NERF ALCHEMIST

[sly dust]

ALCHEMIST LITERALLY HAS AN INSTANT HEAL AND INSANE SPEED, I WAS PLAYING IN A SERVER AND I WAS TRYING TO KILL THIS GUY BUT ALL HE DID WAS INSTANT HEAL AND RUN INSANELY FAST AND I COULDNT DO ANYTHING AGAINST HIM

[red scarab]

as someone who uses alch.. yeah nerf it. speed potions are what carries it as a melee ability (mast fixes the instant healing thing, so carrying that over might be best)

[rich escarp]

how do you want it nerfed?

[sly dust]

I want the speed potion to be nerfed by 10%-25% and I want the heal to be nerfed as well by 10%-30%.

[hard radish]

no

speed already got nerfed

it was op

i feel liike maybe unmastered regen potion

needs nerf

cuz it instant heals

unlike mastery

[sly dust]

It should be like a little faster than rabbit's Q ability instead of 2x faster or whatever it is

imo

[hard radish]

bro they nerfed the speed from 15 to 10

if someones rushing at u its also very easy to counter

u have no idea how op speed was

[sly dust]

well in my situation, it wasnt them rushing at me. They were running and i couldn't do anything

[hard radish]

so u just stood there

lmao

[sly dust]

and if its a decent/good player then you are cooked if they rush towards you

[hard radish]

no alch needs no skill thats the thing

its easy to counter

[sly dust]

no, i used rabbit and i used the q to chase them but they were too fast

[hard radish]

rabbit is shit

except the high jumping

if ur tired of runners just use bg

[sly dust]

i main it and it's actually very op

[sly dust]

bg has like no abilities

[hard radish]

exactly

its skill based fighting

new bg so much better then old one fr

[sly dust]

well, it isnt VERY op, its just strong and counters a lot of stuff

[hard radish]

except the pull

[hard radish]

my man rabbit aint countering anything

[fossil slate]

Vro

This guy has a point

Rabbit is ass

And also

Alchemist

Has

Already

Been

Fucking

Nerfed

The speed is ass

It takes like 2 speed pots to get the actual old speed

And also

[sly dust]

if it is bad then i would be able to catch up to them

[fossil slate]

Well its a fucking ability

[sly dust]

it can jump over a lot of stuff and it is a huge counter to paladin

[fossil slate]

It has to have advantages

[sly dust]

well not THAT big of an advantage.

[hard radish]

dude paladin is better then rabbit by so much

[fossil slate]

Well by ur logic

Plasma isnt fair

Freeze isnt fair

Midas isnt fair

[sly dust]

plus, its just my opinion. Idk why yall so mad

[fossil slate]

YOU FUCKING POSTED IT AS A SUGGESTION

[sly dust]

i was also gonna say to nerf midas because it does so much damage

[noble mural]

Specify the exact stat changes

[fossil slate]

YOUR TRYING TO GET AN ALREADY ASS ABILITY NERFED

[hard radish]

low effort ahh suggestion

[fossil slate]

Bro

It does more damage

The more punches u got

Please read the wiki

[sly dust]

i already knew that

[fossil slate]

Cutting off my arm rn if you did

We both know you didnt vro

[noble mural]

Midas does need a nerf

[sly dust]

im saying it needs a nerf to the base damage, not that btw

[noble mural]

Mainly aerial E, R and the scaling passive

[sly dust]

and the R has such a short cooldown

[fossil slate]

You said that the speed pots are op

You dont know how to counter it

[sly dust]

well we werent talking about that lol

[fossil slate]

Everyone knows you can just use bg

[sly dust]

i was talking about midas, why you tryna find an excuse to hate on me

[fossil slate]

How can you nerf smth thats supposed to get more op the more you progress in the game

[noble mural]

Alch mas could use a rework

[fossil slate]

Im not

[noble mural]

It's just a big stat stick

[brazen dagger]

So it can become trash like brick battler? No way!

