this changes..
#Alchemist (Mastery) Rebalancing & Additions
tacit violet
Wait 2.5x...
Wouldn't it give the pots their old damage
Welp 2s windups to the throws would make sense
Yeah I don't see any issues
meager blaze
Does throwing pots also have a 2 second windup
hearty jasper
this.. this is best balance suggestion EVER
olive leaf
Does throwing pots also have a 2 second windup
yeah, it does
meager blaze
yeah, it does
Interesting
2 seconds of windup before you can chug/throw a potion does seem a lil bit harsh
One problem I have with alch is
Unmodified pots have almost 100% uptime
Last almost as long as the cooldown for E
And you can stack them
So people can just turn off brain and spam speed pots with barely any downtime
olive leaf
2 seconds of windup before you can chug/throw a potion does seem a lil bit harsh
yeah, i tried to make using potions have more risk while keeping them powerful if they're used carefully
meager blaze
yeah, i tried to make using potions have more risk while keeping them powerful i...
How long do unmodified potions last again?
olive leaf
How long do unmodified potions last again?
i think they last for around 15 seconds
meager blaze
i think they last for around 15 seconds
They should last less than 15 seconds
Alch ams should get a rework in general though because it's entire kit is stat buffs
olive leaf
They should last less than 15 seconds
shouldn't it be okay to stay at 15 seconds because the windup makes drinking potions leave the user vulnerable?
meager blaze
shouldn't it be okay to stay at 15 seconds because the windup makes drinking pot...
A 2 second windup is pretty harsh, you gotta admit
Especially because it slows you
And any bit of knockback (not ragdoll, knockback) could end up in the potion backfiring
tacit violet
A 2 second windup is pretty harsh, you gotta admit
Which is fantastic
meager blaze
And that applies to every single potion
Which effectively cripples pot stacking
yeahhhh a bit overkill now that I think about it
meager blaze
Which is fantastic
Alch mas should just get a rework
tacit violet
yeahhhh a bit overkill now that I think about it
Strongest ability deserves it
tacit violet
We want to balance it
It's still goos
meager blaze
Especially because the currect concept sucks
tacit violet
Just gain distance
tacit violet
Alch mas should just get a rework
Maybe
meager blaze
All stat no abilities
tacit violet
But it just received one 😨
meager blaze
But it just received one 😨
Not even a rework though
tacit violet
Aye
meager blaze
Probably some reprogramming and a new addition, does not classify at a "rework"
tacit violet
Unironically I like slap battles alchemist more
Dude that's stupid
It's STILL stat shticks
meager blaze
Dude that's stupid
Have you even used it
tacit violet
And it requires a fucking wiki
meager blaze
Like at all
tacit violet
Have you even used it
Yes.
meager blaze
And it requires a fucking wiki
Obviously there's those flaws
And yet, I still think it was better executed than this atrocity of an ability
tacit violet
It's lame, heck it's less creative than ability wars some how
meager blaze
Brb
tacit violet
And yet, I still think it was better executed than this atrocity of an ability
Oh god no
Stat shticks that require wikis with even more busted effects are lame
Heck the actual effects u can get from it are much more lame
meager blaze
Stat shticks that require wikis with even more busted effects are lame
It has more to it's kit than stat buffs
tacit violet
It has more to it's kit than stat buffs
AW has more!
tacit violet
It has more to it's kit than stat buffs
Ok bro like what
olive leaf
A 2 second windup is pretty harsh, you gotta admit
would it be okay if it was a 1.5 second windup instead?
meager blaze
would it be okay if it was a 1.5 second windup instead?
I suppose
tacit violet
Wiki ability bro
tacit violet
bump
vital linden
I don't like this, but @meager blaze is here, so my opinion doesn't really matter, now does it?
engineer already got gutted
engineer was the only ability I cared about
and now its trash
teleporter was given a windup
without instant teleporters, you can't make funni void trapped planes
oh and also, it's flight boundary has been shrunken down way too much.
You can't even go on top of the lobby.
If u try, ur plane just dissapears.
You can still make skybases, but thats basically the only thing engie can do now. It's just skybases and cars.
Engineer now is basically only good as a support class, and frankly, a support class is not worth 200 souls.
