Ability wars Balancing MEGATHREAD (Array edition)

[glass copper]

I've seen a trend of doing these big threads of a bunch of difference balances so I wanna do my own take on it. I won't be adding much context on some of these but feel free to ask about any! Also you may notice more buffs and reworks here than direct nerfs or abilities get buffs AND nerfs, that's just how I feel the general direction of the game should go.
Oh and for how this'll work:
= Buff
= Nerf
🟡 = Rework

Teleportation ⚡
Deals 8 damage of chip damage and a brief hitstun whenever you teleport through someone.

Soda 🥤
Punch damage 11.8 -> 13
Max hp 105 -> 115

Boomerang 🪃
Windup time 2.5 seconds -> 2 seconds
Damage 16 - 25 -> 20 - 30
Hit detector no longer goes invisible after a certain windup time

Soap 🧼
Damage 20 -> 25
🟡 Soap is no longer homing, instead its direction is influenced by the direction you're walking.

Robot 🤖
Wrench throws wrench gets a considerable size increase.
Hitting your robot with the wrench now gives the robot +4 speed and a 50% damage buff for its lifetime.

Slime
Ooze trap now deals melting damage when caught inside. (15 damage per its total uptime.)
Slime boots now leave tiny puddles of slime where you land. (These ones only do the melting damage however)
Total bounces with slime boot: 6 -> 4

Mushroom 🍄
🟡 Root implant now gets a much smoother and faster animation going in and out of the ground & it can now be cancelled

• However its total uptime is only 2 seconds now. (Heals as much health as before)
  🟡 Mushroom gains a "rogue" option. Which allows them to not be forced to team up with other mushrooms

Programmer 💻
🟡 Virus spread now only fires 5 projectiles in a cone shape in front of the programmer however,

• Effect time 3 seconds -> 5 seconds
• Total damage 5 -> 15
  Virus spread projectiles transparency greatly reduced.
  Syntax error now reflects projectiles

Barrier 🧱
Barriers passive shield now blocks any projectiles without a cooldown.

• Archer / baller bypasses it
  However, the passive shield can now be deactivated for 10 seconds by punching the barrier user.
  (There is visual indication when the passive is up / down)
  Shield clap can no longer be used while a barrier is spawned

Stone 🪨
Damage cap against user when E is up: 10 damage -> 5 damage.
Boulder toss damage 30 -> 25
Boulder toss cooldown 24 -> 18 seconds

Snow ❄️
Snow wall is now a solid anchored wall.
Roll speed of snowball is now slowed down to slightly slower than walkspeed (so you can roll it up easier)
🟡 Snowball now deals one big hit of damage and knockback if hit. (instead of hitstunning and instakilling)
However the time for the snowball to gain size is reduced.

Cards
You can now hold Q to charge up to 3 cards thrown at once

• Max charge will do 10 fixed damage per card and be thrown in a cone shape (like vampire)
  🟡 Reflective shield reworked to function like it did in the april fools event (but with a longer cooldown)

Lava 🌋
E ability now is able to jump / accelerate & deccerate much smoother.
It can also now be cancelled
🟡 Magma rocks from eruption reduced 7 -> 5 but these rocks are in preset locations you can abuse

Blood god ♋👶
🟡 Hand projectile readded
Q ability can now be cancelled
Abilities can now be used in the blood god realm

• However blood god will still be able to use Q ability as well as gain a 17 damage punch & +4 speed buff

Mage 🧙
Uncharged blaze 22.5 damage -> 18 damage
Charged blaze 30 damage -> 35 damage
🟡 Blizzard now fires only one projectile
9 damage -> 18 damage uncharged
16 damage -> 32 damage charged
Heal spell removed (seriously, why did mage get this it was only suggested because of a bug on release.)

Cyborg 🤖
Base health 150 -> 120
Walkspeed 17 -> 20

Storm ⛈️
(I seriously don't use storm or fight it enough to give it a fair buff someone should help me out on that)

DoS 💩
Revert the DoS buff (My god, please)

Time 🕰️ (This is a big one)
Times bubble size decreased by 50%
Time no longer multiplies knockback
Times cooldowns no longer go down while the other ability is up
Time total uptime 6 seconds -> 4 seconds
Passive punch damage 10 -> 13 damage
Timestop cooldown reduced 40 seconds -> 25 seconds
Timestop windup decreased by 50%
🟡 You can now be punched during time rewind

• However you can now cancel the rewind to cause an explosion around you
• Explosion size is a 8 stud area around you and does 20 damage & a vertical kb to anyone caught in it.

Dice 🎲
Q cooldown 2 second cooldown -> 5 second cooldown
Explosion 50 -> 30 damage
Dice men spawn 2 -> 1
Metal cage 100% size increase

Quantum 🪐
Quantum realm gets a visual indication outside of animation when being used (so you cant emote to hide it)

Berserker 🍼
Berserker Q hitbox reduced by 50%
Berserker Q gets its old jump distance back.

Railgun 🚅 🔫
Visual indicator goes from server to client sided.

Plasma 💡
Plasmas shield no longer reduces damage, only negates kb and powers up their other moves
Plasma E cooldown 20 -> 24 seconds
Total teleports reduced 3 -> 2
Teleport distance 30 -> 40 studs

Void ⚫
E ability always knockback towards the player

Mech 🤖
Mech loses hitstun immunity below 60 health

Rage 💢
Rage user cannot be ragdolled using Q when under 50% health
Vertical hitbox of E is reduced (so a well timed jump can avoid it)
E ability gets a 20% hitbox radius increase.

Gingerbread 🫚 🍞
Gingerbread gets their boomerang back however it’s modified to act like regular boomerang, (but with a 15 second cooldown) (seriously what did we really get to lose this?)
Spawning the gingerbread house on top of someone now deals 10 damage to anyone in range and hits them vertically into the air.

Alchemist 🍺 🐵 🎈
(Nothing, yeah I know. I don't know what else people would want done to alchemist, with the DoS meta rn it feels like a necessary evil to have in the game in its state.)

Jello 🪼
E Dps reverted to 30 dps
Knockback distance inside of jello reduced by 50%
Jello speed reduction 50% -> 15%

Return 😴
🟡 I have a rework for this, just ask about it or something

Lemon 🍋
Lemon no longer gains a significant boost of juice when hitting someone out of their cloak
Lemon structures return
Lemon gas gains more juice when players are inside 50% faster now

Brickbattler 🧱 🪖
(Like storm above I have no idea how you'd go about nerfing brickbattler)

Spring 🌼
E ability can only be used for bouncing now
Q ability can only be used for hitbox extending now

Mystic ⚪
Projectile speed slown by 50% (means more souls will be able to connect easier)

Malice 🎃
(Like some others above I don't even have malice I do think it can use a buff but i'm not the person who should be able to decide that)

Vampire 🧛
Recent dagger damage nerf reverted

Combo 🥷
Passive punch damage 11 -> 13
E can now be used to block abilities (however it'll go onto cooldown as if it got a hit)
Q will now give a brief +3 speed buff for 2 seconds whenever used and misses a player.

