What other races would you like to see?

[torpid plover]

I think that depends on the type of ogre you think of but yeah that could work

[gentle nymph]

well in aow

there 1 type of ogre

racially

[torpid plover]

Okay well I never played any of the other games so not sure what their races look like

The only ones I'm familiar with are planetfall

[gentle nymph]

damn

bot wont let me link the picture

https://assets2.rockpapershotgun.com/Combat3.jpg/BROK/resize/1920x1920>/format/jpg/quality/80/Combat3.jpg

ok

the one on the left

is an ogre from 4

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/age-of-wonders-3/images/e/ec/Art_Troll_Ogre.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141022135658

and these from 3

@torpid plover

[torpid plover]

Okay that seems more fitting for Ice Giant in my mind

Have they ever done a bug man one?

[late rock]

shadow demons

[torpid plover]

Bugs are not the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that

[late rock]

https://www.g4li.org/age-of-wonders-shadow-magic/images/449_15_40-waffen-logo-totem.jpg

[torpid plover]

Well that's interesting

[late rock]

https://aow2.heavengames.com/aowsm/gameinfo/units/shadowdemons.shtml

and also Kir'ko from Planetfall, who also kind of look like Shadow Demons

[naive rose]

and here I am thinking that halfling warlords were brave in their choice of partners...

[gentle nymph]

ogres too sexy

[naive rose]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-gif-26102346

[near plaza]

Rock + nature

Make em big and rocky

[torpid plover]

But imagine the possibilities of it's all ogres now

[near plaza]

For shrek just go wirh orcs, there are ogres but you prolly cant have then as your leafer

[gentle nymph]

btw honestly

siece we getting actual ogres unlikely

i would try to make fat orcs

maybe could get a bit similar

but not much

specially if supergrowth adds vines and leafs on you

or u could make pink skinned orcs

and say they half ogres

sience you can give any name to your race

[honest storm]

Maybe, Lizard people and birdfolk. Maybe some kind of cyborg thingy. But i expect that to be a tome thing probably

[unborn moat]

Don't know if people already talked about it but a eldritch looking race ... or just an octopus race we could do fun thing with it

[untold canyon]

Octolings would be rad. The "bad guy" ones that dress like terminators.

[maiden prism]

I think that's copwrited

[near plaza]

Good chance the final dlc will have something like thaf

[honest storm]

Agreed octopus race would be cool

[lofty steeple]

Trolls , which we havent seen yes in game

[gentle nymph]

we did

[lofty steeple]

when were trolls shown?

[gentle nymph]

https://assets2.rockpapershotgun.com/Combat3.jpg/BROK/resize/1920x1920>/format/jpg/quality/80/Combat3.jpg

look the one with the net

[lofty steeple]

thats a troll?

[gentle nymph]

obviously

[lofty steeple]

i dont think it look as a troll

[gentle nymph]

so what it is

(spoiler alert its a troll)

[steep magnet]

There's a kharagh, a troll and an ogre in that picture

[gloomy sparrow]

just like frostlings are a transformation, I expect draconians will be as well. Likewise, shadow demons would work best as a transformation due to unit model meshes, same with spider kin and merfolk.

[proud gale]

Ditto for illithids, there should be a tentacule transformation

[gentle nymph]

@lofty steeple

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/72/68/8e7268bb6148cf75f149dfadcbe5023c.jpg

[compact bone]

Possibly in the Eldritch DLC

[honest storm]

Frostlings are bluish small people with frost resistance if I am not misstaken. There is a form for small people. So a transformation makes sense even tho people are unhappy that frostling from AoE3 isn’t in AoE4. But there is no transformation that makes sense for draconian. And if I am not misstaken it has been revealed that draconian are joining in a DLC later on.

[gloomy sparrow]

The dlc draconian transformation is what I was referring to.

I understand why people might not enjoy the fact that frostlings aren't an innate form, but considering forms don't have any stats associated with them, it makes sense.

There's also the fact that it seems like people will be able to pick leaders that have joined their pantheon. So once you've created and played a frostling race, you'll have access to them in future games.

Also consider the frostlings from aow3 seemed to have multiple forms. the basic t1 units all seemed to have a dwarven form, but white witches had human / elf proportions.

[honest storm]

Wouldn’t they be considered halflings? But makes sense I guess that everything is transformations. I know the characters will be replayable. Sure the races transformations will follow over aswell? Or you mean that frostlings will be unlocked in the pantheon system?

[gloomy sparrow]

I'm just saying what it seems like will happen based on what we've seen in various game play sessions reveled so far. And yeah, the transformation seems to carry over in the pantheons.

That allows for a much greater variety of races, since the transformations and other stats seem to be intrinsically linked to the races. You can even give the created race a custom name.

[steep magnet]

I find it helps personally to think of the frostling transformation not so much as anything to do with the previous Frostlings, despite the name, and more to do with the white walkers of GoT.

[sage grove]

Umm, okay, I have to admit I don't quite understand why you would do that

I've been told frostlings were always a transformation in the lore, so dragging GoT into this seems weird to me 🤔

[steep magnet]

Frostlings were never a transformation before.

They were always their own race, basically Goblins adapted for the cold, and later mingled with northern/cold fey, and imho one of the more unique, interesting and fun to play races.

That's why veterans of the series were expecting to see them as a form, not a transformation.

By making them a transformation, any form can become a Frostling, and the result is not what the Frostlings were, for better or worse.

Hence, as an aid to the dissonance, think of the transformation as targeting the white walker fantasy.

It also ties in with the current discussion of whether draconian will be a form or a transformation

Lore wise, the draconians were formed when the almost extinct red dragons sacrificed their eggs to wizard Kings.

So there is argument for them to be a form.

But the Frostling transformation is an argument for them potentially being a transformation.

[late rock]

gameplay mechanics too

imagine taking the frostling form and giving it desert adaptation

and I imagine a frostling form would be redundant if you could put blue skin on goblins or halflings or what-have-you

[steep magnet]

Good point. Although, devils advocate, super powerful magic to overcome a weakness 😉

[late rock]

draconians as a form would be missing out on things like hatchlings and fliers

vs draconian culture and tomes

[steep magnet]

No idea what is being considered for the drac dlc. As a transformation, points either way.

I think if there is a transformation it meshes better with everything already in the game

And a culture could be based on worshipping dragons 🤔

[late rock]

to be fair you could lead frostlings and have fire spheres/specialization to make up for their fire weakness and diversify their damage (white witches' frozen flames and castigate notwithstanding), and I don't see the problem with taking both tome of pyromancy and cryomancy, I think the main problem with frostlings as a form is that it reduces them to a name and appearance like the goblins and etc., frostlings just aren't frostlings without being inherently frosty

like their very concept to me seems more unfitting and inflexible for the form system than goblinoids and orcoids in that regard

[near plaza]

Why i agree that its a shame frostlings lose their innate flavor

They also retain having unique stats

And they wete always frost adapted goblins

So it makes sense for them to be a transform of adapting goblins to frost you know

[late rock]

imo frostlings as a form would have lost even more of that frostling feel and innate flavor than frostlings as a transformation

and imo would be redundant since appearance wise they were basically colder, blue-er goblins (or humans/elves in the case of heroes and white witches/queens)

[near plaza]

I guess 3d frostlings are more unique

But whose nostalgic for 3s frostlings

Admittedly 3s frostlings and tigrans had the most unique units

[late rock]

that's what i was referring to

[near plaza]

But thats just the territory that comed with dlc races

[late rock]

tbh a lot of people are pretty nostalgic for 'em, I reckon, but I think their unit roster, mechanics and heavy use of cold defined them more than their appearance

[near plaza]

I hope manmoth riders are a unit from a frodt tome

[late rock]

same tbh

or an ancient wonder

[gloomy sparrow]

I'm guessing noob was saying lore wise frostlings were a transformation, not that they were a transformation in terms of game mechanics.

[gloomy sparrow]

the draconian transformation could give the empire hatchling units as an additional buildable unit. Alternatively, maybe the transformation would only be available to the lizardman form.

[late rock]

even the first game describes them as basically goblins or goblin relatives who live in snow

[sage grove]

Right, I'm not personally familiar, but last time I asked I was told they were goblins who either were transformed by the Snow Witches, or they inter-bred with them, I wasn't 100% clear on that

Aimed at what WaterProphet said

[late rock]

transformations being exclusive to one form is... very antithetical to Triumph's current design philosophy and approach towards the player fantasy of the game

OG Draconians were not even originally lizardmen at all

[sage grove]

Similarly, if draconians were created by dragons with the help of bipedal spell-casters, I'd argue that maybe that creation process could have involved transforming people

[late rock]

they were dragons turned humanoid

[sage grove]

Oh, haha, so the other way around, nevermind then

[late rock]

so in a way, draconians are a "reverse transformation" of dragons

[gloomy sparrow]

I agree... but it's still a possibility. I would expect, if one form got upgraded potential forms, they all would.

[late rock]

the draconian transformation in Dragon Dawn will basically be the inverse of that, taking humans, lizardmen or etc. and making them more dragon-like

the major transformations are basically that upgraded potential form

even though most of them we have seen so far don't give particularly huge bonuses on paper

and they are all applicable to any race that doesnt already have one

[gloomy sparrow]

that does seem to be the most likely

[late rock]

ngl draconic humans/elves/etc. sounds pretty cool and humanoid/elf/etc. combat hatchlings sounds hilariously blursed, I would rather Triumph make those a possibility than not

[gloomy sparrow]

hachlings might just be basic buildable unit from the same tomb that the dragon transformation is in.

[late rock]

possibly

would be hilarious if they were a racial tome unit

so half-dragon human hatchlings

that can evolve into human flamers/fliers/etc. when you have unlocked the right research from the same or other dragon tomes

[gloomy sparrow]

right

[naive rose]

you could justify hatchlings and slithers in the same tome if you give the hatchlings evolve

that way you get the more bestial draconians as a tome unit evolution

(Also I would go hogwild if I could give elves draconic horns and wings and the like)

[near plaza]

Well that’s obviously what’s happening

Theyll prolly end uo beeing like draconian flyers

Whicg is insofar boring ad theyll be kinds simmilar to the angek transform

[dawn valve]

Minions race from another triumph game called "Overlord".
Or at least make the Overlord as a creatable wizard king by adding its armors and weapons as an option.

[sage grove]

Well, the helmet's there, at least

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/age-of-wonders-4/about

Bottom of the page

[honest storm]

I don’t think draconian will be a transformation. Draconian orcs? Draconian dwarves?

[proud gale]

Dragon-blooded orcs!