Without the ability for planes to be used on offense, engineer basically has no good offensive capabilities. The best use for current engineer is creating sky bases for your teammates, and carrying said teammates around the map on your plane. Engineer cannot be used on its own, not effectively at least. Given how insanely OP unlimited flight is, engineer is by far the best support class in the game, but it's still only a support class.
olive leaf
but it's supposed to make alchemist more fair and fun to fight while having around the same power as it currently does if it's used carefully, why should it be deleted?
olive leaf
wouldn't this rebalance just make alchemist more fun to use and fight?
would it be better if there were more special potion combinations and the currently existing ones were buffed?
olive leaf
there could be potions like a crystallized quake one that makes the user take damage when they jump, a crystallized fungal step one that makes the user spread damaging mushrooms, and special combinations for jello potions with all other ingredients
olive leaf
i know, i was giving ideas for crystallized variants of those two potions because they don't have any
olive leaf
okay, i updated the suggestion
olive leaf
Alchemist (Mastery) Additions & Rebalance
uneven jetty
Alchemist mastery should be smth like slap battles. Collecting the ingredients and instead of potions being purely stat buffs they can be more like compact abilities
All I know is slap battles alchemist collects ingredients and I think that would be cool.
meager blaze
Alchemist mastery should be smth like slap battles. Collecting the ingredients a...
Ok not exactly like SB alch
Just rework current alch to be less of a stat stick and not "camp in a cave for 3 minutes to become god for 15 seconds" simulator
olive leaf
Just rework current alch to be less of a stat stick and not "camp in a cave for ...
isn't that solved by this suggestion?
meager blaze
isn't that solved by this suggestion?
no it just nerfs it, it needs a full rework instead
most people will STILL use the stat buffs
over the unique effects
cobalt flicker
maybe ill cook.
olive leaf
no it just nerfs it, it needs a full rework instead
doesn't it make stacking potions and using them all at once less viable because doing that would take a lot of time off of the effects from the windup?
cobalt flicker
i dont believe that alch users care about that slight inconvenience if theyre already using speed potions
meager blaze
doesn't it make stacking potions and using them all at once less viable because ...
it is still a stat stick
olive leaf
it is still a stat stick
what do you mean by "stat stick"?
meager blaze
what do you mean by "stat stick"?
big stats
thin valve
lowkey they should add more stuff you can mix in it, or being able to pickup stuff from map and throw it in
north sail
hey I don't know if this has been brought up already because I'm too lazy to read all that, but would the drinking cooldown apply to all potions I drink during that time, or is the cooldown separate for each potion
olive leaf
hey I don't know if this has been brought up already because I'm too lazy to rea...
it's a windup, not a cooldown
north sail
but still, would the windup apply to every potion I drink?
olive leaf
but still, would the windup apply to every potion I drink?
yeah, it would
north sail
that'd nerf alchemist to the ground
you can't stack potions anymore because the windup would take all the time
potion would run out
olive leaf
you can't stack potions anymore because the windup would take all the time
no, potion effects last for around 15 seconds, so using 5 potions in a row would mean that the effect from the first potion used would still last for 7.5 seconds
north sail
still that would nerf it insanely
no longer used for dos killing
because pot would run out before they get close to dos
or any other player in fact
They'd spend more time farming potions than actually using them
olive leaf
or any other player in fact
that shouldn't happen unless the potions were used far away from the target player, and even then, only the first effect used would run out
north sail
um, idk about you but no one farms pots right next to the person they try and kill
and no, every effect before you actually start attacking would run out
potions all run out at same time, the timer is stacked
olive leaf
potions all run out at same time, the timer is stacked
it's not
north sail
buddy, if you used 5 potions and stacked them together, by your logic you should have around a minute of potion use
but no
olive leaf
buddy, if you used 5 potions and stacked them together, by your logic you should...
i meant that using 5 potions in a row makes only the effect of the first potion used last around 7.5 seconds
north sail
dude. no
The timer stacks
if you spam click pots as of now, they all run out around the same time
so if you have a 1.5s windup, you take all that time from pots previously used
olive leaf
so if you have a 1.5s windup, you take all that time from pots previously used
yeah, but for example, the very last potion used wouldn't lose any time from it, and the second to last one used would only lose 1.5 seconds from it
north sail
at that point just don't stack potions
your logic doesn't make sense
if all the potions before get their time wasted, what's the point of wasting YOUR time crafting all of them?
olive leaf
if all the potions before get their time wasted, what's the point of wasting YOU...
that change is supposed to discourage stacking potions using alchemist, because doing that takes a lot of time and just makes the user temporarily have very high stats which lets them become a nearly unavoidable threat to any player
north sail
that's the point of the ability
to buff yourself
you'd think checken would add a cap to pots if needed
olive leaf
to buff yourself
wouldn't alchemist be more fun to use and fight if it has a windup for using potions so it needs to be used more carefully?
