ocean wonders and events.

🦕 🦖 🦎 🗿 --- THE DINOSSAUR DLC --- 🦕 🦖 🦎 🗿

1 - Dinossaurs: Fauna, mounts, units and more. Dinos everywhere. Dinossaur customization options for lizardfolk race.

2 - Aztec Style Faction: Nature faction with subfactions themed around sacrifices, jungles, pyramids. Feathers, Jaguars and Obsidian Weapons.

3 – Journey to the Center of the Earth Narrative: Prehistoric dinossaurs surviving underground or a similar thematic narrative with lost civilizations would be amazing.

4 - Dino Necromancy: Living fossils for your shadow twist on the trope. Night at the Museum vibes.

5 - Tlaltecuhtli Constructs: Magical twist to the Aztec style, with living stone statues.

🏜️ 🪲 🦁 ☀️ --- THE EGYPTIAN DLC --- 🏜️ 🪲 🦁 ☀️

1 - Sphinx Ruler/Transformation/Creature: Lower body of a lion, with magical powers

2 - Mummies: Focus on undead tomes, and cult of death, with mummified units.

3 - Egyptian Style Faction: Shadow or Astral affinity focusing again, on the reverence to death.

4 - Pyramids and Wonders: Pyramid building mechanic or addition of a lot of map regions and wonders.

5 - Scarabs: Beetles finally get some love, with extra scarab mount options and tomes with scarab themes.

6 - Rhyno/Hippo/Elefant Race: Big bulky race, either of the 3, or all 3. Also mounts.

🔥😈 📄 👼 --- THE DEMONIC DLC ---🔥 😈 📄 👼

1 - Archdevil Ruler: Infernal Contracts mechanics and demonology, spawning hordes of fiends.

2 - Tomes of the 7 Deadly Sins: Currently we have tomes for Gluttony, Wrath, Greed and Luxury. We could complete the 7 deadly sins by adding Jealousy, Sloth and Pride.

3 - Good vs Evil narrative: The most obvious story of Archons against demons.

4 - Archangel Ruler: The counterpart to the Archdevil, order affinity and good would also recieve a dedicated ruler type to complete the Archon Prophecy DLC.

5 - Minotaur Race: Humanoid with bovine head.

⚙️ 🛠️ 🤖 🚂 --- THE STEAMPUNK DLC --- ⚙️ 🛠️ 🤖 🚂 -

1 - Gnome Race: Pretty much the only major race of fantasy still missing on the game.

2 - Mechanist Merchant Faction/Tomes: Constructs and machines, with a defensive and trade focus. Mix Astral and Materium for magitek. Auto-Turrets, small mechanical minions and a mix of mechanical science and magic. Trading Guild style of play.

3 - Construct Major Transformation: A way to give up your flesh body, and turn yourself into a construct.

4 - Frankenstein Flavour: Tomes focussed on fabricated life through stitched flesh, shadow affinity. Lightning damage with tesla coils and such.

5 - Plague Doctor: Alchemy focus on disease and pestilence. Plague doctor units. The chemist side of the DLC.

6 - Clockwork Narrative: This idea of creating life with gears, and suplanting the original. Evolution through the machinery. Victorian visual style.

🧙 🐈‍⬛ 🔮 🪄 --- THE WITCH DLC --- 🧙 🐈‍⬛ 🔮 🪄

1 - Witchcraft tomes: Black cats, cauldrons and flying brooms. Slav folklore. The chicken house. Baba Yaga.

2 - Hags: Different hag monsters for several biomes. According map events and wonders. Maybe something similar to a pact mechanic.

3 – Lycanthrope Werebeasts: Werewolves, werebears, kitsunes, wereboar. Moon and shapeshifting mechanics.

4 – Curses, hexes and potion making: Different mechanics for witch magic. Polymorph magic.

5 – Faction of Whispers and Cultists: Cabal style faction to fill the shadow and dark space, dark fantasy renascence vibes. Would fit perfectly as a faction for vampires as well.

[hybrid shore]

Also running a poll on Reddit if anyone wants to check some previous options

[hallow prawn]

These ideas are fine, but you don't seem to follow the Ruler/Culture/Story DLC style. Everything is too vague, and some of the lists you made are immense and would need more than one full season for the theme.

[pastel robin]

I think they're just presenting themes, not full feature lists.

They've done a great job compiling the most commonly requested themes and creating a poll, while also including dinosaurs (which I've never seen requested but is an awesome idea).

