OWI, please focus on the real issues with the game and not non-issues from crybabies

[summer jolt]

If OWI addressed it as the number 1 issue they identified from the survey, maybe it is a serious issue they need to deal with. Saying that people with legitimate complaints and grievances about the implementation or goals of the ICO are cry-babies and "not serious people" doesn't help your argument, it makes you look desperate.

[pliant solstice]

Same situation, but different sides, huh?)

[summer jolt]

I don't think you get to be the arbiter of which complaints are legitimate or not

[polar cloud]

"ICO cry babies" have been very activist and did organized review bombing and comment spamming, there 100% is a response bias in the survey that results in overestimated anti-ICO sentiments

[summer jolt]

I am not making any judgement about the legitimacy of the complaints, I just take OWI at face value when they say that was a major issue identified in their survey

To be clear the devs did not say that they're rolling back ICO. I think y'all are severely over-reacting to that. It will just mean more significant tweaks/reworks to mechanics are possible in the future instead of the very light touch approach that's been taken so far.

this really does seem like a bit of chicken little "the sky is falling" just because the devs said they recognize that the people who responded to the survey had some issues with ICO they'd like fixed

I don't think anyone would say the last two years had significant changes to the ICO

[polar cloud]

I feel like they leverage the frustration of the broader playerbase about a thousand other issues to blackmail owi into an ico revert. We'll see how that goes

[summer jolt]

I mean if you guys loved the ICO you had the opportunity to say so in the survey, that's on you for not responding if you didn't

If you lined up pre-ICO and post-ICO the changes over the last two years are like a 5% rollback at most

not even really a rollback since the mechanics are still quite different, just tweaking of the existing ICO mechanics to make them less shit

[restive gale]

survey for who?

[polar cloud]

True but thats not how you want to measure sentiments, you want unbiased results for your surveys

[pliant solstice]

ICO did nothing, but slowing down gameplay and increasing lifetime of infantry and vehicles. There isn't better teamwork after ICO or something as it was mentioned

Many weapon classes still undone (MMGs, DMRs, SMGs) and their current versions are autistic version of ARs. AT launchers are my biggest pain after ICO (because tankers are the biggest crybabies, that cried for fucking RKG-3 nerf, that can't be throwed on distances more than 5 meters)

Teamwork didn't changed at all. Lone wolfing didn't changed at mid-high experienced players level.

Cope my friend, just as I did when ICO was implemented, new times have come

[summer jolt]

It's like an election, if you don't show up to the polls then you forfeit your right to an opinion on the results.

Everyone should be whining about the game in some capacity, shit's got major problems

if you aren't complaining about one of the many major problems then you're just mute and/or blind at this point

Doesn't have to be ICO it can be any of a hundred different big issues

Good, so why don't you just say that and not downplay other people's concerns?

It's not like people who want ICO adjustments are against fixing bugs, that's stupid

[pliant solstice]

It's better than not to give a single argument in favor of conservation ICO, but insulting anyone who disagree with you

[summer jolt]

Have you considered that possibly your subjective take on game mechanics is the one that you should "simply get over"

[pliant solstice]

I have nothing better to do than surf Reddit or Twitter/X. I'd better be under iron curtain than go to reddit

[summer jolt]

Besides it's not like the devs who fix bugs are the ones who are tweaking and playtesting ICO values... very different skillsets

[polar cloud]

But owi would want to be Gallup and make predictions on the voter turnout. Thats what you do unbiased market research and opinion polls for, to get a picture of the actual distribution of attitudes. What you are referring to is politics and campagning, you know... the things that got Donald Trump elected as the President of the United States of America

[summer jolt]

I really do not see many people calling for a complete rollback. A substantial rework, yes.

That's just... not true

that "rework" was really just fixing bugs

they unintentionally scaled a lot of sway values way higher than intended

I would consider that rework to really just be the ICO getting fixed but still staying well within its original design parameters

[pliant solstice]

They at least fixed pistols in that bugfix. Which were unusable at the start of ICO

[summer jolt]

oh yeah well pistol sway was like 1000% more than it was supposed to be

I find it hard to believe that people played the original ICO, drew a pistol, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 m and thought "wow this must be intentional"

[pliant solstice]

It's "Realistic" as they loved to say back than

[summer jolt]

"authentic gameplay experiences" blah blah blah

[pliant solstice]

@karmic valley add some space after "https" in links

[summer jolt]

The suppression effects were reduced because they were near-universally panned by all users. It was just a bad implementation that only a very small minority of people enjoyed.

[pliant solstice]

Yes, they are

Now what?

[summer jolt]

See, I don't think that's the case. The suppression was so bad that I think the values were actually bugged, like the sway.

[polar cloud]

How did owi actually avoid survey fraud and control for response bias?

[summer jolt]

There were stacking sway multipliers that would send your rifle off the screen

I don't know how anyone could interpret that as intentional

[pliant solstice]

They nerfed it, because people started using optic sights more often over red dots and irons

[mighty yacht]

ICO is NOT the problem, performance and game play is. Focus on performance and game modes e.g. random AAS should be RANDOM!

[karmic valley]

ico its the best decision what developers do in all theirs hole career, big respect to you guys, thanks for delete this shit laser guns. I hope dev stop listening this babys and stop make recoil smoother and smoother.

[mighty yacht]

I have 6k hours in the game and currently watching it die because people cann't play the game

[summer jolt]

I would categorize that into post-patch rebalancing and bugfixes

saying it was a nerf would be like saying fixing the ZTZ being unpennable after PLA release was a "nerf"

[pliant solstice]

I try to call a spade a spade, even if it's something wrong

[summer jolt]

There is a massive difference between tweaking some suppression values and rolling back the ICO

Rolling back the ICO would mean no PIP scopes, mantling and fall damage reversions, player speed change reversions, misalignment being deleted from the game, aimpunch being deleted... you are severely mischaracterizing what amounts to small tweaks as a rollback

"Oh no they reduced the effectiveness of suppression by 20% but kept all the other ICO mechanics that arguably had a much bigger impact on the game, this is literally the same thing as pre-ICO" calm down

[polar cloud]

Hopefully owi comes forward about their plans in this department soon

[restive gale]

real

squad is not a cod

[polar cloud]

"addressing ICO" can mean anything from "we will talk about how we are not changing anything about it" to "we revert the clock to pre-ICO"

And i heard some people celebrating the latter already

[summer jolt]

I would bet a lot of money that it's going to be rework of some mechanics and changing some values, but not a rollback

Anyone who thinks a rollback is in the cards is delusional, and I am someone who would kinda enjoy a rollback

[pliant solstice]

That's something more DayZ like firefights

[restive gale]

ye

another 4:3 shit like videos

[pliant solstice]

And shitty dub-step

[summer jolt]

I do think leanspam could be taken to silly extents which was not good for the game. Not that many people used it but it existed.

[proven sigil]

If a lot of people dont like something its "organized review bombing"? Ok buddy.

