Update BLUFOR to modern standards too, not just Eastern nations!

[lavish spoke]

Alright, I'm going to say it: why on earth are China and Russia getting heaps of modern equipment that aren't even universal (like the QBZ191, AS Val, Sprut SDM1) whilst BLUFOR is rocking kit from nearly a decade ago?

USMC:

• Still have PASGT/low ECHs. The high-cut ECH started being mass issue in 2021. They often also have Peltors.
• Still have M16A4s for nearly every kit. M16A4s are only with rear-echelon units like logistics. Same with most M4s. M4A1s are often used by weapon crews and Squad Leaders. M27s with foregrips and often suppressors are standard since 2020.
• AAV family been removed from service since 2025
• M1A1 Abrams retired since 2021.

USA:

• Still use M4 as standard in-game. M4A1 has been standard since 2018.
• THE M939 TRUCKS BEGAN BEING PHASED OUT BY THE LMTV IN THE 1990s DUDE.
• M7 and Grippods are also being floated into service.

ADF:

• Mainly use KAC foregrips and EoTechs. Those are only used by support units and on machine guns. The SpectreDR and Grippod are standard, have been since 2019.
• ADF have no APCs. They should get the M113AS4 or LAV APC like Canada, as without they struggle in-game to have mobility (the Bushmaster can't cope), and they've had hundreds of these vics since VIETNAM and the 1980s.
• Add new ADF armour. The PMV-L Hawkei and Boxer CRV are already common and should be added, and the AS21 Redback is about as prevalent as the Sprut not gonna lie...

CAF and BAF have their own items that need fixing, like adding the L85A3, and CADPAT-MC.

So why are Russia and China so modern if BLUFOR is still using kit from the 90s? Listed aren't recent changes. Am I missing something? Or is TenCent pressuring OWI to buff China because the CCP can't have the PLA seen as weak or smth? It's unrealistic for China to have every other kit use a suppressor whilst M16A4s are still common. Either have the game be set in 2018, or keep all factions up to date. Pick one please, and stick to it.

[fast idol]

just give more M4A1 to US light units like M27 IAR on USMC

[timber cobalt]

I'd say set it to 2020

fits both worlds

M16A4 was still used, in light, by then
M1A1 was still used by USMC for them to keep a tank battlegroup
All the chinese stuff is fresh to their army
US can get M7's for Air/Inf Battlegroups and seem legit

[sleek elm]

yeah, there is no reason to get rid of content. It is better to have some sub-units be modern and other old. Kind of like what they did with PLA, where support still get QBZ-95 but IMO it should be about half the sub-units are old and the other half are modern.

[vital plover]

it would have made more sense to give PLAAGF and PLANMC the new stuff and the army the old. It would probably be more authentic this way since those subfactions are much more relevant for future conflicts china is facing. It would make sense to give them the best stuff

[sleek elm]

yeah PLA was already the most played Chinese faction, if they were to give it to PLAAGF and PLANMC, it would encourage people to vote for those factions more often.

[timber cobalt]

^^^^

instead they made PLAAGF even less desired

[magic dove]

CRV Block I to the Armoured Battlegroup, but it shouldn’t be in large numbers. Rollouts of the Redbacks haven’t begun yet and the Spikes would be problematic when it comes to balancing.

[devout fog]

make BAF more modern, it's all 2015

[languid inlet]

For real. They need to update the BAF next.

[plush bridge]

PLAAGF shouldnt even be a thing in the firstplace, should just be amphibious battlegroup for PLA

PLAAGF isnt a thing IRL

[arctic elk]

How is that As Val a modern?

[tranquil mica]

The issue isn't new content imo, its more of power creep

[sleek elm]

i didn't say the new content was an issue, just that the new weapons should have been only added to the less popular factions (PLAAGF and PLANMC). And I agree on the power creep, but that is mainly from how many suppressors PLA gets.

[jolly plover]

High cut helmets are so ugly 🥀

[lavish spoke]

There are only like 500 made.