[next valve]

Centaurs please

[river star]

my request for expansion pass 4 is that it happens at all

[hybrid shore]

DLCs don’t follow that style of Ruler/Culture/Story. It varies from DLC to DLC. And they are not immense, most of the things are individual additions.

[hybrid shore]

Exactly. Dinosaurs have been a very popular request.

Specially along with an Aztec style, feathered dinosaurs. We already have raptors in game…

[fervent eagle]

Ocean DLC

Ocean layer / undersea biome for underground
water rework
shark form
amphibian battles

[hybrid shore]

I’m pretty sure the water rework would have to be a free update, not DLC, and the devs have also talked about extra layers to the map as being pretty much impossible due to performance. I guess it could be done, if you limited map layers to only 3… but unlikely. Shark form though, I’m all for. Not sure what you mean for amphibian battles. Battles with part water part land? Underwater land maps?

[fervent eagle]

1. were already getting a new layer in this DLC
2. id do underwater as part of the underground layer

[pastel robin]

They said only 3 layers are possible.

That means if they introduce a new one, it won't be compatible with umbral realm (you will one to choose one or none during realm creation)

[hybrid shore]

Yes, they did say that on stream.

[lone trellis]

Water is already its own layer imo. Not in the traditional sense but it's different enough to count as it's own layer

And I think adding underwater stuff on top of that would intensify water's problems as well

[ionic kelp]

I don't see an appeal to an entire underwater layer other than specific themes that work better "in the dark". I'd be very excited to see crustaceans though

[hybrid shore]

I am pretty sure centaurs are coming, most likely in the form of a major transformation just like the drider one

[hybrid shore]

Crustaceans would be amazing

Also myconids

[hybrid shore]

I agree, but it just seems hard for them to pull off.

I would absolutely love it though.

[lone trellis]

I dunno

I get where ppl are coming from but I just can't get behind it

[pastel robin]

To be honest, they could effectively make an "underwater layer" by making enclosed underground chasms that are largely water and only accessible through water caves.

That would also allow us to make "underwater cities".

It could be activated by a realm trait.

Most "underwater layers" I envision are just a fancy version of that.

[ionic kelp]

Yeah. That's kinda where my mind was at even though I didn't write it out.

[pastel robin]

Admittedly, if there was a seperate underwater layer at least it wouldn't clash with underground and could also have some unique magic materials and wonders (assuming we could build there), so there are good reasons for it.

Also I did envision an underwater layer that was effectively "deep ocean currents" that players could use to travel waters quicker. Although that's just glorified naturally spawning teleporters.

[fervent eagle]

Could also be magical water where the water tiles are seperated from the air tiles or the underground by a magical barrier

Being underwater would cost your units extra mana upkeep (because you have to keep casting water breathing)

[pastel robin]

I like the underwater costing more mana upkeep angle.

[hybrid shore]

I really like the idea of underwater combat, or an underwater layer.

I just think it would be too difficult and too niche to implement.

There are very few ways you could justify a feudal army of humans being in the ocean floor…

That’s why I think it’s unlikely.

I would MUCH RATHER we have an excelente naval combat system rework, with ships and other specific mechanics.

[hybrid shore]

I could see it working out mechanically, but thematically it would still be too extreme to have an entire army of feudal humans and the botton of the sea…

Like I said. I think a naval rework is a much better idea.

Then, you could make those “water” transformations, simply better in the water zones.

Maybe just a way to found cities in the sea tyles.

[fervent eagle]

That’s why you got a wizard

[bleak condor]

It's been requested a few times, it's just been discussed less because it hasn't been teased as much as some of the other themes. Dinosaurs would almost be creating an entirely new theme from scratch (apart from likely hooking into animal buffs).

[hybrid shore]

Yeah, like I said. I could see it working. It would just look too extreme still…

[novel cloak]

We need big Dino lizards rawr rawr maybe i should make a propre thread about it eventually

[hybrid shore]

I mean… dinossaurs is one of the only options where we already have some things in-game that relate to the them. We already have raptors.

Feels weird that a single species on dinosaurs exists in aow4

[midnight mason]

Hags sound amazing as a unit - since we are getting more fey stuff in next dlc it would be so fitting if they were there :<

[bleak condor]

AoW3 raptors felt like they might be more of a lesser dragon subspecies, including likely using the same rig as wyverns but without the wings. I also don't think it's coincidence that AoW4 default raptor has a similar colour scheme to slithers.

Which is not to say that I don't think they should do more dinosaurs, just that they might be considering raptors specifically to be something else.

