Take flamethrowers out of the game.

[cinder vessel]

is going to get stomped over and over because they play for themsevles

[golden heron]

RAMPAGE is like rank 70

[odd marten]

"Teamwork" in a game with 1000 active PC players and rooms full of bots.

Sure. Right. Let me coordinate with SkyNet

[vale kraken]

You know what they need to Nerf for sure?

Flamethrows are already so good why do they need this?

It either needs to get Nerf significantly or they need to make it exclude flamethrower damage

[cerulean star]

If the game would be balanced arround the comp players it would end up like league of legends.
Where people get upset about 2% damage nerfs to one of their abilities, and trust me that’s a rabbit hole no one wants to get into.

Balancing for the biggest part of the player base is beneficial both for the developers cus they earn more money from happy customers and for the customers, cus more people are gonna be low rank than high rank, especially this early in this games life span. Tho that might change over the years,

[gaunt spindle]

about the heavy flamethrowers they are not as bad as the light ones the light flamethrowers kill you faster than the heavy ones and the heavy flamethrowers have a slower projectile speed

[frank herald]

moar n moar!

[red forge]

no

[unique bloom]

The damage should not be applied as a constant except on shield (and low at that), upon hitting armor, it starts low but ramps up over time (5 seconds to reach full damage).

Also applies “heated” to parts, which is what allows for the ramp up of damage.
“HEATED” would have 5 stages, each stage from each consecutive second of fire damage. Each stage persists for 3 seconds before cooling and going to the prior stage.

Each stage of “Heated” increases ballistic, fire, and blast damage by 10%.

[hybrid grove]

Flamethrower is soo insanely overpowered, it’s actually stupid the dev’s have not reacted to it.
The yolo bot that will often kill 4 bots around it, while being shot at is just soo stupidly unbalanced.
It literally ruins the game. God i hope the dev’s wake up soon.
In the hands of a skilled player it just gets worse.

Reload should be doubled and damage halfed just to bring it inline with other weapons in the game.

[charred ferry]

That would make them useless

[hybrid grove]

No other weapon can yolo in kill multiple bots in seconds, teleport out, rinse and repeat.
So no it would bring the weapon down to the level of the other weapons.
It needs a VERY substantial nerf.

All of this while only having 3 weapons equiped?!??!?

[charred ferry]

Just stay out of range why does nobody understand how flames work

Incinerator dot needs nerfing, everything else about flames is fine

[true kindle]

Lighters are not a problem. I do agree the DOT on incinerator is a bit high. That thing can vaporize.

Lighters are no issue though. I am currently in Emerald at level 65 and there are so many counters. Having situational awareness and not letting a flanker creep up to you within 100m is priority.

You have a team of 6 communicate and ask for assistance and any bot with flamethrowers would be melted.

You can use Fenrir, you can drop a turret and book it around a corner, you can drop a napalm, you can conserve a bar of energy to jump out of range, you can use stealth to mitigate ttk, you can literally jump right above a flanker and shoot down, prey on the incredibly large reload, lure to team, punishers can melt a flanker aiming at weaker modules like shoulders. Heck even the FREE cyclops torso will melt any flanker.

There are so many counters that people refuse to try and will just cry nerf instead of actually getting better.

Blame the game or blame the player? And insulting someone on a feedback post quite literally shows your own lack of maturity. You can project your frustration and insecurities or you can debate with actual integrity. Only one of those options reflect well on you.

[safe sage]

you do realise, lighters can only kill multiple bots quickly if they're already had their shields destroyed and recieved module damage already

which then completely destroys your point because then you could do that with other weapons

[safe sage]

only issue with this is that the turret seems awkward to use

sometimes doesnt attack enemies (in the simulation at least)

[hybrid grove]

The actual point here is that 99% of all flamethrower players yolo in kill multiple bots and still survive.
Dont pretend like its never happened to you or that you dont abuse this mechanic yourself.

Running 5 autocannons against a flamer will still lose against a 3 * flamer.

There is a reason this thread has this many replies. The community are sick and tired of the overpowered flamers.

The weapon needs to be severely balanced!

End of story,

[safe sage]

you say that yet there are only 39 upvotes

while there are also 25 no reactions

lighters are fine

incinerator's DOT needs changed

also if you're running 5 punishers you will most likely kill flanker thats currently trying to cook you alive

if you're actually hitting your shots

[hybrid grove]

Im talking g from many hours of experience. This is still happening now, flamers tuin the game in current state

[safe sage]

flamers are hardly ruining the game right now

there are so many other things wrong with this game right now

[hybrid grove]

Wrong!
Flammers are the biggest issue impacting the game right now, EVERY single game.

[safe sage]

no? no they arent???

[hybrid grove]

Just stop

[safe sage]

if you genuinely think that flamers are the biggest problem with this game

that is a you issue

[hybrid grove]

Though i do like you are keeping this thread alive for devs to notice

[safe sage]

the one and only time I get annoyed by dying to a flamer is when its 3 incinerators on a heavy mech and I die to DOT

[hybrid grove]

1000+ replies to this thred says the community is very concerned about this issue.

.

[safe sage]

acting as if every message is saying that they need removed

[hybrid grove]

Ok lets just go with 50% or even 40%. Thats still 4-500 unhappy messages. Most likley its 70%

[safe sage]

and there's not even a tenth of the server population in here complaining

so I wouldnt go as far as to say its the biggest problem of the game

[hybrid grove]

But enough to make a change, compared to the other feedback threads.

[safe sage]

there is 0 guarantee that this thread will make a change

especially not your idea

doubling the reload and halfing the damage literally makes them unusable

[red forge]

flame is basically melee

if u stick with ur team and be aware its easy to counter against

use griffin

[safe sage]

yeah like

flame punishes stragglers

which is the entire point of flankers

[stark field]

People sitting in spawn with artillery or missiles is the biggest problem, not flames.
Flamers need more tuning yes, but they're not the main reason why people are quitting the game. And by far are not enough of a problem to remove them from the game just because you don't like them

Imo they need to lengthen the buildup time for the incinerator DOT, maybe change incinerator damage to be moreso just the DOT damage instead of it being both initial damage and DOT damage, reduce just incinerator range to be the same as lighters, then tweak the stats of both flamethrowers to be similar to the scourge.

[charred ferry]

Wrong because people don't understand how flames work

And at that point I'm ready to pull the skill issue card

[vale kraken]

The excuse of just don't get close is really stupid.

Most flamethrower users are running the invisibility torso with triple light flamethrower and they just yolo you and you die and then they run away and live and do it again.

Or on the off chance they do die they just spawn back in in one of their four other identical units.

Don't Go near them you say okay?

So I guess I'll never push objectives in warp rush because they just full send the caps so there's no point there.

And on Team deathmatch they can respond so that YOLO harder than usual into your spawn so got it can't stay away from them there either

And didn't last robot standing is about the only place they can't you'll rush you and get away with it so I guess the whole team will just sit and spawn and camp together.

Saying stay away from the flamethrower unit is funny because you don't always know where the flamethrower unit is it's small fits behind lots of buildings usually has multiple seconds of invisibility and is faster than most Mechs so can outrun you on a chase.

[safe sage]

If you somehow die in spawn, with 90% reduced damage and 50% more damage, that is on you

[vale kraken]

Nobody ever said anything about during spawn protection you're just putting words in my mouth and saying skill issue 🤣

[safe sage]

You literally mentioned them pushing into your spawn.

[vale kraken]

Yes on our side of the map not being killed the moment I spawn in.

You know someone can be on your 1/3 of the map and not be killing you the moment you spawn both things can be true

¿

You just made an assumption that's all

Which it's fine to make assumptions but don't attach skill issue to the end of your assumption sentence

[safe sage]

Spawn isn't 1/3 of the map

Also the fact is, flamethrowers have hardly any range, other than the incinerator, of course they should be able to kill you quickly, it's a high risk high reward play style

Pursuers you can still hit when invisible, they also produce a distortion effect when invisible so you can still somewhat see it

Phantom if it Yolo's you from a certain direction and teleports away well you know where he's gone

He also keeps the damage he takes

The only real issue with flamethrowers right now is the incinerator's damage over time effect

But they still should not just be removed from the game because a select few individuals struggle to deal with them

[vale kraken]

I don't think flamethrowers need to be removed from the game I just think they need a balance adjustment.

