Swells/Corruption.

[daring lagoon]

Just a short experimental poem I wrote to help me get back into the swing of things, don't take it too seriously.

[balmy niche]

The format is really fascinating and a bit mind boggling. It seems like so many things are going on all at once, and it really intrigues me on how to intercept the poem. I love it.

[deft steppe]

This is crazy good juniper, what im imagining from the imagery is your consciousness being uploaded into a machine and the pain inside is having a hard time processing everything in full, I really like the ship metaphor for your body too, the ending seems to me like you tried to hack through your thoughts and either not remember the pain or you got through the pain to let your conscious be uploaded (or free). I could be completely off but amazin piece none the less Juniper 🤌

[daring lagoon]

Thanks so much!

[sand yacht]

ok this is quite the poem you got here wow ! im getting a lot of computer programming mix with factory theme

the most interesting poem I saw today !

the format is incredible as well, I've never seen this before

[silk crown]

This was trully an experience to read, amazing imagery here. I can feel the pain from the poem it makes me think of corrupted ideas spreading deeper into the mind and causing chaos.

[daring lagoon]

for anyone who reads this in the future, i recommend you read it on desktop because mobile messes up the formatting a bit

[leaden coral]

Wtf is this

[daring lagoon]

It is a poem.

[leaden coral]

A computer 30 year old wrote this?

[daring lagoon]

I wrote it.

[leaden coral]

I know you wrote it

but according to me, feel free todisagree

your poem is not good and has no structure

its just Creative Writing at this point

and you did not check my poems too

[daring lagoon]

Well you're certainly valid to your opinion. Sorry about not checking out your poems I developed a severe bursitis in my hip at dialysis and had to spend all day in the hospital yesterday getting it checked out.

Could barely walk.

[leaden coral]

that is alright then

[daring lagoon]

I can check them out now. Sorry you didn't enjoy this poem, btw. It was a bit of an experiment and I know it's not going to work for everyone.

[leaden coral]

if you are experimenting with something
please make sure that it looks like a poem

it looks like a computer script

11/10 for creativity tho

[daring lagoon]

I was trying to express a metaphor that the mind operates my body like a computer would. Analyzing large strings of texts to describe the pain my body feels. I suppose it didn't get the message across.

Can you send me one of your poems? I'd be happy to feedback.

[leaden coral]

it did

I can see that well

I just did not like the way you put it

[daring lagoon]

That's valid.

[leaden coral]

according to me ,this does not resemble a poem

There should be a definition, of what poem is and when it stops becoming one

in my personal opinion, for me it did

that is not your problem

that is something I dislike so you dont need to feel bad abt this

[vapid narwhal]

*that is something I

dislike so you dont need to

feel bad abt this*

- harsha3000bc

[leaden coral]

Shut up bro

https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224047838015782962

https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224034743163814038

[daring lagoon]

I took inspiration from similar poems I've read.

[leaden coral]

okay

[daring lagoon]

#1180592609069109349 @leaden coral Can you check this one out? I feel you may like it more.

[silk crown]

Couldnt you say that a bit more nicer? Who starts and argument with "wtf is this?" I understand harsh criticism is smth necessary but this is straight up rude

[leaden coral]

I actually legit got confused on that

[leaden coral]

But later I did address it with Civility

the first one were because I was shocked lmao

[daring lagoon]

There seems to be an influx of people cosplaying as Renoir.

[daring lagoon]

according to 24 years of writing your poem is not more structured using quatrains - it has too irregular of rhythms to qualify as a cannonesque poem and as well it doesn't provide a robust rhyme scheme.

If your definition of structure is merely a stanza... and not a form itself nor the rules underlying the freeverse nonce I don't know what to tell you. Another friend of mine was amazed Juniper learned meter in about a week to get the basics - that guy wrote this

[daring lagoon]

So if June's poems are good enough for the dude who spent ONE year writing that - I think it may not be so unstructured after all.

To be honest this poem probably invokes cryptography and is meant to be heard AND read if I had to guess - the easily legible parts have a ton of devices and great diction that thematically fits I feel as well.

Criticism is fine - but be prepared for others to respond to it - I'm just worried honestly if you constrains yourself to your current paradigm and run around telling people "this isn't a poem" - it won't go well tbh I feel. People want robust critique. Not quips.

[daring lagoon]

I'll be happy to analyze one of your poems. They are quite good I feel. I'd focus on being more salient in feedback for now if I were you.

You'd be surprised how big of a difference networking makes.

[leaden coral]

what?

[leaden coral]

ok I https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224047838015782962

https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224034743163814038

https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224056255098654801

[daring lagoon]

any preference?