[hybrid shore]

Completely agree.

We could see a big dino mount similar in size to the elephant in size.

And then maybe some giant Dino units to be unlocked.

[fleet mulch]

I would just like to see a water battle rework. As is water units are wasted resources being sea locked, and I typically avoid sea battles as they are unpredictable in auto and not as fun land fights currently.

[pastel robin]

I want a T-Rex mount.

That would be a peak expansion pack for me, regardless of other content.

[granite mantle]

Yeah, there's a precedent for them, too. They were a human unit in AoW 2.

[marble pasture]

They looked more like an old herbal lady than an actual fey though.

Or am I mixing up units?

[granite mantle]

You are correct

[bleak condor]

I'd consider the AoW2 witch/herbalist to be completely different to a fey hag.

[hybrid shore]

Same. I prefer and ankylossaur though.

[bleak condor]

Team Ceratopsian here.

Theropods do have a bit of an issue of being "like dragon, but without wings or magic", which is at least substantially reduced with the (mostly) plant-eating dinosaurs.

[boreal geyser]

Moo moo moo

[flat lodge]

water related dlc to make it more interesting gotta happen, would love these features for sure

idk if they can balance full on hybrid battles but I'd be down for something like boarding action happening on capital ships

[hybrid shore]

I could see witches and fey mixing up

[slate prawn]

I want stupid-big Titanosaurs and Brontosaurs and Apatosaurs and Diplodocuses.

I'll take Rhinos and Triceratopses instead, if there's no dice for the longnecks.

Oh, and I'd like a Sauronesque thingy where you can be a Ruler that's basically a magic artifact your Heroes pass around, like a Demilich's skull or a cosmic egg.

Oh yeah, and having a fourth Magic Material for both Plants and Fluids would be nice.

And more Lost Soul Sidequests; maybe Lost Fey instead of Lost Souls, since fairies can go invisible in some stories?

[marble pasture]

Maybe in a Fey and Water dlc, respectively.

[marble pasture]

As an alternative to representing Sauron as an artifact, I've seen suggestions for a stationary ruler. So less 'ring of power' and more 'flaming eye on top of a tower'. Even though both ideas work through proxies (the nine, Saruman and the like).

[hybrid shore]

Same. Dinotopia style brontosauros with archets riding it.

[hybrid shore]

I think boarding action is very unlikely

It would be much easier for them, to make “class” specific ships for each of the cultures, and then have some transformations that remove the ship, together with some units that also don’t need it.

A merfolk transformation for example, could just put the units in the field side by side with the boats.

[flat lodge]

we used to have class ships before it was terrible though as far as interacting with the rest of the game, reason why it got removed, they need to do more than just that if we want this to do go right this time

by boarding I mean an actual map that is just two big ships boarding each other

I think it could be fun

[hardy nova]

Yeah, but I'm not sure about why do we need a third layer? Why can't we just fill the empty Underground space with "underwater pockets"?
Overall about the culture. IDK what culture I'd like to see. Really, if devs would rework naval battles, Reavers pretty much are the pirates. So the theme would need to be 100% distinct, IMO

[hardy nova]

I just want to see and use my units on the ships, man. Let range units fire and melee units "board" the enemy ships if they got close to them. Like, if you can place 2 units on a ship, you can make a bunch of different crew combinations for different purposes

About the ideas themselves.

1. Egyptian theme.
   I don't really like the Egyptian theme. Generally, it's the same thing we already have in game (we have 2 "desert-themed" cultures already) but it just looks different. Having some Egyptian-themed Faded regions in the desert with a couple of units available for completing the questline would be awesome though!

2. Dinos and Aztec.
   Please don't eat me on a spot mr. T-Rex leader, but I'm not a fan of the whole dinosaur theme. It seems a little too forced. The Aztec themed culture is great, though. And having a dino as a unique mount is also very cool. But I'd hope devs won't overdo it if they go that way

3. Steampunk.
   Am I the only one who thinks Reavers could use a 3rd subfaction with Astral focus, combining magic and tech?
   I don't really see a separate culture for any of those ideas. Mechanical part is covered by a River Culture and Merchant culture seems too weak as a theme. Merchant tomes would be great, though!
   And having a questline to do something with mechanisms and magic with a specific faded region is very welcome

And finally, my preference that I tie to the Which DLC.
I generally love the idea of cross-affinity themes in the game. I AM a fan of Fey being the Nature and Astral combination in AoW4. I'd love to see some other combinations to be explored further.
Werebeasts, Witches, Slavic culture are all awesome and I see those being some sort of Shadow + Chaos combination. I don't see a Cultist culture being something other than Pure chaos or Chaos + Shadow, but I feel like this role is partially filled with the reworked Dark culture. Awesome trope, though!