Light flamethrower does way too much damage way fast it either needs the damage ramp to be slower or the shield damage to be reduced significantly.

And the heavy flamethrower everything honestly is fine about it except for how long you're burning for after the fact like you be burning for 9 years after you disengage

[fickle lake]

Are you stupid? theres "spawn mid and spawn" so there's 2/3rds of the map that are spawn

[vale kraken]

I don't think 9k burn damage is an issue as long as it's only happening for a second or two after disengage not for like six seven plus bloody seconds

Also on warp rush there is no spawn protection if you don't spawn at the back of the map

If you spawn at your back two caps you could most certainly get rocked

[fickle lake]

well more accurately its 2/5ths because mid is much bigger

[vale kraken]

We have some weapons that do disgusting damage but only to armor or only to shield not to both.

Pulsar does disgusting shield damage but once The shield is gone it does like nothing to armor.

Rampart does really strong armor damage but it takes a while to burn through shield.

But light flamethrower just says BRRTT and flies through your shield at Mach 11 then Burns you for all of your HP at the same speed

If they made it so it didn't burn through shield as easily people would either need to take an alternate weapon as support to burn the shield like other weapon classes have to or rely on more teamwork.

[safe sage]

It's not a flat 2/5ths

[vale kraken]

I think that would probably help with the light flame problem

[safe sage]

The spawns go in a C shape

Unless it's warp rush

But that's it's own problem

[fickle lake]

i never said it was a "flat 2/5ths" i said its closeish

[safe sage]

You're forgetting the fact that lighters almost always have to mag dump to kill something unless it's already half dead

That's why it feels so bad cause half the time when you're in battle you're not fully focusing on your HP in the middle of a gunfight

But if the lighters got nerfed there'd be no reason to use them over scourges

[vale kraken]

They magged up so fast and reload so fast what does it matter?

Okay they have to mag dump to kill someone? It's still a fast mag dump

[safe sage]

Like he's scourges have less range and a longer reload, but they can also get multiple kills in a single mag

[fickle lake]

they're already nerfed...

[vale kraken]

I'm not saying to Nerf their armor damage they can still kill just as fast if you reduce shield damage ramp

[safe sage]

Another nerf I mean

[vale kraken]

They just can't do it without either team support or another weapon

Why do they need to be able to deal with anyone in a 1V1 for every scenario?

We already have this shield system in the game which works great at helping balance other weapons why not have it help balance flamethrowers?

[fickle lake]

what is it with you people?...

[safe sage]

They aren't guaranteed to win a 1v1 in every scenario, especially if the opponent their fighting is still at full hp and not using a light build

[fickle lake]

flamethrowers are fine now

[safe sage]

You people?

[vale kraken]

And it doesn't need to be a NERF, you can always make it a shift?

You could even make the armor damage higher or the ramp faster to make them kill even quicker without shield

And reduce their shield damage so that it's not relevant. That way it gets a damage buff and kills people really fast when they have no shield but makes the very very clear counter if you don't want to die to flamethrowers make sure you manage Shields

That wouldn't be a NERF that would be a SHIFT

[safe sage]

Yeah I know

I'm not saying it needs nerfed

Like????

[vale kraken]

You guys love throwing the Nerf word around but it's not the only way to balance things

[fickle lake]

uh huh

[safe sage]

I'm literally saying if it got nerfed again there'd be no point using it over scourges

Can you read please

[safe sage]

Like dude.

[vale kraken]

A shift is not a Nerf

[safe sage]

Yeah asking for a shift is fine

[fickle lake]

you cant type it after and say you said that before i said something

[safe sage]

What???

[vale kraken]

Omg go get a bedroom in DM's or something

🤣

[safe sage]

Only flamethrower that needs nerfed is the incinerator, cause the DoT hits max ramp up within a second

[vale kraken]

I don't think the dot damage or the ramp up for the incinerator is the problem I think it's how long the burn ticks for after you disengage

You want to hit for 9k+ a tick while we're fighting okay, I just don't like how I get hit for that much for 5 plus seconds after we stop fighting

That's a problem

[safe sage]

The DoT should not hit max ramp up within a second

Cause it literally just requires a tap

[vale kraken]

But that's the only thing incinerator is good for?

The light flamethrower is for a really fast damage and the incinerator is all about the higher DOT

[safe sage]

And every part is effected

[vale kraken]

Incinerator also has a slower fire rate than the light flamethrower so it takes you longer to get your whole clip off

[safe sage]

The incinerator also has more range than the lighter

[vale kraken]

Not by very much

And in most scenarios you're not fighting at maximum incinerator range

And either way your solution or my solution to the exact same thing

If it takes longer to ramp up to Max but they don't change how long the dot applies for after the fight ends you're still taking about the same amount of damage because instead of taking dot time after the fight ends off of the back end you're just taking it off of the front end.

And with my solution you're not taking it off the front end you're taking it off the back end

But either change will do the same thing

The only difference is one will change it at the beginning of the fight and one will change it at the end

But I'll be honest with you it won't do anything at the beginning because people that are running a heavy incinerator are also running at least two lights if not three.

And the dot damage is only really useful at the end of a fight. Where it's burning afterwards.

The incinerator does nothing at the beginning of a fight because the light flam towers just chunk you & you die

[safe sage]

dont think you can actually run 3 lighters and an incinerator

at least I havent seen any yet

[hybrid grove]

No other flanker weapon (or any other weapon for that matter) in the game has this much damage. They need rebalancing. Saying anything different is just ignorance.

[unique bloom]

Precisely, the closest comparison would be the laser sword of the Grim Titan.

[lost dew]

No other flanker weapon consumes 11 energy, the main issue with scourges is the fact that they don't allow to make full use out of the energy cap of a flanker's chassis. If by "rebalancing" you mean to also lower their energy demand then flankers would need a substitute, a weapon that does the job a flamethrower does already.

lighter, had to specify even though it is the only flanker flamethrower

[hybrid grove]

Damage input is still too high. That is undeniable

[lost dew]

The scourge is a better option when less energy is available, 3 scourges dps > 2 lighters dps. 3 scourges consumption = 9 weight, 21 energy. 2 lighers consumption = 6 weight, 22 energy.

[charred ferry]

Denied

[hybrid grove]

More than 1100 replies to this thread says otherwise. I’m no betting man, but i.d put money on an upcoming nerf.

[charred ferry]

Wrong, it's very mixed
And yeah there's a dot nerf coming, lighters however, do not need another nerf

[lost dew]

1100 replies both coming from the ones who wish for the nerf and the opposition

To know the general opinion on flamethrowers you should watch the votes. Only some people seem to have both voted no and thumbs down so it looks like opinions are pretty split among the community.

[hybrid grove]

Like i said before lets just say 50/50. compare that to ANY other thread and you will see the community is in uproar about this weapon. Mark my words.. a change IS coming

[lost dew]

but not a straight nerf or removal of the weapon

[hybrid grove]

Likley a straight nerf..

[lost dew]

Let's assume lighters are going to get nerfed. Flankers are going to switch to tankier, scourge builds that are going to be dependant on movement gear to close in and get into effective range. Flankers are going to keep the same advantage in 1v1s where they manage to play as they're intended. A flanker's effectiveness is then going to be dependent on the supply gear's level and the game is going to be labeled as pay to win by flanker mains.

After that maybe there is going to be someone who is going to ask for a scourge nerf, why? Because they don't like when a flanker does what it's supposed to do, that is the real origin of the discussion.