[leaden coral]

you do not need Robust rhyme scheme

A poem needs to have atleast a good meaning to convey
or a proper structure and grammar to have meaningful description

and it does not
And never should , be written in such a way that you could literally make a prose out of it

[leaden coral]

read all of that
those are not perfect anyways

[daring lagoon]

your poem feels more prosaic then this for my personal standards

[vapid narwhal]

*your poem feels more

prosaic then this for my

personal standards*

- valhallatchyagirl

[daring lagoon]

but to each their own

will review! take care

[leaden coral]

you literaly said
"she spent time , so it must be good"

that is not something I would like to

[leaden coral]

OK how

[daring lagoon]

Hi I appreciate the differing opinions on my poem but could we not turn my poem thread into a debate club.

[leaden coral]

Come to DMs and explain me

[leaden coral]

I asked her to come in dms dw

[daring lagoon]

This is actually so true. I had recently been solving cryptography puzzles lol.

[wintry harbor]

this is just false. the poem obviously possesses structure, i've no clue what you're trying to say. do you mean it doesn't have regular structure? cuz if so fine enough. granted this does clear some things up for me. bad critique like this does put into perspective why all the poems i've seen of yours have been slop.

[leaden coral]

You are blind

The poem has no structure

if it has then define what looks like structure to you then

[leaden coral]

bad critique ? already rushed to conclusion

[leaden coral]

okay if my poems are slop then its fine

I wont get mad at it lmao

the problem is you did not even give criticism

[wintry harbor]

i already distinguished structure in my reply to you, why repeat myself

[wintry harbor]

this is also false

[leaden coral]

in my poems

[leaden coral]

No you did not

[wintry harbor]

and yes, falsehoods are not good to include in critique, they are a symptom of bad critique

[wintry harbor]

you haven't asked me

[leaden coral]

THE POEM IS LITERALLY TAGGED FOR COMMENTING

[leaden coral]

another bulshit

[wintry harbor]

i only give critique to people who specifically ask me

its like saying a poem that has end rhyme, doesn't rhyme

you don't think accuracy is important when giving critique? that's extremely fascinating

almost strikes me as anti-intellectual in a way, curious to see if you'll elaborate on that at all (not getting my hopes up though!).

im not replying to dms

[daring lagoon]

): i was gonna tell u how awesome u are.

[wintry harbor]

ur welcome in dms lol

[leaden coral]

Oh man

the reason why I dmed was

this is not a place for argument

[leaden coral]

she said

not to debate heere

so I dmed

@daring lagoon should I argue or not?

[daring lagoon]

Y'all can discuss it here that's fine.

If Noize doesn't feel comfortable with you in her dms don't dm her.

[leaden coral]

Then I will proceed

[leaden coral]

Then you are the problem, with your ideals

when my poems specifically ask for comments and you refuse

[leaden coral]

when did I say that?

[leaden coral]

Which one is false

[leaden coral]

you did not

and you did not answer my questions at all, you dodged all of them and started using fallacies

[wintry harbor]

idk what ur talking about at this point, it doesn't seem very coherent

[wintry harbor]

this is the least invasive approach wdym

[leaden coral]

no
that is the only logical conclusion

you dont get to tell how is my apprach

unless you logically prove it wrong

[wintry harbor]

i don't think you understand what logic is, honestly

[leaden coral]

because you lied about everything

and I responded to everything

[wintry harbor]

obviously not everyone wants my form of critique

[leaden coral]

I answered all, you did none

you dont know what logic is

[wintry harbor]

just cuz they ask generically, is no indication that they want my feedback specifically

[leaden coral]

what does that has to do with
Strucutre of poem

[wintry harbor]

and there's no reason for me to assume that

[leaden coral]

if they ask you, they ask your feedback

[leaden coral]

there are

when a person asks different people
they want different opinion so that they can work on flaws

they do not want General ones, they want all the kinds they can get

[wintry harbor]

they don't ask me is the point lol

[leaden coral]

you dont know basic logics

[leaden coral]

You missed the point

[wintry harbor]

then speak more coherently, idk what to tell you

[leaden coral]

The Poems are tagged with "Comments' or "Poetry Feedback:

ofcouse they are asking for everyone

[silk crown]

yea that doesnt mean you can be randomly rude

[leaden coral]

and even if I leave all that

[leaden coral]

ok what does me being rude has to do with poem

[wintry harbor]

i also am blunt and honest with my critique and apply high standards

this obviously isn't going to help everyone

[leaden coral]

me being rude makes poem less structured

[leaden coral]

I am not asking that

I am asking

what According to you is a structure

[wintry harbor]

idk how you could disagree with me here unless you simply fail to recognize human beings as complex and multi-faceted

[leaden coral]

you dodged this 100 times

[leaden coral]

yah but objective reasoning and logics are not

okay

but atleast give me what you think about structure

[daring lagoon]

I don't even have an issue with the harsh critique I just feel like calling this not a poem when there is clear poetic devices and imagery used is unfair.

