TLF new things

[spice hull]

Hello,

Something we need about TLF:

Desert camo for MIDDLE EAST maps,
New vehicles (Altay, Kirpi 2)
New weapon (MPT-55 Service rifle)

Nice additions that can be added with a new unit, it feels like something is missing about TLF

You guys are right, there should be turkish version of leopard instead of altay, altay is not even in service

[dense shadow]

I would like to see the MPT-55 as about 1/4 of all MPTs are actually the 55. So it would make sense for the TLF to get some of them.
But i do not see the use of the Kirpi 2 in game as it would be functionally the same as the Cobra.
The Altay doesnt belong at all in game as turkey has a wopping 2 prototypes of them. The game is set in a ~2013 ish setting and shouldnt have things that are not even close to being in service. Already dislike some of the "modern" introductions.
And their campo is how their camo is

[graceful cloud]

TLF just need a Leo for their armored and a rebalance of their hats

[spice hull]

Desert camo

Our pants are like leggings in game 😞

And you guys are right

At least

There should be turkish version of leopard

Leopard 2A4T1

[final agate]

Fr

Why tandem RPGs bruh. It's like the Devs are just avoiding making TLF a good faction as much as possible. It would be great if they could get 1 kit with RPG tandem and 1 kit with Carl Gustaf.

And ofc leopard 2a4

Altay is too modern and not in service and the kirpi is mostly used within turkey I think

[graceful cloud]

Honestly, they should have their hat limit reduced to one per team, with two for airborne and infantry

Why you ask? Because they get 12 lats, each with two rockets, and their hats carry two rockets that are tandem plus one heat, and even a frag

The carl Gustav hat kit is actually worse carrying only one tandem and one heat, you just get four per team instead

When I said rebalance, I meant Nerf the fuck out of it

You can give the Carl Gustav kits an additional heat to equalize them more with their RPG non-infantry / airborne kits

[ancient raft]

Maybe just add make an atgm carrier/ Leo since VDV also only have rpg tandem, what makes me want to choose vdv is the vehicles.

[final agate]

That's a terrible idea. Hat kits are essential and the TLF kits lack of range aren't at all compensating for their lack of good armour. Having a couple extra lat kits doesn't really mean much. There's no use for a lat kit against a heavily armoured vehicle if there is no hat or vehicle to finish off the tracked/engined vehicle. I don't understand how people can keep asking for TLF to be nerfed every time OWI slightly buffs them. Are y'all playing the game?

I would much rather TLF get normal amount of lats and a decent anti armour capability in the form of better armour and hat kits

[graceful cloud]

Yes, and right now, TLF is one of the strongest factions in half-decent hands
Mechanized: 4 IFVs, 2 MBTs on a 15m timer instead of 20, Helicopter, 2 Super Strong HATs

The M2 PARS3 is 5 tickets, 800 Ammo; the superior stryker
Battle Rifles got buffed

12 LATS, 2 rockets each, 24 rockets

2 Hats, 3 AT rockets each, plus an AP rocket

(2 of which are tandems...)

Homogenization is not the path

[graceful cloud]

Instead they should play into that difference, not slop them together to match other factions

I am fine with HATs, but with a saturation of LATs, having less HATs is the trade(yes I am 100% in favor of them getting the HAT kit, they needed atleast one available)

Single LAT can disable an IFV with 1 round in the right spot, now imagine 12 running around instead of the usual 8

HAT is only required because the proliferation of MBTs as the top vehicle(which should be fixed if they continue on the division testing of replacing MBTs as the pinnacle vehicle for each)

Like CAS being the replacement for MBT for Airborne divisions as an example

[final agate]

Reality is the battle rifles are a disadvantage in most cases and their extra lats are pretty meaningless. Their armour is pretty ass too. The M2 being better than the styrker is meaningless when their tank is so easy to kill.

I get that you don't want everything to be standardised and you enjoy the different styles factions give but you do realise that wpmc pulled that off very well right? They compensate for weak armour with better AT and mobility. Point is that TLF doesn't compensate for anything. It's a worst of all worlds faction really and doesn't hold up well against other conventional factions.

