#Realistic Rainforest <> Taiga Biome

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pseudo viper
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(space limited to 1000 chars discord post) re: placed/configured feature tree density relative to villages.

To my knowledge the only available function implemented by the official vanilla server is to scan the X,Z radius +/- 15 blocks wide then per block scan vertically for a matching block again IIRC +/- 15 blocks in height. This would be 31*31*31 or 29791 (?) blocks scanned per comparison block inclusive from a list such as cobblestone, mossy, planks, path, bell, torch, wall and so forth with regard to for example identifying Taiga village proximity.

Is there no way to reduce this expense to a single sqrt() per bell? Ideally each 16x16x16 sub-chunk would contain a list of overlapped bounds, spherical or otherwise which in the best case scenario would reduce the true cost to some multiple or approximation to one sqrt() call per placed feature. Given the availability of the true distance the density function defined in configured features could scale based upon that in configured feature.

rainforest_canopy.png
wary pilotBOT
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pseudo viper
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Years ago I got involved, well, more accurate to say I observed via IRC someone's musings in private chat with me about minecraft's worldgen. I pointed out that all the tree types are stunted or malformed by the default worldgen. I have a recollection of talking to either beta testers or active contributors about spruce and pine.

As an aside, incidentally I was asked by a Swedish fellow "I have a question where your expertise and experience is perfect!" and I suggested Spruce and Pine as being the most unique trees from where I live in the west coast rainforest. More common trees are the fir and mixtures of others such as alder, maple, arbutus and so on.

I've been able to sacrifice server-side efficiency of the worldgen by modifying the datapack json definitions for density and structure (placed and configured features.) Drawing back from the conversations in 2015 or whichever year it was I'm faced with the same problem the person I spoke to described. The inability to identify local structures and modify parameters like density when placing/configuring structures or features.

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This tree being a notable image sent in reply in ~2012.

P7220040.JPG P7220045.JPG
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Over 1 meters at the crown with fungal swelling, a typical, common-place tree from the region of some hundred years or less likely age.

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So the stunted shape of the trees while necessitated by the server-side expense of the default worldgen seems especially inappropriate for a coastal rainforest biome. This is also IIRC the primary reason Taiga was selected, quoting from memory "he said we ought to consider the overall amount of the coverage of the earth first before moving on to rare biomes that make up less than 1% such as coast rainforests."

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Likewise I haven't found any practical method to affect the density or biome types to ensure coast rainforest would appear in bands next to a sea, although it may be possible to achieve an approximation when developing the entirely new biome based upon worldgen parameters such as continentalness.

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My experience so far is despair and limitless frustration with what appears to be extreme limits to the vanilla server's functionality.

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Given the almost definite presence of a lava pool right under a house in every village I feel as if placed features are very unlikely to have any even remote capability to avoid placement there.

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"<villager> Dwaah! My house, it BUUURRNS!"
I mean, that was translated to Engrish here is a direct quote:
"<villager> Hmmh, Heugh, Hahmn."

sly vapor
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It sounds like what you want is mods, not data packs.

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Data packs (what this server actually deals with and is about) are fairly far removed from traditional programming. Depending on what you're doing you can borrow a lot of concepts from traditional programming, but you're still required to work and operate within the tools Minecraft gives us: JSONs and Commands. If you want to rewrite how worldgen logic works from the ground up, you want to make a mod and actually change the game's code. In which case you're in the wrong place

pseudo viper
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Yeah, but modding is quite distant from vanilla functionality. No I was hoping that placed feature actually had been updated with something like the ability to determine the distance from a bell as a variable.

pseudo viper
# sly vapor Data packs (what this server actually deals with and is about) are fairly far re...

It was from a conversation in 2015 or so, maybe earlier where we talked about it being impossible. I just hoped they'd added that basic functionality. With mods it isn't really just modding because optimizing it in the manner I imagine (which may or may not be the best and least expensive) would require completely changing the server's implementation in probably a non-compatible way. So modding the java vanilla server is probably mostly out of the question too.

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I honestly hoped I'm super stupid. In the ideal world I'm a complete dummy and just didn't know about the whatever function or something.

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Likewise, ideas related to it like using mcfunction functionality to make chopping a tree block swing the tree over and lay it on the ground, leaf blocks and all mostly intact to be further chopped seems totally impossible. In terms of complexity the actual method of using basic physics models and handling that for the blocks to move is very simple. It just becomes the stuff of nightmares trying to use mcfunction for it.

silk linden
pseudo viper
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That's the main reason, although not only reason the original trees are so stunted.

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I think notch wanted forests to be "scary places, like the haunted woods or something where you don't know where the mobs are and they just pop out from behind a tree."

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So they also had to balance worldgen efficiency, and that means placing leaf blocks on super short trunks 6 meters tall or whatever and tiny overall sized trees mostly.

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It was impossible to create a realistic forest on old CPUs and have the game work in solo play on a PC in 2012.

silk linden
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You can make easy realistic trees, even back then people made mods for this. It was an artistic choice (or lack of skill, idk)

pseudo viper
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It dramatically pumps the worldgen lag though and overloads the server bad. Like in my screenshot above running on modern octacore it's still horrid.

silk linden
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That's not because of just the trees...

pseudo viper
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No, but, just the tree datapack modding the configured feature for spruce alone does it.

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So whether it's a problem with the java implementation or what it is exactly, or conflicts with other worldgen features it still causes a huge problem which is why I think that's why they didn't release it like that.

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Being able to reach up the trunk to chop a tree was important as a factor too, and the huge oaks were proper sized trees ignoring that but they made them rarer.

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Climbing dirt blocks is sort of dirty.

sly vapor
pseudo viper
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Well, here's to them continuing on the path to take advantage of the coolest new processors available and the future improvements of it. One day I hope the current game is an "oldschool" flag you set in options for a new world and the new worldgen is way better.

wary pilotBOT