Refunding the game

[digital tendon]

I have purchased the game as a Premium edition on GoG and will now refund it, I was really exited, it's a shame.

I am not willing to continue supporting Developers who adhere to the gender Ideology. My question if random rulers are created correctly sexed or not was never answered and I now have my answer.

Females, pardon you guys call it Body type 2s, with beards exist. Nonetheless I wish you good luck with your game but hope that the general audience will stop supporting this as well.

Guess I will return to the prior games in the series where sex still existed.

[peak trellis]

lol bye

[digital tendon]

👋

[robust zenith]

sorry what do you mean gender ideology?

[peak trellis]

dwarf woman get beards and theres no female or male symbols because the UI doesnt support it, the horror

[copper crest]

And here I was annoyed that the toads had boobs. 🤪

[digital tendon]

Is that a honest question? Gender Ideology is based on John Moneys experiments, in his theory there is a societal sex (gender) that is the defining factor on humans. You can read about him here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

The effects we can see all around us. I am really sure this can not be debated here, sicne it's dogmatic. so that is all I am pointing to.

[robust zenith]

its an honest question. i thought u were refunding the game due to game mechanics so i went into this thread

[digital tendon]

It's a mixture of the two isn't it? character customisation is a game mechanic. I am not bothered by peoples self-inserts but I am not willing to accept that in the game as a norm on character designs.

[subtle marsh]

Can you post proof of your refund? Cause without that, it's all talk.

[digital tendon]

Sure random person on the internet, I will provide proof of my refund to provide my real person cred, or something

[wanton mirage]

XD

[rustic geyser]

I still have no idea why he is refunding??

[digital tendon]

If you want to know why, I can tell you. What is it you are not understanding?

[errant marsh]

It is either because there are just two defined sexes, or that sexes are not defined enough gameplay wise?

[digital tendon]

Sex is and should be irrelevant gameplay wise. There is no issue there. There are just 2 sexes and even if "gender theory" was correct, it should not be used instead of sex.

[errant marsh]

What I agree on is that calling the sexes body type got me confused as well. Actually spend 2min looking for how switch gender before realizing this😁

[digital tendon]

I also left a review on the GoG store page to reflect my decision.

[lone trout]

If i want female elves with beards it's my right.
This game is about customization, creating the fantasy race that i want. You are being really petty over such a small thing

[unborn isle]

First of all, you have lot of issues in your world if you refund for that, but secondly and mostly why the hell couldn't you just watch 5 minute from one of the streams where you could clearly see the options before purchase LMAO 🤣

[digital tendon]

I have no issue with your self-Insert stuff.

[digital tendon]

I asked Jordi multiple times if random characters have these features and he never answered me. I have no issue with characters of players using beards, do what you want, don't bother me with it. Non of the streams showed this issue, I would have overlooked the body type thing if that was all there is.

[peak trellis]

what features?

[river prairie]

Imagine you are mad, because women have body hair.
Well real women also do habe beards and shave reguarly.

[peak trellis]

only dwarf women get beards

[digital tendon]

I have seen a gnome with a beard

[peak trellis]

thats a dwarf

[digital tendon]

uhm, no.

[peak trellis]

there is no gnome form

[river prairie]

Umh yes

[digital tendon]

halfing man

[unborn isle]

Imagine not only mad but refunded the game then come to talk like Karen about it 😄 jeez

[river prairie]

He never seen a real women before. 😦

[peak trellis]

halfling women dont even get beards

[regal ledge]

This

[river prairie]

Thats the sad thing...

[peak trellis]

its literally only dwarf women with the option to have beards

sad tbh, halfling women deserve beards too

[digital tendon]

I am married and have two kids...

[river prairie]

Than ask your wife;)

[digital tendon]

I would think this is kinda disrespectful, wouldn't you think?

[unborn isle]

That's sad too, but I heard the kids always smarter 😅

[digital tendon]

My wife is completely on board with me on this.

[river prairie]

True

[peak trellis]

refunding because dwarf women get beards lol

[digital tendon]

It's a great reason, isn't it? It's a also the sum of all parts.

[river prairie]

Hes just trolling i guess. Or extremly stupid.