[polar cloud]

No im talking about people who make calls within their respective communities to mobilize their members in a systematic and purposeful way. But you may as well discount this as me not being open to other opinions 🙂

[proven sigil]

Then what did you call all the major content creators dismissing all dissent towards ICO during the playtests (especially around the survey) as a review bombing vocal minority when its now pretty clear disliking at least some aspect of the ICO was the majority opinion?

[calm fractal]

I would rather they don't waste time on ICO. Just leave it or delete it.
I would rather they found a way for the people with old hardware like 1650 that can't currently play to get back in game. Start officially supporting Linux since there are about 40 million steam users on windows 10 looking for a new os. Fix the server browser issue for the Chinese. Find a way for the Russians to see servers without a VPN. Increase fps on old hardware.

[latent hinge]

Ico simp detected.

[summer jolt]

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1993761180431634432/pu/vid/avc1/720x1280/GCCGOTjdYOtdAF_2.mp4

proof they are focusing on optimization. we can close the thread now

[dusky bridge]

Even in the most realistic shooter games, there isn’t such a ridiculous weapon handling system — and you’re trying to defend this as realism?

[proven sigil]

Its not like they need the entire company to work on it. Except for mgs and stam SPM has it dialled in pretty well.

Hopefully theyll update to 5.7 the new foliage stuff will be huge for performance.

[restive gale]

5.7 nanite foliage 🙏

[dusky bridge]

We’re not handing a gun to random civilians we’re playing as trained soldiers

[summer jolt]

Tbh it is not reasonable for them to support an engine upgrade and really exploit what nanite can offer while still supporting a pile of shit like the 1650. Just not doable.

[dusky bridge]

the weapons should be much more controllable

[muted sequoia]

I honestly support the ICO system; it's a good idea, but poorly implemented... But as RELL said, they can contact the modders at Supermod. or the one developing the Resurgency mod to modify the ICO system into something more enjoyable for everyone while maintaining the idea of teamwork, Come on, like they've done on other occasions collaborating with modders

[summer jolt]

They should absolutely fix server browser exploits that are used in the CN community. For the russians, Squad cannot do anything about that. It's to do with certain european ISPs blocking Russian IPs, completely out of OWI's control.

[calm fractal]

I would like to know why they are blocked. Surely there are other games affected and epic and or steam have tried to find a solution. If it's about information getting given out maybe they could allow Russian to only play Russians with some kind of region lock.

[summer jolt]

It is because many EU servers use providers whose networks have blocked russian IPs. OWI cannot control that outside of de-certifying whichever approved provider they are using

It is solidly a per-server/individual hosting issue not something OWI really has control over

[polar cloud]

I don't know of any poll that gathered the opinions of content creators nor am i aware of any evaluation of the influence of content creators on the attitudes of the player base.

As for "disliking at least some aspect of the ICO was the majority opinion":

1. "disliking at least some aspect of the ICO" is super vague, e.g. i dislike "some" aspects of the ICO. This applies to virtually anyone.

2. "the majority opinion" would be a true statement if it was the result of a representative survey. The question is not whether owi survey was representative (it was not, voluntary online self-disclosure
   is the least sound method of surveying + response bias is 100% certain, ill take any bet on that), the question is how biased it is. Some of the anti-ICO campaigning i saw -and what i see may only be fraction of what is actually going on- certainly raised some questions for me and since this topic is raising so many emotions for many, i wouldn't rule out that individual players made multiple entries into the survey (can you rule that out?).

[calm fractal]

If Russia has no internal service providers surely they could use one in China. And if there are any servers working in Russia the documentation on how to get more working should be somewhere like GitHub.

[junior ridge]

In my humble opinion as the worlds greatest opinion haver: This survey just goes to show that players would rather have the ICO fixed and still not be able to run the game than run the game with the current ICO.

ICO is so deedeemegadoodo that players are better off not playing the game with current ICO and that's really funny and also really fucking depressing 😭

[polar cloud]

Fair

[latent hinge]

What's wrong with MG's on SPM (never tried it)

[river ginkgo]

Typical ICO defender -> 300 hours exp player bought this game on steam discount

[junior ridge]

Fact is, survey says that most people have concerns with ICO.

Other fact is, survey says players want optimization and bugfixes.

Just because players want one of these things doesn't mean they don't want others.

To pretend like one of these problems doesn't exist because it doesn't matter to you/it doesn't fit your current viewpoint is counterproductive. It is stupid at best and disingenuous at worst.

To try to insult and discredit the people who voice their concern over any of these issues is just stinky jerkwad behavior. Calling other people's concerns "whining" and referring to them voicing these concerns using negative terms like "review bombing" is just mean and doesn't amount to much other than being a dick.

People rag on the devs for being inadequate which is somewhat valid, but the entire rest of the community is also really bum when it comes to addressing issues. Some of you chumps need to lock tf in.

[latent hinge]

Probably never played before ICO either, never saw the glory days of V2

[placid brook]

The community is completely split in two about the issues of the game, OWI cant make a decision without pissing off one side

I say they just develop squad 2

[latent hinge]

Too much sunk cost

[placid brook]

I was mostly joking

[latent hinge]

Fair

[sand relic]

ICO is part of the game now, has been for years. Optimisation and tweaking of broken features like existing gamemodes and factions that are barely playable now would be top priority.

[river ginkgo]

2 years>7years)

[sand relic]

Oi idiot, Do i look like ive played the game for 2 years? No. Then your argument falls flat

[latent hinge]

The idea they can't do both is laughable. Mods have rolled back aspects of ICO for over a year

[sand relic]

Mods can do what they want, if you dont like ICo play a mod. Dont fuck over my game because you want to qq

[latent hinge]

Lmao "your game"

Clown

[sand relic]

Yes my game, i paid for it. Im happy with the current system, sure it needs tweaks but im enjoying not having Spit and all the other 'pro' clans flooding the servers with their attitudes and game exploits

its been nice

[placid brook]

Idk, just role back some more weapon handling stuff. Give the game a high skill ceiling but don’t go back to pre-ico perfect aim

[latent hinge]

OWI has clearly seen the writing on the wall, which is why they're gonna work on ICO. You're not the only one who owns it champ. No one is asking for QE spam, we just want to be able to not have toddler arms

[latent hinge]

Literally all we are asking for and dipshits act like we want slide shooting

[sand relic]

Im that invested in this game, ive spent over a year doing closed testing for squad, trying to make the game just a little bit better with my feedback and critisms, stepping up to actually try and get actual changes to the game, rahter then just shitting on ICO in an echo chamber

[placid brook]

Both sides are a echo chamber

[sand relic]

People who like/tolerate ICO usually never mention it unless its an argument. People who hate it, bring it up in every conversation

[latent hinge]

Oh noooo, not your investment! Poor baby! Ur right everyone who ditched the game are wrong, everyone who doesn't want noodle arms are just in an echo chamber, it could've possibly be that OWI ruined their enjoyment of the game

[sand relic]

OWI did ruin their enjoyment of the game

And im glad

[placid brook]

I like ICO

[sand relic]

They fixed a massive exploit

Just like,while i enjoyed parkour in squad, it was broken as fuck

im glad they fixed it

Sure, they still need tweaking

but its better now

[latent hinge]

Lmao, you really need a reality check cause the Devs clearly see what you can't

[sand relic]

The devs are responding to a survy of people crying about ICO, not fixing it because they want to

[latent hinge]

A couple years too late but better late then never

[placid brook]

They aren’t going to revert ICO, they might do small changes but not a rework

[sand relic]

And i agree, ICO was brought out way too late

if they were gonna do it, they shda dropped it in like 2019, rather then lying to people about what kind of game they were playing

They drew in all the casuals, then fucked them over later

[latent hinge]

Obviously not, but they know now that the player base isn't happy and it's clear that they know why now

[sand relic]

Poor planning/Project management

[placid brook]

Half the player base, people like it too you know

[sand relic]

He doenst care, that half of playerbase are all clowns

While i can show empathy towards people who hate ICO, he just that anyone who doesnt hate it are all sycophants

[latent hinge]

Would you continue to play squad if majority of ICO was reversed tomorrow?