[honest storm]

Ohh god lmao

[proud gale]

The power of the dragon! The might of the orc!
And under my banner, the will to claim their birthright!

it's going to be grand

Seriously though there's a ton of cool ways to frame it depending on what you think of your own game. The outline already says it's going to be a transformation.

Along with a new form, reptilian, where presumably reptilian draconians look like the old draconians

[strange frigate]

i want to play as a BEE, not my art found it on google

[sharp heron]

there is a lizard race in the first DLC but if I remember right, also a dragon transformation.

[wild bison]

https://tenor.com/view/buck-bumble-gif-26795158

"Buck to the Buck to the Buck to the Base, Buck to the Buck to the Bu-uh-uh-umble!"

On second thought yeah, give me a Bee Form, I want to lead a Bee Empire led by Buck Bumble.

[hoary wren]

I'm expecting it to come with the dragons dawn pack because we're supposed to be getting a transformation with taht DLC.

[maiden prism]

Man I Wanna use that to make dragon dwarves so bad.

Go full Fafnir with it

Maybe a subversion of the Smaug narrative, where the dwarves lost their home and it was a dragon that took them under its wing and aided them in their time of need.

So the dwarves revere the ancient beast and perform sacred rites using the runes it taught them, becoming like as unto the mighty wyrm.

[brisk loom]

i'd like to see Centaurs, Werewolves (or different werebeasts), maybe as a type of ascension and a sort of Arachnid race or ascension.

[sage grove]

https://tenor.com/view/oi-hi-you-hello-hey-gif-15149061

Oi, that's actually very cool

[dawn valve]

I think full overlord skin should be available.
Tome of souls lets you have an undead skin.
Tome of horde with goblinoid form as faction race should provide overlord skin with full helmet and body armour.
It would be nice...

[thorn trench]

It's been mentioned here before, but: I want to be able to use naga as a race form and/or leader form. I want a lot of arms, I want a snake body instead of legs, and I want to have absolutely no obligation to be sneaky and sinister.

I suspect I'm not gonna get what I want. Someone mentioned before that it'd be difficult to put snake bodies on mounts, and that's pretty essential if you're going to let them into the race customization scheme.

[sage grove]

Yeah, as much as I'd like that, I don't think I'd be fully satisfied with an implementation where they still fit the necessary mold for current forms

[torpid plover]

A monkey form might be kind of neat if you don't mind getting bombarded by The Monkey King memes

[trim gyro]

Or bombarded by poo

[near plaza]

I mean

It might judt come with the drawback of losing mounts

Forms can have drawbacks

[naive rose]

Maybe naga bodies could be a form trait akin to a mount option?

[gentle nymph]

how does that make sense

the point of forms that they visual only

[naive rose]

Well replace your cavalry with nagas essentially

So you could have something like a lizard or aquatic themed form and combine that with snake tail mounts. Call it "monstrous transformation" or something

[gentle nymph]

so you could have goblins with fishtail?

[naive rose]

So you could have scaly infantry led by a caste of naga cavalry

Possibly! I imagine something like mermaids could be done similarly. Or you could make it a tome transformation

[gentle nymph]

the problem is

90% of the game plays on land

i also dont think

theyd make any existing race into a form

even tho id love to see ogres or trolls

id imagine

they only add forms as entierly new stuff

or uplifted animals

[honest storm]

Ogres and trolls exist from ancient wonders. As they mentioned ancient wonders will allow you to make units that cannot be found anywhere else it’s very unlikely that you will ever make them as forms.

[gentle nymph]

that is what i precisely said

[gentle nymph]

here

and i was aware they part of a wonder

[honest storm]

Ohh sorry my bad. Missed that middle part lol

[gentle nymph]

no worries

[near plaza]

Id say naga tail is a transform that gives you aquatic and a powerful snare ability but it basically disables your cav

Your cav still is pretty fast cause snek

[untold canyon]

Snake could get first strike.

Or higher chance to crit on retaliation.

[thorn trench]

I must be missing something about your expectation, here, because it seems to clash with the fact the forms include humans, orcoids, elfkin, dwarfkin, goblinoids ...

to me, AoW4's coolest distinction from the franchise's precedent is that it no longer enforces a strict tie between physical form and cultural traditions. No more "pointy ears = good archers", no more "tusky teeth = barbarians", no more "bearded women = miners/smiths".

I mean, those tropes all still exist in the game, and are treated as defaults in certain ways, but you're not anchored to them.

I want to see that newfound flexibility in the "race" concept applied as broadly as possible, though I recognize that "as possible" is a pretty significant constraint here.

[gentle nymph]

which were always playable

i was talking about new forms

[thorn trench]

so your assertion boils down to this expectation: racial form options will include forms that have been playable before, and forms that have never been portrayed before at all, but not forms that have only ever been NPCs before. Am I understanding it now?

[gentle nymph]

exactly

because if they made existing monsters playable

than they wasted time modelling those monsters

and they have to redo them

there also alot of things with them that would be hard to execute

[thorn trench]

modeling in a 3d art sense? or in a more abstract way?

[gentle nymph]

like making them compatible with leader editor

remodelling cultural armor for their bodies

adding new animations

many of these monsters got bodies that dont fit well with everything else

[thorn trench]

oh, let's see if I'm following you: at this point in AoW4, since it's about to release, naga are already built into the game, and the work that was done on them doesn't account for leader- or culture-compatibility, so they're especially unlikely to try to add naga as a playable race because it'd require some *un-*work

[gentle nymph]

yes

and them not having any legs

also a huge issue

but even if there wasnt these issues i doubt they would remove a monster from monster status

if you get what im saying

cos than you look at that race differently

basicly

each time you make a monster playable

you end up with less monsters

cus now they a playable race

and adhere to those rules

regarding culture different looks and other stuff

also remember that transformations are huge part of the game this time around

making devil/angel nagas would be a big headache

i love demi giants and ogres specifically

but

i see the same issues

and im 100% sure they will never be playable for this reason

even if i really wanted to play them

ofc it wont deter people from request the same stuff regardless

[thorn trench]

for example: me, I'm still requesting nagas

[gentle nymph]

so i said all that stuff for pretty much nothing

you can

but dont expect them to actually add them in offically

[honest storm]

Imagine if they reached out to the fan base and made a fire penguin form lol

[carmine mantle]

someone is gonna cringe

but more woodland creatures

I need badgers and hares and weasels and mice

so I can make more Redwall factions

also Shrews

Shrews would be wonderful

[thorn trench]

let them cringe; we're on a discord talking about a video game with a fantasy setting

[carmine mantle]

also Hedgeyhogs

[gentle nymph]

rats were also in it

[carmine mantle]

yeah

[gentle nymph]

so u get a head start on them

[carmine mantle]

debating how best to do Cluny

obviously has to be Scion of Evil

no way not doing Dark

Sword and Shield champion unless there's a whip loadout

but Ruthless Raiders or Ritual Cannibals... hmmmm

and not sure about Form traits

beyond, "none of the tanky ones"

oh also, probably need more loadouts

REALLY wanna see a Scythe one at some point

Scythe's are cool

[thorn trench]

This suggestion might push the boundaries of the topic, but: how about form options that represent a mix of people with entirely different forms? Like, my people is a bunch of refugees from all over a ruined realm, so some of them are orcs, some are toads, some are humans, etc ...

I'm not sure how I'd want body traits to work, with such a form

also: the ability to set a range of values for a race's height, width, skin tone, and such

[unborn moat]

Do you guys know if there are race form that can be unlock in the pantheon ? I know there are apparently society traits, realm option and hero custom but not if there is race form.
Just in case If the dev have talked about it on discord/on live

[cyan citrus]

I need my amazons. make it an option for other races. just a societal trait or a race trait?

but i will settle for spider girls or bat girls

[sage grove]

Hmm, I dunno, but race forms I kinda doubt

[thorn trench]

Is this a request to allow us to limit forms to one of the two body types, at some point during race customization? If so, I second this

[cyan citrus]

^

thats idea. if not, then just a monosex race of spider ladies or bat ladies i will settle for

[barren cove]

it's a fun flavourful idea that I feel wouldn't be too hard to do with all their modular armour stuff? Obviously I don't know how it works exactly

[prime ermine]

We'll probably be able to recruit nagas from ancient wonders when the dragon DLC comes out

[barren cove]

Spider people and bat people would be so cool.

[thorn trench]

If it works some kind of way that makes this hard, then I humbly suggest they make it not work that way, so that they can do this

[barren cove]

LMAO well yeah ideally they have it set up so it's easy to modify but game dev is tricky

weird unexpected things can end up being problems

[thorn trench]

do we know whether unit types use gender roles? like, for a given combination of form and culture, are Shield Units always male?

[cyan citrus]

from what little ive had time to watch, it seems like its unit type specific

[barren cove]

yeahhh it seems gender locked in that sense :/

[cyan citrus]

i hope its not divided along cliche lines like "men are warriors/frontline" and "women are healers/support" units

[thorn trench]

I saw two genders of battle mage for mystic, but I suspect they're actually different units

it does at least split the archetype

[barren cove]

Men seem to be offensive casters/warlocks and such too but it does seem to follow that trend but I also haven't been following every bit of news/details too carefully so I'd love to be wrong!

Would love to see badass masculine healers and strong ladies on the front, net positive for unlocking it on each side imo 😤

[celest ingot]

in pf there were mixed gender units. i kinda wish aow4 was just like that

[naive rose]

I think barbarian has a pretty mixed roster from the leader screen

I vaguely recall a big buff orc lady from the arctica stream

But yeah, I'm definitely on the side of either mixed stacks or letting the player choose

[thorn trench]

Goo people. Translucent blobs who decided to try having two arms and two legs.
Default body trait: Amorphous, reduces the damage they take from crits.
Default mind trait: Mimicry, grants a buff when a unit acts on another unit of the same type (e.g. a shield unit attacks a shield unit, or a support unit buffs a support unit)

[naive rose]

https://tenor.com/view/flubber-dance-dancing-moves-gif-4892576

(Man I only have vague memories of that movie)

[neon pollen]

I'd personally like to see bovids, in particular the Caprini, goats and sheep and the like.
My friend Lenni once drew one such individual for one of my worldbuilding "projects".

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/860229224832827453/1063966921323712582/20230114_232435.jpg?width=490&height=675

In this case they are more inspired by goat-deer chamois.

[naive rose]

I like that idea. Culture assets might need a little tweaking to fit the legs, but I don't think it would be impossible to do - particularly if it's part of a meaty DLC

[gloomy sparrow]

the goat men concept is a pretty common relation to dryads. And there's going to be a dlc that kind of focuses on the nature aspect of things, at least that's what I assume "primal fury" will be about.

