#Shocktrain Arc Rework

51 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sand ferry
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I posted this as a reply elsewhere, but I figured I'd make a dedicated suggestion for the, too. Right now, the shocktrain arcs can be extremely oppressive. The arc range is fairly long, so avoiding becoming vulnerable to it requires your team to stay extremely spaced out. If you don't, your team will just keep getting chipped and having their shield cooldowns reset whenever anyone nearby pokes their head out. With how many abilities require relatively close proximity, this just doesn't feel great. It's extremely powerful, and extremely annoying. Furthermore, the shocktrain user doesn't have to do anything, or even know that those enemies are present to get this extra damage. It's just free bonus damage and suppression.

I propose this: instead of the arcs being able to jump to anyone within range, I suggest changing them to only jump to a target that's both in range, and within 15 degrees or so of the angle of the original shot (or last arc). Basically, it would be like the shot pierced though the enemy, and the next enemy in line (or at least within 15 degrees of in line). This would maintain the extreme power of shocktrains, but require the user to actively position themselves in ideal angles to try to get a bunch of enemies roughly in line with each other.

Just sitting behind your front line and plinking away would still be equally good against your primary target, but you'd no longer be rewarded with a bunch of free hits against people believe cover that you may not even be aware of. Getting a bunch of crowd control damage and suppression would require to actually do something, and enemies have more options for counterplay when getting hit by it (and also are way more likely to actually be able to see and retaliate against the person they're getting hit by). Getting off to the side of the line of battle would present you with the best opportunities for multiple arcs, but also potentially put you at more risk. You know, actual risk vs. reward.

timber mango
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15 degrees? Absolutely not. I don't even like the shocktrains and I think that is too small.

sand ferry
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Some arbitrary amount to make it where it's largely traveling in a straightish line though the targets (like a piercing attack), but with enough wiggle room to not require everyone to be perfectly aligned. The idea is for shocktrain users to need to position themselves in such a way that several enemies are roughly in line with each other in order to get a lot of bounces, rather than just automatically receiving a bunch of extra damage and suppression because an enemy(s) happened to be somewhere in the vicinity of your target.

timber mango
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This is a bad idea and will remove their unique identity and usefulness. Positioning yourself like you describe isn't something that is going to happen. Instead it will just be shoot and hope the enemy lines up.

Just reduce the range of them.

icy silo
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I also disagree with a 15 degree arc. What you're describing sounds more like a kinetic piercing sniper weapon that travels through multiple targets. Maybe that can be an idea for a new weapon that has a smart bullet that ricochets at a narrow arc to enemies behind the initial target?

But shocktrains are meant to be a chain lightning type of weapon, which has a defining characteristic to bounce to the nearest enemies regardless of position as long as they're not obstructed. Instead I think it could use something like reducing the total range of the bounces (example: from 150m to 100m), or make the bounces have a progressively reducing range (example: from 150m all bounces to 150m first bounce, 100m second bounce, 50m third bounce)

lilac wave
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The bounces do half damage after each bounce, so 1/8th on 3rd bounce

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1/4th dmg on the 2nd bounce is already negligible damage

timber mango
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My main annoyance is when I'm trying to hide behind a corner to recharge my shields and I keep taking 1 damage from the 1/1024 dmg on the tenth bounce from the moon, that keeps reseting the recharge timer.

tribal dagger
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Set arc range at 65m and call it a day

lilac wave
sand ferry
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That's part of what this is trying to address- constatnly getting plinked while behind cover becasue a teammate somewhere is exposing themselves to the shocktrain user.

tribal dagger
lilac wave
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I think thats one of the main use cases for the weapon

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Its part of what makes it so unique

quick raft
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I think the angle of chain would be difficult to code to behave reliably without bugs though I like the logic behind it.

