#On Null, Low and High having their own place in the world of Mining

72 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

warped shoal
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After reviewing the dev blog, super super happy with the communication and the direction. A few of us were discussing in my alliance and we came to the same conclusion on potentials to ensure Null, Low and High sec all have their own role to play in mining. Why not remove Mercoxit and deepcore mining altogether from Null and move all Morphite sources to low sec via new sites meant for expedition frigates and riskier mining ops. Low sec is full of life and activity and they might align nicely due to a few things:

  • Supply of Morphite into high sec currently only comes from Null Sec Exports, this strains public supply, having it be close to both Null and High will encourage the supply to be more fluid
  • Supply of Morphite needed is not as much as current low sec ores by volume, meaning you can make more frequent, lower volume, higher value trips into Low Sec Space
  • Pushing Mercoxit mining to Low into newer sites would:
    • Encourage players to venture from High sec into Low sec to be more risky to go and get the "best stuff" and really make their adventure worthwhile
    • Encourage competition over sites
      • Could maybe intertwine faction war so that the empires are competing over rare resource access?
      • Low sec groups would have more reasons to drop dreads over, a weekly/monthly jackpot site that spawns with 30b of Morphite would be real juicy to fight over

And i'm sure plenty of other possibilities to play with. But Probably moving the most expensive and rarest ore to Low Sec (a place with arguably the most danger in New Eden) would track very well to encourage a multitude of players to go out, fight over it, and get it.

meager cape
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What about wormholes? I would like to see something other than just "here's an average every once in a while".

undone totem
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Hey there, thanks for all the ideas! There are definitely a few good ones in here that align with some ideas floating around. I don't have a full picture on LS/HS/J-Space yet, but I will keep note of these as we delve deeper into those topics.

Keep the ideas coming!

undone totem
warped shoal
feral cloud
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CCP doesn't need to encourage One Security space over Another IE New Hisec Miners to Venture into Low..

Players are already doing that..

Whats Needed is More Balancing them Accross the Board.. Making each Security Space Unique and Enjoyable for thier own style of Game play...

High Sec can be more focused for the Solo player.. A Player who refuses to join other player corps. for example.

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My opnion Metanox Moon drill Automation seems Game Breaking and disrupts the Balance with ever other Security space Not having a Counter Balance tool...

What a disaster... Causing a Shortage areound HSec Minerals... This would be an Opertunity for Highsec to Counter..

Why aren't there more HiSec Miners out there in the Asteroid Belts...

Did Ganking chase those Easy AFK Targets away? I thought it was refreshing when Bargees had a small boost to Tank countering the ridicously cheap Catalysts fits.

abstract dust
# undone totem Yep, Wormholes need some discussion and love too. 🙂 I'm thinking about em!

Something generally that may be a worthwhile idea for npc null, low, high, and wormholes is a way to reintroduce some of the old ores from the original Lifeblood patch when Refineries were first introduced, the enhanced mineral ores. Perhaps a rig that adds back one Of the old mineral ores back to mineable moon at random with some weighting of type in those areas. It’d decouple some of the hyper dependence on sovnull for certain things(as it remains a place where most things end up coming from) and it requiring a rig would encourage investment

I think that it’s an oft neglected point of plat that people don’t just engage in infrastructure and long term development in null, it happens in high and low and wormholes and npc null as well

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Also apologies for the ping a few days later

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Not sure if you’re familiar with how Refineries worked at release of the Lifeblood patch or not, as you mentioned you’ve only been with CCP a short while

undone totem
abstract dust
# undone totem Interesting! Taking note to think about it once we get back to other parts of sp...

So when Lifeblood(the refineries and new moon mining update) released circa 2017, we got the current refinery structures, the Athanor and Tatara

Moon resources were also a bit different. We had the normal moon goo rocks, the R4-R64 and such but there were also other rocks based on the normal asteroid ores

These ores WERE a bit unbalanced as you could get the enhanced versions of Arkonor and Bistot and such even off of Highsec moons but it was a good time to be an industrialist.

These asteroid rocks were just another resource as part of normal moon pulls.

They were a nice thing to have for industrialists and rewarded people for investing in building refineries but these were removed some years before the Scarcity related balances and have never come back

The enhanced mineral ores were just higher yield versions of asteroid ores with additional minerals of their specific type

My suggestion isn’t to return to them being just a resource you get normally, but require a rig investment to add back one(or two) of the enhanced rocks back to moon fields as additional pull yield, and weight what types of ores can be spawned based on the area of space the refinery is in. Say highsec has a high chance of spawning certain lowsec ores on a moon and a small chance of spawning a null ore, low a higher chance to spawn null ores, and null a higher chance to spawn low ores.

Alternatively, a rig just allows you to add a single type of ore at random permanently to the moon As long as the rig is installed

But this is what a moon pull used to look like at release of Lifeblood and for about two years after

moon_8.png moon_4.png moon_6.png moon_7.png
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Can either do the box of chocolates approach for every moon pull, or ‘installed rig gives one specific thing until structure is destroyed or rig removed’

turbid scarab
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While i get wanting more content in lowsec i invite everyone wanting anything mineral related being lowsec only to refer to what happened with isogen and then ask yourself if doing it again will be a good idea ( its not and history backs that up)

If you want to add it to lowsec through some means, but do not make it lowsec only

abstract dust
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I still think re-adding the older enhanced mineral ores back to moon pulls by way of a rig choice would be a good way to give differentials and choice for investment to areas other than Sovnull

forest plover
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No

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Just reduce the amount of trit/isogen you can get in Null. Increase isogen in LS and keep trit normal in HS

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Whs got blue loot

abstract dust
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isogen mostly in low didn't increase it being mined significantly before

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it in fact led to a stagnation in supply

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that led to a number of cost related issues for various ships(particularly, but not limited to, Battleships, freighters, regular capitals) before it was largely given back to null

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I say this as one of the people that regularly mined lowsec isogen rocks and watched it continue to skyrocket in price at the time

forest plover
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It didnt increase because its a pain in the ass to mine

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You make it not a pain in the ass to mine, by replacing all the system jaspet anoms with ochre anoms then it isnt a pain in the ass to mine anymore

abstract dust
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considering I was raking it in by the ton in consistently manufacturable quantities

no.