(This has gone long enough maybe ill add a few more but I think this is a good basis)

Total abilities buffed - 16
Total abilities nerfed - 9
Total abilities that are completely different to fairly judge - 2 (return, time)

Total Buffs 36
Total Nerfs 24
Total reworks 🟡 10

[loud folio]

why are we buffing jello back to what is was before

[glass copper]

Continuation for masteries

Bone Mastery 🦴
R ability no longer hits through walls (Like PLEASE do this, I think its genuinely the most unskilled way to kill anyone)
E ability vertical hitbox reduced by 30% (So you can use a well timed jump to avoid it now)
E ability travel distance cut by 50%

Portal Mastery 🏃‍♂️‍➡️ 🕳️
R ability cooldown 6.5 second -> 4 seconds

Army Mastery 🪖
Caveman / Farmer / Knight 30% damage reduction
Archer, Military & Scifi soldiers projectile damage increased by 30%

Cosmos Mastery 🌌
Max charge cosmos splash reduced by 30%.

Magnet Mastery 🧲
Magnet rock damage 25 -> 15
Magnets radius reverted & regains circular hitbox.

Lemon Mastery 🍋
Uhhh... I already put this lemon

Defender Mastery ⭐ 🏙️
Uhh... This isnt the job for me. But I know someone whose pretty passionate about their defender mastery

Cake Mastery 🎂
🟡 Throwing a cake now has a .3 second windup,

• This may make cake a bit harder to throw but it should also make riding your cake a lot more consistent for the tech.

UFO mastery 🛸
(It kinda just needs a whole rework theres too much to fix outside of a simple balance change like this)

[loud folio]

m1 + e = 50+ damage yay!!

[glass copper]

But rn its dps is kinda horrible.

[loud folio]

as it should be

[glass copper]

Players arent slowed down as hard though if you're caught in the middle.

So like you escape easier

But jello kinda sucks now.

Wanted to make a concept where it isnt as strong as it was before the one nerf which made it pretty much unviable.

[wintry elbow]

Now the barrier change

[glass copper]

But still strong

[wintry elbow]

The passive blocks all projectiles right?

[glass copper]

I know, I made a change to barrier that.

Yes.

Basically the idea is

You make the passive block everything instead of what it feels like

But punching is what disables it

[wintry elbow]

But does it affect

[glass copper]

Oh right let me

Actually tbh

It'd probably count archer arrows as a punch

Since its an m1

Otherwise archer literally could do nothing to it

[wintry elbow]

let's hope, otherwise it's gonna be 100% parry uptime firebrand again

[glass copper]

I just added

archer gets a bypass

Cuz yeah that's stupid lol

Also I do kinda agree it'd make jello aids so

Im lowering the speed reduction to only 15% inside of it

Good to catch someone inside but they can move out kinda easily now vs before

[wintry elbow]

I think dice's absorption shouldn't fling you that far

[finite helm]

For storm I think charging up tornado should be faster and only get cancelled in ragdol

[glass copper]

My only idea for storm was

It gets its auto aim back but

Said auto aim becomes a hitstun instead of knockback

But I didnt like it enough to add it

[finite helm]

Using q while tornado be active would make it a lightning tornado that does kb instead of throwing the e player

[wintry elbow]

Baller too btw

[glass copper]

Anyways heres the

stats

[wintry elbow]

I feel like blood god's speed buff should be reduced to 2-3

[glass copper]

Ehhh..

Theres some abilities that would obliterate it in the realm

Also +4 is like

Old soda

I think its balanced

It definetly favors the blood god a little but as it should if you ended up in their realm (even though this change makes it easier than ever to realm someone)

[wintry elbow]

Fair enough

[wintry elbow]

Also add that baller bypasses the barrier passive too

[glass copper]

Also I hope you like the meaning behind the emojis next to blood god

[wintry elbow]

Yep

Saw it

Comedy

[glass copper]

Its a

Sweaty Cancer baby

[wintry elbow]

Saw it

[glass copper]

ik

[wintry elbow]

Berserker

[glass copper]

Yeah, its fitting

[wintry elbow]

Mario teaches berserker

[glass copper]

Also there were more nerfs I could add but I wanted to make sure to add all the buffs I can instead of nerfs

[wintry elbow]

evil alchemist

[glass copper]

What's evil about it

its just

bloons

[wintry elbow]

Bloons tower defense 6

[glass copper]

Oh damnit I deleted one of the messages cuz it had the return link in it

Hold on

[wintry elbow]

Welp

[glass copper]

I added the extra spots for a reason

[wintry elbow]

Also because mushroom got it, do you think tree should also get the rogue option

[glass copper]

Oh wait its because it has a link in general huh

Ok fixed but I cant leave the return rework in there

I hate that plugin so much

Idk what its even supposed to stop

[wintry elbow]

I've heard it's like

Going to a really old message

And changing it's contents to be a very bad gif

To get the server deleted

Or something

[glass copper]

Makes sense ig

[wintry elbow]

Also

The problem with alch is

Despite being reasonable to use against dos now due to the unreasonable buff

People also use against NOT dos

[glass copper]

I know.

I do believe alchemist is kind of a

Lesser evil that's

Needed in the game to keep

a lot of snowballing abilities in check

Otherwise im forced to be an engineer

nty

Its like a check for really bad game design

[wintry elbow]

Unbalanced inconvenience to keep other unbalanced inconveniences in check

[glass copper]

Pretty much, yes

[wintry elbow]

It's funny how I made a big rework for ginger

When all you have to do

[glass copper]

But at least

[wintry elbow]

Is give it the boomerang back

[glass copper]

Alchemist is a unbalanced inconvenience

Which lasts a few seconds

Cuz single potion spam isnt even that good anymore

[wintry elbow]

(I will always hate it)

[glass copper]

Only thing id consider nerfing a bit is siphoning

[wintry elbow]

Siphon carpet bombing

Screw that

[glass copper]

Yeah

[cosmic plinth]

really, no ufo rebalance

it is neglected:(

[raven bane]

i don't really like gingerbread's, time's, programmer's, slime's, teleportation's, and robot's changes

[glass copper]

It’s not guaranteed you would’ve liked them all but I have reasonings

[wintry elbow]

Also evil defender form V2 is almost out

[delicate wraith]

bro wth is the blood god emoji

[glass copper]

It’s a blood god

[raven bane]

gingerbread's house dealing damage shouldn't be a thing and the boomerang was removed because it was really buggy

[glass copper]

To be fair

Boomerang could always

[delicate wraith]

but

bro

[wintry elbow]

It's accurate

[delicate wraith]

ok

[glass copper]

Straight up become a modified boomerang, boomerang.