[neon pollen]

Yes, but these aren't the goatmen. I am asking for goatkin, not fauns or satyrs.

[hoary wren]

Could do just fur over the legs and have culture be torso only.

[thorn trench]

my new favorite sentence to read out of context

[runic shale]

well, how about going straight into beastmen ?

[honest storm]

I like this form system and that you can change appearance to a point with tomes. I feel like more diversity are needed for tome transformations tho. But I don’t think that every cool concept should be made into a form. For example in every game a race has a diversity of similar looking races as units. If you had a goat race they would use satyrs, goatmen and fauns. Maybe even centaurs. So I don’t think goatmen should be a form. Plus if they made forms of everything they would have less types to add as special kind of enemy unplayable ai mobs or ancient wonder units.

[sage grove]

Uhh, sorry, I feel like I'm missing something? I'm not quite sure what you're saying 🤔

[neon pollen]

The thing is, I am, again, not asking for goatmen! I am not here for satyrs and fauns. I said goatkin. GOATS

Not a man on goat legs.

[thorn trench]

gotcha. bottom part: goat. top part: also goat.

[neon pollen]

Incomprehensible cosmic horror!

[untold canyon]

Maybe they aught to make a form or two based on Eyptian mythology, like the classic tigrans used to be. Human body but with an animal head.

[sharp heron]

the theme sounds more like a culture (which I would love!). as for the human bodies with animal heads, maybe in the nature/animal DLC? cant remember what its called

[arctic tendon]

I'd love to see some type of Avian race, along with Lizardmen. They could prove to be interesting, and grant even more diversity. Hopefully in a DLC at some point.

[honest storm]

They would also add an interesting thing to combat. As they should all be able to fly. Unless ostrich, emu or kiwi birds lol

[proud gale]

I think it's a shame cassowaries aren't in these games. They definitely belong.

[sharp heron]

I need a Kiwi bird race now.....

[arctic tendon]

I absolutely agree

[late rock]

give me flightless bird forms

I want to make a fantasy ver. of my original birdmen, Industrious or Empires & Ashes DLC's Magitek culture, with Supergrowth transformation

[untold canyon]

When I was new to planetfall, I was hoping the rock men would play a bigger role for players armies.

I hope there are rock dudes in AoW4. All the golems look like they're metal constructs.

[thorn trench]

Summon Lesser Stone Spirit?
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/940799/Tome of Rock - Overview.png

or if we're talking playable rock folk, the same tome has a minor transformation to make your race rockier

[sage grove]

Yo, sweet!

[untold canyon]

There was speculation that the rocks on the moles shoulders are that transformation. Which is a little interesting but kind of far from what I'm looking for.

I hope the greater stone spirit is a stompy punch rock man.

[burnt quartz]

How much armor do you want? - Yes!

[wild bison]

So basically a mix of The Tau and the Taung.

[gloomy sparrow]

earth elementals were pretty fun in aow3

i recall auto combating entire armies, because my single earth elemental was immune to nearly all their damage

that player didn't kill it until they used a spell to banish it 😛

[barren cove]

Earth stuff will likely be reserved for Tome Transformation etc

[late rock]

Funnily enough, I have given them auxiliaries/allies in their lore, though I am curious to know where you are getting the Taung comparisons. Most people I have shown them to often compare them to the Chozo.

[wild bison]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Taung/Legends

I thought they were avian given their appearance, I guess I remembered wrong, but you got to admit the appearance kinda gives that vibe.

[late rock]

yeah that's fair

when I think "warrior avian" I usually remember Hissho from Endless Space or Firekkan from Wing Commander

[torpid plover]

Big Beastie lizards was I imagine is probably going to be with the dragon DLC. I not sure if there's a dedicated form for weapons but I think having twin axes will be a cool weapon option for our leader is well

[late rock]

more dual and polearm weapon options would be nice

i would love to have most of my leaders start with polearms

spears, billhooks, halberds and all that

[torpid plover]

What a billhooks?

[late rock]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mordhau_gamepedia_en/images/a/a7/Gear_Billhook.png/revision/latest?cb=20210523021128

feudal polearm units sometimes have them, minus the extra spikes

[torpid plover]

Oh that's what it is

I just figured it was like a broken shovel

[late rock]

historically they were good at pulling riders off of their horses

though the shape of the in-game design does not look as conducive to that

[surreal osprey]

Lizardfolk, snakefolk(nagas, lamias), minotaurs.

[prime ermine]

That orc has a Voulge or maybe a Fauchard not a Billhook you can tell from the lack of hooks.

[late rock]

oh yeah

[surreal osprey]

Was just thinking...but how would they implement unorthodox race forms, non-biological aka smth like warforged etc, it would need to either change their mechanics depending on form or we would have non-bio race using same food mechanics :<

[arctic tendon]

I actually love this idea, I've always been a fan of Nagas in games. I think they'd fit wonderfully with the game, and be really unique. Good ol' snake people

[thorn trench]

I love it when there's a faction that abandons certain resources entirely, like Endless Space 2 and the Riftborn, and I want this, and I also don't expect to get it because that'd be a significant departure from the current "forms don't actually truly matter" philosophy

(which I know we have opposing judgments of)

[surreal osprey]

Sneks are love, had insane love to them since homm3 time and why I love castle town there most haha

[thorn trench]

why all these AoW4 forms gotta have legs

make me a snake person, make me a floating crystalline orb, make me a gelatinous blob

[surreal osprey]

Yeah, i really dont expect from Triumph to make such changes so i dont really expect mecha race, but maybe mecha race transformation.

[surreal osprey]

How would nagas use mount tho? like horse etc...

thats what google showed me lol

[arctic tendon]

I...suppose their trails would just hang off the side-

Oh wow, there you go.

[thorn trench]

risky click but actually pretty salient

[surreal osprey]

well i was looking for nagas riding horses, not opposite 🙄

[thorn trench]

(I don't have images automatically displaying inline, so that was just an inscrutable .png for me)

[surreal osprey]

dw i will not post nsfw :^)

[thorn trench]

I mean I'm not even gonna complain if you do, but probably still best not to

[surreal osprey]

i mean, there are rules for a reason(but lets not flood)
human top, beast bottom races have this trouble of "how they use mounts" which i really dont think can be dealt easily :C

so prolly no snek girls for me

https://tenor.com/view/miia-monstermusume-monstergirl-snake-sneaky-gif-21375643

[thorn trench]

maybe still some snek girls through other channels, like a hero gets a "naga contacts" trait and now their city can draft naga

[surreal osprey]

yeah, i meant snake-people as playable form

neutrals like trolls is possible

[late rock]

I see centaurs and nagas as more ancient wonder/governor trait rally of liege units than cultural

[thorn trench]

I just want to invite more forms into the "we're all people! you can be whatever you want!" tent

like, High Naga who are Devotees of Good and, say, Great Builders? unprecedented in the setting, super appealing to me as a player

[thorn trench]

(and almost certainly unfeasible for the game developers)

[strange frigate]

Minotaur 🐮 🫳 🎤

[surreal osprey]

yeah but we can dream :^)
(I just hope CA add nagas one day or year in TWW3)

[arctic tendon]

Yeah, I’d say Nagas and some kind of Avian race would be fun and unique to see

[thorn trench]

Avians are easier to cram into the existing form standards, since they tend to have legs, and you can say that they're simply flightless

makes me wonder if clamoring for nagas is going to get us, like ... turtle people instead

[arctic tendon]

That sounds interesting

[thorn trench]

I would be delighted to have turtle people

[late rock]

turtles are underrated, gimme kappa

[wild bison]

Take my Centaur to The Old Mage Road.

[torpid plover]

This idea is so cute I actually want this to be a real thing

[surreal osprey]

side-one is so lady-like and cute i kinda imagine little pink snake princess riding like that

[torpid plover]

Indeed and I'm sure the rainbow princess will make best friends with her

[thorn trench]

I would visit the diplomacy screen with a snek person just to see them blep

then I would make a pronouncement that I consider them my friend because they blepped, and then they would blep again

advanced gamer optimization

[torpid plover]

I mean I imagine I'll be like the same reaction people have with this snake girl from XCOM first they'll be weird out and then weirdly they'll start being drawn to it

After all everyone loves a good monster girl :p

But overall I do imagine this wiggling left to right as they're going through diplomatic scenes

Almost like a belly dancer

[surreal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/miia-monster-musume-wiggle-tail-gif-5118181

[torpid plover]

[surreal osprey]

[thorn trench]

gotta get that depth perception for your motion-based non-binocular vision, after all

make sure your counterpart's still actually there

[torpid plover]

I just mean for like the dialogue screen

Like do you like to trade mister or Mrs

For event scenes and whatnot I imagine they're just going to stay still like we've been seeing in the previews

[thorn trench]

I gotta say, that is a really sturdy bed to be staying still when most of a lamia is flopping around on it

and has got to be actually bolted to the floor

[torpid plover]

Most of time that tail is curling around someone

I would say minotaurs or centaurs would be a nice playable faction but I think those are going to stay as recruitable units

[thorn trench]

depending on scale, minotaurs could at least fit into culture clothes and ride mounts, so here's hoping

[proud gale]

I don't think we've seen minotaurs? They don't seem to be a traditional Age of Wonders unit

[thorn trench]

perfect, no constraints in precedent

it's not like we've seen mole people before, right?

[surreal osprey]

they were a summon in AoW2 in earth sphere but iirc didn't appear since

[proud gale]

Age of Wonders 1 had mole riders for the dwarves

[surreal osprey]

I think they would be awesome new race form tbf, minotaurs are underrated

[proud gale]

Warcraft made minotaurs look really cool and I think it's time to appropriate that to the wider fantasy world

[torpid plover]

There's many ways of doing a Minotaur

The only requirement is that head has to be a bull or beasts that's about it

[proud gale]

The furry way and the egyptian way? are there others?