Heat rounds are very much ineffective in compensating for bad armour. Having 2 hat kits is important simply because it means now you can have a hat kit in 2 places. You dont need extra lats they are useless beyond just tracking armour. Sure they do some hp damage but a tank would have to make some seriously bad decisions to die to them. What if the only hat is on defense and your on the attack. Now what?

I don't agree with implementing shitty features for "variety" in the expense of gameplay and balance

[graceful cloud]

You under value LATs significantly

As stated, a SINGLE lat rocket can disable an IFV
you over focus on the MBT threat, which I quickly agreed TLF needed at least a HAT kit for their Standard divisions. OWI is trending away from MBTs being universal as the Apex Vehicle for every division, which lessens this as a problem

[graceful cloud]

the shitty feature was 0 HATs

that was remedied with gusto with these OP HATs + ticket adjustments for TLF vehicles + Battle Rifle buffs

[final agate]

I'm not over focusing on tanks. same thing goes for ifvs. Disabling a vehicle doesn't get you the kill

[graceful cloud]

PARS3 vehicles are on-par with LAVs, and superior against TOW heavy factions(4 40mm smokes instead of 2)

[final agate]

The ifvs are fine, not great but it's whatever. More annoyed at the tank

[final agate]

What's OP?

[graceful cloud]

Standard LAT compositions is 8 LATs, 8 rockets
TLF is 12 LATs 24 rockets

[graceful cloud]

2 Tandems, 1 Heat, and a Frag for non-infantry/airborne divisions
to work in tandem(hue hue) 12 additional anti vehicle infantry, the ability of the HAT to egress to hard targets goes up

[final agate]

That's not necessarily true I think, many factions have varying rockets etc. Plus again, all that really means is that you have to rearm less. Let's be honest your not getting off 10 lats on a Bradley you tracked unless he was clueless

[final agate]

The 2 tandems are very close range and hard to hit with though so they don't compensate for lack of armour imo. It would be better to just give them 1 tandem and a Carl Gustaf for the other hat kit. Not to mention a good squad is probably gonna have a rifleman for a hat to rearm anyway

I guess it's an advantage in that they don't have to rearm as much

[graceful cloud]

typical ambush or engagement of a vehicle with AT teams is 2 LATS, 1 HAT

that is typically 4 rockets, with 3 as the max alpha, with the threat from the LATs removed unless supplemented by Riflemen

TLF can ambush 3 LATs, 1 HAT, with a total of 9 rockets, 2 of which are tandem

[final agate]

Yea but the game isn't about ambushing is it. The point is that extra lats dont compensate for lack of Hat

[graceful cloud]

The threat index stays high for the Vehicle crew for all infantry engaged as the LATs have followup rockets immediately available, the HAT has 2 tandems(enough to kill any non-tank solo), and even a HEAT himself to clean up

[final agate]

Sure in the specific scenario where you use your (only) hat to ambush your idea is great man. But what about playing the objectives

[graceful cloud]

i said or engagement

which includes typical defense/offense

a potential of a squad layout

(which is 2 LATs and a HAT)

The biggest flaw I see in your argument is the consistant downplay of how powerful LATs are

the issue that existed prior was that MBTs are not killable unless from behind by LATs, which is why I agree they needed a HAT kit

[final agate]

I dont downplay it, you and i both say the same thing "a lat can disable a vehicle"

I dont see extra lats compensating for the lack of a hat in a normal engagement

[graceful cloud]

(previous strat to counter being ambushed was keep gun facing backwards and kill anything behind u as that was the only threat)

[graceful cloud]

and a disabled vehicle is even more fucked when those said LATs have a second rocket, and theres 4 more LATs to also account for

[final agate]

This is literally the point. How is a lat going to be effective against a tank that hasn't just overextended? For you to get a kill with the lats, he would need to overextend and not be able to repair for an extended period of time

The problem isn't dealing with lighter Vic's pushing you. The problem is when trying to kill heavy armour who isn't overly stupid with their decisions

[graceful cloud]

which is exclusive to MBT(the only 'heavy armor')

which again, OWI is trending away from being the APEX vehicle for every division(go go CAS instead of MBT for airborne!!! woo)

and Again, I agree'd is why they needed access to HAT kit

they trade anti-heavy for Anti-everything else

It's like vsing IMF/MEI but with better vehicles/guns/optics

[final agate]