[delicate wraith]

Yeah but still lmao

[glass copper]

With a long cooldown

Anyways like I was saying

Combo is generally just a really strong buff for it
Gingerbread is just kinda the easy way out, programmer has control on their E ability, slime soda teleport generally just get buffs,

And robot is awful it kinda deserves a buff like that

Especially cuz throwing a wrench at a bot is

One of the most useless gimmicks attached to a passive

[lone niche]

Make programmer's projectiles not fucking climb walls

also theyre uhh

[raven bane]

if teleportation deals damage, it should have a windup but it should deal 10 damage instead of 8

[lone niche]

really client sided sometimes

[wintry elbow]

Hold on what are the stats of a singilar dice man

[glass copper]

Windup would make it worse it’s just slight chip damage

[lone niche]

ok wait am i tweaking

[coarse sundial]

Dice cool-down too long…
Other than that uh cool

[lone niche]

couldve sworn they did

[rustic cove]

holdon let me check

flipping can you use dice in a ps

[glass copper]

Also why the fuck does

Combo have a passive that does 11 punch damage

[delicate wraith]

Oh nice you added those mage changes we talked about

[rustic cove]

wait nvm dice man is a separate npc so seer still works on it

[glass copper]

Also yes those are

Though I added

Removing the heal spell too

[lone niche]

Also im pretty sure soap already deals 25 dmg

[glass copper]

On the wiki it says it but

I was testing

No way it’s 25 damage

If someone tested and it was

I’d be kinda shocked

[violet ocean]

Malice doesn't need a buff

Remove it from this suggestion

I main malice

[glass copper]

Im keeping it if anyone has an idea but for now I

Had nothing

[wintry elbow]

Remove hitstun from the flying pumpkins

[glass copper]

Id be willing to sub out malice for bubble buff though

[wintry elbow]

[violet ocean]

NO

[lone niche]

also some things like jello's e, barrier e, and both of blood gods moves have a big hitbox that screws up your cursor aimed projectiles

those should be removed

[rustic cove]

gingerbreads r move was super buggy
i discussed it with pyro a few months ago

[glass copper]

Let me change it to something yeah

[rustic cove]

it would need like
an entire overhaul

[glass copper]

I’m making it straight up

A longer cooldown boomerang

[rustic cove]

also it was pulse and boomerang combined and i think gingerbread could have something cooler

(in the orig gingerbread rework the r was gonna work like army's old target system but for the gingerbread minions, which was balanced out by the fact that gingerbread in the orig rework idea had a more versatile passive)

[glass copper]

I’m keeping modified boomerang for now.

But

[glass copper]

Yeah ik

I read that back in the day

[wintry elbow]

(insert my gingerbread overhaul here)

[glass copper]

Reality is uh

I could give long detailed reworks for most abilities but

Knowing checken

The bare minimum is better

[wintry elbow]

Checker

[rustic cove]

50 hp per dice man
(it took me like 10 mins to spawn one)

thats comparable to ufo mas aliens
flanker alien has 50 hp
normal alien has 100 hp
tank alien has 150 hp

[wintry elbow]

So in total that's 100 health divided between 2 dice men

[rustic cove]

so in short its just robot split into two but with higher speed

[wintry elbow]

Robot if it was good:

[rustic cove]

(minus the part where robot spawns with the same hp as the robot user)

[glass copper]

I was trying it the other day idk if it’s bugged but

The Robot was seemingly spawning with full hp

[lone niche]

Maybe reduce dice's projectile speed

Because as of right now its kind of undodgeable

[wintry elbow]

What if dice men has shared health

[lone niche]

and make it have a REAL arc instead of always going to the cursor

also maybe reduce buff's knockback

and get rid of the active hitbox on E into Q

buff should be more damage based and less guy who spams jump and deals obscene kb

[wintry elbow]

Make dice laser not slow you

You know what's surprising

No pulse buff mentioned

[glass copper]

I’m not gonna be bias to my butchered mains

Besides lava it’s beyond dead

[shy shore]

I feel like Mech should get its Q speed boost back but nerfed

Like the same speed boost that used to have before rework

Q feels useless without speed boost ngl

[glass copper]

Uh

Yeah I disagree

An ability with more hp, higher jump and more range

Shouldn’t also go faster than you

[raw forum]

Overall fine but

1. Spring is fine alr imo
2. Please give combo some mobility (like an R move that's a dash punch)
3. Make combo actually need to use all of its combos instead of just eee or eqe

[glass copper]

???

Did you not see that

I literally gave combo's E and Q

Smaller abilities built in and Q's lets it get slight mobility

[glass copper]

I added the masteries that need changes

[raw forum]

Oh ye

[glass copper]

Combo is pretty underrated though

Its got some really good damage output if it can close a gap towards someone

[glass copper]

Can you delete this message?

And can you delete these messages

I wanna keep this suggestion all together

[raw forum]

Okay but have you considered bouncing the combos themselves so that combos besides EEE and EQE are actually useful

Like increasing the AOE stomp combo's radius

[glass copper]

Ngl, its not really a mage case where you can move the damage elsewhere for combo

Combo would need

another whole rework to fix it

[raw forum]

Or making the sidekicks do more knockback than qqq

[raw forum]

I think the fact that eee does half of someone's HP is the parts that's overpowered

Also an ability that lets you throw people without the opponent being able to counter it is going to be op no matter what

[glass copper]

That's the issue there

Combo is "overpowered" yet also sucks?

That's usually the point you need to just rework the whole ability

[lone niche]

its kind of just discount invisible god punch as of right now

with a cooldown

[raw forum]

I don't think combo need an entire rework. I just think some of the combos should be removed or replaced by a new thing.

For example, why should be sidekick combos exist if you can just use qqq or turn your camera?

[raw forum]

Yeah I don't think command grabs are good for a game like this

Or at least a commands grab that throws

[plush grail]

I don’t know if this would fall more into rework territory but one of my main issues with combo is that the EQQ stomp move is completely useless

there’s no use case for it, EEE is better in every conceivable way

the visual effect is misleading as well, it doesn’t have an AoE either

[glass copper]

Anyways regardless I do think the nerf im now most passionate about because its been REALLY getting on my nerves is

Nerfing the hell out of bone mastery R or outright deleting it

Gotta love when it essentially forces your fight on a timer (one the bone mastery usually already has a head start in)

Because its the closest thing to unavoidable instakill move

[plush grail]

I came back to the game after a few months of not playing and got instantly deleted by bone mastery’s R

swell balancing there, that really made me want to start playing the game again

[glass copper]

I don't get why

It goes through walls

Even if it didnt its still pretty much death in most cases but at least not all

And its not like you're seeing far weaker similar moves like stardust going through walls

(Or you know, railgun)

Its like an objectively better railgun in most cases that's got a really powerful kit built into it too

[final stratus]

Now the passive barrier without cooldown is good.

