Runekeeper Dev Branch Megathread

[mystic heron]

If not, there is one other. Similar file in the same folder.

[mystic heron]

Wayward World 23 was the name of the save file.

So it should be correct. I hope. I just about spawned into the world.

[orchid flower]

that one loads

[mystic heron]

In my game it was crashing or not loading properly for some reason.

Could it be that they changed it already.

[mystic heron]

Not sure if it is the right one but it also crashes.

Should be the correct one, I hope.

After I broke the starter quest gear up.

I think I know how to reproduce the bug, too.

Start a new world in the runekeeper development branch.

Complete the first quest.

When Gear Up appears, drag an item into the equipment slot, or equip it into the main hand using the right click menu.

Open the quest menu again.

Now at this step, the quest did not let me complete it properly for me.

Instead going back and forth between quests and the quest menus a little, then I closed it.

Trying to move my character then, the world stopped working.

Seems to work.

Something about the quest right now does seem to crash the game.

[orchid flower]

again, it loads

oh, it crashes when starting quest is enabled

without it save loads correctly

[mystic heron]

It is the starting quest that crashes the world.

And I know how to reproduce the bug.

It appears.

[sturdy tusk]

Might be the same intermittent mod registration issue affecting things like item actions and item groups and options sections etc

There’s a lot of bugs like that that I have queued up for when I have time

[mystic heron]

You knew about it already?

[sturdy tusk]

I mean I don’t know if it’s the same bug

But mods have been having issues

[orchid flower]

maybe it is, but from my point of view they are different. Other mods freak out when you load them second time but starting quest freaks out even on first time

[mystic heron]

Maybe we can test the difference out a bit more.

[mystic heron]

The game still crashes because of the starter quest.

[orchid flower]

I would recommend disabling it temporarily

[bright summit]

How does the rune system work?

I presume doing runes = more peaceful creatures

[junior valve]

currently each rune type does different things
has a chance to temporarily pacify enemies in a certain range, chance rises with rune quality and Fanaticism, range with quality
(tries to) spawns a number of creatures in current zone, number of creatures increases with higher quality
does different things on different qualities, but all (potentially) change which creatures can spawn in current zone

[orchid flower]

expanding on runes: #wayward message

basically with enough of them you can force volcanic spawns on ice cap island

if you look into creature spawning conditions you can engineer zones that will only spawn specific creatures

[bright summit]

So if I want to farm leather I should spam

[orchid flower]

it depends

basically runs spawning code for your current zone few times and adds "Agitated" status to everything it spawned

[bright summit]

Interesting

[orchid flower]

if your current zone spawns creatures that have leather then yea, it will work

but there is "easier" way if you want high quality leather

[bright summit]

How to tell the zone?

[orchid flower]

best way is checking "zone civilization score" in stats or however thats called

just place one floor somewhere and start walking in straight line

at some point that civ score will change

this will tell you that you entered different zone

with this you an map zone borders

right now they are straight lines so its easy, but I heard that chiri wants to add some noise to them so it will get weirder

as for leather - do you want leather or pelt?

if its leather then it might be easier in the long run to travel ~50 islands away from spawn island and start hunting there

everything enemies will drop will always be exceptional quality

which means that if you disassemble some leather pouch you get as a random drop there will be good chance that most of the leather you get from it will also be exceptional

[bright summit]

50? Damn

That's a lot

[orchid flower]

yea, but if you relocate there then its only one way travel

and every drop being exceptional is super useful

[errant loom]

is it not 25 islands?

[orchid flower]

I think you said 50 some time ago

it was 40 or so, but it also depends on tactics etc

so +10 for good measure

[errant loom]

i checked it should be 25

[orchid flower]

oh, so its way closer

[orchid flower]

What are the recent changes in dev? There is nothing from Trello in #changelog

[winter dagger]

Every time I start a game, I get flashbanged in the face until I pause and resume it

[orchid flower]

I don't have that "feature"

[errant loom]

Ya, there's some strangeness on load for some reason

Space has been doing some memory stuff and leak fixing

[errant loom]

can you see if this happens if you disable the Steam overlay in the options?

[winter dagger]

It does nothing to me, but I noticed there's a chance this bug will disappear if I pause and resume or I open and close the windows menu a few times

[winter dagger]

Update: This glitch also disappears when I press any bound key

[errant loom]

this should all be fixed up in the latest update

@orchid flower have you had any memory issues lately?

i would be interested in what your js heap looks like after a long play session

or anybody for that matter

if this is like 2GB+, please "Take snapshot" and send our way (make sure to save the game first as it can take a really long time)

[orchid flower]

lately I have not been playing much wayward but I will try today evening (central europe here)

[errant loom]

cool, thanks!

[orchid flower]

Sorry, I was not able to play recently at all. Life kind of started crumbling away.

[errant loom]

no prob

[outer glacier]

@errant loom Sorry im not sure this is a bug it might be me mess up hotkeys but when i have in my inventory fishing net and try to use WASD it try to fish in direction where i try to walk. Is this a bug?

(Also sorry for ping)

[errant loom]

you likely have it set to auto use

[outer glacier]

When i craft or pick up new net it starts to do so. How i can turn it off?

[junior valve]

there should be an arrow icon above the action slot to indicate it is auto-use
it is toggled via a hotkey, which should be visible when hovering over the slot, or a checkbox in the action slot configuration menu

[outer glacier]

Thanks

[last ridge]

is this bug known? i don't know exactly what happened but these two milestones freaked out

[sturdy tusk]

Those were supposed to have been reset because they have different unlock requirements and a different effect, but I guess the save upgrade that resets them is broken somehow

[pallid pasture]

interesting

[native canopy]

I'm finally going to hop in to dev branch soon and try to help out (once I've made sure I got everything backed up, milestones included>_>)
What features, new and old, would benefit the best from another pair of eyes on them?

[native canopy]

I see this as one thing I can keep an eye on, but I'm all ears for anything else

[rapid socket]

Been getting desynced on dev branch multiplayer, would you like the log file?

[errant loom]

sure!

[errant loom]

the save too would be useful!

[rapid socket]

Log file is from my wife's PC since she's the one getting desync'd

[last ridge]

how do you make bronze tools on the dev branch? i don't know if the new smelted metal (v.s. the old smelting into ingots) is exclusive to this update but i've figured out how to make other metal tools, it's just not giving me the recipes for bronze ones

[junior valve]

some tools, bronze included, need SandCastFlask
though it seems the recipe is the same in Stable and Dev, with only difference being using SmeltedBronze instead of BronzeIngot
For example BronzeShovel needs components String, TalcumPowder, SmeltedBronze, and Pole, tools Hammer and Tongs, and doodads Anvil and FireSource

[junior valve]

#changelog message
Digging water to make it deeper now takes water from source
Does this mean that it now consumes water like routing, and it is no longer possible to make infinite water source by just slowly expanding one large enough to be routable?
Also how will it work on 1x1 bodies of water?
Will it make it deeper even though there is no extra water to consume, allow digging but not make it deeper thus potentially allowing infinite digging, dry up the tile, or not allow digging at all?

[errant loom]

I'll check if i can still exploit it with connecting a bunch of single tiles

[gusty rapids]

Wow, you guys, just checked the game after a while and was really pleasantly surprised to finally see that the performance has been fixed! Yeeees, finally I can play without any problems! Thank you so much!

The game now is smooth as heck, finally 😄

[errant loom]

good to hear!

[stark walrus]

On dev i have an item with 4 enchants (one skill increase) , when I use an orb the skill only changes every 3-5 try

[errant loom]

hmm

[stark walrus]

All other items worked fine

Doing a blacksmithing gear set

But only that one has 4 enchants

[errant loom]

if i had to guess it's trying to modify the other properties

what are the other magical properties on it?

[stark walrus]

Ah they are all not changeable

Ah nvm i have health potency

It changes

[errant loom]

hey, sorry to bug you again, but could you send your global save data?

[rapid socket]

[void whale]

Is there a list—or a way to check via debug—of what monsters will spawn in any given creature zone?

[junior valve]

for current zone, used in console in developer tools

[void whale]

Ooh, thank you

[outer glacier]

Well i have no idea what wrong here but it dont works

In a lot of places i cant drop stuff with that menu if there something presend on ground. Sometimes when something on ground i can drop it but later it stops work, more items on ground more likely i cant drom more with menu. Just droping with Q works well

[sturdy tusk]

Hmm that’s interesting, I wonder why that happens

There are key bindings for those drop all actions as well, maybe them? It’s Ctrl+Q to drop all items of type and Ctrl+Alt+Q to drop all items of type and quality, I believe

[junior valve]

I first though it was some weird bug that they cant drop stuff on an empty tile in front, but now I think that they have the drop setting set to drop only at the feet
I noticed this summer that when dropping items one-by-one, fewer items fit into the tile than when you drop all at once, with the latter fitting about 36 weight into normal tile like before
I dont think it was like that back in January
Not sure if it is a bug or some sideffect of dug hole having higher capacity than normal tile

[junior valve]

Testing now, 2 piles of stones (around 1 weight each) reached that point at 27.6 and 27.5 weight contained, dropping items one-by-one worked worked until the pile reached 35.2, but drop all as well as Drop hotkey when hovering over stack of stones did not, saying that there is not enough room
It might have been like that before, as I only really use Drop all of quality and Drop hotkey when hovering over stack
Maybe there is some difference how Drop and Drop all check if there is space in the target tile?

[void whale]

Do goats spawn in coastal areas in the current dev? I haven't seen any in any of the creature zones

[bright summit]

Yes

I have 2 in a costal peninsula right now

I do think goats are rarer in dev

[junior valve]

Goats seem to spawn only in Tier 2 zones on all but Ice Cap island, though only in 2 out of 4 possible daytime groups
you could try using common Rune of Chaos to reroll groups spawn groups in the zone, if it spawns Trapdoor Spiders during day or spawns Snakes but not Gray Wolves it should be Tier 2 on Coastal

[void whale]

Wait, there's more than one possible group?

[void whale]

Also, what do the various runes do?