[leaden coral]

stop yapping about what you are or not

[wintry harbor]

structure is just the way in which words are arranged together on a page

[leaden coral]

Poetic Devices can be used anywhere
They are not restricted to peom

[wintry harbor]

well no, u tried to criticize my approach, failed to do so and have now circled back to a question with an answer that you could have gleaned via comprehensive reading

[leaden coral]

Yeah
so the poem can have any structurer?

[wintry harbor]

obviously

[leaden coral]

I did, you did not respond to that

[spring thistle]

I see what you mean a Poem in Origin has surten rules

[wintry harbor]

oh this, insane response

[leaden coral]

ok so here is why you are wrong

A poem has proper stanzas and sentences

if the words do not well define those stanzas and sentences
then its not a poem

[fervent pendant]

Wonderful! @leaden coral has just pregressed to level 14!

[wintry harbor]

yea not worth addressing lol

[leaden coral]

A normal speech is still an arrangement of words, now is this a poem? @wintry harbor

[vapid narwhal]

*A normal speech is

still an arrangement of words,

now is this a poem?*

- harsha3000bc

[wintry harbor]

it's so incredibly far removed from what i was saying that it's not even relevant anymore

[leaden coral]

dismissing without any reasoning
And just concluding it insane

nice fallacy

[wintry harbor]

wait hold on

i just said it was irrelevant

this was absolutely an appropriate response lmao

[leaden coral]

You literally use logics and reasoning to argue

[wintry harbor]

yes you can dismiss red herrings lol

[leaden coral]

that was correct one

[leaden coral]

how is it one?

you said you are this and that

and I said

what you are does not really say what is the structure of poem

I dont really care what you rae

I just want good definition, which you failed to provide

[wintry harbor]

you tried to go into reasoning and logic in response to me saying that humans being multi faceted and complex is why my critique won't work for everyone lol

[leaden coral]

you are the one missing the mark

stop blaming me of fallacious reasoning

[leaden coral]

read the above lines

[leaden coral]

Yeah logics are objective
human beings are not

[wintry harbor]

my definition was perfectly adequate wdym lol

[vapid narwhal]

*my definition

was perfectly adequate

wdym lol*

- noize /ᐠ ̞  ‸  ̞ᐟ\ﾉ

[daring lagoon]

I will say that I am not the first person to write a poem like this and I won't be the last. There has been enough people writing poems this way and calling it poems that it's formed its own genre within the rules of Poetry. Thus so that the rules have collectively started to shift.

[leaden coral]

I critiqued it, you blined?

[spring thistle]

On the first day of Rhapsody The first book came out

[wintry harbor]

where

when did you critique it

[leaden coral]

@wintry harbor

[leaden coral]

@wintry harbor

[wintry harbor]

sentences concern grammar, which concerns prose, what are you on?

this is ludicrous

it doesn't even manage to approximate the standards of the romantic era of poetry lmao

[leaden coral]

yeah how does that affect my position

[wintry harbor]

you said it needs stanzas and sentences

[leaden coral]

GRammar also concerns with poetry

[wintry harbor]

which is also somewhat questionable, given the origins of poetry as oral tradition

[leaden coral]

That sentence is also made in a way, you can have exceptions in poem
But the poem itself should not be an exception

[wintry harbor]

no, there are no sentences in classical poetry, only lines

[leaden coral]

They literally sang them, which means they had a different structure and rules regarding them

[spring thistle]

I see as you mean, I am neutral to be … I don’t mind, we are all our own rule in style but I have to be honest as to be known as it use to be that it is with Rules and so let it flow

[wintry harbor]

if you implement grammar into your poetry it actually makes it ironically more prosaic lol

[leaden coral]

No

grammar makes sense

[wintry harbor]

what?

[leaden coral]

it is used to make proper context in languages

[wintry harbor]

my guy you don't make sense

[leaden coral]

you can use it in prose or poetry

[leaden coral]

no

either tell me whats wrong

[wintry harbor]

you can, that wasn't my point

my point was that it was prosaic lol

[silk crown]

grammer is not necessarily needed in poetry

[leaden coral]

No

[leaden coral]

some grammar is necessary

[wintry harbor]

you can't just reply no to everything you have to actually make an argument lol

[leaden coral]

I did

your arguments make no snese

[daring lagoon]

yo

what is going on

[leaden coral]

ok? so?