[latent hinge]

You show zero empathy

[placid brook]

What do you mean majority?

[latent hinge]

Everything except QE spam, like GE levels

[placid brook]

I wouldn’t

[sand relic]

I show empathy for OWI bringing out ICO after they had lied to all you casual for years about what squad was meant to be. They lied to you, got your money then made you bite that hard bullet that this is meant to be a tactical shooter, not a battlefield clone

[latent hinge]

Lol, lmao

[latent hinge]

Yeah dude really feeling the empathy

[sand relic]

I dont show empathy for you banging on ICO as the cause of everything wrong in the world

[latent hinge]

Sure man, make as many straw men as you like

Maybe it will change someone's mind

[sand relic]

Dont need to change someones mind, need you guys to Shit or get off the toilet

[latent hinge]

Cool, welcome to the debate about ICO for the last two years

[sand relic]

Ive been part of it from the beginning

And stuck through it, i didnt run off like a lot of people did

[latent hinge]

Sounds like you already know where the Devs are heading, I can't wait to see how they decrease sway and recoil AGAIN

[sand relic]

I have no idea where the devs are heading

[latent hinge]

Then you clearly haven't been paying attention

[sand relic]

Enlighten me then

also remember that Some things are under NDA

[summer jolt]

I don't think ICO is getting reverted

substantially reworked, maybe

[sand relic]

Tweaked i would be fine with Aidan, there are a few things that are shit in ICO

Substantially reworked i wouldnt, thats just doing a 180

[latent hinge]

Literally the video they put out two days ago

[latent hinge]

That's all were asking for

[sand relic]

If you have really been playing 7 years hue. You should know that what OWI promises in videos and media, and what they actually put out are vastly different

Fast ropes anyone?

[latent hinge]

Oh awesome well then everything they announced means nothing then thanks for the 10000 IQ take

[sand relic]

In some reguards, yes

[placid brook]

Not being able to hold the front sight of you weapon straight definitely is annoying

[summer jolt]

Substantial rework could mean something that fits the goals of the ICO without having as many major pain points

[latent hinge]

And in other regards no, so it's still a pointless statement

[sand relic]

I dont think these guys want that goal though aidan

[latent hinge]

They sure as hell meant it when they announced ICO

[summer jolt]

I think you are asssuming malice where it doesn't necessarily exist tbh

[sand relic]

This guys responces to everyone if u scroll up dont give me a lot of hope in humanity lol

[muted sequoia]

For God's sake, stop overthinking this, it's ridiculous. The ICO system is a good system, but poorly implemented. That doesn't mean we should get rid of it and go back to what? Playing like it's Rainbow Six Siege? Spamming Q and E?
A rework is ideal for this system, something that encourages teamwork, but doesn't overdo it in some areas, like weapon handling, which in real life is ridiculously light, like the M72 LAW.

[latent hinge]

Literally just lessen recoil by 25% for all rifles, 35% for mg and saw kits, lower sway and ADS time by 30% for each weapon, and increase sway negation from stamina to >50% stamina

Just do those three things and you have fixed the game

It's not that deep

[summer jolt]

See tyso! those proposed changes don't even touch like 70% of the ICO

rework, not rollback

[placid brook]

Here we go again

[summer jolt]

people hate weapon handling. weapon handling is not the important part of the ICO, it's just the biggest pain in the ass part

anyone who thinks that sway meaningfully changed the way the game is played compared to something like the 10% infantry movement speed nerf is just incorrect

[sand relic]

There is a middle ground between being able to engage people effectivly when you are firing controlled bursts, and pre ICO headshotting peole with a m240

[muted sequoia]

Dude, I seriously doubt it's as simple as making general modifications like this, lol. It needs to take time, and you really need a team capable of making these changes, because it took the previous team two years to make the ICO system more "stable".

[latent hinge]

That's literally all we ask for, also suppression literally gives some people head aches, so that should be tweaked in SOME WAY (I actually like suppression mechanics, but it shouldn't give people migraines) like aim punch mechanics

[latent hinge]

Pointless statement. No shit it takes work, that's their job

[sand relic]

You said Literally

[summer jolt]

sure, and that is where people want the game to be at

[sand relic]

I agree

[summer jolt]

I don't see anyone advocating for QE spam to return

[latent hinge]

Do I really need to explain to you that people don't use the word literally literally

[sand relic]

Anyone who wants to scrap ICO in its entireity, is asking for just that

[latent hinge]

That's what I've been saying the whole time

[sand relic]

Well then dont call him up on semantics if your not going to follow the rules yourself

[summer jolt]

People asking for the ICO to be reverted just want the game to not feel like shit to play, and can't be bothered thinking about how to change the ICO to get there

[latent hinge]

When? I said his statement was pointless

Not that he misspoke

[sand relic]

No, what youve been doing it calling everyone who didnt agree with you a clown, or someome who doesnt play enough, or isnt as good as you.

Maybe were on the same page about changes to ICO, but your constantly attacking people, meaning your posistion is mired in your own bullshit, so nobody wants to agree with you.

I dont agree with aidan on somethings, but my convos with him arent nearly as hostile, because hes respectful

[latent hinge]

Your average bloke doesn't have time to explain the minutiae of what tweaks and changes could make both parties happy, they remember once enjoying the game, and they knew it felt like shit when it changed.

[latent hinge]

You said you were glad the game was ruined for long time players

That's when I called you a clown

Because it's an arrogant thing to say

[sand relic]

No im glad it was ruined for Arcadey casuals

Im a long time player

Anyone who loved Q/E spam, and all that bullshit, im glad they fucked off

[summer jolt]

You said you were glad that it was ruined for people like SpiT players, many of those players have done more for the community and played more than you have

[sand relic]

Yep i stand by that spit were assholes

[summer jolt]

I don't think trying to tell part of your longstanding community to fuck off is a good way to manage your game

[sand relic]

I agree, ive always said the same thing aidan. ICO was added far too late

[latent hinge]

Lmao as I said, absolute clown. Lumping in everyone who used movement exploits with long term players who just enjoyed being able to obtain target in a reasonable fashion.

