Return rework

[crude vale]

Did you just copy and paste your mastery suggestion or am I tripping

[pearl meadow]

Yes thats exactly what I said

[crude vale]

Yeah but

Why an exact copy and paste

[pearl meadow]

Because people seemed to want it more as a rework than a mastery but my idea still worked as a rework

[crude vale]

Why not just rename the mastery post to just rework

[pearl meadow]

Because some might prefer a mastery instead

[peak breach]

hi

nice idea

[crude vale]

Why not put both

[pearl meadow]

Because proposing a rework and proposing a mastery are 2 different things

[crude vale]

Why not make them the same thing

[pearl meadow]

Because they are different things dawg

[crude vale]

Why not put them both in a box and never know which made it into a game until you open the box

Schrödingers return

[pearl meadow]

I feel like we're deriving from the plot here

[crude vale]

Plot?

What plot

[pearl meadow]

The plot of the story of this conversation

[crude vale]

What’s a conversation

[pearl meadow]

Now is not the time for me to fill in the gaps of your education

[plush canyon]

peak ragebaiting fr

[wind spear]

Not another ability with an energy bar to use the other abilities

[pearl meadow]

There's like 1 other

And it's a mastery anyway

[crude vale]

There’s 4

Magnet mastery, lemon mastery, mage, and railgun

Technically bone and mummy too

[zinc coyote]

low-key UFO mas kinda does count imo

[crude vale]

Kinda nuclear

So 8 total

Including kinda bars

[pearl meadow]

Oh yea honestly I forgot

And railgun doesn't really count

[crude vale]

For the most part yeah

It’s a percentage showing and effecting how your moves will be used

Just like every other bar

[pearl meadow]

Except there literally one move

[pearl meadow]

A bar only really affect thing if there is more than 1 move affected

[woeful birch]

return is kinda ass

[pearl meadow]

Yea I know that's why I made this

[woeful birch]

but

robot

needs one more

💀

[pearl meadow]

Robot is aight

[woeful birch]

aight?

[pearl meadow]

It's like not bad not good

[woeful birch]

U spawn a fucking robot that can barely hit anyone

2 punches noobs can cook that

and throw a wrench

[tawdry barn]

This is…

Bland.

[woeful birch]

that has a fucking chance of 0.2 percent of hitting smbody

[tawdry barn]

It doesn’t exactly make return any more interesting

Just more… active?

[pearl meadow]

It does it make it actually offense oriented

And it now require thinking and planning

[woeful birch]

better idea: remove the whole ability

like static

coffee

mind control

[pearl meadow]

No that's for quitter

[woeful birch]

energy drink

[tawdry barn]

But the orb functions the same, the Q functions the same and you just made a R that creates a free teleport

Oh yeah but you canuse E without dying to use it though so I guess that’s different

[pearl meadow]

E isn't the same at all, it's an actual ability now, the Q is different has it now require thinking and can actually be more OP, and the R is insane for combo

[tawdry barn]

Yeah but you did just say that it teleport the user to the players LAST position (from being hit so it actually can’t combo extend

It’s basically just E but you punch someone

[pearl meadow]

It can, M1 then you tp them to you which is an insane extension

[tawdry barn]

Also Q doesn’t really change at all other then being based of a percentage

[pearl meadow]

Which make it actually alot more interesting

[tawdry barn]

You don’t even need it to combo extend and the way you suggested it doesn’t actually help combo extending

[pearl meadow]

It quite literally does, just use it after the 4 M1 and you get 4 more M1

It's really not hard to understand

[tawdry barn]

So you activate it after using R

Then you restarted a combo

Isn’t that unbalanced?

[pearl meadow]

You press R, then the next time you punch someone you can tp them to the place where they have been punched

[tawdry barn]

Should have a wind up

[pearl meadow]

It's strong but only for skilled player mostly

[tawdry barn]

Just being able to telepunch again

[pearl meadow]

Wdym a windup

[tawdry barn]

It’s jus telepunch

[pearl meadow]

Telepunch with skill involved

[tawdry barn]

That was removed for a reason

[tawdry barn]

And you admitted that it is

[pearl meadow]

It's not really tho since you don't even get tp

[tawdry barn]

Telepunch and this isn’t really different at all

You still teleport

[pearl meadow]

You don't

They do

[tawdry barn]

It’s like shift and teleport had a child

[tawdry barn]

Wait

What do you mean?

