Landmine Restrictions & Reducing Building Restrictions

[proud forge]

Nobody likes main-camping.
Everybody like base building.

Restrict the one or two people's ability to go main-camp, forcing Combat Engineers to play strategically with their team on the objectives.
Give more freedom and space for players to build structures around the the objectives.

Inner radius; weapon emplacements, FOB's, Repair stations, ammo crates, HASCO towers/walls, indirect fire shelters

Outer radius; sandbags, ladders, barbwire, landmines

[versed mantle]

Everybody likes base building
It's mostly a waste of time and resources tbh

[rare heron]

Are you suggesting only within a fob radio you can place mines..? Mines are meant to deny vehicle mobility and blueberriers never check their maps within the raidus of them, that sounds horrible lol

[indigo mica]

I 100% do not like base building.
Going by how difficult it is to get players to sit around and shovel things, I do not think even a majority of players enjoy it.

[versed mantle]

What's worse, and what this would only FURTHER encourage, is counterproductive use of emplacements

And removes a lot of very good uses of emplacements

For example: you would no longer be able to place ammo crates along the FOB radius, which further reduces the useful areas in which you can place ammo boxes. A huge nerf!

[vivid widget]

Aren't these two totally unrelated proposals?

Why are they in the same OP

[versed mantle]

Both are bad ideas I think

So I'm glad we saved our time in that regard

[indigo mica]

Needs 2x CEs building up his pillowfort for maximum Minecraft. So take away their ability to place mines away from radios so they have one less reason to put away their shovel and wander off.

Which might be the same logic at play with keeping things like ammo boxes in a much smaller radius.

[vivid widget]

Ok, so it's dumb and I can ignore it

Let's nerf yet another infantry kit, mmk

[proud forge]

What's really dumb is that you lemmings don't see an issue.
The issue with landmines and main camping.

Main camping can be a separate issue, but a Combat Engineer/Sapper is only worth 1 ticket.
So in experienced servers, players will throw HAT'S and Combat Engineers at the enemy's main base because it's rewards out weigh the risk.

You can see this issue is handled differently from server to server in their rules.

Some servers have no main camping, others say "play the objective"

[rare heron]

...Its a server issue not a game issue, forcing mines to only be placed where friendly vehicles are expected to manuever through is goofy

[proud forge]

Can you read?

It's not a server issue. It's an Experience issue.

The Experienced players that know what they're doing will send a Combat Engineer on a RHIB, ATV, Dirt Bike, or the Cheapest Vehicle that they got to main camp.

Because it is easy

I don't know what to tell you if you can't drive around landmines in the radio radius.

Actually I do know. It's a Skill issue.

[rare heron]

Why would you willingly put mines where you only are expecting friendly vehicles to be roaming through? If a enemy vehicle is inside fob radius then I expect friendly AT kits to shred them, not friendly mines placed everywhere.

[rare heron]

Lmao, shithead, some servers have rules against maincamping, some don't. Its entirely dependent on the server to reinforce those rules. You are welcome to make the argument for a wider exclusion zone around main bases for mines, but relegating them to be only inside friendly FOBs is peak stupidity.

[proud forge]

Peak Salt

[vale tartan]

"experienced players that know what they're doing will send a combat engineer.... to go main camp"

ok. if it's against the server rules, report it to the admins and they'll get kicked and banned if they continue.

not sure what's so hard for you to get about that

[proud forge]

Some people lack critical thinking Skills. Take the image that I posted. Note how it looks like friendly vehicles are coming in from the East and enemy icons are on the West. It would be a good idea to place landmines on the West and South roads to stop enemy vehicles from entering your FOB so easily.

[indigo mica]

I don't think mines are a problem.
I don't think mines are the most impactful component of main camping.
I don't think main camping is a universal problem on servers.

Play on servers that don't allow it if it bothers you.

