Reasons to Nerf / Rework Snow (It already got shadow nerfed)

[marsh sonnet]

Snow is one of those abilities which on the surface seems underpowered but its abilities under the right conditions are ungodly and literally server ruining. In fact the conditions are way too easy to get.

• All a player will need is either a trophy or unmastered gravity friend and they can unleash hell itself upon the blissfully unaware peons below them.
• In other words, Max size snowballs are way too powerful for how easy they are to create & in general snows viability is pretty much worthless besides them & some occasional clutch clips of pushing someone across the map with one.

How would I change it?
Reworked snowball (E)
Its cooldowns will remain identical, however how it behaves will now be changed.

• The time the snowball takes to grow is drastically decreased making it much easier to roll up medium - larger sized snowballs
• Now, instead of constantly rolling players inside of it or normally knocking them back, if the snowball hits someone it'll explode. This damage can scale from 10 damage on a small snowball up to 70 damage with high knockback (Comparable, to a cosmos mastery bomb)
• The roll will now go slower while rolling it up, this will make it easier to control rolling it. The speed of the snowball rolling once E is used again wont change.

Q is fine, though pretty underpowered it shouldn't change, it's not the problem here.

This design should make snow more usable in actual combat instead of being an ability solely for cheesing or bringing sheer terror to a server. I don't want snow to only lose the sheer madness of max charge snowballs because it would make it criminally underpowered, so I feel like this change would keep it still a niche but viable ability.

Just incase you've never encountered max snowballs btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZhq94-wJI&ab_channel=Array

[junior hazel]

Yeah i’m gonna be real i think i caused this

I never saw any snow users until i started using it on dos users

[azure vine]

the problem is how you gets sticked to it before it will be gone

[marsh sonnet]

I mean

[junior hazel]

It’s literally an early game railgun

[marsh sonnet]

Not even

Its WAY more destructive than railgun

[junior hazel]

i kinda skimmed over the post but make the snowball do perpendicular kb so you don’t get fucking infinite comboed by the tiny ass snowballs

[marsh sonnet]

Railgun has a indication sound, covers a line of area.

And takes longer to charge

[junior hazel]

oh yeah

no sound cue

[marsh sonnet]

Max snowballs can be spammed, are unpredictable and have a MUCH bigger hitbox

[junior hazel]

no wind up

i’m so glad this isn’t used that often

because holy hell it would be annoying

[marsh sonnet]

Ik if people learned how easy it is to do

You'd see it everywhere

[junior hazel]

You can roll the snowball by walking on top of it

So you’ll be safe on top of the snowball

[azure vine]

Depends, Railgun can be used rapidly more and deals more specific area that you wanted you aims at, But snowball will definitely cleaning out most of the people by 30% of the map even if it takes a longer time

[junior hazel]

like yknow how those cartoon characters walk on the barrel

[marsh sonnet]

Railgun takes skill.

Snowballs are

Get a trophy and use them until you get results

Even not just on DoS its still a complete menace

[azure vine]

railgun doesn't has a wall moves like snowball ability that's the point

[junior hazel]

Yeah it kinda wipes the whole server

[marsh sonnet]

I mean its pretty much unavoidable for

[junior hazel]

Snow can be countered by bb though

[marsh sonnet]

Anyone who isnt the DoS

Or like a teleport

Oh bb too yeah

[junior hazel]

Trowel

i love bb

[marsh sonnet]

Regardless its a nuclear bomb.

[azure vine]

Basically because of it's insane speed at full charge

[marsh sonnet]

This picture I made for the thumbnail is very fitting.

[marsh sonnet]

Size too

If its classic and you got the snowball aimed at you & you don't have mobility

You're already dead.

[azure vine]

i could maybe juking most of them if not because the snowball literally moving at the speed of sound

[junior hazel]

It would be cool if snow was reworked entirely to be like katamari damacy

[marsh sonnet]

Ive heard ppl suggest that before I don't really like it

The whole rework there is just a concept I added but its really just a

Way to rebalance it to make it better for 1v1's as the snowballs are more spammable.

But you can't launch nuclear bombs at people at most you got a minature 70 damage nuke (which mind you is still punishing as hell)

[azure vine]

railgun is easily dodgable

[marsh sonnet]

I also don't like how if the snowball manages to despawn.

