Check out the latest Devblog from CCP Okami: "Equinox Mining Balance, Philosophy and Learnings"

[fossil stratus]

You can find the Devblog here: https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/equinox-mining-balance-philosophy-and-learnings

Use this space to ask questions in a more structured way so they don't get lost to the sands of Discord time

[final swift]

Ore anomalies generated by both T1 and T2 Prospecting Array Upgrades in Nullsec have been rebalanced to contain a higher quantity of ore distributed across fewer but larger asteroids. does this mean the overall m3 of the anoms will also increase or is this only limited to modifying the rock sizes?

[waxen crypt]

Starting a thread to keep track of some of the extra details from various questions and comments:

Q: What will be the m3 of T3 sites?
A: We're looking at the sites being 13-25mil m3 in range

Q: Will T2 and T2 sites have more m3 as well?
A: Yes, on top of having bigger rocks there will be more m3 in the sites

Q: What will the power and workforce cost for T3 Upgrades be?
A:

• T1 Power: 450, Wf: 6,400
• T2 Power: 1,220, Wf: 12,700
• T3 Power: 1,800, Wf: 18,100

Q: What are the average size of rocks in sites?
A:

I took the average, min and max volumes of rocks in 2 sample sites for reference (Veldspar and Griemeer) so you can see how the balance varies from sparse and dense sites in general

They look like...

Veldspar

• T1 sites - avg: ~30k m3, min: 17k m3, max: 43k m3
• T2 sites: - avg: ~85k m3, min: 44k m3, max: 240k m3
• T3 sites: avg: ~415k m3, min: 170k m3, max: 850k m3

Griemeer

• T1 sites - avg: ~23k m3, min: 18k m3, max: 38k m3
• T2 sites - avg: ~76k m3, min: 33k m3, max: 250k m3
• T3 sites - avg: ~340k m3, min: 130k m3, max: 780k m3

---

🎉 Also calling out that this has been a tremendous effort and I want to thank CSM18 and 19 for their support, as well as the tremendously patient and talented designers that are hard at work actually making this stuff happen.

[lethal dawn]

I think the best power/workforce would be have the smalls require almost nothing, make the t2 be the old small, and the t3 require the current t2.

[deep spindle]

I agree.

And whoever gave this a thumbs down is a heretic.

[lethal dawn]

the smalls are so small its not even worth having, but its a filler module. the large are the mining standards and the t3 is the "rare" sites. they harder to come buy but still possible and for larger groups they cant be mined in under an hour. 15-25m m3 is a lot and will defiintly help fix the current situation, you dont want there to be so little t3s that they dont make a difference. this is all also be the " locust sized anoms" that they were talking about when releasing it.

[deep spindle]

Smalls are good for solo or small mining fleets

[marsh plover]

I understand that you’re still working on Workforce and Power requirements, in a lot of cases a T2 mining upgrade maxes out most systems currently because the Equinox system was applied to a randomly generated tree of systems, with some areas distributed to be “lesser” than others, and tying it to TruSec. This makes some areas of space more valuable than others and limits the “flexibility” aspect of the vision you described. So I think a further rebalance of workforce and power should be considered, or as I’m writing this implement something similar to what @lethal dawn said.

Additionally, as a sov upgrade planner for an alliance, the way that equinox workforce is managed is atrociously, unnecessarily tedious and complicated. Again, going back to the randomly generated tree systems were generated in, there are a lot of bottlenecks and highways that end up having to be neutered as “Transit” systems, not being able to even get a small increase on workforce passing through them. It makes planning sov a nightmare when trying to move workforce around.

To alleviate this, would it be better to - so long as the systems are owned by the sov owner and adjacent to each other (not via ansiblex gates), that workforce and freely be distributed across the space? Again, having the arbitrarily tedious system of “Import” “Export” and “Transit” is not flexible at all. Most systems will just be “transit” because of the way the map was generated 20 years ago.

[lyric mesa]

Just fyi you killed metanoxes in wormhole space and most low sec 😂

[lethal dawn]

good passive moon mining is bad

[sour saddle]

was never designed for hs moon and wh space is hs moon

[lyric mesa]

Which is also bad wormhole moons should have better moons since they are much more dangerous to mine with no local

[sour saddle]

you are also 100% wrong about ls

no

wh shouldnt even have moon mining

[lyric mesa]

But hey null gets better things again so I’m fine 😂

[sour saddle]

so far 100% of your statements have been wrong

[lyric mesa]

Metanoxes are only good for r16’s and up now so there half decent for low sec

Wormholes as you say should just have no moon ores at all and their current ore spawns should be halved since blue loot is so op

[sour saddle]

you do understand that ls have the same moon has ns right?

[lyric mesa]

Hmhm

[sour saddle]

you think there is no r64 in ls?

[lyric mesa]

I just think it’s bad new players still have a sort of chance in wormholes ls and ns is just occupied by to strong forces to get a foot in the door

[sour saddle]

the only reason wh have moon mining is because when the citadel expension got released they complained that they couldnt play with the new athanor and ccp wanted everyone to move away from pos to the new upwell structure so they gave them hs moon so they could try it

for the vast majority of wh existence moon mining was not something existing in that area of space

[lyric mesa]

Or it was forgotten it depends how you look at it

[sour saddle]

no that was an intended choice

[lyric mesa]

Allot of wormholes would love to have higher tier moons to get rorq kills back on the table

Since there now mostly used as big ass smartbombs in certain holes

[sour saddle]

ccp didnt want wh space to be 100% indenpendt of kspace

[lyric mesa]

And as said newer players actually still have a chance to live there vs other places

[sour saddle]

.

[lyric mesa]

It’s ok luckily we are all allowed to have our own opinions

Would have been a sad world if not

[sour saddle]

opinions are useless when talking about facts

[lyric mesa]

Show me the average new players surving in low sec 😂

[sour saddle]

we are in the "its my opinion that the earth is flat" territory

[lyric mesa]

Well it’s oval but that’s not the question

[polar hedge]

Interesting fact - Wormholes were introduced in 2009, Athanors came in 2017, it's now 2025, so wormholes have had moon mining for 50% of their existance.

[dark garnet]

any hard numbers on new rock soze? Are we talking 40km3 rocks to 60km3 rocks or more like 40km3 rocks to 200km3 rocks?

[marsh osprey]

ya could we get an avg rock size for each anom flavor

😔 🙏

[deep spindle]

@waxen crypt I think that the main issue with using a T3 upgrade is if it results in having to offline 2-3 T2 upgrade for each T3.

I feel fitting reqs for T2 and T3 should be shifted down so we can actually fit these upgrades in. I saw some mention of adjustments to fitting reqs for upgrades but just wanted to yap a bit.

[crimson cargo]

If we're talking 20m m3 range then 40-50 rocks at 400-500k m3 is a reasonable guess

could even double it and get 250k m3

at 100 rocks

which is still great imo

[deep spindle]

Forgot a k there

[crimson cargo]

MAFF

[deep spindle]

500m3 rocks

[valid rivet]

can we get the devblog pinged in #devblogs

[dark garnet]

last time I assumed that was when ccp swift said "really large rocks"

[crimson cargo]

Yeah but this time Okami gave the estimate theyre aiming for and its 16-24m m3 per side. I just parked my number in the middle 😂

Theyre doing concrete numbers now!

🤤

Sorry. He said 13-26m m3***

i like to make shit up

[marsh osprey]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2140555627?t=34m35s 😭

[lethal dawn]

moon sized rocks it sounds like, which is how it should have been

[valid rivet]

It's my opinion that this isn't far enough, sadly. I know there are stockpiles or what have you but the supply of too many things is still low. I want people excited to get into space and mine again.