Good idea.

[glass copper]

Well the idea is

The hardest counter to it

Is getting close which leaves you vulnerable to getting trapped

[shy shore]

Then tell an use of Q

[glass copper]

It lets you pretty much get anywhere on the map, it's a way to freely escape any attacker even if its temporarily. It's not the best ability in a kit but.

E and the passive already exists to be a living nightmare to deal with

Q being able to be used to outspeed most abilities with a wall that can't be hit away and can harass you with a constant stream of projectiles isnt fun

[shy shore]

Q wont get you anywhere

Only going up

And a bit towards

[glass copper]

Maybe I dunno, actually go near whatever you're trying to get ontop of..?

It can get to every part of the map.

(Every outdoor part, obviously)

Regardless, I didnt say Q is good and it shouldnt be

Mech is already a pain in the ass.

[shy shore]

Is kinda easy to deal with

Just punch its contanstly

[glass copper]

You havent found a "good" mech then

If you run mech "good"

Most abilities cant even touch you

[shy shore]

So Mech wont be able to do anything (hitstun)

[shy shore]

You got a point there

[glass copper]

Mech has the 'indepth' strategy of.

High jumping onto nearby trees or the house and stuff and just

spamming missiles at mid range against their target

[shy shore]

Lets be real, 99% of the mech users just camp

[glass copper]

Because the kit is

Literally designed for it

[shy shore]

Eh

I dont think so

[glass copper]

No it is.

It ESPECIALLY was with Q before the nerf

Its got projectiles that can hit from across the map, is a bullet sponge which is hard to melee with

Has a boosted jump that lets it jump up to pretty much most areas (all with its ability)

Has pretty much a constant stream of bullets to spray

It feels intended

I know its just AW testers and devs have a really bad sense of game design.

But it feels intended

[shy shore]

Maybe

But mech proyectiles are easy to dogde at long ranges

[glass copper]

And

That's why a good mech

Doesnt stay too far away

Which fortunately, after the nerf to Q

It does leave them vulnerable for a bit if they need to get to another high place but before the nerf they can

Straight up not even have to go on the ground

[shy shore]

Dang I got cooked

Anyway fair point

[glass copper]

Oh and trust me I tried to be generous to mech

Mech is my least favorite abiltiy in the game BY FAR (ok blood god, bone mastery and barrier rework are close)

Abilities that change the way you play the game like archer can be fine, when it takes SKILL to do

Mech is the most noskill ability in the game and its not even a contest (ok besides bone mastery, again considering you can just win any fight that isnt a DoS with it)

[delicate wraith]

you should make it to where cosmos star ability can be cancelled

because if you get within punching distance of a cosmos user and they use the ability its basically a guaranteed hit

[glass copper]

Ehh.

I think cosmos mastery just needs a radius decrease on the bomb

It'll not change it too much but

It should at least keep mid range safe from being hit with an unavoidable attack

Maybe ill throw a kb reduction in though

[delicate wraith]

yeah the mastery specifically has a rediculous hitbox for a projectile

its supposed to be a higher charge higher reward thing

except

you cant get punished because youre like 50 feet in the air lol

[ornate jackal]

poor dos my little boo doesn’t deserve it it’s hard for him to progress already

[glass copper]

I did DoS a little dirty there

Blood god and Berserker emojis are deserved

Especially blood god

[ornate jackal]

reasonable points why it shouldn’t be : first you only get 1 chance after it you will get early targeted to death and it will get nearly impossible to do forcing to server switch second bro those exploiters they are like flies I swear third man I wish I would see more skilled people with it

[ornate jackal]

dos shouldn’t get nerd or buff

expect for 200 path it just sucks don’t ask why

[glass copper]

DoS should get its last buff reverted.

That's for sure

I can show the sheer speed you get nearly immediately that forces you to target a DoS even after like 2 kills

https://gyazo.com/f769f682838f8418a15a1b976bb40429.gif

This is a 2 soul DoS

In terms of speed

[ornate jackal]

I’m expert with it I can get 300 souls with it but I make sometimes simple mistakes which lead to my death

[ornate jackal]

speed eh

[glass copper]

For 2 souls having that considerable of a speed buff already to make you like a coffee user is

Kinda ridiculous

https://gyazo.com/d8390f7b1910dba875efab100ab14e81.gif

Heres 4 too

[ornate jackal]

i would say 3+ kills stage is under rated

[ornate jackal]

you just gota bloat carful and catch of guard

[delicate wraith]

dos was perfectly fine how it was lol

[glass copper]

4 souls you basically have the equivilant of a damage and swiftness potion at all times

[ornate jackal]

that’s how to play it and not

w+m1

[glass copper]

My issue isnt actually beating a DoS it isnt that bad its

How easy it is for a DoS to snowball now

[delicate wraith]

if you want to spawnkill the entire server you should have to earn it

[glass copper]

Before the buff you really didnt start to snowball until like 5 souls

[delicate wraith]

no reason for it to scale this fast

[glass copper]

Little timmy and a bad server can likely

[ornate jackal]

I’m tweaking out of those two kids w+m1 dos and than take to and say ez after I killed them for 500th time and they get me bc I was chatting and just leave like clowns

[glass copper]

Reach 15 souls consistently and then die to some easy to avoid dos cheese

[ornate jackal]

just play carful look in tab (leaderboard) for any bad abilities

and your good

btw sry for any misspelling I made I’m just on phone and my broke

my pc broke *

[glass copper]

Exactly, its not even that hard once you snowball unless you bump into seasoned dos killers

[ornate jackal]

any tips on how to counter runners who use plasma

?

[shy shore]

I disagree

[ornate jackal]

[shy shore]

?

[ornate jackal]

here’s a kids guide why mech is a no skill!!! first e+ aim on your target and kaboom your target is dead within half minute!!! second hate close combat? No problem run away and use your passive on having no ragdoll bc why not lol!!!

if you disagree your no skill!!!