[surreal osprey]

I think HOMM minos was always awesome, some homm 3 mino heroes were my fav

[torpid plover]

Well some movies and games give them hoops and like thick High skin but nothing out of the ordinary

[surreal osprey]

and best mages

[barren cove]

Yeah taurens are really cool and honestly that kind of body type that is more hunched and powerful would be an awesome addition to the roster

cause atm we dont have huge bulky folk

aside from orcs

and frog people kinda

[torpid plover]

Heck you can even count the tauren from Warcraft as minotaurs a technical standing

[barren cove]

Well they pretty much are tbh

[thorn trench]

what Guilu was saying

[barren cove]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/R2yDW

[proud gale]

It's been a while since I've seen a minotaur that wasn't hooved tbh

[torpid plover]

But I think centaurs will be a fun race make sure you won't be able to have Mounds but I imagine your units will get increased speed on the world map and maybe one additional move tile in the combat map if I had to transfer that to gameplay

[barren cove]

Unfortunately I feel like centaurs are off limits due to how forms don't have inherent traits. I still feel like DLC ones could switch things up a bit and have exclusive things with trade-offs

[surreal osprey]

problem is forms are in current game design visual only

[torpid plover]

I'm aware of that it's just wishful thinking

[surreal osprey]

thats my main gripe with sytem tbf, it limits a lot what we can get

[barren cove]

Like a locked selection for a body trait of some sort

[thorn trench]

sharing in that wishful thinking

[barren cove]

But the mind trait is still open to be changed

[surreal osprey]

same can be for nagas
they might actually go for "special" forms in DLCs? wasn't stellaris DLC actually making specific traits tied to portraits like Lithoids or i misremember things?

[proud gale]

Even without that we didn't get centaurs or nagas or gargoyles or some of the wilder selections you can make in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup for instance.

So I don't think you should gripe about it.

[torpid plover]

My technically could go both but I think an Egyptian will probably be more fitting for this game setting

[surreal osprey]

arents tigrans are more of a egyptian race on aow?

[torpid plover]

Since to me it seems like the mystics have like this kind of Persian ecstatic to them

[proud gale]

Oh, that's not what I meant

[thorn trench]

if I were to try to make room in the current system for things like lamia and centaurs, I'd leave the body traits open to everything except mounts, I'd treat every unit as mechanically mounted, and I'd give them some kind of penalty for it, like every unit that wouldn't be mounted costs a bit more, or maybe their population needs more food to grow

[surreal osprey]

ah i've read it
you mean human body+bull head portrayal

aka like egyptian gods?

[proud gale]

I meant, since we're only talking about what the minotaur looks like physically, they either have the head of a bull and the body of a man (the egyptian way), or they have the head of a bull and a humanoid furred body with hooves (like warcraft).

[torpid plover]

Then my answer still stands it can go one of those two ways

[surreal osprey]

i think something in-between, like they still need furry legs with hooves but human-like body and hands without extra fur there

[torpid plover]

Of course they can deviate and meet in the middle

[surreal osprey]

in aow2 they were full-on fur tho

[torpid plover]

But at that point it kind of depends on how much resources they want to dedicate to making a new race that's unique or just kind of use a tampon they already pre-made and just modify it

For example I can easily see them use the cat folks and make like a jackal creature out of it just swap the heads and tail

[surreal osprey]

well i was very impressed with new races in PF so i wish for actual paid DLC they provide something unique

[proud gale]

They look very classical here. If we're talking about making Minotaurs into a full-on "race", a "form" in AoW4 terms, we need to go beyond the bull of Minos. That's why I'm referring back to Warcraft so much, they're the only ones who really pushed it.

[surreal osprey]

as i said above M&M setting had minos as a full-on race for a while, even tho nowadays series is day, they were portrayed from big muscular brutes to slender and powerful mages

[torpid plover]

Yeah I love the shakar very much in Planetfall design wise

Playing them was a little rough for me cuz I can't find a Synergy that works good for them

[surreal osprey]

my fav were prometheans and xenoplague

xeno is especially fun with how awesome their support units are

[thorn trench]

stellaris, yeah. They have photosynthesis for plants and fungi only; picking a rock-looking race automatically makes your people eat minerals instead of food and unlocks special pop traits, etc.

[proud gale]

Is there somewhere I can see that roster?

[thorn trench]

(you can make your bismuth people fart vespene gas)

[surreal osprey]

you need to look for portraits of heroes in homm 3-4 i think
overall mino of homm as units was always "dude with axe" but they had cool mage heroes in dungeon town
playable minotaurs in M&M 8 were like a "paladin" type characters

[torpid plover]

Is there any kind of like mechanical races in the previous game?

[proud gale]

No Modrons or anything like that no

There are technical minded races though

[torpid plover]

Okay so what were they?

Cuz in my mind I was thinking like a steampunk kind of Android for maybe like an automaton

[proud gale]

We do have punk androids

In Planetfall

[surreal osprey]

i think if they added mechanical race it would actually be a tome that has mechanical transformation for race

or smth like that

[thorn trench]

every Planetfall race eats food, which is maybe a little disappointing now that I think about it

[surreal osprey]

rat race becoming mechanical be like

[thorn trench]

instead of unhinged cyborg transhumanists, I want to play as aloof full-on artifice transhumanists

[proud gale]

It is a wargame, I think it's alright if the economy is rather similar between factions

[thorn trench]

like if synthesis all uploaded themselves into autonom chassis

[torpid plover]

I was thinking more like the Borg

But okay rogan Warrior rats why not

[thorn trench]

it's not a thing I'm going to complain about, I just really like it when you can play as something radically different like Endless Legend's animated armors who eat dust, or Endless Space's crystalline people who hate dust and don't use it at all

I'm sure it's a nightmare to balance, and I'm not expecting it, but I like it when it shows up

[surreal osprey]

i think lore-wise assembly are still kinda living things and need nutrients...i think

[thorn trench]

yeah, that's legit

[proud gale]

That's definitely an Endless X thing and I'm not fond of the lack of normal factions in those games :D

[surreal osprey]

I just really love asymmetrical gameplay

[torpid plover]

I mean if cybernetic mutant animal pirates was a thing in their last game I don't doubt there will be something similar in this game

[proud gale]

Starting up Endless Legend and learning that the "normal" faction is Industrialising Wood Elves is a bit of a rough introduction.

[torpid plover]

I'll even bet that the evil penguin will make a return

[surreal osprey]

space viking scientists are pretty "normal" too

[surreal osprey]

i think we even saw dire penguins already, if you are talking about them

[torpid plover]

That's probably the ones I'm thinking of but who knows I have been playing a lot of Starbound lately so it could be any number of penguins I'm thinking of

[proud gale]

I think the other wilder factions had the better lore. Like the Allayi? Definitely the french fantasy I wanted.

[surreal osprey]

im a simple person, necrophage main :^)
must consume
allayi are more asian white-fur bat-people
ardent mages are playing as normal too, just have this magic and obelisk gimmick, and very glass canon units

[proud gale]

Well my normal options were then: the sci-fi faction, the sadomachist faction, or the industrial tree lovers

i rest my case :)

[surreal osprey]

:^)

[neon pollen]

I'd call that a voulge.

Was already said. My apologies 🎩

[brazen thunder]

Canine / wolfkin race would be nice maybe incoming in one of the dlc, the one about wild nature. I could do a holy wolfkin based off powerwolf that'd be sick! Maybe anotger race insectoid kind or race with a yome of magic related to that you could summon and control swarm of bugs, maybe have a morphing form that looks like the swarm that walk from pathfinder wotr 😮 idk could be nice but, i think it might be harder to implement in the game, maybe ?

[sharp heron]

ok im a bit late but about the mechanical forms and any other form that radically changes gameplay, im all for this but just make them a culture instead and it works fine.

[thorn trench]

oh, interesting, meaning the culture would skin them with a mechanical look and change their mechanics?

sounds like a decent option

play as the Alchemicals, and trade in your food economy for an expanded mana economy

[sharp heron]

yeap and the system totally supports it

then you could have mechanical ratmen lol

or mechanical naga

[thorn trench]

unlike a lot of the things we've talked about here, canine forms seem like they'd be a pretty easy addition; I hope they add this for you (and, presumably, many others who'd want it)

[steep magnet]

Forms cannot change game play. That is a core rule. So whatever fancy ideas you have, they need to be put into cultures, traits or tomes, and this available to everyone.

Or, more accurately, whatever Triumph creates needs to follow this matrix.

As Modders you cab probably limit forms to certain traits, or forbid them from others etc.

[sharp heron]

yeah thats pretty much what I said

the big problem, is every culture you add, increases the number of skins each form will need, and each form you add increases the number of skins each culture will need.... its going to grow silly after a while lol. but I dont have to do the modeling so its fine lol

[thorn trench]

oh yes. Do I want to figure out how to reconcile naga forms with each culture's outfits? With mounts? No way. Do I still want naga forms? Of course!

I have reflected on my sloth and hypocrisy, and I have concluded that I can do nothing but accept it.

[sharp heron]

I cant remember if I have seen naga in AoW or not its been so long since ive played significantly

I would be all for it though

[thorn trench]

they were dwellings in AoW3

[sharp heron]

and the mechanical culture

[thorn trench]

so, not playable, but befriendable

[sharp heron]

cool cool. I hope we get some kind of steampunky culture with the empires DLC

[thorn trench]

whiny begging aside, what I expect nagas will be in AoW4 is special drafts that are unlocked by a hero trait or an Ancient Wonder

[sharp heron]

yeah likely. so same as AOW3 essentially

[brazen thunder]

Yeah seems like a no-brainer for me too ! Hopefully 😁aside from that id be happy about anything new really this game looks promising 😉

[sterile furnace]

Why couldn't they do nagas and centaurs through body/mind traits.

The Centaur trait could increase their movement speed and give them horse legs

The naga form could give them aquatic and snake legs (leg?)

Both traits would disable Mount units (kinda like an anti-special mount trait).

[thorn trench]

oh wow this did not occur to me. You have now awakened me to the awareness of the following concept: molekin centaurs.

followed closely by another concept: dwarf naga.

[sterile furnace]

I know right... It's awesome.

Rat Naga master race.

[thorn trench]

dwarf naga definitely have piercings all down their noodle half, so they can affix armor without it falling off

[sterile furnace]

I just remembered there is a slider for leg length as well, so you could give the centaurs stubby legs.

I've never wanted another feature in a game before.

I want a halfling centaur with short legs.

They'd be like Corgi's lol.

[wild bison]

These are fun ideas.

[thorn trench]

wait we're not doing form stereotypes anymore, I mean industrious naga

[wild bison]

Industrious Naga actually sounds pretty radical.

[thorn trench]

it's at least 30% of the way to Shakarn from Planetfall

some of their units had slithery lower bodies, though it's not clear that it's how those guys are actually shaped--could just be power armor wrapped around regular legs

[steep magnet]

Make it a transformation then?