People who got caught on it

Just cant move, they're still screwed

[junior hazel]

Oh yeah there’s a unique interaction with snow where gp E just deletes it

[marsh sonnet]

That probably doesnt work now

[junior hazel]

But if you go back to the location where it despawned and press E it just comes back and full sends

[marsh sonnet]

Cuz pulses orb

[junior hazel]

at least from what i remember

[marsh sonnet]

Doesnt do that anymore

And it did that before and chances are

Both had the same interaction with gp

[pine gorge]

Add barriers around the map to prevent snowball from falling off, give it a separate collision group to prevent it interacting with players

[opaque quartz]

This would make snow more chaotic before the sticky stage

And the sticky stage would be useless

[pine gorge]

After 5 seconds the snowball explodes into patches of snow

[opaque quartz]

Oh you meant on top of this suggestion

[pine gorge]

And gets a long cd or smth like that depending on size

Ye

[opaque quartz]

I thought you mean on its own

Also snow q should make snowballs grow faster if they are going through the wall

To make snow q actually good in combat

[pine gorge]

Ye

Make snowballs absorb snow

[marsh sonnet]

I think my concept here is fine, it'd keep it chaotic (mind you the max size would be smaller but still tough to avoid)

But its chaos is much more contained to a fight

[opaque quartz]

Tough is an understatement for a ball going across the map in 2 seconds

Or less

[marsh sonnet]

Got me there.

I dunno I threw the rework concept on as a concept of how it could be nerfed but

Mainly this suggestion is to just say

Snow is a spammable, gamebreaking nuclear bomb under the right conditions.

[opaque quartz]

(The conditions being a singular trophy)

[marsh sonnet]

Or a gravity friend

In fact I think it’s

[opaque quartz]

A propeller could also work on the mushroom

[marsh sonnet]

Even worse with a unmastered gravity with a trophy you can

[opaque quartz]

But it’ll be smaller

[marsh sonnet]

Camp mushroom

[opaque quartz]

Wait is there a size cap to snow?

[marsh sonnet]

With an unmastered gravity you can just

[marsh sonnet]

Yes

[opaque quartz]

Aw man

[marsh sonnet]

Unmastered gravity can just use their ability on them while they got their trophy

And they’re already high enough from anywhere

Since not many abilities have vertical ability to get on the snowball you could literally just

Have the unmastered gravity camp ontop of it with you.

[opaque quartz]

Or for more perm effect, there’s also a bug that allows low gravity from astral in map

[marsh sonnet]

And send you both right back up every time you launch one

[opaque quartz]

Mainly from lag switches

[marsh sonnet]

At least with mushroom there are some abilities you can snipe the snow with while trying to get there

Like cosmos mastery

[opaque quartz]

Tbh, the mushroom shouldn’t even be able to make people go higher than lobby

Especially with trophy

[marsh sonnet]

Wait a minute I might know another method

You use a

Mushroom giant friend

[opaque quartz]

That’s just harder than using the mushroom itself

[marsh sonnet]

Nah.

[opaque quartz]

• dice mushroom is better

[marsh sonnet]

The mushroom giant can just

Go anywhere

And let you use him

Aswell as using the mushroom too

[opaque quartz]

Dice

[marsh sonnet]

That’s less consistent

The height really doesn’t matter much

There’s a max size

[opaque quartz]

Also you can still levitate with just a gravity friend and trophy

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah I mentioned it

[opaque quartz]

Snow does need a massive nerf tho

Or just a rework

[marsh sonnet]

Rework is better imo

It’s got nothing without the nuclear bomb snowballs

Just nerfing it would make it awful

[opaque quartz]

Separate rework idea (very shortened and not detailed because it’ll be too long to not be a separate suggestion) :

e: sends a wave of snow that slows down, similar to festive blizzard but slowly does “freezing” damage and slows less

Q: snow, starts raining (only visual), gives the snow user a slight speed and makes M1s stronger

Meh idea

But a rework

[marsh sonnet]

Actually you’re onto something with the E idea

But for its own ability

A ability where it can create a bubble likely around timestop size where

The user gets all their stats buffed in it for its duration

With probably like a

40% uptime

[opaque quartz]

Kinda spectral if you think about it

Spectral is invincibility within an area, as long as your body doesn’t die (before rework)

[marsh sonnet]

I think it’s

Different enough it’s more offensive based

While spectral is

Entirely defensive

Big difference in that to spectral is

Spectral like to keep their areas in corners to keep their body less likely to be attacked cheaply this concept would encourage being very aggressive towards voids

[opaque quartz]

Wait I kinda just thought of a spectral mastery

I’ll maybe post it later

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah it can do that too but

I don’t mind it as much as

Launching atomic nuke snowballs

[topaz pagoda]

Fair and balanced

[low arch]

90% of the games balancing issues could be fixed by removing trophy buffs

[marsh sonnet]

True

Though

Not really snow

You can still get up using unmastered gravity

[low arch]

thats part of the 8%

[marsh sonnet]

Got me there

[celest geode]

another way to nerf snow is to undo the rework

and make it unthrowable and grab you by default but escapeable by jumping

[topaz pagoda]

The other 102% are alch mas

[low arch]

exactly

[topaz pagoda]

So in total 90% are trophy buffs, 8% is other stuff and 102% is alch mas

[low arch]

8% is like

"what if i teamed"

