#Nerf shocktrains

53 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

still rose
#

The primary damage and multiple damage is too much if more than one person in a lobby run shocktrains they can hold a whole lobby down while hiding behind their team.

Currently meta in a higher end six stack is to run all shocktrains and just focus targets.

As time progress this weapon is going to be the only weapon being used in games.

Shocktrains at this point outclasses even snipers with their quicker reload charge

Let alone don’t forget the glitch that also makes them invisible (but this post is not about that).

Anyways I shouldn’t have to make a shocktrain build to combat this build.

Chaining arc also goes through buildings between teammates as well.

mellow plank
#

The single target damage is surprisingly high for a weapon focused on group damage. It really feels like the chain damage is more of an add-on rather than the primary feature.

still rose
#

^^^^^

minor jungle
#

I don't believe the damage is as much of the issue as the range you can shoot it from. If they limited it to say 300m, that would be better. Maybe raise the energy usage too?

still rose
gray bison
# still rose The primary damage and multiple damage is too much if more than one person in a ...

True it’s high damage for a crowd control weapon, but it also creates an incentive to spread out more.

It’s never going to be the only weapon used because there are other weapons that are also very strong and other builds that work well.

Snipers work better at longer ranges, so that’s where they outclass shocktrain.

I hope the glitch gets fixed soon.

You don’t have to. Try a halo phantom build with repulsor. You can just fly in, take out the shocktrain and tp back.

Still think it should be nerfed tho, although maybe in a more interesting way than just a decrease in damage, for example it could be reworked to it loses the charge if you hold it too long.

still rose
#

And no the primary damage is too much when it’s a weapon focused on a group setting.

native canopy
#

I think the main issue is their range and low weight/energy.

When I use them, I keep my distance and can easier escape danger. For their effect in team fights, they should be shorter range so I actually have to be in the team fight. These shouldn't be a sniper-lite with bonus damage.

They should be higher weight or energy so you can't use any amount and still be mobile.

The damage seems fine, it's just too easy and safe to deal that damage.

untold oar
#

They're not that powerful because of the time between shots. Kill time is low and the spread damage spread out so it's not very good. It's only good for popping shields. If a team is focusing fire, good for them. I wish my teams would do it more.

steep pine
#

After the repeated nurfs to shock trains they feel balanced enough for the moment.

simple flame
#

Their main thing is that they level EXTREMELY well since every level adds like 100 damage to armor or shields. After looking at this recent batch of patch notes they adjusted magneto and gozers (which also had extremely good leveling stats) to be more in line with other weapons. Hopefully shocktrains are on the same list and are being worked on for next weeks update

native canopy
grave lintel
#

Time between shots keeps this weapon firmly in the "Balanced" category. They are frustrating when I see them hitting but I just make adjustments and try to set them up to die. Yes it hits hard, but if you rush someone with shock trains there isnt a lot they can do if you come in with a plan.

Ive seen them be devastating, like any weapon, when used in a coordinated fashion with team support. That doesn't mean the weapon is too strong, it means those players are good. Teamwork gets wins WAYYYYYY more than individual badasses in this game. The people that I have better coordination with are able to talk it out and come up with a counter plan for different formations/compositions the enemy runs. Thats the game at its most fun tbh.

shrewd mango
#

LOL

I think I'm going to level quantums next so people can beg for them to be nerfed since "they're the best weapon in the game"

plush bobcat
#

The real problem is people always ask for weapons to be Nerf when they run up against a level 12 weapon and they only have level two weapons. Yes there’s going to be an obvious difference between their weapon weapons and your weapons.

But I also agree with killjoy, not all weapons need to be balanced with the same type of damage or same amount of damage that defeats the purpose of having different kinds of weapons a weapon that takes more skill to fire and utilize should obviously do more damage.

native canopy
native canopy
# grave lintel Time between shots keeps this weapon firmly in the "Balanced" category. They are...

When I was low level and first encountered them, they seemed OP (tbh they did have all the beneficial bugs at the time). Once I got high enough level to craft them (post bug fix), they didn't seem OP. They were good and crowd control, and honestly, kind of boring to use. They allow you to play extremely safe.

I think the thing they could adjust about it is the range, but not by a huge amount. Usually in PvP games, extremely safe weapons don't have as high of dps as the shocktrains do. Meanwhile, us Trident users are over here in a slow as mech with a calculator and protractor taped to the screen trying to arc our shots for only half the dps.

tender temple
#

Honestly my main gripe with the shocktrains is the range of the secondary arcs. The weapon is definitely very powerful when upgraded, but the amount of bonus damage and shield suppression those arcs provide for literally 0 extra effort is pretty insane. You can be quite far from the initial target, and still get blasted when it chains though a bunch of allies. It's brutal when your team is relatively spaced out and behind various different points of cover, but as soon as anyone pokes their head out to do anything, everyone gets zapped by someone they can't even see. It's pretty oppressive, punishes working together as a group, and just feels cheesy. I'd much prefer if either:

a) the arc distance were lowered a decent amount. Have it punish players that are stacked right on top of each other, rather than in the same zip code. This would require the shocktrain user to potential expose themselves to a bunch of enemies at once, adding significant risk to the significant reward.

b) have the arc distance lowered some, remove the ability for it to chain through targets, but have it hit everyone that's within that shorter distance of your initial target. Similar premise to option a; you can do a lot of damage to people clustered behind the same piece of cover / in the same Tyr heal, but you likely have to expose yourself to that whole crew to do so. High risk, high reward.

c) (my favorite) Leave the arc behavior as it is, but make it only capable of arcing to an enemy within a geometric arc 15 degrees or so of the angle it came in from. You'd still be able to blast a large number of targets, but they'd all need to be roughly in line with each other to hit them. I think this is the most interesting solution. The weapon would still have great suppression ability, but would require the user to position themselves such that the enemies are roughly lined up with their shot to get a bunch of hits.