[sterile furnace]

That could work as well

[final leaf]

I would love an insectoid form akin to the kirko off planetfall

[torpid plover]

I know we probably have a tone that could change their infections into like a demon like race but I still think it'll be a kind of cool to have a form that somewhat looks like a demon maybe something similar to Nightcrawler perhaps

[severe socket]

I suspect you know who is reserved for 2nd DLC 👀

[severe socket]

Whispers in the void

[torpid plover]

https://tenor.com/view/nightcrawler-kurt-wagner-tea-gif-14772876

They're just chilling

[final leaf]

isn't the eldritch expansion the last one

[severe socket]

It seems like that yeah.

[pallid wave]

Shadow Demons from age of wonders shadow magic were insectoid, i'm hoping we get thoes back

[agile timber]

Ant empire, SPREAD your hive across the planet, OMG hive, bees YES PLEASE

[barren cove]

Insectoids/Spiders/Moths/Bees would be great

[brave turtle]

I always appreciate games having cute bugpeople*
(*cute may be highly subjective)
In general I'm really looking forwards to all the DLC forms, it looks like we're likely to get a good variety

[clever flint]

I would like some Pig-Men. XD So you can re-create classic orcs, like how they are depicted in early DnD and early Heroes of Might and Magic.

[late rock]

Boar-men, ruled by Wizard King Bobby B.

[surreal osprey]

Or in most japanese cultured media :^)

[untold canyon]

I hope that if there's pig men they're really tiny and cute.

Little pink piglets.

[gentle nymph]

no

well

they could be taller than a dwarf

but shorter than a human

but they shouldnt be cute

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f4a2ff23-524c-477c-b3d6-01fff615131f/deestrx-db60d290-7ea3-40f2-b075-c7c812c37b3c.jpg/v1/fill/w_1280,h_1138,q_75,strp/pigman_1_by_jack9527yyy_deestrx-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTEzOCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y0YTJmZjIzLTUyNGMtNDc3Yy1iM2Q2LTAxZmZmNjE1MTMxZlwvZGVlc3RyeC1kYjYwZDI5MC03ZWEzLTQwZjItYjA3NS1jN2M4MTJjMzdiM2MuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.I_8jabUIljUrTIXRNKgHbP9jIpWd3Xf4HzHhHcFRmKE

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/037/302/783/large/grzegorz-kierojczyk-rend2.jpg?1620048092

if they looked like this second one

thatd be awsome

[sage grove]

Bruh... That's, like, boarkin

[proud gale]

Porks are cool

[surreal osprey]

i dont think pig-people are...that appealing, but i can understand fans of them i guess

[latent halo]

I dearly hope there will be a way (pantheon unlock?) to get frostlings right away. Appearantly there is a frostling transmutation. But i want full start frostlings not just some race becoming them after 40+turns

[strange frigate]

didn't orcs use to be more pig-like back when they first came to media? anyways i am pro for pigman race

[gentle nymph]

yes

they were pretty much in every media

expect tolkien

tho im not sure for the reason

tho i seen some artist take on tolkien orcs

that also use pig astetics

[strange frigate]

i think every type of orc has its place i like all of them

well apart from the nsfw ones

[gentle nymph]

https://www.theonering.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/captured_by_orcs-hildebrandt.jpg

[untold canyon]

I'm not a huge fan of them, but I do think there's an appeal to silly piglets.

[surreal osprey]

yeah thats basically what i meant to say ^^''

[untold canyon]

I mean, outside of the homage to old orcs, and maybe legend of Zelda. I don't know what I'd do with big boar dudes..

Still even that could be fun, having orcs fighting other kinds of orcs.

[surreal osprey]

as i said above...i have one major association with pig-dudes and its mostly nsfw coming from japan so thats why im...not a big fan :^)

https://tenor.com/view/ayunda-risu-risu-concerned-ayunda-concerns-gif-21935857

[gentle nymph]

dont you have the same problem with cat girls?

[strange frigate]

i think its because most people see cat girls as cute "Kawaī", and pigman is either evil of just gross, i think the slime anime is one of the only ones that made them just people who are not gross and evil

I (Goomba) am ok with both

[steep magnet]

By the sounds of it, transforming into Frostlings, or any other major (iirc frostlings is a major) transformation is a noticeable power jump.

Might be considered unbalanced.

And if it were unlocked through the pantheon, then the other transformations would need to be too!

[gentle nymph]

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/05ab7ed8-26e3-45cf-907b-eee1d6ddb68c/d2a89lb-00f64657-6c55-446c-91e5-55b87a8e8bf1.jpg/v1/fill/w_900,h_771,q_75,strp/fable_hobbe_by_oregonsamurai_d2a89lb-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzcxIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMDVhYjdlZDgtMjZlMy00NWNmLTkwN2ItZWVlMWQ2ZGRiNjhjXC9kMmE4OWxiLTAwZjY0NjU3LTZjNTUtNDQ2Yy05MWU1LTU1Yjg3YThlOGJmMS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9OTAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.BsiO7CyNw3EaAuum-1TOMkkNd2uP6mHMyfACDaaoVec

loved fable hobbes

ofc

ripping them off aint would be it

but would love to see something similar

some evil small creature that isnt a goblin

[latent halo]

I fear so

[surreal osprey]

we already have halflings

also rats

https://tenor.com/view/queek-headtaker-skaven-queek-gif-15706905

[sharp heron]

well in AOW lore the frostlings were a transformed race already. its just in older versions it happened before game, now it happens during game. likely because of the power jump.

[thorn trench]

flavorwise, it'd be nice to be able to start with transformations, but I understand why that might be difficult to balance (and difficult to reconcile with the game's evolution gameplay, which is supposed to be a selling point)

in PF Galactic Empire mode, you'd build up tech aptitudes that give you bonus technologies at the start; I wonder if AoW4 could accommodate a game mode where all players can choose some transformations up front?

[sharp heron]

might be nice

[thorn trench]

personally I'd really like it if there were a game mode that preserved transformations and tome research, and balanced that out by making research really slow

like what if one entire strategic scenario were only enough time to research one tome

but that kind of flow would be strictly single-player, like Galactic Empire

[late rock]

I still hold the belief that Frostlings as a form would lose a lot more flavor than Frostlings as a transformation, given how you can freely customize form traits

plus Frostling form being redundant when you can make blue-skinned Goblins with Arctic Adaptation, which are basically a lite version of OG Frostlings until you give them the transformation

[surreal osprey]

Mechanically frostling transformation is awesome idea, but a little inside im still a little salty we lost mammoth riding frostlings we had. With short males and tall females and other stuff. And they never really were goblins but had pretty humanlike face features.

But again i love that its transformation now, i love theme of Ice Elves(spellforce breath of winter 🙏 ) etc so it opened a lot of potential for awesome races.

[late rock]

Frostlings were explicitly described as being Goblin-like in the games before 3, and even in 3, the Ice Scaper, Raider and Harpoon Thrower were fairly Goblinoid and meant to represent those that have not hybridized with the White Witches

I will definitely miss Mammoths too though

they better show up in Tomes or Ancient Wonders

[surreal osprey]

Talking about sexual dimorphism, it would be interesting to have option opened later to customise male and female models for our race separately and (as others suggested before) to choose which gender would be particular unit or have it randomised.

So like we could have giant female rats ruling smol hordes of ratlings, or again try to rp old frostlings with their tallness difference.

[late rock]

that would be nice

maybe they could implement it post-launch

[surreal osprey]

I checked and its told that they are "They are thought to be distant relatives of the Goblins" yeah, but i dunno, current goblin design just doesn't look like them :C especially after AoW3 re-design.

[proud gale]

If you start the game with Tome of Cryomancy, Barbarian Culture, Arctic Adaptation and any blue-skinned humanoids you have Frostlings from turn 1. Legitimately.

If that's too difficult you can pick Artica from the default characters

It's going to take you 8 turns to get benefits on frozen targets but that's not unlike a regular strategy game's tech tree

[late rock]

more or less

[untold canyon]

Onis, to expand on the ogre family. With lightning damage.

Maybe even a battle mage that plays a drum to call lightning.

[late rock]

Oni with an alcohol fire breath

chugs a barrel of sake then spits it out through a torch

[torpid plover]

So you want a Zelda race in this game

Wow was it really that far up

I guess Discord didn't choose to update my fee today lol

[gentle nymph]

halflings arent evil looking

[gentle nymph]

rats are rats

[sage grove]

Eh?

[amber lotus]

merfolk

[steep magnet]

I think the realm traits, which look quite juicy, will allow some.modding to enable this.

I base this on the existence If modified AI, like there is one realm trait I think where the AI player(s) start(s) on the map, already levelled.

So my thinking is that if the map/realm csn be adjusted that way, it can be adjusted for the player as well.

Could even be a bit of a hack by giving you the transform spell for free and a lot of starting mana. 🤔

[maiden prism]

Here's my question: You think the modkit will allow us to make custom races?

[untold canyon]

I would be surprised if you couldn't.

[proud gale]

Yes, but you'll need to make models and animations and those will require tools not included with the game.

It's also going to be a ton of work. Just the culture units is going to be 32-36 sets to check? and then you have to add the racial tome unit, which is probably going to be another 20. And you have to check the various transformations fit on them, which even if the toolset allows might be a very annoying workflow.

Hopefully you can recycle a lot of what's been done by the devs on the existing forms but there's no guarantee. There's a reason we'll be paying good money for these in DLC.

[proud eagle]

I believe the form system was made to make it so forms shared a lot of assets

It is still a large amount of work, but I doubt it is the hardest thing in the world

if you can 3d model lol

[rich hill]

you probably wont need to make animations for humanoids unless you need something super specific

[marble valley]

Id like a few more animalesque races canine or a bird of some description (would love the crests of a cockatoo/galah as a feature for them).
Maybe mice (i know we got rats but like half the size and cuter i guess?).

[modern root]

Maybe if the community works together we can create a lot of extra forms and races to play with 🙂

[near plaza]

i asked that before

its doable but the modularity will make it difficult

as in your models you implement will likeley need to be set up in such a way to accomodate all the mutations

[cyan citrus]

damn. and aow is already quite difficult to mod, compared to some other games. i cant imagine it being MORE difficult

[barren cove]

I really hope adding more forms through mods will be possible and there will be documentation on how models work for them

[gentle nymph]

modding is something im very curious about

modders could do so much with this game

the question is tho how hard it gonna be

if it had same level of modding as ck3

the games longivity gonna be crazy

[barren cove]

Yesss we can only hope 🙏

[fickle estuary]

My thing is if AOW4 is going to be more DLC based they probably won't. From a business point of view it is bad to make it easier to mod unless they want long lasting community support, but less profits.

I don't know Paradox Entertainment's management style so if someone could enlighten me as they are the one's that acquired AOW's Intellectual Property.