[topaz pagoda]

fr

[low arch]

like ya duh balancing is garbage when u team

unless its intended for it like mush and tree

[marsh sonnet]

Well yeah mushroom and tree I feel like are made to be a bit underpowered so they’re strong together

[low arch]

^

[topaz pagoda]

Ok but trees should be breakable

Tho they should have an unreasonable amount of health

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah agreed on that

[low arch]

ok but what is unreasonable

[topaz pagoda]

alch mas

[low arch]

cause we cant have invincibility disguised as unreasonable

[topaz pagoda]

Ok not THAT level of unreasonable

[low arch]

imo it should be like

200 hp

with a fixed dmg of 10

with some exceptions

[topaz pagoda]

lava

[rigid venture]

Bruh no fucking way we’re talking about nerfing snow of all things

Yeah, the max size snowballs are pretty strong
But that’s quite literally the only thing the ability has going for it, it’s absolute garbage otherwise
This would be like saying to nerf dos because 300 soul dos is too strong
This isn’t like alchemist where they can just sit in a cave and build one up over time
If someone is making a snowball, it is VERY noticeable and they’re extremely vulnerable while doing so considering the fact that making one disables their only method of attack other than punches

Also people can just roll it off the edge while you’re making it anyway

[opaque quartz]

Trophy/ gravity and mushroom is not very noticeable, the map is empty one second, the next theres a giant snowball in the middle

Out of thin air

• even like medium size snowballs can infinite combo

[opaque quartz]

^^

[rigid venture]

Literally what are you talking about

[opaque quartz]

Have you never used snow while high up?

It grows even while falling

And trophy on mushroom launches wayy higher than ever intended

So combine those two and instant giant snowball

[rigid venture]

ok both that and the infinite combo more just seem like oversights regarding how the snowballs work

[opaque quartz]

Exactly why it needs a nerf

To fix those issues

[rigid venture]

I wouldn’t really call that a nerf

[opaque quartz]

Kinda is

Making snow not able to infinite combo is a nerf

The large one shouldn’t even be able to be made with trophy like that

Soo

[rigid venture]

I personally consider a nerf to be making the intended gameplay weaker
Emphasis on the intended part
But that’s just me

[opaque quartz]

Infinite combo COULD be intended, or not can’t really know what they wanted or not

I know almost for a fact that trophy isn’t intended

[opaque quartz]

also this suggestion is nerf/rework, even if it isn’t counted as a nerf a rework would fix these issues

[rigid venture]

Do you really think an instant kill projectile is intended

[opaque quartz]

I mean they did specifically code it to stick onto people, so it is kinda what they wanted for instant death

Infinite combo, maybe

[rigid venture]

Yeah but that’s for a big one

Not a small one

[opaque quartz]

Cause it does do very very little knockback

It’s basically asking for repeated hits

[topaz pagoda]

This is what we are talking about btw

[rigid venture]

I know

I agree with getting rid of that and falling snowball growth

[opaque quartz]

Legit made a reply referencing exactly that

[topaz pagoda]

Fair and balanced amirite

[opaque quartz]

I mean I don’t really see a way small snowballs would work other than combos

So maybe it is intended??

[topaz pagoda]

That's just stupid

Yeah guys let's make it take away like 80 health

Because sloppy coding

[rigid venture]

It’s just a large projectile that bounces across the map

[opaque quartz]

And that would be useful in what way?

[rigid venture]

It’s a large projectile
That bounces

It does damage

[opaque quartz]

Almost like that’s already what it does

[rigid venture]

Because it is

[topaz pagoda]

Also rework the snow wall istg

It is so bad

[rigid venture]

I’m literally describing the snowball

[topaz pagoda]

You can wallhop on it

[opaque quartz]

So you’re saying to rework small snow, keep snow how it is?

[rigid venture]

I literally did not say to rework small snow

[opaque quartz]

I did mention it, by saying there’s no other way snow would work

Then you replying is saying that it could be a possible solution

[rigid venture]

What

No I didn’t

[opaque quartz]

So this just doesn’t exist now huh?

[rigid venture]

I was describing how snow currently works because you were asking why it’s useful without infinite combos

You’re just blatantly misinterpreting what I’ve been saying

[topaz pagoda]

And snow wall wallhopping

[opaque quartz]

So you’re describing snow, when I asked what it would be like without the main factor of snow?

I mean sure it can knock off at like a certain size

[rigid venture]

I feel like I’m being gaslit because you never asked that

[opaque quartz]

I rephrased your earlier words

[still stump]

They fixed the snowball growing with vertical movement

You can't get an instant max size snowball anymore

[topaz pagoda]

did they fix the funny instant death tho

[still stump]

you mean portal?