[spring thistle]

I have to confess to my own respect, to admit and show that I have offered my soul to suffer pain and to always be, but resting on the idea that you are happy

[leaden coral]

what does that has to do with defining what a poem is

[wintry harbor]

oh so you agree with me that grammar is prosaic, that's odd

[daring lagoon]

yeah but poetry is grammatical, it just plays with the grammar but never does something unpleasant to the ears

take for example the Golden Verse, it is very weird
adjective1 adjective1 verb noun1 noun2

[leaden coral]

It can have some nature, but it cant be prose

[daring lagoon]

There are poetic devices and rules certainly used in this poem. There's even sections of the poem that are very traditional in it's poetic structuring. Take the stanza:

"Storage containment toxicity,
Love’s liner lucidity
Relief in understanding is achieved.
Sectionalized calm before the storm.
Spit out, and unforgiven.
Nautical romances with nausea."

For example. This is free-verse, which does not necessarily require stanzas. I also disagree in the fact that it doesn't have a structure. It does, it's just a loose structure as it fit the free-verse style better. The idea was to show progressive corruption in a poem, and I feel I did that effectively.

[leaden coral]

what does that do, being prosaic makes it only have more rules

[wintry harbor]

define grammatical

[leaden coral]

which you do not agree

[daring lagoon]

dreaming I saw the boy, astonished

[wintry harbor]

uhh no prosaic as i use it means, related to prose, denoting the structure of prose

[leaden coral]

Prose has lots of rules
and if you say poems are prosaic
then poems should also have rules
and not everything is a poem

[daring lagoon]

that's a golden verse, obviously without taking in accountant the meter

[leaden coral]

Ok so there is some structure?

[daring lagoon]

I don't think my golden verse is too grammatical

[wintry harbor]

i never said poems should be prosaic

[leaden coral]

https://discord.com/channels/944439929734312006/1224540279575412827

[leaden coral]

what is this

[leaden coral]

ok then how should they be?

[daring lagoon]

now let's remove the grammar but keep the order: dream I see boy astonish

[wintry harbor]

presumably they should be poems

[leaden coral]

what is that

[daring lagoon]

I don't think that's grammatical

[fervent pendant]

Wonderful! @daring lagoon has just pregressed to level 8!

[wintry harbor]

its the rule of identity

[leaden coral]

Circular reasoning

[wintry harbor]

all that is a poem, also is a poem

[leaden coral]

Ok but what is that

[wintry harbor]

no, identity

[leaden coral]

Stop using Circular reasoning

thats circular reasoning

[wintry harbor]

wait tell me you know what the rule of identity is

bro

bruh

[leaden coral]

Do you even know the definition of idenity?

[wintry harbor]

i do, broadly what does that have to do with anything

[leaden coral]

use brain

[leaden coral]

Yea
itself is similar to itself
but what is itself?

A is A
that we know, but what is A?

[wintry harbor]

all reasoning is either circular, an infinite regression, or grounded on an assumption

[leaden coral]

SO?

[daring lagoon]

I don't think my poem is ungrammatical at all. If you follow along the poem most of the lines make grammatical sense at least.

[leaden coral]

if the poems are prosaic as you say
Then there are rules to it @wintry harbor

[wintry harbor]

i get the sense if you hate the rule of identity you probably also won't like tautological truths

[leaden coral]

if Poems can be anything?

then everything can be seen as poems

but our conversation is not a poem

[wintry harbor]

this is like not even anti-empiricism

this is like anti-rationalism

[leaden coral]

NO

[wintry harbor]

i don't believe i ever said this

[leaden coral]

you basically lost the argument

[daring lagoon]

I don't think your poem is anything in particular if I'm being honest

[leaden coral]

and using Gish gallpop

[daring lagoon]

but I wasn't talking about your poem

[wintry harbor]

idkwym honestly, this isn't very coherent

poems are difficult to define

[leaden coral]

No

[wintry harbor]

what, this is like objectively true

again i must ask

do you live in reality

[daring lagoon]

It has meaning. Scooby's interpreation earlier in the chat was closest to it's original intent I suppose.

[spring thistle]

"I love them all
Sometimes I think out of nowhere
... a few seconds then feel like the whole day..
I no longer feel to recognize what I do,
and that doesn't scare me.
All our days that we manage to remember
are so many, but how many have I forgotten
... Questions may I answer because the faith
is gone, no longer there. So often
I was told to postpone everything
until what they called tomorrow,
I always thought tomorrow
is the day of what they're
telling me today.
And apparently
it doesn't
alienate
me
to stay
there at that shame
according to what shouldn't
be right... Pain may exist,
that is after all
the meaning
of love,
and love
is never
without
pain .

