Devourer of Souls Rework: Because it actually needs it.

[tough ginkgo]

Okay, so I want to start this by talking about why I think this needs to happen. Dos (and killstreaks as a whole) do not work as a game mechanic. You only like playing DOS if you have atleast 10 souls or more, and everyone hates fighting against DOS. It isn't even the attack power, it's the speed. Roblox servers simply can't reliably relay the position of a dos player to anyone else in time for them to properly punch first most of the time. There are rare exceptions, but it's only when the DOS somehow manages to miss.
Roblox netcode will always have it so the DOS will be closer to you on their screens, than you are on yours. That's how you get the sensation of them hitting you from meters away.
So, this is what we're going to do:

• Speed is now softcapped at 28 (doesn't stop the weird telepunch problem, but mitigates it)
• Damage and knockback reduced

• Each phase grants a phase-exclusive ability (typically long cooldowns around 15-30 seconds, but grants killing power/utility)
• Additional phases between the long stretches of the same phase for variety

I know alot of people will be dismissive about it. But I think Dos (and killstreaks as a whole) are inherently flawed roblox game tropes that aren't fun for anyone but the person steamrolling a server. If we're so concerned about preserving fun, then we'll fix DOS too. We've already nerfed most of DOS's counterpicks, then Dos needs it as well.

Ability list in comments since the post is getting too long.

Ability graph:

Phase 1 (0-14) (Fire fist) [CD15]: Obtained upon reaching 3 souls, you're given a short-ranged punch that can hit hard, and do alot of damage.
Phase 2 (15-34) (Revolting Aura) [CD20]: Obtained upon hitting phase 2, it's an AOE attack that lowers the speed of those around you to 12 for 1 seconds. It's an escape move but also a counter offensive option.
Phase 3 (35-69) (Force of will) [CD20]: Obtained upon hitting phase 3, you briefly stand still, and release a wide, powerful shockwave from your body, ragdolling and pushing everyone away. It doesn't do damage, but can knock people out if positioning is ideal.
Phase 4 (70-99) : -It's the same-
Phase 5 (100-199) : (Light spear) [CD30]: Obtained upon hitting phase 5, you fire a single, thin projectile after a brief windup. Anyone hit by the spear is pretty much doomed to die, but it's idea for taking out a distant, troublesome target.
Phase 6 (200-299) : (Binding Spirit): [CD 25]: Unleash portals from the floor in front of you in a linear pattern, firing chains upwards from the portal that stick anyone other than yourself to them for 2 seconds. While the other phases encourage others to get in closer, this one encourages more thoughtful, distant playstyles. Even then, they have to watch out for your ability.
Phase 7 (300+) : -It's the same, it's perfect as is since it's basically the reward for hard, troublesome work. Softcaps still apply however.-

[true kiln]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/936087908631343105/1349226857710620772/meme-1.gif

[tough ginkgo]

The reason i'm very harsh on the speed stat is only because Roblox really sucks at predictive positioning. Once you're fast enough, you're untouchable as long as everyone elses ping is looming at 70 (Which is good, but not good enough).

[true kiln]

What happens to the original 35-200 and 200-300 abilities

[tough ginkgo]

there's an ability at 45?

*35

[true kiln]

Yes

Like 5 seconds of iframes

[tough ginkgo]

That's at phase 4

[true kiln]

Oh wait

75

Anyways, so what happens to those

[tough ginkgo]

Phase 4 gets it, but every phase after overwrites it, like any other phase exclusive ability

[true kiln]

So 100 doesn't have the iframe ability anymore?

[tough ginkgo]

It has it's own ability

[true kiln]

Ehhhhh

I mean

Considering that super heavily reduced the speed

It not having 2 abilities is a bit harsh

Especially because it's ability wars

[tough ginkgo]

I think one ability is enough, it's about how you use it.

It's also meant to change up how people fight you

[true kiln]

I feel like you overnerfed it

28 speed hard cap

[tough ginkgo]

hmm, 32 then?

[true kiln]

Is super harsh

Especially becayse

It has only 1 ability per phase

[tough ginkgo]

Well remember, it's to work within Roblox's netcode restrictions

[true kiln]

And no passives other than soul gain

[lunar edge]

this suggestion seems cool, as of right now dos is really unfun to use (atleast for me) until i get 15 souls, i don't really think it needs many changes personally

[tough ginkgo]

It can be changed

[true kiln]

You couldn't strenghen other attributes?

[tough ginkgo]

There's not really many to choose

Defense, HP, Attack Power

[true kiln]

You couldn't allow 2 abilities?