This is on top of the fact that high sec mining can and should remain crappy due to the complete AFK nature. Do you know how many newbies dreams I have to crush in #new-player-questions because they all want to do mining, and they're wanting to stay in high sec, and they want to stay alpha. If I can get them to leave highsec, they can print isk.

The other lever on minerals per unit mined need to be tuned, now, With the stated goal that they get tuned next week and the week after. Yes, it's a simulation, but there is obvious need for tuning of these values. How long did it take isogen to recover from slow tuning. Wait, it still isn't recovered. even with every single null sec standing up an isogen anomaly.

Be bold. Pull some levers. With the stated goal to pull the levers in a week.

Love the increased rock size. I'm the guy who put the old system into eve wiki before it ended, for instance. 😄

what does success look like? Miners excited to come back to eve.

rorquals in space

caps defending these rorquals

me killing bubbling these caps 😄

[lyric mesa]

Wormhole space 😉 it’s one of the few places they can sort of be still without having local pirates or null systems asking rent

[valid rivet]

as long as they are out of high sec. https://www.wckg.net/Newbie/high-sec-mining has a break down of the incomes for an alpha level maxed venture (with some exceptions)

Null 76 mil an hour if omega, rarely 47 mil an hour as alpha, but often 25 mil an hour
Poch 29 mil an hour
Low 25 mil an hour
WH 19 mil an hour
High 7.1 mil an hour if omega doing ice, rarely 6 mil an hour, but more often MAYBE 5 mil an hour.  could be as low as 3 mil an hour with perfect skills.```

[lyric mesa]

Did you also do gas mining in that calculation?

My guys are having a blast in wh space gas huffing people are literally calling eachother gas addicts by now

[night veldt]

Thank you for your blogpost!
Its great.
When you want to maybe have another avenue for some minerals maybe we could think about giving salvage the possibility to contribute to the need for minerals. Currently salvaging isn#t really worth it for most wracks.

as a byproduct we would mybe see more ship movement because of the need of manuvering minerals

[valid rivet]

I will say i do appreciate the transparency, I glad to see honest talk coming out CCP and seeing CCP on this discord in numbers. Thank you, Okami

[tough berry]

j-space has been missing a middleground objective that can force fights that's bewteen "you dont get to live in this system anymore" and "we're in your system pwease undock 🥺 "
why not have moondrills be that objective?

[long tide]

C5/C6 whs have the blue loot

[peak musk]

What would be average rock size on the new sites ?

[sour saddle]

the sieged dread that is getting tackled by the people rage rolling is the middleground objective that force fight

[marble edge]

CCP Okami, thanks for the devblog, if you are adding notes to the eventual revisit for "mining in other regions" ideas, i humbly submit:

• FW lowsec : currently ihubs only serve to "flip" ownership, and the upgrades to them are not meaningful to the FWers, but if upgrade levels could be repurposed a bit, one of them could increase chances to spawn ore anomalies, it could be an interesting way to seed more lowsec ore (or even add tiny quantities of the unique null ones)

• highsec: currently athanors can only moon drill in 0.5 systems, but there are great moons in 0.6 > and above. Any option to consider allowing athanor moon drilling in 0.6 to 0.9?

• metaliminal storms: the weather effect that moves around, could add a unique mining anomaly (think of equivalent winter nexus ice mining sites) and you can use unique ores there (either some of the recently introduced ores, or new ones balanced around that storm effect), therefore they provide a mild jackpot opportunity

[tough berry]

when was the last time that happened in a home hole? 🙂

[clever ridge]

Where are the increases to high sec border ore anomalies that are currently getting sweeped in minutes?

[uncut jetty]

@waxen crypt Seeing How I can't post in the Mining Channel I'll ask here. Where is the NCP Null Love.........

[long tide]

Go verify.
Also this is entirely Null focused? How is that not giving Null love? Y'all arent going to just get a 1000% increase right away. If it happens, it will be in small incrememental steps such as what is suppose to come March 12th

[uncut jetty]

This is Only Sov Null focused. NCP Null can't do anything with the new Anoms.

[long tide]

Ah missed the NPC part, apologies. NPC null does need a look over, possibly will get an update after the march 12th one. Who knows

[uncut jetty]

Yeah for the most part it is the AB /Rare Merc Anoms, and Moon Mining. That being said the Moon drills have cut down on the amount of opportunities to mine as fewer moons are getting popped now. So something really needs to be done with it. For the moment I've had to go back to module mining lol.

[valid rivet]

https://www.eveonline.com/discord verify yourself here to talk in the normal channel

[uncut jetty]

Thanks, I did that before, but I Guess it didn't take.

[undone grove]

Im not sure if more m3 solves the issue that not enough minerals are available as it would require miners that have empty slots to mine more.

But i love that the insight is given at what ccp thinks

And for once a communication

[bright coral]

I didn't see this mentioned above, but I apologize in advance if it was... Has there been any thought to changing mining anoms so it is not simply 1 per system upgrade?

I always thought it was a huge L when it was changed to this, because it made it so much riskier to mine in null sec. Gankers no longer need to bother scanning you down or checking multiple locations. They come into the system, warp directly to the ONE option for the mining anom, and they jump on the miners with ease. The average null-sec miner doesn't have a group of PvP ships defending them, so it's an easy win for hot droppers. That's not really PvP content IMO - that's just padding zkill numbers with no risk for the gankers.

[undone grove]

I mean you could counter it by having more systems with the mining sov

so your not stacked in a handful of systems

Combined with SMT that will be preaty safe

Another idea is the site has like clusters

between each big rock cluster is 300km

[smoky dust]

I started out mining in low sec and it gave me the experience to live in low sec without dying every 5 seconds
the danger, high ore value, and low investment needed for ventures to still get good money, is perfect for that

atm low sec has no A0/border ore anomalies; I think you could lean into danger mining further with very high value ores but small rocks and small anomaly sizes. pretty much like pochven, I guess

[bright coral]

No matter what system they go to though - it's always just 1 anom with a single warp-in point. SMT won't defend you from filament groups either. They can filament in, immediately warp to the one anom, and win.

[undone grove]

But the risk of fillaments is low

from my experiance in a ice system

But the 1 anomaly can protect you when you have to double warp

with big clusters a dscan is like 1s

so when i got 3 sites it takes 3s

The issue is rocks are already small and if you split them up into more sites it gets even less remaining m3 per site so the total stays equal

Maybe ccp adds a small merco site per sov t3 mining module or maybe 2

can spawn in systems with ming upgrades i hate hunting randome spawns

[lethal dawn]

never mine at 0, most boosts can get you to 40k from warp in, up to 83k with specific covetor and rorqual fits, create a perch from the oposide side of the main warp in ( like the main gate traveled, that gives you time to warp out

if you mine at the warp in, youre doing it wrong

[dull idol]

Great read. Hopefully the upcoming changes improve the miners "fun" factor and profit margins. Currently, I think mining is considered one of the lower isk yielding career paths, but so many players really do love the concept of grouping together and mining for hours! Me included!

One suggestion related to future discussions..

Although, we do have the rorqual, which provides mining boost and compression for large fleets, have there ever been discussions about other potential capital mining ships? One really fun idea would be a capital skiff (or exhumer). A ship that's sole focus is protecting the mining fleets, while still being able to mine at a somewhat moderate rate. It's highest strengths would be survival and fleet protection, while sacrificing some mining yield/s.

