Resistances on Major and Minor Transformations | Age of Wonders Official Discord | Page 1

low sorrel Sep 17, 2023, 2:18 AM

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Hello devs,

Just noticed what I feel are some inconsistencies on major and minor transformations resistances. Not sure though, but I would like to expose:

- Demonkin: While Demonkin gives you burning immunity, flying and frenzy it doesn't apply the "Fiend" tag (this probably due to Demonic Anthem, it's alright) and thus doesn't penalize you for going demonic if against celestial beings. Fiend tag gives the unit: +2 fire resistance and -4 frost and spirit resistances. Something that is current possible is to go for Demonkin + Anointed People and be a demon with +4 spirit resistance while I would expect that combination to just "neutralize" the bonuses/penalties if Demonkin had also the resistances given to Fiend units;
- Scions of Flame and Frostling Transformation: give you +4 fire resistance but should also penalize you with a -4 frost resistance. And Frostling should give you a -3 fire resistance together with the +3 frost resistance;

Also not sure if Frostling and Scion of Flame combo is possible but it shouldn't the same way spawnkin and supergrowth 🤔 after all, I think you should be able to specialize in ice demon, holy demon (?) or traditional fire demon 🤔

- Astral Attunement: as I understand this one is supposed to be a ethereal transformation, even though doesn't apply the Ethereal unit tag, but the 4th Story Realm made clear that races with this transformation are on a thin line between materiality and the astral sea. I understand that is out of question to give this transformation all the status immunities that ethereal units have (there are 7!) but I would really like to see it receive the +2 spirit resistance and -4 lightning resistance.

Did I understood something wrong about those resistances or it is indeed a balancing question? 🤔 (I posted here bc not sure if working as intended or if just went oversight but if need to post again on the bug session of the forums, just point me out xD)

low sorrel Sep 17, 2023, 2:59 AM

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Also, giving those transformations not only a positive resistance but also a negative one helps to make the choice of going into them or not more meaningful and also increase the assimetry between WK and champions (the first feels more encouraged to transform their ppl while the second may depend a bit more on the society traits you choose)

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:48 AM

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Astral Attunement is already the weakest major transformation, riddling it with that HUGE lightning weakness without giving it proper ethereal status immunities would be objectively terrible

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and I would rather Scions of Flame and Frostling both consistently give -2 for their opposite weakness and +3 for their respective resistances, they are minor transformations, they should not have tradeoffs as huge or crippling as major ones

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 2:55 PM

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Damn it don't tell them about my Ice and Fire dudes! But yeah it makes sense, though astral attunement -4 lightening is too much....feel like electrical weakness is more a materium thing with steel skin and golems...maybe spirit weakness?

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:10 PM

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Fiend, Celestial and Undead have 4 weakness to two damage channels each, so they have it worse, but Angelize makes up for it with faithful (supercharging the Shrine of Smiting) and immunity to berserk and MC, and Wightborn comes early and has life steal and the fairly strong morale loss immunity that shuts down the main point of Doomherald + Subjugation builds

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still, the idea of Astral Attunement just giving you a little bit of mana/research per pop and pass wall and then slapping a huge lightning weakness on your race without giving more in return is just 🤮

low sorrel Sep 17, 2023, 3:11 PM

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what would you add to make it better?

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:11 PM

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all or most of the ethereal status immunities, of course

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at least either the damage over time or crowd control ones

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ethereal units are still not immune to decay, anyway, which generally matters more than poison, bleed or burn

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and they can still be stunned, which I think is a bit more common than frozen

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:16 PM

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Yeah astral attunment being immune to decay would make it a nice counter to shadow and nature stuff

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:16 PM

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nah I said ethereal units are not immune to decay

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as much as I wish they were

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:16 PM

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whoops I read it as a suggestion that they sshould be

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and was agreeing

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since it needs a buff of some kind

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:17 PM

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I would say just give them full ethereal status

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maybe a little bit of extra physical defense as well as a nod to how ethereals worked in the previous games

low sorrel Sep 17, 2023, 3:18 PM

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sacred wedge at least either the damage over time or crowd control ones

This sounds to me a good middle point. Either one or other type of status immunity seems to balance things out while also making sense that astral attuned races are not on same ethereal level as proper ethereal creatures

low sorrel Sep 17, 2023, 3:19 PM

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sacred wedge I would say just give them full ethereal status

This wouldn't counter basically most of other builds combinations? thinkRat

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:20 PM

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decay is generally the only scary form of dot and ethereal does not block that

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and stun and slow can still affect ethereals

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shadow frost builds cannot hard disable ethereals, but they can still apply slow

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not to mention the broken transmuter in materium tomes with the range 6 aoe stun on 90% chance

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:23 PM

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Transmuters aren't broken

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:24 PM

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they have the cheapest, most overpowered disable in the game and their regular attacks have guaranteed sunder defense while making nearby bastions on their side even tankier

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if that is not busted, I do not know what is

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:28 PM

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its a tier iv unit, warlocks are pretty insane with their weakining and they're a culture unit you get after constructing a tier 2 city

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:28 PM

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warlocks are also only single target

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:28 PM

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Awakeners and exposing light are more powerful and busted

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:28 PM

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most other T4s are just slightly better T3s

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:30 PM

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They're the only battlemage unit in the entire materium line and industrial culture doesn't grant you one either I like them!

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:35 PM

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do you like being on the receiving end of their stuns too?

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:36 PM

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No but I don't like being blasted by cosmic purge either lol

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:38 PM

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at least a bastion hit by star purge or exposing light is not completely de-toothed for one turn

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 3:42 PM

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I'd care less if they gave materium a better ranged unit to use its missle buffs (extended range meteor arrows) but industry gets a tier 1 crossbow and Zephyer is locked behind a super situational tome with wind (am I on an island map?) Its annoying with bunches of them but I don't really see them spammed too often by ai maybe one or two in a late game army, I only find it annoying if there's 4+

sacred wedge Sep 17, 2023, 3:58 PM

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hopefully they get something like maybe a T4 hand-cranked gatling in Empires n Ashes

elfin pasture Sep 17, 2023, 4:53 PM

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Yeah that and maybe artillery like how order has shrine of smiting would be cool

#Resistances on Major and Minor Transformations