[sand relic]

It was wrong to implement ICO after lying to these people for years

[summer jolt]

See I think this is also misrepresenting it

[latent hinge]

Are you at least willing to admit they should have implemented ICO gradually?

[sand relic]

Why? Kickstarter was pretty clear was this game was meant to be

[summer jolt]

OWI under merlin did not lie to players. They had a different vision of a game with more casual gunplay.

[latent hinge]

Some minor sway here, a bit more recoil there, slowly adapt and get actual feedback?

[summer jolt]

The kickstarter talks about adding assets mostly not ICO

[sand relic]

Of course, but they shoudl of started pre 1.0 making these changes, and outlined what these changes were going to be

[sand relic]

ICO wasnt needed as the game was meant to be the Spiritual successor to Project reality

[latent hinge]

Well at least that's ONE thing we can agree on

Better than nothing

[summer jolt]

People who played for a long time saw v10, assumed that was all the ICO that they were gonna get, and were cool with that

[latent hinge]

I was genuinely shocked when they said ICO was top of their list. I've still been playing in spite of it since my enjoyment comes from other aspects of the game as well as shooting. I genuinely thought this was the final ICO build so to speak

[sand relic]

But the game never reached that apex, so they just ignored it, worked with what they had. We all liked/disliked the gameplay mechanics but we got on with it.

Then bang 5 years later ICO drops, seeminly out of nowhere. It fixes somethings, makes it more like what they promised at the start, but pisses off everyone who joined in that interim period, because they knew nothing of project reality or trying to make a game like it.

[latent hinge]

I don't want to neck myself from trying to ads now at least

[summer jolt]

Same, and now the pro-ICO people are suffering from the same whiplash the rest of us felt when those blogs were dropped.

[sand relic]

lol whiplash?

[summer jolt]

This is why doing your game development in an antagonistic manner the way the original ICO was done is really, really bad

[sand relic]

Again i agree, they implemented it fucking awfully

[latent hinge]

What the game should or shouldn't be is always going to be based primarily on (drum roll everyone)... Player numbers, retention, and revenue. So ultimately what the game was or wasn't meant to be in the original Kickstarter is moot.

[summer jolt]

Yes, it's over a decade since the kickstarter. Let's not pretend that it matters anymore.

[latent hinge]

OWI did a lot of work advertising and running sales after ICO for exactly that reason

[sand relic]

At that point, the game should of just stuck to its guns, it wasnt a PR successor anymore as much as it wanted to be at the start. And sure since ICO im happy with any changes that push us closer to that goal, because PR was the best fucking game of the last 20 years, and yet was a mod made for free by devs working for free. and is now effectivly dead.

But they shouldnt of fucked over hafl their playerbase, even if i personally couldnt care about those who left

ICO as a concept is fine, but it should of been planned from the start

[latent hinge]

Losing players now that there is actually DLC revenue will hurt the game way more than ICO ever did. So the Devs will definitely be listening to player feedback. So ultimately it will be up to what the Devs think will keep the most spenders

Especially now they have shuffled the team around

[sand relic]

Do you think the guys buying squad for the PVE content will benefit the community lol?

[latent hinge]

I have no clue I don't really have any opinions of PVE

My mates and I will probably play the free one that's as much thought as I've given it

[sand relic]

Its certainly not what either of us bought squad to do though yes?

[summer jolt]

Tbh squad will never be PR. It is not the same asset soup that PR is and will never get there.

[sand relic]

I know, i just belived that promise for too long

[polar cloud]

😏

[sand relic]

I drank from the koolaid for too long on that one, i mean they fucked up insugrency, the best gamemode in PR, to the point that 95% of squad players dont even know what insurgency is

[summer jolt]

Squad has its own thing going on and that's ok

It shouldn't try to be PR

[sand relic]

Well it did, but then they tried to 180 it with the ICO

[latent hinge]

No, but It also seems they have brought in outsiders to build those systems, so ultimately I think it will probably pay for itself without detracting from PVP development, but i understand the opinion that it could be time better spent on things we all want like optimisation and bug fixes.

[latent hinge]

That was for this

[summer jolt]

Ehh, I think the ICO was more like a vague attempt to implement a fever dream of what PR was like

[sand relic]

Oh agreed, and it appeals to me as i as a PR fanboy, but its not PR in anyway. Which is amazing considering how far technology has moved on

The Battlefied 2 Enginge is severely limited, yet they could do so much more then we did with UE4/5

[latent hinge]

Voting also killed insurgency and destruction

[sand relic]

As mentioned in another thread, they were dead before voting

[latent hinge]

They were regularly played in Aussie servers idk your experience

[summer jolt]

also let's be honest, old game + mod, standards for quality on PR are wayyyyyyyy lower

[sand relic]

The insurgency gamemode, is missing a lot of core features that made it unique.
The Insurgents/Opfot are meant to have unlimited spawns (no ticket bleed except with cache loss) but almost no assets
The Blufor are meant to have a set intelligence point system to generate new intel based on how many enemies they have killed.
The whole civilian/Capturing mechanic

I mean even discussing the idea of an Unarmed Multiplayer class these days were shock most people lol

And i dont mean that 'Unarmed' one that exists in the game, for same reason but does nothing

[calm fractal]

They have playtest they could just run that for a while with ICO completely gone just to see how that goes. You might find the 18000 players that left might come back to play?

[sand relic]

I mean an unarmed class that actively helps its team

[summer jolt]

eh my opinion on that has always been that PR insurgency requires a level of community buy-in/socially enforced rules that prevent it from degenerating

[sand relic]

Possibly, but who knows ae

[summer jolt]

it's just not ever going to be suitable for a game available on the steam store

[sand relic]

Too late to ask them 😄

Though i think a lot of brazlians still paly it

and russians

[summer jolt]

low spec requirements

[sand relic]

https://prspy.realitymod.com/

Ye brazil server is sitting on 100

Anyway back ontopic

I think their are more crippling issues on squad right now then an extensive ICO rewrite

The gameplay/Map loop makes the game dull as fuck

[wintry forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1248397649837686885/1398863973612392529/GGs._Scrims_over.gif

[wintry forge]

Na ico is fairly detrimental to gameplay

[sand relic]

ICO is part of the gameplay, has been for years

It needs tweaking sure

but nothing substantial

[wintry forge]

2 years of crap gameplay

[sand relic]

In your opinion yes

[wintry forge]

Big talk for a guy with 7th tags

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1248397649837686885/1398863973612392529/GGs._Scrims_over.gif

[sand relic]

See, this is why you all look like a bunch of children.