[fickle lake]

Probably because it’s a heavy weapon

[safe sage]

Yes I know, I meant its also better than the incinerator at damaging people that are further awayy

[safe sage]

dont bother with him,not the first time he's twisted the amount of replies in this thread to suit his opinion

[safe sage]

the community isnt in uproar

just because a small fraction of the community wants the flamethrowers nerfed/removed doesnt mean its in uproar

[gentle tundra]

flamers builds almost always get traded for what there worth anyways

If your team fails to eliminate flamers whenever it’s solo/group play then idk what to tell you

Your limited on range and forced to get close

[hybrid grove]

Sigh another day with these so called “ balanced” flankers that need no attention what so ever…

It’s getting soo silly. Lighters dont even bother flanking that’s the funny part, they just push head on like assault, except they deal damage equivalent to Titan skills.
Its a weapon that almost guarantees a kill. If you want someone dead there is nothing the team can do about it 90% of the time.

WAKE UP DEV’s!!!!

[red forge]

keep distance

[safe sage]

wow, the close range weapon turns out to be really deadly in its natural habitat? who woulda possibly thunk.

[charred ferry]

K e e p d i s t a n c e

[cerulean star]

I think flamethrowers are fine. But dam some of you guys get angry quickly.
So cus you can technically keep distance a weapon that oneshots any robot it is fine if it say only had say 50m range? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. Keep distance is a way to combat the weapon. Damage should still be considered.

Think about what you say. O.o
Yes the flamethrowers used to be ungodly overpowered. They’re still insanely good but calling them overpowered still after the nerfs is weird too.
If melee weapons didn’t kill faster than say punishers there is no reason to engage in melee or close range combat at all.
Weapons with more range (more safety) should deal less damage than weapons with low range like flamethrowers cus the risk for being killed with flamethrowers without dealing damage is higher.

I don’t think they need future nerfs. They’re okay. But they at the moment are great weapons and some of the stronger choices in melee combat. Which is fine, there will always be a group of weapons better than others in its range class..

(I think scourge is insane and buggy atm but that’s a different debate)

Long text today 🫂

[hybrid grove]

The problem is it’s not possible to keep distance from the fastest mech in the game.
The weapon enables yolo play that guarantees a kill. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Even in a 3 v1 situation the lighters will still confirm the kill, and somtime kill all 3 in the current state.
It happens pretty much every single game. No other weapon enables this, a pure sign of imbalance.

So the combination of fastest mech and such high damage is literally killing the game. The only way to fix this issue is further reducing the damage.

Most flamers run stealth or teleport.
If they run stealth, they are in your face and no matter what you do it’s a garanteed win.

Teleport allows for abushes with absolute insane damage within just a few seconds. Teleport back rinse and repeat. Again the damage output is just too high.

Without an actual counter for such tactics, it just kills teamplay as countering is not possible.

Lighters ARE broken!

[cerulean star]

Lvl 1 Noricums x3 one clip robots if they don’t see the barrage coming and dodge. And that on a global range. On a 5 Sec cooldown.
I don’t think flametrowers are the issue atm.

[hybrid grove]

This thread has nothing to do with noricums

[cerulean star]

You act like they’re the worst thing in the game. They litterally just got a range nerf.

And if your team would use said throwers as well then I don’t see a 1 v 3 getting kills happening ever. Maybe if your entire team was playing sniper weapons maybe. But not with decent close quarter gear

[red forge]

lighter are not broken

[hybrid grove]

Dude it literally happens every game. Dont tell me you dont get me with yolo flamers every god damn game?

[red forge]

still lighter are not broken

they are melee

powerful at cqc

its obv is

you have to get close to enemy to do damages

u could get a squad

[cerulean star]

I do. Cus I play medium range setups.
I deserve to die to close range weapons when I make the mistake to not run away

[hybrid grove]

So are scourge but they wont have a chance of running into a team of 3-4 players and win the encounter.
I play Emerald league often in a 7man div on coms.
Trust me lighters are a MASSIVE issue in the current state

[red forge]

this game is not all about damages

u need strat

u need a squad so u could counter against them

[warm valley]

If you guys played more than you complain you might actually get good at the game ......flame throwers are fine just try getting it with maxed harpy and a ghost terat and flame throwers that with screw up your afternoon for a minute for sure but you just keep going 😊 suck it up butter cup

[hybrid grove]

It's funny how you guys talk about countering this overpowered combintation.

[red forge]

next time just say im bad at this game

its funny how u dont know how to counter against flames

get a team

communicate with them

do u not know theres a thing called team work

[hybrid grove]

With Norricom counter is to wait for shots then dash move to another location
With Vortex wait for shots, find cover
With Scourge, Find cover
With any other weapon there is a counter:
Lighters are in the fastest mech equiped with invisibilty. Once they are in your face its a garanteed win. This makes the combination imbalanced.

[hybrid grove]

Grow up?

[red forge]

wym grow up

lighter range is very short so u could just dash back or jump

[hybrid grove]

this thread is to discuss lighters not to insult people. im done talking to you... bye

[red forge]

yeah bcs u dont know how to counter against them

u can counter most thing ingame except for the siren thing

[red forge]

"with scourge find cover" so like u can counter lighter with that

[cerulean star]

Exactly.

[lost dew]

Lighters are innocent until proven guilty. From now on could people please provide gameplay footage to prove their claims? I’ll gladly take a lighter nerf so long as they don’t make baseless statements.

[pure shadow]

I think that some of thoses complains also come from match making problems because yes a level 12 lighter with a paid pilot will obliterat a gold player but not a gold lighter.

I mean not a lvl 1 lighter as it happens faster build are aslo played a lot by more advanced player because you need to get around them otherwise you just straight up die. So yeah I'm not sure the lighter problem is real atm but I could be mistaking

[hearty wigeon]

More than 1000 messages here

You all really hate flamethrowers

[charred ferry]

Yes, it is, either you b-hop the hell out of there you use something to outrange them, it's that simple.

[lost dew]

50/50

[hearty wigeon]

I dont really mind them

Flankers should be able to get kills

Okay, its debatable.

But still

[lost dew]

I am a flanker main and I have no problems with spacing when playing other robots

Awareness is key, not just reacting the moment you get attacked. Flanker attacks can be prevented

[red forge]

doesnt need to have a kill u can disrupt enemy or make them confuse

[safe sage]

Scourges can literally kill someone in a single clip while most of the time flamers can't

This is the biggest cope I've seen in this game yet

There are multiple things that need changed, making flamethrowers unusable is not one of them

[safe sage]

There's also a gear that's entire point is to make slow mechs faster (the sprint one)

[charred ferry]

It's really bad tho

At least last time I used it it was

[safe sage]

I mean, +50 kph usually puts you on par with flankers

[modern oasis]

And it depends on how leveled your gear is, right?

[safe sage]

Well it's +51 give or take at level 1

[modern oasis]

Yeah 51 km/h

58 or so km/h at level 5

[safe sage]

Or you can use energy barrier cause a well timed and well placed one of those let's you put space between the flanker, or allows you to shred it while it tries either running or getting around/over it

[modern oasis]

I like to use the barrier to block paths

So if someone’s running then i’ll play it behind them and block them from running and they’d have to find a different direction

[frank herald]

using just three weapons (2x lighters and 1x incinerator), a flames build puts out the similar or better damage output than all other builds that utilize maximum weapons layouts (5x lights, 3x heavies, 4x lights 1x heavies, 3x lights 2x heavies)

Example:
Fenrir torso, Harpy or Siren chassis, 2x Lighter, 1x Igniter:

• Flanker: 2.79
• Assault: 2.60
• Defender: 2.93
• Tactician: 2.20
• Titan: 9.06

Fenrir torso, Fenrir chassis, 5x Punishers

• Flanker: 2.68
• Assault: 2.94
• Defender: 3.00
• Tactician: 2.44
• Titan: 4.45

in addition to putting out good dps, it's the only build that has multiple bonuses