Do you not see the problem when you're literally saying TLF is like ImF/mei

[spice hull]

Thats the point

[graceful cloud]

In their CURRENT state

that is the problem

[outer herald]

All for a TLF Leo

[graceful cloud]

not my proposed idea

the current state of TLF is MEI/IMF but better

the appeal of IMF is good AT

[final agate]

And I don't get your point here. The MBT is in the game and so it needs counter. I don't think that anti everything else in return for shit anti heavy armour is at all balanced or meaningful. That's fucking stupid because you can do the "anti everything else" without sacrificing the capability to kill a tank.

[graceful cloud]

the appeal of MEI is every division is logistics division AND good AT

[final agate]

Also you're exaggerating what cas will be. They won't be the apex predator. It's just gonna force tanks to play with inf more imo

[final agate]

Amen

[graceful cloud]

which is a great meta changer if u get Airborne VS Armored

[final agate]

Sure, I don't see the relevance here to the topic tho

[graceful cloud]

all for this x10, Armored should get Leo+2 M60

[outer herald]

The TLF RWS pars should jot require crewmen at all. This low stakes APC claim gives it a lot of value to SLS who need armored transpos that don't want to commit to.armor and lose important inf roles

[graceful cloud]

that would require other like vehicles getting similar treatment(m2 Stryker)

[outer herald]

No

It's for balance

Tlf bad

Give them diff tactical.options

Pars earker than strkyer anyways

Weaker

Diff factions gwt diff tactical.oprions

[final agate]

Or just make them a normal conventional factions 😭🙏

[outer herald]

Options

OWI refuses to make turkey good

I'm giving OWI a goofy AHH option bc OWI is run by a bunch of goofy AHHH people.

[final agate]

so so so true

[outer herald]

I will say they added hat to some turkey factions, and the overall sway reduction and recoil reduction makes them better.

The MEA AK update was needed

So I can't talk too.much shit

[final agate]

They all have hat now but its lacking in range is all

[outer herald]

Take what we can get

[final agate]

Which does not pair well with bad armour

[final agate]

For sure

[outer herald]

I like the Chinese zsl

[final agate]

Better than nothing and tlf seem to do somewhat better now

[outer herald]

It's good transport in a pinch and doesn't sacrifice roles for crewman

A good Open top RWS might be a good addition

[final agate]

You mean open top APC?

[outer herald]

I think they should shift from realistic armor load outs to a more balance oriented mindset

Yes

[graceful cloud]

PARS III M2 is superior to the Styker M2 RWS....

[outer herald]

They're good

[outer herald]

WhyM

[graceful cloud]

Greater Ammo Capacity, better optics, only 5 tickets

[outer herald]

Hmmm

Well

That's good for turkey

Has less armor no?

Turkish invasion is good when it's 3 25 mils and all rws 5 ticket pics

Vics

[graceful cloud]

Similar armor profile, but less HP

[outer herald]

It turns the infantry mechanized really easy

The tracked APCS hurt every faction they're in

They need to be wheeled

It would make armor inf combos work well

[graceful cloud]

turkey atm is a top pick from being a no pick with them adding HATs and keeping the LAT buff they shipped with

[graceful cloud]

every division of turkey has 2 HAT kits, and they are OP kits to boot for the faction they belong to

[outer herald]

Do they still get three lats?

Oh shit

Yea that makes sense

I got my asshole widened on gorodock in an abrams by 2 Turkish hats and at least 4 lats

Maybe five

[final agate]

the hat kits aren't "op"

They should get rid of the extra lats

They should give them better armour and better hats

And tlf isn't a top pick Idk what Ur on about

[graceful cloud]

Standard HAT kits are 1 tandem, 1 HEAT
TLF get an extra tandem and frag...