[pearl meadow]

The only teleporting involved is the person punched

[tawdry barn]

They teleport to the position instead?

[pearl meadow]

They tp to where you punched them how is that hard to understand

[tawdry barn]

Well you could’ve started with this!

[pearl meadow]

It's literally written

[tawdry barn]

That’s DEFINITELY bad

And very unbalanced

Let’s set up a scenario

[pearl meadow]

Nah it's still avoidable if you're good enough

[tawdry barn]

I punch a dos user (10-15 kills) and I have a go with me

[pearl meadow]

Tho it's definitely a noob destroyer which isn't too bad

[tawdry barn]

I use R and they get teleported and die instantly form the go spamming punch

[pearl meadow]

Yea it can easily set up crazy combo with others

[tawdry barn]

Not even with go

Gp*

[tawdry barn]

So you made an ability that encourages teaming?

[pearl meadow]

Yea if you set it up right he'd just die

[tawdry barn]

That would be unfair

And also

Not being able to fight back or do anything about it makes it worse

[pearl meadow]

If you think of it that way there's like so many ability that can be called teaming

[pearl meadow]

If you're figthing a return user you're gonna know they can do that so you'll adapt

[tawdry barn]

Well this is the most blatantly team based ability in the entire game

[tawdry barn]

Dude

[pearl meadow]

There's a time limit for a reason

[tawdry barn]

Your not gonna adapt to a instant teleport

[tawdry barn]

Should be a 5 second wind up

[pearl meadow]

A wind up would literally ruin it

Totally useless

[tawdry barn]

Or just be reworked in my opinion

[tawdry barn]

It’s totally useless to even bother doing anything

This version of return and go would just be unstoppable

[pearl meadow]

Which is why there is a time limit to limit the teaming possibility

[tawdry barn]

And free instant teleport that you can’t react to or stop from happening that immediately starts a chain combo and is un avoidable

[tawdry barn]

And if your being teamed on then this literally gets you killed

[pearl meadow]

I don't think so because if you activate it early it's most likely because you're planning some kinda combo

[tawdry barn]

But I feel like people genuinely hate return so much they would settle for this not even realizing how much worse this is

[tawdry barn]

Yes

You are.

You actually have 10 whole seconds to plan something

[pearl meadow]

This is good but not to OP if you're good enough

[tawdry barn]

There ain’t a distance limit

[pearl meadow]

I nerfed it to 7s

[tawdry barn]

Should be 3

There ain’t a reason to hold onto something like that for 7 whole seconds

[pearl meadow]

3 would make it to predictable

[tawdry barn]

Well it actually puts pressure onto the user to prevent them from trying to gather players

Making them either use it or lose it

It makes it less team based

[pearl meadow]

Yes but that'd ruin any chance of making it good

It's not team based

[tawdry barn]

But it would be fair

[pearl meadow]

You think of it as team based because that's how you'd use it

But realistically this wouldn't happen in-game

[tawdry barn]

Knowing EXACTLY where you’ll be teleported at makes it pretty easy for other people to position themselves

[tawdry barn]

You’d be surprised how far people will go when they don’t like you

[pearl meadow]

Yea but the scenario you're talking of is so unlikely it's barely worth considering

[tawdry barn]

What about dos?