• good splash damage, which makes it one of the easiest builds to use because even if you miss your intended targeted module, you'll still do decent splash damage to it by hitting the module next to it
• good focus damage that contends with non-splash focus weapons. unlike many other builds with some sort of splash/AOE, the flames' focus damage isn't reduced, it just does some of the best in both categories
• guaranteed burn damage over time that does 9,000 x 9 = 81,000 armor damage after getting hit by one incinerator projectile. although, it is spread apart across all modules, that's almost equivalent to a cyclops death beam (~85,000 damage)
• second fastest reload time for flanker weapon behind scatters
  • 1. scatters: 2.63s
  • 2. lighters: 5.16s (incinerator: 5.26s)
  • 3. scourges: 7.87s
  • 4. orkans: 8.72s (25% reload every 2.18s)
• one of the only builds that can easily one clip almost all bots realistically and reliably, due to its good splash damage, good focus damage, good damage over time
• due to this flames build requiring only 12 weight and 25 energy, it's also the most versatile build in the game at the moment. meaning it can use the fastest or most fuel chassis with decent shoulders, install any of the best torsos (Fenrir, Siren, Pursuer, etc.) and still have room for good supply and cycle gears, unlike many other builds that might have to make some bigger sacrifices like going without supply and/or cycle gears or having slower legs.

some say distance is key against flames builds, but a well-built flames build currently has the fastest and most versatile builds with access to some of the best gears, well beyond what most other builds can offer, so once a flames build flanks you, it would be difficult to out run it.

freezing, walls, etc. might help against flames, but they also work on everything else, so its not a specific answer to flames

[lost dew]

While flankers are objectively the fastest they're also the squishiest along with control robots, so they cannot reliably engage in head on fights. To someone fighting a flanker distance is not the key, awareness is, distance is the result.

1. Assault and defender robots can shoot flankers the moment they peek into their sightline and punish them for attempting to approach. If they peek and they're already into effective range then you made a severe mistake and (probably) for a prolonged period.
2. If a defender robot is equipped with quantums then they can overpower them with great damage, a slightly better range and a far greater health pool (I didn't write shotguns because thunders are lackluster).
3. Control robots possess the largest capacity in the game, allowing them to use advanced movement tech (e.g. wavedashing) without the use of the fuel gear and allowing them to gain a height difference flankers might not be able to clear.
4. Any build can equip almost any gear, movement gear included, creating an extra escape option.
5. Incinerators are not of any actual use to flankers as they need good kill times otherwise they may die and take the DOT as a participation award.

[lost dew]

To keep in mind: whenever I write control robots i mean tacticians. I’m writing this because I’m probably going to make this mistake again.

[cerulean star]

Tacticians do control. Name is fitting 👍

[red forge]

5 scourges but i rarely see this build

[warped mortar]

As an avid firebug in most games i play (currently not in WR due to its rampant popularity), and this may help other mechanics in the future, my suggestion would be a few things.

1. Add a Meter under/above/to the side the Enemies feet to show burn buildup, and achieving full buildup would lead to the maximum damage ticks. (this same meter below/above/or to the side of could eventually allow a couple bars for various status, a shock/cold/corrosive buildup as example) in the future
2. Incinerator by design is meant to burn, and should achieve the the full effect of the dot (with x1 incinerator) by the end of the base (40iirc) clip, and balance from there. And to adjust lighter, reduce its initial damages (ideally making it no longer the highest ttk option), and have it build the same heat meter contributing to the dot, it would take a minimum of x2 lighter to achieve the full dot by the end of the base clip (50 iirc).

The end result of this would still be that flamers are a viable option for aggressive builds, but would reduce their TTK, and allow more counterplay time by the enemy. this shouldnt be seen as a "flame utilizing flankers can no longer dive in and kill key targets", as i think the desirably flanker experience is that they can engage with key targets and should successfully do so if they make it into the back lines and initiate their damage without receiving meaningful damage from the entire enemy team when doing so. However with more of the damage moved to the dot at the end of the clip, this will induce 2 favorable outcomes.

1. Due to their being a reduced impact of flames beyond what is necessary for the Dot, it will be preferred to use x1 Incinerator, OR x2 lighter in conjunction with other close range options, examples being shredder/quantum/scourge.
2. Due to increased TTK the enemy has increased room to return damage to the flanker, and have increased likelihood to cripple/kill the flanker in any situation that would be seen as a 2v1, additionally their would be more room for groups to use skills to save burning teammates via skills like Tyr (or i think griffon would work?)
3. The Initial Damage from the clip of x2 lighter would not be as high as the damage of other flanker weapons, but the added value of the dot for its full duration would out perform other weapons that would not need to wait on a dot

This would leave combinations that consist of more than the minimum number of Lighter/Incinerator more so being a Dot and/find Cover playstyle.

Additionally you could still have the lighter add burn, as described above, but make shield prevent any heat buildup, so you would at least need to break shields before and burn damage would take effect

[lost dew]

Ok so to summarize you're suggesting:

1. An incinerator nerf by making so the user needs to magdump to get the full effect.
2. And a lighter rework by making it apply DOT like incin while reducing the damage.

Is this correct or did i miss something?

[red forge]

i think make a heating mechanics

the more u hit target the more damage

[lost dew]

If that's the case then the TTK should stay the same, otherwise it will take the reward away from the risk. I see although that reducing the initial damage would punish someone less if they manage to react quickly.

[warped mortar]

more or less

[frank herald]

because flames is better in almost every other way as outlined in my previous post, and this x3 lighter build only uses 3 weapon slots, and it can use tankier shoulders and tankier torso, and a faster and more fuel chassis

[lost dew]

Lighters are damage maximization weapon. Scourges are more efficient in terms of damage/consumption but lighters allow flankers to make good use of their energy cap. Lighters are although more efficient in terms of damage/weight since flankers lack overall weight cap.

[lost dew]

Ah and did you perhaps make use of the fenrir ability when testing?

If that was the case then the test would be invalid as we're exclusively discussing the weapon

[gleaming walrus]

The weapon is on the bot, it benefits from pilots and abilities so the abilities do matter

[safe sage]

not everyone has fenrir torso

we're discussing the weapon, not what it pairs well with

[gleaming walrus]

Ok everyone here does have the pilot that buffs flame DMG by 15%

[warped mortar]

i dont :x

[gleaming walrus]

How

It's a free pilot

[frank herald]

I was discussing flame builds and included their best TTK, and it does include using any torso abilities as we would in actual game. The comparison times that Concrete included of the scourge build also included using the siren torso ability. When talking about builds, it is valid because when making builds, sometimes sacrifices are made here and there. But in terms of flames builds, it produces so much damage from just 3 weapons that it has so much extra leeway for extra weight and energy for whatever extra stuffs

[gleaming walrus]

Plus the fenrir ability is a reusable one

Not a single or just a few uses

[safe sage]

well yeah, every torso ability is reusable

[warped mortar]

this one?

[gleaming walrus]

So it can be reliably used in combat

[gleaming walrus]

Yeah it's free

[safe sage]

not everyone has it though

[warped mortar]

and as you see i dont have it

[safe sage]

just because you dont need to spend real money doesnt mean everyone has it

[gleaming walrus]

Again, it's free I had it nearly immediately

[safe sage]

what do you play on?

[gleaming walrus]

Pc

[safe sage]

you probably just had good store rng

just because you got it nearly immediately doesnt mean everyone else did

dont make assumptions on what people have

[gleaming walrus]

do you know what free means

[safe sage]

my guy

if it was free

they;d have it.

[gleaming walrus]

Not necessarily if it was from a promo code

[frank herald]

maybe you purchase $5 lancelot bundle, its included in that. lancelot bundle was also free on console I think

[safe sage]

promo codes expire.

[gleaming walrus]

Eg

Eh

Either way robot abilities and pilots do matter

[safe sage]

the currently available promocodes dont give ruin

[lost dew]

The fenrir ability is meta, if we're discussing overall balance then it would make the ability the problem, not the weapon. Likewise we shouldn't nerf triple trebuchet sniper just because fenrir has a good ability.

