QA tester version of the game

[dry fjord]

I'm putting this in bug reports, instead of feedback, because this pertains to bug reporting.

It has come to my attention that people have difficulty investigating, replicating, and documenting bugs in the game, while having to also play in a match, and not ruin the match for other players.

To properly QA test the game, please provide us with a "QA test" version of the game, similar to the beta tests versions. This would allow people to better investigate issues in the game, without affecting the other players in the match.

Maps should be able to be played with bots, by yourself, with people you invited, etc. We also need debug mode, so we can test things like checking collision models and hitboxes, frame drops, crash reports, etc. The more tools people have to QA test the game, the better bug reports you'll be able to receive.

Also, similar to beta tests, everything should be unlocked, and free to upgrade, so infinite salvage and intel, or everything costs 0, so that every single robot module and weapon can be properly tested at every upgrade level.

[south onyx]

One thing to note, if this is given to PC players but not console, it would amount to flat out abuse of console players, as PC players would have a playground to practice formations with coordinated movements and timed ability activations and the win rate of PC against console would somehow become even more one sided than it already is.

[dry fjord]

Well unfortunately, there are only beta tests for PC players too. There are very rarely console tests with debug access.

Most games have PC only test environments, because consoles charge to upload their games to their services. My.games has their own version of the game, so they don't even need Steam to have the game on PC

[south onyx]

I do agree, this is needed in general. But if it allows for inviting other players in to the same lobby, it would be a flat out evil thing to do to unless it was also rolled out to console. Since that is extremely unlikely to happen, I see no reason the bug finding/reporting function can't be achieved in solo play.

By the way, how do you have your league badge by your name? Old to gaming, rather new to discord lol.

[dry fjord]

It can't be achieved in solo play, because if for example you need to test if a weapon is shooting someone through a wall, then you need a friend to shoot you through that wall. If a gear is not affecting you, your, teammates, or your enemies correctly, you need someone else to help you test that synergy and calculate damage numbers.

[south onyx]

Since its a test environment, could you not just place an inactive bot there using tools?

[dry fjord]

Channels and Roles channel at the top of the Discord channels

[dry fjord]

Maybe, but it's still far easier with two people using debug mode

You can both test things from your own ends

I've beta tested and QA tested dozens of games in the last 15 years, and while I've only done 2D game dev myself, I still have a general idea of how things should work.

[south onyx]

As far as testing damage properly when using different gears in combo with each other, ive been asking for the ability to invite other players to the shooting range for some time, which would fulfill that role

And could be implemented on console and PC easily.

[dry fjord]

Yeah that would be nice too. Having a debug menu in the testing area would also be nice. I'm not against having some features available to the live version, as long as it doesn't lead to a hacker using it in the live game, like seeing through walls, everything costs 0 intel and salvage, etc. It's always safest to have these tools in a separate environment. More could be done for the test area in the live game. I would love to be able to invite people to the testing area and they can choose to be a teammate or enemy. That would certainly help a lot. Just not for things like testing maps. There is no matchmaking. If they had matchmaking to 1v1 someone like Halo or whatever, then people could more easily test maps without ruining matches for other players.

We can't even choose the game mode or map, so it's super hard to test with that RNG. The more tools to properly QA test, and submit bug reports, the better.

If they end up also officially adding custom matchmaking that doesn't reward players after each match, that would also be awesome.

[near bramble]

1-Sided? You guys get aimbot

[dry fjord]

As someone with both Xbox S and PC, aim assist on controller honestly makes it harder to aim, depending on the weapon. Things like magnetos especially, because it tries to aim where it thinks the enemy is going, so you're usually missing shots if they're far enough away that the prediction is wrong. It also makes it harder to focus on the module you actually want to shoot at, depending if you use weak or strong assist.

In combat, the ttk is a bit slower than with a mouse, since with a mouse, I can aim specifically at the module that I want to shoot at

[near bramble]

I see

[south onyx]

And it hardly does anything to compensate for the overwhelming advantage of having mouse and keyboard.

Lets take opinions out of it and chart the matches that have 3 or more pc on one side and all console on the other. If you have a point the numbers will show it. But if PC teams have a much higher win rate, then I'm indisputably correct.

[south onyx]

Magnetos are entirely unusable with the aim assist, and they're currently the best weapon.

[near bramble]

They are?

[scenic wagon]

They suck horribly with strong aim assist. They are sucky with minor aim assist. Without aim assist they smack like a freight train.