[vale tartan]

if you dont want to open your mind to the reality that people don't agree with you and resort to ad hominem calling everyone lemmings, we cant stop you but it won't do any good to convincing people you have a legitimate point to argue

[unkempt barn]

#1474886296198578269 message
I like base building, but I have to admit:
90% of the time a HAB+ammo box is enough.
And the other 10% of the time, when it's needed, the ones doing it have no idea what they're doing.

The reason everyone considers it a waste of time and resources is because every time someone starts building, they don't stop. It becomes an unlimited objective, when in fact it should be fairly limited.
There's no need to build a traditional base.
FOB in an open hangar? Just block the entrances off with hesco walls so enemy vehicles can't start easily camping the HAB. There's no need to do more outside an invasion match.

[vale tartan]

high likelihood you just hit a mine somewhere you didnt like, blew a fuse, and came here to vent. your suggestion to restrict mine placement to within FOB radius is nonsensical

[proud forge]

It's like in other games when a Fighting Character is too strong or a Gun is too OP and it leads to a lot of cheese strats... that nobody likes... but the Devs keep it in the game... even if it's banned in competitive play... so I would like it core issue to be fixed instead of ignoring it

[languid bloom]

I get the idea, I think it is too limiting.

[proud forge]

saying play on a server with the rules and admins online isn't fixing the issue

[languid bloom]

Letting small defences be placed inside the blue circle would be sweet

[indigo mica]

People don't agree that the issue is actually a problem.

[vale tartan]

you're just a lemming! /s

[proud forge]

it is such an issue

[languid bloom]

But maincamping with mines is a problem that should either be solved by admins or with a larger/more specific hardcoded main exclusion area for mine placement

[proud forge]

idk if you guys just don't play on exprienced servers or on servers with active admins

[indigo mica]

Not really, if you get strangled in your main or hit a mine, there are things you can do to react or prevent that.

[languid bloom]

My biggest fear with mines being FOB-exclusive is that if you want to lay backline mines (not maincamping, just MSR) then you are giving away 20 tickets most of the time.

[indigo mica]

I play on servers with rules I like. It solves 95% of my problems.

[languid bloom]

And also now have to dedicate a whole logi truck to mining

[indigo mica]

A logi truck and an SL.

[proud forge]

play on 7th or an expericened server with no main camping rules

[unkempt barn]

Are there any other ways to detect mines other than the MK1 eyeball in ?

[proud forge]

just do that

[vale tartan]

or dont because their rules suck

[indigo mica]

I do play on a server with no main camping rules.

[vale tartan]

🤯

[proud forge]

experienced?

[indigo mica]

YEah

[vale tartan]

if you want to petition for game mechanics to enforce maincamping restrictions like widening the radius around main that prevents projectiles/enemies that would be a whole other story.

and i wouldn't be opposed to giving hosts more tools to better enforce their rules.

but this idea is obnoxiously and laughably restrictive

if you think 7ths maincamp rules (or lack-thereof) are stupid, like many do, dont play their server!

others do like it (for whatever reason 🤷‍♂️)

to each their own

[indigo mica]

You can easily solve your problem by not playing on that server or convincing them to change their rules.

[vale tartan]

.

[proud forge]

I don't believe it. You must be the guy placing down the landmines, while your buddy running a HAT kit in the 5-6 man squad that's focused on maincamping and hunting down vehicles. It's TOO easy to have an organized team main camp by sending at least 1 combat engineer to maincamp on the majority of maps. It is map dependent, it's harder for you to maincamp on Talil Outskirts than it is on Saxan Islands, but acting like it's not an issue that needs addressing is wild.

