surrendering

[keen kettle]

ability to surrender to an enemy (drop gun, hands up), enemy can restrain

if pow redeemed, it gives the enemy team 1-2 tickets and does not lose pow team a ticket

if a pow is killed before he could disappear, enemy loses 2-3 tickets

helps with life preservation, and would be extra cool for servers that have enemy local chat

[long fiber]

Yesssss

[autumn sorrel]

Why not for some events, but i wouldn't activate it in servers... People will always surrender for artillery strikes to make the enemy loose tickets instead of its own. Same for vehicle destroyed, if you know your vehicle will be destroyed, you go behind and surrender, then the vehicle explode and the enemy team loose tickets.

[copper arch]

Nvm, really exploitable indeed.

[foggy walrus]

This might be something for the insurgency rework, but not for the standart gamemodes, because of how it can be exploited.

[keen kettle]

i meant if they are restrained and shot, not if their hands are up

if their hands are up and they got shot, pow team just loses a ticket regularly if they give up

[floral ore]

project reality has this sort of mechanic but it only really works with insurgents and civilians

abusable and un-applicable for any other faction though unfortunately

if anything it should only be a feature on the insurgency gamemode for insurgent factions, but as we all know insurgency never gets picked (lol)

[copper arch]

Surrendering also works after 60 seconds or so, so its not immediately exploitable, but it is indeed only applicable to unconventional factions because in conventional warfare, you send heavy ordnance into a building no matter how bad they want to surrender.

[solar crescent]

iirc any noncombatant is covered under geneva conventions, including surrenders in conventional war. If they aren’t fighting you aren’t supposed to be killing them.

But having surrenders, at least in normal gamemodes, is a terrible idea. Squad is not a milsim and not about the difficulty of identifying legal targets. It’s a shooter.

[autumn sorrel]

Mines shouldn't be used in war because of geneva conventions, however almost any faction has some...
I don't think OWI give a dam to geneva conventions ^^

[solar crescent]

Does no one here understand the conventions? Anti-personnel and certain other types of mines are banned. Anti-tank mines are not.

CCW places limitations on all land mine uses, but they are not banned outright there either.

Their use in game is still not realistic, they can’t and don’t place them unmarked, dug through concrete in the heat of battle to surprise the IFV rolling around. But they are absolutely used in modern military conflict.

Ukraine received some of the US’s M15 mines for use in the war.

[sacred vessel]

This is more arma milsim larp. Squad is too casual for roleplay. You can try and surrender but youre just gonna get killed for tickets, and making penalties for killing surrendered adds too much friction in gameplay

[autumn sorrel]

Finally found it : Article 51 Protocol I of the geneva convention :

Article 51. PROTECTION OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION. l. The civilian pop-
ulation and individual civilians Shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising
from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which
are additional to other applicable rules of international law, Shall be observed in all
circumstances.
2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, Shall not be
the Object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to
spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
3. Civilians Shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for
such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
(a) Those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) Those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a
specific military objective; or
(c) Those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be
limited as required by this Protocol;
and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and
civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

[autumn sorrel]

Didn't said countried do care about these conventions either (IMO no one cares about it)

In theory, we shouldn't use mines, however we still uses them

[autumn sorrel]

I'm not against having the feature avaliable for events or special game modes, but having it in "standard" game modes is not good IMO

[copper arch]

Yes, but people hiding in buildings without visible signs of surrender probably doesnt count. Also throwing your arms in the air when you hear incoming arty or when the first shell hits wont reroute the rest of the 5 minute barrage into a nearby emty field.

[solar crescent]

No, you’re not understanding correctly. Anti-tank mines are allowed to be used, in limited use. Anti-personnel mines are what is specifically and totally prohibited.

They just wouldn’t use them completely unmarked, aggressively, like we do use them in-game.

Countries do care about these conventions, though that’s not to say they don’t break them from time to time.

Rules of Engagement are quite literally the instructions given to troops which have been “translated” from the legalese that is the conventions into something easily digestible and relevant to current operations.

[solar crescent]

Flattening a civilian building with no evidence it contains combatants would in fact be No No Time under the conventions.

Not sure why you brought up the artillery example. I already said I am not in favor of this feature, except in specific gamemodes (eg insurgency), especially because they create such odd exploits.

The conventions don’t expect you to freeze the shells midair if someone surrenders. Shouldn’t expect that in game either tbh. Even in insurgency I think it should only be penalized if it was preventable.

[keen kettle]

i think there is a lot of debate to go on with a surrendering feature, and reasonable concerns for exploitation

i may reopen a new forum with the same idea better plotted out later on

so more people can understand how it works and how it may be hard to exploit

[solar crescent]

I wouldn’t count on it ever being a primary feature. Insurgency is a great spot for it and hopefully OWI can manage a thoughtful implementation of it there. But not in R/AAS, Invasion, etc.

It’s not a feature most want in standard gamemodes. If the marksman in my squad isn’t with me because he is larping i swear to god