#

This would change the shocktrains to reward you heavily for getting into a flanking position off to the side of the line of battle, to get your shots to jump though a whole bunch of enemies hiding behind cover at roughly the same distance from your team. You could still fight from behind your team's battle line, but you'd mostly only able to get single targets from that angle. To get the really juicy shots, you need to have clever, and importantly, riskier positioning. The arcs would then be a reward for good positioning, rather than just free bonus damage for enemies being in the same tri-state area as each other. Shocktrains would be the flanker / scout type "sniper", and the other sniper weapons would continue to have dominance in the safer, back line role. Gives the weapon a more distinct personality, with a better risk vs. reward balance. The restriction on the arc angle would make getting hit by it feel a lot less cheesy, and instead make it feel like the guy just got better positioning over you and your team. You'd also generally be able to see and retaliate against the guy, since they'd have to be roughly in line with you. Better experience for both the user, and the victim.

grave lintel
#

All great ideas on their own. The devs are getting better at taking baby steps with nerfs.

Vortex/Noricum nerf made them unusable. It was overkill.

But the gozers and magnetos, I can see 10% overall dam decrease being fair since they were the most used weapons and with a whopping 10% of damage in the last level alone they were an absolute menace upon new players that are weeks of dedicated playing away from being able to use maxed out gozers or magnetos. It left a "I guess I'll just die until I die enough to get upgraded" taste in the mouth.

The pursuer, a lot of us wanted it to go straight to cooldown, but they only made it like a 2-3 second reveal, making it still possible to run up invis, assassinate someone while vis, and get invis again for a few secondwhile making the getaway. A highly skilled player can still ambush effectively, so they didnt totally kill the torso.

I really like where their heads are at in regards to having that slightly lighter touch when it comes to nerfs/buffs. Its the best way to reach an almost entirely balanced game.

still rose
#

They been doing great!

still rose
grave lintel
#

Yotty I just realized you were the OP on this. You are easily one of the top shocktrainers in the game, most people yell "F**k! OK, stay focused and watch out for those shocktrains, Yotty's here."

So if YOU think its too strong, I just dont see how we can really argue lmao

native canopy
tender temple
#

Yeah, it can be extremely frustrating.

still rose
grave lintel
still rose
tall robin
#

They already got nerfed, or at least it feels like it to me, cause it feels like they do wayyyy less damage than they used to

#

Half the time I shoot somebody the shock train, It doesn’t even register as a hit so it seems pretty fair to me.

olive socket
still rose
grave lintel
#

I must have been mistaken, but rather the crew you typically roll with tends to have a shocktrain in it.

weak jungle
#

Man, why shocktrain hate :(

still rose
wild schooner
#

I do not think its shocktrain that is the issue. its the 5x shocktrains that are. The pursuer needs 1 extra weight on it to make 5x builds not possible or harder to use.

#

Shocktrains are not hard to deal with. Invisible 5x with invisible weapons are, but that bug is fixed now with the pursuer nerf.

quartz musk
#

Id argue 4x Shocktrain Varangian is much more oppressive.

still rose
#

what it really comes down to is 1 the primary damage is super high to have a multi hit proc. the weapon is more focused on "group hits" opposed to single hit. which it excels in both.

the arc chain is way to big and needs to come down.

in my opinion it should be more of a support weapon then a standalone unit. with the primary damage as it sits. its a standalone unit. now match that with 3-4 competent users and its super oppressive.

although i do agree the bubble boy shocktrain build is super oppressive. its mainly because your primary damage is super high,

remember this was intended for a multi hit weapon.

#

or i can even see it being nerfed on armor damage side and leaving shield damage alone with a shorter arc range

uneven horizon
#

Tbh they should remove the chain damage and just make it a single hit target

still rose
grave lintel
#

Rather reduce main damage and keep chain the same, OR keep damage same and reduce chain distance. I could see these being potentially fair but eliminating the chain entirely just makes it a garbage shorter range sniper bot that is far outdone by zues/treb.

still rose
torpid flame
#

I would say tweak something with how it chains because that is for sure the most annoying part of shocktrains

#

I like frenotx's third idea for how to change the chaining a lot tbh but a chain range nerf would also work I think

#

but it should be like a 50% chain range decrease because it's ridiculous right now

tender temple
#

If the chain could only travel in a roughly straight line relative to the angle it was fired at (again, maybe only a 15 degree arc that the next enemy can be in), its range could probably just stay as is. That already limits the chances of getting one or multiple bounces considerably, and people just have to move out of line to avoid it, rather than needing to be extremely spaced out in general.

torpid flame
#

yeah sorry I meant if it got a chain range nerf it should be like 50% I didn't mean it should get its chain range nerfed along with your idea

still rose
#

That’s awesome ^^

native canopy