Then again, the faith could also be placed at an individual level, religion shouldn't be necessary. So what's actually the point? I also had the thought that it's probably necessary because humans are weak minded, and look for a greater cause in the things they do. In addition, this weakness causes them to doubt themselves. So when they follow a religion, it puts them at ease you know—the actions they take are in line with so many people and such a divine existence. Although it never truly lines up. They bend and interpret it to their own convenience to convince themselves they're right. Religion is definitely and absolutely necessary, but people who bend it to their liking will forever be a fatal flaw. Perhaps, free will is something that should definitely exist and is necessary, but not everyone deserves it. Of course anyone could argue that I'm doing the same thing as those whom I'm criticising, but then they'd be doing the same:) and so on. So all we can really do is ponder. We're weak after all:)
#Thoughts
blazing gyro
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@drifting inlet
@toxic schooner
Thoughts
@runic ferry
@proud tangle
Good night for now people
I'm sleepy I couldn't frame accurately what I wanted to convey
Maybe I'll make some changes tomorrow
Maybe not
Also this is just a friendly discussion for thoughts:)) remember that
frigid harnessBOT
toxic schooner
[Criticism of religion] is the start of criticism. [We have criticised it] not to pluck the flower from the chain so that we must wear the chain without consolation but so that we may break the chain and cull the living flower
The view you expressed is not far from what Voltaire says
proud tangle
Relgion isnt just necessary, its part of the brains wiring, our brain want it. (neuroscience major)
toxic schooner
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
This comes from his poem Épître à l’auteur du livre des Trois imposteurs (1770), where he argues that belief in God is socially useful, even if God’s existence is debatable. Voltaire saw religion as a means to keep social order, particularly among those he thought might otherwise act immorally.
Not my personal view, but you're in good company
toxic schooner
[Criticism of religion] is the start of criticism. [We have criticised it] not t...
||that's Marx but I quote it without the name because people panic when they see Marx||
It also is essentially my view, which is the strictly materialist one
blazing gyro
Relgion isnt just necessary, its part of the brains wiring, our brain want it. (...
There are still exceptions right
Atheists
Or people who believe in god without following any religion
blazing gyro
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
This comes from hi...
Yepp exactly
blazing gyro
It also is essentially my view, which is the strictly materialist one
I agree to be honest
I'm obviously not gonna debate on whether God exists or not
Maybe god really exists
Maybe what marx said has already become reality
We can never prove one or the other
If the world turned upside down
And I was falling into the sky,
Would I land in heaven?
Would there be a God to catch me?
Idk pretty random
toxic schooner
Well, its a sort of invocation - which is why I like Marx, its active. Its a call to adopt a method of reasoning - reject the supernatural and the natural becomes shapeable is the thrust of his point. Also, there's an implicit rejection of Voltaire's position - by calling for the criticism of religion, he assumes that it is NOT needed by 'those [Voltaire] thought might otherwise act immorally.'
The Marx section (from Marx's introduction to Hegels philosophy of right) goes on to say: '[religion] is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of a soulless situation; [and then the bit everyone knows] it is the opiate of the masses.' That is where he splits from Voltaire.
toxic schooner
Maybe god really exists
Yeah exactly as you say on this; this is not the interesting question to me (unless something happened that could really prove it one way or the other)
proud tangle
There are still exceptions right
Not really, they just deny that thought. But in their brain neuroanatomy that part that yearns for God still rings.
toxic schooner
Would you not agree, though, that the brain wants a lot of things that aren't good for it? The opiate analogy for example.
proud tangle
It's normal for us humans not follow what our brain thinks
proud tangle
Would you not agree, though, that the brain *wants* a lot of things that aren't ...
Haha I just said that
toxic schooner
Yupyup
blazing gyro
Not really, they just deny that thought. But in their brain neuroanatomy that pa...
What about those who accept and believe in god, but not religion
frigid harnessBOT
proud tangle
What about those who accept and believe in god, but not religion
Well yeah that's what I'm saying, so like it wants faith more so then religion.
blazing gyro
Well, its a sort of invocation - which is why I like Marx, its active. Its a cal...
I mean criticising it doesn't exactly equate to saying it's not needed
blazing gyro
Well yeah that's what I'm saying, so like it wants faith more so then religion.
I guess
Faith is something it wants
But religion is something it needs
To overcome it's weaknesses
toxic schooner
I mean criticising it doesn't exactly equate to saying it's not needed
Generally yes, but in that quote it is the thrust of the point; it is saying if the material conditions improve to alleviate the suffering for which religion is the consolation, its necessity evaporates.
And, to the materialist, to cling to it [religion] is to cling to an impediment of democratisation of power, and therefore material progress.
So its a direct contradiction of the line of thinking 'we need it to keep those lot in their place'
If we separate religion and faith, as we've been doing, a good source for the inevitability of the latter is Freud's future of an illusion, where he argues: as long as we are afraid and conscious of death, there will be faith.
"Life, as we find it, is too hard for us; it brings us too many pains, disappointments, and impossible tasks. In order to bear it we cannot dispense with palliative measures. … There is perhaps no stronger need in childhood than for a father's protection, and thus the benevolent rule of a divine Providence allays our fears of the dangers of life."
toxic schooner
So its a direct contradiction of the line of thinking 'we need it to keep those ...
On this: it is more appealing to me to confront the society which requires religion to keep its members moral, than to defend it without criticism.
runic ferry
Then again, the faith could also be placed at an individual level, religion shou...
Have you read Sapiens? That book does explore this topic, I think you'd find it interesting
blazing gyro
If we separate religion and faith, as we've been doing, a good source for the in...
You seem to know a lot about this damn
Haha I'm just someone who happens to have weird thoughts from time to time
blazing gyro
Have you read Sapiens? That book does explore this topic, I think you'd find it ...
To be honest, i haven't read any article in regards to this topic 😭😭
But if I get the time, I'll surely check it out
Although it'll probably be much better if I pay more attention to my school books🔥🔥
blazing gyro
If we separate religion and faith, as we've been doing, a good source for the in...
Conscious of death Or rather, what comes after death
toxic schooner
Conscious of death Or rather, what comes after death
Quite
toxic schooner
Haha I'm just someone who happens to have weird thoughts from time to time
Sorry about that yeah, wasn't trying to posture, just drawing on those because they've phrased it better than I ever could. Though if deciding you need to learn was your reaction, that's honestly awesome.
blazing gyro
Sorry about that yeah, wasn't trying to posture, just drawing on those because t...
Yes yes I wasn't criticising you, I just realised that there's a lot more out there that could help me in shaping my thoughts yk