Rather then countering him with a rational answer, you just attack him cause of his tags

Pathetic

[wintry forge]

https://tenor.com/view/we-do-a-little-trolling-theteremyjaylor-trolling-troll-troii-gif-22672136

[wintry forge]

But trolling aside it really makes sense that a post about feedback gets downvoted

https://tenor.com/view/he-doesn't-know-the-matrix-agent-gif-13054952393861336642

[sand relic]

I talk with Aidan quite a lot on another discord, always seems respectful even if we disagree, but beyond that i dont really know at TT guys

[latent hinge]

Shit talking tags is based actually, It's 90% of what makes discord fun

[polar cloud]

people are just bitter about ICO because they burned their savings with crypto schemes

[latent hinge]

It only creates drama if you let it

I love when people shittalk my tags in game

its funny as

[sand relic]

I just dont wear tags , problem solved

[summer jolt]

Oh yeah there are big problems with maps and gameplay, but they are part of the same philosophy of "slow gameplay and fewer fobs is better"

the exact same thinking that was used to justify the ICO

if only the developer would put out a survey to get empirical results on the wants of the playerbase... hmm

instead of judging that based on the ratio on a discord feedback post

[wintry forge]

Disagree, more people complained about ico than performance.

Thats why i thumbs down

[summer jolt]

Poppy farmer is just making assumptions about bias with zero evidence whatsoever, there is no reason to take that as fact

I believe the onus is on you and Poppy to prove that something is wrong with the survey results, not us

[latent hinge]

Do you think serveys are a good or bad thing?

[summer jolt]

I understand that there are inherent issues with optional surveys. I also understand that just saying that bias can potentially exist, is not the same thing as bias actually existing. You need to provide evidence of bias

[wintry forge]

What if i told you i did? How would that make you feel?

[summer jolt]

Right now your entire idea about the survey results being wrong is based on... a hunch?

That's not an actual argument

[sand relic]

Fewer fobs was implemented before ICO

and i disagreed with that decision too

[summer jolt]

Same lead game designer, and subsequent changes after ICO enforced the same ideas

[polar cloud]

The absence of reliable data is an excellent opportunity to engage in far-reaching speculation.

[summer jolt]

Like speculating on whether a survey's results are valid or not?

[sand relic]

I think all of this boils down to poor Project Management decisions

[summer jolt]

Since that's all your argument is- pure speculation

[wintry forge]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[latent hinge]

Do you think it's even possible to eliminate engagement bias? Or repeat responders?

[sand relic]

Lets not forget how many people review bombed Squad when ICO came out

[latent hinge]

So would you say there's no point running servey's in that environment? Or even that they are detremental to obtaining GENUINE player feedback?

[summer jolt]

this argument is really boiling down to "no survey can possibly be good enough until it shows the results I want"

[sand relic]

Politics 2025

Im all for Surveys btw

[latent hinge]

Lets agree on that for the sake of argument. Is the ANY method you can think of to obtain player feedback which is reasonably possible to do by the devs?

[summer jolt]

Tbh that was never really review-bombing. Since it's steam reviews and that's restricted to accounts that own the game, the potential for reviews to be "bombed" by mass alting or other such strategies is pretty low.

[sand relic]

But i think this whole situation is a victim of the fact, OWI doesnt really have a plan

[latent hinge]

If I dislike a game for some reason I will give a bad review because it's the only meaningful way I have of putting my side of things forward as a consumer. Call that review bombing if you want.

[summer jolt]

It's really not review-bombing in the way that review bombing is typically understood

[sand relic]

Its only review bombing when they all do it as part of a trend

Because its cool to do

[latent hinge]

So if lots of people do it for the reason I stated above, would that also be review bombing?

[sand relic]

You can post negative feedback sure, but lets be honest, That Squad review bomb happend in like 6 days

[summer jolt]

Many people having negative opinions about an update in the week after its release is not bombing

[sand relic]

You have a very high opinion of humanity if you think a lot of people didnt do it just because their freinds/community were doing it to

[summer jolt]

that's just a release having negative opinions

[latent hinge]

I am being honest, I know a lot of people who posted negative reviews after ICO. That was their only method of making their voices heard and I sympathise with them entirely

Who?

When?

Where?

How?

S T R A W M E N I N T H E W I R E

[sand relic]

The amount of people i know who posted how the game was unplayable now, who still played the game after their post is quite amazing

[summer jolt]

review bombing exists, it's when reviews are heavily botted/alted by agitators or an entity prompts people not associated with the product to push mass reviews following a specific format. That is not what happened post-ICO.

[latent hinge]

What do you think the devs care more about? Some rando on discord/REDDIT of all places, or someone posting a neg review on steam

[summer jolt]

Many people stopped playing for 6-12 months and only returned after some changes to weapon handling or for new content.

[latent hinge]

my money is neg review

When?

quote me

[summer jolt]

you are just making shit up now, Hue never said that

[latent hinge]

Yes, that's literally what a neg review is designed to do

It's not a polite email

or a constructive letter

[sand relic]

Feels like Dejafu

[summer jolt]

yeah we had the same arguments back in the day

[sand relic]

indeed. There is points on both sides of the fence that are true though

[latent hinge]

wow, it's almost like there's two camps of players in Squad, who would have guessed!

[summer jolt]

And yes comp clans did decide to change their reviews, and discussed it internally. I wouldn't say "coordinated". And those people are absolutely allowed to change/add negative reviews, they have way more time in game and investment in the communities than the average person who owns the game.

saying that is the same thing as review bombing is just ignorant

[latent hinge]

So? What's your point? Are you still gonna tell me I think review bombing doesn't exist?

[sand relic]

Yes there is the 'Make Squad Great again' Camp, which used to be the PR players but is now the Comp Players. And there is the 'Keep squad as it is' brigade, which used to te the comp players, but is now the pr players.

Funny how things happen huh

[summer jolt]

I don't think even the PR people want squad to stay as it is right now 🤣

[latent hinge]

Voluntary response bias is ALWAYS going to exist.

[sand relic]

Well, i dont want it to be EXACTLY as it is right now, But im happy without those whingebags around

[latent hinge]

PR is dead in australia to the best of my knowledge so I kind of don't care about this point

[summer jolt]

That's more toxic than the average comp player dude

[latent hinge]

We all know, we just don't care

[summer jolt]

People who play competitively have just as much a right to be here as anyone else

just because you played PR doesn't mean you get to be gatekeeper of who can enjoy the game

[river ginkgo]

Review bombing + online like november 2023 is not connecting things, isn't it?)))

[sand relic]

I would disagree, if i was being a toxic comp player. I would tell you to 'git gud aidan, you just suck, your not as good as me thats why youz complaing'

[latent hinge]

If you are going to have a system to develop feedback, you need people willing to provide feedback. Ergo, you literally can't have feedback without response bias

so your solution is just, no feedback?

[summer jolt]

"git gud" is way less toxic than telling people to leave the game entirely

[latent hinge]

You are an absolute clown lmao, You are literally incapable of even articulating my opinion

[sand relic]

I didnt tell them to leave the game, im just glad they did

[river ginkgo]

ICO 2 years result ℹ️ 🇶 📉

[summer jolt]

it just means "hey, you still have things to learn about the game and there are different perspectives when you play at a higher level"

[latent hinge]

Do you know what a question mark is Familiar?