[sly dust]

i said it should nerf the base damage. READ THE MESSAGE

[noble mural]

No nerf the scaling

[hard radish]

U did not

[noble mural]

The scaling literally goes up to like 1.56×

And that should be reduced

[fossil slate]

HOW

[noble mural]

To a more manageable amount

[fossil slate]

ITS GONNA GET MORE OP ANYWAYS

[brazen dagger]

Many abilities like cheese, soda, hive mind, and plant have been ruined by nerfs, we don't need anymore abilities ruined.

[fossil slate]

NO POINT IN NERFING THE DANAGE

[fossil slate]

Real, i can already smell the "nerfed brick battler" on the next update log

[noble mural]

Plqnt and hive are still solid

The hell you mean ruined

[sly dust]

im not saying to nerf it too much, im saying for it to be a little faster than bunny Q

which is fair

[fossil slate]

Plant is default with extra steps

[sly dust]

in my opinion

[hard radish]

It is

???

[noble mural]

so is pretty much any ability then

Soda is default with extra steps

Teleport

oooo look midas is default with extra steps

[fossil slate]

Vro, just say nerf the cooldowns

[hard radish]

No

[dusky oak]

alchibi toilet

[sly dust]

i said it should be a little faster, not just faster.

it should be like 2-4 more speed

[fossil slate]

You can use the r every 2 seconds vro

[brazen dagger]

Hive mind minions used to have the ability to infect others but now they can't anymore. Plant used to have extra vines upon low hp but that is gone. Making both hive mind and plant husks of their former selfs.

[noble mural]

2-4 more speed what

[hard radish]

Dude alch is already faster then rabbit

[noble mural]

big overstatement, they are still strong

[fossil slate]

Tfym 2-4 speed

[dusky oak]

im pretty sure that this is because of a bug but its one of those bugs that they refuse to fix for whatever reason

the hivemind thing

[noble mural]

Plant has a lot of good matchups

[hard radish]

R???

[noble mural]

And hice has huge stats

[hard radish]

Plant can fucking inf combo

[noble mural]

The minions are useless anyway

[sly dust]

2-4 more walkspeed than rabbit

[fossil slate]

Midas r ya hmar

[noble mural]

Exactly, and he says it's bad

[hard radish]

Oh

[fossil slate]

GNG 2 WALKSPEED IS NOTHING

[sly dust]

thats why i said 2-4.

[hard radish]

So u tryna buff it???

What

😭

[fossil slate]

YOU CANT EVEN INF COMBO WITH 16 OR 18 WALKSPEED

[noble mural]

What ability gets extra walkspeed what are you TALKING ABOUT

[fossil slate]

youve basically made the ability useless

[hard radish]

Nah fuck this im out

[sly dust]

rn its like 7 more than rabbit

[hard radish]

Yo mods dont add ts

[fossil slate]

YEA BECAUSE RABBIT IS JUMPING AND NOT FUCKING SPEED

[noble mural]

What ability are you talking about

[hard radish]

R u tryna buff rabbit

[brazen dagger]

Still strong but the nerfs made them less fun.

[fossil slate]

Alch

[sly dust]

im talking about Q

[noble mural]

You mean less overpowered?

[fossil slate]

Q is ranged

[noble mural]

Actually why am I talking to you

[hard radish]

Q is speed

e is

[noble mural]

You have shit takes anyway

[hard radish]

egg

[noble mural]

This man likes fighting ufo users

[fossil slate]

Forgor

[sly dust]

Q is a carrot and you eat it to get speed, r u good?

[noble mural]

What the hell is wrong with him

[hard radish]

He doesnt have rabbit sybau

[fossil slate]

i forgot

Mb

[hard radish]

fuck this convo im out

[noble mural]

For reference, a single alch mas speed pot gives you 10 walkspeed

[sly dust]

if he doesnt have rabbit then why is he talking about it in the first place?