[peak trellis]

👍

[lone trout]

I mean this does show one thing, the game is so good that people only refund over petty reasons

[digital tendon]

Tbh I agree, the game is great otherwise

[unborn isle]

It's your fault that you stay out of it.

[digital tendon]

Fault is such a strong word, for a reasonable decision. It's worhwhile for me to not support things I do consider harmful, I will certainly survive.

[verbal temple]

Out of curiosity, how do you find dwarf women having beards harmful?

[digital tendon]

I don't think dwarf women having beards as harmful

I think the gender theory, by John money, is.

[unborn isle]

What your kinda people always say? Do it in your bedroom, private matter, etc. So my advice for you is the same, because what you say is maybe also harmful for others.

[digital tendon]

what Kind of "people" am I?

[verbal temple]

I do feel like you're a kind of person to imagine something on your own and get offended by the very thing you imagined

Forcibly

[digital tendon]

No, I don't think I am

[unborn isle]

Let's see, a guy who has problem with that a videogame options are body type 1 and 2 instead of male and female and purchase this game without look 5 min from a stream to what are the gender options if this guy bothers by it's nonsense, and then refund it then like Karen make a post about it, damn you have lot of free time and for me you look like a .... 😄

[verbal temple]

By your messages, it really makes it seem like you are...

[digital tendon]

Or it's your preconceptions of what people are when you disagree with them

[verbal temple]

At the same kind, you can refund the game for any thing you wish for, even if other people find it to be absurd and amusing

But remember it's not an airport

You don't need to announce your departure

[digital tendon]

Ah, I am not announcing it to you. When i developed games I was happy for feedback on why people deemed the product as bad enough for refund. I just forward the same courtesy to Triumph with my post, marked as "feedback"

[frigid rivet]

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[digital tendon]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((:

[frigid rivet]

😄

I hope they do a shadow magic remaster!

[west python]

Funny thing is, if I didn't heard from you of John Money, I wouldn't have had known of him. He seems like a dickhead though..but I don't see any connection to AoW 4.

y'know fantasy and all that.

[digital tendon]

He has no connection to AoW 4, but he is the reason the idea of gender identity exists.

[west python]

So be honest

You dislike all the gender things and it makes you feel bad to be confronted about it.

That's not the fault of the developers though

[digital tendon]

Dislike is not the word I would use. I believe it is harmful, especially looking at it from the perspective of a father. And seeing it used also in entertainment is extremely worrysome indeed

[atomic quarry]

Sooo it's worse than genocide?

[jagged holly]

Hi Lord of Riva, sorry to hear that this has lessened your experience - may I ask though if the bearded female character was dwarfish form or of another form? Because the beards are only intended to show up for dwarven female characters, which is for lore reasons (it is a shared consensus by many that dwarf women may have beards), so if it happened for another form I would kindly ask you to report this as a bug.

Other than that I ask you all to be friendly to each other. 🙂 (though the trend of this conversation has been going in the right direction already, as far as I could see)

[atomic quarry]

You actually can commit in game?

[frigid rivet]

well, the powers that be made a massive intrusion with the lgb++ ideology, and most western european countries adapted that pretty early, that's why... it must be politically correct, especially in corporate environments, or else........................................................ best course of action would be live and let live, without projecting negative shadow on the uncontrollable, thus not suffering uselessly!

[digital tendon]

Thank you for your kind answer. If this is a bug I will gladly reconsider repurchasing the game. These debates often tend to be very, let's say energetic, I will try to stay respectful

[jagged holly]

It is a sensible topic for sure, whichever side of the argument you are on.
So reporting this would be really great, especially if you can actually call out which form the character had. We received some other reports like this in past hours since launch and it seems that sometimes dwarf characters were confused with another form such as e.g. a halfling, while they were actually dwarvish.

[frigid rivet]

alternatively, you can use the function of both brain hemispheres for selective denial (left brain) and ignoring (right brain) certain aspects of the game that make you uncomfortable, while putting focus on things you enjoy and that make you feel about while playing it!

[digital tendon]

I just want to point out that Jordi could have avoided this if he had answered the steam topics regarding random characters and body-type/pronousn adequately. If this is indeed just a bug I have now refunded the game and also written a mixed review due to an issue that is non existant/is unintended. And I do not think I can change the review.