Even if they remove the extra 4 LATs(a faction unique feature for Turkey which would further homogenize factions rather than diversify), they still have twice the amount standard LATs have for munition

Refer to point #1, they already have OP HATs for their faction layout. As for armor, I'd vote for buffing the Reload speed of M60 to match Abrams(both are manual loader systems) and define it as a Medium tank(slightly more buff than a TD like Sprut/MGS) like the T62 should be set as, and the ACV just needs the additive armor found IRL to help with LAT protection

[graceful cloud]

TLF Mechanized is a massively strong pick with 4 IFV opener, 2 tanks, and a heli, along with the Mortar carriers

TLF Motorized is a great counter pick with all RWS vehicles

[final agate]

I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this diversity thing. Making the hat kit same as other factions works just fine. We don't need this quirky system where 1 hat has to do the work of 2 and is compensated by a bunch of useless extra lat that realistically won't be utilised. Ill be honest with you, I don't give a shit about TLF being diverse. Mei, Imf, wpmc, those are the diverse factions. You acknowledge that TLF ( a conventional factions) is like mei and imf and acknowledge that's a problem but your solution is "remove 1 hat from them"

What are you even on about?

1 tandem RPG, 1 Carl Gustaf tandem, boom, problem fixed

[graceful cloud]

there it is again "useless extra LAT"

[final agate]

I hope you realise that you went from making a statement presented as fact: "tlf are top pick"

To then simply staring your opinion about game meta: "mechanised is a good pick"

Not the same is it now

[graceful cloud]

TLF on 7th servers went from Troll Pick to Value Pick, u can see the rise in their play times on server and stat trackers since the 2nd of dec

[final agate]

Yes, as I explained it's not going to make up for 1 hat having to do the job of 2. Sure its gonna maybe help with some light Vic pushes... Great

[graceful cloud]

and medium vic(IFVs)

[final agate]

Not rlly

[graceful cloud]

1 LAT=disabled IFV=no IFV engaging your forces

[final agate]

Ah yes, because a disabled ifv can't shoot

Very true

And totally cannot be recovered unless a hat or Vic finishes them off

[graceful cloud]

hit the turret, bam, cant shoot, hit a track, immobilized for 3x the # of rockets to rain on it

Solo LAT out in the field? most factions he cant only immobilize it, TLF? Immobilize and disable

cause they get 2 rockets

you forget

every time

[final agate]

Your suggestion is: simply don't kill the Vic and make it immobile and not able to turn.

Ok I hope you realise that if the vehicle isn't dumb he's gonna have inf support

At the end of the day you gotta kill him lol

[graceful cloud]

standard faction(which TLF is pretty much) get EIGHT rockets

TLF get TWENTY FOUR

that is 3x the # of rockets in playh

and these rockets dont do less dmg than the 8 other factions get

[final agate]

Alr bro

[graceful cloud]

they dont have less pen

they are the same ones

[final agate]

Ah yes, relevant

Totally not besides the point at all

[graceful cloud]

So, how many LATs does it take to kill a standard IFV?

[final agate]

Look dude, i get that you want diversity and allat but ur solution ain't justifying it. Game balance first

If you really want diversity why don't you just ask for the Brits to be diverse or something, I don't get the fixation on wanting tlf "diverse" at the expense of gameplay. Its already diverse in its kits and what not

[graceful cloud]

there is game balance, it's overtuned rn

12 LATs with double ammo were given to compensate for no HAT
a failed experiment, you need atleast 1 HAT to deal with MBTs
so they add two hats, and for good measure, give them two tandems

[final agate]

Whatever you say

[graceful cloud]

and for good measure, the same patch as that, we fix their battle rifles to not be unwieldly

a standard faction fields 10+2 rockets
TLF fields 26+4

[final agate]

Thankfully a standard faction has better rifles and better anti tank capability at range + better armour 🙏

[graceful cloud]

MEI fields 17+3, and give up IFVs and MBTs

TLF don't have that drawback

[graceful cloud]

TLF rifles are now on-par with the Battle Rifle fix, and most Russian AT is carbon copy(psst, they're a standard faction!)

[final agate]

They do have worse armour and don't make up for it with AT. My solution is simple enough: a conventional faction that is actually conventional

[final agate]

Is it tho coz last time I checked Russia doesn't get only rpg7 tandems and have a t90.