[tranquil mica]

Yeah the suppressor spam I can see being a potential problem

To where every faction has suppressor galore and nobody has any indication of where they are being shot from.

[arctic elk]

Are they?.. then i guess ukraine already captured half of them now..

[sleek elm]

well the main problems with suppressors is how unrealistically quiet they are at distance. If they made the sound realistic it would not be that powerful

[tranquil mica]

True. But theres also muzzle flash hiding

[tranquil mica]

Bro I've been wanting a BAF and ADF rework for so long. Shame to see the same couple factions updated over and over

[arctic elk]

What new things you wanted for BAF, and ADF?

[tranquil mica]

Vehicles for a start

Also their kits feel lackluster and behind

Like mineless CE for BAF (why)

[drifting umbra]

i think the justification was ottowa treaty signees. but idk how accurately that reflects their anti-vehicle doctrine

[jade minnow]

Do they even have anti tank mines?

[arctic elk]

Yeah what kind?..

[tranquil mica]

IRL they dont

Well they do but dont use them

Not Not being IRL hasn't stopped stuff before

[sleek elm]

Jackals and RWMIK Land Rovers with .50 Cals, GPMGs, and 40mm L134A1

[arctic elk]

Tbf.. sprut SDM existance is kinda unicorn.. Kurganets or even btr-90 have more rights than SDM.

[jade minnow]

Kurganets doesn’t have any rights

[arctic elk]

Ahh mann.. i miss that land rover in basra PR2.. kinda suck, but good against INS

[arctic elk]

I mean.. in 2015 parade they atleast have 11 of its

[sleek elm]

and for ADF. ASLAV-PC, M113AS4 and G-Wagons

[arctic elk]

Well.. so far there are no unicorn i see.. hope owi will consider this

[lavish spoke]

Yeah no they're all abundant. There are also hundreds of Hawkeis in service too. They'd be great

[arctic elk]

How it differ compare to already existing Bushmaster?

[lavish spoke]

If the bushy is the M1117 then the Hawkei is the Humvee

Its a 5 person light car version

The Bushmaster is PMV_M (medium) and the Hawkei is PMV_L (light) for reference

[sleek elm]

Hawkei

[arctic elk]

Ngl, sounds like a nerf?.. maybe it good at speeding

[lavish spoke]

Main benefit would be to complement the bushmaster, not replace

Work sort of like the LUVW for CAF

It and the bushy are both mine 'resistant' (in that no mines in game could kill them IRL)

[sleek elm]

also ADF has G-Wagon Logis

[arctic elk]

Small logi is good, but too much protection on it would kill the game balance. Lynx and safir is added because how little protection they have

[lavish spoke]

Yeah. They're mainly rear-line roles, whilst Hawkei takes the front. Anywhere with a threat of bullets and bombs the G-Wagon would avoid

[sleek elm]

it doesn't have armor

just like the Canadian LUVW in-game

[arctic elk]

Isnt that luvww can withstand small rounds in game? I might wrong

[sleek elm]

nope

[lavish spoke]

That'd be the Hawkei's issue.

It's same armour as PMV

[arctic elk]

Maybe they can add to all faction a small logi, for support, logistic, subfact

Surely almost all faction have it

[arctic elk]

Irl

[brazen walrus]

Why cant we just remove the 5 year m4a1 nerf and give back the old m4a1 kits?

[sleek elm]

Humvee Logi for USMC/US Army

[lavish spoke]

Russia has those older mini vans. They'd be funny

And they're abundant both now and in 2018

So whichever time OWI decides to pull out of nowhere as the games setting that would work

I still think ADF should get Grip pods and SpectreDRs as standard. They can throw in some other grips and kits here and there, but if they're doing it with China they should do it with ADF, they've had those standard for a decade now.

[sleek elm]

well that is just Squad make stuff up for kits, which I don't have a problem with. Like USMC basically gave ACOGs to everyone, but for Squad OWI gives certain kits iron sights

[lavish spoke]

Issue is China now has a very strong advantage over everyone else, and it's hardly 'realistic'

[arctic elk]

How?