[proud gale]

Pdox games are typically decently easy to mod, even if their event script is less than agreeable to work with. This is despite a deluge of DLC.

Typically what it comes down to is that it's difficult to find people competent in the graphical side that are willing to do that work for free; so the competition is not as great as it seems. DLCs also provide additional systems with dedicated interfaces, which is not something that's typically moddable in any game.

So for instance, as far as we know we'll be able to add units to Age of Wonders 4. If I were dissatisfied with the amount of cavalry units, I could add some, maybe have a custom model for them with specialized tools like Maya, perhaps recycle some textures.

But if I wanted to add a new resource to the game called Prestige, that could be used to raise a horde to invade my opponents or in diplomatic plays to curry favour, I might find that this is out of a modder's reach in any number of ways.

[sharp heron]

that would be a pretty cool form for sure

[untold canyon]

Someone has to warn us about the damn penguins.

Even if people think they're crazy.

[fickle estuary]

good to know thanks

I always found 3d model the hardest to create and MOD as they are time consuming to make a good model as well. Let alone letting all the forms being tweaked with Tome enhancements.

So always thought it was the best way to keep games out of being modded out of company profits.
Makes sense that interface and introducing new core mechanics would be hard to mod without breaking the game.

[gentle nymph]

i dont like many things about wc but these guys arent one of them

btw there a ck3 wc mod

that lets you play as them too

[barren cove]

More than half of Civ 6's content is DLC and it's incredibly successful despite having very powerful mod support and extremely talented modders making things that are comparable in quality to what Firaxis does. The same really goes for a lot of Paradox games like CK3 and HoI4. I feel like it's generally a net benefit and people generally don't make mods that try to replicate the DLCs content

[rich hill]

oh it will defintely be possible to add forms via modding

pretty sure they outright said that a few times

[gentle nymph]

the thing with mods tho that it makes people buy the game that otherwise might not

and modders do their job for free

it just gives alot more incentive

to purchache

and i think people buy the dlcs regardless once they got the base game

modders can focus on aspect they wouldnt really care about covering

[barren cove]

Yeah

[neon pebble]

the dragon dlc hypes me crazy! but it's true that it's a bit classic and there are already dragons in the game so curious to know what will be added, otherwise I would be pleasantly surprised if one day we had the right to a dlc or a mod that we comes out the elegant and powerful noble phoenix race as well as a corresponding culture and tomes, the phoenix theme is just as interesting and much rarer in games and that's a shame

[fickle estuary]

I just meant in the sense of what benefit it does to a company where the company is making the game "better" at the lost of profits or giving their employees something to do and make more money thus launch another AOW5 game. Don't get me wrong I love mods and the craziness the community can do when passionate. Though I worry for longevity of the employees.

Similar to this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/333sm6/why_dont_companies_want_people_to_mod_their_games/
Why don't companies want people to mod their games?
Mods are fantastic. They can extend the lifetime of a game by years! They can improve the game so much and get even more sales from it. Why would someone choose to try and "lock up" their game?

I'm using GTA:V (for PC) as an example now. It's ganna get modded anyway, why not make it easier and (not that they need it, but still) get more sales from it?

Edit: I get it, thanks! It's not needed in all games, It would make me play the game longer. Not in an annual franchise or anything, that's not what I meant at all, hell I'm still playing Skyrim (but only modded). People are still playing Fallout and Morrowind due to mods. So:

Takes time

Not for annual franchises (because money)

reduce cheating in multiplayer (if the game has multiplayer)

DLC (because money)

So really, i get the time factor. My opinion: But other than that I'd say games like GTA singleplayer could really REALLY benefit from mods. Or games like Just Cause 2 (which has mods, but the game is extremely empty for such a small map. You can argue, but the world is so empty except for the roads really. The rest is jungle/nothing really happening) Or really openworld games. Then the community can add anything they want to make the game more lively.

[gentle nymph]

i doubt many people gonna play aow4 competitevly

4x games usually played with people you know

or trust them to some extent

also

in 4x games

its not profitable to cheat

cos u cant finish any game then

cos the other just gonna quit

[barren cove]

Yeah it's a completely different landscape

[sharp heron]

@neon pebble well we know there will be a lizard form, a dragon ruler type, more tomes, and a transformation to make your people more dragon like

[neon pebble]

yes I saw it ^^ it's the first DLC which is supposed to come out a few months after the game's release, I only regret that there isn't something about the phoenixes! there is so much to do on it too, we often have content on dragons but phoenixes are often neglected even though technically they are the equals of dragons

https://tenor.com/view/phoenix-gif-24286383

[sharp heron]

yeah a phoenix is cool. dont remember what ive seen in the AoW series about it

I dont know if I would call them an equal to dragons but definitely cool

[neon pebble]

so on the video of the toad at the end we can see in the golden door when can unlock a phoenix unit so we must be able to recruit some

in Chinese culture the phoenix the dragon the white tiger and the black turtle are the 4 sacred beasts and dragons and phoenixes are often represented as emperors and empresses

[sharp heron]

yeah it varies by culture for sure.

im use to dnd comparisons, dragons just end up being so much larger.

[neon pebble]

and then..... the phoenixes are immortal so it's necessarily stylish and there are mechanics to do with it ^^ moreover I saw an image of Aoe4 with an Ankh of phoenix which allows you to come back to life so there are already some tricks in the game ^^ I would have just been happy to have more

[sharp heron]

maybe if they release an avian form you could take fire tomes and make your own phoenix race

[neon pebble]

🤔 yeah maybe

at least one form and transformations of races can be ^^

if we had 2-3 trucks that allows us to do this, either as a bonus dlc or by mods, it would be great

it was just an idea of ​​the times the devs would see it xD

[sage grove]

I absolutely adore phoenixes done right too, which is pretty much just a majestic bird of fire

The majesty is critical, otherwise it's just a bird-shaped fire elemental

[neon pebble]

we agree ! but suddenly it reassures me I'm not the only one who loved these magnificent creatures

[dense venture]

You mentioned Phoenix?

[neon pebble]

ok. i love you Jordi ❤️

so beautiful

[proud gale]

I like the antennas!

[marble valley]

Not sure about a phoenix race maybe an avian race with phoenix themed tomes (which is basically the same i know) so that way i can make my phoenix rats or frogs O.O. I also love Anivia from league of legends and she's a cryophoenix so yea I'm all for more phoenix's in general also that phoenix is pretty sweet XD Maybe if they do a second pass after the first we may get a phoenix dlc like the dragon one?

[torpid plover]

What a pretty bird can't wait to see it set my enemies on fire

[thorn trench]

if that means you're not planning to let it set your friends on fire too, your restraint is admirable

[torpid plover]

I know the last time I had a friend Touch Phoenix it turned to Ash

[near plaza]

Looks cool, cant help but notice, does that mean flyers stay Airborne like in PF? Cause that looks like an idle Anim at firsf

[late rock]

Fliers auto-land and can be attacked by ground units like in AoW3, we saw this with the bone dragon/wyvern fight in the Dwarf stream

the Bone Dragon lands after moving, the Bone Wyvern flaps and hovers very close to the ground after moving and can be attacked by the Iron Golems, who are not even using pikes.

Even the Spirit Hawks which hover instead of land in their idle animation can be attacked by ground units that are not necessarily pikes, we see this in one of the early fights in the Drowned stream

[near plaza]

Aight

While thazs a major nerf

It makee sense

Since ranged units are less universal in aow compared to pf

Still a tww like system would be cool

[late rock]

the way fliers worked in 3 and this game is basically similar to how fliers worked in Kings of War and Warhammer Fantasy tabletop

[dense venture]

Yea there's no Flying layer. Flying units can be hit by Melee, in most cases they just hover in their idle instead of land.

[gentle nymph]

interesting

i remember in masters of magic

it was really frustrating to fight flying units

cos u couldnt hit them in melee

[late rock]

Flying units were like that in AoW1 and 2/SM too

[gentle nymph]

tho sometimes they would suicide into your army

[late rock]

ground melee units can only retaliate against them

[near plaza]

I guess otherwise ranged heroes on flying mounts would be the ultimate doomstack

[untold canyon]

My first encounter with doom bats in Shadow Magic was watching one single doom bats slowly pick apart my melee army. You could retaliate against melee attacks from flying units but these things had life steal.

[steep magnet]

I am guessing that was SM then? Doombats in AoW1 were lacklustre :S

[strange frigate]

dam|| that's a big beaver||

but yeah i want something like this 👆

[white flame]

I really hope for either a centaur, drider, faerie, troll, merfolk, as a possible form to pick from, and if we can't pick them, maybe they can be as a race transformation in the later game? =}

[marble valley]

i like the idea of a race that has a land and sea form for merfolk molemaids for the win

[thorn trench]

the part of the word "mermaid" that has to do with swimming is "mer", so I suggest "mermole"

although moles in maid outfits, skillfully and diligently cleaning a living space, is also good

[marble valley]

lol my mistake but now i cant not think about the moles in maid outfits XD

[autumn umbra]

Dident know that.

[strange frigate]

would love something like this, and would be fine if they had legs i just wish they will look more snake-like then lizard-like

like something like this

(NOT MY ART FOUND IT A GOOGLE)

[white flame]

I wouldn't be surprise to see something like this in the Dragon expansion pack

[torpid plover]

Sneaky snakes

I think Crow people might be cool race to have maybe as Primal Fury DLC content.

And here's some ideas I have for maybe traits they can have by default.

Mind: "fresh meal" the Raven folk enjoy their meat and never miss an opportunity to Feast on it living or dead. (being x amount of Health after the battle is over)

Body: "dark advisor" The Raven Folk have served many Dark Masters over the years and know exactly what to say to ensure their positions are never compromise. (gain +10 diplomatic relations with those with evil alignment)

[neon pollen]

Goatkin, goatkin, goatkin!

[loud heron]

There's a lot of ancestries I'd like to see in the game, tbqh. But I think the top 3 I have are

1. Insect People (so that people can make Kir'ko Shadow Demons)
2. Some form of Bird People (Kenku/Aarakocra/Tengu/etc.)
3. Some form of Plant People (Leshies/Dryads/etc.)

[cyan citrus]

i second, third, and fourth the leshies/dryads/plant people

[proud gale]

There are a lot of plant people in the game as summons. 😅 But you're right that they aren't a form.

[naive rose]

Leshies are a really cute concept. Tiny friendly plant spirits

I would love something like that in some form

They make me think of redwall, where all the characters are small animals. But this time it's small plants

Perfect for running with a life/ nature themed wizard

[late rock]

I still hope to eventually see my flightless birdmen that I can give Supergrowth and Industrious or Empires n Ashes Dreadnought stuff to.

though I will be content to proxy them with Dragon Dawn's Reptilian form if we never get some feathery lads in Primal or Eldritch DLCs

birds are dinosaurs, after all

[steep magnet]

Why do I have it in my head that you can transform into something like a plant?