The rifles aren't on par. They are still slightly harder to use and have less ammo in the mag

[graceful cloud]

RGF get 1 "ranged" tandem and 1 "unranged" RPG tandem

[graceful cloud]

and hit harder

and supress heavier

[final agate]

They get rpg28 on the second kit

That has range

[graceful cloud]

TLF's tracked vehicles are their weakness, and I agree i think the ACV needs some HP love, atleast to 1500

[graceful cloud]

that is the "ranged" one im mentioning

[final agate]

Which is mostly useless in most engagements 🙏. If I get sight picture and follow up shot first on you your "harder hitting and more suppressive rifle" ain't gonna do shit. It's simply a disadvantage

[final agate]

Okay so you're not refuting my point at all youre just proving my point?

I'm literally saying I'd much rather that be the same for TLF lol

[graceful cloud]

U are valuing range over damage that TLF get

TLF trade a ranged tandem for a 2nd shorter range tandem(which is still effectively aimable at 200-300m)

[final agate]

Yes absolutely i am because the damage isn't that much more specifically if your suggestion of removing a hat was implemented. Also because of TLF armour not being good enough to engage enemy armour at range

Hope this helps

[final agate]

With the scope I know how to but idk about irons man. Plus the drop being very high leaves very little margin for error even at closer ranges

Not to mention the flight time

Not gonna claim tlf is unplayable but it's just odd that a conventional faction has so many quirks you have to play around. It's simply a disadvantage at the end you have to play around

[graceful cloud]

irons are easier if u know to press X 😄

[final agate]

They sight up to 150 lol

[graceful cloud]

and without loss of sight profile, u can aim at 250

[final agate]

Meanwhile other hats: 300-400

Hope this helps

Again reminding that I mentioned 2 other handicaps as well

[graceful cloud]

most engage within 250

which is shy of a grid square

now, the range works for cheeky mobile hits, but why risk tandems on that when you immobilize it first with your HEAT

[graceful cloud]

Option B is nerf the OP HAT(that u state isnt OP) and u keep the 2/4 HAT system

[final agate]

2/4 ?

[graceful cloud]

2 hat standard, 4 hat airborne

[final agate]

Yea that's my suggestion lol

From thw beginning

[graceful cloud]

u said they arent OP, I said nerf them or remove 1

either they stay super strong rn, and u lean into the Extra LAT, loss of HAT style

[final agate]

They still aren't necessarily OP but it's definitely unfair to have that if armour and AT is otherwise brought up to par with other conventional factions

I told you already I'm fine with hat being 1 tandem and 1 Carl Gustaf

[graceful cloud]

AT is already beyond PAR

[final agate]

I explained above why its not. Hope that helps

[graceful cloud]

the TRACKED vehicles suck, i wont defend them 😛

[graceful cloud]

Beyond PAR because they also get 3x the # of HEAT rockets per team, this isnt just a HAT OP, the team's AT potential is OP in conjuction

if they were homogenized and standardized to 8 lats, 8 lat rockets, and then u give the hats 2 tandems; meh that's on par, trade range for DPS potential balance

[final agate]

You seem to think a large quantity of shit AT makes the faction beyond par to quality at and vics

[graceful cloud]

cause RPG-7 Tandem isnt bad, and for TLF, u trade range for an extra one

and LAT rockets arent shit

[final agate]

It would be more believable if you at least argued they are on par

[graceful cloud]

LATs are scarier than HATs to tanks cause they immobilize and disable.

[final agate]

Lol

[graceful cloud]

I only fear HATs after i've been LAT'd

cause there's only 2 HATs i have to deal with, but i have 8 LATs i have to be spaced from

(that # jumps to 12 with TLF)

and they get twice the opprotunity to disable

[graceful cloud]

it's a quantity fear, yes I understand HATs are what kill, but they typically cannot kill a non-immobile tank with only 1 tandem for dmg

[teal tiger]

id honestly be down if the pars 3 series of vehicles got removed and were replaced by turkish mraps and atgm carriers instead, afaik and it has been mentioned in previous posts about the TLF, the PARS 3 isnt really in widespread use in the turkish military irl, making their inclusion in game somewhat similar to the ctas

[spice hull]

@late salmon you asked me before now im asking you, why 👎 ?

[dim flint]

TLF could use some Vehicles and a 5.56 weapon

[late salmon]

Miss click sorry