[junior valve]

yeah, there are 1 or more groups of possible creatures defined for for specific times of day, layer, tier, and biome, while each while a zone has a large seed number it uses to determine which group can spawn
For example Tier1 Coastal on Surface can spawn [Slimes and Rats], [Slimes, Red Snappers, and Mudskippers], or [Chicken, Rats, and Mudskippers] during Daytime, and [Rats and Giant Rats], [Giant Rats], or [Giant Spiders] during Nighttime, and the seed is used to pick which group gets picked for each defined timeframe

[void whale]

Do those change during each time frame or at they fixed at world gen?

[junior valve]

the seed number is determined during generation and so what zone spawns remains static, but using Rune of Chaos re-randomizes it, along with other effect for higher than normal quality

[void whale]

Rune of Chaos being the one, or...?

[junior valve]

that is Evil as you can see from the emote name, Chaos is , Good is

[void whale]

Ohhhh

I've been calling Neutral this whole time

[junior valve]

I was too, and I believe in earlier version the Deity was referred to in code as Neutral too
yeah, old vs new

ItemType.RuneOfNeutrality]: ["rune of {$DEITY:NEUTRAL}
ItemType.RuneOfChaos]: "{0} of {$DEITY:CHAOS}"

Rune of Evil tries to spawn a number of frienzied creatures somewhere in the current zone, higher quality runes spawn more
Rune of Good tries to pacify creatures in a range around you, quality increases success chance per creature, range, and duration, success chance is further multiplied by Fanaticism of and Luck (x1 unless you took the Invoker modifier or changed in custom settings)
Rune of Chaos has different effect for each quality level, but all change current zone, from just rerolling spawn groups on normal, lowering Tier, increasing Tier, changing effective Layer, to changing effective Biome at Relic quality

[ocean jay]

what's this fanaticism stat I keep hearing about?

[void whale]

It's an enchantment you can get on equipment

[void whale]

The Q context menu, when performed facing an armor stand, an option to dump out the contents, but it's disabled as the menu says there are no items to dump out of the stand (it's currently equipped with a cap)

[void whale]

Also, does tactics not train while dual-wielding in dev?

[void whale]

...wait, hang on. Y'know how your botany skill makes fruit more nutritious? My leatherworking skill is making water more nutritious when it's in a waterskin.

[bright summit]

Wut

There great, I usually try to max out leather working asap so that's great news

[void whale]

It's definitely helpful, although I'm mentioning it here for the sake of reporting a possible bug

It seems even less like intended behavior than the way high-quality containers increase the crafting effectiveness of their contents

[errant loom]

it's a bug 😉

[bright summit]

Noooo

Can we at least lock chests?

[glacial thistle]

Hi, been playing the latest build on Steam Deck, and I feel like their is a memory leak somewhere. I have the OLED if that matters. I usually see the issue about 1-2 hours in: where once I move my character and it ticks a turn, everything on the screen is sluggish. And the turns take longer. Not like complete seconds of loading or something, but definitely noticeable in lag time vs when you first go into the game in the first several minutes in the game (the session). Very snappy and fluid.

Also, not sure if it’s because the logs get maxed out or something? Looking at them there is a reoccurring log spam?

Steam Deck gamemode
Stable Steam Deck branch: up to date

Mods:
Magicology
Oddmagicks
Tars

[errant loom]

thanks for the report!

[errant loom]

thanks for that by the way, if you have a chance to test again, let me know - i haven't spotted any issues in awhile

[glacial thistle]

Here is another log report. I was traveling back to my home island and during the timeskip the game started to hang. Did get an error from it.

[rapid socket]

That save desyncs right away. We played a new save for a few hours and so far so good.

[nova steeple]

gives me this error on launch tonight

game launches, splash screen, crashes at the news screen

[errant loom]

we are going to do a revert for that one

[errant loom]

thanks!

[errant loom]

when the game gets sluggish, can you take a look at the performance/memory for us?
if you look at the console (f10), and go to Performance:

you can record a bit of gameplay

you can walk around and play normally for like a couple seconds, then hit "Stop"

you can show is the results or export them

you are looking for bigger spikes like this, you can zoom in to see what is going on

the other one to look at is "Memory"

you can take a snapshot, but we can look at this after we look at the performance since it's likely not a memory thing

[glacial thistle]

Will do. I’ll do that when I play later today.

[errant loom]

let me know if you are still getting this!

[nova steeple]

yes, same exit code

[errant loom]

can you confirm that Steam has updated the game? you can use the verify feature

[nova steeple]

Yes, after a verify everything was there, it didn't need to download/update

[glacial thistle]

There a good method to share my Tracefiles with you? They're like 150mb

This log was from the F10, in its console log:

[zealous barn]

getting the same thing here

access violation at launch. shows the changelog screen, music starts playing for like 2-3 seconds or so, then crash

[zealous barn]

was bored, threw it into debugger. the crash happens inside greenworks, after call to SteamInternal_ContextInit .. i dont have symbols for this, dunno which function this is

[zealous barn]

disabling greenworks fixes the issue, game launches

[zealous barn]

this makes no sense. the crashing function seems to be setTimelineGameMode ... ???

[zealous barn]

oh, wayward has forked greenworks. spacetech last pushed it to github 2 years ago, i guess the timeline support is something he implemented, and it's lacking a null check in setTimelineGameMode. perhaps the timeline object is null and that's an issue

i guess i'll test the game again at a later date once you've fixed that

[errant loom]

can you restart or ensure your Steam client is up-to-date?

this uses a new thingy they just released

[zealous barn]

oh, it seems there's a new steam update. but your private fork of greenworks is still lacking a null check regardless 😛

no longer crashing

i guess i can test the game today afterall 😄

[zealous barn]

the decayed product tooltip still bugs, but in a new way...

hovered raw meat on an open fire, and kept waiting turns until it turned into cooked. within the SAME TURN it first said raw meat twice, then it said raw meat and cooked meat, and finally it says just cooked meat

[nova steeple]

hey, Steam update did stop the crashes

[zealous barn]

the tooltip got stuck on, shows up regardless of where i hover

unless i hover on top of the fire, in which case there are two tooltips for items

like this

[errant loom]

you can use something like https://filebin.net/

[bright summit]

Oh, just left and right click off to the side to reset it

[zealous barn]

the game feels very different. now that the reputation system is gone, it's no longer a goat petting simulator

[bright summit]

Lol

Goats are still goated

[zealous barn]

i still ended up collecting tons of maple seeds out of habit, dunno wtf i'll do with them now

goat petting in wayward was like stealth archery in skyrim. you just somehow ended up doing it every run

[bright summit]

Spruce seeds are better now
Resin is really good

I use maple for wood crafting and fuel really

[sturdy tusk]

I think edible seeds can be used to restore fishing spots

But idk how much everyone fishes now that rep is gone

[bright summit]

Fishing is early game supplements for me

[glacial thistle]

https://filebin.net/i5fa3h5z8bw13j2j

https://filebin.net/tvgg0rncdzdwtjkv

Cool, here they are, I did two of them. Tracefiles. Let me know if you want the memory one or not, because it's nearly a gig, so that's why I didn't include it.

Anyway, hope you can get something from these. Would love to get that sluggish thing solved on the Steam Deck. If it matters, I also have played on my Laptop, which is also linux: Arch Linux; and it doesn't ever get to a point where things become slow or sluggish. Maybe it's gamemode or something on the Steam Deck?

Anyway, need any more info or anything, let me know. Happy to help!

[errant loom]

thanks, could you export your save?

seems action slot related

[glacial thistle]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3365974769

Hope this export is what you meant. Also, I've played through a few other playthroughs with the same sluggish issue happening on Steam Deck. So, might not be entirely just attached to the save. Nonetheless, here it is.

[sturdy tusk]

that works! though technically you can export the save game as a file instead of to the steam workshop, and then upload it directly to discord

it's a bit easier for us to get the file directly, but we can use this too so no worries

[glacial thistle]

I rather give you the file directly, how do I do that then?

[sturdy tusk]

Should be the same button on your save game slot? You should have been given a prompt that asked if you wanted to upload it to the steam workshop or if you wanted to save it as a file

[glacial thistle]

Ah... that might actually be a Steam Deck issue then. I don't get a prompt at all, just goes directly to "publishing mod", then opens my steam to the file in the workshop. I'm in Desktop mode on steam deck right now, not gamemode.

[sturdy tusk]

Oh interesting

[glacial thistle]

Steam Deck always seems to have issues when it comes to opening prompts outside the game, whether in gamemode, or on desktop mode. Not just this game, i've seen it happen to other ones as well.

[zealous barn]

running away from enemies is incredibly easy now. i still remember having to kite mobs across the entire map, but now all it takes is a dozen steps or so and you're safe again

playing rouseabout game, hardly any armor and no medical items, but it's not an issue. mobs return back to their territory, and THEN THEY DESPAWN, so i just have to go sleep elsewhere and the mobs will be gone when i come back

aberrant bogling spawned in the base? no problem, just gotta sleep elsewhere, it wont be there anymore when i get back later

[errant loom]

ya, i wasn't sure about that to be honest

i might tweak that aspect

like slowing despawn a lot for things you've seen before

[bright summit]

And turning off despawn if you hurt it?

Like I don't want to head out of a cave then return to no Drake that I shot

[errant loom]

that one is already a thing

[bright summit]

Nice

Is the sling unique in that you can't use the off hand slot item?