[frigid rivet]

good thing we don't see trans elves with big black shoulders - that would be waaay over the line. :)) but who knows, in 5-10 years how society progresses in it's perceptions of gender...

and there's one hermetic axiom of gender which can be found here: https://www.hermetics.net/media-library/hermetic/the-kybalion/2-the-seven-hermetic-principles/ (interesting read, for those who are into this type of thing) 😄

[digital tendon]

I am with you evilpuppy but as it was with the other guys this is outside of the discussion, wouldn't you say?

Let's focus on the topic and then be done with it.

[frigid rivet]

yes, you're right!

in defense of the devs, adhering to this leads to to making the game available to a bigger player base, more profits, better business (from a financial point of view) and less offensive for certain people... 😄 so empathizing with them on this... if I were to make a game the way I want it (without societal restraint) the game wouldn't see the light of day... and alas... the way AOW4 is... it's what the majority wants... ok, not writing any longer on this subject, going now! 😄 byeeee!

[jagged holly]

Yes, some clarity would have helped for sure, my apologies for that. Though Jordi has been a champ going through hundreds of player questions and topics during the last weeks. For a sensible topic like this it is better to not answer if you are not 100% sure of your facts, which is why I had to check in with some ppl too before responding.

In any case, while of course we are not happy about refunds or negative reviews, as long as this opens up the possibility of you enjoying the game in the future afterall that is also a win. 😉

[digital tendon]

I have asked to cancel the refund on GoG, not sure if they do that. Thanks again for being so reasonable about it, this is perfect and how it should be.

[vestal hedge]

I can understand bearded dwarven women, but if you're saying that generated rulers pick titles/pronouns independently of gender then that is a concern for me too.
Not worth refunding over, but certainly worth complaining about.
Don't let these people shut you up Riva, but also consider rejoining us sometime 🙂
(is what I was about to say but apparently I'm late, welcome back!)

[unborn isle]

I'm out of this conversation but still you can easily check things before purchase, also wait for confimation before cancel, two dumb moves from 1 people over 1 petty thing, how you can manage life tbh. But yeah I'm out because I couldn't be that polite like these awesome devs LOL.

[atomic quarry]

Yeah, there is no point to argue on that here, I'm just happy about general reaction to that thread.
Remember, the power of fantasy is in diversity ❤️

[verbal temple]

When I first found this thread I thought pronouns may be the most sensitive topic, it really surprised me that dwarven ladies with beard was the problem instead

[digital tendon]

it never was though. It was non-dwarf women with beards

[verbal temple]

As far as I know, it was already confirmed there are none of such, no?

[digital tendon]

no

[atomic quarry]

... it was

[digital tendon]

There were bearded women of other forms, due to a bug as you can see in Eomolchs post above

[atomic quarry]

Like here

[digital tendon]

in the random hero/leader generation

[atomic quarry]

I think that was explained as people confused dwarfs with other races

[digital tendon]

So I am pretty sure there is a language problem here: the issue has now been resolved. But they were a thing due to a bug. EDIT: you are right that it was not a bug but a user error.

[atomic quarry]

It is a sensible topic for sure, whichever side of the argument you are on.
So reporting this would be really great, especially if you can actually call out which form the character had. We received some other reports like this in past hours since launch and it seems that sometimes dwarf characters were confused with another form such as e.g. a halfling, while they were actually dwarvish.

[digital tendon]

Why are we even talking about this now: The issue is now clear

it has now been cleared up

It had not been when I started the thread

Is that okay now?

[atomic quarry]

Sure, just explaining that it was never an issue and it wasn't fixed

[digital tendon]

ok

[atomic quarry]

You just thought that it was non-dwarf woman with beard, but this is a dwarf woman with beard which is ok even if you are not okay with non-dwarf woman with beard in fantasy game

[digital tendon]

Yeah, it's okay. The relevant issue is that we now know that only dwarven women should have beards. That could have been cleared up but was not before Eomolchs message

[unborn isle]

And you also stated originally that the devs are adhere some kind of a gender ideology which is also false!