[noble mural]

It used to give 15 walkspeed

[sly dust]

if it gives 10, then thats 26 walkspeed in total

they NEED to nerf it

[noble mural]

Base walkspeed in aw is 20

[sly dust]

then its 30

which is worse

[fossil slate]

Potent btw

Which is like 1.5 better

[noble mural]

Nope, normal

Actual, unmodified speed potions

[sly dust]

THAT MAKES IT MORE OP

[fossil slate]

Then there is no reason to include "alch mastery"

[fossil slate]

No its a misunderstanding

[noble mural]

You misunderstood

[fossil slate]

I thought hes talking abt a potent pot

[noble mural]

Normal potions

Mastered alchemist

Non-potent

Potions

[fossil slate]

Alr

[noble mural]

Just unmodified potions

Give 10 walkspeed

[brazen dagger]

You mean less fun

[noble mural]

Get the hell out of here

[brazen dagger]

You don't tell me what to do.

[noble mural]

You don't understand what balancing is

[brazen dagger]

You have no right to boss around other people.

[noble mural]

You have no right to be here

When will you learn that BALANCING is important

"Oh but it becomes less fun" if an ability is overpowered, it's not fun

[sly dust]

you have no reason to speak if all you are gonna do is hate.

[brazen dagger]

So you think everything should be nerfed?

[noble mural]

What is there not to understand

[sly dust]

he never said that

[noble mural]

Everything that is unbalanced

Especially midas and ufo

[sly dust]

and alch

[noble mural]

They are currently the 2 most problematic abilities

Actually blood god too but it needs an entire rework or deletion

[fossil slate]

No, abilities that deserve buffs are like brick battler, which is pretty obvious for why it should be un nerfed or even buffed

This is what balancing is

You need to give the ability and advantage

[brazen dagger]

Why you hate blood god?

[fossil slate]

But not an insane one

[noble mural]

First, everyone hates it

[fossil slate]

No

[noble mural]

Second, I am not bothered to list all the problems rn

[fossil slate]

Alch was op on release

[sly dust]

and it still is

[fossil slate]

But then they balanced it out with the nerfs

YOU DID NOT SEE HOW FAST OLD ALCH WAS

SYBAU

[noble mural]

Alch is just a poor concept in general, you hide in cave, stack pots to become god for 8 seconds, kill your target and then repeat

[sly dust]

plus you even explained why its better by including potent lol

which means it needs a nerf

[noble mural]

It was 5 speed faster

You need 3 current speed pots to replicate the effects of 2 old speed pots

[brazen dagger]

Not everyone, it's one of my favorite abilities.

[sly dust]

you dont even have rabbit my guy.

[noble mural]

no wonder you can't balance things

[fossil slate]

You need to get the mastery for potent, and also, potent in general is a worse choice then longlasting

[noble mural]

It's a blood god main

[brazen dagger]

Every ability already has one.

[fossil slate]

My guy you dont even have brickbattler

[brazen dagger]

Isn't the point of blood god to show the player's skills and is meant for 1v1s?

[sly dust]

i used to be an alch main until i realized it was too OP and then they nerfed it and i played it again but it was still op

[sly dust]

my guy yes i do. Stop judging based off of my roles

[hard radish]

proof?

[fossil slate]

Yea

Believed that 100%

[noble mural]

First, you can keep constantly forcing your enemy into default 1v1s which isn't fun
Second, the duel is biased towards the bg user (they get a full heal and 25 extra max hp)
Third, the duel is usually ping based

[sly dust]

it gives +25 hp in the realm so the only way to beat them is if you have a passive buff or if you are good. Or if the bg user is bad at the game

[noble mural]

The fight is also super ping based

So if they have better ping

You die

[sly dust]

fr

[hard radish]

ok who gives a fuck

[fossil slate]

Even if it does, you need to be better than ur opp to win anyways(and have better ping)

[hard radish]

ping is based everywhere

tf

[fossil slate]

Real

[hard radish]

that doesnt matter

[sly dust]

not everywhere. Plus you are proving his point

[hard radish]

IT IS

if u have ass ping ur dead

[fossil slate]

Tell me a 1v1 scenario where you dont need better ping

[sly dust]

not in every game

[fossil slate]

IT IS IN EVERY FUCKING GAME

unless its single player

[sly dust]

its not only 1v1 games on roblox lol

[sly dust]

EXACTLY

[fossil slate]

Im talking generally about fighting games

[sly dust]

and i'm not

[fossil slate]

Thats why i said a 1v1 scenario

[brazen dagger]

Not bad

[noble mural]

Default 1v1s are the part which is the most ping dependant

And blood god forces you into one

You can see the problem right?