[junior valve]

pretty sure all ranged weapons are two-handed (slings, bows, pistol), and nothing else currently

[zealous barn]

it looks like the spawns are based on the location as well. my initial base was far away from spawnpoint, and the place kept spawning boglings, zombies, imps, harpies ... sometimes aberrant. went back to the spawn area and i'm instead seeing rats, slimes, bunnies, chickens ... none of which i ever saw in the other location

earlier i dealt with a wolf in my base by taming it, dragging it far away, and waiting for it to untame itself and then i just went back home, never saw him again

not sure if it's my imagination, but running away from mobs in caves seems easier too

maybe it was always easy, but i was somehow expecting it to be more dangerous down there since i went without armor, but i've only once been chased by two mobs at the same time so far

it's still early game though, so maybe i've just been lucky

i do enjoy not having to max out reputation before going to caves

[zealous barn]

wait, caves have difficulty zoning too? this is too easy now lol 😄

there's almost no danger in the caves near the spawn area

[sturdy tusk]

yeah it'll take a combat update and dungeons before the game is difficult past the new player experience again

this makes balance a lot easier for future content and combat changes and stuff. so right now it's definitely in a state that makes it very easy and everything feel cheesable. but a lot of that should be in a better state by 1.0

sorry our development cycle is so slow though

[zealous barn]

the near-spawn caves are spawning a lot of giant rats and basically nothing else, which makes it super easy to farm for recipes for rouseabout modifier too. it feels like there's no challenge whatsoever, especially since the starting area caves generated tin ore too

anyway, this is an opportunity to expand the worldgen, too

you could have treasures/ruins/whatever that don't need map to be found, and are out in the open ... but guarded by a bunch of permanent enemies with a very narrow territory

in many fantasy novels, monsters are guarding some herbs or special trees or other interesting raw resources

[zealous barn]

huh, tooltip activated during saving 😄

happened while i was quitting the game, not an autosave

[zealous barn]

the current rouseabout is really boring, tho. outside starting area the mobs are very difficult to kill and it's a huge struggle since i cant craft much armor yet. inside starting area it's ridiculously easy. the main thing is, there's no incentive to go visit the dangerous areas more than once, and that's quite safe since nothing follows you back home

another thing, there's no in-world indicators about the area difficulty. you only find out once something actually spawns, and there doesn't seem to be any reason why some areas are more dangerous than others

that's going to affect endgame, too, as some places just aren't viable for making a base due to what spawns there, but there's no way to tell if the place is safe or not

it would be good to have ways to find out how dangerous the area is, and perhaps be able to manipulate it as well

these could tie together. perhaps surface terrain types could affect area danger levels, so landscaping could make areas more dangerous or more peaceful. there could be evil-suppressing statues, and breaking them would make the area more dangerous. perhaps certain unspawnable mobs could by themselves affect the danger level, so once you kill the boss mob the area turns more peaceful and dangerous mobs no longer spawn. this could make wisps more useful too, bring them to areas you want to turn safer etc

it'd be interesting if some mobs would ever only spawn if there was a permanent boss mob alive nearby, and it'd bypass all typical island type restrictions in that regard. so you could cage the boss, bring it home, and then surprise surprise you'd find new types of mobs spawning around your island

[sturdy tusk]

civ score reduces spawns

by quite a bit

it doesn't lower the tier of the area but it makes it much less common to get threatening stuff nearby

also the rune is for manipulating the tier of an area

i'm going to need another month or two specifically on polishing creature zones and runes and altars ux i think, but i have to wait until i can actually dedicate time to wayward again (which won't be till sometime next year)

we'll be launching runekeeper in almost this exact state

[zealous barn]

in my rouseabout game i haven't gotten anything that would increase civ score 😄

[sturdy tusk]

oh no

[bright summit]

No flooring or fertile soil?

[sturdy tusk]

some things i'd like to do for creature zones ux longterm:

• creatures are associated with special "decorations" that appear on tiles underneath the doodad layer, so a zone spawning particular creatures means you'll see decorations for the spawning creatures every so often. think spiderwebs in a territory that can spawn giant spiders
• a divination type specifically for finding the edges of territories and for determining the "tier" of them (should be added alongside the rest of the planned divination features — also requires me to make a change so that the edges of zones are wigglier instead of always being squares)
• island tier modifiers should appear in island tooltips

[zealous barn]

speaking of civ score, i used to make roads in earlier games, but then i got annoyed at merchants spawning on them, and stopped using floors on any outdoor areas. i still have no idea how to spawnproof areas properly either

[bright summit]

(it would be great if you could "research" items but had a chance of breaking said items

[zealous barn]

unfortunately haven't been so lucky yet. fertile soil has spawned along with scarecrows, though, but i dont have the recipes for prerequisites of either of them

ultimately my rouseabout run devolved into a quest of "let's mine down this mountain" and other stat increasing nonsense while waiting to get recipes for anything useful

not sure if it's even worth it. i should probably just wait a few months for any new stuff again

[bright summit]

Perhaps a self made challenge run?

Like you can only build/place in caves

Or you can't spend more than 2 days on an island

[vapid lichen]

wow this thread is long

[bright summit]

It's essentially #/general 2

[vapid lichen]

welp, i've no idea what's buggy and what's stable, so i'm wondering if i should just play stable channel instead, though i really like some of the changes outlined in dev channel. before i decide, are save files expected to break often when on the nightly channel? (and is there a way for players to fix the broken saves?)

[bright summit]

Kinda? I force an auto save before i properly save and that works

[vapid lichen]

are you referring to ctrl-s?

[bright summit]

I go to the auto save in the options, set it to minimum, and it saves in about 10 or so turns

[vapid lichen]

hmm, it seems my save file is just generally broken

are saves incremental? can i delete the folder?

i feel like i can't do that

oh well, it's joever

[sturdy tusk]

dev right now is in almost the exact state it will be when it releases. it's had months of stability testing and fixes

the only way to break saves should be loading a save in one version and then going back and loading it in a previous version

we always try to do complete save compatibility going forwards, so like, one dev version will upgrade cleanly into a later dev version

and we have save compatibility going back all the way to 2.0 (initial steam launch)

so any save from any of those times should load just fine in the latest version (which atm is on the dev branch)

what exactly is broken for you @vapid lichen? Does it say your save slot fails to load when you try to continue playing, or is it the game in general failing to load?

If it's the former, you can send me the save (click on the little up arrow icon on the save slot and save to local file, then just drop it in this chat or in DMs with me) and I can take a look when I have a min

[vapid lichen]

no, it's just failing to save. I'm pretty sure I created a new character and world. and saving was fine for hours. then the very last time I tried to save, it failed. I opened up the prior save (which would have been the most current since the last save failed to save). and then saving was fine again until like 10 minutes in, then auto saving started failing. I uploaded the log file in a thread, but already deleted my files on disk. I'll probably just uninstall, delete the folders, and start over and see what happens. I can't really guess what happened this time, I wasn't paying all that much attention

[sturdy tusk]

oh weird

i've never seen this before

no mods i assume?

[vapid lichen]

just the 1 internal mod

[sturdy tusk]

kk

i'll add this to our internal todo to investigate

[vapid lichen]

the backup saves are probably still there maybe if you want those

[sturdy tusk]

i did see the thread last night but forgot about it

[vapid lichen]

well, all these backups are binary

[sturdy tusk]

yeah our save format compresses the heck out of them

[vapid lichen]

and somehow highly compressible

[sturdy tusk]

oh it's still further compressible? that's interesting

[vapid lichen]

lmao

1% compression ratio

[sturdy tusk]

hmm

[vapid lichen]

probably data structures

[sturdy tusk]

our tech dev has put a lot of work into the save format and making it tiny but maybe there's something we're missing still

[vapid lichen]

#1307298028142596156 message

well, i imagine the save data is structured

but idk

[sturdy tusk]

yes but it's also already run through one compression algorithm

[vapid lichen]

it's probably due to the nature of backups

practically incremental data

[sturdy tusk]

mm yeah that's quite possible

[vapid lichen]

so to be very fair, i don't know if i had old game files from previous playtime

i switched to dev branch yesterday i think

though i haven't played in a while

are there any other files you might need?

or can i proceed to a clean install

[sturdy tusk]

you can feel free to clean install if you like yeah

[vapid lichen]

ok

[sturdy tusk]

sorry about the trouble

[vapid lichen]

no worries. thanks for the input

[errant loom]

@glacial thistle have you seen any performance improvements on the Steam deck as of late?

[sturdy tusk]

#changelog message if anyone has a chance, would love to know if this makes rune quality increasing a bit more comprehensible

[glacial thistle]

Don’t worry Drathy, I haven’t forgotten. I’ll be playing this weekend, so I’ll let you know.

[zealous barn]

first impressions: wtf?

i place 6 runes there, and then it displays in the bottom 1x that rune, and another item that i dont have with me. it's not obvious if clicking those bottom items will do something, and what they mean

i mean, i can hover them and they highlight, sort of suggesting they might be clickable

so the first things i did, obviously, was to click them, right click them, drag them, try to drag the other runes down in that area, try to drag other items down to that area, ... none of which did anything (except the last one just placed the item onto the altar container)

it isn't particularly difficult to figure out what they mean if you know that rune upgrade is a thing, but it really doesn't make any sense if you dont know

[zealous barn]

... i started to wonder if making it look like the trade UI would make more sense, but i couldn't remember what trading looked like and there are no merchants around in my current game ... and it looks like NOBODY has taken a screenshot about trading. nobody. clearly trading isn't a very exciting thing

[bright summit]

Trading is slow but it trains dexterity for some reason

[zealous barn]

minor annoyance: there's a book "A Powdery Catalog" that lists a LOT of recipes... however, i'm playing with rouseabout modifier, which clashes with this "discovery"

[bright summit]

Interesting

[sturdy tusk]

Looks like only put screenshots of it in our private dev discussion channel

I thought about adding a button and a label like the trade UI has but I kinda didn’t want to because it kinda takes away some of the fun figuring things out vibes

I do think the tab button for consecrate is pretty bad though because it only shows up if you’re hovering over the container panel

So I think I might just have to give in and add an actual button to the main ui

[zealous barn]

well, if your UI is gonna show exactly what the player is going to get in return, it's about figuring out the wrong thing 😄

[sturdy tusk]

It doesn’t show exactly what the player is going to get

[zealous barn]

meanwhile, an entirely new bug

was crafting and dismanting leaf bedrolls, afterwards dragging the stack did ... that

it looks like it's happening with the cordage stack, too

stacking/unstacking doesn't fix it, reopening the inventory doesn't fix it. all items are at either 1 or 2 durability

[sturdy tusk]

The stack numbers on the projected output are the result of a minimum roll on all inputs (so those are guaranteed) and the bright bar is how close a minimum roll is to getting an additional one of that quality. The dark bar is the maximum roll. So if the dark bar doesn’t reach the edge there’s no chance you can get an additional rune of that quality

[sturdy tusk]

Strange that this is popping up again. It’s been fixed before

[zealous barn]

odd bugs happening today. ignited a torch in offhand, but not seeing light. swapping offhand and mainhand fixed the issue, but for whatever reason replacing offhand weapon with torch and lighting it up didn't immediately give light

[sturdy tusk]

What’s your mainhand weapon?

