#Mortal heroes feel outdated

39 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

novel rover
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Right now, the Champion and Wizard King are noticeably weaker compared to the Dragon Lord and Giant King, especially in multiplayer — and that feels disappointing.

The Champion is in a slightly better spot, since their Commander skills boost the entire army, which is particularly useful for evolving units. But the Wizard King feels way too weak. I had to try really hard just to make a build with him work at all — and I know that the Giant King would have done the same thing much better.

So, I suggest at least giving them a stronger economic start to compensate.

For example, the Champion could start with an store house in their capital. On the one hand, they specialize in food production, but on the other hand, they usually don't want to build store house— their farm provinces give more food, and the store house building is less effective by comparison.

The Wizard King could start with a shrine and +50 mana. Since they rely more on spells than other rulers, this would help their early game. Right now, when I start as a Wizard King, I have only 50 mana in stock and 20 mana income. Summoning a unit costs 60 mana, and I also need mana for combat spells. So unless there's a free mana crystal on the map, it's often better to wait until turn 3 for the first fight — and that feels far too slow.

It won't solve the problem entirely, but I'm sure it's at least a small step in the right direction and doesn't require many resources to implement.

livid moth
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WK can cast 2 spells per turn with overchannel, and still attack, depending on what you picked. They're still pretty good.

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A pure WK astral spellcaster just rains fury all over the battlefield and doesn't even need to move.

novel rover
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Most duel have decisive battle around turn 30. In best case scenario you will have one tier2 open by that time. What kind of astral fury are you talking about?

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Yesterday I had duel vs dragon lord and he scored lvl 8 by turn 25. At that moment he was able to clear out silver and golden wonders solo. Several day ago I had duel vs giant king. He had five grown Fire Elementals by turn 19, and by turn 23, he already had a Tier-4 weapon craftedю What can mortal heroes do by that time?

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Just to clarify, all of that happened on normal speed

sharp night
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i don't... disagree? but i don't think the game is balanced for duels at all. so i am not sure this is a "problem" per say

novel rover
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I'm personally a little tired of playing against AI. It's fun to wipe out the first enemy, but after that, it turns out no one else can put up any real resistance. So I rarely finish FFA games. And that's on hard difficulty.

Raising the difficulty isn't really an option either, because the AI starts cheating so hard that you're forced to play combats manually. Due to weak combat AI, you end up controlling almost every single battle yourself — even the simplest ones — because the AI just rushes forward and takes heavy casualties.

The only real opponent is a human player. They can adapt their build to the situation, set up ambushes, and make unexpected decisions. If you haven't tried multiplayer yet, you really should — you might end up enjoying it.

quartz meadow
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command

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is goated

sharp night
urban zodiac
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One thing that makes mortal heroes absolute monsters is that when they ascend to your pantheon, they maintain all of their transformations. This allows them to become more powerful than dragons or giants but i do understand that people can turn off the ascension stuff.

tepid juniper
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I think the general consensus is actually that champion is right behind giant for strongest following the general discourse here... especially in mp

analog egret
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champ, after a long time being bad, is now actually good

quartz meadow
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command is like all I feel needs to be said imo

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That ability is so amazing

cosmic plinth
quartz meadow
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It's not easy per se

sharp night
cosmic plinth
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for that the AI had to leave their territory when declaring war

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I've rarely seen an AI doing that, can't count how often an allied AI of mine, declared war on another AI just to do nothing and watch me do everything, or how often an AI would declare war on me and not do anything at all until I either leave my territory unprotected, am about 3 armies weaker or enter their territory

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also can't count how often an AI that is in war with sb has their army spread across the whole map for no reason, especially if their territory is getting a little bigger

hidden cave
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Which would be my main argument about getting a vampire ruler like so many suggest. Vampire = racial ruler (maybe shape shift into vampire form as I could imagine many people would like that. Personally I do not care but I want another racial leader for the fun of transformation

analog egret
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Vampire ruler will most likely not be racial since itd have undead type from the start

robust juniper
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I dunno about that. I'd respect it if it wasn't, but vampires in fiction range wildly between looking like husks to just being conventionaly beautiful people. The Vampire unit in Age of Wonders 2 I believe fell in the conventional beauty category.

livid moth
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Vampires can't be a race I think. They could be a subclass. As in a box you tick on your ruler.
BAM: Your ruler can now bite heroes and give them this subclass with skills and weaknesses

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ugly AND handsome

cosmic plinth
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now that i mention it, tbh i think a culture would fit way more than a race

livid moth
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I don't see them working as a race. But a culture it might do the trick to some extent.
Still, if you want to have a proper vampire hierarchy with a BIG BAD DRACULA, powerful purebloods and worthless thralls... that's going to be more difficult.

Vampire quests, vampire tropes... that fits more of a ruler. And people WILL want vampire orcs and stuff (even if I don't like that idea) so I think a subclass makes the most sense to me.

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Or maybe just copypaste mortal Wizard king and make him more reliant on skills and blood.

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so people can go crazy with it or not, depending on their taste

robust juniper
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I figured they would be a ruler type. Perhaps with the gimmick of being able to bite heroes and impart traditional undead weaknesses and vices in exchange for greater power.

urban zodiac
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Why not a vampire lord or lady for the ruler type and a culture trait or form trait for your people to be vampires?

hidden cave
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Vampires as a race from the start would be pretty bad (aka too good/strong) and also not fitting the theme of the game . After all they kicked frostling/draconians out of the game to make them a transformation. So if we get some specific vampire transformation I would assume this to be in a tome.

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So in the end of we get vampire ruler it would most likely be EV elder vampire. A racial unit with special Features. Maybe even the potential to grant regular heroes some additional powers like someone hinted above. I would like that. So no full vampiric race (current transformations kind of cover that) but an oligarchic elite of vampires ruling their cattle/thrall race