[storm portal]

What exactly is that overwhelming advantage of having a keyboard? Also just looking at win rate doesn’t prove anything, as there are too many other factors involved like experience, player count on both platforms, playtime for certain experienced players and in-game sertings.

[storm portal]

I have 2 magneto builds and I play console. For me it works very well. I get if u say the aim assist aims at the wrong place but you can also adjust your aim. For magnetos on console there is one tip tho: try to aim for the torso, as it has a higher likelihood of hitting even when the enemy accelerates or decelerates.

[south onyx]

An overly lopsided win rate when viewing controlled demographics means literally everything.

Mouse is insanely easier to aim with and you can move, use all gear, confirm all gear, etc. etc. all while still maintaining perfect control over aiming. Im great with the magnetos on console. Lots of kills with them. I dont use the aim assist because it messes up high skill playstyles. If I was on PC I'd have way more.

Im not going to waste any more of my energy convincing people that don't want to learn when I already know Im right. But if you ask any hard-core gamer who's played any shooting game extensively both with crossplay on using console and PC and they will tell you the same. Their performance level increases when on PC.

It's crazy to me that people still debate this when pro/hard-core players have long since closed the book on this.

[dry fjord]

Idk if every mouse is supported, but you have been able to use a mouse and keyboard on consoles since PS2. I've used them for Halo MCC and Infinite on Xbox One. You can use a mouse on console if you would rather do that. Some gaming mice though require downloading software to map the extra buttons and macros, which may not be available on console, so you'd have to look into what mice do work best on consoles.

People use controllers on PC too, so it's not really a PC vs Console debate. It's a controller or kbm PREFERENCE. Nothing is really preventing anyone from using either one

I personally actually like using a controller in my left hand, and a mouse in my right hand, because I hate moving on a keyboard and I hate aiming with a stick. Unfortunately not every game supports mixed input

Controller and kbm debate is over 20 years old. It's honestly time for people to just use any 3rd party option, since there are dozens of other ways to play games. Some are better, some are worse. Some people play racing games with a wheel. Some play Mechwarrior with a HOTAS. Some play Ace Combat with a flight stick.

[scenic wagon]

Sounds like your would love joystick and mouse.

Hell, dual joysticks with button inputs on sticks would be wonderful.

[dry fjord]

I wish War Robots Frontiers had first person camera and Thrustmaster HOTAS support

Probably would be fun to use

[scenic wagon]

Left stick for movement, run and jump. Right for weapons and equipment use.

[dry fjord]

Don't forget hardcore Armored Core players play with the controller backwards too. Lots of ways to play games other than arguing about if keyboard or controller is better for 20 years

[scenic wagon]

Keyboard has 1 huge advantage and thats the number of inputs that can be mapped.

[dry fjord]

True, but there are not that many controls in WRF unless you count the ping wheel

It's not an MMO with tons of controls

[scenic wagon]

The pingwheel in this game and other games are a bit annoying.

[dry fjord]

It's arguably annoying in DOOM for some people. Not a huge fan of wheels, but it's whatever

[scenic wagon]

Mouse allows for easier control of aiming for some shooters as well. Like call of duty, but it's not nearly as noticeable on wrf.

Full wrist and arm movement goes into mouse inputs, thumb movement is good but also limited in some aspects by comparison.

[dry fjord]

Controller aiming has always sucked. That's why when Halo got Xbox exclusivity and had to be ported from PC build to Xbox, all enemies and players had to move much slower. Halo could no longer compete with fast paced boomer shooters like Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc. Sprint was in Halo CE and Halo 2 code, but never implemented because it sucks to aim at. Luckily controllers got better and aim assist got better, so games got faster, but nothing compares to mouse, except touch screen and track pad.

[scenic wagon]

You could also argue for joysticks that use full arm input.

[dry fjord]

VR might be the only thing better than controller or keyboard and mouse

[scenic wagon]

Or the steering wheel and pedal combo for racing games.

[south onyx]

There's no argument.... the data from every cross console shooter makes it clear there's no debate. Mouse and key is best for shooters. The faster paced the game the bigger the advantage.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about that side topic, I still agree with the original idea of a testing environment for those that want to volunteer their time to help the devs zero in on bugs and fix them. Though, multi-player testing grounds would give PC players an advantage (regardless of anything else) that would allow them to use the space to coordinate team plays and practice complex group attack maneuvers. Im open to discussing potential solutions for that problem but if you want to discuss whether or not it should matter we would both just be talking to a wall.