[atomic quarry]

Sure, I see now

[distant ridge]

Perhaps the issue here is that random generated dwarfs are too tall, getting mistaken for humans? if that's the case, then just make them shorter when they get random generated! End of story!

[digital tendon]

No, as a paradox studio they still have stuff like "Body type 1 and 2"

[digital tendon]

Could be

[atomic quarry]

Thanks for making my day, good luck with getting pre-order bonuses if you had some after returning game tho

[digital tendon]

I do not pre-order games

[unborn isle]

But when you finally get your attention you said you buy it again, like there is no problem anymore, so you still have problems?

[digital tendon]

I still have a problem with this. It's just not that pronounced

I have no issue with self-inserts and I will survive a string of text in game. I just don't want to be bothered with this stuff while playing the game

[unborn isle]

Glad you survive this, what a relief 😄

[digital tendon]

thanks; I am glad as well

[lone trout]

🧔‍♀️
But i do agree that the existence of this emoji is blasphemy

[hexed coyote]

Could not follow the logic in here at all. Seems to be many unkind assumptions being made between each step.

[digital tendon]

I agree, I do not know why these discussions always derail like this.

[hexed coyote]

I was referring to your logic.

[digital tendon]

I assumed that was the case, based on the lack of specificity, but I could not stop myself to joke about it either. 🤷‍♂️

[hexed coyote]

I'm not wasting my time trying to understand anyone else in this thread XD

My fault for trying to read it when I'm already sleep deprived and just spent an hour doing numbers. -_-

[digital tendon]

The topic has been solved in any case, so it can be safely ignored. Most of it is irrelevant at this point

[verbal temple]

I feel like most of it wasn't relevant at any point of time...

Just the culture of outrage. Getting upset over something that wasn't in the game in the first place (disliked ideology or bearded women that aren't dwarves)

[digital tendon]

Don't be so hard on yourself

[jagged holly]

Generated rulers/heroes not sticking to the pronouns matching body type should not happen; if you spot an instance of that, please report it as a bug too!

It is specifically an optional player character only feature. (though your creations can show up in later games as AI rulers if you desire)

[digital tendon]

I really do not think that a debate about this is appropriate here, still there is sexual dimorphism and exceptions do not change the rule. In other words, it's irrelevant

[split elbow]

I can't believe this guy thinks women with beards are such a disgrace that he has to post 30+ messages about it on a discord server 💀

[celest grove]

lol this is pretty lame, sounds like attention seeking more than anything else. I'm anti-woke but I'm not gonna refund a whole game because developers made a choice like that xD

They're not forcing it on you ya know

[digital tendon]

The entertainment industry kinda, is. As is politics, but in this case the issue could have been avoided if a clear answer had been given prior to release.

[celest grove]

they showed it in livestreams

You really got no one to blame here but yourself lol

[digital tendon]

They showed in livestreams that randomly created heroes and lords that are female could not have beards?

Which one?

Apart from the fact that It is not reasonable to expect every customer to watch all streams, either

[celest grove]

well no, creating a leader shows it. If you can make it in create a leader, random can definitely do it too. And the ones you recruit you can customize in single player.

[digital tendon]

That does not show the issue at hand, which was randomly generated heroes with beards that are female

[celest grove]

oke then kill them if you hate that so much

I really don't see the issue

[digital tendon]

That won't be necessary as they are not featured, this issue could have been resolved by better communication. But why continue this we are repeating ourselves

[celest grove]

they are not featured? So you want females with beards?

[digital tendon]

You don't want to see it, the issue is clearly described. You do not think it's an issue, thats fine but besides the point

[digital tendon]

no

[celest grove]

Oke man have fun refunding the game I guess. bye o/

[digital tendon]

\o

[dire cipher]

Wait so is the actionable feedback actually "dwarf women should not have beards" or am I missing something

Dwarf women having beards is not a fresh new trope ignoring whatever the gender theory nonsense is

I don't understand why any women having beards is a problem

If a woman wants a beard let her do so, whether by way of natural bodily processes or by wearing a beard-wig

[digital tendon]

yes

The issue was that outside of dwarfs other randomly created females have beards. This however is either a bug or misinterpretation by other players as it is not intended behavior.

The rest is irrelevant, glad you have your opinion.

