Leopard 2A4 as a complimentary MBT to go alongside the Turkish M60T MBT.

[quick parrot]

2a4 doesnt have a rws cmd gun? seems like a downgrade to m60t

i guess hull down would be better for the leopard tho

[sly lily]

It does have a smaller profile than the M60T

[tiny ether]

Would probably Chance all units to 1 MBT instead Off 2.

And 2 instead of 3 on Armored.

And i Love my 3 MBTs on Armored.

So a big NO❌

[burnt turret]

only because of this?

[tiny ether]

Source =
M60T (Squad Armor)
Leopard 2A4 (War Thunder)
Leopard CAF (Squad Armor)

Comparison

Front armour = Similar to Equal
Main gun / Pen = 0m > 800m Pen (Same as CAF Leo) ‘So better or same as Squad Leopard 2A4’
Size = Smaller than Leopard
Speed = Should be similar to same
Commander Station = 50.cal (Leo without Commander Station)
Sight = Modern on the M60T and in no way inferior to the M1A2.

Result

-> The M60T would have an advantage in Squad due to its smaller size and the Commander 50cal. The Leo 2A4 has no visible advantage over the M60T.
The Leo 2A4 would therefore be a disadvantage for the Turks compared to the M60T.

Advantage, the Turks would probably keep their +1 MBT on their units.

-> On some units the M60T could be replaced (e.g. support) if the number of MBTs remains the same.

[burnt turret]

so you need only buff?

dont you think 3 not bad mbt is good for balance?

lets make like mea

2 2A4 1 M60T

armored

1 2A4

normal

[tiny ether]

I think M60T is Medium good MBT and OWI tents to go with 3 MBTs on weeker faction
(MEA, Turks, INS, MIL)

Leo 2A4 is a cool MBT indeed but i realy realy like to Group up with MBTs, especialy with the M60T.
Because T62 (MEA, INS, ...) is meh.

also 2 M60T on regular Units is also realy fun.
Not my part to call it Balance or not. But Regular MBTs like LEO CAF, M1A2 or T-72B3 are stronger. thats why they go with 2 normaly (1 on reg Units)

[burnt turret]

so

why we dont see 2 T-62?

or 2 T-72S?

armored turkey already too good

wheeled logi

[tiny ether]

Dude i dont know, im Not OWI, and that Suggestion was Not about Balance.

So Go ask OWI or make a Suggestion to Nerf Turks.

I think for Most of Community Turks are now in a good state.

[spare plaza]

The Leopard would have superior mobility while lacking the commander RWS. This is not that important, because neither can be used to shoot down drones or scare scouting helis. What would matter is the scope of the Leo. If it gets the garbage gunner sight of the CAF Leo it would be a deal breaker.
TLF has +1 tank because unexperienced armor players which end up relying on armor and not on proper positioning and tactics complain that it is as weak as a T-62, which is nonsense. Turning basically every TLF unit into an armored one with the advantages of the official designations was a unnecessary change and should be reversed, it does not matter with which tank.

[tiny ether]

Generaly if you a good Crew you can also do realy good with T-62 and other tanks.
Just saying i learnd to like the M60T, its a good alrounder, only leeking Armor and speed (But that is not as big of a deal if you know what you do and play them in the team.)

[sly lily]

Ah yea turkey shouldn't have its second most common Frontline MBT because of a possibility they reduce the amount of MBTs they have? They could just do what the MEA does

[near fiber]

I think it's important to have some vehicle variety when it's possible

like mixing up the tanks depending on what unit type you select

[young plume]

Hear me out give the 2A4 for the tank unit only

[burnt turret]

vice versa

1 2a4 for all units

2 2a4 1 m60t for tank unit

[quick parrot]

wouldnt that be a nerf then

turkey is hella weak in armour they need the 2 tanks in some units

[burnt turret]

they still have wheleed logi and good weapons for armored

[cosmic prism]

Honestly I would love to see Leopard 2's for the Armor Focused faction.

[woeful thicket]

guys, leopard 2a4 is worse than what we already have, m60t. This specific topic has been discussed many times.

if you are not happy with the current situation, there are only two options;

either you will replace the m60t's with the m60tm and add a better commander rws system and active protection system to them, (protection against rpg and atgms with a few charges) which is a system owi is trying to develop already for other tanks,

or just add the up-armored leopard 2a4t1 model. It is an existing tank in Turkey's inventory, not a prototype, we don't hear its name because it is new since 2021+ and has not been used in a conflict

leo 2a4t1 and m60tm:

[spare plaza]

Armor is the most irrelevant property of a vehicle in this game, it wont change anything regarding the vic balance to add uparmored variants.

[woeful thicket]

Isn't it easier to penetrate the leopard 2a6 from the front than the m60t in-game?

[spare plaza]

No, but armor does not matter when you face a semi experienced gunner who knows the weak spots.

[woeful thicket]

but M60t is more vulnerable than a leopard 2a6 in all conditions. of course a bad crew will change everything, this doesnt change the fact that m60t is paper comparing to other tanks

[spare plaza]

The armor advantage of other tanks is insignificant. Most AT weapons can pen any tank except at the turret front.

When you come into a situation where you need that armor you will most likely die anyway.

[sly lily]

Nah

[woeful thicket]

which aspect you are disagreeing with?

[quick parrot]

leopard 2 looks cooler

thats why its better

[sly lily]

Just give the Turks a base 2A4

None of this nationalism slop

[woeful thicket]

i didnt say a word about it lmao

base leopard 2a4 is worse than m60t, thats it

they used leopards in syria for the first time but it was unsuccessful, the turrets were tossing literally. Later they used m60t and it was just better

[woeful thicket]

yes it is

[sly lily]

Didn't it toss cause of F-16 airstrikes to prevent capture of them from ISIS/SAA? For the most part the leopards were pretty intact after being knocked out/before being art striked by F-16s.

Also from a lot of combat footage I've watched they seemed to have used both the M60Ts and Leopard 2s, though the M60Ts saw more success due to Turkish crews having much more experience operating M60s than Leopard 2s.

Regardless I don't think it'd be a half bad addition to squad, as it'll have a lower profile and better mobility than the huge and slow M60T

[spare plaza]

They were unsuccessful because the units operating them were badly trained.

[sly lily]

Yeah and we're more used to Operating M60s

Plus the FSA infantry basically disappeared when ISIS engaged them leaving the Leopards with no infantry support

[woeful thicket]

yes, the leopard 2 captured by ISIS was destroyed by a F-16 (turkey), but many leopard 2s were completely destroyed by ATGM and RPG shots. After that, they pulled them from the front lines and put M60Ts instead. M60T is directly more resistant to ATGM and RPGs because it was upgraded-inspired by the Israeli Merkava, it has higher chemical protection. We even call it a mini-merkava sometimes. Despite all of these, all sub-systems such as fire control system and thermals are more modern, because Leopard 2A4 still uses technology from the 80s.

Of course, Leopard 2 is much ahead in terms of mobility. Its engine is more powerful. If we think of game-logic for Squad, of course they can just give it a higher hp and it can work. After all, it is a game. But in real life, M60t is always preferred. Base leopard 2a4 is still a tank from the 80s, untouched. The M60t was upgraded in the 2010s.

[woeful thicket]

lol.

[sly lily]

Okay? I mean stuff like FCS and what not aren't in game and as you said the 2A4 could get a health buff

So there's no reason not to have the 2A4 as a secondary MBT

[spare plaza]

All tanks in the game have the same hp, it would only cause more issues to add a unicorn tank with more hp for no reason.

[quick parrot]

Caf leopard has 1k more turret hp then other tanks

Not the same as hull