[shy shore]

Q is not that usefull anymore
E is slower, make it easy to dodge
Ragdoll inmunity just make it easy to combo

[ornate jackal]

bw show me 1 person who actually uses mech to not camp and not use e ability within 10 seconds after they spawn

[shy shore]

Me

And a friend of mine

[ornate jackal]

second proof

it takes more skill to main jello

[shy shore]

I mained mech before rework lil bro

[shy shore]

Jello is just E and done

[shy shore]

Already said it

[ornate jackal]

than you might have been person who complained to me that I’m hacking while I comboed them to void from centre of map with just m1

[ornate jackal]

q is good for troll e

[shy shore]

Wtf

[ornate jackal]

can be used as combo extender

and e is just ain’t that good for main dmg

what

[shy shore]

I understanded that mech was easy to combo and I didn't complain

[ornate jackal]

mech was that trash

[ornate jackal]

[shy shore]

It wasnt

I honestly prefer the old one

It had a good tech

Better mobility

[ornate jackal]

I wouldn’t say so but any recording or screen footage just give me -100% rate of me NOT wining a mech

[shy shore]

And an easy to aim E

[ornate jackal]

ik only run

[shy shore]

No

[ornate jackal]

I just have to hit them once and they use q

[shy shore]

I didn't understand that

[ornate jackal]

just like gp kids who bought it

[shy shore]

Wdym

[shy shore]

Q can only be interruptable ay the first frame

[ornate jackal]

I use dos > I see mech > I go hit mech > mech use q and run > mech hide > repeat

that’s all

[shy shore]

Yea you never find an good old mech main

Wait

Why we are even talking about the old mech

[ornate jackal]

if I would be look like cheeky but he wouldn’t do AW

bruh

I hate my

phone

[shy shore]

Autocorrector gameplay:

[ornate jackal]

if I did found it I would look like cheken wouldn’t did AW

[ornate jackal]

my pc just

clapped out of nowhere

it doesn’t charge and keys stopped working

[shy shore]

Seriously, good mech mains were a menace

[ornate jackal]

I used to play on phone but uhh

my fingers are much bigger and I AM NOT buying iPad

[shy shore]

I literally solo a 15 kills DOS and a plant main as mech

[shy shore]

Absolutly pain

[ornate jackal]

I haven’t seen a single soul die to mech

even to me

[ornate jackal]

btw out of theme

free exp farm

[shy shore]

Ngl, its sactifactory to kill DOS high streaks as mech, or atleast was

[ornate jackal]

if I hade to choose what’s harder to kill dos 300 with default or mech

I would say mech

[shy shore]

Bigger hitbox+Big tree, would save mech, but it would still loose

[ornate jackal]

mech hit boxes are Jason’s from forsaken but they are smaller by 1000000x times

and e used to be mid back than

[shy shore]

Off topic, but every killer hitbox sucks

[ornate jackal]

dude

[shy shore]

I used it to combo extend

[ornate jackal]

don’t get me started on my mafioso avg ping hit box

the hit box I JUSY BEHIND ME

HOW AM I AUPPOSED TO HIT A GUY BROOO🇫🇷

🥀

[shy shore]

Bro I literally bypassed 1x1x1x1 mash infection by just shielding someone as Dusekkar

[ornate jackal]

btw

have you seen

wirhakwkf9284 guy

I’m forsaken

in*

[shy shore]

Idk

Why you ask

[ornate jackal]

bro said he gonna come after me in my main gaem

I still don’t see him incAW

[shy shore]

In case you saw a Dusekkar with milestone 4 skin then yes

[ornate jackal]

nah

he said

[shy shore]

Wait

Nvm

[ornate jackal]

it streash

[shy shore]

I didn't readed the correction lol

[shy shore]

Then no, I havent

[ornate jackal]

he said Troy one (before even rework was a thing) was better

two time*

[shy shore]

[ornate jackal]

taph wateh

[shy shore]

007n7 is more useful than old two time

Old two time was useless as hell

How was better?

[ornate jackal]

7n7 mains when they get killed before LMS for the 3947 time

[shy shore]

One time I killed everyone and lefted a 007n7 for last because I through it was a Sheledsky because of his skin

[ornate jackal]

dude

my lawyer advised me not to say 2 words

to you

[shy shore]

I was the full LMS looking for him

And never found him

[ornate jackal]

7n7 is hell for lms

but yk

what good for lms

[shy shore]

Noob is a bit worse to be honest

[ornate jackal]

meh

Elliot

is good

speed boost

[shy shore]

[ornate jackal]

and you can get items since

you give pizza

and you can get Bloch

blxy

and if it ran out juke

and use speed boost

[shy shore]

Controversal, but Elliot is overrated

In my opinion atleast

[ornate jackal]

I broke 19 day playtime ankles with it

BUT MY MEDAL VIP RAN OUT

AND IT STOPPED

WAAAAAA

WAAAAAA

[shy shore]

No one will be agree to me but I think Dusekkar is better 🥀

[ornate jackal]

it’s not bad

I don’t like playing it

it’s mod for support ain’t best in my opinion and juking hard for with it

[shy shore]

I main him, and I gotta say he is extremely underrated

[ornate jackal]

mid*

[ornate jackal]

nhl

it’s 1 am soon

[shy shore]

Its 9 am for me

[ornate jackal]

and I’m talking more to you than to my irl friends my whole life

[shy shore]

9 pm*

[ornate jackal]

[shy shore]

Debating punishment 🥀

[ornate jackal]

I wish I had image perms

I would send a really cool

view of my town

[shy shore]

I used to, but I lost them since the incident

[ornate jackal]

it’s really awesome

[shy shore]

Mine better!!!!!

[ornate jackal]

“we don’t mention it here”

[ornate jackal]

no

uh

I

[shy shore]

Its sarcasm

[ornate jackal]

yippee

[shy shore]

Mine is 10x worse

[ornate jackal]

I can’t send

194727 of terabytes of yippee song

due to copywriting

and image perms

[shy shore]

One day my image perms will be back

[ornate jackal]

stand my arrival low rank ah moment

[shy shore]

Fr

[ornate jackal]

anyway

any hot takes?

for more exp

[shy shore]

I main Dussekar just because I liked 2009 skin 🥀

[ornate jackal]

relatable

[shy shore]

And somehow I get pro when I use it

[ornate jackal]

I main Jason

bc of

[shy shore]

Same

[ornate jackal]

jerman skin

jerma

not jerman

and esp with moustache one

[shy shore]

I main him because I like starter character

[ornate jackal]

I main bc

ITS HITBOX OK YES I DO IT BC I CRYINGWHEN I GET JUKE WAAAAAAWAAAAAA

[shy shore]

His hitbox is fine trust

[ornate jackal]

ye ik

but people say unfair

[shy shore]

I think its ping

[ornate jackal]

my friend says hacker while I showed him footage of my

real hit box they actually hit him

Than he stopped yapping about hit boxes ever

alr

I have to get ready for

heavy day soon

[shy shore]

People called me cheater for using barber Jason

[ornate jackal]

so cya

[shy shore]

Bye

[ornate jackal]

Skbido troileter

[shy shore]

Why do people always said goodbye to me like that 🥀

Anyway cya!

[glass copper]

A whole conversation happened in here ok

[shy shore]

XP farming

[glass copper]

You cant even XP farm in suggestion channels

[shy shore]

Wait what

[glass copper]

If you could id have a way higher ranking

[shy shore]

Well

That sucks

[delicate wraith]

same here

[zinc hatch]

Here is least asked opinion:

Barrier:

• I like the barrier changes, but i dislike the baller and Archer bypass. It makes them even more braindead to use.
• Maybe reduce the deactivation of passive to 5. 10 kinda feels too much.