[zealous barn]

i was dualwielding knives

woke up from sleep due to zombie nearby, dragged torch to offhand, right click, ignite

not sure if my mainhand was my "of endurance" or "of health potency" knife, although i dont think it makes any difference

come to think of it, i think the light thingie bugged when entering a cave earlier too

i just somehow mentally ignored it

you need to find a way to make automated tests for functionality like this 😄

have you seen how factorio does their tests? https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-438 ... video at the bottom. their way of ensuring they dont have regressions

[sturdy tusk]

We have similar tests

We just don't have a big enough dev team to consistently write them

We have tests for verifying results of each individual action, tests that run through an entire folder of like over a thousand old saves going back to the initial steam release to verify they all upgrade without errors, a test that runs TARS for a bit, and tests that just do some random stuff with a random seed with a bunch of different variants, set up in a way that we can rerun the same test with the same seed to exactly reproduce what happened

Specific functionality tests are very time consuming to write

That's why we're more reliant on the random stuff

Every so often we get a failure and we can fix it

[zealous barn]

huh, savegame migration support of that level is kinda nuts

[sturdy tusk]

i just modernised how we write our migrations recently too

we used to have like 10 absolutely gigantic files that checked versions repeatedly and performed upgrades

nowadays they look like this

export default UpgradeVersion({
    applies: version => version.isBefore("aug 28 2024 20:00", "nz"),

    upgradeCreature(version, upgrades, creature) {
        // fix creature.ai sometimes having arrays due to some bizarre old bug that probably doesn't exist anymore
        if (Array.isArray(creature.ai)) {
            creature.ai = creature.ai.reduce((mergedAi, newAi) => mergedAi | newAi, 0);
            upgrades.push("fixed array value for creature.ai");
        }

        interface ICreatureOld {
            ai: AiType;
            aiMasks: AiMaskType[];
            lastCalculatedAi: AiType;
            wanderIntent?: number;
        }

        const creatureOld = oldify<Creature, ICreatureOld>(creature);

        if (typeof creatureOld.ai === "number") {
            const ai = creatureOld.ai;
            creature.ai = new AiManager();
            creature.ai.entity = creature;
            creature.ai.ai = ai;
            creature.ai.aiMasks = creatureOld.aiMasks ?? [];
            creature.ai["lastCalculatedAi"] = creatureOld.lastCalculatedAi ?? AiType.None;
            creature.ai["wanderIntent"] = creatureOld.wanderIntent;

            delete creatureOld.aiMasks;
            delete creatureOld.lastCalculatedAi;
            delete creatureOld.wanderIntent;

            upgrades.push("upgraded creature ai to AiManager");
        }
    },

    upgradeNPC(version, upgrades, npc) {
        interface INPCOld {
            ai: AiType;
        }

        const npcOld = oldify<NPC, INPCOld>(npc);

        if (typeof npcOld.ai === "number") {
            const ai = npcOld.ai;
            npc.ai = new AiManager();
            npc.ai.entity = npc;
            npc.ai.ai = ai;

            upgrades.push("upgraded npc ai to AiManager");
        }

        npc.ai ??= new AiManager();
    },
});

[zealous barn]

i always discard my old saves after a long break and start from scratch, but i guess not everyone wants to do that

[sturdy tusk]

yeah there's quite a few people who like to keep using the same save

honestly when i first started on wayward i kinda wanted to stop supporting old versions at some point but at this point migrations are so ingrained into our philosophy that i can't imagine us doing anything different

we almost never have to do anything to maintain the old upgrades

because js variables and properties and stuff don't have runtime types or whatever. so there's tons of in-between states things will be in in the process of bringing them up to the modern equivalent

[zealous barn]

... i'm still contemplating whether i should say something about the version.isBefore("aug 28 2024 20:00", "nz") ... 😄

[sturdy tusk]

That's checking the build time of the build the save was saved with

Most of our team is pst so they use pst when they make an upgrade and I'm in nz so I use nz

Easier to just put the current time in our timezone since that will never need to be touched again

[tidal island]

cool

[sturdy tusk]

The date string is also strongly typed so it's really hard to screw it up

[tidal island]

hahaha nice

[zealous barn]

imagine pushing that right before the build happens, and a new build is created without the migration patch, and then you have to bump the datestamp forward by one day just in case

[sturdy tusk]

Yes I've had to do that before

When the tests are failing it releases the last successful build

So as soon as the tests succeed again a new upgrade has to be set to a date after the last build but before the next one

ie, the current time

There's not really a better way to do it except through setting up an automatic script to inject timestamps into new migrations on deploying a build

Which we could do but that's a lot of effort for something that isn't very difficult to do manually

[sturdy tusk]

how's this look

more comprehensible hopefully?

[sturdy tusk]

also reworked the messages. previously it was checking if the "value" of the runes you get out exceeded the value you put in, now it gives you a happy message as long as you increased your runes' quality

Also added the "resulting runes cascade around the altar" message because that silliness also confused people

"Is it supposed to do this???"

Hopefully this is enough polish now that I don't need to touch the system again besides to add new stuff

[zealous barn]

that is indeed much clearer

[zealous barn]

random observation: i've noticed that i simply don't care about runes at all because the game's too easy. they don't seem useful. maybe there should be crafting recipes that used them

something similar to the scarecrow maybe

[sturdy tusk]

we'll try to get some balance changes in before release

depends on me having time

so no guarantees

[zealous barn]

i'm not entirely sure if balance changes alone will make runes useful though. crafting recipes would be more approachable and interesting, they'd be a constant reminder that you used the rune for something

for example, have recipes for runic stone floors that provide some basic special effects (such as spawn suppression) and have additional magical modifiers available to provide buffs to anyone nearby

[zealous barn]

alternative idea: have some special locations in the world where using runes does something more significant. for example areas of permanent fog that reduce visibility, but can be cleared away with good runes. or runic chests that require a rune to be opened, could be in form of a glowing altar that turns into normal altar after use but also grants random loot. or island-to-island teleporters that require a rune to be activated

the teleporter thing could easily be expanded into dungeons later, too. have the player teleport to an island/cave that isn't on the map

[sturdy tusk]

stuff already can't spawn on flooring

and flooring also provides civ score which reduces spawns in a zone

other runes could have other effects or uses later

the fact that runes came bundled with a currently very unbalanced (in your favour) zone system is what makes them feel useless

[zealous barn]

i meant full spawn suppression, including merchants

[sturdy tusk]

ah, i wouldn't want that

runes are a creature thing not an npc thing

i want to change how npcs spawn later

i want to rework npcs in general and pretty much just keep the trade ui ngl

someday...

[zealous barn]

well, another idea for runic floor: keeps charge of runic power depending on quality, slowly recharges over time or activate runes to charge them manually, provide automatic effects to anyone standing on top by depleting charged runic power, such as healing, auto-repairing, damage reduction, crafting quality increase, ...

another ridiculous idea: runic floors could have lightening affecting anyone walking on them, or glowing so they'd always be lit during the night

or to go with the creature aspect: affect creature AI depending on which rune the player is standing on. e.g. evil runes could invert which creatures are hostile to you, or prevent enemies from fleeing forcing them to always engage in combat if you're standing on an evil rune. neutral rune floors would make monsters ignore you unless they're standing right next to you. good rune floors would just prevent monsters stepping on them altogether, higher quality needed to ward higher danger enemies. would make it possible to have a safe cave dwelling early game with a rune floor blocking enemies from entering

[zealous barn]

or have some sort of equipment imbuement mechanic for runes. for example, tools imbued with runes would have greater chance rolling magical enhancements related to that rune when used for crafting. weapons imbued with runes could have some special effect upon killing enemies such as adjusting weights of the loot tables so that rune-aligned loot is more likely to drop. armor imbued with runes is a pretty difficult case tho, it makes no sense to duplicate effects of Anatomy/Tactics/Parrying boosts, so maybe it should affect the types of enemy spawns

generally, they just need some more ways to use them, concrete ways to use them

runes are like scarce currency, but you can't buy anything much useful with them right now

[zealous barn]

the game really starts lagging after a few hours

and when i say lagging, i mean, like, i can press move keys towards a chest for a full second and if i let the key go, it's never gonna open the chest

oh boy, saving game is taking a good while

nah, saving was fast, it just stalled on the screen.

"[2024-11-28T10:30:12.821Z] [Ui] [DEBUG] Removing info provider because the game is stopping" ... this line, repeated 426 times

[2024-11-28T09:10:57.054Z] [ActionManager] [WARN] Failed to check usability of Repair as [Player:0]. Problems:
Argument 1 is invalid. Got: e [Item:3786:SmallBag]. Expected: Undefined | ItemNearby | Doodad

all kinds of nonsense in the log

[2024-11-28T07:50:31.146Z] [ActionManager] [WARN] Failed to check usability of Learn as [Player:0]. Problems:
Argument 0 is invalid. Got: e [Item:3581:OldInstructionalScroll]. Expected: ItemNearby

... is that the action bar history feature thingie glitching?

[sturdy tusk]

It’s not glitching it’s just a warning that’s a bit too aggressive

Those instances are action bar history buttons pointing to specific items that no longer exist or isn’t nearby. It checks usability of them but they’re not usable because of that. Previously this was not a check that would ever fail normally because actions were only ever used by code that knew the current state of things. The new code works differently because it’s a context snapshot that could no longer apply, and we just haven’t taken the time to make that validation failure not send a warning message anymore

Sorry about the memory leaks. They’re really hard to reproduce because they only become obvious over huge amounts of time and we never know the specific cause from reports like this since everyone plays differently.
If you want to help us fix those you can take a heap snapshot at a couple points during your play session, that allows us to more easily figure out where the leak is for you. I’m on mobile so I might not remember correctly, but I think it’s in the “Memory” tab of the DevTools. There’s a button to export the results. It might take a while

[zealous barn]

i recall there being some issues with heap snapshots not being very helpful for me earlier, like, they took forever and crashed the game. it's been months since then, though, but i dunno if that's still gonna be the same

[sturdy tusk]

Hmm, not sure

We’ve had some other people taking those recently I think

[zealous barn]

oh right, was there some way to manually trigger a save?