[leaden coral]

I dont hate it
But using rule of identity
to obectively define something is nothing but stupid

Ofcourse apple is apple
did you get anything meaningful there?

[daring lagoon]

Nice.

[wintry harbor]

you dispute stuff that's so clearly obvious it's like im talking to someone that's fully invested into the brain in the vat hypothesis

[wintry harbor]

i really just wanted to see how you would respond to it

lol

[leaden coral]

There is a key word "Diction"

[silk crown]

I dont see anything that says stanza

[daring lagoon]

as for the meter I thought I was reading dactyls but then preSENting and destiNAtion and deterioRAtion and it stopped making sense

[leaden coral]

ok so you agree that you were not responding and just playing around

[silk crown]

key word is feelings my guy

[daring lagoon]

Free-verse does not require a consistent meter.

[daring lagoon]

I think it is hard to read

[leaden coral]

Ok what is your reasoning
YOu conclude stuff without showing how its done

That is not how an argument goes

[leaden coral]

feelings refer to meaning and not the structure

[daring lagoon]

it sounds incredibly like epic verses

it is full of dactyls

[wintry harbor]

poetry in the simplest manner is just rhythmic verse and literature, usually of a rhythmic structure outside of prose, but retains the ability to incoporate various prosaic elements and still be deemed as poetry

[silk crown]

there is no designated structure to a poem

[leaden coral]

read this

[wintry harbor]

then there is poetry as a declarative concept

[silk crown]

again nothing talking about stanzas

[daring lagoon]

Fair. Was sort of intentional though. Mental corruption is a difficult thing to process. I wanted the reader to feel that anguish I felt.

[wintry harbor]

that is, its a poem, merely because the writer says it is, and for no other legitimate reason

[leaden coral]

Stanzas come under diction

[daring lagoon]

yeah I have to stop and understand all the words, some of them i even have to read the dictionary entry

[leaden coral]

ok so you actually dont have any structure and just basically called me names all the time

I say this is a poem, is it now?

[wintry harbor]

sure

[daring lagoon]

and the format makes it also unpleasant to read

[wintry harbor]

idrc

[leaden coral]

Yeah, the above poem has none of those
which is why I criticised

[daring lagoon]

the words are too long and too many to ennounce

[daring lagoon]

It looks a little better on desktop. Discord killed the formatting a bit.

[wintry harbor]

why would i challenge what you say is or isn't the category ur own work fits into

[leaden coral]

makes sense

[wintry harbor]

its a pointless hill to die on

[daring lagoon]

it is a bit tiring to ennounce

[leaden coral]

maybe for you

[wintry harbor]

as it goes there's rhythm to all language

in all forms

[leaden coral]

all sentences do not rhythem

[wintry harbor]

they absolutely do

[leaden coral]

you still say nothing meaningful

[leaden coral]

whaa?

[wintry harbor]

okay? lol

[leaden coral]

show me lmao

[daring lagoon]

let's say facts and not interpretations guys

poetry was invented by the ancient greeks

[leaden coral]

I am saying all that,

[daring lagoon]

Was sort of the point, I guess? Could have certainly made it flowed better but I think the contrast between lucidity and corruption is present at least.

and it is meant to "give rhythm" to speech

[wintry harbor]

my guy you're trying to say that speech rhythm doesn't exist

[daring lagoon]

everything else is secondary

[wintry harbor]

it clearly does

[daring lagoon]

if you don't want to use a consistent rhythm

it is fine

but you can't say poetry is not about rhythm

[wintry harbor]

in fact we can naturally distinguish synthetic rhythm in automated voices on intuition

that's how language works

[leaden coral]

@silk crown Is this something that belongs in a poem?

[leaden coral]

ok but we do distinguish

[wintry harbor]

all speech that uses stressed and unstressed syllables has rhythm

[daring lagoon]

I liked the readable part, it actually resembles heroic verse

[silk crown]

yes

[wintry harbor]

this is obvious

[leaden coral]

I am not trying to say that

I said
Not every speech we speak will be stritcly rhythemic

[silk crown]

I have a lot of pieces that is written in this style and I have seen a lot of that was written like this

[daring lagoon]

what are you yapping about

[leaden coral]

NO stanzas
NO structure
bunch of repeated sounds
and There is a number there whici looks like code

sure ok

[wintry harbor]

no, all speech has rhythm because all speech has stressed and unstressed syllables lmao

[leaden coral]

I dont really care what you see, I wanna know is this something
that fits to be a poem?