[hard radish]

dawg who cares about other games

were in aw server

so we talkin about aw

[fossil slate]

Real

[hard radish]

dont change the fucking topic

[sly dust]

i wasnt, you guys were

[fossil slate]

Im js gonna say it

[brazen dagger]

Here is the thing, players who spam OP abilities and target you is NOT fun either so god blood solves that issue.

[fossil slate]

Alch aint op

You just got a skill issue

[noble mural]

You know a better solution?
Balance changes

[fossil slate]

And you dont know how to correctly chase sm1 with higher walkspeed

[noble mural]

If there are op abilities, then they need a nerf

[sly dust]

so instant health and insane speed every 20 seconds isnt op?

[fossil slate]

Not an instant heal, its called a regen potion for a reason

And they are banned in most 1v1s

So no

Your not proving anything

[sly dust]

im talking about not mastery

[fossil slate]

You can legit catch them because the speed only lasts for about 10 seconds

[sly dust]

and i am talking about pub servers

[sly dust]

20 speed chasing 30+ speed for 10 seconds is NOT gonna happen unless you cut them off somehow

[fossil slate]

Also, just be smart and predict where theyll go, facing more op abilities makes you better at general pvp and predicting

[hard radish]

bros making all this shit because an alch suer prob annoyed him

[sly dust]

they can see you and go another way

[sly dust]

im not, its all facts.

also, didnt you say you were gonna leave the convo?

[fossil slate]

If you really want smth op, look at spring, it has a fully unescapeable inf combo

[sly dust]

spring got nerfed

and it is buns now

[hard radish]

no its not

[fossil slate]

Inf comvo still duable

[hard radish]

its still the best ability in the game

[sly dust]

i mained it before the nerf and that was op but now its more fair

[hard radish]

dawg u didnt even play untill last month sybau

[sly dust]

not even CLOSE

[fossil slate]

Did u also main robot?

[sly dust]

no

its buns

imo

[hard radish]

did u also main all admin abilities??

[sly dust]

i wonder

[fossil slate]

And vampire too?

Like legit

Its js a skill issue

[sly dust]

i used it once and i didnt like it that much

yk, im not a new player. I have been playing for a while and thats how i have a lot of mains. Even tho i only mained like 5 things in total

[mossy kestrel]

they're 10 speed faster than you if you dont have any mobility abilities. i don't think you can catch them bro

also +10 total speed is enough to combo them and deal 70% of their hp or knock them into the void

alchemist is one of the worst balanced abilities oat

and you can literally just stack up on potions. we're talking about individual potions but stacking potions are op. you can easily stack up on potions

also can we talk about how alchemist can turn into a 100 soul DOS with just 6 strength potions and 6 speed potions

you cant tell me thats fairly balanced gang

[fossil slate]

For what

8 secs?

[mossy kestrel]

You said 10

[sly dust]

exactly

[mossy kestrel]

but its still enough to get multiple kills

and thats not fun to go against

[sly dust]

its enough to get 2-5 kills, maybe even more if you are really good

[mossy kestrel]

also they can prep all that in like 4 minutes and still have potions for self sustain incase they get targetted

[sly dust]

they can get like 20 potions to do it for 20 seconds btw

or 30 secs

[brazen dagger]

You realize the point of ability wars is to unlock more powerful abilities. Every ability being equal would go against that.

[mossy kestrel]

u can also combine water if u have mastery alchemist to last for even longer??

thats terribly balanced

[sly dust]

well some abilities need to be nerfed to fit their level. Midas needs a nerf but not a massive nerf or else it will be worse than everything below it

[brazen dagger]

Ability Wars Reimagined already tried to make almost every ability equal and that was a disaster. The game felt hollow and boring.