This would ultimately take some of the protection/survival role away from the rorqual, but also allow the rorqual to boost/compress/freight/support and also continue to be a good miner. A capital sized exhumer could take on a different role. It adds more variety to mining fleets and gives exhumer pilots something else to aim for if they don't want to multibox with a rorqual.

In the end, I would guess that the majority of players love the idea of being able to fly a capital ship. However, having the rorqual as the only option kind of forces players to consider the idea of multiboxing and not everyone enjoys that part of the game. By introducing another ORE capital ship, it gives players more options. Specifically, more options that are specifically designed with solo accounts in mind.

[marsh osprey]

"have there ever been discussions about other potential capital mining ships? "

the mining dread union has hearted this post. keep up the good work

[red glacier]

Isn't that what the panic button is for?

[nimble wedge]

@waxen crypt can we please get a QoL change for moon miners (Athanor/Tatara, not Mete) - can the option to compress your moon ore be added to structures without the need for a 3rd party such as a Rorq/refinery module?

The Metenox fuel increase feels like it's a slight direction towards making Metenox's more useful for big alliances with sprawl and stockpile, which is fair enough, but I've seen plenty of miners who just like to use a porpoise for boosts and handle the compression side later on.

It would just make moon mining considerably easier for all regions of space to be able to do that, I think. It would partly reduce the need for a Rorq on grid, but they're not often found out these days anyway so hopefully with all changes coming in we'll see a bit more active use.

[mild quartz]

Maybe the Rorqual can be made more a Swiss Army Knife?

With ways to change it from an orbital mobile moon mining platform to a super heavy strip miner with appropriate kit and gear being used.

Personally the drone waste issue has pretty much given everyone a headache.

Fitting also of certain mining modules [ORE Deep Core Mining Lasers] needs to be looked into as well. Try fitting two to a Prospect and try to max-min as much as you can try.

[uncut fossil]

Good morning, my suggestion is that the ORE ships should put a little more percentage on resistance and increase the life points for shield, armor and structure. In addition, the Orca should have two fixed modules to use compression and they should put two more exclusive ones on the upper ones than those that were put in, and put an extension on all the others for the high, medium and low modules.

[waxen crypt]

Heya, thanks for the feedback! Moon miner changes in general are super on the table. I think we're still trying to find the right niche for the Mete and know it has an impact on Athanor/Tatara as well, and want to make sure these feel like they have a fulfilling and valuable space too. No clear answers here yet other than we want to make sure we tend to this one as well. I'll take a note of this for future discussions

[stiff cradle]

you dont have time for this

you have to fix mining ASAP and then work on the other stuff

lots of reports of people going from 6 subs to 1, if you dont get some momentum going they will go to 0

[crimson cargo]

Just slow down. Okami isnt trawling the code himself. He is directing the people who do. We've wanted clear and direct communication for a long time and we have it now. Dont ruin a good thing.

[stiff cradle]

talk is cheap

[crimson cargo]

Then stop doing it

[stiff cradle]

CCP?

[crimson cargo]

You

[stiff cradle]

why

[crimson cargo]

"talk is cheap"

[valid rivet]

chill my dudes. 🙂

[stiff cradle]

they cant be spending 12 months fine tuning mining

or maybe they can

[long tide]

People will go from 6 subs to 1 to 0 then back to 1 and then 6.

Eve is a long term game, not a short term one.

Ccp makes a change. Waits and sees how it affects things, then makes another change

[stiff cradle]

what do you mean

[long tide]

Any change to isk income, mining, stuff like that is going to cause a sudden change in the system. But itll take months for that change to level out or equalize

[stiff cradle]

sorry i dont know what you mean

Activities in EVE online should be enjoyable

[long tide]

Honey, enjoyable is subjective

[stiff cradle]

Not really

[long tide]

It is

[stiff cradle]

Not really

[long tide]

Some people enjoy the idea of 1b dread hulls. Others do not

Who is correct

[stiff cradle]

thats not an activity

[long tide]

Okay lemme rephrase.

Some people enjoy just fighting with dreads. Others do not

[stiff cradle]

you cant be serious

if fighting with dreads is not enjoyable there is something wrong with the game

[long tide]

Anyways, the core thing is, ccp will make a change that they/players want, wait to see how it affects the game economy, then will make more changes if they think those are needed (or players cry out loud enjoy)

[stiff cradle]

the economy takes care of itself

[long tide]

Not everyone cares to fight with dreads all the time. That is why i said enjoyable is subjective

[stiff cradle]

the important thing is that activities are enjoyable

just because you dont enjoy a specific activitiy all the time does not mean whats enjoyable is subjective

do you think anyone dont like sex?

[long tide]

Yes lol

[stiff cradle]

okay then

then we cannot have this discussion

[long tide]

What you enjoy, and what i enjoy are different

[stiff cradle]

sex is objectively enjoyable

[long tide]

Im sure someone somewhere would disagree with you.

What is enjoyable to one person is not enjoyable to another every time

[stiff cradle]

what is your point?

[long tide]

I dont enjoy mindlessly grinding away lvl 3/4 missions, yet there are plenty of people in HS who enjoy that

[stiff cradle]

what is not to like about missions?

[long tide]

Its repetitive and mindless. Its not fun to me.
Just like how i enjoy multiboxing accounts and mining. Yet there are plenty of people who play this game that have 0 desire to mine and do not enjoy it at all.

[stiff cradle]

do you understand that any activity will get boring after a while?

i mean if you do it too much

but since there are like a thousand people playing theres always someone doing any of the activities

people will cycle between them assuming they are enjoyable, and its the job of the games maintainer to make sure that is the case

[long tide]

I can promise you, there are plenty of people here who will refuse to touch mining. Because no matter what, they do not enjoy it

[stiff cradle]

there is a problem with mining if people dont enjoy it

[long tide]

No.

[stiff cradle]

yes

[long tide]

Not everyone is going to like something

[stiff cradle]

thats not true

everyone likes sex

for example

[long tide]

Youre just trolling at this point 🙄

[stiff cradle]

no you are

can you give an example of why someone dont like mining?

[long tide]

Nope. Cause im aware that not everyone is going to enjoy every activity. Its just not how it works

[stiff cradle]

what is there not to like about it

[long tide]

Because to them its boring.

[stiff cradle]

if mining is boring there is an issue with it

[long tide]

@alpine orchid @sour saddle
Do yall enjoy mining? Is it something you wanna do even if ccp buffs rock size/amount?

[stiff cradle]

be back later

[long tide]

Dude is just a troll at this point 😂

[alpine orchid]

I mined for isk
Not bc I enjoy it

It's boring

[stiff cradle]

thats a problem

[alpine orchid]

No some people enjoy it

Like don't get me wrong Friday night moons where great get drunk watch a movie with corp

Make a few b

Again to each his own
Some people work a stressful job and mining is a good way to turn the brain off for a few h

[stiff cradle]

only if mining is enjoyable

[alpine orchid]

This is cope and you are trying to intimidate ccp into something that they have the numbers for you don't

[long tide]

Again. You are trolling. Because only a troll is going to argue that every single person is going to enjoy doing the same thing as every single other person

[alpine orchid]

I play BL2 to turn my brain off

It's not really fun but it's a game I don't need to think about what I'm doing

[stiff cradle]

no you are trolling for misconstruing an argument

[long tide]

I enjoy chocolate ice cream. I do not enjoy mint ice cream.