Nerfing the chain distance or making it so that only the people in range of the first target get chained, not from one to the next to the next.

lilac wave
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Nerfing its numerical performance is preferred imo, at least, preferred over nerfing its redeeming quirk

tribal dagger
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dont forget going through structures and obstacles

lilac wave
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Yeah that part would be nice to be resolved

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Bounces requiring LoS

tribal dagger
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^

quick raft
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I thought that was more of an obstacle thing as opposed to the shocktrains specifically. Is that still happening?

tribal dagger
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not the primary shot, just the chain shot can go through obstacles/terrain

lilac wave
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It occurred with all splash effects until season2

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Now its only a few niche cases that work differently to regular splash that don’t require LoS

tribal dagger
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lets not forget that shocktrains can/will hit weakest module as well

lilac wave
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Does it effect all modules equally or target the weakest one or target random?

tribal dagger
quick raft
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I just built 4 shocktrains a few days ago. I knew they were good so wanted to try them out. I built them to lvl 5-8 and now Im annoyed because arcing through walls isnt something Im willing to use now that I know that's happening. That bot is benched for the foreseeable future....

tribal dagger
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and when i mean bench, i mean not currently usable

quick raft
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Yeah, im the type of person that that thinks something is totally unfair I won't use it even if everybody else is. I'll just grit my teeth and fight that uphill battle until the fix and it makes me better at the game in the meantime while everyone else is just waiting to cry when their crutch gets kicked out from under them. (Probably why Im fine with this pursuer fix ;))

So yeah, im annoyed that the loss in intel and salvage but Im not using it even though I JUST built them. 😦

timber mango
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What if each bounce reduces the range for any subsequent bounce? For example 1st bounce 100m, 2nd bounce 50m, 3rd bounce 25m, 4th bounce 12.5m.

timber mango
timber mango
# quick raft Yeah, im the type of person that that thinks something is totally unfair I won't...

Mine are still level 1. I was excited to craft a strong crowd control weapon as a solo player.

They're good, but geez are they boring to play with. Also the hit registering can be super frustrating. You know you hit a specific module, but the shocktrains decide you missed or hit a completely different module instead. There's times where I totally missed, but got a hit anyway. It's super inconsistent.

I mostly don't use them unless I really need a crowd control bot in my hanger, so I never upgraded them. They are rare and I am too cheap with my scrap and intel to upgrade rare weapons unless I am super sure I am going to use them. 😅

lilac wave
timber mango
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They hit multiple enemies if they are crowded together. They force the enemy to try to spread out from one another or continue to take extra damage. They also lose the ability to individually recharge their shields when in a group.

The CC you're thinking of from MMOs and MOBAs, like stun, root, freeze etc. I don't get why those things are consider THE definition of crowd control now, especially in other genres. This isn't an rpg or hero sim. There aren't mobs you need to clear.

Crowd control in combat sims are generally anything that damages/debuffs/punishes enemies crowded together, causes enemies to crowd together, and/or separates enemies from a crowd.

The Alpha Titan beam is crowd control. It doesn't directly move them, but they have to move.

Harpy is crowd control. They have to avoid the pools or take damage.

Bulgasari is crowd control. They have to move or take damage.

We have some traditional moba cc in the siren freeze. But is that crowd control in the context of this game? I wouldn't call it that. It's effect doesn't really have anything to do with being against a crowd of enemies.

quick raft
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Actually if they are close enough the siren can blast multiples just like the flashbang.

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But yeah, overall I'd say the difficulty of aiming the shocktrains makes the damage when they hit totally fair, especially because repeat shots on the same module is hard to do at any distance. But I have noticed it chaining a bit far for what I was expecting and it does feel like I can screw over the enemy team with it. If I focus that, though Im not doing crazy high damage on the chain I can still keep their shields off. Often this gets me rushed and using the weapon for more than a few minutes makes my finger hurt so overall it feels mostly fair.

But I have to check and see if its really chaining through walls, if it is then I can't justify using it at all and would support the argument for a fix there.

forest apex
forest apex
timber mango
forest apex
forest apex
timber mango
forest apex
timber mango
timber mango
forest apex
icy silo
forest apex
quick raft