Blood god:

• I hated the hand. It had a weird hitbox, and it was more punishing to the blood god. I like the portal and ye.
• About abilities... give Blood god a roguelike mechanic then sure.

Mech:

• I feel like this is not the major problem of mech, i think it's rather the spam. Sad you didnt mention it : (

Jello:

• This might be sad, but the 30 dps is absurd for such a big ability. Especially when you have slowness and come out with red hp.

Brickbattler:

• I think brickbattler is fine as it is. It doesn't need a nerf.

[peak sail]

Peak

[night cloud]

I really enjoy how you hyper nerfed time and buffed alot of beginner abilities

[wintry elbow]

If barrier actually affected archer and baller, they would have no way of fighting back because they don't have a melee attack

I mean maybe it should affect unmastered, but mastered should bypass it, otherwise it's just a big "fuck you"

[violet ocean]

I had an idea for mystic E ability where the user would hold the ability to charge it for like 4 secs and the mystic orbs would start combining into bigger orb after charging the ability the user would release a giant orb but it's slower than normal mystic orbs and explodes when it hits anything (including objects like walls) and deals higher knockback and damage

[glass copper]

I wouldn’t call that a time nerf

It’s a completely different approach to it

That basically rebalances it to

Be stronger for 1v1ing but much weaker for cheap kills

[ornate jackal]

bruh

[lone niche]

similar to how blood god used to interact with archer/baller

the projectile that kills you

[wintry elbow]

Firebrand with 100% parry uptime

[lone niche]

[wintry elbow]

So peak bro

[lone niche]

i wonder what happened when you reflected the bg hand

[glass copper]

Ok so:
archer & baller bypass it because if they didn’t they straight up couldn’t damage the barrier user at all.
Oh and 10 seconds opens up a pretty long window where a barrier is exposed once you get close, the thing is having to get close leaves you vulnerable to being trapped

Blood god’s hand takes at least a sliver of skill to aim while the current you just place and almost always get someone z

Mech losing their stagger when under 60 health will make it much more tolerable, but I also didn’t wanna overnerf mech because it’s my least or second least favorite ability.

Jello gives far less speed reduction while stuck in it now but a good jello can keep you stuck inside easier. Generally it’s less dps but way more effective for trapping.

[wintry elbow]

The world collapses

[lone niche]

i think people really underestimate how busted a projectile nullification passive is

[wintry elbow]

It kills malice

[lone niche]

half of the abilities in the game just completely nullified

[glass copper]

Nah ik it’s strong.

My direction of how to rework it though I think is

[wintry elbow]

And combine that with abilities that benefit a lot from that projectile immunity

[glass copper]

A good way to force a counter for it

Cuz rn

A lot of abilities

Straight up can’t even touch barrier

This rework close range projectiles should be a good counter since you can m1 into projectiles

(Old barrier would unironically be a new barrier counter let that sink in)

[lone niche]

old barrier E right in the center of new barrier E

[glass copper]

Old barrier outzones new barrier inside of their own barrier

[night cloud]

I mean yea thats kinda what I meant

[glass copper]

Oh ok I see

[night cloud]

as an army main, I HAtE time(and rage but for a different reason)

[glass copper]

I know the rage interaction with army

They full heal themselves

[night cloud]

yea....

[unique sorrel]

storm is fine

idk how u would implement the thing that i said though

(Q has collision at the tip of it)

[lone niche]

storm is an amazing lobby ability

you can punch people out of the E

it’s basically like magnet but it actually has a moveset

one of my friends mains it

[rustic cove]

dude what😭
not only does it stop like half of the powerful projectiles in the game
if you fire a projectile at a barrier within like a 15 stud range it deflects the projectile and deals the dmg to you

barrier literally punishes you for trying to long range it by eating your projectiles AND for trying to close range it because they have full control over the barrier e (they can go to the void and use e, giving them free voidsaves except they can use the e move again when they punch you into the void so it doesnt voidsave you)

also barrier q move is the king of stalling

[lone niche]

combo starter/extender

that deals 20 dmg

[violet flare]

cool windup changes but, .2 seconds would be better than .3 seconds

[glass copper]

It can be adjusted to

Basically whatever allows

The most consistent cake riding

.3 seconds is just

What I predict would be

But .2 could be better

[zinc briar]

yummy

[final stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-idc-i-don't-care-galaxy-control-gif-16892922877773916358

Bro this passive with cooldown is Sucks.

It has 1 projectile each.

[rustic cove]

skill issue

[glass copper]

Saying barriers passive in its current state is bad is

Such a ragebait like it can’t be

“What do you mean I only block most projectiles”

[lone niche]

just casually being immune to 50% of abilities in the game

[finite helm]

makes firework trash

[wintry elbow]

Evilwork

[finite helm]

18 seconds cool down for e and the passive finish in 15 i think

[rustic cove]

list of moves that just dont work on a barrier user:
rabbit e
firework e
pretty much every crafter item
boomerang
farmer corrupted banana
probably malice
bounty hunter mastery
custom

[stable kraken]

the cake mastery nerf

[glass copper]

That’s not a nerf

It lets you

Consistently cakeride

[stable kraken]

well you didnt clarify anything past cakeride and 0.3s windup

[glass copper]

A brief windup should allow you to

[stable kraken]

am i allowed to redirect my aim

[glass copper]

Get onto the cake consistently

While not changing many interactions really

[stable kraken]

if you cant redirect your aim its a straight up nerf because of making the most consistent ability inconsistent

[glass copper]

It probably would get direction redirected but

[stable kraken]

cake never needed changes its supposed to be hard to use

[glass copper]

Where it spawns wouldn’t

[stable kraken]

then thats a buff

[glass copper]

Yes it’s meant to be.

I added it as a buff,

It’s meant to make a

Ping reliant tech

Into something you can just

Always pull off

[wintry elbow]

Hold on a second

Defender mastery

Star

[stable kraken]

cake doesnt need changes be honest

[wintry elbow]

Cityscape

Is that Starscape reference

[glass copper]

It’s a you reference

[wintry elbow]

Peak

[stable kraken]

my point still stands

why are you making cake easier to use

the one reason i main it is because its pretty skillbased

[glass copper]

Because cake riding isn’t that hard

It’s ping reliant

[stable kraken]

make the top part of cake a stick surface

[glass copper]

It’s a tech that

Makes / breaks interactions

That you need a bad ping to do

[stable kraken]

cakeriding is so unreliable tho

[glass copper]

While in good pings

[stable kraken]

with consistency

[glass copper]

(Exactly)

That’s what the change is designed to fix

A windup where it spawns in the same position

Will let you get onto it consistently

[stable kraken]

im saying successful cakerides are unreliable

cake pushing is better by a margin

[glass copper]

And they shouldn’t be when that’s like the one tech

That pushes cake mastery

Even if you dislike it

That’s like

One out of 50 changes here

[stable kraken]

well adding windup feels like the worst fix

you could do so many things that wouldnt mess with the ability

[glass copper]

Ok so how would you make cake riding consistent?