[stiff cradle]

you cant even agree that sex is an enjoyable activity

thats a troll right there

[alpine orchid]

Eve isn't sex

It's a game

[long tide]

No level of changing the mint ice cream is going to cause me to enjoy eating it

[alpine orchid]

So let's compare apples to apples

And not Apples to lobster

[stiff cradle]

if your response is "its boring" and "its repetitive" when explaining why an activitiy is not enjoyable you have missed the point

[long tide]

Even comparing apples to lobsters, dude cant make the claim that every single person on earth enjoys sex 😂 cause again, not everyone is going to enjoy everything 😅

That is just a fact

[alpine orchid]

#1345010946590113893 message

Please train reading to 5

[stiff cradle]

how about you do

[sour saddle]

I dont mine and never have, but all the people who do mine in my corp have stopped doing it because the tedium is not worth the income, bring back rorq in space by fixing excavator and moving the m3 of rock into fewer but bigger rock so I can kill said rorqual

[alpine orchid]

^

[stiff cradle]

its not the ISK hour that is the problem

[alpine orchid]

No
It is

[stiff cradle]

no its not

a shitty activitiy with high ISK / Hour is still going to be a shitty activity

[alpine orchid]

If I could go back to 2-3 b an h in a rorq
I would use said rorq
If I make 600m an h Im not going to mine

[long tide]

I dont enjoy mission running. Like i said. I would only do it if the isk is astronomically high. However, just because im doing that, doesnt mean im enjoying it. I would solely be doing it because the isk is worth it. No amount of changes are going to make me enjoy mission running

[stiff cradle]

mining has become a shitty activity and somehow raising the ISK / Hour will not change that

[alpine orchid]

It always has been

[stiff cradle]

no

[alpine orchid]

Cool what mechanics have changed

[stiff cradle]

mining was easy to understand at some point and the minerals and ores felt sexy

[alpine orchid]

What mechanics of mining have changed

Out side waste being added and hurting isk

[long tide]

Okay, so how would you change mining to make it where Every single Eve Player would ENJOY mining

[alpine orchid]

What actually mechanics of mining have changed

[stiff cradle]

this would be a start. i think reading the explanations further in the thread is essential too. https://steamcommunity.com/app/8500/discussions/0/4416424268927930724/

[sour saddle]

its not tho

its the increase in tedium forcing the miners to move toward higher apm ships

[alpine orchid]

And more ship

[sour saddle]

there is less ships in space

not more

[stiff cradle]

"ISK / Hour from mining will always be in the lower end of the spectrum i think so its important to make it interesting in other ways. Like for example new Strip Mining drones, streamline the residue mechanic, and give the barges more fitting slots etc. for example. "

[long tide]

The tedium isnt around mining tho. Its waste, the inital iteration of compression (thank god they fixed that), needing a module to compress out on field

[alpine orchid]

You need more toons to do what a rorq used to do correct?

[sour saddle]

the person who use to run 10 rorqual changed to 10 hulks

but the apm is so bad that he downsized to 3

[alpine orchid]

William we are saying the same thing

[sour saddle]

no

you are blaming income

Im telling you icome is not the core of the issue

[alpine orchid]

And if you mine more does the income go up?

[sour saddle]

people dont mine more

the MPI is proof of that

people who want to keep the same income have changed activity

[long tide]

Tedium is the main reason however. You reduce that tedium to where its too easy. Then income becomes the reason. There has to be balance

[sour saddle]

the income is balanced by the market

and the indy change that protect us from the issue of just printing capitals and supers

[long tide]

Currently on LS anoms i can get 100-150mil/hr with 10 accounts, but i dont do that because its too tedious. If more people start doing that to where my income drops to 50-75mil/hr im not doing to do that because its not worth the isk/hr

[sour saddle]

thats balance in a healthy ecosystem

rn we are far from being in an healthy ecosystem

because income is not the reason why people chose or chose not to do an activity

[long tide]

Its a back and forth motion yes. Go high people flock. Drop low people leave. It ebbs and flows in a healthy economy yes. But it needs some balance of tedium as well to help keep prices decent

[stiff cradle]

by the way people like burger and rattati have nothing to lose, they will stay on board and make bad decisions from now until someone fires them or the company runs out of money

Okami buys them some time

[alpine orchid]

I'm just going to say it again
You don't have all the information, all the statistics that the devs have. You are making statements based on what you see. Rorqs online were a problem. It needed to be fixed.

[deep spindle]

rorquals online was just as much of an issue as rorquals offlined

[long tide]

Yes, but balance is needed to not have either

[sour saddle]

And it got fixed with the industry changes

[smoky dust]

damn we got a new archivist replacement

[mild quartz]

It is a point of note that probably the problems involved are probably trying to change the game from a stat perspective.

As noted before the Rorqual changes...also dealt the Rorqual player a massive waste issue. [all mining drones + Excavators waste resources pretty bad.] So people swap down to the Hulks for pure speed. And with compression mechanics they can crush down alot of rocks...even playing around with jet canning.

If CCP wanted to...they could have just considered adding minerals as part of the steps of building subcomponents of the larger ships and then this would be a mineral soak.

But now the problem is the collection of certain minerals is a bit of a problem at the moment. Due to the Scarcity mineral changes in some of the rocks.

I know everyone is screeching about income...and trying to balance that. But, that isn't exactly a great way to balance that. And then trying APM balance the gameplay to penalize miners with tedium isn't a good way either.

But any major change will upset alot of people set in their own perspectives of the game.

[stiff cradle]

pretty much everything about mining in its current state is just an afterthought

i dont understand how there seems to be so little thought put into things, yet there is so much time between updates

[long tide]

Because any change that increases or decreases minerals or isk put into the game is going to have an affect on the ecosystem. CCP in all there wisdom and knowledge have to wait and see what affect that has and if it aligns with how they want the ecosystems to look.

[stiff cradle]

the economy will take care of itself CCP should focus on making the game enjoyable

we have crazy MPI and ship price increases... But people still play, its not a big deal

it will even out, meanwhile CCP should make sure the game is enjoyable

[long tide]

I enjoy it

[alpine orchid]

@stiff cradle when you quit bc ccp doesn't do exactly what you think they should do. Can I have your stuff

[shell turtle]

When talking about Equinox Okami said:

We also needed to consider the impact of individuals mining vs. groups mining vs. multi-account miners and try to account for a fair system that gives space for all types of participants.
But the newly proposed changes of making larger rocks seem to cater almost exclusively to multi-account miners. I know this is just the first set of changes but I'm hoping solo miners get some love soon because it is severely lacking in comparison.

[stiff cradle]

they should get rid of concentrated and dense veldspar and do the same for all the other ores and mining would be vastly improved

they would never do that tho

they dont understand the insane value in keeping things simple

[deep spindle]

If they make rorquals great again that is the single biggest buff a solo miner could get. Just park on a belt/moon and mine away.

Ping for help if tackled and hit panic. The solution is in front of us this entire time it’s the rorqual.

Turbo miners won’t care that a rorq mines as much as 2-3 hulks. They have 40 others it is a marginal gain for them. For the solo account it is an enormous upgrade.

[crimson cargo]

Do you really believe a 12b capital ship that takes 18 months to train ok skills for is "the solution in front of us" to fix mining for people playing solo?

Or was that a joke i didnt understand? 😛 If so, my apologies. If thats what youre really suggesting then: no

[shell turtle]

Not to mention the fact that needing a cyno on standby kinda removes the solo part

[mild quartz]

Well...solo in a group...but a pretty valid point.

[crimson cargo]

If youre in a group already, then a Hulk/Mackinaw is viable for single-box mining

Solo play is inherently done alone, no friends.

[mild quartz]

Well the Skiff...works to an extent in hot zones

but since the WCS changes...they tend not to be used as much in hot zones.