[mossy kestrel]

look at blood god vs freeze or something for example. blood god would most likely win considering they have a full heal, +25 max health, blah blah blah. and freeze cant do jack shit

[sly dust]

the better abilities are supposed to be stronger but not so strong that it is unbeatable. They need to make it fair for their level.

[mossy kestrel]

all freeze has is their passive that barely does anything because it only lasts during the ragdoll animation LOL

[mossy kestrel]

rs

[sly dust]

and barrier only costs a little more than 2k and its super powerful if you know how to use it.

[mossy kestrel]

also return is also shittly balanced if theyre good at the game theyre literally unkillable

[brazen dagger]

Because Freeze is annoying to deal with so blood god counters it.

[mossy kestrel]

REAL SHIT barrier is too overpowered for something under 10k punches

[mossy kestrel]

you're contradicting yourself. you said more expensive abilities will be more powerful but u say blood god will counter freeze

freeze is 20k and blood god is under 10k

freeze should have the advantage according to your logic

accept the fact a lot of this games abilities are unbalanced and poorly made

[brazen dagger]

Because they tend to spam e and use q to run away. It's fair that Blood God counters it in it's realm

[mossy kestrel]

thats the players

freeze is an offensive mobility ability

thats just how players use freeze because freeze is easily able to be played like that

[mossy kestrel]

BUT ONCE AGAIN YOURE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF???

[brazen dagger]

You contradict yourself. You think that every ability should be equal and balanced yet it bothers you so much that blood god beats freeze just because blood god has a lower price.

[mossy kestrel]

You just said blood god would counter freeze but as you said, more expensive abilities would obviously be better

[sly dust]

and btw alch costs 12k and an easy badge and it is stronger than the majority of abilities. HOW IS THAT FAIR?

[sly dust]

he never said everything should be equal tho lol

[mossy kestrel]

exactly.

i agree with @sly dust on the fact abilities should be more powerful the more expensive they are

but obviously

not overpowered

[sly dust]

we literally said before that we want everything to be fair, not equal.

[mossy kestrel]

Obviously they would be fair to go against eachother, but more expensive abilities would obviously be a bit better

ifykwim

[sly dust]

fair and equal are different, equal is everything has the same skill level and power level and stuff, fair is making it so it isnt too OP

[mossy kestrel]

its bothering me because you were the person that stated more pricey abilities should be better

im 1% contradicting myself and you're 70% contradicting yourself

[brazen dagger]

Sometimes fair isn't always a good thing. Ability Wars reimagined tried to make abilities fair but it turn out very bad.

[sly dust]

no, they tried to make everything equal

[mossy kestrel]

^^^^]

fair is a good thing bro, its literally making it balanced

rather than they made it equal like what @sly dust said

which obviously fucked it up

[sly dust]

ability wars reimagined tried to make everything equal, that didnt work. So now if they make it fair, it will work.

because the 2 are different and fair is better

[mossy kestrel]

there's a difference between fair and equal

Simple as that

[brazen dagger]

Might be true.

[sly dust]

theres a big chance it is true

theres like a 90% chance it's true and i like those odds

and the devs should too

[mossy kestrel]

vizion i feel as if your argument is contradicting ours but now you're agreeing with us

Maybe you agree with us now idek

[brazen dagger]

Not only that everything is equal but the game in general felt so soulless and empty.

It's so boring that it's a literal downgrade.

[mossy kestrel]

yea

[brazen dagger]

What

[sly dust]

https://tenor.com/view/die-of-death-pursuer-gif-9214472969761605870

[mossy kestrel]

😭

[sly dust]

i forgot it doesnt work lol

[mossy kestrel]

Ok so generally to sum up this entire argument , blood god, midas, alchemist, and many more abilities have poor balancing that make it unfair to play against

its ONLY fun when you're playing as it

imo

[sly dust]

fr

[brazen dagger]

Like you said the price does not force the ability to be inferior to more expensive abilities.