[safe sage]

also yeah that

fenrir ability is quite good

also trying to minmax the build as a reason for a nerf/removal isnt exactly reasonable

[warped mortar]

best use cases are important to talk about when talking about balance, the goal is overal balance and not balance in a vacuum, but if you find that the something is only good when used in conjunction with one other specific thing, it may beg the question of if the other thing needs tuned to allow the prior to accell on its own

[safe sage]

also if I remember correctly, fenrir's ability heals you for a proportion of the damage dealt

which removes a chunk of the risk from CQC combat

[frank herald]

I've heard of others talk about and like the idea of a ramp up accumulation DOT for incinerator. could be nice based on number of incinerator projectiles hit the target.

the lighter thing sounds like a shield damage nerf does a somewhat similar thing?

[warped mortar]

im not sure which point you mean when you talk about the lighter, i think the fantasy for most firebugs in things is to burn things, and the dot helps accomplish that fantasy

[lost dew]

Not every flame build uses a fenrir torso. I don't know if the ability is so good in needs to be installed on every flanker but if that was the case then the weapon wouldn't be the one to deserve the nerf, the problem in that case would the ability that defines the sole way you are able to build a good flanker. Additionally it skews the results in favor of damage oriented torsos, needlessly taking away value from any other torso that a robot could equip.

[warped mortar]

nerfing fenrir wasn't necessarily the point i was laboring to make, its simply that we do need to consider how a weapon performs with their support options. I just elaborated to try to prevent the misinterpretation that something that relies on another part to see sucess shoulnd get nerfed, it may be the parts thats creating the success outcome... an example is orkan can one shot people, but we dont really need to nerf orkan, likely we would want to nerf the siren torso that allows it to one shot efficiently

[lost dew]

Thank you for the clarification. But we have to consider that the fenrir ability has no specific lighter synergy, so it just pointlessly alters the results in favor of a nerf.

[warped mortar]

i dont know that 'specific synergy' is relevant, if something has a 'specific synergy' yes it does matter. but the lack of a specific synergy dosnt mean how parts of a whole interact is less relevent. that said i could come up with specific synergies, like the possibility of fenrir offering breakpoints that allow lighter builds to one clip robots they otherwise could not (another example could be how well a skills duration lines up with the rate at which a weapon empties a clip and reloads, in cases like this its worth talking about how much sustained damage a combination could do during the duration of a buff, and if thats problematic. i dont think in this case it is, i dont have leveled fenrir, but possibly at high levels of fenrir and lighter, the lighter could effectively get a 2nd clip off before the fenrir expires.). I dont think fenrir is the problem when it comes to lighter. but when comparing lighter to its counterparts, looking at each performance both with AND without. likely they also have cataloged data from actual games that shows performance and what its being used with to generate that performance, to try and isolate paralels

[lost dew]

I agree that other factors should be accounted for in the long run. My problem is that i wouldn't want people to develop the opinion that lighters (the foundation of the whole flanker archetype) should be nerfed just because a specific build is more effective on demand for a contained period of time. In fact that's the opinion I perceived coming from FishStickers after showing altered results and i was worried that someone at first sight might confuse them for base TTK.

[warped mortar]

We absolutely dont want the fate of an entire roll to rely on the relevance of one weapon, that i agree, this does bring into question the performance of other weapons that compete with lighters also. The roll as a whole however should be talked about in is optimal form when talked about how it performs against other roles. i dont want to see flankers nerfed, i want to see lighters fulfill a fond fantasy, and have its own niche alongside other flanker options, without pushing other weapons out of relevance. i honestly think there are a lot of other changes they need to make before nerfing specific weapons, a lot of issues with how games play out is due to game mechanics less than weapon performance.

[lost dew]

Lighters and scourges are the only weapons that really benefit from flanking i believe. Orkans and scatters seem more like assault options (especially scatters given they can shoot through solid objects), not for the components they require but because of the way they're played. I might be wrong but what i know for certain is that they play differently, I think flankers include a sub-class that the the community has previously referred to as brawlers.

[warped mortar]

youre referring to the weapons tagged flanker, arguably quantum (and possibly other shotguns), and shredder favor a flanker playstyle, tusk when it comes out could also possibly be a flanker weapon, its also a shotgun tho

[lost dew]

Shredders have become a close to mid range option after the buff, they've got more sustain than punishers, less burst damage and way less range. They're still underpowered imo and it would be unclear what role the devs want them to take without their assault classification. Shotguns instead have the problem that you can't put a decent amount on flankers because of their requirements and defenders, although they meet them easily, they are too slow to get into effective range without the use of gear.

[warped mortar]

buffing shredder dosnt take away from their viability in the roll (it may underperform outside of maybe just x5 shredder), and you certainly can fit shotguns into build that perform the flanker roll, they wont necessarily be on phantom legs, but none of my flankers are anyhow

[lost dew]

You've inspired me to make a new build

[warped mortar]

i have one, it does well

[fickle lake]

You’ll be seeing it a lot more once I get my forth Tyr shoulder

[lost dew]

You're better off using typhon shoulders if they're available, flankers need shield

[fickle lake]

Are typhon shoulders really better?

[warped mortar]

I think typhon shoulders are really bad, they are among the squishiest, and stand out amongst every other, signaling the enemy to shoot them, tyr stats may not be to your liking comparatively, but are the same weight, less obvious, and harder to hit when they do aim for them

[fickle lake]

I agree with that tyr statement but I’ve never actually used typhon shoulders mostly because they look bulky

[warped mortar]

prolly not the best person to take advice form tho, cause im totally willing to take a slight functionality hit for something to be more asthetically pleasing

[gaunt spindle]

here are my robot ideas they might take your mind off this flamethrower mahanhttps://discord.com/channels/941368722860417105/1356141744739192983

[safe sage]

tyr and typhon are two sides of the same coin

typhon shoulders have more shields

while tyr shoulders have more armour

[fickle lake]

I noticed that after the long conversation, and what you said is true

[ocean robin]

1: Nerf incen DOT time not damage 2:Nerf lighter range another 10-25% 3: Add more stuff that can help counter flames like pilot skills for example 4: Having a hanger of fenrir flame builds is a joke imo and should be looked into 5: Im in top 70 so I've died enough and used enough flamers to actually have a solid opinion.

[hearty wigeon]

Theres not really a problem on bringing a hangar with only flame weapons or snipers

(well, you are unoriginal and everyone will hate you, but still)

The devs should just nerf the problematic weapons or torsos

[charred ferry]

Don't hate on trebs

[hearty wigeon]

Im not

I meant to say noricums

I missplelled

[charred ferry]

Noricum = sniper

Noricum = artillery nub

[hearty wigeon]

It was a missinput :(

Also I agree lmao

[rose tendon]

Try leading a moving target with a rocket barrage that takes 3-5 sec to land.....move and noricum are mainly pointless. But that's besides the point of the original post....flamethrowers.

[charred ferry]

sounds like smth a noricum player would say

[hallow crag]

Do hate on trebs

[ocean robin]

trebs take skill so it's fair game on that front

well unless your frozen for 6 secs lol

[rose tendon]

no skill to hit a stationary target, just like noricum...same amount of skill to hit a moving target, as you have to guess where they will be in 3-4 seconds and hope they didn't change direction.

[hearty wigeon]

Yeah, the only difference is trebs require aim, noricums require no brain to use, just blast the general area of the target, damage all parts equally on over SOMEHOW 50-70 meters

Give noricum the vortex treatment, give it 400 years of reload

[north karma]

nerf maybe, take out you're a moron

[hearty wigeon]

The hell did I do to you?

[stark field]

think he's talking about the OP not specifically your statement

[hearty wigeon]

Oh.

Well flamethrowers arent balanced either, but noricums are just worse

[modern oasis]

Noricoms are worse imo, had like half of my team quit mid game because the enemy team were all using noris

I know someone suggested an artillery sight be added to nori so that you can’t just point and click, which I think would be a good idea imo

[stark field]

Noricum are only bad because the current game systems encourage spawn camping and make it hard to dive spawn campers without dying. If we had some mechanic that kept them out of their spawn and prevented them from instantly respawning with a fresh mech to after you kill them it'd be a lot easier to just flamer rush the arty backline and make them a non-issue

[hybrid grove]

This thread is about lighters/incenerators! NOT noricoms, keep the focus there, and let’s stay off Trump tactics.
This post is soo on point!
I look forward to the soo well deserved nerf!!!