[long tide]

Increasing rock size is a buff to both solo and multiboxers

[crimson cargo]

Bigger rocks means lower apm. That indirectly benefits multiboxers

more

[shell turtle]

How?

[marsh osprey]

? lol

do big rocks turn into dust when small boxers use them like why is this a contentious point?

[long tide]

Larger rocks mean less apm for everyone, less micromanagement

Plus there isnt really any buff that you can make for solos that wont indirectly buff multiboxing at the same time

[shell turtle]

If you're solo you have to change rocks once every few minutes, if that's too much micromanagement for you then...

It's really only a problem if you have a bunch of characters and you're constantly cycling through them to switch rocks

[shell turtle]

Give solo miners access to compression and nerf mining boosts

Particularly the first thing nerfing boosts would take counterbalancing of course which is more difficult

[long tide]

Why tf would you nerf boosting. That wont solve anything

Nerfing boosting does not buff solo mining, thats a terrible idea and thing to do

[deep spindle]

it is literally impossible to buff solo miners without buffing multiboxing

every ship and pve balance made affects both

[shell turtle]

How does giving solo miners compression buff multiboxers?

[shell turtle]

If it hurts group mining then by default it buffs solo mining by bridging the gap. But also ideally a nerf to boosts would come with a buff to base rate of mining to compensate

[long tide]

It does not buff solo mining. It buffs your isk/hr because you nerf boosting, you reduce the amount of ore coming into the economy. You reduce the amount of ore coming into the economy you increase prices. Increase prices you piss everyone off except the small small percentage of solo miners

[shell turtle]

It does not buff solo mining. It buffs your isk/hr

So it buffs solo mining is what you're saying?

Call it what you want, I want to shrink the gap between the two, because it is far too large

[shell turtle]

Also another way, albeit far more out there, is a mining ship similar to a marauder. It can bastion to improve how well it mines and to compress, while preventing boosts, the same way bastion prevents remote reps. It would still mine less than a porpoise boosted hulk, but it would be an improvement for solo players.

[long tide]

Buffing isk/hr is not going to netf multibox minrrs and buff solo. Itll just give multiboxers more incentive to mine.

The only way you can truely buff solo and nerf multibox mining is by having a minigame or some shit that makes mining a truely active gameplay. Which no one really wants

[deep spindle]

Mini games are trash. Only reason explo works is because it makes enough isk that you don’t need to mbox it.

[long tide]

They are. If mini games were added to mining you can 95% expect the mining to cease

[alpine orchid]

Also the hacking mini game you can just brut force

You don't need to be good at it to get the rewards

[smoky dust]

zeugma go brrr

[deep spindle]

Zug zug

[sour isle]

Said it before I'll say it again stop trying to fuck miners with a cactus FFS with these NERF multiboxer ideas

[long tide]

People just dont understand why thats a bad thing trying to nerf multiboxers in this age

[shell turtle]

The reliance on multiboxing plays a large part in driving away new players from the game

[alpine orchid]

Here is the problem
Make Event
50m per toon per site max 5 people
What is a better way of getting isk
Run 5 toons and not get fucked over by someone and get 250 m a site or run with randoms and get 50m a site

Eve is a multi box game if you don't like the play style then dont do it

But most things scale with more toons
As long as that remains eve you will have people multi boxing

[long tide]

To play the game you dont need to have multiple accounts. Does it help? Yes. Is it absolutely or even partially necessary? Not at all

[lethal dawn]

Can we make it possible to just have 1 compression modules? or tier up, if you have a moon compression module, you can compress everything else below it.

[marsh osprey]

t2 compression module that compresses everything in the fleets ore hangars at the end of the cycle but is significantly more expensive than the t1 variant + requires compression lvl 5 would be nice. would encourage indy command ships to stay in siege rather than pulse it. big quality of life increase for miners and more potential content for pvpers.

[stiff cradle]

thank you for talking

looking forward to the next talk

[crisp magnet]

This would be nice, I support this

[red glacier]

spot the boxer 😉

I could get behind it tho, if that were limited to Rorquals, and had a longer cycle time, that maybe scales with the number of ships in compression range.

[heavy crane]

not just multiboxers, think about the mining escalations, you cant compress mercoxit and regular ore at the same time

and also rorqual drones being like fighters may help with anti-multiboxing idk

stops rorqs from mass multiboxing, but doesnt make it overly tedious for solos or small level multiboxers

[long tide]

You arent going to make mining anti-multibox. The only thing ccp would do is make a ship hull harder to multibox

[nimble wedge]

Do we know if/when patch notes for next week will be released?

Tried a search, couldn't see anything about it

[long tide]

Patch notes will be released when the patch happens

[nimble wedge]

I wondered if they might release some early, considering they're changing equinox space in some capacity again.

[long tide]

Doubtful. Okami already released the dev blog going over things. Meaning the next post should be the patch notes on the 12th

[nimble wedge]

Shame, I'm really interested to hear the power/workforce for the T3 upgrade.

[heavy crane]

its less about anti multibox, just rorqs a little higher apm, so it doesnt get to large scale rorq multiboxing

[long tide]

Wont get to large scale rorq mining now because of their waste

[heavy crane]

well they want to get capitals back into mining, so i imagine theyll rollback some of the nerfs to rorqs

they just dont want mass multiboxing rorqs to be a thing

[fossil stratus]

Patch notes will be out on the 12th at roughly 11:00 UTC (along with the patch)

There's nothing that will break existing Equinox stuff, and for any workforce/power adjustments we do know people need time and will have advanced info about that as much as we can

[nimble wedge]

Thanks - to clarify, are T3 upgrades coming next week? If able to confirm of course 🙂

[fossil stratus]

Yup!

[nimble wedge]

Thanks very much! Looking forward to it 🙂

[opaque kiln]

Requesting Mutaplasmids for mining equipment 🫡

[scenic raptor]

yes I'd love to be able to roll mining modules

[nimble wedge]

I'd like to see Harvester implants get a rework... Range is nice but for what they give they're not worth the price tag!

[mild quartz]

Yeah honestly...they should give some variations of benefits.

Ironically its the only implants that upgrades the range of gas collectors and ice mining lasers as well.

Just the same issue...mining drones optimal range can be boosted by the Hydra implants.

But if we are going to discuss that...please look at the CPU penalties

of mining upgrades

[next axle]

whats the deal with Multi boxed Fleets?

the Cost vs reward Per Pilot with Omega costs are still the Same

Multi-Boxing did get a big Nerf when Alpha Accounts got restricted to running one account at a time.

Solo Miners don't get the fleet boost unless they join a feet.. so thats not really a comparason

[unkempt yew]

I would love more /better mining implants, because it’s hard to even justify using Harvester Implants over basic +5s. Especially since boosted laser range can outright exceed lock range lol

[long tide]

N+1 scales. The more you have, the easier it is to acquire more isk/hr

[next axle]

Nope.. Not Buying that one...

Costs and rewards Scale together
IE Omega Time and Training.. and Complexity of Managing N+1 accounts..

the same for multi players vs Multi boxer matching similar Fleet..

N+1 tips the scale when there's a mismatch eaither way

if anything Multiple Players matching the same fleet a Single multi boxer has have a greater advantage through team work

it's a matter of play styles... Unless the argument is Limit ALL players to a Single account at a time

[next axle]

there will always be a someone unhappy in either camp with an argument that doesn't really go anywhere

[long tide]

As a solo i cant run FPs, with a fleet of 12 i can run a FP and make 1.2b in isk and upto another billion in loot.