[late rock]

well, we have seen the late-tier transformation that makes your people grow plant bits all over them

[wild bison]

Throw in Mushroom People.

[sharp heron]

@loud heron I bet the shadow demons will get their own form. but an insectoid form would also be awesome.

[latent halo]

I disagree as that would essentially mean we get two different insectoid forms which deem unlikely

[maiden prism]

God I cannot wait to make plant-orcs

[mental prism]

Fairies

[sharp heron]

@latent halo ya know, I never thought of the shadow demons as insectoid.. just demonic. but looking back... I suppose you are correct

[maiden prism]

Bracken, Briar, Burr and Thorn
Leaves, our standard, foes be warned
Our roots go deep to blackened soil
Made rich by foes who stole our toil
In iron bark, we clad our forms.
We stand, unbowing, oaken-borne

[wild bison]

'Gets Bee Form'
'Makes Empire led by Buck Bumble.'

[cyan citrus]

Cute fairies yessss

[late rock]

I would love to see fey transformation

giving little fairy wings and all

okay, maybe not so little (artist: mizuumi007)

[mental prism]

I love fairies. I miss the fairy style from aow 1 (more traditional) though i like the new ones too(not the new nymphs... sorry artist those are nightmare fuel). I used to collect fairy statues when i was younger

[untold canyon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1060710597349605497/1089979449824518236/image.png

[untold canyon]

It looked like wisps don't have bodies any more in AoW4. Hopefully they will make it up to us in the primal fury expansion.

[neon pollen]

🤔

But true leshies aren't tiny plant spirits.

The leshies, being of Slavic mythology, are lords of forests, ancient spirits not born of human emotion or malice. Every forest has its leshy, who protects the forest and either blesses or curses the endeavours of those who enter them, depending on their respect and etiquette for forest and leshy. For instance it was considered rude to whistle in a forest. Leshies can take any form within their forest and imitate any sound too, so you might as well be looking at a leshy, when you see a rustling trail of leaves, or a falling acorn, or even an old lady.

Also they like to play games with each other. There is a folk tale in eastern lands of Slavs, in Russia, that leshies were playing some gambling game, like poker, and one bet all the squirrels of his forest and thus when he lost a giant migration of squirrels happened (the story is based on a real event, when large numbers of squirrels were seen migrating to south).

[naive rose]

I also like this. But my main issue is translating it into a form, when the concept itself can vary so much wrt visuals.

[neon pollen]

Plant and squirrel forms! My plant form Wizard-King leshy leading a civilisation of thrifty squirrels!

[naive rose]

😄

[surreal osprey]

Plant is transformation tho

[neon pollen]

I know.

[surreal osprey]

But about lord of forests concept, I think aow already has Horned God, no? I know it's different but anything similar to leshiy would still step on it's toes

[neon pollen]

It wasn't a serious proposition.

[steep magnet]

Given that plant is a transformation, in theory a talented/dedicated modder could turn it into a base form?

[loud heron]

I think there's a pretty clear distinction between playing as plant-orcs and utilizing cacti/trees/flowers as a base form, and there's probably opportunities for both to be included.

It would be rad to have an army of demonic cacti knocking at the gates, IMO

[harsh sail]

How would a plant transformation of plantkin look like?

[surreal osprey]

if we would ever get insectoid race...i kinda can't stop thinking about Sajikis from Alient Nations game

but now im kinda even more bothered with race form and culture being separate choice
it would mean we would never get actual fitting insectoid looking city

unless DLC forms etc would be very different from basic ones

[white flame]

I don't know if this has been discuss before, but I would like to see a Squirrel Form 😄

[surreal osprey]

the only thing i can provide you as copium is advice to watch risu

the only(slightly unhinged) squirrel you would ever need

[untold canyon]

From the looks of the orc with twigs and leaves growing on him. I guess they would just look more wild and unkempt.

[marble valley]

You never know there doing a dragon king ruler type for the first dlc maybe a bug king where your cities are more "insectoid" looking with the ruler type. Also insectoid seems pretty popular so maybe a mod will be made at some point 🙂

[surreal osprey]

thats what i meant by last sentence
cuz unless DLC additions would be less conventional compare to basics we are just going to be sold bunch of skins as races
tbf i really hoped city skin would be just separate option and culture visuals would just be applied to it, but its much harder to implement :C

[near plaza]

Good tasts

[loud heron]

Probably the same as animal kinship on a molekin/ratperson, where it just kinda makes their animal features more defined (or on a plant person, their plant-like features more defined)

[ionic bane]

Scaly

[steep magnet]

Well none of the forms have any animal traits to start with, so if there were a plant form presumably it would be similarly cosmetic only

[torpid plover]

Smurfs

[sacred flint]

Rabbits.

[torpid plover]

Red caps

[untold canyon]

I'd be pretty happy if there were cosmetic equipment for units too.

[late rock]

yes, like helmets for everyone

I was sad that only the Anvil Guard for the Industrious Moles get helmets

I know that the art team might not have been able to make a variation of the Arbalest and Bastion helmets for the Moles, but I would not mind taking the same hat that Mole Anvil Guard wear and putting it on them

[torpid plover]

I guess it depends on how they design it so the mods can fit it around the species heads

[untold canyon]

Football helmets for mole berserkers.

[torpid plover]

Why stop there why not just go super spiky. Like the people that do MH

[quick egret]

How about mixed form empires? Like have half your people goblins and half orcs, could be certain units get one model and others get the other model, or even every recruited unit has a chance to be one form or the other?

[wild bison]

Yeah, it'd be neat to see Units made up of multiple races.

[proper igloo]

Have to at least have the race available in aow3

[light skiff]

A wolfkind race this is the only thing i really crave for, i would die happy 🙂

[torpid plover]

I feel like this came from that one game with the furry creatures

[naive rose]

I think it's a worgen death knight from world of warcraft

I could be wrong, but the blue glowing eyes and that style of armour fits

Very cool even if I'm wrong

[clever flint]

I would love to have an hyena-form. So I could re-create gnolls. XD

[torpid plover]

the fox folks are always ready to fight

I don't care if it's a unit or form I just kind of want to see fox people in suits of armor

[untold canyon]

A form where all you can see is their eyes. They're always wearing hoods or huge hats that seem to cast a pitch black shadow over their faces. They might not even have faces, you never find out. Basically black mages or those hooded people from oracle of ages/seasons.

Maybe some of them could wear plain masks.

[wild bison]

Alligators would be good.
Gonna make the Kremlins and blast Gangplank Galleon on full volume.

[sterile furnace]

Some sort of "bearfolk" would be awesome.

[wild bison]

And yes, Ape Folk need to be added if Alligators are.

[tough ice]

Wasp/Bee form.

[tranquil surge]

Wasp

Wasp-form would have "Pinnacle of Evil" trait

[wild bison]

https://tenor.com/view/buck-bumble-gif-26795158

[untold abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-skek-so-skeksis-dance-dark-crystal-gif-15065892

These and Fae for me. Also lizardmen instead of Draconians, ||but Draconians come with a fricken Dragon leader so that's already awesome.||

[latent halo]

Well i guess we have a lizard form in the end that well be suitable for both lizard and draconian races

[wild bison]

Lizards: We remember what you did to us Nimue.

[thick flicker]

Behold! The Best Race! But seriously, Dog people would be the next best choice seeing how we already got Tigrans (cat people), so why can't we get dogs? Maybe even some Doge in there too?

[wild bison]

So Kobolds from Suikoden.

[untold abyss]

Werewolf dogs

Actually, gnolls would be amazing

[cyan citrus]

i dont think they are listening to this. lol

[untold canyon]

But it's fun.

[strange frigate]

is

and who knows

[calm harness]

A giant or somekind of large humanoid would be good.

[strange frigate]

I heard that giant may be a transformation, not 100% sure

[proud eagle]

There was Giantkin

Which I think does what they want

[calm harness]

Rabbit people would also be cool

Overall though I personally feel that the designs for the animal forms are too cartoony and furry-like.

Bit of a shame

[untold abyss]

Boar men, pig men

Can't go wrong

https://tenor.com/view/gamorrean-guard-gamorrean-guard-star-wars-rotj-gif-25311731

[strange frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/regeneration-slime-orc-gif-19458703

[gentle nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/wee-piggy-pinwheel-gif-13583188

[maiden dew]

https://tenor.com/view/rushing-like-a-boar-gif-19627099

[mental prism]

Mountain. The ultimate race

[agile timber]

when do I get a CoW race

🐮

[steep magnet]

Minotaur...?

[agile timber]

nope

cows

[strange frigate]

no they should just add Minotaurs and, maybe some one can just mod cows into them

[untold abyss]

Demon minotaurs would be cool as hell

Or angel minotaurs for that matter

[sage grove]

Imagine a whole country of these guys
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Taurox

[surreal osprey]

Ye
Or more druidic/natural take ala Taurens

[gentle nymph]

hes neither tho he brass bull

which there are metal skin transformation

[sage grove]

What?

[lofty steeple]

pig people so we can do japanese orcs and darkest dungeon swines

[untold abyss]

Classic orcs were pig-like too.

[rich hill]

avoxel made a boar- pun so maybe boar people are coming

[hollow compass]

Isn't female minotaurs in technically it's a cow ? 🤔

[gentle nymph]

not in barnyard

[marble valley]

i like the idea of pig people just so i can go pigs riding spiders and sing spider pig

omg id name the pigmen Wilbur just for a Charlotte's web refernce too O.O

damnit now i do want pigmen instead of just making a lame joke >.<

[gentle nymph]

why not have pigs riding pigs

[wild bison]

https://tenor.com/view/limule-gif-26227251

[hasty gulch]

Probably already been said, but Centauroids would be interesting.

[full zephyr]

Crow people, fox people

[harsh sail]

What about centaur cavalry? Consider different mounts.

But if centaurs are problematic, satyrs might be better. Satyrs are canon in AoW.

[untold canyon]

Halflings had centaurs in Shadow Magic.

[lavish eagle]

I need flightless avians. Got to be able to recreate the Skeksis.

[thin basin]

Minotaurs!

[hoary wren]

High Minotaurs would be a cool look.

[brisk loom]

that’s it, the perfect evil.