[dire cipher]

me too. and as long as i am sharing my opinion: what a ridiculous reason to make a big public show of requesting a refund for lmao

[digital tendon]

it has been noted and promptly forgotten.

[dire cipher]

is it your intention to continue reacting to every comment on your public spectacle with the insistence that you do not care what others think

[digital tendon]

Yes, as long as I am around, why not? I get notifications on this thread I opened.

[dire cipher]

did u kno: you can mute the thread

[digital tendon]

But I do not intend to do that, I am not bothered by me responding

[dire cipher]

lmao

[bleak moth]

So.. genuine question, what did you want? Not to seem rude I'm just curious and can't read the whole thread while I'm at work

[dire cipher]

he wanted a refund

he also wanted everyone to know why he was refunding it

he also wants to continue letting everyone know that he doesn't care what they think

only his opinion matters, you see

[bleak moth]

Well yes I gathered they wanted a refund, I mean more why they wanted a refund lol. Because the option of gender is available?

Or.. because bearded women are a thing in the game?

[mystic mirage]

I thought female dwarves having beards was already stablished by tolkien. and more important...why are so many people answering a clown post? xD

[dire cipher]

There were female (non-dwarf) leaders being generated with beards due to a bug. He believed it was intentional and some kind of gender theory culture war battlefront and saw fit to fire his shot

[rugged stratus]

seems he wanted female to be only female and somehow got a potentional bugged/ potentional he mislooked small figure of a lady with a beard which can be a halfing or dwarf one beign a bug other being hismsitake

[bleak moth]

Ah.. certainly a weird hill to die on in 2023 lol.

If it bothers you that much, pillage and raze their kingdom, establish dominance 😤

[mystic mirage]

@bleak moth not necessarily...i'm not a fan of the "body type" culture myself...but asking for a refund and crying about it on discord is kind of a 2head thing to do. Imagine missing in games like hogwarts legacy because of the "body type" thing

[rugged stratus]

i mean what if aow has elfes females with beards? we cant compare to realworld and say some weird propaganda, its a fantasy race, only for humans u could maybe say something

[mystic mirage]

if certain individuals dont want to accept nature and biology is their own problem. ALTHOUGH...i still think dwarven women with beards kind of should be a thing no problem

[slate musk]

This tbh. Especially in a highly moddable game with tons of customization.

[bleak moth]

Just enjoy the game

I'm going to make a race of human woman with beards now and fight the power

[rugged stratus]

curious question why dwarfs and not say elfes or halfigns or toads?

[river prairie]

Well its a fantasy game...

[bleak moth]

Snoosnoo or die

[rugged stratus]

i was about to say soemthign liek this for mp games yesXD

[bleak moth]

The race will be called umadbro? It will be glorious

[rugged stratus]

we should find a way to make it offical and share it to all ❤️

[bleak moth]

Anyway, back to work I go. What an interesting thread, have a good day everyone 🙂

[mystic mirage]

tolkien, pretty much.

[wet summit]

Ah, yes. Refunding a game due to a customization option which shows once in a millennia, when you use a completely optional setting. Some people just choose weirdest hills to die on.

[rugged stratus]

tolkien didnt rote a bible though and enver talked about toad peopleXD

[mystic mirage]

He did set a massively strong base in fantasy that pretty much everyone developed their stuff from tho

[rugged stratus]

and alot did also changestuff a bit around it he made some ground works but thigns did evolve

[slate musk]

He actually did lol

[rugged stratus]

ground work is not a bible

[slate musk]

No he literally wrote a bible

The Jerusalem Bible

It was one of his pet projects

[mystic mirage]

It is when the fans of fantasy appreciate his work the most and take it as the core of everything. fans dont like when you change stuff pointlessly. And to be fair the toadkin here are weird too but the devs said its because of the cosmetics. Like them having booba

[rugged stratus]

but im curious from @mystic mirage if some races are acceptalbe for him that tolkien enver wrote about as the moles or toads

but u cana ccept toads and moels with beards or only dwarfs cause tolkien?

thats what im askingXD

[slate musk]

Toads with hair in general is a bit… odd

[rugged stratus]

also a huge fan of tolkien ehre dont get me wrong

[rugged stratus]

walking on 2 legs toads with bows or great axes etc is oddXD

[slate musk]