[sturdy tusk]

There should be a save button in the menu bar

[zealous barn]

AHHH

[sturdy tusk]

Ctrl S also works

[zealous barn]

now i remember i've asked this before

somehow i never find that

i hit esc and went through all the menus looking for save

[sturdy tusk]

I think you play on a tv screen at like 1x right? It makes sense some things are a bit harder to spot haha

[zealous barn]

yeah, 4K tv

[sturdy tusk]

The menu bar does need work though I’ll admit. Too many icons with no text

All kinda just runs together

[zealous barn]

save really doesn't belong there lol

the max zoomout on 4k tv is super cheaty tho. you should just let all players zoom out that far and balance around that, or limit it on large displays

[zealous barn]

wtf, it's already lagging, at 26min played after loading. and i didn't take those heap snapshots. i guess i should restart the entire process

[2024-11-28T11:38:31.734Z] [Ui] [Dialog] [Container] [DEBUG] Constructed
[2024-11-28T11:38:31.954Z] [Ui] [Dialog] [Container] [DEBUG] Appended
... 220ms to open a chest in a freshly opened savegame? and it feels much longer

yeah, in a fresh save, there's only 15-20ms between those two lines

oh, it's just this chest

another chest here does 20ms ...

only, uh, few hundred items in there

[sturdy tusk]

If the problem chest is still a problem between save and load and you send me the save I can take a look

It’s probably just that it takes a while to make all the stacked item components

Maybe I could figure out a way to JIT initialise those

[zealous barn]

i tried unstacking them, it was still slow to open the chest, but i didn't save&load after that

[sturdy tusk]

Unstacking would barely change anything

If the problem is just that it takes forever to make all those elements

[zealous barn]

here's the save in case you want to take a look

everything just started to feel clunky

the main thing i've been doing recently in the save is mining, so there's lots of stones around on the surface and the caves

[zealous barn]

no explanation if that has any in-game effect other than a line of text when you hover your own character. tried checking the help, but searching for "title" doesn't help. instead it gives completely unrelated result only, which is annoying because i have to read the entire thing to see where "title" was mentioned in it

[errant loom]

when chatting in multiplayer

[zealous barn]

i think a tad bit longer explanation here would help, or at least something that answers the question "does this affect any game mechanics?"

since i have lots of screen real estate, i wouldn't mind having the character name (and title) in the top left corner above the health/stamina/etc bars. i could then hover the title and it could perhaps tell me it's vanity-only and provides no bonuses

it's actually kinda curious that the game doesn't have a traditional "character sheet" or similar info dialog

[errant loom]

we are working on a paper doll which might have that

it does actually affect another thing, a milestone modifier

[tidal island]

a paper doll.....

[sturdy tusk]

#changelog message

should be better next build

quickest container opening times now will be from keeping your items stacked

item stacks were already set up to make rendering performance fast, but the fact it still had to pre-generate all of the item representations within those stacks made it so that when the container first opened there was still a lot of unnecessary stuff it had to do. each item component represents a whole bunch of event subscriptions on the item they're representing, plus 3-6 other elements that form the item UI. it's not particularly cheap when we're talking hundreds of items. 900-2000 elements and probably like 3000 event subscriptions just to open a container

luckily it was pretty easy to make it just not pre-generate those components. i had been worried it would be complicated enough i'd have to put it off but it only took me a little under an hour

stacked item components now get generated when you first hover over the stack and press ctrl to make its items visible

[errant loom]

nice

[zealous barn]

so i got heap snapshots taken before and after i made a trip to gather seeds and feed them to my chickens, how do i get something useful out of this?

+6M in PerformanceEventTimings lol ...

[zealous barn]

and a ton of WeakSets, 4132 bytes each. The internal table has references to item.ts:217, whatever that is, since I only have Production.js ... wait, there's only one place that allocates WeakSets? trackContainer inside ItemFinder ... it means a few thousand itemfinders were allocated and never freed? i certainly didn't gather thousands of seeds

[sturdy tusk]

Sorry, i’m bad at figuring those out, I can’t be much help. Usually Spacetech tackles leaks

(Even though they’re usually due to UI code lol)

Afaik it’s only really super useful to have both a before and after snapshot in two devtools windows so you can see what’s continuing to climb

Which necessitates exporting at least one

[zealous barn]

that's a comparison between two snapshots, but I didn't hit the garbage collection button and I have no idea if that would've made any difference. zero deleted WeakSets sounds like a leak regardless

[sturdy tusk]

Not necessarily

There’s some stuff that gets cached for performance as you play

Item finders are actually an example of that

It’s hard to know if that’s actually your perf issue from this

[zealous barn]

i'm still not sure what the item finders are used for exactly, but those two snapshots involved mostly just walking around gathering seeds and feeding them to chicken, which means very few new items generated

[sturdy tusk]

Item finders are exclusively used for action slots

[zealous barn]

but that's 2500+ itemfinders, since each of them allocates 2 weaksets ....

[sturdy tusk]

Whenever you change the item to any sort of “best” item filter, it creates an item finder instance for that particular action (because the best item algo can be different for different actions) which is specifically filtered with a combination of what the action expects and your own action slot configuration settings. Every unique variation an action slot is in at some point caches an item finder on the action itself that persists until exiting to main menu

The way item finders actually function is they’re tracked in one gigantic list of all item finders, on dispose they’re removed from the list, and then there’s one thing that listens for events that can cause changes in those item finders. Then whenever any of those events happen it goes through all the relevant item finders and marks them as needing recalculation. They aren’t actually recalculated until an action slot actually queries the best item again though

Making 2500 item finders sounds off, but I can’t really say entirely. There might be some action slot thing i’m not thinking of causing more different situations to be queried so more different item finders get inited

The item finder for each specific purpose never gets reinited though

I might add some logging for item finders and do some basic gameplay to see if I notice any weird item finders getting inited

Apologies, going to sleep now. Will be around tmrw morning for me for further responses and investigation

[zealous barn]

i went to harvest 10 maple seeds, one new itemfinder got allocated. then i used my actionbar "offer a normal/green maple seed" action to feed the chicken once, no itemfinders got allocated. then i hit the right mouse button and offered another seed manually, and now 14 new itemfinders got allocated

14 is the number of actionbar slots i have total

i.e. number of actions assigned to them

lol, the developer tools died

okay, this is a lot more fun comparison

6 maple seeds in inventory, manually fed them all. snapshots immediately before and after, so just 6 turns. weaksets allocated: 168. that means 84 itemfinders ????

each time i offered a seed manually, it allocated an itemfinder for EVERY assigned actionbar slot?

and those never get freed

more weirdness: right now, if i'm hovering a crafting recipe and move around, the framerate drops so that there's no movement animation at all. it renders the next frame only once i'm already at the new location

doesn't matter which recipe i hover, but some cause movement to be slower. the more ingredients the recipe consume, the slower it is to move one step

i'm assuming movement refreshes the tooltip, and it seems there's significant difference in the latency it takes for the inspector tooltip to open for different recipes. 1 tin needle tooltip opens fairly fast, 12 wrought iron shield tooltip opens noticeably slower, i dont need to even measure it i can see it's much slower to open

now it's suddenly no longer letting me take snapshots. ohwell

[errant loom]

they should get freed on garbage collection if you are nearing max ram usage

[sturdy tusk]

hmm i don't think this is actually item finders. i put breakpoints in there and no item finders are being created. using the maple seeds offer slot you have in the save you sent for chest opening time

or if it is item finders, that previous copy of this save isn't enough to repro

(i put a breakpoint on both the constructor and the the function that creates the weaksets)

[tidal island]

Any particular reason why a "Mine" quickslot would prefer a blue hammer to a green pickaxe? The pickaxe has more durability and it's even first in my inventory, so I don't know why it would be picking the hammer.

[sturdy tusk]

i think higher quality is weighted higher in the best algo

the best algo is not smart enough to know about action tiers

or if it is it treats that as an additional factor in addition to quality

[tidal island]

It's the same action tier, I have issues with my axe and my knife being used for chop in a similar way and it's the exact same situation: I got a high quality knife faster than a high quality axe

this is a funny save for that kind of issue

[sturdy tusk]

i'll see how hard this would be to tweak

if you can send the save i can try to make it work

[tidal island]

Sure

[sturdy tusk]

ah this is very simple

getItemUseBonus is action tiers

[tidal island]

and yeah this is all like, "could be normal behavior" to prefer a blue hammer over a green pickaxe

[sturdy tusk]

Should it universally choose by action tier -> durability -> quality ?
Or are there other factors it should consider in your opinion?

[tidal island]

but it was a bit of a confusing moment since I don't think of hammers and knives as tools for mining or treecutting

I don't know, I was thinking of trying to figure out what would differentiate the items

like adding a "Mining Tool" grouping to pickaxes that makes them preferred by the "best for..." algorithm somehow

that would be too complicated obviously

I'm just trying to figure out really why I should prefer to use a green pickaxe for mining over a blue hammer

I think it's because I pick based on the item type's base mining tier

but the algorithm picks based on its effective mining tier and also its overall quality

and I do not think that my preference for higher "base" mining tier is rational in this situation, just a gut feeling

So it's probably fine the way it is! haha

[sturdy tusk]

The quality bonus that item action tiers get could maybe be item-specific instead of always giving +1 per quality

It would be nerfing some items' effectiveness in some things though

[tidal island]

ooh, that does sound fun

and I think the idea of using "poorly-suited tools" is in line with your observation of making some items less effective in some things

like rip the supremacy of the knife but I think it's good to make a distinction there that it's not as well suited for cutting down trees as an axe would

[sturdy tusk]

@errant loom thoughts on something like that? doesn't have to be now if you would want that. the idea would be like, for example, knives only get +0.5 (rounded down) chop action tier bonus per quality, whereas axes get the full +1 per quality

would result in less of this particular situation where players are surprised that a knife is being selected as the best item to cut down a tree or whatever

[tidal island]

the more I think about it the more I think "item type's base action tier" handles this situation without having to make as substantial changes to the code

so you can make the sort key, in order of preference:
Effective action tier
Item type's base action tier
Quality
Durability

[sturdy tusk]

that would probably be a good temporary solution, though it doesn't really resolve the root weirdness which is just that knives can be better at chopping trees than axes even though logic says that a middling quality axe would probably be better than a mastercrafted knife just because you have more leverage

I committed your suggested tweak for now and it fixes both cases in your save

Will be in tonight's build

[tidal island]

:)

thanks!

oh is it normal that till/untill/toggle tilled doesn't have an animation the way chop does?