[sly dust]

i never said that

[brazen dagger]

Actually, it can be fun to go against them depending on your mood.

[mossy kestrel]

most of the time its unfair especially if its a sweaty guy with 11k punches on an alt account

im imagining this as a same skill person vs same skill person, midas vs the average ability, midas would probably win

same with the abilities we discussed

[mossy kestrel]

most likely infact

barrier is also incredibly overpowered i dont see anyone talking about it

[brazen dagger]

I made a blood god user rage quit using Tank mushroom.

[mossy kestrel]

Well obviously you have a passive that gives you more hp and strength

[sly dust]

because you had a passive that can beat them, and they might have been trash

[mossy kestrel]

It's really confusing when it comes to blood god

because most passives apply in blood god domain which makes it even more of an unbalanced fight than it already was

The only chance you have against a blood god user if you dont have a passive, is if they're bad

And as i said im looking on this argument as a same skill vs same skill 1v1

[brazen dagger]

First, you say the blood god user has an unfair advantage in realm but then you also complain it's unfair if blood god's opponent has a passive. Either way, you always find a way to say blood god is not good.

[mossy kestrel]

Exactly. i did explain that its confusing with blood god

if you have a good passive against the blood god, odds are, you're winning if they're the sameskill

[brazen dagger]

So is blood god too strong or too weak?

[mossy kestrel]

if you dont, you're most likely dead

[sly dust]

depends

[mossy kestrel]

Mixed. blood god as an ability is a bad concept

[sly dust]

and its not in the middle. It is either too strong or too weak.

[mossy kestrel]

maybe if it was an actual fair 1v1 with no passives and no extra hp it would be decent, but then again getting spammed into a dimension where you're locked out of your abilities isnt fun game design

[sly dust]

i have a pretty good blood god rework idea but they prob wont add it so im not even gonna try

[brazen dagger]

Blood god is great for countering annoying ranged abilities that spam a lot like stardust, bounty hunter mastery, freeze and so on.

It is also good to chase down runners too

[mossy kestrel]

but its still terrible game design to be trapped in a dimesion where you'relocked out of all your abilities

only like 10% of the actual fight goes on in the overworld when fighting a blood god user

and its really annoying honestly

and still, once again, blood god gets A FULL HEAL AND 125 MAX HEALTH WHEN IN THEIR DIMENSION

Blood god is shit

[brazen dagger]

At least it counters runners and spammers.

[mossy kestrel]

you cant even get them into their dimension, the Q ability is a mid mobility move and only bad players spam attacks so i feel as if any ability could counter them

Specifically ones that get you out of combos like pulse or paladin

[sly dust]

it does NOT

[brazen dagger]

Q is not mid, it allows the user to move quickly.

[brazen dagger]

In my experience, it does.

[mossy kestrel]

elevation bro.. elevation

Q cant go up elevation

from what i know

If someone just runs around the cave in desert or reimagined theres a big chance u wont even get them into your dimension

because the portal has decent range thats only really usable if youre upclose

[brazen dagger]

Players are never satisfied. They either say Blood god's range is too short or too big.

[mossy kestrel]

because blood god is complicated

It deserves to get removed

[brazen dagger]

That's why ability wars can never EVER be fair. If a ability gets nerfed, people will complain it's too weak so once it gets buffed, poeple will say it's too op.

[mossy kestrel]

yep

Most of the abilities are poorly balanced

[brazen dagger]

So yeah, that's why ability wars is unfair and it will always be that way forever because someone will be unsatisfied no matter what.

and guess what, Ability Wars is still fun to play depsite being unfair.

[mossy kestrel]

decently fun

players ruin it

but thats my opinion

maybe u get good servers

[sly dust]

they just have to fix the abilities. The running and spamming arent fixable so they shouldnt hate the game for it

[brazen dagger]

It's impossible to fix them becuase if they nerf abilities, players will say they are too weak so once they get buffed, players will say it's too strong.

either way, it can't be fix.

