NA hyperspeed minister game.

[quick gazelle]

https://asyncti4.com/game/pbd17496

<@&1171907111110844416>

[leaden tiger]

Why are you looking yo replace?

[tight python]

https://discord.com/channels/943410040369479690/1454973406335336642
is this the same game

also yeah that's a lot of replacement in that game, is @ruby nexus being an ass

[ruby nexus]

Speed

is the issue lol

[tight python]

you're being too slow?

[uncut plank]

Im fast this week I can go for it

And not currently in a saar game so it won't break my brain

[valid haven]

no. Titans and Saar are not playing to the pre-agreed upon pace.

[valid haven]

you're good to go?

[uncut plank]

Ya put me in coach

[valid haven]

you get the invite?

[valid haven]

you interested in hopping into Titan's spot?

[midnight beacon]

Just wanna note that I literally just got flagged for doing this

Same exact reason too

[valid haven]

flagged for replacing for speed?

[midnight beacon]

Yessir

[valid haven]

We had a debacle about it last night. Cleared it up with bothelpers and cleared with both players

[midnight beacon]

Left a game because it was too slow and I got hit by several people about it

Just a bit frustrated

[valid haven]

Yeah, some of us hyperspeed players are working on a fix for this problem. Too many people claiming to play 'fast' who end up taking forever

Want to be added to the hyperspeed list?

[midnight beacon]

Look I don't disagree

No

I just want rules to be applied uniformly

If I can't politely drop from a game because it's too slow and then I see literally 2 hrs later 2 people are forcibly dropped from a game for the same exact reason I'm gonna be annoyed

Anyone gonna flag this one? Or does that only apply to me

Is the only rule whoever whines the loudest gets their way? Cause I've asked politely

And was literally reported earlier today and told that "Speed is not a reason for substitutions"

Which by the way I am perfectly fine accepting

But please for the love of God apply rules to everyone

[valid haven]

I see what you're saying, but our case is slightly different as our two slow people have agreed to be replaced.

[midnight beacon]

I also agreed to be replaced

I found a sub

[valid haven]

oh then what did they report you for exactly?

[midnight beacon]

Replacing myself

[valid haven]

and an admin is punishing you for breaking a rule?

[midnight beacon]

I don't know dude

Really could not tell you

But I'm willing to bet they are reading this right now and getting pinged

[lean grail]

How does one get on the hyperspeed list? 👀

[valid haven]

prove they can play at hyperspeed lol

[raw rose]

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-eating-popcorn-popcorn-plankton-meme-plankton-yes-gif-18251234252356731757

[lean grail]

I can have folks vouch for me, albeit I’m going to be temporarily slow since I just had a kiddo. Just was interested for fast games for getting to minister

[valid haven]

well this one is already a minister game so you'll have to rank up first

[raw rose]

I vouch though, that guys fast

[lean grail]

Yup, I’ve been around the block with the hero grind, just saw the thread and was like, I’ve done so many superfast games that devolve

[midnight beacon]

100%

[mossy hinge]

People are aware of this game but for future reference it's not because of your comment

[mossy hinge]

This is important, ya

[tight python]

I have definitely left TIGL games before because the game was too slow, this is fascinating

I maintain that no TI > slow TI

[midnight beacon]

Confused why it's not okay to peacefully replace myself for speed reasons with zero debacle (something I did with moderation in mind) but it's okay to double replace others for the same exact reason

I got pinged in under 30 mins

[mossy hinge]

I don't think it is ok, but sometimes people are offline

[midnight beacon]

Then BigAl followed up

This one has been going on since last night, I posted earlier today, and got flagged in under 30 mins

🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm not angry I just feel this is not equally applied

[mossy hinge]

If you want to spectate the game channels you can read the conversations that have already happened in that game

[midnight beacon]

No doubt

All I'm sayin is I avoided this conversation in my game and simply opted to dip, and that was deemed not ok

Also soeed

[mossy hinge]

You weren't flagged publicly, and I'm not flagging anyone publicly either - just had already pinged BigAl before I read your comment, and I wanted to clarify that this wasn't a "Lilith is getting people in trouble" situation

[twilit latch]

The replacement issue is kind of out of hands lately tbh. As people are leaving left and right these days.

Spirit of TIGL is if you join a game you should play it through if you can and only ask for replacement in very serious situations in your IRL.

Same with replacing players because they had a fallout or disagreement in the game. Just work it out with plastic if you can't over the board. And after the game never play with that guy again.

You can also as a table decide to just and the game, but then it is unfortunate waste of time of other players that they invested it in the game.

Also if you really need your dopamine levels satisfied you can always just start normal game. With players you know from TIGL. Not every game has to be TIGL marked.

We also support reporting from TTS or TTPG, so if you are looking for close to IRL speed you can play with friends over there and then just report the game.

So if you really want to achieve superfast games just play with your trusted friends. Otherwise try to complete the game. Or start another one in the meantime its asnyc. (I know this is not a solution for you Lilith, because other stuff I am not familiar with into detail, but general advice for others)

And yes, this post was brought to our attention and we are still talking about the replacement issue.