I am going to go outside and stick a wig on a cane toad

[rugged stratus]

if we add hair or beards or boobs or not it stays odd anywayXD

[dire cipher]

can we just cut to the chase and say that it's because dwarf women having beard is a pre-established and accepted trope and therefore Exempt from stupid culture war garbage, but because women having beards is like tangentially a culture war battlefront people want to be performatively upset about its inclusion otherwise despite any other logic that would otherwise apply to dwarves

[rugged stratus]

i woudl say the dwarf rule should apply to all fantasy races rules XD only humans we cna kdian say look at real world

[dire cipher]

human women can have beards too tho

no reason why they can't

aside from some human women definitely being able to grow them, bald people can have hair. they wear a wig.

why care so much about limiting people like that

[digital tendon]

I do not want to support a dev that adheres to gender Ideology. That is all, since the issue has cleared up this is moot though.

[digital tendon]

Sexual dimorphism is a thing, it's not comparable or a mutation. Women do not have the same amount of facial hair as men do.

[solemn gazelle]

So, let me guess this straight. You are speaking about sexual dimorphism in a fantasy dwarf race? That live in the same world as anthropomorphic frogs, moles, cats; elves, orcs goblins, undead, elementals and dragons?

[dire cipher]

who cares (sexual dimorphism in humans is also substantially more complex and less binary than you are describing here)

[digital tendon]

On the matter of Fantasy: This stuff is not created through creative freedom in a fantasy setting. You people do realize that gender is a thing that is politically pushed right? Why pretend that it's something unrelated to that again?

[digital tendon]

I care and reality cares

[dire cipher]

you are, right this moment, politically pushing gender politics

[bleak moth]

It's a fantasy game though.. surprised it bothers you that much tbh. Regardless, you're entitled to your opinion though, hope you find the game that's right for you

[dire cipher]

i assure you that the forest does not care about people having beards

[digital tendon]

No, I speak about gender ideology and our society. Not fantasy

[indigo jetty]

"My imaginary characters in my imaginary world fantasy game don't look like I imagine my sister would look if I had one, Waaah!" LOL

[digital tendon]

I don't think that forests care much about anything, I wonder how they percieve the world

[rugged stratus]

while talkign about it cause of a fantasyrace?

[dire cipher]

reality only cares if you and people like you care

you are creating the problem by caring

[wet summit]

Matey, you are the only one bringing politics into this whole thing. You literally are making an issue out of thin air.

[rugged stratus]

i mean it is known tres communicate with each other so who knows what they do and do not know

[digital tendon]

Talking about it in the context of entertainment and media. If I were to argue that stereotypes of queer people are harmful you would argee with me, wouldn't you?

[lone trout]

Once i unlock forest awareness in tier V nature tome i will percieve the forest

[digital tendon]

Why would I see it differently in this case

[rugged stratus]

int hat sense any stereo type is harmfull positive or engative

[digital tendon]

I do not think I am, I am by far not the only one bringing this up in the forums it's just that I am posting in the hornets nest.

[wet summit]

Yes you are, matey.

[solemn gazelle]

You didn't read a lot of fantasy stories, did you?

[wet summit]

Oh, and by the way.

[digital tendon]

I do not think they are inherently harmful, but you agree that media, and the perception thereof is relevant ?

[rugged stratus]

if we cannot use any stereotype why do all my humans ahve 2 arms and 2 lkegs and all ehalthy?

[wet summit]

This whole thread you made is kinda against server rules, isn't it?

[digital tendon]

then you understand why I would argue the way I do

[solemn gazelle]

The whole "dwarf women have beards" is a joke that existed for at least 15 years

[digital tendon]

Sure, people can stop debating politics whenever they want to

[rugged stratus]

i dont agree with that only with that some people can see it harmfull while msot tend not to, i know the stereotypes about my coutnry and yet while not fitting for me i dotn see it harmfull

[dire cipher]

you explicitly created this topic to be political lmao

[digital tendon]

And it is completely irrelevant in this thread as the thread was specifically beards on non-dwarven women

[digital tendon]

I created this thread to give game feedback

and got confirmation from the devs on an issue.