[sleek elm]

the advantage is the number of suppressors, but the weapons and optics are fine and balanced

[lavish spoke]

Suppressors and grip pods.

Grip pod is pretty meh in most areas, but it means at range they are lethal accurate.

[arctic elk]

Tbf, one day of PLA production equals an entire years-long ADF program. That's why the QBZ-191 scale seems totally justifiable to me.

Unless with grippod, and supressor ofc. Thats another level

[magic dove]

I think it’s a no-no on foreign deployment but they keep inventories of them for if things go very south.

[magic dove]

ADF shouldn’t get G-Wagons. They’re used only really in Australia, they aren’t sent on foreign deployments.

The Hawkei fills all the same potential roles, and better. There exists a 2-seater variant of it which can be used for logistics, as well as RWS mounts on 4-seater Hawkeis. The RWS have even more capabilities than those on the Bushmasters, with autocannons in trial for anti-drone usage, and I believe GMGs have been thrown on though I’m not as certain on that.

[magic dove]

This is my understanding at least

Based off of this excerpt from the ADF website, and my assumption that any role the G-Wagon might’ve been held in reserve for in a hypothetical overseas engagement, the Hawkei would nowadays take over.

[magic dove]

Though the 2-doors carry only 1/10th what the HX trucks carry, 1500kg vs 15000kg. Given the current carrying capacities of vehicles though, I don’t think OWI cares much about this. 🤷‍♂️

[gentle yacht]

Iirc the ottawa treaty is specific to anti-personnel mines

So the justification was always a bit questionable

[magic dove]

Yeah

Would be cool to see the bar mine for BAF, and even cooler if it could also be used as a less powerful makeshift C4 like in real life

[lavish spoke]

Yeah the Hawkei is intended for the front

[magic dove]

Other thing I’ll say is that the ADF doesn’t use M113AS4s anymore, I wouldn’t be against their introduction but it’s a bit murky for me.

[lavish spoke]

I mean if its got 2 doors and 1400 supplies only then I think the armour would be fine. I mean the BTR-ZD has about the same armour, in this instance more supplies traded for speed

[magic dove]

It wouldn’t be mad even imo for it to have less than 1400

[lavish spoke]

Main justification is that some people reckon OWI aims for a 2018 setting

[magic dove]

There should be 2-door logi and 4-door transport/light combat variants available

[lavish spoke]

Yeah I'd be fine with like 1k. Less would be rough though

[magic dove]

The other ADF question I think is the Boxers

[lavish spoke]

I don't know much, but I believe there's enough in service to justify adding one to the 3 Brigade BG

There's quite a few now.

[magic dove]

This is the only Boxer that would work.

[lavish spoke]

And also the Abrams. We now have M1A2s not A1s.

[magic dove]

Most of the ones the ADF uses are the Block 2s, and they’re the ones the ADF will continue to use.

[lavish spoke]

Yeah

[magic dove]

But we acquired some of the Block 1s to familiarise crews.

The biggest difference and issue is that the Block 2 has a Spike 2 missile launcher

[lavish spoke]

You could also add them for BAF, so they would have more usage than just one faction

[magic dove]

Which would be incredibly strong in Squad

[lavish spoke]

Though slightly changed.

[lavish spoke]

What's difference in capability from TOW? I've never gotten a clear reason.

[magic dove]

Wikipedia says that 2/14th, the regiment which uses the Boxers, maintains one squadron with Block 1s and one with Block 2s. Given that Block 2s outnumber the Block 1s about tenfold, this seems unlikely to me, and Wikipedia’s source is paywalled.

[magic dove]

Well…
With the Spike LR2, you could have some ally tell you an enemy tank was sighted a couple gridsquares away.
You then fire the missile at the appropriate coordinates, and look through the missile’s seeker itself in IR view to spot the tank. You could also toggle to a day sensor.
After seeing the tank, you can lock it from the missile, and let the missile do its thing and kill it… or manually guide it the last leg of the journey.
The missile comes in at a 70 degree angle.