[daring lagoon]

you're wrong, morae languages do have stress but it is irrelevant to poetry

[daring lagoon]

I think one could argue it is both a piece of word design and a poem at the same time. But there's enough actual poetry here for it to be considered a poem.

[silk crown]

she already explained she was trying to convey mental unwellness and repetition is a great way to do that given the poem is about computers and when computers break they might start repeating

[leaden coral]

nice fallacy

I meant the words having rhymings
not the other meaning

[wintry harbor]

im not, that has nothing to do with what im saying

[daring lagoon]

example of a morae language, Greek

[daring lagoon]

it has everything to do

[wintry harbor]

i agree that it is irrelevant to poetry tho

[silk crown]

yes as long as it conveys emotions yes it does belong in a poem

[daring lagoon]

stress?

[leaden coral]

Yeah
but she could maintain the traditional structure and still have done that
I agree that there is a substance, but I dont see the structure
I said this in the beginning

[daring lagoon]

try not to dodge the filter - disagreement is fine though tbh

then you should disagree, because stress is the only way you can do poetry in English

[vapid narwhal]

*try not to dodge the

filter - disagreement is

fine though tbh*

- valhallatchyagirl

[daring lagoon]

SHUTUP HAIKU BOT - jk Ilu

[daring lagoon]

There are stanzas here.
There is a structure it's just loose.
You use repitition in your own poetry.
Literally all I did is replace e's with 3's, I's with 1's, and A's with 4's. If you can't decipher that that's a personal problem.

[leaden coral]

No
Speech can describe emotion, prose can describe emotion
now are those poems?

[daring lagoon]

oh and review inc tomorrow or the next harsha!

I'll also review this one - if you're curious

[leaden coral]

I still got muted dw

[daring lagoon]

yes pls.

[silk crown]

you can make use speach in a poem

[daring lagoon]

I'll be scanning the meter, analyzing the euphonic echo and also examining the structure of this nonce!

[daring lagoon]

oh just automod 😭 I also recommend for poems featuring profanity, to just use PDFs!

[wintry harbor]

if you want to be specific and modify you can dispute that poetry has a distinct repetition and rhythm scheme usually, though this is again, not always the case as you will get poetry that incorporates conversational rhythm in with its own flow

[leaden coral]

Loose structure
That does not belong to the poem
there is A LOOOSE, very LOOOSE structure
That is my complain

and there is literally a prose sentence in the poem
which is breaking the structure more

[leaden coral]

NO
I did not ask that

stop dodgeing my questions

[daring lagoon]

i mean it does have some kind of structure, but I think that was done accidentally

[leaden coral]

Yeah
the writer admits it has loose structure

[wintry harbor]

anyway i haven't seen any tenable arguments against any of what i said, and it seems like the convo is shifting so imma dip, it's a shame there aren't many formalists out there that can write good poetry ;-;

[silk crown]

you aint gonna chang ur mind I aint gonna change my mind there is no need to debate about this

[leaden coral]

which is why I dont think it fits to be a poem

[daring lagoon]

this is absolutely fake ^

[leaden coral]

NO
I asked you a question, I will change mind if you answer with tight reasoning

[daring lagoon]

It's free-verse. Google "Can free-verse be loose in it's structure" and tell me what google says.

[wintry harbor]

wdym

[daring lagoon]

morae languages when vowel length:
stressed syllables: am i a joke to you?

[leaden coral]

not all loose structures are same
post this to someone who teaches in university
And ask them directly,

You stretch things too far

that is the problem

There is something called poetic license which allows us to do some mistakes
but not destroy the whole structure or grammar

[silk crown]

tbh ıdk the concreate diffirence between prose and poems but as for speech it can be called art I suppose

[daring lagoon]

I think that when doing free verse you should keep counting syllables and meter because that freedom of not following the rules must be used to bring more beauty and not to excuse oneself

[leaden coral]

This is an example of free verse poem
and I am fine with it

yours is completely different @daring lagoon

[wintry harbor]

that's defo not what i meant, as in i did not mean to broadcast english structure as the end all be all, regardless vowel length and morae is still included in my general view and argument as to why i consider all speech to have rhythm

[leaden coral]

No
I did not ask that
I did not ask what is art or not

You said as long "yes as long as it conveys emotions yes it does belong in a poem"

so any form of writing which conveys emotions is poetry?

[daring lagoon]

That's a personal preference sure. But the whole point of free verse is to be free of structural or rhythmic limitations. Certainly you don't have to like a poem someone does in free-verse if it doesn't follow rhythmic or metrical patterns you don't like, but that does not make it "not poetry."