[tough ginkgo]

I don't want an over-reliance on them, it'd cause the opposite problem... But maybe

Im not against it entirely

But, I want each phase to feel like a different flavor

[true kiln]

You could make phases have 2 abilities

[tough ginkgo]

Something that challenges the player who is DOS to think differently about their tool set, and the other players to change up tactics to match its weaknessess accordingly

[true kiln]

You have strong stats (big damage, big health and good speed)

And strong abilities

Good balance

[tough ginkgo]

That'd be too much work for the dev's I think. 1 is enough, but maybe the single ability they have could be stronger?

Because that's almost 12 unique abilities

Exclusive to 1

[true kiln]

You know how 75-200 has iframes right?

Also also

[tough ginkgo]

Yeah, I gave it exclusively to phase 4

[true kiln]

How much damage does each ability do

[true kiln]

You could also give it to 100-200, so it has 2 abilities

Good stats, good abilities

[tough ginkgo]

I didn't want to give solid numbers since I don't actually know the average HP a player has.

[true kiln]

Perfectly balanced

[true kiln]

100

Player stats are in suggestion guidelines

Go look

[tough ginkgo]

I'm not against this for phase 6, going for a chain theme on that one

[true kiln]

Phase 6 could have the new thing and the old thing

Hell

The old thing could be super helpful

To give it a temporary surge of mobility

[tough ginkgo]

Maybe, but I think a more offensive ability would be more fun for players

I'd prefer an ability used to appraoch players instead of running away

*approach

[true kiln]

I still believe phases 100-200 and 200-300 should have both the old abilities and the new abilities that you have proposed

Since the huge speed cap is super harsh

So to counter it, it should have good abilities

[tough ginkgo]

There's alot to consider, I'd prefer keeping it one ability, and adjusting softcaps on stats based around that instead

I'm not against raising the cap higher, but i'd prefer it remain lower than it is now in the game currently.

@leaden night I'm not sure if this is the type of Suggestion you EXACTLY want to review, but i'd like your feedback.

Wait fuck, I should've read further, I thought I was supposed to ping if I wanted my idea reviewed, but I should've thought about if that'd be okay with the reviewer

[leaden night]

🤔

[leaden night]

nah i dont really care

only if suggestions are low effort will i be mad about being pinged

[true kiln]

The main issue with dos is that it's a fat stat stick and has barely any bad matchups

[leaden night]

uh im not really a dos user or someone who cares about balancing it

However i know who is

@wary spoke @craggy mason

[tough ginkgo]

I'm open to changes, but I don't know which ones to make. I'm heavily against the high speed cap it has since Roblox Netcode can't properly interpret positioning at certain pings, even low ones.

Even I honestly am struggling on figuring out balancing for this

[simple tartan]

I didnt read much of it but I have found so many better suggestions to turn dos into well an actual boss fight but you did good kid

[tough ginkgo]

Uhh, thanks? That's a bit of a dismissive and condescending way of putting it...

[simple tartan]

It is but I am the top of dismissive

I dont know what you expect

[tough ginkgo]

I dunno man, i'm just trying my hardest

[solid rover]

i am somebody who is CRAZY about dos and i'd say this suggestion should be added

i do think the speed debuff is a LITTLE to harsh though

you have to imagine half the server is using glue and god punch a lot of the time, so i feel like the speed of this rework should be bumped a bit

but i see your point about latency, and how that makes dos incredibly difficult to actually fight back against

maybe you should get like the 70 soul speed once you reach 200 though because that's a pretty big milestone and at that point you deserve it

[tough ginkgo]

I suppose, but my idea is that when an adjusted Dos... People like that might be less prone to using those abilities. They'll be using what they might actually enjoy using

[solid rover]

maybe a little more but

let's be real here

ability wars players will pull out gp for ANYTHING

[tough ginkgo]

best way to rationalize their decision... Is to take it as a sign of defeat from them.

[tough ginkgo]

Okay so, how's speed cap of 40

[untold bay]

remove dos

thats the solution

[tough ginkgo]

It's unrealistic that'd happen. I'd personally like that, but I know it'd make more people unhappy than it would happy.

[untold bay]

mabye they should just raise the punch amount

dos should be the final thing you get imo

[tough ginkgo]

No, that'd piss even more people off somehow. It'd make the possibility of getting engineer feel even more hopeless. I'd prefer if Dos was reworked into something entirely new.

[untold bay]

your gonna need atleast 100k to be even good enough to get engineer anyways?

and this is just a bandage solution

[tough ginkgo]

Depends, It's rare but some Dos are willing to hand over souls to others to help finish their quest as well.

Honestly, I think my Reaper rework/mastery idea might fit as a Dos substitute.

[untold bay]

reworking it rn isnt a option cuz reworks take time

and theres other stuff that need it more like lava

[opaque trench]

we do not need a damn rework 😭

[spare crater]

28 speed? any alc user can kill dosses too easily with that

[tough ginkgo]

We have to do something with speed in general. Too high and you can't hit them before they hit you. Server limitation.