In ideal world there would be non replacement allowed, the only reason it is, is because of serious cases of IRL stuff. And it would be shame for 5 other players get their time wasted because of thst. But lately the replacement option is being abused for not serious issues.

[midnight beacon]

BigAl briefed me, and tbh I actually have had some games where it was a bummer that someone left because it changed the game dynamic, makes total sense

[valid haven]

It sounds like our situation is still being discussed so the primary question is this: If a player consents to and agrees to, before the start of a game, to be replaced if they do not keep to the agreed on pace and they then fail to meet that pacing, for no serious IRL cause, is the table allowed to replace them? Or is the player immune from replacement despite agreeing ahead of time to be replaced if they don't make pace?

[tight python]

This feels like a set up for "Superfast, pre-agree to get replaced if you take too long" games (which I'm on board with)

[warped dagger]

perhaps we add a unique game lobby tag? "Hyperspeed” or something like that which indicates that the players agree upfront to being replaced if they dont make pace?

[mossy hinge]

To clarify, we're talking about a future condition, not a current one

I don't make TIGL guidelines but I'm sure Lazik, BLT, and BigAl will be able to provide clarification

[mossy hinge]

Because idk if this is allowed or not

[valid haven]

This is what we're seeking clarification on

[signal blade]

what's the question

[twilit latch]

Yeah, for now I would say you can continue with your replacements if some criteria from the game create post were not met or if serious IRL stuff stood in the way, even though I am not a fan of replacements in TIGL at all.

Currently we are discussing what should we do and it will take some time to agree on it, as there are multiple points of view on this issue.

We would like to keep the integrity of TIGL, but we also don't want to make it hard for players to play superfast games. So we need to find the right balance and solution to this. And for that I would like to know BLT's and BigAl's opinions first.

@signal blade check this post and replies and admin tigl channel.

[valid haven]

Excited to see how it's ruled. Would love to give my viewpoint if that's possible.

[twilit latch]

Sure, we are open to it, you can share it here

[valid haven]

The biggest question/concern for allowing non-emergency replacements I can see is competitive integrity within the climbing/rankings of TIGL? That replacing someone at a post-draft time in the course of a game ruins the legitimacy of that game's result. Is that summary correct for what the deliberation is on?

[midnight pelican]

Make it a month of no replacements allowed for tigl games and people will learn to finish a game together again. Or filter for their soulmates before starting 😂

[midnight beacon]

This has happened to me-someone takes my stuff starts a fight, then I end up in an HS or something and the replacement does not carry the same energy forward and you end up in an odd situation

[still lava]

By default it's the first one, because everyone's expected to meet their commitments and resolve disagreements and failures via conversation

Specifically @quick gazelle had notably excellent behavior in the game in question

Usually the best way for us to moderate and make rules is to have a rule for what's allowed and then another rule for what's allowed with specific case by case bothelper permission

There's relatively low chance that we make a change to replacement rules for superfast tigl because players can start another superfast tigl game and because they also have the option of restricting their games to trusted addicts they've personally played with several times

[lean grail]

trusted addicts they've personally played with several times
Excellent way to describe it 😂

[still lava]

In general, it's very bad form to air your moderation grievances in public. Far better to DM an admin

[valid haven]

All of this stuff is an old issue now. This thread has moved on to a different topic of how rules should be made for future games.

[still lava]

The case of Arterial's game was pretty close to a unanimous agreement. We're very very likely to approve exceptions to server rules if the table comes to a unanimous agreement before they ask us

[still lava]

We've had recent examples give ample reason to ban or continue to ban unilateral departures from games on claimed grounds of speed and to ban or continue to ban replacement of other players without their consent unless it's been 72 hours or a bothelper is involved.

[still lava]

There are also issues related to incentivizing players not to meet their own commitments. A player exiting a game requires different moderation approaches than a player being kicked out of a game, and both have major downsides that don't always overlap

[valid haven]

To confirm you are just giving your viewpoint on how a future rule should be made correct? Or are you still speaking in reference to the game at the origin of this thread?

[still lava]

I wasn't deliberately referencing either game specifically. I was at least partially addressing the direct question about what concerns might motivate banning almost live tigl games with required pre-approval of getting replaced for being too slow

I was also partially saying that we've had problems that directly reinforce the need for these rules

We've had multiple such problems in the last seven days.

[valid haven]

Ahh okay. I got confused because you replied to a comment that was resolved by Lazik.

[still lava]

It is not allowed in TIGL or non-TIGL games to replace players after the draft unless they consent or a bothelper approves.

That is an existing rule that has not been changed.

[valid haven]

Yes. This rule isn't under question.

[valid haven]

Can you please delete then? Right now, the current topic here is how pre-permission for replacement should be handled to maintain TIGL-integrity

[mossy hinge]

I was just about to piggy back off of Ash's comment

[mossy hinge]

In my eyes, replacements for any reasons falls under this invitation

[valid haven]

Should create a different thread/channel for more broad replacement discussion

[mossy hinge]

Sure

I almost did earlier

[valid haven]

because I specifically drove this thread in the direction of pre-agreed replacement come failure to adhere to pace

[mossy hinge]

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