Some problems encountered with eye tracking when using the HTC Focus Vision to play VRChat

[jaunty shuttle]

Hello. I'd like to ask about a situation. When I'm using the HTC Focus Vision to play VRChat and turn on the eye tracking function, the maximum value of the "eyelid" parameter can only reach 0.75. But when I use the Vive Pro Eye, the maximum value can reach 1. I asked the HTC customer service, and they could only tell me how to turn on the eye tracking function... I consulted some friends who bought the HTC Focus Vision at its initial release, and they said that at first, the maximum value of the "eyelid" could also reach 1, but recently they found that it can only reach 0.75 as well. I've tried both the official version and the beta version of HTC's streaming software, and I've calibrated the eye tracking function repeatedly. In VRCFT, the module I'm using is the ViveStreamingFaceTrackingModule. I can guarantee that I'm following the correct procedure during use. I'd like to ask if anyone else has encountered the same situation as me? And how can I solve the problems I mentioned above?😫

[kindred moat]

I dont think there is a fix for this right now. I dont think eye wide ever worked reliably with HTC eyetracking.

Vive Pro Eye does use Tobii Eyetracking and not HTC eyetracking, so the model/software (and even hardware) is completely different.

[jaunty shuttle]

However, according to the descriptions of my friends whom I've asked, there was no such problem with the HTC Focus Vision at the very beginning. This issue only occurred after the recent update. It would be absurd if the data of "eyelid" for the eye-tracking function is limited to a maximum value of 0.75.😫

[kindred moat]

I am curious, does it only happen with the streaming module, or also with SRanipal? Since you likely have both installed since you also seem to have a vpe.

[jaunty shuttle]

It happened in the streaming module. Can the HTC Focus Vision use the Sranipal module? I haven't tried it. Before I got the HFV, I consulted my friends. They said that the streaming module was needed, so I installed it directly. When I opened VRCFT, it also called the streaming module by default. Maybe I should try uninstalling the streaming module? Let's see if I can use the Sranipal.👀

[kindred moat]

SRanipal has a wireless device support (for Focus 3 and XRE). Its not the recommended way to run it, but yes, it does work with the VFV.

Just a idea of course. You'd have to run the up-to-date version of sranipal though.

[jaunty shuttle]

Thank you so much for telling me this news. I'm going to give it a try right now.😋

[kindred moat]

Just be aware that while it does work, its not the recommended way to run it (as Sranipal as a whole is legacy software) but it does allow you to use a different software stack, so if one has issues right now..

The Sranipal tray icon should light up purple instead of green when connected to vive streaming

[jaunty shuttle]

I just tried the Sranipal. Unfortunately, it has the same problem as well.😩 😩

[kindred moat]

Weird. It uses entirely different software and a entirely different module

[jaunty shuttle]

It's really disappointing

[kindred moat]

I suppose it is possible htc updated the eyetracker firmware and that is what broke it if everybody else has the same issue

Your ET IR leds are all still working?

[jaunty shuttle]

It runs perfectly.

[jaunty shuttle]

I just saw that someone on Discord found the same problem on March 28th.

[jaunty shuttle]

I think the problem should have occurred after the eye-tracking firmware was updated. I hope HTC can fix it as soon as possible.😫

[kindred moat]

Have you tried resetting the OSC cache in VRChat?

[jaunty shuttle]

i

[broken sequoia]

What version do you have now?

[jaunty shuttle]

I have tried it.

[jaunty shuttle]

Sorry, I haven't found out where to check the version of the eye - tracking firmware. However, I have tried the latest official version and the latest beta version of the HTC streaming software.

[broken sequoia]

Its in Headset settings > input data > eye tracking module

[jaunty shuttle]

801002007

[broken sequoia]

hmm.... Ill need to check mine VFV to see if I have it too

but I cant rn lol

[jaunty shuttle]

I'm looking forward to your results.

[kindred moat]

Did you try it with a different VRCFT-set up avatar?

just brainstorming though

Just to rule out the avatar maker updated the model and incorrectly set the blendshape value higher than 0

(in case you did not make it yourself in unity)

I don't think this is the issue though if it is working on your VPE (though the VPE also has some eyetracking specific parameters that are supported but not on the VFV, like eye wide as I mentioned earlier)

[jaunty shuttle]

Maybe what I said about the eyelid parameter being restricted to 0.75 and the non-recognition of the "eye wide" parameter are the same issue.

[jaunty shuttle]

Is there any news about when it will be repaired? Or is it completely unsupported by the hardware?

[kindred moat]

Has never been working on HTC eyetracking since VFV release.

[jaunty shuttle]

oh,no.....

[kindred moat]

Keep in mind the VFV has the camera on the side of the lens, while the VPE gets a "through the lens" view of your eye

[broken sequoia]

we are talking abt eye wide now?

[kindred moat]

Yes, eye wide specifically is not supported (as of right now) on VFV iirc

it's still listed as broken under VRCFT's feature page too

(Focus 3 using basically the same ET software than VFV)

[jaunty shuttle]

But P4P also uses the same technology, doesn't it? P4P can also capture the "eye wide" parameter, and even third-party open-source solutions can achieve this.