Pixy, very bluntly, it was a pain in the ass to mine because most significant Iso mining fleets were largely helldropped(if barges and porpoise) or camped off of the fields consistently(if expedition frigs and ventures)

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even in largely backwater nowheres

forest plover
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I was raking it in as well.
You change it to where every system has consistent isogen like nullsec gets consistent belts then itll be fine

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The issue was sites were camped or just in too hot of a system. Put it everywhere

abstract dust
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and, I disagree.

We'll see another supply stagnation.

Because people largely will not field the larger mining fleets into low because of helldrop concerns, and we'll be back to people being scattered off fields again by a trio of recons ready to light a blops cyno at a moment's notice

If anything, if anyone does start fielding larger fleets, it'll be nullsec sigs setup to locust anoms in an area with a dread bomb ready to go from a cache

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....which happened last time as well

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and still was supply stagnant

forest plover
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You put them in every system and do what they did with null, increase the rock m3 to where its actually viable to use a rorq no it won't

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Back in the age of rorqs those things slurrped up crokite belts like non-other

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Give us consistent isogen along with 1mil + m3 of ore per rock and see what happens

abstract dust
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that was also back when Rorqs outmined literally everything, CCP knew they outmined everything, implimented the gigabuff anyway, and have been trying to correct for it for the last nine years

forest plover
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Doesnt change anything then give all the shit to null

abstract dust
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that has nothing to do with any of the suggestions I made further up, nor do I appreciate you trying to stuff words in my mouth, but hey.

forest plover
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Im not putting any words into your mouth

abstract dust
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'doesn't change anything then give all the shit to null'

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comes across like it

forest plover
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Is in reference to my post. Not yours

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Dont be so dense

abstract dust
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you act like we're friends with intimate knowledge of eachother's writing mannerisms

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if it wasn't aimed at me, I'll accept that, sorry

forest plover
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Im sorry i dont post extremely long ass paragraphs with everything. I break up my text.

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As i was saying.

You give lowsec consistent isogen to mine, along with 1mil + m3 rocks and see what happens
If that doesnt change anything them give all the ore to Nullsec

abstract dust
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I still think giving the power to people to, limitedly, choose their resources outside of SovNull is a better direction

forest plover
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How many athanors do you currently see in lowsec on moons. Its all changed to drills

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Thatll do nothing to improve mining in LS

abstract dust
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that's going to change come tomorrow, since they're upping fueling costs and will limit what'll be profitable to have the metes on

forest plover
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Unless you make r4 and r8 moons worth it, which i highly doubt that would, still wont change much for LS

abstract dust
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Again, with the rig idea, bringing back the older enhanced asteroid ores, which metes won't and can't mine regular minerals anyway

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you'd probably see more use from investment

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but I'm also talking more broadly than just lowsec

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I'm talking about highsec, wormholes, and npc null as well

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areas where high investment is common, but there remain a lot of issues

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and again, don't make it an automatic thing, make someone have to invest in a rig to get some of those enhanced ores back

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make people decidee whether they want the extra minerals, or to have better overall yields for the normal moon ores

forest plover
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Hs doesnt need more. HS has enough good sources of income as is. Whs have good sources of nice afkable income as is as well. Now theyll get an increase to mining income.
LSs main good source of income is FW, or roaming ore anoms or FPs or events. Give LS good consistent ore to mine just like null

abstract dust
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all I'm getting out of this is you only care about lowsec and think everywhere else is fine except sovnull

forest plover
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I do care about LS you are correct.
HS is fine. They have homefronts. R4 moons, incursions, missions and all the trade hubs, which is relatively safe so long as you arent a complete dummy.
WHs, granted high end WHs, have extremely good income from blue loot, along with WH gas.
SovNull has unlimited ratting and now has the choice of whatever mineral they want to mine. All under almost complete safety.
LS has FW which honestly is being ruined by Null blocs. We have mining sites but as you already pointed out they are hell camped. We do normally have great rewards from events tho when those are held

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Only other place that is probably worse off than LS is NPC Null

turbid scarab
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Regardless equinox absolutely strangled our nuts in null

And no matter what mental gymnastics people use to justify moving any mineral to be exclusive to low sec has proven to be a disaster and should not be repeated in any capacity

You're not going to force null into low to get anything significant

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They didnt do it when isogen was a bottleneck, and they didnt do it within the last 6 months

What makes anyone think null is going to do it if you do, or y or z

forest plover
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No one mined giant quantitise of isogen in LS because it was a major pain in the ass to do so

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you make it not a pain in the ass and people will mine it

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its a ton of fun, when you only get 1 good site a week or every 2 weeks

turbid scarab
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Im sure its on the list along with wormholes too

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There needs to a proper encouragement but peoples hands should never be hard forced no matter what space your in

Its a recipe for a disaster

forest plover
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Peoples hands are hard force for morphite

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as far as I am aware, nullsec and maybe whs are the only place to get morphite

turbid scarab
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It was also really busted for time too and wasnt spawning