[dire cipher]

your game feedback is that the game (or at least, your perception of it) does not adhere to your personal politics

[digital tendon]

No, that is not my feedback

[dire cipher]

this is inherently a political topic you are the one inserting politics

[rugged stratus]

it may not been what you tried to give as feedback but it is what most read here

[dire cipher]

"I am not willing to continue supporting Developers who adhere to the gender Ideology" is a political statement in the op

[wet summit]

makes a weird rant about "Gender Ideology"
"gUyS, tHiS iS nOt AbOuT pOliTiCs!!!"

[digital tendon]

Thanks, meaning it's those making it a political debate, that are the issue?

[rugged stratus]

see what ninjew said, that made it olitical evne if u didnt intend to you did make it, not others

[digital tendon]

I would rather point to what you said, because that strikes me as true

[rugged stratus]

as i said your intention may not be there but you did make it political

[digital tendon]

And my intention is what counts, clearly it is the intention of others to make this political?

[solemn gazelle]

Well, I wash my hands off this topic then, thought you meant the old joke about dwarves.

[digital tendon]

no issue with that joke in the least

[rugged stratus]

not really, sicne we type we cannot see itnetion as much as when we talk

[digital tendon]

Well, if you respectfully assume that someone means well this issue does not exist

[rugged stratus]

but then u think peopel can ssume what you mean without knopwing you

and to trust in goodness of people and humanity is a lsot boat atleast for me

[digital tendon]

No, if you do not understand where someone is coming from you ask.

[dire cipher]

man refunds game and publicly yells about it to all who will listen, insists that it is because of """gender ideology""", then attempts to claim that he is not the political one here

[rugged stratus]

the way you wrote it i couldnt assume you meant well it sounded or karen like or troll,

[dire cipher]

this is like a child's version of political activism (and definitely being done by a child)

[digital tendon]

I do think that most people here are wrong, those who argue against me, not anything bad or something

[rugged stratus]

i mean doesnt ened to be a child many karens are 40+ and act like thatXD

[rugged stratus]

50/50 on its a karen or a troll that feeds on drama

[digital tendon]

You can spin that as much as you want. I had an issue, that has been adressed. The rest is you guys trying to have a political debate on this issue

[dire cipher]

they,too, are children

[dire cipher]

you are driving the conversation

[digital tendon]

So is there a way you can debate this topic, from my position, without you guys assuming I am a karen or a troll?

[rugged stratus]

depends on how we define children, by physical age or mental age

[digital tendon]

If so, how ?

[dire cipher]

by behavior

[rugged stratus]

if u say if u argue agaisnt me you are bad then no

that one sentence made it clear you were one of the two,

[digital tendon]

So, I am bad for having a differing opinion?

[dire cipher]

correct

you got it

[rugged stratus]

no. but you say we are bad cause we got different opinion

[digital tendon]

I have never said that, i said the opposite. I said just because I think you are wrong does not mean you are bad or anything

[rugged stratus]

litterly u say we are wrogn cause we disagree with you. litterly here

[digital tendon]

no I said you are wrong

not because you disagree, but because you are wrong?

compared to NINJEW who just said I am a bad person because I have a different opinion.

You should consider who's position here is reasonable

[rugged stratus]

i mean it soudned like u said that about us before

[dire cipher]

your reading comprehension is impeccable

[digital tendon]

Ok, but i never did and never meant it either

[digital tendon]

Thanks

[rugged stratus]

u did but u didnt mean it, again what u intent and write can be different.

[digital tendon]

No I did not, i specifcally said you aren't bad people for disagreeing with me

I just think you guys are, wrong.

[rugged stratus]

what u try to say and say are 2 different thigns sometimes

[digital tendon]

No, you just think it is.

[dire cipher]

he's playing "polite hitler" don't fall for getting into decorum arguments with him

[digital tendon]

I think this topic and the political leanings are very harmful. You will disagree on that. Now I know that most people are not coming from a bad position into this but that does not change the matter that it's simply wrong.

[dire cipher]

it's not wrong. unfortunately your level of ability to debate the point is dwarfed by your desire to participate in the debate

[digital tendon]

I am always polite, at least as much as I can. I do not appreciate you calling me this though.