It’s quite a leap from the TOW.

[lavish spoke]

Regardless of how many, if VDV has the Sprut and AS Val which barely exist ADF can have the Boxer

[lavish spoke]

Fuck wow

That would be busted.

[magic dove]

Yep.

[lavish spoke]

Honestly though I'd take the Boxer even without.

[magic dove]

I mean not all capabilities would have to be introduced but yeah.

[magic dove]

Yep

The other toy the ADF could get would be the LARC-V

5-tonne capacity light amphibious vehicle used by a Troop in 17th Sustainment Brigade in 1st Division

[lavish spoke]

That'd be funny.

[magic dove]

Could be fun for an amphibious or logistics battlegroup, though probably should only be 1 per as we don’t operate many.

[lavish spoke]

Yeah it would be cool

[magic dove]

Getting off-topic but the current ADF Battlegroups are really poorly thought-out

[lavish spoke]

Yeah I agree

[magic dove]

Mainly because we have 1 RAR, 3 RAR, and 3 Brigade, and the former two irl make up the latter.

[lavish spoke]

I noticed that.

Also, they should add 2RAR as Light Inf/Amphib. That would be fun. 3 groups is a bit small

[magic dove]

For sure

[lavish spoke]

Also the actual compositions are a bit odd, they lack a lot of vics. Especially if you just look at images of battlegroups on exercises they show you their kit.

[magic dove]

3RAR is a right bugger because before the mid-2010s it was our only airborne force, and nowadays is our only mech force, and is also our only airborne force in modern times to use the EF88s because Commandos and SASR are rocking M4s.

[magic dove]

Yeah, but that’s Squad

[lavish spoke]

True

Ey didn't we cut the first armoured like a month ago?

[magic dove]

Scrap the Airborne Battlegroup, and give us:
5/7RAR as Light
1RAR as Motorised
2RAR as Amphibious
3RAR as Mechanised
2CAV as Armoured
7Brigade as Combined Arms
10Brigade as Fire Support? Maybe?
17Brigade as Logistics? Maybe?

[lavish spoke]

That'd go hard.

Yeah we don't even use airborne really, that's just SASR?

At least in the sense used in game?

[magic dove]

It’s experimental now, since it’s in 2Div which is reserve and the tanks went to 3Bde

[lavish spoke]

Yeah roger

[magic dove]

2Cdo is closer to what could be in Squad, the issue is that they use M4s

Well M4A1s iirc I’m not sure

Yeah A1s

[lavish spoke]

We call them A5s for some reason

[magic dove]

Oh damn frick that’s right

[lavish spoke]

Because we're special

IDK why I just find it funny 😆

They've got some cool kit on the M4A5s though.

[magic dove]

Yeah

I mean I wouldn’t be against it

[lavish spoke]

Me neither. Would be fun, and they have Turkish commandos in-game?

[magic dove]

I reckon with this you could also get around the fictional Aussie TOWvees by replacing them in 5/7 with R400-armed Hawkeis

Mounting autocannons

5/7RAR gets Hawkeis, 1RAR gets Bushies and ASLAVs, 2RAR gets the LARC-V, 3RAR gets M113AS4s and ASLAVs, 2CAV gets Abrams and ASLAVs, & 7Bde gets Bushies, ASLAVs, & CRV I.

[lavish spoke]

That would go well

[arctic elk]

Okay, this is really ticking me off. I don’t know where you got the theory that the AS VAL is rare and that only about 500 were made. Let’s be real here, that weapon has existed since the Chechen Wars. It was used by Chechen fighters, and also in Crimea and Ukraine in 2014 by separatists. It was used in Syria by Russian Spetsnaz as well. Onjectively, It’s widely used, not some unicorn gun.

[jade minnow]

Don’t forget its cool and i can role play with it

[modest epoch]

Could possibly have older wot options and newer options at the same time kinda like how SPM does France