[safe sage]

bro is hung up on flamer nerfs

despite them having already gotten a range nerf

the only thing that currently needs changed is incin DOT

as it hits max rampup with just a tickle

[hybrid grove]

You make it sound like im the only one. However i actually play with other players, and Everyone agrees these things need a nedf. Dont agree? Go play lego instead, for real!.. bro…

[safe sage]

Clearly everyone doesn't agree they need nerfed

Skewing stuff to fit your viewpoint doesn't make it true

[hybrid grove]

Over 1300 posts in one thread?!?!!? Which planet are you from hahahahaha

[safe sage]

And???

That's still not everyone

[hybrid grove]

What are hou 10 years old for real?

[gentle tundra]

Have you seen a maxed fenrir with maxed reflector and Kate?

Goodluck killing it lol

Nerf dot dmg
Nerf the amount healed or set a limit

[safe sage]

I'm not the one misspelling basic words, and no I'm not 10, I'm just not delusional enough to think 1.3k messages equals everyone

Look at the member count of the server, look at the count of the upvote reactions and look at the amount of people in this thread, compare them together and it clearly shows it's not everyone

[hybrid grove]

Just read the post that i linked to, it accurately points out the issues with lights just as I have done in my posts. Basically..

1.Lighters have the fastest mechs, so you cant get away from them.
2.Lighters do soo much damage that you cant get away from them aka there is no counter.
3. Lighters have access to some of the best gears while already covering points 1 and 2.
If you think this is balanced then you clearly are stupid.

[safe sage]

Except you can counter them

There are several abilities that can stop you from dying

[hybrid grove]

But you know about percentages right? So you know compared to EVERY single post in the feedback, that this post far exceeds them all

[safe sage]

Several abilities that can block their path and their ability to do damage

[safe sage]

And? It's still not everyone

[hybrid grove]

Damn i cant cure stupid

[safe sage]

That's ironic when you repeatedly said everyone agrees they need nerfed

When clearly it's not everyone

[hybrid grove]

Ok but you cant deny that a very large portion, like massive, compared to every other thread has raised concerns? You still want to fight a losing battle?

[safe sage]

You're still wrong here, there's a 10 upvote different between this and a post wanting a siren nerf, so not it's not massive compared to every other most

[hybrid grove]

B4 typpng just stop.. dont engage in a verbal argument without actual arguments

[safe sage]

Before engaging in a nonverbal arguement, seeing as we're typing on discord, make sure you can spell

Oh and to try and not go constantly skew numbers in your favour

Doesn't help your case when you constantly say stuff which is just blatantly incorrect

[hybrid grove]

Okay if you say so. I actually play in the higher tiers. I actually hang out in the official discord voice chat, im actually trying to balance the game. I promise you, the general concensious amongst higher tier players is that these things need a nerf.

[safe sage]

higher tier players isnt the entire playerbase

and balancing stuff around what only the highertier players want

[hybrid grove]

So your saying this post beats every other post except the siren post? Thank you

[safe sage]

isnt a good thing for longevity.

because then you're taking out the factor of skill,

[safe sage]

saying thank you like its your post is wikd

[hybrid grove]

Keep your posts coming, i love slapping you down with actaul logic

[safe sage]

what?

you're literally saying they should cater to just the higher tier players

if they get nerfed because of performance with better players

they'll become unusable for the average player

games that balance like that wont last

its stupid

[hybrid grove]

They dont perform better at higher tiers, they just perform better period

[safe sage]

so we're just ignoring you saying this?

actually make proper reasons instead of "oh yeah higher skill players want it nerfed so it should be nerfed"

which im pretty sure isnt even the proper case

you constantly flip numbers around to fit your arguments

[hybrid grove]

Dude go away, your like a little child

[safe sage]

You're*

[hybrid grove]

Try reading the reasoning rather than clasping at straws

[safe sage]

your reasoning literally was "higher tier players think it should be nerfed"

not the best reasoning

of course most things will perform better with better players

nerfing things with that metric alone is awful balance design

[hybrid grove]

Compared to the other flaker weapon with similar damage scourge. They far out pace the 4 weapon setup of that. That weapon is more balanced, because its cost to equip does not allow you to have the fastest mech combined with the best gears.
Lighters only requires 3 weapons and still outdamges 5 weapon setups! Cant see a problem for real!?!?!

[safe sage]

it also requires you to be in their face

you're completely ignoring the fact that not everyone fights while being within the range that lighters need to be effective

[hybrid grove]

So does scourge

[safe sage]

okay and? that still changes nothing

[hybrid grove]

And it requirs 4 weapons to get even a bit close to that damage

Get real dude

[safe sage]

4 scourge can get a kill and still ammo left over

both scourges and lighters are fine

in fact I prefer scourges over lighters

i find 4 scourge to be overall more effective than 3 lighters

[gentle tundra]

The fact it’s been 2 hours and both of you are still arguing in here when the nerf has already been decided got me sitting here like 😂😂😂

[safe sage]

im bored as hell rn

got nothing better to do during the evenings

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hybrid grove]

So your saying you think 3 lighter are balanced when it requires ; scourges to get even near that damage?!???
Your saying 3 lighters out damaging 5 weapon setups is balanced????

Please never ever come here talking about balance ever again

[safe sage]

with practically every 5 weapon set up, you have the range advantage

why on god's green earth would you even bother using lighters for CQC if you could just use the average 5 weapon setup and still do more damage

[hybrid grove]

So your saying as long as you get in range you think there should be zero counter? Do you even play this game?

[safe sage]

there isnt 0 counter to lighters though

like

hello? energy wall, ares torso

varagian dome shield

[true kindle]

Scourge requires precise crosshair placement to destroy a single module with like double the reload time.

Lighters are much easier to use imo. With Fenrir I can kill most bots in under 5 seconds. I think my current fastest with lighters is sub 3 seconds.

I think lighters are fine on their own but paired with the best torso in the game they become oppressive.

Incinerator on the other hand is something else.

[safe sage]

there's blink for making distance

[safe sage]

thats the torso's problem then

not the weapon

[hybrid grove]

Hmmm let me see, highest damage, best gears, in fastest mech. Completely balanced… nothing to see here…

[safe sage]

also some of the lowest HP

but lets just ignore that

to make your case sound better

funny how easy it is to just ignore details to help your case

[hybrid grove]

You really are clueless, my last reply to you..

[safe sage]

you would make a fantastic politician

[hard nest]

Weren’t they supposed to nerf the flamers yesterday 😂

[safe sage]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

havent touched this game in a few days

[golden heron]

I think they did it a couple days ago

[hard nest]

But did they though

[hybrid grove]

Facepalm

[safe sage]

"Oh no, I havent touched the game in 3 days, how horrifying" didnt you say you werent gonna reply to me?

[golden heron]

yeah forget which day though

[hybrid grove]

2-3 weeks ago, and it wasn’t enough

[true kindle]

Haven’t see anything in the patch notes. How do y’all know?

[golden heron]

I thnk lighters are fine, DOT from harpy and inicinerator could use an adjustment

[safe sage]

yeah this

lighters do what they're meant to do

[golden heron]

search online for war robots frontiers patch notes

then there's a list of them all

[hybrid grove]

This 👆🏾

[safe sage]

camt see any mention of any flamers in it

[golden heron]

it's one of the older patches

[safe sage]

oh so the one talking about the range nerf

[golden heron]

yes

[safe sage]

yeah thats like, all the lighters needed

[lost dew]

There has been a continuation to the discussion after that post, are you going to ignore completely the other face of the player base?