[sturdy tusk]

it would maybe look a little odd if it did, those animations are based on the damage type of the tool, so it would be the same animation as chop

[tidal island]

I think the chop animation is okay for tilling if it had one

[sturdy tusk]

oh actually i can override it. maybe slashing for till and blunt for pack ground?

[tidal island]

either way. I think it's pretty minor.

I uh. wait.

I don't think my stats are THAT bad...

[errant loom]

sounds okay for now

[sturdy tusk]

the danger levels of creatures isn't smart enough to take into account that the cod doesn't attack so it's seeing that it would take you forever to kill it and it assumes that if you attack it for long enough its pity damage against you will kill you first

the danger level system is very smart but only in normal scenarios. when you get to the weird outliers where things can't deal damage to each other it's really dumb

[tidal island]

haha

huh. I don't have a golden sextant on this save

[zealous barn]

using the actionbar didn't trigger the weakset creation, but right clicking and offering did. i guess i should've been more specific on what i meant with "manually" 🙂

i do right click and hit F key twice, a lot, and that seems to trigger the weakset creation

[sturdy tusk]

Ah I see

We did find a couple other leaks but didn’t figure out how to fix them

I’ll add some breakpoints for doing it via context menu tmrw

[zealous barn]

waitamoment. my actionbar now shows items for every action ... i'm 100% sure that wasn't happening yesterday

the first row was 100% surely just white action icons, only throw and offer had the specific item displayed because those were configured to use specific items

crafted an armor with Insulation ... does this actually do anything nowadays? cold insulation and heat insulation stats aren't displayed anywhere that i can find

[zealous barn]

playing dev version, but no entries for insulation there

also, that shift-rightclick is such a damn well hidden feature 😄

[junior valve]

It is still there, did you scroll down past resistances to the Insulations?

Hovering over the Defense should display totals too

[zealous barn]

nope, not there

[junior valve]

No idea why it wouldnt show up, maybe some setting or mod that disables temperature effects?
It doesnt show up in the item tooltips either?
Will check the code

[zealous barn]

nope, nothing shows up in tooltips. no mods at all

meanwhile, my pet chicken turned aberrant at some point, i dont think i've ever had this happen before

[junior valve]

seems it needs a discovery to show up in UI, forgot they introduced that system so UI elements get added as they are discovered
It seems it needs you to get Hyperthermia or Hypothermia status effect to unlock, not sure if you can reach those temperatures outside Volcanic or IceCap islands

[zealous barn]

oh lol. that's silly. i've had the heat effect from raging fire, but not the extreme ones

feels stupid to have insulation item but not see its stats, or even the fact that it has a hidden stat

[errant loom]

hmm ya that is weird

[sturdy tusk]

Idk why I put that on the tier 2 temp statuses, that’s an odd decision

I also only realised more recently that informational things that are hidden for discovery should almost always have placeholders there with like a ? to show the player they haven’t seen what makes this item or whatever relevant

Previously I just wanted to simplify everything as much as I possibly could which meant removal entirely until discovery

But that mostly just leads to confusion

[tidal island]

"You experience a strange sensation standing next to this puddle of lava. Perhaps increasing your [Anatomy] skill could help determine whether it's good or bad."

[sturdy tusk]

oh huh, just going through your other messages now — i didn't realise my change would cause this. that's kinda cool though actually

i'll have to add some kind of indicator on the action slot to show that it's using the "best" item

this is a consequence of a change i made specifically intended for the "use hovered item" action slots, so that it would show the item you're about to use for them. i had no idea that change was going to affect all the best item slots as well

[tidal island]

idea: higher fishing skill increases the chance that passively spawned fish will be higher grade (red snapper)

justification: it doesn't make more red snappers exist, it just makes you able to spot red snappers

[sturdy tusk]

wait what how is that still saying extreme danger

[tidal island]

dunno, I'm on 20241130.1

[sturdy tusk]

weirddd

i can't reproduce it on my end

[tidal island]

maybe it's an old creature from before you made whatever change

[sturdy tusk]

no it didn't have to change creatures

i just changed the algorithm that judged the danger level of them

[tidal island]

not a function on creature prototype?

shrug idk then

[sturdy tusk]

the only check is "if the creature is classified as fishable (which is a static property universal to all creatures of that type) it has no danger"

[tidal island]

out of curiosity, where in the code is that check?

is it like, player.senseDanger or something?

[sturdy tusk]

CombatStrengthManager.getCreatureDifficultyAgainstHuman(creature: Creature, human: Human): number

[tidal island]

mm

[sturdy tusk]

CombatStrengthManager is a singleton class created once when you first launch the game, it's accessible from CreatureManager.combatStrength in the DevTools console

public getCreatureDifficultyAgainstHuman(creature: Creature, human: Human): number {
  if (creature.description?.fishable) {
    return 0;
  }

this is the entire check

description will always be set for blindfish, the only reaon that's an optional property is because a mod can add something and then be removed later, so there'd be a creature left in the world with no description anymore

oh i see

it's because yesterday's build was failing

it didn't contain a whole bunch of stuff

nothing after drathy's "fire particles" change in #changelog went in that build

sorry for the confusion and also burying your suggestion

[tidal island]

:3c it's alright

[zealous barn]

entered a cave during night, no torch lit .. and the surroundings were lit like it was daytime, for one turn. does it cache the lighting for the entire cave layer when you exit? 😄

[errant loom]

i saw that earlier too

[zealous barn]

display for Lightening modifier broke in the latest build

[sturdy tusk]

what you don't want +5 92s?

(thanks)

[zealous barn]

huh?

[sturdy tusk]

Wow never seen that happen

How did you get this item?

[sturdy tusk]

Interesting

It’s supposed to discover all magic properties on items the moment they enter an inventory you can access

[zealous barn]

i wonder if it's related to some skill that i dont have yet

[sturdy tusk]

Do you have the items being dropped on craft?

[zealous barn]

nope

[sturdy tusk]

What happens if you drop it and then pick it back up?

[zealous barn]

oh, it was Prosperity

the only trigger condition I can think of is that the planks used for the craft were stored in two different bags

[sturdy tusk]

I’ll add investigating this to the todo

[zealous barn]

planks in single bag: didn't trigger the bug

[sturdy tusk]

You know I think there’s someone else that reported a bug at some point that seemed like items were being added to the inventory without being checked for milestone progress

[zealous barn]

i think that was the first Prosperity item i've seen this run. is that discovery bound to item, or the character? i.e. is this only able to trigger if i craft a modifier i've never seen before?

[sturdy tusk]

Yes

The ?s only happen for undiscovered things

And discovery happens once globally

Because it’s tied into the milestones system

[zealous barn]

yeah, so this is gonna be a pain to reproduce in this save 🙂

[sturdy tusk]

The only reason ?s show for magical properties btw is the same thing handles translation of magical properties in item names as the thing that translates magical properties that appear elsewhere, like in milestones discovery lists. A lot of things work like this now

In one way you could consider it fragile but in another way, this makes it much easier to notice when something is bugged

[zealous barn]

another light cache bug. it is currently night. i exited from that top entrance earlier, and came back from different entrance during night

taking steps left and right retains that light, but stepping one step up clears it

huh. igniting a FRESH torch with no decay in it doesn't update the light right away but requires extra turn. but if the torch has been lit before and has decayed, the light calculation happens immediately

[zealous barn]

the container stack optimization might be clashing with crafting

wanting to craft compost, it didn't highlight the items that would be used for the craft. after opening and closing the stack of leaves, it is working again

[sturdy tusk]

Oh I didn’t consider that

I’ll add to the todo thank you

[zealous barn]

my biggest gripe currently is actually dragging of items

whenever i try to drag something to bottom of a container, it goes somewhere in the middle

[sturdy tusk]

I will also add that to the todo lol

That worked at some point!

[zealous barn]

makes it massive pain to upgrade my gear, since i want to keep the used gear at the top of inventory, and when i drag an item to the very bottom it often goes whereever

yea, after reopening the inventory the dragging works now

maybe it was desynced by something? i dont know

[sturdy tusk]

Oh no that’s a bigger issue

[zealous barn]

but the dragged item did stay in the middle after reopening

[sturdy tusk]

Hmm

[zealous barn]

there's tons of quirks with the inventory and stacks

very commonly stacks dont stay together

[sturdy tusk]

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[zealous barn]

when expanding the stack, the items might end up in multiple clusters

and this happened just now

i stacked my seeds, dragged the stack to the middle, then went to gather more seeds

result: the stack moved to the bottom, but upon expanding, all the seeds are at the top

[sturdy tusk]

Ughhh container bugs are neverending

Stacks are the worst

[zealous barn]

dragging the stack around moves the stack, but whenever it gets expanded the items stay at the very top

wait what, that breaks now even without any actions

reopen inventory and ctrl to expand: stack is all at the bottom. drag the stack and drag it to bottom where it already was, then expand: all the seeds are at top, while stack stays at bottom

dragging ANY stack to the bottom of the inventory does that right now 😮

in any container

after dragging any stack to the bottom, the next item dragged to bottom goes to the top until container is reopened

no clue what causes things go into middle somewhere. tends to happen after a crafting session

[zealous barn]

alert is desynced from the rat

the alert re-synced when i went closer, but remained in place when i stopped moving and the rat went further away

i guess it has a range where it's supposed to be updated, but it doesn't get removed when the rat leaves the range

yep, 8 tiles

[zealous barn]

when repairing, it seems to use the LAST purple hammer in my inventory to do so, which happens to be a hammer of swimming. i guess the Hammer of Aptitude isn't actually better for repairing, but it's unexpected that it uses the very last purple one and not the first

[sturdy tusk]

The best item algorithm is action tier for repair -> base action tier for repair (ie comparing action tier of the items at normal quality) -> quality -> durability -> position in inventory

Specific algorithms can exist for certain actions that need to have other checks, but this is the default

[zealous barn]

oh, durability, right. that's why it uses the freshly crafted ones lol

i need some magical modifier that improves the repairing ability so repair action wont use random hammers 😄

[sturdy tusk]

We really just need a way to set the default tool for specific “x with y” actions

Actually that should be an action bar thing

Repair using specific item hovering the item to repair

[zealous barn]

oh right, hovering was a thing now

[sturdy tusk]

I had this happen very consistently at some point and I reported the bug internally to space and then afterwards neither of us could reproduce it anymore so we just archived the bug. I have no idea what causes this

[zealous barn]

ahh, i thought the hover feature this way was already a thing. nope

it causes the actionbar to glitch tho

[sturdy tusk]

Oh?