[wet summit]

"Dwarfed", ha.

That's a good one.

[digital tendon]

meh

[digital tendon]

Yes, you seem like a very reasonable person.

Rooted in reality and all

[dire cipher]

hm. good, well articulated points. "what you are saying is not rooted in reality" with no further elaboration? masterful intellectual conversation good sir

[digital tendon]

I don't have to, tbh. There is nothing to say to that, I doubt you are interested in debate, and sling unreasonable insults around. What should I say to that?

[dire cipher]

if you are truly the reasonable one here: nothing

that is not the path you have elected though

you continue to insist on participating in a discussion that you refuse to provide any substance to

that's really just the long and short of it

what is there for anyone to say to you?

[digital tendon]

Well, people revive the debate and I chime in

[dire cipher]

i would not call what has been happening here "chiming in"

maybe you do

[digital tendon]

that's fine you can call it whatever

[dire cipher]

you are well rooted in reality afterall

[river prairie]

<@&947815420835016775>

Stop feeding the troll.

[dire cipher]

come on @tidal coral hit me

do it

[digital tendon]

I think it's feeding- eh he corrected it already

All in all the topic can be closed, I am fine with that. The issue has been resolved long before this nonsense

[wet summit]

Frankly, the best way to end this one - this whole thread is made in order to cause a political debate and therefore is against server rules.

[digital tendon]

This is not the case, but it's okay, since it has run it's course anyways

[dire cipher]

no, lets debate further on whether or not "I am not willing to continue supporting Developers who adhere to the gender Ideology" is or is not a political statement

[river prairie]

Pretty obvious. Dont know why mods sleeping and devs even replying to that troll...

[digital tendon]

Imagine thinking giving feedback on a player issue can't be taken without attaching political ideologies to it. Again the issue can be closed as it's solved, alternatively people can stop participating themselves, there is no reason to prolong this.

[dire cipher]

you attached the political ideology to it

[digital tendon]

uhuh

[dire cipher]

you specifically assigned a political position to something you observed in the game and then came here to get mad about it

that is literally what "I am not willing to continue supporting Developers who adhere to the gender Ideology" means

[digital tendon]

I informed the devs as a player on feedback for the game

[dire cipher]

your feedback was based in politics

[digital tendon]

That is what I would have appreciated as a dev myself

You think so, it is not the case

[dire cipher]

no one is arguing that you didn't give feedback

so is gender dieology not political

if not: none of this has been political

and i am safe from the modhammer as well

[digital tendon]

Gender ideology is political, the rest is not

[dire cipher]

ok and you brought up gender ideology

ergo...

come on man you can put this one together

[digital tendon]

I did not ask to debate this, people did

[dire cipher]

i believe in you

you posted it publicly

[digital tendon]

I said I am going to refund the game

[dire cipher]

you are continuing to participate in a discussion where your nonparticipation would kill the debate

don't pretend you're some innocent apolitical party here lmao we all have eyeballs

[digital tendon]

What i said in essence is that I do not appreciate political statements like this in my game

[dire cipher]

that's politics

that is political

[digital tendon]

I am not an apolitical actor as a person, no. In this thread on this matter? I certainly am

Not everything is political

[dire cipher]

politics is political though

you yourself said gender ideology is political

[digital tendon]

Yeah but Videogames aren't?

[dire cipher]

you brought politics into this discussion at the outset

[dire cipher]

true, therefore they can not contain gender ideology

[digital tendon]

When I tell someone "I do not appreciate you political positioning in my enterntainment" that is political for you?

How else am i going to say that I do not want this in my game?

[dire cipher]

100% the definition of political yes

[dire cipher]

there is no way to make a political statement without being political

so the answer is "by being political"

which is what you did

congradulations

[digital tendon]

Is that so? so when I look at a dictionary I will find what I said as definition? I doubt it.

[rugged stratus]

that makes it litterly poltical yes

[digital tendon]

nope

[dire cipher]

you should look up rhetoric in the dictionary

[digital tendon]

hes closing it now anyways

[hollow sandal]

Alright break this up

[digital tendon]

have a good one guys !

[dire cipher]

hit me

do it