[kindred moat]

Yes but P4P, unlike HTC Eyetracking, does get the data by merging the ET data for both eyes inside the model for more accurate tracking

which is why you cannot go cross-eyed with P4P or QPro, but with the VFV, you can.

[broken sequoia]

squeeze works for me on VFV lol

[broken sequoia]

We are still waiting heh...

[jaunty shuttle]

It's really a disappointing result.

😭

[kindred moat]

I think squeeze got patched in by now.
HTC at some point said they want to add/fix both but squeeze is in, and eye wide is not

which is why I would personally not put my hand into the fire for wide coming in the future.
If it was a easy fix/addition, I am sure they would have already done it

[jaunty shuttle]

OK, I see. Thank you very much for your explanations.

I'm going to cry for a while now.

[broken sequoia]

they said they done it, but results are bad and its delayed

[kindred moat]

VPE sets the bar really high with Eyetracking I am afraid.
The only headset with better eyetracking than a VPE as of today is a lens-modified VPE with spheric instead of fresnel lenses (which I personally still use until my Beyond 2 eye is here at least)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CKZQP1bZME

^ the angle the VPE eyetracker gets, for reference. it's much easier to get good ET data with a front view like that

I do hope HTC eventually adds a hot-mirror to allow through-the-lens tracking like that with another headset in the future, even in the DIY eyetracking community (ETVR) this is slowly becoming more popular

[broken sequoia]

I always wanted to get VPE, but in my country its impossible to get ;(

[jaunty shuttle]

Are there any good methods to replace the "eye wide" parameter to trigger the eye - opening animation?

[kindred moat]

It's a good headset if you care a lot about good ET/FT, but the visuals, despite being oled, are very aged and I would personally only recommend the VPE to people that are willing to do a lens and display swap on it.

[broken sequoia]

Yeah... I just wish I would get it someday heh...

[kindred moat]

They are rarities in their own way yeah

[broken sequoia]

but for now, Im happy with mine VFV, and eye tracking works for me really good

[kindred moat]

The ET is alright I think. could still use some polishing (like with eye wide)

[jaunty shuttle]

I really need the "eye wide" .😭😭😭😭

[kindred moat]

I personally didn't get the VFV but I had other reasons (as I said, I did order a beyond 2 eye, which will likely be significantly worse ET too)

I tried the XRE once, after that experience, I wasn't that much interested in the VFV.
Not saying it's a bad HMD, just.. not for me.

Any headset I tried with LCD panels just felt.. really washed out with the image quality (I do use Samsung Odyssey+ displays in my VPE and manually changed the contrast to 1:10,000 by disabling SteamVR's black clamping)

[broken sequoia]

I just wait for someone to modify and make tutorial to change lenses lol

[kindred moat]

So only micro-oled headsets interest me, and sadly micro-oled does not work without pancake lenses (I personally prefer aspherics/spherics), and well, pancake lenses don't support hot-mirrors for through-the-lens ET

[kindred moat]

For VFV?
Not really recommended. for the same reason VP2 was not recommended with a lens mod since you cannot manually change the lens distortion profile easily.

Vive Pro 2 and Vive Focus 3 / Vision all use the same display/lens assembly

Just like OG Vive, Vive Pro and Vive Cosmos all shared HTC's old lens design (but displays varied)

[broken sequoia]

hm.. maybe u are right...

[kindred moat]

I've seen Index lens mods as of lately though.
Native SteamVR Headsets (OG Vive, Vive Pro (1 and eye), Index and Beyond (1, 2 and 2 eye) let you change the distortion profile in a .json config file on the headset

The same .json file that also has the location/calibration of all of those headset's base station sensors made using the SteamVR HDK.

So you can quite literially flash the new .json onto the headset (SteamVR is all you need for that) and the new distortion profile is saved on the headset

So you can even use it on a entirely different PC and it will still have the new distortion profile for the modded lenses, quite cool.

[broken sequoia]

yeah, sounds cool, maybe Ill change lenses on my index

[kindred moat]

On Index, it requires removing the displays which Valve unfortunately glued on

You can't get the internal lens out from the front.
VP2/VFV uses a similar, second internal lens, similar to Index.
on VP1/VPE, it's just a single front lens

Still need a teardown on VPE though if you want to not risk breaking eyetracking stuff :3

Got some pics tho!

Ignore the eyetracking camera behind the lens

[broken sequoia]

WoW! Its super clear!

[kindred moat]

It's the same lens people put into VPE/VP1

10$ lens from a old 2016 samsung phone vr headset

[broken sequoia]

XD

[kindred moat]

^ same lens inside a VPE I modded for a friend

They are not without drawbacks though. they have very little barrel distortion / pupil swim but it's still present.

Same pro/con's you would find about Pimax, Varjo or VRgineers (both Somnium and XTAL) lenses since they all use aspheric lenses too

I kind of derailed this discussion a bit, sorry >w< am nerding too much hehe

[broken sequoia]

So I checked and.. I think I have it too, I mean.. I didnt calibrated ET before testing but I have 0.75 too (I didnt calibrated ET bc its 3 AM for me and I want to sleep so yeah lol)