[vale tartan]

idk man go play a server with better admins or something

[proud forge]

that's just lazy

and it doesn't solve anything

[vale tartan]

this problem literally doesn't exist where admins enforce their rules

[proud forge]

What an easy response

You don't like the game... don't play it

[vale tartan]

no that is plainly not what i said

you dont like the server, don't play it

[proud forge]

There's a core issue with the game that I don't like

The issue that it's so easy for an organized Squad to main camp

I don't like it

[vale tartan]

and we are saying your suggestion to fix that issue is stupid. like i said, if you were suggesting to make the protection radius around main variable so servers with maincamp rules could set it to 800m or whatever i wouldn't be arguing with you. but the suggestion you did make is dumb

in my opinion

[indigo mica]

Maincamping is only as easy as the team being maincamped makes it.
They have a very short distance to travel, while maincampers have to cross the entire map. They have time to get organized and prepare.

[indigo mica]

Then do not play on servers where it is allowed.

[vale tartan]

or make better suggestions to fix the issue. 18 👎 shows people dont like this one

[proud forge]

#1462644437933887609 message

give it a thumbs up

and a comment that you like it

[vale tartan]

there you go

[proud forge]

I know you're the dude that's maincamping

[indigo mica]

I really don't, but I have had to deal with it.

[proud forge]

"It's not easy, it's only as easy as the team allows it"... you're not fooling me

[vale tartan]

on servers that enforce restrictions keeping enemies 600m+ for example it really isnt very difficult to deal with

[proud forge]

it's stupid easy for an organized team to main camp, and you love it

[indigo mica]

"...allows it to be."

[vale tartan]

but i agree it can be frustrating when someone doesn't respect the rules and blows something up before admins can take action

[indigo mica]

It's easy for an organized team to do anything in game. We aren't designing spaceships here.

[vale tartan]

anyway im leaving before this gets too cyclic

[proud forge]

This guy with his homie is diving on an ATV all the way to the other side of the map to blow up the enemy MBT that's spawning in 10 mins... the poor guy that's doing the logi runs is just a bonus

[proud forge]

"It's easy to do anything in the game... IDK why you're calling out this cheese strat in particular..."

[indigo mica]

I know why you're calling it out (got rekt), what I don't know is why you play on the few servers that allow it.
"No main-camping" is one of the most common server rules and you really have to look for servers that allow it.

[proud forge]

Why not just fix it for the base game?

[rare heron]

As somebody who baby rages about mechanics in this game, this dude is absolutely baby raging lmfao

creates problem for himself by playing a server that allows maincamping

"I'm not the problem, the servers not the problem, the game must be!" When its just mines...

[indigo mica]

Because there isn't a problem to be fixed.

Everyone has their own opinion about it. They find servers that match their thoughts and play there.

[vivid widget]

Two things can both be true:

1. Maincamping, on certain layers/maps, can be overly strong
2. Your idea of how to balance that by severely limiting mine placement is very bad

Maincamping is primarily an issue because of bad map design that makes it too easy to cover exits out of certain main bases with limited resources. That's the real fix, redoing layers so that main bases have many viable exits which greatly diminishes the effectiveness of maincamping of any kind (not just with mines).

[versed mantle]

Classic Thunderpoo thread

Give direct reasons why idea bad, he goes on generational crashout about how dumb you must be to not agree with him

[proud forge]

Idk I think you guys are a bunch of babies

the radio radius is pretty big

[versed mantle]

Classic Thunderpoo response

[proud forge]

placing landmines in there and not having your friendly vehicles run over them... pretty EZ

[versed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/baseketball-matt-stone-not-getting-it-not-getting-the-point-missing-the-point-gif-13403481043215183778

[unkempt barn]

Tbh, I think Thunder is arguing this from the wrong direction.
IRL conventional militaries place minefields always with the intention to cover them, at least with vision. It's in the doctrine. Otherwise the best mines do is delay the enemy. Clearing minefields, or a way through them, only takes time and a few resources if done right (not being under fire helps a lot).
And digging mines into the tarmac, like we can in-game, leaves obvious holes easily seen from afar irl. Not to mention the time it should actually take to dig such a hole with a pickaxe.
From my point of view there is precedence for this, but only for the conventional factions. Militias should still be able to place mines anywhere the hell they want. P.S. It's more the insurgents that place mines in the rear in a way that there isn't an intention to cover them (unless command detonation). So if they wanna be proper insurgents, they'd warn the locals.
P.S.S. Also I don't think these mines should disappear with FOB destruction, representing the nature of mines very well and leaving a loophole for the conventional factions.