And a question to everybody here. What combination of affinities would you like to be in the game and what theme would it represent?

[flat lodge]

effectively magic and tech is what reaver is, they arent pure gunpowder faction I mean the weapons are called magelock for a reason

and really there isnt space for a completely magic-less faction in a game where progress is made by unlocking more tomes of magic

we can get close though with ascetics and avoiding some stuff but in the end its still a lot of magic

[bleak condor]

My issue is...

This kinda works for HoMM because it's already so abstract that representing sea battles between armies of dragons and titans and so on as a boarding action between two ships is... well, it doesn't really bend the suspension of disbelief any more than "you can put ten thousand dragons into a single space and it still only takes up the space of one" already does.

AoW4, on the other hand, tries to be a little more believable than that, and in that context, representing an entire battle as a boarding action between two ships would require those ships to be absolutely massive. You could maybe get away with smaller ships, say a ship per stack or a ship for every 2-3 embarked units, and have the player be able to move their ships as well as moving units within the ships (and swimming/floating/flying units able to choose whether to board ships, attack ships directly instead of units on ships, or go out on their own), but that'd be a lot of coding work.

[hybrid shore]

I feel like we could just have the tomes fill in for the Egyptian theme

[slate prawn]

I still think unit scale could be a lot better.

Dragons and Giants feel a teensy-weensy bit teensy-weensy.

[hybrid shore]

I think I mostly want the materium combinations.

I NEED a clockwork material/astral tome with magitec

[hardy nova]

With some electritian guy. You know, a gun charged from 2 coils behind his back)

[hybrid shore]

That’s where the plague doctor or frankesntein vibe comes in

It is just a perfect fit, and SUCH A COOL style

[slate prawn]

The Tome of Time
"Apply Hastened or Slowed or something, idfk"

[hybrid shore]

I genuinely don’t know how they should go about a naval rework

I think that the best case scenario would be to just keep it simple

A unit reskin with unit type boats for each culture to fight on water tyles just sounds like the most plausible option to me

Although, I could easily see just “water maps” where just like you mentioned, we just have island maps with water on the borders, or giant ship structures making up the tiles, where the regular units fight

There could be some map environmental elements, similar to the magic crystals or trees

That could be interacted with

For example, to simulate a boarding action with wooden bridges going over to the other “ship”

[pastel robin]

I think "water maps" is the best solution.

Anything else and water combat will always feel like a chore.

[hybrid shore]

I could see it working very well

There could be “water” haxes, besides the ship itself

And a few units could possibly use it too, like water units and merfolk transformation units

Together with limited deck hexes and interactive map elements

[hybrid shore]

Which units currently in game would be considered “water creatures”?

[slate prawn]

Nimu, Krakens, teeeeechnically Dire Penguins

Ghost Ships

Water Elementals exist

[marble pasture]

In addition to what Fenrir said: crocodiles and naga.

[hardy nova]

We 100% need not to have a penalty when our units board the ships as a default option. With new 40 movement system, there is no place for such a punishment for water exploration, IMO

[slate prawn]

Ship-boarding is slow! It's like boarding a plane.

My suggestion would be to make default movement 32 instead of 40, because 40 is insane.

(But 40 in water)

[hardy nova]

It is slow, but I have enough of time wasted in airports. Pls don't waste it in the game as well

[granite mantle]

The delay really doesn't serve much of a gameplay function. Other than to make advanced logistics a must-take on maps with water, anyway.

[bleak condor]

Part of it is that water is intended to be a kind of "soft barrier" - there are obviously ways around it, but at least in the early game water is supposed to be something that can slow you down and channel you in other directions.

[granite mantle]

Eh. I guess.

[lost glade]

Perhaps have it so that units in water on the main map stay the way they are with just new sprites, then in combat, each ship is several hexes big and acts as mobile land that can also attack, dp boarding actions?

Also, naval forts!

I also wouldn’t mind minotaur race and some sorta Egyptian, perhaps with a very antiquity feel, combined with dynasty or tribal mechanics, IE, heroes create their own tribe or dynasty, and each has their own t3 units, but can only pick two or three out of the set.

And I like the ideas of more dinosaurs and Aztecs.