[sand relic]

They were extremely hostile and basically didnt give a fuck about anyone elses gameplay, as long as it didnt effect them personally. As soon as it did, they quit playing, review bombed the game, and tried to force the devs to reverse the changes because "Without them the game would die"

So honestly, fuck them

I would react the same to ICO players who quit the game if it was removed

[summer jolt]

familiar I don't even know what you're talking about anymore

[latent hinge]

You refuse to even adress our arguments

[sand relic]

To be fair Hue, you have attacked him non stop

[latent hinge]

Rather than just call everyone dumb for disagreeing with you, maybe actually consider what's being said.

[summer jolt]

No as in whatever you are trying to say stopped making any sense an hour ago

[sand relic]

That is also true lol

[latent hinge]

I attacked you, I haven't attacked familiar once until he intentionally straw manned my position on review bombs

[sand relic]

well, i think this thread does show the community is still very split on ICO

[latent hinge]

WTF did Aidan do lol!?

[sand relic]

If significant changes are made to ICO, its going to piss of half the community. If no changes are going to be made, its going to piss off half the community

So what to do?

[latent hinge]

Try and get a feel for which side of the community holds more significant numbers and sway?

[sand relic]

You mean like a survey?

[summer jolt]

he's just spastically lashing out now

[latent hinge]

I'm sure it's not exatcly a 50/50 split

[summer jolt]

no point in engaging

[sand relic]

Many issues in the real world are not a 50/50 split. but it doesnt mater. The side the cries and whinges the loudest gets heard the most

Im sure we can all work out what issues im alluding too

[latent hinge]

I am willing to admit a survey wouldn't be helpful because I actually agree with familiar that bias is a limiting factor (which he would know if he took his head out of his ass)

but we do need SOME way of getting community feedback

[sand relic]

If only we have a community squad discord to voice our feedback

oh wait

[latent hinge]

So i'm open to sugestions if people have the,

[latent hinge]

That has the exact same issue of response bias

Only someone willing to join the SQ discord and make a thread will engage

ergo

response bias

[sand relic]

Im not bias, im happy to accept some change to ICO in order to make it more balanced for everyone as much as you can. But like the OP i dont want them to reverse ICO because a few people cry like pansies about how its made the game unplayalbe, it hasnt, infact im pretty sure we have more players now then we had 5 years ago.

[latent hinge]

Literally everyone is biased

[sand relic]

I dont walk into an a debate with my mind already made up, Which is what both You @latent hinge and you @desert wasp seem to be

[latent hinge]

And i am specifically referring to the issue of response bias

[sand relic]

The only 'contraversial' opinion i have, is that the people who quit the game, and told OWI that them leaving would destroy the game. Can stay fucked off. Selfish twats through their toys out the pram, and claiemd the game would die without them, while rest of us knuckled down and tried to fix the damage

[random crater]

This is quite the interesting read, it’s fascinating to see that the squad community is still so divided over these years.
Yes ICO is here to stay, I wouldn’t worry yourself about it being removed. Yes people dislike ICO, people have the right to have their own opinions and also have the right to express said opinions, whether that be in forums like this, reddit, steam reviews or what not. The same goes for the people that enjoy ICO, they too deserve to say what they say.
However arguing to each other that another person’s opinion is invalid just isn’t correct. At the end of the day we all play the same game, we all what something different, or we may want the same thing. OWI’s job is to gain as much feedback as they can from the community and use that to steer the ship in the direction they see fit. Not to mention, that China, which makes up a large portion of the games player base, has had no say in these surveys both pre and post ICO due to their firewall restrictions.

This constant bickering towards each other on either side of the fence isn’t healthy .

[latent hinge]

I said earlier, I don't want full revision because I understand the cringe that was QE spam and that it felt too much like a solo game than a team game, I want approximately 25% less sway/recoil and a rework of suppression so it doesn't give people headaches

[sand relic]

Never had headaches from suppression

sounds like a skill issue 😄

[summer jolt]

It was a legit problem for many. Tbh I don't enjoy blur being used so aggressively.

[sand relic]

Point is, you cant say that suppression gives you headaches, and then also claim ICO made MG's unable to suppress anyone

[summer jolt]

No video game should cause physical discomfort to its players as a mechanic

[sand relic]

I mean suppresion is obviously working, just maybe too well 😛

[latent hinge]

You absolutely can wtf? Literally just someone who doesn't get the headaches, or a player who is not in cone of supression

[sand relic]

You have 0 control of that aidan

Someone could have an epileptic fit due to graphics of a grenade going off, do you remove explosions from the game?

[latent hinge]

Is that really the game you want? one which actually fucks with peoples eyes and gives migrains?

[sand relic]

Sure, thats a great simulation of suppresion

[summer jolt]

You didn't raise issues. You mentioned possible sources of error but provided zero evidence of actual issues with the survey.

[sand relic]

Ive been suppresed irl, it sucks balls

[latent hinge]

You really are a toxic cunt lmao, I'm done with you.

[sand relic]

Hey now, thats no way to talk to your mother

[summer jolt]

A convenient out for someone who has nothing to back up their statements

[sand relic]

Ive been playing PC games for 30 years, Online gaming for about 27, You cant stop peoples own health causing issues from games. People will blame the games for everything, people going out and being murderers, or for causing obseity etc.
You cant nanny proof games for the 0.111% of people who have issues.

I mean ffs why is their colour in Squad, its not fair for people who are colour blind.

Only realistic one i can see being a direct cause would be something like carpaltunnel

[polar cloud]

from what i saw review bombing is not inaccurate, the point here btw is that it is onesided campaigning

[sand relic]

Oh and this doesnt really help my argument, but its a funny gif, to lighten the mood.

[summer jolt]

Enough people complained about it that it got through to OWI and they added an option to disable weapon model blur. Game devs absolutely can and should add accessibility options wherever it's feasible to do so.

It's actually a mod that increases pistol sway by 5000% but it is funny

[sand relic]

Aye i know its quite awesome though, im curious to see if that ends up being used as an Anti ICO argument sometime

[wintry forge]

You want an autograph too?

[sand relic]

Your mum already gave me her number, im good thanks

[summer jolt]

It was in the past. Personally I still don't like the blur and I avoid it by playing optic kits most games since it's very uncomfortable to try and focus on.

Which you might see as suppression being effective, but personally when I visually check out from the video game I'm playing I count that as a failure in game design.

[sand relic]

The way i envision suppression working, Is the person(S) beings suppressed, can still fire back, but with almost no ability to accurately target the shooter, so they have to rely on their teamates to flank and kill, or to counter suppress/blind the shooter

What i dont like is having noodle arms so i cant shoot back the same direction

Suppresion as a mechanic and IRL works in that your making the people under the area fire feel like popping their head up to shoot back is just not worth the hassle

But, i think i sohuld still be able to pop up and snap fire in response, and be able to shoot in the general direction somewhat accuratly, as oppose to aiming at the moon

The best way to do this is to keep the gameplay as it is, but add visual inhibitors to the player, E.g. Tunnel vision effects and blurs

Not making the suppresed player utterly useless (and also not making the MG player useless)

ICO got it half right, but they need to remove the aiming malus

[polar cloud]

what if the vast majority of players actually want pre-ico and it will be reverted but all of squad then becomes like a GE pub?