[daring lagoon]

I mean all speech does have "rhythm" do we care about that rhythm to make it pleasant to the ear? I don't think so

we just speak

poetry is meant to care about rhythm

[wintry harbor]

yea i can agree with this

[leaden coral]

You can have personal preferences not a problem
but you wont make it objectively a poem so that everyone has to consider

[daring lagoon]

It's also not objectively not a poem.

[daring lagoon]

I still think you should put more work into free verse

[wintry harbor]

i can also agree, though not sure i can agree with the idea of making smth pleasant sounding

[daring lagoon]

make sure that strong syllables are used for the important things in the verse

put the words in the right places to make them matter

exaggerate things to make them matter

[daring lagoon]

This is fine criticism. I think the reason people had an issue with HARSHA is because he said it "wasn't a poem".

[wintry harbor]

plus it's often the case that conversational poetry isn't fully banking on conversational rhythm the entire way through, it's often incoporating that rhythm into itself rather

[daring lagoon]

anyone be literate be illiterate be this be that is able to enjoy a well written poem

if you make something unpleasant

nobody will enjoy it

[leaden coral]

what makes it a poem then?

[wintry harbor]

people can still derive meaning from things that seem unpleasant to them tho

[daring lagoon]

not unpleasant but bland

[wintry harbor]

there's also often more at play with unpleasant or uncanny rhythmic structures

there may be a thematic reason for why a poem is written in a certain way that is unpleasant

[daring lagoon]

but it is making sense of some rhythm pattern

[wintry harbor]

well bland could be a number of things

[daring lagoon]

if you're doing poetry without making councious decisions about the rhythm then what are you doing

[wintry harbor]

i find homogenous legs in poetry to be quite bland as well honestly

[wintry harbor]

writing like a formalist

[daring lagoon]

I deem poems that don't try to bring a funny rhythm as bland

[leaden coral]

@daring lagoon https://writersrelief.com/free-verse-the-hidden-rules-of-free-verse-poetry/

https://medium.com/@oscaryuill/poetry-in-the-age-of-arse-dribble-923642f6dbc

Free verse is not poetry

[wintry harbor]

i mean do you enjoy prose? cuz that doesn't necessarily pay as much attention to rhythm

i mean it does to some extent when its well written

[leaden coral]

so it not objectively Poetry @daring lagoon

[wintry harbor]

and incorporating different dialects

but otherwise

[daring lagoon]

Posting a blog opinion does not make that opinion objective.

[wintry harbor]

ngl, i don't think an opinion piece published in the medium magazine is going to be a particularly good source

[leaden coral]

Ok then you are the one not reading them

Free verse poetry literally takes out things which make a poetry

then any speech can be called poetry, if the writer says so

[wintry harbor]

i feel like you have to fail to understand the meaning of the word "free" to make that statement

a really silly thing to do

all free denotes is something outside of the romantic style

it could still retain rhythm, rhyme, and be evenly structured

[leaden coral]

answer my previous questions

and then come to this

you left the argument midway

[wintry harbor]

you stopped talking to me

no

[leaden coral]

no you did

[wintry harbor]

idk if your just failing to remember, or lying to me at this point

[leaden coral]

Free verse by definition is not poetry
that is a thing of its own

[wintry harbor]

this is a profoundly non binary view of literature

[daring lagoon]

I can write a poem as a format list, watch
lettuce, bread and a slice of cheese, bacon and serve with ease

[wintry harbor]

the binary view of course is all that is not prose is poetry

[vapid narwhal]

*the binary view

of course is all that is not

prose is poetry*

- noize /ᐠ ̞  ‸  ̞ᐟ\ﾉ

[leaden coral]

@wintry harbor imagine being someone who does not take things seriously
but loves to accuse people

[wintry harbor]

what

[daring lagoon]

what kind of prose do you read

[wintry harbor]

that's not a question, that's an image my guy

[leaden coral]

and still come out wrong

[leaden coral]

thats an evidence

[wintry harbor]

has an odd rhythm to it

it seems

[daring lagoon]

what is odd

the prose I read has very strict rules

[wintry harbor]

it seems like it has an odd signature

i don't mind it tho

[daring lagoon]

be it poetry, prose or prosody

all have rules

[wintry harbor]

and you don't need an even signature in poetry

[leaden coral]

you did not reply to me after this

[wintry harbor]

certainly not the case for music

[wintry harbor]

that was just incoherent wdym

and yes a poem can have any structure

[daring lagoon]

even the most disgusting music has rhythm

true, not that it necessarily needs to be consistently rhythmic

[wintry harbor]

i mean yea

maybe

[daring lagoon]

A lot of songs switch up their rhythm patterns. Sometimes multiple times in a short period.

