#siege time can be too long and boring.

40 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

golden ginkgo
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10+ siege time is too long. unless it is the capital i don't see the point. not only it becomes boring after 5 turns waiting you just idle there, fighting waves of defedners until the torture finishes.
and while you wait you see plenty of enemy troops going in and out. feels a bit silly.

golden ginkgo
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out of a 10 turn siege i had to kill the same enemy hero 3 times -.- . it's getting ridiculous

jade goblet
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Agreed. A 18 turns siege forced me to fight 4 armies of 18 high tier units. I defeated them but there was a fifth one coming yet again with the godir at the helm, so I had to retreat. Meanwhile my allies were prancing around but not actually attacking anything

inland orchid
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Allies exist to raze the countryside of the city you fought for while you're trying to annex it.

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I guess it evens out from all the junk they buy off you for top dollar.

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At least the sieges kind of pay for themselves with all the remains and items to sell.

golden ginkgo
golden ginkgo
# inland orchid At least the sieges kind of pay for themselves with all the remains and items to...

it's not about the reward, it's about the gameplay. being forced to not move for 10+ turns and having to face waves after waves of enemies gets boring after a while. and thats ONE city... so at that point you just go straight for the capital with an op force. because going there half assed will not let you tank all those waves of enemies. which force you to either rush or wait long enough to have a massive t3 + force. and that slow down the game overall.

not every one like to turtle down until you have an unbeatable force.

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but here you re kinda forced to play like this. (unless you had the opportunity to rush them if the map isn't too big)

inland orchid
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I was talking about allies.

golden ginkgo
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i only played story realms hard difficulty so far. (am at the 4th one) and in those the Ai is bugged and never attacks. they only pillage from time to time. (vassals doesn't do a thing either.)

so consider any potential allies useless in that scenario.

craggy jungle
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Are you not using siege projects? Mine are almost always 3-6 turns

shy mural
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yeah i wonder how you manage to have 10 or 18 (!!!) turns of a sieges
the longest siege i had was 8 turns vs an industrious ai

jade goblet
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Industrious AI, very late game

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Tier 1 units but really tough heroes, 3 siege projects

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In the end I forced the wizard king into vassalage because I couldn't bother to kill her

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And she defeated me because she had s higher score

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There was murder in my eyes when that happened 🤣

shy mural
cursive sphinx
jade goblet
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I used onagers, harass and battlements

subtle folio
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siege projects are really god damn expensive for the benefit of letting sieges occur in a sane amount of time

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this does help give defensive structures some actual value but i can't say i enjoy the resulting gameplay

golden ginkgo
golden ginkgo
valid needle
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Honestly my only issue with the wait was the ai somehow building 6 new full stacks of tier 4 and under troops every turn to throw at me when they only have three cities...like...even if I could fight that endlessly it wasn't fun. While there's more issues there...a lower siege time would have helped

quiet sparrow
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I can't exactly test it right now, but the formula seems to be what... a base amount of Fortification Damage + Fortification Damage from Siege Projects + Fortification Damage from units with Siege Breaker per turn?

If it's taking 10+ turns, like that, it's because you aren't using anything that's got enough fortification damage.
In your screenshot there, you're using Subjugating Raid (the wiki has that at +0 Fortification Damage) and Break Battlements (wiki has that at +2 Fortification Damage).
I don't know what's in your armies, but yeah, it's going to take a long time sieging something that's built up defenses, if you don't use siege projects that focus on breaking defenses?

Maybe they could adjust some of the numbers for Fortification Damage, maybe some of the gold/mana costs on the actual options, but... if you're using things like Subjugating Raid, Harass Defenders, etc. that don't do anything to the fortifications themselves, that's a trade-off decision that you made. Spend more time sieging to get a special effect

golden ginkgo
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i reloaded that save when i started to siege and if i used the catapult siege project it would have goen down to 8 turns. but i didn't had 250 gold to spare at that time just for 2 less turns.

quiet sparrow
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Headlong Assault in place of Subjugating Raid would've gotten it down to 7, at the cost of 20 damage to your units. Which, with T3+, at the ranks you have, that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Ranks alone would more than cover the health lost

shy mural
quiet sparrow
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Order doesn't seem to get any units with Siege Breaker though. Have to rely on vassal units & ancient wonders that add Bone Dragons or Fire Giants to the Rally, but that's not a guarantee for every map

Which, kinda fits with them? But also kinda sucks if you've got to go to war and siege
Doesn't help that the AI is kinda passive. If they'd siege for you, it'd be better, but.

quiet sparrow
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I do think some numbers need to be adjusted, though.

Looking at everything, assuming you have a Lost Tower (15/turn from the bombardment, 200 mana), Earthshatter Engines (10/turn), Devastator Spheres (8/turn), and one of the few 6/turn ones, you're at 39/turn.
Can be increased to 57/turn, with 3 stacks of nothing but Siege Breaker units (+18/turn).

Would take 3 turns (barely, you'll be at 114 out of 115 after 2 turns, but the last point still matters) for that city, with just basic improvements and a necrotic spires building

Feel like a siege-focused build like that should be a bit more effective, considering that's as min-maxed as you're gonna get, and that isn't really liable to happen often

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Oh, wait. Nevermind, I forgot the base 10/turn. 49/turn & 67/turn respectively.

3 vs 2 turns. I guess 2 turns is alright

But that still requires an optimized build, heavy Materium focused & the right Ancient Wonder. If you don't have those, you're looking at...

10 + Headlong Assault (5) + Onagers (3) + Undermining Walls (3).

21/turn, 6 turns minimum.

eager moth
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onagers and undermining walls should give 5 siege strength each! 😄 3 is too little!

craggy jungle
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I almost always go for onagers in the early game.

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250g isn't too expensive when you're taking out your oponent's capital and eliminating them for good

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There's better stuff as you research tomes, naturally

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And if you have 2 shrines of smiting you're definitely at the point in the game where you can get the +1 Siege project in the general tree

cursive sphinx
# craggy jungle I almost always go for onagers in the early game.

I agree. Yesterday i've take out a capital with 150 Fortification in less than 4 turns (~35 per turn was my breaking modifier). Siege mechanic is great. It takes long if you do not invest in that, and to be fair i find this normal. Constantinople was inpenetratebale more than 1000 years because attackers lacked the means to breach the walls...