[sand relic]

I would still play it

But id be even more grumpy

[polar cloud]

bold if true

[summer jolt]

Reverting ICO completely would not make the game into a GE pub lol

[polar cloud]

i said what IF!

[summer jolt]

It would change very little in the overall from-admin-cam view of the game

[sand relic]

There is a 3rd option.

Have a 'Vanilla' and 'Hardcore' mode

ICO stats on hardcore mode, mabye even go further

PRE ICO stats on vanilla mode

Though doing that now would be a mountain of work, most developers plan for those modes before building the game

[polar cloud]

make vanilla pre-ico and have a full conversion mod project reality that gets to have the good insurgency assets

and car radios

[sand relic]

No i dont mean a mod, i mean an officially sanctioned game ruleset

[polar cloud]

sure, im just goofing around

i guess this thread is thoroughly derailed by now

[sand relic]

Where depending on the server you join, the ruleset changes. So if you connect to say TT you get Pre-ICO values, but if you connect to Baja you get Post-ICO values

[polar cloud]

🫢

[sand relic]

That would, in theory make most people happy

[polar cloud]

could work maybe

[summer jolt]

I'd rather have one system that actually works properly than two that don't

[sand relic]

So would i, but im trying to stop the bullshit arguments

the pandoras box of ICO is open now, it cannot be closed

if ICO was removed tommorow, then anyone who joined the game in the last 2 years will be crying bloody murder the same way the comp boys did with ICO came out

You cant win either way lol

[summer jolt]

I really doubt that tbh. I know many people who joined in the last two years and would be happy to see weapon handling improve.

And honestly... most new players I talk to don't like it.

[sand relic]

Yes but aidan you have to appreicate that we surround ourselves with people who think alike, thats human nature

[summer jolt]

It's unintuitive and makes a very difficult game even more difficult

[sand relic]

So while i have lots of freinds who like ICO, you have lots of freinds who dont

thats pretty natural

[summer jolt]

You yourself say that ICO needs changes still, we agree there. I think the people who are actually "no more changes to ICO whatsoever, v6.0/first playtest was the best" are the true tiny minority.

The kind of people who are attracted to the promise of ICO in the blogs but aren't really willing to come to terms with the reality of how it was implemented

[sand relic]

However that minority are always the loudest

[summer jolt]

That minority specifically is quite loud because squad's biggest content creator is one of them 😂

They definitely enjoy significant amplification over what that opinion actually warrants

[proven sigil]

Still too much horizontal recoil, might as well be rifleman cause you have to tap fire semi to be effective.

[wintry forge]

How can i recover for this sick burn, my career is over

[sand relic]

broad spectrum anti-fungal cream might work

[autumn bloom]

Imagine being in a clan referencing a long dead tactic, nerd.

[latent hinge]

What tactic? Talking shit in all chat?

[bold peak]

From the people I've talked to the issue with ICO isn't the idea of ICO itself, but rather how it was implemented rather poorly. Some aspects are over punishing, but just slight adjustments to some ICO things would go a long way.

For instance I'm glad lean spamming is gone. I love how theres actual suppression (it could wear off a little quicker tho)

I dont like how your soldiers sprints for 2 seconds and is winded. I dont like how if you are 2/3 stamina you still have insane aim penalties. I dont like noodle arms (buttstocks exist for a reason). I don't like how my screen is completely blurry for 5 solid seconds when getting shot at. I don't like how I get a black scope with 5x when moving (this kinda goes with noodle arms tho)

I'm not saying completely remove these features, but they need toned down a little

[summer jolt]

Yup, this is pretty universal feedback I hear from many people.

[bold peak]

PiP scopes also need more work. Seeing a completely black scope just from moving to the right of left is dumb, and also PiP scopes have performance issues tied to them.

[latent hinge]

The concept of pip scopes is great, it just needs optimisation desperately

[latent hinge]

It seems like the vast majority of people I have come across agree with this aside from a certain YouTuber.

[tranquil ibex]

While I do agree priority to optimization and bugs should be first... ICO can still be improved and tweaked. I think it is possible to strike a balance between immersive gunplay and accurate / responsive gunplay. Also, MGs are still pretty horrible even to this day so ICO certainly needs a bit of help too.

No, they won't revert ICO I don't think at all. They built a lot of the mechanics for ICO in plenty of time and it'd be a waste and just a strange decision to revert back a lot of that. What I think they'll do is just continually tweak it with community feedback until it reaches that 'sweet spot'. Might be hard but a better approach than reverting ICO completely imo.

[hoary ocean]

I think reason why it is 1st is bc lot of ppl complaining about it and my guess this was crushing majority in survey results, but also bc it is the easiest than performance and quick win for everybody.

Ico is set of rules, curves and options - that already exists so ico 1st isnt "difficult" but just need some deeper attention on more granual level. Ico currently is just sloppy implementation of good idea.

Where as performance is very difficult to achive, unknown setup configuration, drivers, cpus and scaled by resolution and other factors. So although i agree performance is needed desperately, ico tweaks are small and quicker way for win - thus its 1st and personally im more happy for it to come 1st.

Im developer too (but not gaming industry), and quick wins are more important that massive difficult changes with tons of unknowns.

[slender echo]

It makes little sense to complain about potential future adjustments when there is no information about what the major complains in the survey results actually are. ICO complaits are probably limited to a few specific sub-systems rather than "the ico" at this point. Afaik we dont even know if there is a priority heiracy in the points from the statement. Probably not, cause a game designer primarily does not work on engine optimization, and a programmer does not work on ICO tweaks. So why dont we lean back and complain when we know what OWI is actually planning to change.

[obtuse glade]

You people forget ICO is 345345 different things and they have admitted on the video, in the PTR discord and in the past that they introduced too many things at the same time and it was a mistake, most of you think "ICO" is only about the holding Shift+Left click and tapping head at full stamina, anyone can do that but the other changes that came with the ICO are simply not fun

A)Increased stamina consumption from everything, especially climbing which makes all fortifications and minecraft shit completely useless.
B)Pointless increase of falling damage.
C)Pointless extra sway at all AT even with 100% stamina requiring double the amount of time to stabilize, yes we shoot early the moment the crosshair goes on target but that has nothing to do with the implementation itself.
D)Pointless ADS increase + its bugged either way and people abuse it.

Pretty sure i forget others right now too. The end result is, its a game where you are fighting bugs 24/7 trying to play, they made the only thing that was "okay" unenjoyable, and since then they are trying to tone it down as its a problem.

[fringe pendant]

They duplicated multiple servers, and players will enter a server no matter which one they click!

[junior ridge]

I've already said this in a separate post but I think it belongs here as well:

Im all for ICO slowing down the gameplay so soldiers aren't too strong individually. The issue is that there are so many more factors that affect player effectiveness outside of just gunplay and movement.

When you look at how the gamemodes are set up, and how many other mechanics are in place like revives, spawns, health, map markers among the many other mechanics: you realize that the game is simply set up with individual players as the focus.