[strange frigate]

i think dark as well

[surreal osprey]

mystic
always loved magical minotaurs

[strange frigate]

ya ya

[thin basin]

Fairy minotaurs FTW

[untold canyon]

Bears and ogres, I think would continue the trend of beast race fantasy race mirroring.

[steep magnet]

Warlords Battlecry had the best Minotaurs

[strange frigate]

something like this?

[surreal osprey]

yes

[untold abyss]

Not races, but a late renaissance faction would be top tier. Kind of like AoW3 humans

https://tenor.com/view/hat-cyrano-bergerac-french-depardieu-gif-21491177

[late rock]

second DLC might have 'em

[marble valley]

i think feudal is sorta like that already

[late rock]

feudal is closer to early medieval

no plate armor, and the lances are just cavalry spears

[calm harness]

Yeah it ironically makes a better fit for barbarians than the barbarian culture because of that.

[surreal osprey]

Feudal look fit viking more than barbarian and that's kinda ironic

[mental prism]

Yeah. Barbarian is fantasy barbarian (good) feudal is pretty early medieval. I'm glad thats represented but also would love a late representation eventually

[marble valley]

Well if were also talking about other cultures maybe a samurai based one might be nice? =3 (altough im pretty sure this has been bought up before multiple times before) Or Shogunate so we can have like samurai and ninjas idk XD

[untold canyon]

I can see ninja village working as double nature culture.

[tender agate]

I'd love to see a plantigrade Canine race, so I can have an empire of foxes. 🦊

Avians would be cool too, but then there would have to be a way to gain Flying for all of them, derp.

[sage grove]

I would like a vaguely eastern aesthetic, for sure, yeah

[surreal osprey]

cultures with different styles would be nice, something asian etc

so far we only have mystics who are kinda arabian

[hidden heart]

Id like to see a few more "attractive" races. Lamia perhaps. Not just different types of furries though I am not opposed to them.

Id like cultural skins. High culture might be SLIGHTLY Helenic but id like more dedicated Helenic theme, I am sure people would like to have the option to go further than just the very slight tinge some of them have. Russian, Helenic, East Asian, Arabian, Egyptian, ect

If the game is well loved I suspect modders will step in on that one

[sage grove]

Lamias I think I'd prefer to have as non-Form units, they have some weird physiology that I think would benefit from dedicated animations

[compact bone]

Somebody might have said it already, but I'd like to see some Boarkin.

[surreal osprey]

Im advocating for snake-lower body transformation as minor and multiple arms as minor too.

So we can mix them with demonise and angelise for fun results

[sage grove]

Haha, I won't deny it would be cool

Of course, having naga in the game doesn't mean we couldn't get snake-transformations either

[hasty gulch]

A nomad culture so I could remake Azracs, and other forms in their cultural style, would be pretty neat.

[latent halo]

I am also a great nomad fan, yet I believe that integrating nomads into aow4 would be even harder than trying it in aow3
Still wishing is allowed

[wild bison]

We suggested Vampires Right?
Need Wizard King Dio.

[strange frigate]

oh god

would be funny

[vocal turret]

Draconias are must - maybe in a future dlc?

[untold abyss]

NO. ||Not maybe, it's confirmed.||

[rich hill]

lizards and draconian transform are in the first dlc

[strange frigate]

i would like to see some snake people

[hollow compass]

Yeah i love snakes too

[severe socket]

Planetfall had a similar unit.

[hollow compass]

Hmm this mean we can import this unit from Planetfall

Maaaaybe

[severe socket]

Well, it's lizard serpent with fiery claws, which shoots sonic bolts from his gauntlets.

[torpid plover]

Kobold because you know every Fantasy game needs one of those.

https://fxtwitter.com/BeraCerbera/status/1650902992038641669?t=JmAuwMe7hlJEBPjeIThC0g&s=19

[calm harness]

Don't goblins already fit the kobold archetype?

[torpid plover]

They covered the short stack but not the silly lizard people

[hasty gulch]

I mean, Reptilian form in the first DLC - make their height as small as possible, and then use Tome of the Horde's Spawnkin transformation to make them even smaller

Boom, Kobolds

[torpid plover]

I don't really care if it's a form or a creature I just think it'll be cute to see kobolds in this game

Maybe even party with the goblins

[surreal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/lizardmen-total-war-warhammer-skink-skinks-saurus-gif-19365757

warhammer skinks led by overweight toad

totally gonna make it

[torpid plover]

What about a hybrid race like this cat girl for example

[severe socket]

But tigrans are in game.

[hidden heart]

I am not sure about that specific one but I would like some exotically attractive humanoid races rather then generic fantasy races and furries being our only options

[torpid plover]

I agree with you but the same time it's like how many creatures have been already been introduced into fantasy

There's only so many combinations you can do before you went into some very bizarre stuff that at that point it's just sci-fi

[wild bison]

Cat People ad Cat Girls are not the same, trust me that is 2 different fanbases.

[wild bison]

I think we will probably get the Syrons eventually.

[torpid plover]

The monkey Carl speaks truth

[wild bison]

At least I asked for something other than more animal people in Slime and Mushroom People.

[torpid plover]

Okay what about a orb of light that surrounded by crystals that make a humanoid shape?

We can call them Sparky's

[wild bison]

Sentient Crystals in a Robot Body.

I love The Shard, the Iron Knights were so cool.
Shame they ain't canon.

[surreal osprey]

Syrons are basically elf form with different culture

[humble stone]

Just elemental beings could be nice. Give them a glow and some elemental effects. It would save them having to make a part-every element enchantment in future tomes.

[deft mauve]

No more animals please. How about Cyclops? Half-giants? Bugbears? Trolls? Fairy?

[humble stone]

Trolls are a neutral you can get. Supergrowth goblins also are pretty trolly.

[calm harness]

Fairies are a also a neutral you can get.

[hidden heart]

I hope the dragon leaders and enchantments/transformations let you chose your elemental alignment rather that full generic or fire only

[calm harness]

I think trolls are also

[humble stone]

Fairy could be good, but it might be a form in the fey expansion.

[calm harness]

Fairies are already in the game as neutrals so that's unlikely.

[humble stone]

Er transformation

Right but like fey form might give you butterfly wings and make you smaller or something.

They haven't toughed naga and they were neutrals in 3.

Also would love the Goro style 4 armed pit masters from shadow magic as a form.

[surreal osprey]

i really wish they add naga-body transformation and 4 arms transformation later, maybe as wild magic tomes(chaos+nature?) as minor transformations
we would be able to make some fun combinations, like angelic snakes, gigantic goros with 4 arms

[calm harness]

I think they said they won't have multiple affinity tomes.

[surreal osprey]

on release, but iirc they planned it for later

[calm harness]

I think they said overall they don't plan doing multiple affinity tomes, but who knows.

[humble stone]

Multiple affinity tomes are such fertile ground for ideas I'd be shocked if we never saw them in expansions.

[humble stone]

Well that's sorta the issue right now. Almost anything other than animal people is either cosmetics we can add to our current forms like melty yellow skin for syrons or its a big enough advantage that it should probably be a transformation like golem people, aquatic people, or what have you.

It will be interesting to see how they expand it going forward. They'll either need to let some things be both like mushroom people even though there's a ton of plant trasformations or they'll have to make new forms based off of things we haven't seen before.

[surreal osprey]

it was mentioned that they already have them in code basically, just didnt have time for them at release, there is already too much to do and balance, but tech is here and it will be added

as for forms, i never hide the fact that im very disappointed by them, really, just a cosmetic forms are boring, with pretty boring traits that don't define race and dont provide real diversity. races just dont feel unique at all, cultures are.

so there are 2 possibilities really
-all later added forms would be inoffensive just for looks, like lizardkin in 1st dlc and later some furries etc, all "unique" stuff will go to transformations
-or DLC forms would actually have mechanics tied to them and be played differently from default, but id not count on that

as for me im planning to either work myself or see other people work on mods, if thats even possible, to make forms actually unique, like maybe special abilities and traits OUTSIDE of traits we can actually pick. like a Pounce on felines(like in 3) for example.

but yeah, i find forms just boring

[humble stone]

I would love higher impact form traits that come with a bane like starting with large (maybe not as big as super growth) characters but have a higher upkeep or other penalty.

That being said, your form almost has to start simple because by the time you're done you have a dozen abilities all effecting the readability of what a unit does.

I think simple options with no drawbacks is a good start. Hopefully by the end of the support cycle they'll be in a more interesting place.

[balmy laurel]

I second the Naga and the Lizardmen! 😄

[untold canyon]

There are demon units as well as a demon transformation.

[calm harness]

Demon isn't a form though, its possible we could get a fairy transformation, but not a form.

[untold canyon]

Sounds arbitrary.

[late rock]

would be neat to see a transformation that makes your people part-fey ngl

[naive rose]

Fae transform would be a great one for primal fury

[gentle nymph]

whats primal about fey

[proud gale]

The description of the Primal Fury DLC has fey explicitly as well as a few fey themes.

More importantly, butterflies are the OG transformation.

[untold canyon]

The icon for evolving units is a butterfly.

[proud eagle]

I kind of want minor transformation variants of the major ones. Mostly I want ghoul to be a minor transformation so I could be undead angels or demons

[gloomy sparrow]

Yeah, I think centaurs and other non-bipeds would work best as a body trait. That way you could end up with a much greater variety of centaur races, not just ones with human features. The trait making all of your units cav is pretty strong too, so you probably wouldn't have to give them any extra bonuses other than maybe the +10 hp to put them in line with the other mount options.

[pale crest]

all 15 from shadow magic

[acoustic nebula]

Dolphins

Please upvote, very important.

[robust cobalt]

Some sort of avian race (would prefer ducks!), lizardfolk/dragons, and something really alien, like an insectoid race.

Also I know it would never happen but would love a cavy race. A race of Guinea pigs, knights in shining armor and all, just being friendly and vassalising everything would be hilarious.

[calm harness]

Lizard people have been confirmed for the dragon dlc.

[scarlet rover]

Gnolls pls. Or wolves / dogs. something dog-like to counter the inferior catmen

[near plaza]

Aperently based on culture

The lizards can look like crocodiles or like regular lizards

[near plaza]

So remember how the nature themed DLC has new „beast“ forms? And weve been thinking if that means warhammer beastmen or werewolves.

So with my obsessive study of the dragon dlc pictures: what if:

DLC forms have unit customization. Specifically, what if you can change their heads.

We already know that some forma like orcs or elvs will change based on the unit.
While others like moles really just have one head type.

So WHAT IF the Beast forms are literally just „beast“, a furry body, but with different Head options not just for your leader but also your units, like Goat heads, wolf heads etc.