north sail
no it'd be annoying for the alchemist user
there wouldn't be one to fight bc no one would use it
olive leaf
no it'd be annoying for the alchemist user
how would it be annoying?
north sail
A. No stacking potions
B. Annoying wind-up
C. useless because the whole point is to buff yourself, but with this idea you can barely do that
idk if you main dos or something, but I've never had a problem where I was being annoyed by a pot stacking alchem
it takes enough time getting the potions as is
sorry, but no one would play this ability if this gets added, the 1.5s wind-up is too much of a nerf
olive leaf
C. useless because the whole point is to buff yourself, but with this idea you c...
but alchemist can still be used to buff the user even with the windup, it would just be discouraged to not be used carefully and have multiple buffs active at once without a good reason
north sail
it's not discouraged, by your logic it isn't allowed
there's no "use carefully" when you can't even touch someone before the pots wear out
wdym without a good reason
olive leaf
there's no "use carefully" when you can't even touch someone before the pots wea...
why don't you just not use all 5 potions at once, or use them close to another player so the effects won't run out before you can reach them?
north sail
cooldown
your wind up
wdym
the wind-up would leave you defenseless
I doubt you'd be able to attack during it, leaving you vulnerable
olive leaf
the wind-up would leave you defenseless
can't you just keep a slight distance before coming closer?
olive leaf
how about they come up to you?
that's the point, it's supposed to be risky
north sail
buddy, I'm not supposed to gamble with alchemist
it's a straight forward ability about buffing yourself
I can tell you with 99% certainty, that people would complain a lot if this was added
like when coffee was deleted
olive leaf
it's a straight forward ability about buffing yourself
why is making alchemist more skill-based a bad thing?
north sail
you'd think there's a reason after all these years, checken didn't add a cap or some sort of limitation to alchemist
sure, alchemist takes no skill, but I don't see a need to nerf it
I don't see power hungry alchemist running around killing everyone
or literally anyone else complaining about alchemist having too many potions
olive leaf
you'd think there's a reason after all these years, checken didn't add a cap or ...
but there is, there's a limit of 5 potions being used in the span of 10 seconds
olive leaf
never experienced it even tho I stack pots
#change-logs message that change is mentioned in this changelog
north sail
probably the effects, not the pots themselves
still, this is the most they've thought to do
no need to do more when they already restrict potion use apparently
olive leaf
sure, alchemist takes no skill, but I don't see a need to nerf it
it's not supposed to be a direct nerf, there's other changes to alchemist in this suggestion that are supposed to make up for the windup like crystallized potions not being less potent than normal ones
north sail
yes, but the part I'm concered about is the 1.5s windup
it's just not needed
it would probably ruin the ability if added
olive leaf
it would probably ruin the ability if added
but 1.5 seconds isn't even that long
north sail
not that it's long, it wastes the potion use too
you already wait a while for a temporary buff
olive leaf
you already wait a while for a temporary buff
shouldn't that be okay because the buff lasts for almost the same amount of time as the cooldown for getting another potion is?
north sail
only if you don't use milk
olive leaf
only if you don't use milk
a normal potion effect only lasts for around 5 seconds less than the cooldown for getting another potion does
north sail
yes, but with your cooldown it'd just widen the gap
or would it technically shorten, idk
olive leaf
yes, but with your cooldown it'd just widen the gap
okay, i don't know else to explain why i think that alchemist having a windup for using potions would be better
north sail
just remove the windup
then the suggestion would be good bc alchem is kind of bland
the slowness during windup is also what's stopping it
along with the shared potion effects?
remove that entire section and that'd be good
bitter urchin
just remove the windup
Ye
silent spindle
sure, alchemist takes no skill, but I don't see a need to nerf it
"A thing is op, dont nerf it lol"
cold ice
I like the windup but because im too salty about alchemist make it so every time you get punched you lose 1 stack of the effect (since it takes 3 drinks of a potion to gain its full power)
silent spindle
I like the windup but because im too salty about alchemist make it so every time...
the first yes and mastered alchemist doesnt have the stack effect
like you drink it once
you drink the entire bottle
thats only for unmastered
cold ice
the first yes and mastered alchemist doesnt have the stack effect
for mastered if you get hit the effect loses 15% of its potency up to 75%
to combat skill issues
silent spindle
true...