[tough ginkgo]

It's artificially buffed by Roblox server limitations. It needs a rework the most out of all the abilities currently, regardless of how any of us feel about it.

[opaque trench]

The 32 abilities that can counter dos:

The speed has been high af since the very beginning of ability wars

[tough ginkgo]

never should've been like that at the start ngl

[opaque trench]

Oh you did not have to deal with prime dos

[tough ginkgo]

I'd prefer a "gun-game" mechanic where you'd get new abilities that get progressively stronger for every kill honestly.

[tough ginkgo]

Do not make assumptions, I have dealt with prime dos.

There's no real mark of honor for it. I think we can agree on that.

[opaque trench]

Yeah and the abilites are probably gonna be shit

[tough ginkgo]

Isn't saying that like saying something is bad before you try it?

[opaque trench]

Yeah but dos is ment to be more of a passive and not all e ability

[tough ginkgo]

That's what made Dos broken to start with though.

[opaque trench]

Prime dos:

[tough ginkgo]

No one likes to deal with it

[tough ginkgo]

Please try to focus here. I'm trying to have a fair discussion here, man.

[opaque trench]

The highest speed is 80 rn for 199 dos before 200

[tough ginkgo]

Yeah, the server's can't properly keep up with that.

[opaque trench]

200 is a weak phase you can kill it since it nolonger has the dodge ability anymore

[tough ginkgo]

You're missing my point, please don't change the subject. I'll try to explain this the best I can

So, when a dos moves towards a person. The Dos on their screen is closer to the target on their screen, than the target is to the dos on the targets screen.

They're loosely sync'd.

However, because the dos will always reach them faster, they get the "right of way" for a free punch almost every time.

[opaque trench]

So is alch with speed pots

[tough ginkgo]

Alch is short bursts

It's still bad with alch, but atleast its more controlled and has durations

Alch isn't the topic of discussion though, lets focus for a minute

[opaque trench]

I killed alch many times when they tried yo attack me while they are at high speeds

Hell i even killed a 300 dos as a 0 phase

[tough ginkgo]

More than likely due to them missing the first punch, your ability to defend yourself is contingent on them missing, nothing you can do but evade.

[tough ginkgo]

This doesn't change anything currently. As far as I know, they just reset to give you souls.

[opaque trench]

His body was like freaking out and teleporting while i was comboing him

[tough ginkgo]

So, currently as i've said. We need to lower Dos speed.

It's generally more fair all-around for the most part.

[opaque trench]

MAN LEAVE DOS ALO- anyway

/e dance

[tough ginkgo]

Man, i'm trying to be civil about this. Why do you have to be like this? Trying my hardest to see your view here, but you're focused on proving me wrong instead of sharing your view.

I'm tired

I still don't know how to space the abilities out though

Maybe via phases, but ehh, maybe smaller phases within the phases? Like, the beginning of a phase has the weakest form of the specific ability, but by the end of that phase, it's the best it can be before the next phase.

[digital grove]

That really isn’t what I think would be good

As someone who often targets dos, I find it fun when the dos is quite quick

What I would really like though is for higher phase dos to have longer ragdoll time

Because most of the time I can only get a single hit in before they teleport away

Really, at 35+ increase ragdoll time to 5 seconds

Would make hitting dos with punches more rewarding

[tough ginkgo]

Never thought about Ragdoll time. But I'm skeptical if that'd be a good change. Alot of people rely on chain punching to knock them into the abyss.

Any extra time might make the rhythm harder

[digital grove]

what about more stun time?

like they stay upright but cant move or punch

[tough ginkgo]

Hmm, how about this. When a dos is punched. They have to build their strength and speed back up? It takes 3 seconds for them to regain their full speed and power after being ragdolled.

But, it's not like an off/on switch. It literally builds back up. It grows back to their original stat values over the course of those 3 seconds.

[digital grove]

good idea

[opaque trench]

ahh yes gets comboed and cant do shit now

man just use snowball not that hard

[opaque trench]

just no bro :(

get hit once and a god punch appears

now im dead

great

[tough ginkgo]

Isn't that the case for every ability? You know there's a trick to escaping it, right?

[opaque trench]

there aint if your slowed

not giving you time to escape at all

[tough ginkgo]

My idea is that you're slowed to default speed and ramp back up to full. Sorry, I probably should've been more detailed ^^"

[opaque trench]

also just use snowball to kill dos

very easy to do

i straight up killed a exploiter dos with this as well (he had 35+)

[tough ginkgo]

Cool bro

Also, not that easy once they're at 20. They'll home in one snowball users FAST

[opaque trench]

no no its still easy to do it with snowball

i died with 250 to a snowball

[tough ginkgo]

God bless snowball

[digital grove]

They just kill the snowball user fast

[opaque trench]

yeah but lowkey dos mains like me are stupid and ignore them like a dumbass and also they dont look at the damn wiki