[zealous barn]

bound repair to actionbar, hovering repairable items shows hammer in the slot, hovering non-repairable ones doesn't ... but using the action will not apply to hovered item, it tries to repair what's on the tile in front

actually it isn't even based on repairability

hovering leaves and runes wont show the hammer in slot, but hovering stripped bark does show the hammer

oh, it's because i chose "use hovered item" ...

if i hover hammers, it shows what i'm hovering. otherwise it shows the first hammer, but sometimes doesn't

lol, it also happens if i hover an item that's in another action bar slot ;D

[sturdy tusk]

I think repair in the action bar simultaneously means “use configured item to repair stuff on facing tile” or “repair configured item” based on the item that’s “configured”, and the item that’s configured is based on what you’re hovering for “use hovered item”

[zealous barn]

if i choose "repair with item" for the action (wtf is that?) the actionbar slot shows the random item i'm hovering 😄

oh, that one repairs the hovered item

i just can't choose the hammer for that, because the action goes the wrong way around

it "uses" the item-to-be-repaired, not the hammer

so i guess you need all the "with item" actions to support specifying both the target AND the tool item

[sturdy tusk]

Yep

It would be a huge ordeal to do it ngl

[zealous barn]

huh, 70/24 ...

i made cordage, then disassembled it, and noticed the durability was still "full". no idea what it was before crafting

[errant loom]

hmm, probably another a persistent bug

will check

[zealous barn]

yeah, it came from bundle with persistence modifier

[zealous barn]

"into {1}" 😄

[sturdy tusk]

Does that always happen??

[zealous barn]

nope

[sturdy tusk]

what the heck

[zealous barn]

if i take all out and put back in, it doesn't trigger it. but there were more items them so hmm

i mean, there were some sharpened bones in there already

oh, now it triggers

[sturdy tusk]

Can you check the log and see if there are any warnings in the console about serializing messages/translations?

[zealous barn]

"drop all spider silk" etc triggers it

i.e. right click, Q, A

[sturdy tusk]

oh i can repro that thank you

[zealous barn]

i usually use ctrl-shift, but for some reason i did it differently this time

[sturdy tusk]

I think I found the issue

drop just handles its message differently

i think it's trying to tell you the name of the tile

which is undefined because tiles don't have names

[sturdy tusk]

ohhhh the stack items going to the top bug is because all items get regenerated when you drag a stack (for some reason) but item regen skips stack items, and it doesn't remove anything that was previously there. so all the regened items just end up appearing in the list after the existing stuff because they were added after

[zealous barn]

this container keeps forgetting it was set to sort on decay - so it shows "custom" dropdown with the sort direction toggle. it happens regularly but i dont know what triggers it

[sturdy tusk]

looks like dragging items into containers incorrectly sets it to custom

it's supposed to only switch to custom when changing the order of items already in there via dragging

that worked at some point i swear!

[zealous barn]

you need to somehow make automated testing for containers ;D

[sturdy tusk]

We actually did start on that

But I haven't really had time to full commit into making tests and improving the capabilities of it

[zealous barn]

at least you could automate desync testing with TARS, check if reopening a container would reorder anything in the UI

[sturdy tusk]

every interaction tars does is with the internal systems

and the ui is good at handling internal changes

it screws up when it tries to handle changes the player makes by like dragging things around

that's where like almost all of the edge cases are

lots of perf hacks

[zealous barn]

but if you aren't testing it, are you really sure it's good at handling internal changes? ;D

[sturdy tusk]

it would be a lot more broken if it wasn't

internally everything is like 2 possible things

it's all handled in a very simple way

[zealous barn]

but since it doesn't rely on the UI order of things, it wont break when UI desyncs

and desyncs aren't even very obvious when they happen

[sturdy tusk]

the reason all the edge cases are in user interactions specifically is that there are like 100 different ways for the user to do weird things with the ui that have to be accounted for in the ui itself

whereas the code that handles ingame stuff only has to handle the like 2 possible internal changes since everything goes through those

when you do shift clicking that results in the internal stuff

that's why shift clicking usually works fine

[zealous barn]

lol, runes can be refined to strip weight with refinement tools, and that gives theurgy skill 😄

[zealous barn]

the opening optimization has just moved the delay a bit later ... when i drop items into a chest that has a few hundred items in stacks, there's an annoying delay

[sturdy tusk]

That delay shouldn’t be related to the optimisation

How are you dropping the item(s) in, do you have the container open, and how many items are not stacked?

[zealous barn]

the container is open, dropping with hover+Q, ... and of course it isn't reproducible

but this has happened several times now. and it's VERY significant delay. like almost a full second

cant even remember what it is that i dropped. these item management stalls happen every now and then and it just breaks my flow and then i continue, disregarding the issue...

moving a 60 item stack with shift-click feels like ~200+ ms too

i should make a mod that logs execution time of each turn ;D

[sturdy tusk]

Most likely when you see it have a big stall it’s regenerating an entire item list

Because it got messed up and actually noticed it’s desynced

It could be caused by either container

The one you’re dropping into or the source

[zealous barn]

19 atk 63 def ... and i've just been hanging around in the starting area. my equipment isn't very exotic either, tin + scales (from pet snake). still missing recipe for a sail so i cant leave the starting island 😄

rouseabout is silly

there really needs to be some other means of travel

[zealous barn]

lol, started at theurgy 1%, refined all my runes and i'm at theurgy 54% now

refining is way too good way to skill up everything

[sturdy tusk]

I think someone mentioned that before but I forgot to remove the skill gain from it

Maybe forgot to add it to the todo

[zealous barn]

it'd be funny if there was penalty for refining the runes instead

or a chance for something to go wrong

[sturdy tusk]

There’s not really much point to doing it

Besides skill gain

I kinda consider runes more like currency than actual items, the fact they have different weights and different durabilities and stuff is weird

[zealous barn]

hmm. i right clicked a rabbit to chose to attack it, and it ran behind trees, but the automatic pathing seems to have known where it had gone since it switched to a shorter path without the rabbit being visible (or at least i dont think it was visible)

[zealous barn]

you cannot walk into dug holes, but you can jump into them

it seems the pit mechanism is to prevent infinite resource gathering ... however, if you dig a beach near the seawater, the water will flow in, allowing you to harvest another sand, and then you can just close it up and start moving around, digging more and more sand from the exact same spots forever

[zealous barn]

happened again, this time much clearer, i could see the target cross moving in the area that wasn't in sight

[errant loom]

let me know if you are still getting this, can't repro either issue

or the cave thing

[sturdy tusk]

i think space fixed those?

think that was his last few "compute lights" commits

[errant loom]

ah, looked at the changelog dates

ya, should be fixed now i think

[zealous barn]

nah, still happening

[errant loom]

oh?

send save?

[zealous barn]

let me quickly test some more things

needs to be ignited immediately after equipping

equip to offhand, ignite. if you move even one step after equipping, light gets calculated right

works with wooden poles too

there's the save if you need it. it's in a dark cave, inventory has few candles at the very bottom. equip any to offhand, right click, ignite

[zealous barn]

hmm. if i have 1 rotting vegetation stacked, right click menu doesn't show "eat" action for it. for 1 apple in a stack, though, it does show "eat"

being able to refine chicken eggs feels wrong 😄

[zealous barn]

i dont think those icons are supposed to appear twice

[errant loom]

hahaha

Chiri gonna hate that

[zealous barn]

dropped some, uh, 100 corks on an open fire, then started refining them while hovering them, waiting to see when they'd turn into ashes

after a while, that happened

i was using an actionbar refine action so the tooltip was always open while hovering

[sturdy tusk]

yeah we know about that one

it's been in the game since at least aug 2023 and was originally reported by you

it's possible it's the combination of multiple bugs

and the current iteration of it has been around for less time

[zealous barn]

but i had no idea the tooltips just keep stacking up forever

[sturdy tusk]

oh yeah haha

[zealous barn]

like, more and more of them will appear if you keep refining

before today i only ever saw max 2 at the same time

[sturdy tusk]

there's actually a way to cause it with other tooltips as well, if you teleport with debug tools you can cause infinite "self" inspection tooltips

it's unfortunately really really difficult to fix because even just a few years ago i was really bad at ui internals programming

next major version or maybe during the minor updates for runekeeper i'll be refactoring the "outer" internals of the inspection system which hold the bug

it'll be fine after that

sorry for the annoyance though

[zealous barn]

the fun part is that you'll always feel that you were really bad a few years ago. if you stop feeling like that, it means you've stagnated ;D

that tooltip thing is really strange, because sometimes it looks like the tooltip does update, or ONE of the tooltips updates

now it's giving that for EVERY tile i hover

even after alt-tabbing

after hovering the pineapple, it fixed itself

ahhh, i keep wanting to get into modding, but i also want to keep playing this run non-modded, and i dont want to keep switching mods on and off. what a dilemma

[zealous barn]

i was repeatedly repairing and reinforcing those tools, and suddenly the durability bar didn't update after reinforce

i opened and closed the inventory to make sure it wasn't desynced, and did it again ... took 3 more repair-reinforce cycles to get the bug to happen again

wait what, you can get overhydration from eating an apple

accidentally ate two apples in row, lost 33 stamina TWICE 😄

[zealous barn]

refining is way too easy way to skillup. i can just craft bunch of stuff, dump on ground, and hold down the key to refine items in front of me. i just crafted a pile of wooden rails, gained 0.2% skill from crafting. then refined them all and gained 0.8% skill from that

not sure what would be a better way to skillup, though. having to gather materials is way more annoying grind, but just holding down a key for a stupidly long time doesn't feel good either

a single wooden rail can be refined 4-6 times, even the ones i craft from plain white planks

i guess the root problem is the skillup being gained from non-challenging tasks. i mean, you can max out taming by feeding seeds to goats, and then use that skill to tame dragons without having to offer them a thing

it's a simple system, but it incentivizes leveling up all skills in safe area first and then finding the rest of the game unchallenging

[zealous barn]

minor annoyance: making ash cement in bulk requires gathering tons of water, it'd be nice if it didn't require me to manually gather from the sea. would need alternative recipes for the same craft tho, i suppose

[zealous barn]

see the alert down there. i think i passed a shark there and didn't notice ;D

[tidal island]

petition for this to become one of the pinned images

[zealous barn]

usually those hearts don't appear when they should, now they're still there when i left

[zealous barn]

went to another island, and it started lagging like crazy. decided to quit to menu, and saving is taking forever now. or maybe not saving, instead whatever it's doing to clean up after saving

oh, i dont think it's ever gonna finish cleanup

yea, never returned to menu, but it responded to quitting the game gracefully

[zealous barn]

traveled to home island again, and immediately got massive lag. quitting to menu seems to stall again...