Mining, solo i can only use a single ship, get less than 100mil/hr. Multiboxing i can run a booster + miners and make over 100mil/hr per char.

N+1 makes things easier no doubt

[sour isle]

CCP is really missing out on some implant sets for miners

[next axle]

so in other words...

A solo player joining a fleet can make 100M/h by compressing all that ore him/herself?

I've seen Multi Box Fleets allow other players join in for boosts

[long tide]

If you have the right ship/fitting and are mining high valued ore, then yes.

Ive let numerous of my friends join who use single or 2 accounts. They mined in similar ships to me and also got solid isk/hr

[latent girder]

Costs and reward don’t scale together because you have a boost character. so more characters is always better if the site is big enough. (Adding another character increases the iph/character but the cost/character remains the same.)

[alpine orchid]

1 barge mines x
1 barge + links mine 1.3 x
3 barges with links mine 4x
6 mine 8x

That's the simple version

[next axle]

In other words.. a Bigger FLEET increases the Isk Per Hour...

I still fail to see the Difference between Muti Box vs Multi Player.. Its the Same Argument

[alpine orchid]

There is none but people want something to complain about

[next axle]

Now that I do agree with 100%.. Thats why I think the Multi Box Argument it self is a Catch 22 when you boil off the excess and see what the guts are

doesn't help the game ubless the game os PvP drama with out balance

[alpine orchid]

It's easier to point blame at something then admit the problem is something else. ie enomes are shit, one guy multi boxes that enom it's his fault instead of why is there so few enoms or why are they so small that 6 toons clears the site in 30min

¯_(ツ)_/¯

That's my take after reading most of the comments here

[next axle]

Then I met my goal. I've heard that Multibox thing for close to a Decade.. Each time I've heard it the argument never changed till I realized once to do a Fair Comparason between a fleet of the same type Pleyer vs Multiboxer.. the N+1 thing applies to Bothe camps and therefore really is a Bad Arguemtn unless you want to Argue because you can.. Other wise the "problem" has on solution.

[long tide]

I'm not making any arguments. I'm just stating N+1 makes life in eve easier

Whether it be multi-person or multi-account. N+1 makes almost everything scale much better

Than solo

[warped vault]

@waxen crypt Would you be able to tell us a bit about the general composition of the new T3 anoms? or is that a "wait for the 12th" kind of thing?

[long tide]

Wait for the 12th

[marsh osprey]

what about seeding the t3 anom bpos before the patch so we can install them before DT on the 12th?

[heavy crane]

This is good idea^

Also do we know the power grid/workforce need yet?

The T2 requirements are already pretty large

Also is the flipping on and off of upgrades being introduced on the 12th also?

[deep spindle]

iirc 1800 power 18k wf

or something lkike that

i expect them to get dialed down

in another week

[heavy crane]

I’m hoping for like 1600 power

[long tide]

Unless it was talked about on a stream, dont think that info is out yet

[deep spindle]

i expect t2 pushed below 1k and t3 to hit 1200-1400

eventually

not next week

but like next month

[heavy crane]

We hope

[deep spindle]

only change i didn't see coming was the hictor cynos

that came out of left field

[heavy crane]

Problem is for something like ADMs, ratting is essential, so even if it’s not good ratting, some is still needed

[heavy crane]

Same

[deep spindle]

don't think ratting will be affected

more of a brining mining up to ratting level

cuz you can mbox 5 storms and make an ass load more than 5 makcs

[heavy crane]

What I mean is that if I put a lvl 3 upgrade in, then I hopefully can still fit a little ratting in

To keep ADMs

[deep spindle]

oh yeah

i think we will just get minors upgrades

[heavy crane]

Minor 1 upgrade is stupid slow for ADMs in worse sec space

[deep spindle]

for newbro vexors

[marsh osprey]

its at the top of the thread in okamis note things

[heavy crane]

Oh man that’s rough

Spacing is ok between upgrades but I think the T3 is a little high

[deep spindle]

Yeah

Should be adjusted down eventually

Easier to start it high and lower it than vice versa

[mild quartz]

Agreed...and the problem is specializaton for mining players.

Right now if you look at what is available.
Harvest...which only increases range of all mining equipment.

Michi and Mining Yield....nothing else.
Yeti...Ice Mining Only
The Alchemist...Gas Mining Only.
And Mining Upgrades.

You have four implants on the 10 slot...that compete for that slot. You can create a specialized jump clone with only 1 of the 10 slot items...but you can combine with Michi on Slot 7. [Mostly for ORE mining]

Mining Upgrades...oh do not get me started on the headaches induced by the mining community having an uphill battle with inbuilt "PENALTY" mechanics.

[warped vault]

@waxen crypt o7 can you PLEASE tell your marketing team to start crossposting these instagram reels about the new update? Yes, Instagram is better for the younger audience - but hell, at least half the people that would actually care about this information are not the younger generation!

( but also not joking)

[mild quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/betty-white-cheers-salute-shots-drinking-gif-2213666948687721228

Although I will argue that using Social Media...other than Marketing...is kind of umm...questionable.

[deep spindle]

Skibizi rizzz Ohio update 10000

[long tide]

Its not. Because social media has a hell of a lot more reach than just a website dev blog

[mild quartz]

IF...it is a coordinated and cohesive PR operation.

What I am seeing looks very disjointed.

[long tide]

Theyre using instagram. There is nothing disjointed about that

Using insta to promote the upcomping change and tease what is going to be apart of it

Like i said elsewhere. Ccp should just go back to no communication since all players can do towards them is bitch 😂

[prisma orchid]

yeah kinda

but sometimes they mess shit up so no wonder

[waxen crypt]

What kind of information would be helpful right now? I'll see what I can dig up. Just mineral composition of sites in general? Afaik they will be fairly similar to the other tiers focusing primarily on a primary "focus" mineral, with a bit of others sprinkled in.

[waxen crypt]

Definitely! We're learning with these and I can see them being more broadly shared in better ways in the future.

[tired gazelle]

@waxen crypt any plans re-touching the regular nullsec Asteroid belts (Arkonor/Bistot source)?

[tranquil stirrup]

Advanced Patch Notes? 😄

[marsh osprey]

survey scan from the warp in would be nice and a picture of the site from the warp in as well

[halcyon spoke]

They are all posted ont he forums and embedded so you don't have to use any social media....https://forums.eveonline.com/t/march-12-major-update-dev-chats/478917

[warped vault]

not mineral composition but rather ore composition. even just ballpark numbers of m3 of the different ore types 😛
an idea I was given was a survey scan and picture of the sites

[warped vault]

perfect!

[warped vault]

That's true, but it took until after the last one posted to instagram for them all to be collected 🤷‍♂️

still doesn't feel like great communication to me

[halcyon spoke]

learning experience for everyone

[warped vault]

oh for sure

i'm just trying to provide feedback 😄

[halcyon spoke]

you guys keep whining and they will go back to no information....be careful what you get mad about.
i voted for MySpace but told i was old and move over Grandpa.

[warped vault]

haha i'm not actually whining about this... although in hindsight I can see how it came across that way.
just want to provide feedback 😄

[halcyon spoke]

wasn't calling you out exactly, that is why it wasn't a reply - it applies to many many people

[glossy blaze]

Amen, I think it’s great they’re communicating and trying new platforms. No tiktok pls.

[thick drum]

@waxen crypt why are we reducing BPO materials/minerals? This reduces content by reducing mining and exploration. Simply increasing the spawn/drop rate of the exploration sites (Ghost Sites) would solve this and provide content for players. Likewise the anom changes should help to reduce mineral prices and this can be addressed further as you monitor? I would like to see more players in space and reasons for that?