[topaz pagoda]

no

This

[still stump]

no because that's not a bug

[topaz pagoda]

That's stupid

[still stump]

it is what it is

[topaz pagoda]

Why tf would that be intended

[azure vine]

it wasn't intended to be a multi hits extends of times instead of once or second hit

So iframe of the snowball IS the bug

[marsh sonnet]

Update: Snow got shadow nerfed & no longer gains size when it falls

We're so back

[junior hazel]

me when the whole server gets wiped out uncontrollably by a snow user with a trophy

[junior hazel]

wait it did?

[marsh sonnet]

yep I was testing it

You can still roll to max size

[junior hazel]

invisible ahh changelogs

[marsh sonnet]

Which is fine imo,

[junior hazel]

are they just not telling us anymore when they change the game

😭

[marsh sonnet]

Rolling snow to max size yourself is like

charging a max railgun

[marsh sonnet]

Plus it is MUCH more spammable than a stack of potions or a max railgun.

You can send them every 30 seconds if you get efficient enough with them

Regardless they finally added that change.

So that's good

[topaz pagoda]

Now it just needs a nerf to the inescapable combo

and nerf alch mas

[marsh sonnet]

Tbh, I dont mind that combo too much though if it was changed to my concept I had for snowballs exploding in exchange of being much easier to build

I wouldnt mind

[topaz pagoda]

you saw that video right

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah ik its super cheesy

But also snow is pretty much complete garbage otherwise

If you removed that and kept snow how it is

It would really be the worst ability other than default

[topaz pagoda]

seat

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah true

I want seat to get an ability built into it to

Throw people forward and is spammable

(Well people sitting on them get thrown forward)

(Yes this could be used with other abilities to make for some of the most fuckass DoS killing combos)

Like throwing a godpunch at a DoS

[topaz pagoda]

that is an obvious reference to alch mas

[marsh sonnet]

Yeah alchemist + godpunch would be stronger still but

That would be funnier

[topaz pagoda]

Speaking of gp

[marsh sonnet]

Think of how much stronger seat would be with that though.

[topaz pagoda]

If you time a propeller after using the mushroom jump pad, you can get on top of the lobby

So you can airdrop on someone with gp

With no help

Fair and balanced.

[junior hazel]

randomize + seat vs dos user:

[marsh sonnet]

Ok true.

[topaz pagoda]

Literally just "random bullshit go"

[low arch]

one niche case but ok

anyways

[junior hazel]

my favorite dos counter is randomize

[low arch]

part of the 8%

[topaz pagoda]

true that, except you can do it alone

[junior hazel]

so many people underestimate randomize until they die to cards

[marsh sonnet]

I don't think dropping onto someone with godpunch works MOST of the time

Plus they can usually just gravity up

[topaz pagoda]

HEY WAIT A SECOND

THAT MEANS YOU COULD GET ON TOP OF THE LOBBY ALONE WITH SNOW

WITHOUT A TROPHY

[marsh sonnet]

Yes you could

With unmastered gravity or that

But that method would sure

Make it so you don't even need trophy or another player

[low arch]

cost heavy 💔

[marsh sonnet]

Reasons to Nerf / Rework Snow (It already got shadow nerfed)

[topaz pagoda]

You get a dollar store railgun

[marsh sonnet]

I forgot to do that

[topaz pagoda]

(that is somehow better???)

Well not anymore at least

[junior hazel]

i wonder if they fixed bb vs bug god in the shadow update

[marsh sonnet]

Who knows

Oh yeah this image is irrelevant now

(Good)

[topaz pagoda]

I should test out alch mas slowness pots to see if they are secretly op

[marsh sonnet]

Uhhh

They really arent if you mean for a DoS

[topaz pagoda]

I mean glue pots worked out against trophy which is huge

[marsh sonnet]

They are really only good if you wanna team with a godpunch to kill someone even then

Not really

I mean you could combo

[topaz pagoda]

Maybe slowness will have a least a niche use

[marsh sonnet]

Slow, glue and godpunch together

Or slow, glue, siphoning together

But its just needlessly complicated for no reason

[topaz pagoda]

Dude imagine debuffing someone with slowness and a gp is slowly coming towards them

That sounds so funny I should try that

[mild herald]

snow is basically railgun but cheaper and less killable by a dos (if you are standing ontop of a max snowball)

[mild herald]

crafter tablet/color cube with god punch

[marsh sonnet]

Oh true.

[topaz pagoda]

Alch mas

[marsh sonnet]

(Yeah, but also rolling up snowballs is totally unviable its why I threw together a small rework on this but this suggestion was mainly to nerf snow gaining size from falling)

Mostly just a concept that would make snow, kinda viable for 1v1's (Not too good but theoretically, it'd be alright)

Kinda makes it less like railgun and more like pulse.

[topaz pagoda]

you know what else isn't viable for 1v1s

railgun

[marsh sonnet]

True

[topaz pagoda]

I remember making a rework but not caring about it so I allowed someone else to use it