Most of these mechanics exist with the individual players convenience in mind. When you impose the ICO on the players, the result is terrible because it starts conflicting with the rest of the game mechanics and inevitablely it conflicts with the players.

If the devs want to change the gameplay, they need to focus on the whole game, not just a small component (small relative to the scope of the rest of the game).

To nuke a single aspect of the game and call it an "overhaul" usually wouldn't work well, but that's just me. Im not a game dev.

[summer jolt]

Agreed. They changed the fascia of infantry combat, but didn't change any of the incentives/mechanics around game rules that were really why people act the way they do in game.

Since they didn't change anything really about the way the other incentives work, the end result was extremely predictable- the same gameplay loop, but more frustrating to play.

[junior ridge]

It is important to keep in mind: Just because the rest of the mechanics favor the individual player doesn't mean that is the expierience OWI were aiming to deliver.

It could very well be a result of this game being heavily inspired by titles like PR and by extension Battlefield with old mode types like Invasion or ASS/RASS. It could be OWI got complacent and never bothered to flesh out the existing systems and just hoped that people would prioritise teamwork based off of vibes instead of game design (if so, BAD IDEA. Players are simply too skilled at finding the most convenient and selfish playstyles regardless of the game).

[burnt cipher]

OWI, please focus on getting rid of double digit iq milsimmers 🙏

[slender echo]

Why limit to them instead of getting rid of double digit iq casual players as well?

[burnt cipher]

They are the same people

[slender echo]

Okay

[polar cloud]

Are you kidding? double digit iq compers are the worst!

[stable mantle]

in today's lecture for how to identify an idiot we have the legendary: Go play COD/Battlefield.

@desert wasp congratrulations on your low IQ bud

[slow sundial]

I wonder how many people that want ICO completely reverted, also want qe spam back.

To me they’re completely different. Qe spam was reduced long before ico

[slow sundial]

Showing v9 gameplay as an argument against ico, well done brother.,, 🤣

[latent hinge]

Literally no one wants QE spam back. It’s just a meme that ICO defenders use to dismiss arguments out of hand.

[slim vessel]

no one wants a total revert, anyone who says so is just being hyperbolic.

[wintry forge]

Yea i think pre ico gamers think tha ico lovers like all the weapon sway and black scope

And ico liver think that all pre ico gamers want QE back

[lean flower]

They're not reverting it back, they're tweaking it

Stop your nonsense

Arguing for the sake of arguing at this point

[slender echo]

That happens when people dont provide accurate feedback and just throw buzzwords around them instead

[obtuse glade]

Accurate feedback was provided in every situation and was ignored

What OWI lacks is transparency, they need to admit to the changes and their reasoning, cause everyone that actually plays knows the reasoning they gave does not exist and the opposite happens.

There would be less complains if they simply admitted "We dont want skill disparity based on aiming" rather than "WE WANT TEAMPLAY".

[polar cloud]

would be relevant if there where squad players that could actually aim

[obtuse glade]

there were, they left.

[polar cloud]

the best of the best... out of a 10k concurrent player game that attracts mainly 25+ yos and has a belly of middle aged milsim dads in its playerbase

get back on your meds please

[obtuse glade]

I dont even understand that type of stupid

Are you trying to insult the current players or the people that left.

I know most of you are unemployed or blue collar or army morons but at least try to argue with intelligence.

[polar cloud]

im offering a realiy check to enable you to reflect on your delusions more reasonably

[obtuse glade]

My delusions of what? its another game, the 95% if cannon fodder morons

a 4% can play the game, and a 1% excels.

As with everything in life.

Oh wait, you are one of the bush camper morons xD

Stop talking to me 1-0-7

[polar cloud]

2025 great ICO flamewar record:
trivial darwinism ✅

[obtuse glade]

I dont care about the gun part of ICO

i just want the game to not be a slog, fix the stamina.

[polar cloud]

pick an arena shooter of your liking and i provide you with an opportunity to demonstrate your aiming skills to me in a duel 🙂

[obtuse glade]

imagine believing i would waste my time to prove anything to a moron that supports the ICO

You are the one insulting out of nowhere, i am complaining about OWI fucking up the game

[polar cloud]

until then hushh my little child of cod 🤫

[weary jungle]

We lose to much time discussing with each other about how "over punishing" the ICO is, other says that that's not true and the only problem in Squad is performance.

Why can't we all agree that the idea of 'punishing players for lone wolfing' is a good idea for the nature of Squad and there are also some big issues about performance (not saying that they should make the game run 120fps on a toaster, but focus in make the game perform better in general) 🤝

Both are valid and real complains that make the community divide and freaking argue with each other all day.

I really like the idea of ICO, I agree that sometimes it feels 'to much', but I also have a playstyle that uses ICO in my favour AND I also suffer from performance issues.

Both are valid. The real problem is that OWI is only carying about adding stuff no one asked for (just like all other companies).

If OWI focused in address BOTH OF THIS ISSUES, the game could be epic and live for many years.

-# sorry for any gramatical mistakes

[obtuse glade]

i wonder which of the EL are you

[polar cloud]

"stop talking to me 1-0-7" 😅

[obtuse glade]

If you defend the ICO you are that.

I dont need to prove anything after that.

[obtuse glade]

No matter what optimization they do, best thing you will get is 10% minimum FPS and maybe the removal of some lightining effects.

UE5 is naturally heavy, instead of expecting a 2023 engine to run on a 2019 machine with the power of 2015

[polar cloud]

Freakatsu, whats you Tier 1 comp team btw if i might ask?

[obtuse glade]

you should start collecting $ to upgrade.

[obtuse glade]

I dont know, my friends are in ENR, does it count?

although all quit and one is left, does it count?

[polar cloud]

thanks for that answer

[obtuse glade]

Should i follow up they filled up for RAT?

SPit?

keep your delulu away, you hurt my brain

and to finish you off, mentioning comp in a shit game like Squad, dear god some of you.

[polar cloud]

keep going

[latent hinge]

Yeah you did.

[wintry forge]

It is very untouched, about half of the features have not been changed: suppression visual debuffs, suppression aimpunch and gunsway increases while under suppression, movement speed, stamina changes, and the best one DOF blur.

Gunsway and some Pip use ability changes happened but a portion of features added with ico have not been changed

[proven sigil]

I dont like it. I also dont like QE spam. There were other ways to fix lean spam than giving everyone arthritis.

[wintry forge]

QE spam is cringe tho frfr

[latent hinge]

True

[bold peak]

Yeah I forgot to mention how bad MGs have become

[rain gull]

https://youtu.be/Kk3OLib5KSk?si=1q-bkrmjUqPszfV9 QEQEQEQEQEQEQE

More ICO less COD

[summer jolt]

Jumpwer pretty hype, good montage

[bold peak]

This does make me miss the pro ico AUF bullpup 😂

Imo that was one of the guns hit worst with 6.0

Went from S tier gun to easy C

[summer jolt]

The PiP ranging was completely broken for at least 18 months I think

Post-ICO

[lean flower]

I still do QE and haven't lost a fight yet.

[sand relic]

EF88 Is still a fking laser gun bud. Best weapon to hipfire