[marsh osprey]

increasing supply vs cutting demand would be optimal

[somber temple]

The whole point of increasing commodities involved was so they’d have more nobs to turn beyond just ‘introduce more supply of x thing’

Part of it was so they could reduce some things later while tuning other balances

[thick drum]

while this is correct it does not address the point i ask?

[warped vault]

no, it does not reduce content, because it makes the big toys cheaper which makes more people likely to buy them (and then field them) thereby creating more content

in addition, more people buying makes more demand for such toys, which increases demand for the minerals and exploration mats in question, which increases the price for those things (offsetting the reduction in price due to the reduction in BPO costs)

[long tide]

Its going to take a few months before anything settles. Until then things are gunna be uncertain for whether or not mining is as valuable as it has been

[tranquil stirrup]

Mining Isk Per Cycle will certainly fall, probably Isk Per Hour too. But Isk Per action shoudl be massively improved for us 🙂

[prisma orchid]

Ya
Less rock switches

I will watch the vids in the blogpost and see the rest
Whatever they may share

[long tide]

As a LS miner i didnt have to switch much. Overall i suspect this is just going to decrease the value of mining. Which is fine because that means cheaper ships.
Just curious if its going to be a significant reduction or a minor reduction for LS mining. Since we dont get consistent spawns of whatever mineral we want

[prisma orchid]

Well ccp may fix that too

[long tide]

Only way LS mining will get fixed is if we get to keep a LS heavy ore.
NS ore might be less mineral dense than LS but consistently getting 15-25m3 per site daily will drive prices down regardless.
We will just have to wait and see what happens

[prisma orchid]

Ya

[long tide]

Granted, im happy ccp is doing some QoL updates. Potentially going to kill what ive been enjoying for a while but alas. Such is in an ever evolving game 😂
Keep it up ccp. QoL and balance patches + content releases means EvE wont die just yet 🤪

[sour isle]

do we actually know how they are making T1 caps cheaper id imagine making them need less FTL interlinks and the nurolink protection cell cheaper to make or less cap parts are the only options that dont make supers cheaper as well

[opaque kiln]

They said they are reducing material costs

[sour isle]

so mineral cost for cap parts or cap parts needed

[long tide]

No idea

[warped vault]

in my opinion - it will roughly balance out the value of mining, but decrease the cost of ships.
decreased cost of ships and decreased value of mining initially
but then decreased cost of ships will increase demand for ships
driving demand for minerals back up, which increases value of mining again
without increasing price of ships back up because even if the minerals are the same price you now need less of them

[long tide]

Correct, but also need to factor in the reduced cost for T1 BS and T1 caps. In the end itll all be fine

[warped vault]

Yes but that's my point
see

decreased cost of ships will increase demand for ships

(when I said ships I meant specifically BS and Caps because those are the only ones getting cheaper in terms of minerals/mats needed)

[smoky dust]

very similar to jevons paradox

[prisma orchid]

Ye cheaper shit means while we initially lose on profit, high demand will get stable and still high prices

Simply cuz people will throw shit on each other all day long

Just buff rorq excavs or make a capital drone miner with sentries or something

[tranquil stirrup]

@fossil stratus @waxen crypt is it worth getting another extract such as this for response to the new patch notes? Or should we continue to add new threads here?

[waxen crypt]

Lemme poke Swift and we'll figure something out 🙂

[tranquil stirrup]

I don’t know what these little thread generator channels are called 🙂

Should probably look it up lol

[waxen crypt]

I think it's actuall a "forum"! Talking to folks about it and we'll figure out a space for it. For now feel free to jot down some notes somewhere and once we figure a space out for the conversation we can jump in there.

[somber temple]

I think the most disappointing thing is carriers remaining significantly more expensive than dreads despite remaining fairly more niche, unless some kind of further change to carriers is coming, even with the component build material reductions I’ve some concerns that carriers are going to remain sidelined for most things

[fossil stratus]

Hey! A great idea @tranquil stirrup, we'll create an expansion feedback thread soon™

[next axle]

Did we get the bigger rcoks? My Coffee deprived head doesn't see it..

[deep spindle]

T3 anoms aren’t in yet. Sites that respawned at DT haven’t hit yet.

Otherwise yes

[next axle]

How about Asteroid belts specifically

[long tide]

asteroid belts dont exist in NS

(no they didnt get changed, only the Sov Belts)

[next axle]

<doesn't care about Soverign Crap in Null>

[long tide]

Sorry not sorry to disappoint, but this update was for Sov Mining. Not asteroid belts

[next axle]

Ah ok.. Thats fine

[long tide]

Hence the discussion around T1, T2 and the new T3 belts

[next axle]

No worries.. Coffee finally kicking in. THough the Sov stuff does sound fun.

So @waxen crypt NO Cookie for ignoring Non Null Rocks

[long tide]

Thats also being looked at. In a future update

Okami stated multiple times, the first round was focused on Sov belts

and more to come for the other areas in the future

[next axle]

I'm just jealous Nulls getting all the TLC.. I'm sure the other reasons will BALANCE out at some point.. just hope sooner then never

[waxen crypt]

Hey, I did say I will get to other parts of mining in space once Null cools down a little 😄 We will get there!!

[next axle]

And you will he Held accountable for that promise 🙂
But seriously.. Good job so far

[waxen crypt]

Hahaha I anticipate it.

[heavy crane]

is the ability to have offline upgrades not affect power coming soon?

i had seen it was coming i just wasnt sure the timeline of that

great patch by the way

[somber temple]

I would like to emphasize the difference between SovNull and NPC Null

[waxen crypt]

Totes!

[waxen crypt]

It will be out with the summer expansion (date to be announced 👀)

[heavy crane]

Thank you!

[long tide]

Making LS great again coming soon to a summer near you?

[waxen crypt]

Can't wait to rejuvenate it!

[long tide]

Can we get an isk faucet like pochven 😝

[heavy crane]

Will whatever changes/additions to capital mining be in that update as well? or is that farther down the line?

[waxen crypt]

I could see us potentially doing some ship balance related things, depending on how this current Update goes, but most of my future facing stuff will likely happen post summer expansion. Of course I'll tell you guys as soon as I can be more clear and specific about it all 😄

[waxen crypt]

Sure why not? 😉

[heavy crane]

ok, are there any plans for changes to capital mining? new ships, buffs to rorqs, ETC?

[waxen crypt]

Can't talk about it just yet 🙊

[heavy crane]

nice

[heavy crane]

fingers crossed for the winter expansion

sounds like a fanfest announcement

[heavy crane]

Why does the ore deep core miner require a T2 for the trade instead of a T1 like all the others?

[thick drum]

not sure if this should go here but the warp speed has changed ships ability - the Yacht has now reduced align time

[lethal dawn]

because the deepcore is t2?

[heavy crane]

there are deepcore T1s

for the frigates, which is what this is for

[lethal dawn]

deepcore miner or strip?

[heavy crane]

miner

i guess for the strip miner it makes sense, but idk about the regular miner

[halcyon spoke]

you have been hangin out with @fossil stratus too much 🤣 😎

[undone grove]

Why is the deep core ore strip mine not equal like the ore strip miner in terms of m3 mined if compared to the t2 version.

Also a question but ccp is aware that the mercoxite rig dont apply on it and thus making it tge worst option and not like the normal strip that equals to the t2 with b1 crystal. So its not the best but also not the worst on normal ore but the new one is the worst.

Mostly since nobody did spreadsheet at ccp hq or did not know there is another thing.