[safe sage]

thats kinda what he does

[true kindle]

Here is the update from March 20th

[safe sage]

ignores things and twists numbers into his favour

[safe sage]

improved reloading SFX gotta be the best balancing change trust

[lost dew]

The "Salty" in his name does him justice, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep the discussion civilized

[safe sage]

kek

[hybrid grove]

The post i linked to is 28th of march. So after the fact

[true kindle]

Sorry Im late to this thread, let me try and find it

[true kindle]

Been playing in the test zone and it is really hard to nail down what could be balanced further.

I mean shield damage could be reduced but it is definitely hard to determine due to leveling of equipment. Plus the bots in the test zone seem like level 1 stuff.

[safe sage]

They also aren't moving or fighting back like a real player would

[rose tendon]

Yes, they are fast, yes they can equip a lot of damage, but lights also have the lowest armor and shields. Energy wall effectively blocks their flames and their movement. Getting flanked by a flamer that sneaks up on you isn't a flamer issue. Them using a Phantom torso for stealth, you not paying attention to the map and having tunnel vision, team not covering you, has nothing to do with flamer damage needing a nerf. They have to be in close range to use them. They are meant for high damage, high risk moves.

I do think the dot aspect needs a nerf. Peek out, tap flames, poof, ticking damage, repeat. Should take time to build up flame damage the longer it's held on target. That's the only nerf I would make.

[hallow crag]

how is this thread still active, it has like 1500 messages

[quick totem]

cause aparently not a lot of people like flamethrowers

[slim flare]

Just going to sneak in here to say that we will be having a PTS which will include some balance changes for the flamethrowers. More info next week 🙂 (on Tuesday!)

[gilded root]

^^^^ yeah please because that is the silliest OP wespon I've seen in this game ...take 0 talent to become invisible and flame throw someone to burst ...if you run 5 of those Robots ...you don't need anything else ...at all
..
.

I literally sold all my lighters ...because it's a kiddy rage setup imo and takes 0 talent ...

[hybrid grove]

Nice 👍🏾

[hallow crag]

Can’t wait to see the changes!

[pure shadow]

I'm saddened about that nerf eventhough I get that the players running 5 flammers are ennoying they are not profitable to their team as they die quick.
And just to say all the messages here are not in favor of the nerf by the way.
Nerfing the main flanker meta will just encourage even more the camping one that is already in place.
As I sais before in the thread the flammer are not a ploblem in my opinion as you can just keep your distance if you are carefull and aware of your surroundings (not sniping away or artillering away fully scoped) but if has been decided already I guess we will see how it goes.
If anyone is temped I will not engage in unusefull debates after that message it was just my point of view

[lost dew]

5 flamers? Using anything more than three lighters already requires huge sacrifices but having 5 is outright impossible.

[hidden meteor]

I think they meant 5 robots with flame weapons

[lost dew]

Well in that case they would be an hindrance to any unorganized team as they have very little flexibility. If there are any hangars with 5 CQC robots it's definitely a playstyle driven choice.

[warm spire]

should have a vote already, lol

[sturdy furnace]

Flame throwers need a huge nerf, you guys need to up the currency you receive across the board. I’m grinding 4-5 battles just to get 1500 gold ?! And then when i scrap my old stuff levels 3-4 .. you give me the scrap as if it was a level 1 weapon,torso, shoulder I just destroyed !!!!! and I’m starting to see the pain from FTP and PTW … this developer is known to be greedy and stay feeding the whales … one game I’m mvp.. the next with a crew of whales against I can’t even get a kill … yall better show love to the free to play players .. or I’m gone just like your game rush royale which yall have ruined

[quick totem]

i mean you should not get an entirely maxed out hangar in a day of playing also scraping things is a mechanic to effectively throw away parts you no longer need if you realy need scrap just buy them directly in the shop

[fickle lake]

Tbh both of you are acting like children

So go take your little squabble somewheres else

[hybrid grove]

Wow I rolled my eyes so far to the back of my head I think I can see behind me now, thanks!

[fickle lake]

Don’t take out your anger on me bud. I already to you to take your pitiful life somewheres else, don’t make me ask again

And you should start acting your age. The 45 year old looking man in your pfp isn’t showing the slightest bit of maturity. If it’s even you that is

Anyways back to the flamethrowers, all that needs to happen is the reduction of the effect count. It just needs to have a build up time instead of taping the trigger and the burning effect being at 100% instantly

[fickle lake]

Thank you for saving our sanity

[gilded root]

I agree metal , especially armor ...woukd take a long time to heat imo... I mean they are War Robots 🤣 , Not... Leaf Robots

[fickle lake]

Bro speaking straight facts

[sage flint]

The Reload is so long it doesn't even matter

You have to flee if you want to do more damage

They definitely did that for balancing Purposes

Excellent damage for a limited range, not a good amount of ammo and a reload that makes you feel like you're 90 after it's done

Definitely voting a no on this one

But have a heavy flame thrower on top

That's just unfair

I hate harppy's because they can do that

But the mechs that have the flame throwers are Usually flankers so the best way to kill them is to at least keep a eye out for them

Especially on those points

After not watching your points After not even 3 minutes later you hear

ENEMY TITAN DEPLOYED

Then you wonder why they got there titan so fast and you look back and see all the points capped, now you know why there's a titan

[lost dew]

Well said, i probably will never repeat this enough times: Awareness is key against close range flankers. You must not get tunnel visioned or else they will get the drop on you, and when that happens if anyone could just run away without the usage of a gear or an ability flankers would never be able to secure a kill.

[true kindle]

Most people are solely focused on where they can go from where they are, completely disregarding the other half of strategy. Defensive positioning and allowing yourself that few extra seconds of perspective can negate any close quarters combat.

The only time flankers can really secure on you is if your attention is focused on another enemy mid engagement.

Although, this is a game where you only have 6 opponents. Communication with your team and having eyes on the entire map is essential.

[gleaming walrus]

or if they kill you in 2s

before you can even react

[true kindle]

Exactly relying on in the moment reaction time/instinct will get you destroyed.

There are only so many routes one can take on each of the maps. Each step needs to be calculated or face the unholy bum rush of incinerator/lighter duo with a harpy torso 😂

Now if you get frozen by a Siren torso, only there is acceptance.

[frank herald]

the issue isn't because flankers exist

there's a reason why flames build has become meta with many players in the upper leagues with 2-4 flames builds in their hangars, and not any of the other flanker weapons (at least for flanking purposes).

we don't see as many scourge, scatter, or orkan flanker builds (other than a mid ranged orkan-siren build).

if a scourge flanks you, you can just jump or twist to avoid it because scourges only focus fires on one module at a time and if you can get them to waste enough ammo on any other module, you can survive long enough for them to reload for 8 seconds.

if a scatter flanks you, you can probably just outpower it directly because it's projectiles splits it's damage and often hits other modules instead of splash damage like flames

if a orkan flanker (except orkan-siren build) flanks you, you can just dash out of the way because it's projectile travel speed is slow enough to dodge, and if they waste their ammo, their full reload speed is even longer.

but if a flames flanks you, it has the highest reliable burst dps in the game, the highest cycle dps in the game, splash damage that makes it easy to hit multiple modules, decent average reload speed, and very good DOT if they're using a incinerator.

[lost dew]

Orkans and scatters don't benefit as much from flanking nor force you to flank, they're way closer to frontlining options and if they are meant to be used in another way it is because they're quite lackluster. In fact lighters and scourges are the only "brawler" options, that said lighters are not much better in terms of dps/consumption compared to scourges and not much harder to use, only harder to aim.