And don’t just say

“Make it work”

[stable kraken]

spawns the cake behind the player with collision off which automatically gets turned back on after 0.4s or pressing spacebar

slightly behind

[glass copper]

You really think checken would bother doing that 😭

Also the cake would

Always hit you then

[stable kraken]

"with collision off"

[glass copper]

So

You just

[stable kraken]

[glass copper]

Remove the one tech

That makes cake fun

[stable kraken]

... did you even read what i said
it has collision off UNTIL you press space or after 0.4s

so timing a jump allows you to cakeride

its not even hard to code just make the cake ignore your collision until spacebar is pressed

[glass copper]

So you need to time it so when it is ontop of you while

[wind flume]

uh is that like using the explosion the cake makes to go foward

[glass copper]

It awkwardly spawns behind you now

Which in turn

[stable kraken]

it mimics bad ping

[glass copper]

Is no different than a windup besides now making a cake

[stable kraken]

the windup would make it inconsistent

[stable kraken]

cakeriding is using your explosive cake and riding it for mobility

[glass copper]

The windup would be tweaked so that if you feel walking forward it’ll spawn inside of you

Which is way less complicated than what your imposing

Also if you use the cake in a wall with your idea

[wind flume]

ohhhh now i understand

[glass copper]

It’ll go through it because

[stable kraken]

its not complicat d

take a page from spectators book

[glass copper]

Big difference in a

[stable kraken]

you expect me to clarify the exact position where cake first spawns too

acting like its spawning 5 studs behind you

[glass copper]

Projectile that loses collision until you jump or whatever and a player doing so (the player also floats)

If you threw this against a wall

It wouldn’t regain collision quick enough

And can go through

[wind flume]

what is the dos buff that you want the devs to revert

[stable kraken]

it collides with everything except you

doofus

[glass copper]

Hold on

[glass copper]

You realize collision groups are a buggy mess right?

[stable kraken]

you keep making too many assumptions about my balancing suggestion like i just explained in detail

[glass copper]

If you tried this unless you made a workaround

[wintry elbow]

Archer meta trust

[glass copper]

Something would fuck up

Trust me collision groups are

One of those things

You think are simple

But they make so sense

[glass copper]

Also this https://discord.com/channels/922921165373202463/1371987115197333615

[stable kraken]

well idk about scripting vrah

[glass copper]

Yeah well what you’re suggesting with that is

Much more complicated than you think

At least in my experience with them

[rustic cove]

arent they managed via tags

[stable kraken]

i feel like Roblox wouldn't be that stupid tho

[rustic cove]

do you know what platform youre playing on

[stable kraken]

fortnite

[wintry elbow]

WRONG

[wintry elbow]

Sentenced to

[stable kraken]

so close

[wintry elbow]

THIS

[glass copper]

I don’t think any abilities rn use collision groups fully

Most just

Enable / disable collision for certain things

I’m probably missing one though

Actually I think old barrier did

Yeah it did

[stable kraken]

no alchemist mastery nerfs

[glass copper]

I have my reasoning there. Plus

Not saying i don’t want any at all

But I have no clue how I’d approach them

But I don’t want potion stacking nerfs especially in the dos meta rn

[stable kraken]

you act like they are gonna be there in the first place, willing to kill the dos

they are much more likely to help em

[glass copper]

Alchemist does both it does basically everything

Also honestly there’s

[stable kraken]

alchemist is super busted because the whole gimmick of being weak without prep time is canceled with Q

[glass copper]

Not even too many alchemists anymore

[glass copper]

I know it is it’s like a top 5 ability

But also it’s one where

I think compared to other stuff rn is

In a relatively “”healthy”” state

Compared to something like dice which is a

[stable kraken]

considering the dos buff i agree 💔

[glass copper]

Less consistent alchemist that gets all its buffs quicker

Dos is the

Least healthy thing in the game rn and it’s

No contest

[stable kraken]

hivemind feels worse

[glass copper]

Not right now

Before the buff I’d agree

After the dos buff you’re

Going at alchemist potion speed

At 4 souls

And coffee speed at 2

[stable kraken]

since it has super low kill req and you dont need your minions in the slightest its essentially just dos 0-70 but begter

[glass copper]

Hivemind is still easy to ramp

But dos is like

[stable kraken]

not really op just

[glass copper]

Pretty much the same difficulty for a

[stable kraken]

stupid ability now

[glass copper]

Much more serve payoff

If you’re not on a dos like a hawk for 30 seconds

They’ve already offed 3 noobs and are your problem

[stable kraken]

its worse when an alchemist is constantly throwing power and shroom potions at them

[glass copper]

Well

Even before the buff

That was a nightmare combo

[wind flume]

aint shroom potions bad though

[glass copper]

That’s always been one of the deadliest combos

[glass copper]

They heal if you don’t crystallize them

[wind flume]

ohhhhh

i did not know it did that

[stable kraken]

still fairly easy to counter early on since the alchemist was forced to juggle speed too in order to avoid time

[glass copper]

Ehhh… no it was pretty hard

[stable kraken]

way easier then the firepit dos state rn

[glass copper]

Oh for sure.

I think the dos buff was

The worst update to an ability ever

And that’s saying a lot

We got mech rework

[stable kraken]

dos is piss easy for me to kill eitherway in the stupidest way

[glass copper]

It’s a change I feel like was added

Without any regard of

How it’d affect the game as a whole

And yeah that mid phase dos is easy to kill if you know what you’re doing

[stable kraken]

they most likely added it to make getting engineer easier

[glass copper]

Tbh

I would like to see

Mid phase dos get buffed instead

[wind flume]

they should add more quests and make operator require you to do some of them instead

[glass copper]

It should be earned and a real pain to kill a dos once they break into mid phases

[stable kraken]

i just get toxic with the dos wait for them to stop moving since ppl gave up on killing them and then just use a telecopter to kill em

[stable kraken]

if engineer wasnt hard to get servers would go from chaos to build a boat for treasure

[wind flume]

i mean the quests should still be as hard as the other quests

[glass copper]

Ehh

Engineer isn’t that hard

I never find myself using engineer personally

[wind flume]

it is for me beacuse i have no skill

[stable kraken]

mech should not lose hitstun immunity since the purpose is to be super tanky

id personally make mech take more knockback based on hp instead

[glass copper]

It’s hp based for a reason

Mech would still be a pain with that

And honestly

I could give it more

[stable kraken]

that is the one thing i skipped nvm its peak

i read 100hp somehow 😭

[glass copper]