what about mastered tho
mastereds the main problem
unmastered atleast has some leverage being forced to restock once in a while
or that the pots dont make you temu godpunch
and im saying this as an alchemist main
silent spindle
i think we should give some love to jello and moss
oh
thats
great actually
but that pretty much kills the ability if its 25%
cold ice
so for unmastered it loses a stack and for mastered it loses 25% per hit
silent spindle
so id suggest 15% up to 80%
cause like losing an affect just because you got punched 4 times
iiis kinda punishing
like a lot
silent spindle
I just really dislike alchemist users
i can see why
imagine youre playing as engineer,
peacefully
building your contraptions
(mastered)
and then the child of god falls down to you
using a 4 moss milk potion
to get to your location
and a 4 cake milk potion
to send you straight to the sun
and if you fight back?
they pop a 4 sugar milk potion
and then instantly punch you straight to the sun
cold ice
I dont enjoy engineers so cant relate
silent spindle
i do enjoy engi sometimes
cold ice
most of the time their "peaceful builds" are just cars to commit mass vehicular manslaughter
silent spindle
most of the time their "peaceful builds" are just cars to commit mass vehicular ...
(oopsies)
cold ice
Also I feel like engineer players always get so infuriated easily
silent spindle
but god do i love terrorizing mastery ufos using mastered alch
cold ice
yet they play a class that requires the most patience and accuracy
silent spindle
yet they play a class that requires the most patience and accuracy
i feel like the reason for that is the fact that they died to some random while building their super mega structure for the 9 nonillionth time
cold ice
i feel like the reason for that is the fact that they died to some random while ...
"how dare they destroy my server wiping build! Buff engineer and make it so you can save your builds!"
silent spindle
"how dare they destroy my server wiping build! Buff engineer and make it so you ...
dont forget lava exists
plus it does get infuriating after you die for the 500th time
cold ice
atp just change servers
silent spindle
just to create some awesome car that will get terrorized if the server has 2 braincells
silent spindle
atp just change servers
every server does it tho
cold ice
build it in the sky and pray nobody has hero of justice
or wants to use it against them
silent spindle
build it in the sky and pray nobody has hero of justice
mech
alchemist mastery
(with proper setup)
meteor (pray)
and uh
bounty hunter mastery if your lucky
like super lucky
cold ice
any move that has no gravity and can aim omnidirectionally
silent spindle
which really makes you notice how flawed that method is
plus you cant build on top of the lobby anymore
or near it
every part that gets near just goes pop
cold ice
yeah didnt they lower the break line
silent spindle
yeah didnt they lower the break line
you cant make giga builds and then go ontop of the lobby to repair them anymore
cold ice
I remember seeing someone who made a mech on a public server
like a whole mech
using engineer
and it was genuinely one of the coolest contraption I had ever seen
low sluice
Honestly i only find speed potion and water (Makes it harder to get out of combos and stuff and potions with water can overlap giving you a permanent advantage).
Also, you can only use 5 potions every 10 secs
so stacking isn't really in its prime anymore
wintry locust
I NEED TP UP ON THE SUGGEETOON
olive leaf
okay, here
wintry locust
Thx
echo scarab
alchemist doesn’t need shit bro just straight up delete it from the game
olive leaf
alchemist doesn’t need shit bro just straight up delete it from the game
wouldn't it be better if alchemist was more fair and fun to fight than if it was removed?
echo scarab
idk but I feel like some ppl might find a way to make it op
even with all these balance changes (cool suggestion btw)
olive leaf
idk but I feel like some ppl might find a way to make it op
wouldn't be okay if it had more weaknesses and required a lot of skill to be powerful when used?
olive leaf
even with all these balance changes (cool suggestion btw)
thank you!
amber geyser
You can still make skybases, but thats basically the only thing engie can do now...
tlak about a crashout
olive leaf
is it really you?
yeah, it is
hushed parcel
yeah, it is
its been a while do you remember me?
olive leaf
its been a while do you remember me?
yeah, i remember you
hushed parcel
yeah, i remember you
i still have the old tier list i made of members and you were in hell 🥹
olive leaf
i still have the old tier list i made of members and you were in hell 🥹
i'm sorry for the way that i acted in the past
hushed parcel
i'm sorry for the way that i acted in the past
lol no worries man me too
olive leaf
lol no worries man me too
okay, i forgive you
olive leaf
Alchemist (Mastery) Rebalancing & Additions