[mossy kestrel]

Everyone runs at the same speed so runners can (most of the time) get away from you unless you have a mobility ability

and the fact u need a mobility ability to fight someone is

bad game design

[sly dust]

they can also just balance it. There is a way to not be too strong or too weak

[brazen dagger]

You mean Blood god?

[mossy kestrel]

blood god, lava, rabbit, etc etc

theres many mobility abilities

[sly dust]

they should only be too strong if its like 1mil punches or something else hard to get, and they should only be too weak if it is free or costs less than 10k punches

or something like that

[mossy kestrel]

I mean your argument on blood god is decent on the fact that it catches runners but needing an ability to catch a runner, as i said, is bad game design

and getting trapped in a 1v1 with (most of the time) a disadvantage is also bad game design

[brazen dagger]

So you consider every mobility ability bad?

[mossy kestrel]

what? no

when did i say that

[sly dust]

imagine if the devs make a battle circle and if you attack someone they go in the circle and if they try to run out they get teleported back in and if other players try to third party they either cant go in or something else idk. That would be too complicated tho

[wise shuttle]

what

[mossy kestrel]

mobility abilities arent used JUST to catch runners

[wise shuttle]

are yall on

[mossy kestrel]

Did you read the full convo

[mossy kestrel]

it can be used for combos too

and dodging stuff easier

[brazen dagger]

Obviously, mobility abilities are not for that sole purpose, they are also meant for fun.

[mossy kestrel]

this message kind of makes it seem like you're narrowing my thoughts on mobility abilities, to just catching targetters

Because i never said they were bad

[brazen dagger]

Blood god is also good for countering targetters.

[mossy kestrel]

yeah but if they have a passive you're kind of cooked considering you also dont have any abilities in the realm

specifically a good passive like quantums extra damage or smth

or tree's strength and jump

the tank

[brazen dagger]

A orb can counter that.

[mossy kestrel]

An orb?

oh from pack a punch?

[brazen dagger]

Yes

[mossy kestrel]

Ok but once again thats bad game design if you HAVE to spend punches to beat someone in bg realm

Pack a punch should be solely used just as a small boost

[brazen dagger]

Ok fine I get the point, blood god is flawed though it should be left alone since it's not bad.

[wise shuttle]

what is this suggestion about

atp

[mossy kestrel]

basically just

[red scarab]

idk

[mossy kestrel]

Many abilities being crappily designed

it started as just alchemist but blah blah blah we kept talking and we talked about more abilities

[brazen dagger]

Because not every ability is perfect and they have their own flaws which isn't bad game design.

[mossy kestrel]

obviously but some are REALLY poorly balanced

imo

[brazen dagger]

So you expect every ability to be flawless and perfect?

[mossy kestrel]

no

[wise shuttle]

they expect every ability to be balanced in a way that doesn't ruin the game for others

[mossy kestrel]

i expect them to be fair

yeah

[wise shuttle]

a bad example of balancing is midas and alch mas

[mossy kestrel]

obviously more powerful if theyre more expensive or harder to get, blah blah blah, but still fair and not overpowered

yeah

and god punch honestly, one mistake and youre dead agaist them

against**

[brazen dagger]

Yeah, I hate that ability, it's the worst and ruins the fun the most.

[mossy kestrel]

yep

[noble mural]

Ufo

[wise shuttle]

yeah ufo is also busted

[noble mural]

Defender mastery except it's both too weak and too strong

Look I know having to balance effectively 12 different abilities in one isn't easy

But they're not even trying

[wise shuttle]

how i look at the max light archer after i looked away from my keyboard to sneeze and i go from full health to red

[brazen dagger]

It's fine how it is.

[wise shuttle]

[brazen dagger]

Feel free to disagree.

[wise shuttle]

me when im like actually unable to be punished

for any mistake

[brazen dagger]

So you used ufo before?

[wise shuttle]

yes

[brazen dagger]

Players tend to target the engine.