Oh yeah that’d be overkill

Well not even

[stable kraken]

considering the fact mech has a recovery ability if timed well i deadass think it should just have passive knockback vulnerability

i remember punching a mech off 3 times in a row and failed because they timed their fly 😭

[glass copper]

Thing with a “good” mech that makes it so infuriating is

It’s literally most optimally played if you

Keep distance and spam projectiles until you ragdoll one for a big chunk of damage

Also did you know cyborg just

Straight up can’t sit

Why doesn’t mech have this because

https://gyazo.com/df3b6766c63e6c199a0b9372ed72cde6.gif

Basically most areas you can high jump onto meaning vertically

[stable kraken]

a true crime

[glass copper]

Only spring keeps up

[stable kraken]

this was my idea for alch mastery

the siphoning calculation is misleading

it steals a percentage of your current hp by 90% of your missing hp +5% for every mushroom

[glass copper]

Aren’t those

Straight up ripped from a different suggestion

[stable kraken]

it also gives+15% hp stolen when the player is above 60% hp

[glass copper]

Well they are

[stable kraken]

no

someone made a balance change suggestion so i gave my own idea

[glass copper]

Oh

[stable kraken]

the only things i think i kept was max hp and siphoning nerd

nerf

[glass copper]

The speed potion change is

Stupid imo

Just

Straight up make it so you can punch less is

Really awkward

[stable kraken]

its so they cant just inf combo you brainlessly

[glass copper]

And some nerfs like slowness potion seem unnecessary

I rarely see people use slowness potion

[stable kraken]

it is but i feel so disprespected getting 5 slowness potions thrown at me

[glass copper]

That’s a bad excuse

As for like

Healing potions make it

A fixed hp heal

Instead of a full hesl

Also there’s an easier solution to Q where you just

Make Q’s cooldown longer than E

So you can auto brew but

[stable kraken]

i did

[glass copper]

It’s an extra 7 or so seconds to go off cd

But it

[stable kraken]

thats literally what i did 💔

[glass copper]

Doesn’t keep them on the same cooldown

Yours adds time to the Q cooldown

[stable kraken]

q has a 30s cd so you cant just be ready 24/7 but neither abilities refresh eachother so using the cauldron is more optimal and easier to prep

[glass copper]

Why not just make E whatever it is now and Q like

8 seconds more or something

So then optionally

Always using the cauldron is the best but harder

[stable kraken]

it can very easily be abused to hell and back rhahghh

[glass copper]

While Q is less efficient.

[stable kraken]

using it mid fight aint gonna work

[stable kraken]

using it midfight is gonna work

[glass copper]

Exactly

You are forced

Into a situation where you either

Need to pull the cauldron out to quickly make a potion to save time

Or

Get an auto potion which will cost more time and effectively damage

[stable kraken]

alchemists whole counter is their prep time

the q just

negates that

entirely

[glass copper]

Not in that scenario.

[stable kraken]

which means alchemist doesnt have a counter

[glass copper]

Well

Spamming Q in that scenario with let’s say swiftness potions will

Straight up give like a

10+ second window where

They’re vulnerable if they didn’t prep potions

[stable kraken]

there is only a 3-5 second interval between a potion wearing off and getting a new one which renders the whole prep time counter useless since they can just consistently get more potions

[glass copper]

In this change that 3-5 seconds becomes 12 seconds

So like

[stable kraken]

im gonna rework the whole alch mastery rebalance thing but my goal is to make it so you can actually counter an alch if they make a bad move or dont prepare

[glass copper]

Also this is a

12 second window.

On an ability with

80 hp

Plasma shreds mechs in half that time

[stable kraken]

yeah looking back at it eeremrrmrmrm

idk what i was thinking

[glass copper]

Actually boomerang shreds in that time

Lol

And a spring is

Hitting you to the void in that time

Oh and a

[stable kraken]

the two things making alch so op tho is uncapped stacking and an ability to avoid your main counter

[wintry elbow]

I need more feedback for the evil defender mas form

[glass copper]

Archer is killing you in

2 seconds

[wintry elbow]

1.8*

1.3 with damage orb

[glass copper]

Is it even less if

The alchemist has 80 hp

[wintry elbow]

Yep

[glass copper]

Ok so the alchemist is just gone

[wintry elbow]

Archer does stupidly high damage and can attack while ragdolled

(Also please do the evil defender mas form)

[glass copper]

It’s so long though

I’ll do it but

I’m not going into detail

[wintry elbow]

ok

[stable kraken]

glass cannons are always a bad ideas in games like this

like really really bad ideas

[glass copper]

Well

Yeah ability wars

Doesn’t have any real glass cannon abilities

[stable kraken]

rage

[glass copper]

Only ability I think could have an hp reduction besides return existing

Oh right rage

[glass copper]

Is spring

Since they already have the best mobility out of any ability

[stable kraken]

they dont need less hp to be glass cannons just weaker or more vulnerable in some way

[glass copper]

Well even going by that it’s

[stable kraken]

something like mastery cake being exploitable after baiting their throw

[rain finch]

PLZZZZ

[glass copper]

Kinda just rage

[rain finch]

THANK YOU

[rain finch]

STOP DOWNVOTE

[stable kraken]

berserker is my #1 opp in terms of glass cannon abilities

[wintry elbow]

Not even a glass cannon

Just a straight up cannon

With iframes

[stable kraken]

well its abilities are super easy to exploit and profit off of

[wintry elbow]

Iframes

And big aoe

[stable kraken]

oh

[wintry elbow]

Makes it go from super easy to annoying

[stable kraken]

bruh

[jovial dragon]

Can we buff glue

Because right now seat is so much better than glue

[lone niche]

how exactly would you buff glue

[jovial dragon]

Just make glue passively transfer 10% of the knock back you take onto the person that hit you

[lone niche]

currently glue users can press E and then walk up to you to deal 50 free damage half of the time

[lone niche]

its extra likely when theyre holding an item because then the connect point is at the punching arm

[glass copper]

I don’t really know how you buff glue correctly

Without reworking it

Which I’m not entirely opposed to but

[jovial dragon]

^^^^^^

Just a tiny change

I want glue to have that passive

[lone niche]

so like

it ragdolls you when you hit a glue user?

[jovial dragon]

No

[lone niche]

or you just take kb no ragdoll

[jovial dragon]

Just a tad of kb

No Randall

[lone niche]

actually quite an interesting passive

[jovial dragon]

I want this to be added, and then when gp hits me, they go flying

[lone niche]

might result in glue being a better dos counter

[jovial dragon]

Exactly

[lone niche]

but will also get glue users infinite combod by defaul

😭

maybe in the opposite direction? but that doesnt make sense because its sticky

it would make glue better for specifically only dos and nothing else