[rare heron]

no

Mines deny location access, denying friendly vehicle movements in friendly supply points is honest to god the dumbest suggestion I've seen anywhere

[unkempt barn]

Mines are not supposed to deny friendly vehicle movements, but block, direct, harass, provide security etc in the face of the enemy. They are always placed intentionally to do that.
If a team places mines in a way that denies friendlies important movement, it sounds like to me something has gone wrong or there has been a miscommunication on some level. Especially in a game that marks all friendly mines on the glorious blueforce tracker called the map. Aka a skill issue.

[rare heron]

Yes its a skill issue, there is a constant revolving door of new players in this game and thats not something you can deny, friendlies ignoring the map is always gonna be a constant factor, especially when you're traveling in/through a friendly supply base.

[unkempt barn]

How many brand new players you see going around putting mines in stupid places?
I haven't seen any (yet), but I've died plenty of times to my own stupidity/ignorance/inexperience.

[rare heron]

The mines won't be placed by experienced players if they're restricted to only being placed within a FOB radius. Blueberries do not check their map for mine marks let alone friendly ones, more often than not.

[unkempt barn]

I feel like "because noobs" is a very poor excuse not to consider something like this.
Besides, I thought the nature of that excuse was hated around here, because it presumably helped bring ICO into existence.

[rare heron]

No. its not just because of "noobs", its a stupid idea overall and goes directly against the reason for mines, again they are meant to deny movement for enemy vehicles... Why the fuck are you trying to do it around friendly supply points where you're suppose to expect free movement in order to get in and out when you need to resupply. Go ahead and put mines up around fobs in a live game, see how many people call you a moron because they should and then pay attention to any friendlies carelessly driving ontop of them, that's all the experience you need to tell how dumb the idea is.

[rare heron]

Also random tanget for ICO, ICO didn't come about because of noobs, per say. It was purely a marketing decision based on feedback from youtubers for their neat little thumbnails and cinematic videos.

[unkempt barn]

You're not seeing the big picture.

[unkempt barn]

And they as a company still decided to go with it. You really think they were that stupid? Didn't know the risks?

[versed mantle]

Contentrist is a... fallacious arguer, it's not necessarily worth trying to convince him of anything.

[frosty hound]

couldn't agree more

fucking hate playing on american servers because of idiots always talking some bullshit about "I'll build a superfob on first flag"

makes me want to teamkill the whole lobby and leave the server to never come back

[versed mantle]

Doesn't even gotta be a superFOB, building on the first point at all hurts my brain, but yes that's even worse

[frosty hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771759065436651520/1394600041632763995/superfobANG.gif

[rare heron]

Right because we all know nothing bad came from the ICO update, certainly not the resources lost revisiting it for tweaks/adjustments every 6 months... Right?

[rare heron]

Im about to bash my head in

[versed mantle]

Save your mental. He just gonna run the usual playbook

His last replies are literally begging the question. He’s mind reading the devs and assumes he is correct with no evidence or way to disprove this divine knowledge

[rare heron]

Sad reality is that it only takes a handful of contentrists to sway the devs apparently, dangerously stupid shit.

[versed mantle]

Eh, I wouldn’t worry too hard about that.

Despite his apparent telepathy to read the devs thoughts, he is not close to them in any meaningful capacity. At least given past behavior the devs are more likely to just ignore feedback than to change direction towards an unpopular minority

[rare heron]

I'm aware, the devs do seem to crackpot their own random counter intuitive measures for ruining gameplay

[versed mantle]

Exactly

[unkempt barn]

You say resources lost, I say well used.

[unkempt barn]

I thank you for this compliment, that you think people like me have that much power.