[wise shuttle]

so?

just

jump

it rockets you away and by the time they get to you, you're making another beacon

and then you can use the high damage tractor beam again

oh they lived? jump

did i mention if you place it in certain spots only specific abilities can destroy your beacon

like on the big tree in remade map, you'd need a mobility to get there

and even then, now that they wasted their mobility?

jump.

[brazen dagger]

After sometime, players will get mad and begin to target you.

[wise shuttle]

ok

that goes for

every ability if you're good

[brazen dagger]

Not every ability. For exmpale, I am a skilled midas user and almost no one targets me.

[wise shuttle]

because midas is busted who wants to actively fight a midas

regardless

[brazen dagger]

you proven me correct

[brazen dagger]

that not every ability gets targeted

[wise shuttle]

"not every abilty" limits down to 'just midas' because.. midas is unbalanced as hell and one good player with it is nigh-undefeatable

[brazen dagger]

Here is a list of other abiltiites that don't get targeted much. Soda, glue, plant, cyborg, dice, randomize, cheese, mushroom, tree, and so on.

[wise shuttle]

for starters randomize isn't it's own ability

the rest of those will still get targetted after criteria is met

to be targetted based on ability alone requires specific annoyance or aggrovation

cyborg, plant, tree, and mushroom have ranged abilities; they'll get targetted for that annoyance

dice as well

cheese, soda, and glue are more up-front and require close up confrontation which makes targetting less prominent, but still available if you interrupt a(n) player(s) consistently

especially glue, since.. it's glue

any ability will get you targetted if you are good enough with it and aggrovating enough to other players

midas is exempt because, 9 times out of 10, there is nothing in their power they can do to stop you

all of the abilities you listed have effective counters or equals, and are all balanced (dice, glue, and randomize are iffy)

the reason abilities like ufo and engineer get targeted so much is because of their potential to be aggravating (that, and they get really fussy when disturbed)

dos being a primary example

[brazen dagger]

From my experience, players don't really target me as tree either.

[wise shuttle]

what correlation does that have to that specific message

also, tree has an ability that literally makes it untouchable

same case scenario with butter

but tree is more likely to be attacked than butter because tree's untouchability can be prevented by punching it during use

if you hide in the tree, they CAN'T target you because

ahem

there is NOTHING they can do

[brazen dagger]

I played mushroom and I'm not targeted either.

[wise shuttle]

mushroom also has an ability that makes it untouchable which can't be prevented by punch, but it isn't indefinite

the ranged ability is slow and unreliable when further away

how do you play mushroom

close up?

medium range? hit and run

if you're not getting targetted as mushroom, you're playing close up

[brazen dagger]

I usally use tank mushroom

[wise shuttle]

then you're especially close up, right?

with your added jump height you are more difficult to fight as well

how often do you use your Q

(projectiles)

[brazen dagger]

Whn I consder it a good time like the foe is far away.

[wise shuttle]

did this foe happen to

disengage

for any reason

or did you run away

[brazen dagger]

I only fight those who try to fight me in game.

[wise shuttle]

that's why you aren't getting targetted, then

you do not interrupt people nor do you play obnoxious

[brazen dagger]

Becuase I consder it wrong to do that.

[wise shuttle]

which is also the reason you aren't getting targetted as midas

[brazen dagger]

true

[brazen dagger]

It probably applies to any ability that I use, since I am peaceful unlike most players.

[wise shuttle]

i play most of my abilities offensively (except for when i use alch mas, because its boring and easy)

ig that kind of exempts you here

anyway

[prisma belfry]

🤤

nooooo dont nerf my inf combo speed potion please

and when u become a 50 speed one shoting demon

its very balanced because

u have to take time to make the potions

Yea

[split lion]

I agree

alchemist is too busted

I got my ass whooped as dos because of mastered alchemist

[prisma belfry]

yea

not from a dos perspective

[split lion]

no joke 58 kills I fucking die

this super sayian mf comes and flings me

it was a mastered alchemist user

[prisma belfry]

ya

at 70 u can use ur armor but at 200 u just die