Lighters have their pros and cons when comparing them and are often interchangeable when making a CQC build, when we take the incinerator into account though the balance gets thrown all over the place. It consumes way less and it deals damage comparable to a lighter, they are annoying on defenders but lethal on specialized builds (e.g. harpy chassis build)

[frank herald]

orkans and scatters are categorized as flanker weapons so I included them. we just don't see them a lot on flanker builds because flames outshine them. orkans will still very do well with siren freeze though, but scatters got nerfed way too hard imo

**Lighter **- splash damages each module individually
Burst Armor DPS: ~22,483.8 splash (8,574.3 focused)
Burst Shield DPS: ~14,638.7 splash (7070.9 focused)
Cycle Armor DPS: ~10,035.7 splash (3,827.1 focused)
Cycle Shield DPS: ~6,534 splash (3,156.1 focused)
Unload: 4.16s
Reload: 5.16s
Cycle: 9.32s

**Incinerator **- splash damages each module individually, damage over time
Burst Armor DPS: ~16,886.8 splash (7,443.2 focused) + 81,000 DOT over 4.5s (18,000 DOT DPS)
Burst Shield DPS: ~15,070.7 splash (5,713.3 focused) + 13,500 DOT over 4.5s (3,000 DOT DPS)
Cycle Armor DPS: ~5,769.8 splash (2,543.2 focused)
Cycle Shield DPS: ~5,149.3 splash (1,952.3 focused)
Unload: 2.73s
Reload: 5.26s
Cycle: 7.99s

Scourge
Burst Armor DPS: 5,721.5
Burst Shield DPS: 8,354.4
Cycle Armor DPS: 2,548.3
Cycle Shield DPS: 3,720.9
Unload: 6.32s
Reload: 7.87s
Cycle: 14.19s

if you look at the numbers, lighters are way better than scourges in terms of dps/consumption. scourge builds require more weapons in order to compete with flames dps, so it'll make a lot more sacrifices because of the extra weight

[warm spire]

scatters go through walls, essentially thats called a wall hack.. shouldn't have to be nerf'd if it wouldn't do that.. and it should be more visible with a blue ring or something like a air cannon vibe.. then it would be more practical. personally I don't like lighters, because I know its a cheap weapon, because of the wide berth is the shooting type.. and leaves the after effect.. so thus if it was more narrower, it could be more dodgeable and thus add more buff.

[lost dew]

Focused damage is what matters for flankers as it grants them exactly what they need: short TTKs.
Pulling out of a fight as a flanker is often not possible as it takes away the most important advantage: the surprise factor.
I would like to propose some nerfs/reworks for lighters that probably wouldn't be as controversial as some other proposed by diehard flame haters (Just need to look at the title for an example):

1. Reducing the splash damage. It allows incompetent flankers to just rush in, deal insane damage and die, it might not be useful to them but it is to their stats and their teammates. Along with this i would put a reduced flame particle size so it's not as much of a noob tool and skilled flankers can focus their damage.

2. Inverting their role of damage maximizer with scourges. With that i mean inverting most of their stats and making the scourge the highest damage/weight option (11 energy, 3 weight) this way we make high rank CQC require more aim.

[gilded root]

Incinerators hitting you from half a map away , and through walls ...and having DoT... what could go wrong?

[lost dew]

I did not talk about incinerators in my previous message, please don't try to put words in my mouth.

On top of that we're talking about the balancing of flanker weapons, Incinerator is a defender weapon and the fact that it can be placed on flankers is a problem on its own

Clarification: i'm talking about flanker weapons right now with fishstickers, i know what the thread is about

[gilded root]

I was talking about incinerators, not everthing is about you ..and I asked what could go wrong ...

[lost dew]

Then why did you ping me as to respond to my message?

[gilded root]

I asked a question ..guess that not allowed here?

[lost dew]

What i perceived was an ironic question made to mock my statement

[gilded root]

And I messed up , I ment to ask her ... not your weird self ...

For that I apologize

[lost dew]

Sure, no problem. I apologize for the rude response

[gilded root]

@lost dew no worries , Have a Blessed day!!!

[fickle lake]

I thought I was gonna have to step in again 😑

[polar citrus]

In a game mode that rewards suicide robots, flamers are good at that. All they gotta do is reduce contribution for dying and flamers will drop to a less effective way to easily get rank 1 every match, which is the only reason people spam them.

[frank herald]

huh? we dont get points for dying

[polar citrus]

subtract from your total contribution.

[frank herald]

ah I think would be nice to give a bonus to those with most bots remaining, better than a punishment for losing bots. the current addition of most damage getting bonus points gives even more reason to spam high dps builds like flamers

[polar citrus]

No, that's the opposite of what needs to happen. If you give bonus points for least deaths, people will just run the whole fight and not contribute.

You gotta penalize deaths to nerf flamers. Better solution than removing them

[brittle zealot]

i agree, if you do poor enough you can already gain NEGATIVE xp (as of day one patch idk about now), no reason to give negative points and send new players to hell

no idea what the convo is about just wanted to chime in

[brittle zealot]

i actually have a screenshot of one of my friends losing xp lmao let me find it

[polar citrus]

Contribution affects rank, not xp

[brittle zealot]

really?

here

[polar citrus]

So if you just run in, do high damage and die a bunch, you won't get much contribution, which makes sense because you're not really helping your team win.

[brittle zealot]

and here was the scoreboard for this game

[polar citrus]

But currently if you do that, you'll often get top rank or second

Which makes no sense

[brittle zealot]

ehh i still think subtracting them is a slippery slope. because (if impact contributes to xp, not completely sure) things like this can happen

[polar citrus]

Nah, just affect rank

[brittle zealot]

and we don't want new players losing xp, they will die a lot

[brittle zealot]

you mean how much elo you gain at the end of a match?

or your placement in the lobby

[polar citrus]

You know how contribution affects your placement at the end, and that's what affects how much rank you gain/lose

[brittle zealot]

ohh yeah that's fair, i agree with that

[polar citrus]

But it relates to flamers because instead of removing them entirely they would essentially be nerfed in ranked matches because they are often very Squishy and die frequently. So even if you just run in 6 times with flamers and rack up a ton of damage, your rank score will suffer because you died 5 times and didn't really help your team

If you keep winning you'll still advance, which is fair, but if your team loses you'll likely get negative rank

[brittle zealot]

honestly i don't think flamers need to be removed. just close range combat needs a big overhaul. imo scourge is the ideal "balanced" close range weapon, it can be outplayed but can also nuke someone.

[frank herald]

I think penalizing score for deaths is an overall feels bad thing. and because it doesn't affect only flamers, but also everyone because everyone dies. I dont think it will solve the flamer issue, just maybe the people who charge in carelessly

[frank herald]

oh I don't think its about removing flames anymore, its more about rebalancing flames

[polar citrus]

Well naturally everyone dies, which balances it out on average, but light close range suits die far more frequently

[brittle zealot]

Ehh. if you know how to play or have the right build they can survive for quite a while

[polar citrus]

So you gotta play flamer suits with skill, or suffer.

But as it stands now, I've literally played matches with 5 people all running flamers the entire match and they just run in and die

Usually at least one person has 3+ flamer suits

And they use them to rack up damage fast to get top contribution

And that's just unbalanced

[frank herald]

yeah its become such a meta where players are just carelessly spam mob rushing in groups of multiple flamers. they aren't even flanking with them anymore, they're just charging in directly head on. and depending on the build, they can be quite tanky flamers, so they'll do heavy damage and are harder to kill than the average flamer.

[true kindle]

Don’t forget invincibility by spawn protection. Literally the worst, kill someone just for them to blow you away with an incinerator 2 seconds later.

[polar citrus]

Even the tankier ones die fairly quickly to 2 suits.

I always avoid hanging around enemy spawn locations, but nothing is worse than 2+ people waiting to spawn until you get close. I hate that that's a strategy.

[true kindle]

So glad tomorrow is the beginning of much needed adjustments. Im hoping the test server has more than just flamethrower changes.

[stark field]

there's no flamethrower changes for the update though. Only thing getting changed is they're undoing the (un)intentional stealth nerf to credit gains.
Unless you're only referring to checking out the test server stuff. Then one can only hope

[true kindle]

Yeah thats what I meant, I know nothing’s final but hoping we get some good balancing out of the test server.

[rose tendon]

They rush in, rack up a lot of damage, and die....that's 3 bots out of their hangar if they are running that many. Trading a kill for a kill, unless you're specifically targetting the same players bots, is just a waste and isn't helping your team win when you get botted out before the halfway point.