[leaden coral]

so you did not reply? you agree to that?

[daring lagoon]

but you must pay attention that your rhythm is not arbitrary and is meant to make the poem prettier

[leaden coral]

any?
so Prose is a poem and essay is a poem?

[wintry harbor]

i have no clue what your trying to say

rhyme had nothing to do with the argument

[leaden coral]

cuz you are lying

[wintry harbor]

you could clarify instead of randomly accusing me

[leaden coral]

you said I stopped talking to you
and then you were the one you failed to repkly

[wintry harbor]

i see no logical reason why i would be dishonest about being confused by incoherent gibberish

[leaden coral]

you literally accused me rn

and its fine?

[wintry harbor]

i did reply, wdym

[leaden coral]

where?

[wintry harbor]

i believe i said i saw no tenable counters to any of my arguments

[leaden coral]

Believe? proof?

[daring lagoon]

True, and in a sense I feel I accomplish this in my poem. At least, the theme of progressive corruption concatenates with the progressively more corrupted design. In a way it's a cocnrete poem sort of.

[wintry harbor]

this was and remains true

[wintry harbor]

no, you can dig it up idrc

[leaden coral]

You literally dodged
And please use the reply feature

[wintry harbor]

anyway you reiterated a question that i likely missed, and i answered it

[leaden coral]

No

you did not

[wintry harbor]

i literally did

im not going to repeat my answer either

[leaden coral]

when does a poem stop being poem
if it can have any structure

[wintry harbor]

no

[leaden coral]

you never answered

[daring lagoon]

I don't think your poem follows any particularly rhythm

[wintry harbor]

there is no well defined boundary

[leaden coral]

ok

There is a boundary or not?

tell me that

[wintry harbor]

can you not read

[daring lagoon]

or that the rhythm changes to make words more prominent

[leaden coral]

can you not answer?

[wintry harbor]

i already listed a boundary a while ago, that which is rhythmic is poetry

[daring lagoon]

or that the rhythm does anything for the poem

[leaden coral]

ok so that means
not everything is poetry

then poetry cant have any structure

[daring lagoon]

so, you hate it?

[leaden coral]

it has some restrictions

[wintry harbor]

obviously not everything was poetry

[wintry harbor]

specifically that which is tautologically not a poem, a novel for instance

[leaden coral]

No

[wintry harbor]

a novel is categorized as prose

[leaden coral]

look at the image above

[wintry harbor]

ergo, is not poetry

[leaden coral]

ok

[wintry harbor]

why would i look at old screenshots, idc

[leaden coral]

you dont care?

[daring lagoon]

I'm just going to delete this thread. clearly my work is trash and I shouldn't have come back to writing.

[wintry harbor]

i have a decent enough memory to know what i said

[leaden coral]

you are the problem, you dont wanna admist mistkes

[leaden coral]

your memory sucks

[wintry harbor]

where's the mistake

wdym

[leaden coral]

you said, poem can have any structure

[wintry harbor]

nothing i said has been contradictory

[leaden coral]

Yes

it is

[wintry harbor]

nor incohesive with what i believe in

[leaden coral]

no reasoning for that conclusion

but I will give mine

[daring lagoon]

The poem is deleted.

there

now we can stop arguing about it.

[wintry harbor]

why, i liked it ;-;

[daring lagoon]

it was trash

they were right noize

i will never post another poem here.

[leaden coral]

statment one

Poetry can have any structure

statement two

which is rhythemic is poetry

Statement three
there are only some things with Rhyme

Conclusion-- any structure cannot be poem

[daring lagoon]

not if its gonna cause this much contention

[wintry harbor]

was partially my fault

[daring lagoon]

shut up. i deleted the poem. you were right. it was garbage. im horrible. now stop debating.

[wintry harbor]

bro juniper wanted us to stop lol

[leaden coral]

come in dms then

[wintry harbor]

respect her wishes and leave it alone

[daring lagoon]

my friend

[wintry harbor]

no

[daring lagoon]

prose is just

the only rule

[leaden coral]

no I like your poems, but not this one

[daring lagoon]

STOP
STOP

of prose

STOP

STOP

STOP

STOP

STOP

STOp

[leaden coral]

Ok ill stop

[daring lagoon]

STOP

STOp

I didn't like it

STOP

ngl

STOP

STOP

STOP

STOP

STOp

STOP

I deleted the poem

its terrible ur right

now shut up

[daring lagoon]

we shall depart

[leaden coral]

aight

[daring lagoon]

i will never post here again

im just horrible and should kill myself