BTW when crystal for ice mining, ea flavor another crystal. Tope ice = crystals for tope ice, strontium main needs stront crystals etc.

Would stream line it with ore

[heavy crane]

I didn’t understand most of this, are you saying the medium Mercoxit rig doesn’t affect the ore deep core strip miner?

[undone grove]

Yeah it only works on the one with crystals

So if you dont run the rig the ore deep strip is equal to the normal ore strip

[long tide]

Fiarly certain CCP said they were looking into that

[undone grove]

Yeah the point I wanted to make is likely nobody did think about it

That it dont follow the same patterns and ccp rolled with it

[long tide]

Shite happens. Either they will fix it or they wont. Like I said tho, fairly certain that is known and being looked into

[undone grove]

I mean take ice, the normal ore you got some choice with the t2 about waste and mining amount.

With ice the t2 dont offer a choice

[long tide]

cause its not needed?

[undone grove]

I mean i would love to waste the non tope ice tbh

And get a faster respawn

So i would love a version like the b2 crystals

[long tide]

T2 already has waste. Why complicate a system that doesnt need it

[undone grove]

Was referring more to the question of the one i did replay on, why it needs a t2 for handing in.

Hapoend and we see if ccp steamline things or not

[long tide]

You dont want isotopes then just dont mine that ice. Or mine it and sell it

[undone grove]

I want the isotope one and not the others and to mine it is a waste of time. This means it takes longer to despawn and respawn. Besides that most atleast null dont allow cherry picking so your stuck with if you want to mine you need to mine all types which would be dope to have a option to rip through it more.

The waste of time is simply due to the size of the stuff even Compressed its only 1/10

While all other stuff is 1/100

So when you have to move it to sell or toss not wanted ice on a Buyback or jita you end with (-30)-(-50)% of the value

I mean another idea is to reduce the m3 on compressed ice so its not that expensive to move and sell

[long tide]

eh I dont think its a big enough issue for CCP to warrent dev time to

beyond just adding more skills then giving you the option to waste a belt away which I feel like most people dont do and is just a very specific group of people, I highly doubt this is something thatll get addressed any time soon

[undone grove]

sure a crystal might be work but to change the compression ratio (i hope) is not so much and definitely a qol for ice mining and selling

Additional it would make all Compressed stuff 1/100 of the size of the uncompressed

[long tide]

I doubt the compression ratio will get looked at either

[undone grove]

I doubt it too but i can hope and maybe ccp needs some qol ideas

And for some reason its bot much work and they can do it whenever jita is burning and they have to calm the miners down again 😂

[undone grove]

🤝 The Medium Mercoxit Mining Crystal Optimization I has been renamed to Medium Deep Core Mining Optimization I and now provides a bonus to all Deep Core Miners rather than just Mercoxit Mining Crystals specifically. This will still mean that Deep Core Miners will mine less than standard strip miners for regular ore, but now the bonus will be applied to the new ORE Deep Core Strip Miner which can’t load mining crystals.
Localization:

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-bullish-car-kid-kids-gif-27338537

The ore deep core is now also inline

❤️ Okami for adressing it

[heavy crane]

Any chance we could get the ability to put multiple of the same upgrade in a system for mining upgrades?

If I can put 2 lvl1 mining upgrades in, I'd rather do 2 of the same so I can chain the resource I need

[prisma orchid]

For privately owned home systems, yeah its good
As small anoms are... small, but you can have 2 in a system if it can fit a t2 upgrade
And their short respawn (instant) means you can keep mining them
Unless u swarm em with a rorq and alts
Then it will be gone before the 1h respawn

[heavy crane]

2 lvl1s is 900 power grid vs 1220 for lvl 2

[prisma orchid]

yeah

[stable dove]

CCP,

Feedback About the Recent Patches:

• AIR Career Nerf: Excellent! Not intended to be farmed like that.
• Sov Anom spawn timing: Excellent change. It’s not fair that site respawn “resets” at downtime.
• Ansiblex Changes. Yes! This drives more content!!!
• Eos Nerf. Good change. The Eos could project well and tank well. A powerful combination.
• HIC cyno. If you want to encourage the capital escalation cycle, this is how you do it.
• Burst Jammers. Excellent change. Those mods were cancer.
• Pirate FOB buff. Good change.
• Complex multiplayer reward nerf. Thank god!!!!!! Obviously, these plexes were used by multiboxers because they paid well, but it was just SO annoying to try to organize people to fight 5x Algoses.
• Fleet improvements. All changes were excellent.
• Resetting PI Extractors. I’m indifferent about this change. Yes, it’s now less annoying clicks to manage your PI. However, this just means less labor is required for the same result. I’m thinking the market will correct itself over time to lower the reward for doing PI.
• Reducing the costs of T1 battleships. Excellent change!! I’ve been asking for this for a while! It makes no sense that T1 battleships cost way more than a T2 cruiser. Hopefully this allows more newbros to live dangerously and make silly mistakes with battleships. Hopefully it also allows veteran pvpers to play with fun battleships setups and not be afraid of losing them. In general, I support changes which lower the cost of ship hulls and rigs, as these never appear as pvp “drops”. A re-allocation of total ship cost to module cost as apposed to hull cost is a boon to pvpers.

• Reducing the cost of T1 and Navy dreads. So, it appears that dreads continue to be the most “cost effective” capital escalation solution. I wish, when it came to a fight over an important objective, that caps didn’t always need to be involved, but as for allowing more people to be involved in impactful fights, this is excellent!!!! If there’s a sign in Eve that said “you must be THIS tall to ride the ride” it would say: “you at least need to be able to fly a dread”. Previously, it was much worse. That sign said “bro, get a titan or you won’t really matter in this fight” until the titan nerfs happened. Now however, with this change, T1 dreads get EVEN cheaper. Meaning this lowers the minimum requirement for someone wishing to truly contribute. However, I think we just accentuated the issue with plex prices being so high. If dreads continue to be the optimum ship to fly, that’s what’s going to be multiboxed. And you can multibox more dreads for the same price as a titan. I’m fine with that though, as this is a good solution to change what that sign says.
• Needlejack spool-up timer. How roaming gangs can disrupt nullsec needs further refinement. I agree that ships shouldn’t be allowed to just teleport away at a whim, but it’s difficult enough as is to organize a nullsec roam. My experience was that it’s kinda a kamikaze mission because there isn’t any easy way home if you need to log off for the night.

About The Tweaks to the Economy

This requires a deep dive. I think I need to create a new post in the parent channel.

In Summary

Overall, the last group of changes have been very good. I have a positive outlook that our devs are trying their best to do an excellent job.

[mental ermine]

Adding my little feedback, new changes were for some interesting by changing the pvp gameplay.
Although, I think if you investigate on the price of mercoxit currently (30%off from avg price years before / volume increasing a lot ofc due to the mining upgrades thing) it became for "simple" miners clearly non profitable comparing to the rest and to the "rareness" of the skills and ore type and let more the place to big miners with lot's of alt :/
Hope it will help
Thanks for your hard work anyway 😉
o7

[thick drum]

Not sure if this fits here but looking to know if you can fit both p/w and w/p upgrades together.

Second question on upgrades is do the exploration stack like mining anoms

[clever ridge]

@waxen crypt the last paragraph of the in focus that talks about how omega pilots will get double the SP reward for doing the AIRs what does that mean for those of us that have completed it already?

[dusky imp]

No you cannot. the Power and Workforce upgrades are mutally exclusive

[thick drum]

Thanks

[woeful saddle]

What about 2-3 upgrades for workforce?

[restive wyvern]

also no, jsut 1