Or hivemind

Or any snowball ability

[pearl meadow]

Yea sure people wanna kill dos

But do you really expect that the scenario you're talking about is likely to happen

It ain't

[tawdry barn]

Think of defender or crafter or hivemind etc

People really don’t like those abilities

Especially on their full potential

Or fP

[pearl meadow]

I don't really see how that matter here

[tawdry barn]

With an ability like this

Don’t you think killing them would be extremely easy

While it does ruin running away form a fight

What about engineer

[pearl meadow]

Yea sure you could team up with a gp and just kill everyone, but a gp can already just kill everyone

[tawdry barn]

Not really

Gp’s usually suck

If not then everyone avoids them

But with this ability it makes running absolutely impossible

[pearl meadow]

Which is good

Running ruin the game

[tawdry barn]

And with 7 seconds be long enough for a gp to catch up to the user and get a free kill

[pearl meadow]

Fine I'll lower it to 5s but it ain't going lower

[tawdry barn]

It really needs to be

Actually

I have an idea

You willing to listen though?

[tawdry barn]

A slight proposal if you will

[pearl meadow]

Depend

[tawdry barn]

Make a distance requirement

[pearl meadow]

Nah

Cause any distance ability will exploit that

[tawdry barn]

Just a 5x5 highlighter

[tawdry barn]

But

It makes it so that you don’t get instantly killed or combo’d to death

Because at this point

People won’t just use this version of return to get boss trophies

They’ll use it to get free kills

[pearl meadow]

It's possible

[tawdry barn]

And I’m pretty sure the 4 people here don’t understand that

[tawdry barn]

So you not gonna make it 2-3 seconds?

So it’s actually fair?

[pearl meadow]

Oh actually this has like 15 likes

I made a mastery proposal too

But they're the same

[tawdry barn]

???

I see 4

Wdym 15

[pearl meadow]

https://discord.com/channels/922921165373202463/1454546574263975967

[tawdry barn]

Oh ok

lol

[pearl meadow]

But it's the same

[tawdry barn]

Alr

Welp

I can’t do anything about it

But is it going to be a mastery or just a rework?

[pearl meadow]

Depend what the people want

[tawdry barn]

Welp since I can’t change your mind this is getting a dislike from me, this suggestion turns the tanky ability into a tanky team ability

I hope some actually decent balancers and players see the problem i do

[pearl meadow]

Ok

[cinder wharf]

Did he repost the same thing again?

[pearl meadow]

No you can even see when it was posted

[cinder wharf]

Oh ok.. just made anothet title?

Also how this guys gets the same amout of likes as hate? Return is broken and buffs it and also, it is a repost, HOW?

[pearl meadow]

Original had 16 likes and like 7 dislikes

More people like it than hate it it's just the hater find it back faster

[languid widget]

awful

we dont need return rework

it does what it does

[pearl meadow]

Then why is everyone complaining about it

[languid widget]

cuz theyre bums who use god punch and get neg diffed by a return user

[pearl meadow]

If you think 99% of people are like that (which is obviously wrong) then maybe start thinking differently

[languid widget]

nope thats everyone

[pearl meadow]

Literally all skill level think return is bad and boring

[languid widget]

return isnt bad

[pearl meadow]

It's boring

[languid widget]

and sure its boring cuz its just default but

imagine like

midas but can revive

dont u think thats a bit op

[pearl meadow]

Its default with 5s of invincibility

The E is literally not even an ability

[languid widget]

it sets ur respawn

that sounds like an ability to me

[pearl meadow]

Oh woah save me 3s it take to come back

[languid widget]

ok but like

respawning is cringe

unnecesary return hate

[pearl meadow]

I'm not hating

[languid widget]

just put the return rework in the bag

[pearl meadow]

I'm making it differently

People don't use it for a reason

[languid widget]

not rlly a rework

u just added energy and a tp move

[crude vale]

Honestly return WAS fun with pap

And a corrupted banana

[languid widget]

fax

[pearl meadow]

Pap?

[languid widget]

what ever happened to pap

[crude vale]

It was basically an ability of it’s own

[languid widget]

why they take it out

[pearl meadow]

Oh packapunch

[crude vale]

I mean

Return speed orb and corrupted banana was like a ranged and speedy ability

With invincibility

That’s a whole thing on its own

[pearl meadow]

I mean yea it was OP with some ability

[crude vale]

Wait

What

If

The ultimate return rework is to give it a built in pap