[zealous barn]

😄

[sturdy tusk]

Turn off developer mode

[orchid flower]

Im finally back to wayward, were there any important changes in last 2 months?

[sturdy tusk]

Just some fixes

I guess I did make some other improvements in the past couple weeks

You can just scroll back a bit through #changelog if you’re curious

There’s not been like sweeping design or balance changes though

Just UX improvements and one or two slight balance tweaks pretty much

[orchid flower]

modded itemextra still have issues 😛

[sturdy tusk]

issues how? i don't have a card for that

[orchid flower]

we talked about it before my ~2 months break

[sturdy tusk]

hmm maybe i forgot to make a card then

lemme see if i can find the messages

[sturdy tusk]

oh it's not looking in the mod

you didn't use a custom path for those presumably?

that's just the default place it tries to load from?

[orchid flower]

by default it tries to load from game resources

And even if I tried I doubt I would be able to make it look into game resources

All other mod items load from correct path, it's just these staves that don't have their icons

[sturdy tusk]

Did I download a copy of that mod?

I have DispellingCloth and PinItem

I'm guessing not?

I think the rune stuff was something different right?

I ask because I think I fixed it but I want to verify

[orchid flower]

I will upload it, give me few minutes

[sturdy tusk]

okay fixed

you'll have to update your image paths, you had them including modmagicology in the name but that won't be necessary

will match the rest of your custom items

you also had your inert runic staff called runicstaffofinert but the item extra name is runicstaffinert, so that will also have to be updated

will be in tonight's build

was a bit more complicated than i expected. this is the first instance we've had of a mod registration type that doesn't have an associated definition object but that still loads images

the objects are usually what tells the game which mod a registration is from, so in this case i had to do some magic to get it to find the mod correctly

[zealous barn]

logs of persistence dont generate at full durability when chopping down a tree. i think other harvested goods are currently doing the same as well

actually no, just got a pineapple of persistence and it's fine

[zealous barn]

wtf, i 100% saw an enemy nearby, alerted ... and when i went to check, just 10 tiles away, it was gone

like, despawned?

it was aberrant giant spider, but it circled away from me making it hard to find it 😮

[zealous barn]

hmmmmm

it displays weight in the toolbar, not capacity?

after reopening the bag, it displays capacity again

it kept updating it correctly for the weight, too, when i moved stuff in and out. is that a feature or a bug? 😮

well, that 7.3 is completely bonkers

[zealous barn]

had to relaunch the game. going to main menu and back did not stop the lagging, but restarting the exe fixed it

[zealous barn]

that history toolbar has bad tooltip, suggests wrong hotkey

oh, if i hit that silly key, it changes the hotkeys so 1 becomes correct. never used that because that key is actually "§" key on my keyboard, not `

[errant loom]

hmm

[sturdy tusk]

Pressing an unrelated key is treated as ` for you? That’s very strange

[errant loom]

can you share what keyboard you have? § is new to me

[zealous barn]

finnish keyboard layout

it's still in the top left corner

[errant loom]

interesting, will check into

[zealous barn]

it seems to do the same for every other keybind. it's displaying based on US layout, so ö shows up as ; if you try to bind it to something

[errant loom]

i don't think we can do anything here - it seems like it maps specifically to KeyBackQuote

it doesn't have its own definition

other than, like not using it by default i guess

[zealous barn]

it's just a display issue, the logic is fine

switch to any international layout to reproduce

[sturdy tusk]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/KeyboardEvent/code#try_it_out if you type in this what does it say for key and code? Is either of them correct?

[errant loom]

i think it will just be backquote according to what i read, but it would be awesome if it didn't

[zealous barn]

it shows the keys correctly as § and ö, not ` and ;

[sturdy tusk]

interesting

i wonder if we can somehow get a keymap for the current keyboard layout

so that we can display differences as the correct character for each person's keyboard, even if internally it still works the same as it does now

[errant loom]

let's just hope that's not in another spot on some random keyboard haha

added to the todo

[zealous barn]

another random thing ... i have a feeling this should be displaying more info instead of all the ? marks

[sturdy tusk]

No, that's correct

Those are all the sources you've gotten runes from

By default it's all ?s

[zealous barn]

that seems odd, unless that's a very new feature, since i've been doing quite a bit of things in this run already

[sturdy tusk]

If you want more information all possible rune sources are in the Runekeeper milestone

Shows all three deities and every potential source, which includes things like crafting/dismantling/disassembling/etc

[zealous barn]

11/636 ... uh. hmm these milestones are being a bit odd

e.g. my doctor milestone progress is 0/15 and i'm pretty sure i've at least stopped bleeding in this run

[sturdy tusk]

Unrelated to the current thing but could I ask you to run something in your Wayward DevTools console to see if it will help us with displaying keybinds?

[zealous barn]

sure, what do you want me to run?

[sturdy tusk]

console.log((await navigator.keyboard.getLayoutMap()).entries().toArray().map(([code, key]) => `${code}: ${key}`).join("\n"))

should print out something like this

If that shows § for Backquote it means I can fix the display

[zealous barn]

yep

[sturdy tusk]

Awesome

[errant loom]

ah good idea

[sturdy tusk]

I'll try to get this in for the first minor update

[zealous barn]

i just got 3 good runes from feeding my chicken, and the tooltip doesn't show taming as an action or a skill. my taming is 100% and taming skill tooltip says good runes may be bestowed, are you sure this is working right?

[sturdy tusk]

I think it doesn't show ones that are shared between multiple deities

oh, no, taming is always a good thing apparently

that's weird

that shouldn't be like that

[zealous barn]

both good and bad shows butcher

[sturdy tusk]

because actually successfully taming something gives you a rune based on the domain of the creature

[zealous barn]

maybe i created this run before that milestone was a thing, i cant remember

[sturdy tusk]

Every single thing that gives runes uses the same system though so it would be really weird if only some of them work

I'll take a look though by feeding a single animal on loop

[zealous barn]

well, i dont think it's just feeding. i've gotten ~400 runes this run, and the milestone is at 11/636 ...

[sturdy tusk]

yeah that's just the easiest way to reproduce whatever the problem is lol

[zealous barn]

just did cure poison, doctor milestone didn't increase, it's still at 0/15

[sturdy tusk]

are you sure milestones aren't disabled for you?

[zealous barn]

how do i determine

[sturdy tusk]

I don't remember if there's an in-game UI thing for it, but you can run game.milestoneManager.areUnlockable() in DevTools

[zealous barn]

actually, found an easy way. invoked rune, benevolent milestone increased by 1

[sturdy tusk]

kk

[zealous barn]

milestoneManager also says true for areUnlockable()

made a completely new game, got poisoned by spider, cured poison with medicinal water ... doctor is still at 0

here's my global non-world save data, in case it helps, maybe something's corrupt there 😄

[sturdy tusk]

I can repro doctor not working

[sturdy tusk]

lol the only way runekeeper ever updates anymore is if you get multiple runes with a single action

which almost never happens

slaps rabbit this bad boy can fit so much seeds in it

[zealous barn]

indeed. early game i tend to gather all the maple seeds i see and then feeding them to a pet, and that's why i have an action for it so i can just hold down a key ;D

[sturdy tusk]

yep that's what i was doing lol

i spawned a tamed rabbit with debug tools and added the "stay" ai to it and then used debug tools to give myself like 500 seeds and just held down the button to both figure out what was happening and also ensure I had fixed it

Was a bit surprising that you found two bugged milestones back to back and they were bugged for different reasons

[zealous barn]

well, i forgot the milestones were even a thing, i only checked since you mentioned the runekeeper. and that 0 doctor really stood out there

i had hidden the button from my top toolbar because i used to just remember the keybinds for everything, and it was a bit of a hassle to remember how to get the milestone dialog open again

[bright summit]

One bear two bugs

[regal cobalt]

Please I beg you to never use a statement like this ever again /jk

[bright summit]

I was thinking of the two birds one stone

I forgot about the girls tbh

[regal cobalt]

,ahsdbJKSDBHAJH lmao

[mighty moss]

hey if rune keeper is out now do i go back to normal build now?

are we gonna get updates n stuff?

ok yeah im dumb

[zealous barn]

hmm stack bugs. loaded save, ignited candle, went to grab some nearby ash with pickup all items ... and the inventory is already desynced. when stack is expanded, the new items i got are at the very bottom, although the stack and its old items are at the middle of inventory

closed and reopeined inventory. used the dig action via actionbar to grab the final ash from the tile ... and that ash ended up at the bottom, not with the stack. so this should be easy to reproduce

[zealous barn]

feature request: chest tooltips, could they be made to show contained item types? icons only, with quality borders showing which grades are contained. that'd be more useful than shift-hovering to view the list. alternatively, improve the output of the detailed list

e.g. i look at this and have a question, "does this chest have something other than bone meal and fertilizer?" ... it doesn't, but it takes way too much effort to figure that out

it'd be nicer if that list was grouped by item type first, even if the tooltip ends up becoming longer

i guess it could be just modded

[zealous barn]

ugh, the number of times i've accidentally done the wrong action due to the history actionbar swap thingie

[sturdy tusk]

How are you accidentally swapping??

Oh do you mean you forget to turn it back off?

I can make it turn itself off if you do something other than a history action

[zealous barn]

yea, i forget to swap it away

also, another thing i keep doing is eating something during a bulk session when stamina goes out

and then i hit 1 down and eat 3 more things

[sturdy tusk]

lol

[zealous barn]

and then this happens 😄