#Can you please change suppression back to a tunnel vision and not blindness.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

torn tide
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I'm don't understand the change from having the tunnel vision be turned into blindness when suppressed? When bullets are flying I SHOULD NOT BE GOING BLIND! These bullets act like they giving my eyes cataracts. It make the playing the game unplayable sometimes because how it just blinds the player making them completely useless in a fight and you can't even fight back if you tried because on top of the blindness you got the horrible sway added. Suppression by vehicles is the worst of it because not only can not shoot a rocket because of sway but you can't even see your target. Making it a tunnel vision that way we can some what see where we are and what is around us.

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torn tide
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I mean, why did they change it?

woven lagoon
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Before, they were kinda just a full auto marksmen with less range

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Now they can be more suppressive

torn tide
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And I understand that and I not asking for the them to change (controlling them is a different story) , but right now fully blinding the player is not good gameplay or even realistic. A tunnel effect would be a better idea.

Like this this but have it not spin, but SLIGHT blur and have the outer edge of the screen darken.

9k.png
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That way you at least know what you are looking at and can somewhat understand what to do.

formal agate
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that was you can shoot the enemy accurately, which is the point of suppression in game. Even fully supressed i know where to move and wait for it to end, except if im rushing something and arty lands near that instantly makes me go blind, and thats ok as well

polar badger
torn tide
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Bullets flying by or landing by should not blind the player as if they were flashbanged.

formal agate
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The same way medic touches you for 5 seconds and you are alive.

polar badger
torn tide
sharp jetty
# torn tide Please tell me you not serious right? You telling me that if I was in combat and...

It's a gamification of a real world concept since the intended stimuli and response don't translate. Irl a solider will not peak into an angle that is actively being shot at since he will care if he gets shot and dies. In game people are much more likely to be willing to peak into an area of suppression and shot back. OWI made the choice to make bullet apply blurriness so that people under suppression become combat ineffective at range so people don't peak the mg to mimic the real world effect that soldiers don't peak for fear of dieing

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OWI wanted mgs to have a place in the game as a tool for suppression but it wasn't working since people don't have the same fear for their life thus they made suppression an active effect you can't ignore

torn tide
formal agate
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Nah, any type of useable vision just grants the rambo hero the ability to shoot back and deal out sick headhots. As it was said before - if you complain about it, its doing its job perfectly.

torn tide
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You forgot the horrible sway it adds too making it nigh impossible to fight back even if you could see anyways, this is mainly just so you can some what see what in front of you.

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hence the name tunnel vision, see what in front and not what is around you.

formal agate
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But the issue is not what is around you, you want to kill that guy thats shooting you and tunnel vision still allows that, hence making supression useless.

nocturne compass
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Forgetting the fact that looking through magnified optics removes suppression effect !

formal agate
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Well, thats tunnel vission for you 😄

cedar nimbus
# torn tide You forgot the horrible sway it adds too making it nigh impossible to fight back...

The idea is that you don't "fight back through the sway".

To take your own example; a vehicle suppressing an AT and therefore preventing thag AT from taking a pop/snap shot while they're being suppressed is in fact the suppression system working well and as intended. A vehicle suppressing your position isn't, and shouldn't, be an invitation that get into some sort of aim/gun duel with that vehicle.

This is one of the harder things to grasp; that any one single player is never going to be able to be effective in all situations, whether it be due to their kit, or due to them being shut down through suppression.

fierce cloud
amber sage
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shoot back until it stops, works both ways

carmine ridge
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The problem with tunnel vision as a suppression effect is that it's useless. It doesn't actually impede an experienced player.

So you will need to think of a better suggestion to replace the blurring which does impede the player.

iron steppe
# carmine ridge The problem with tunnel vision as a suppression effect is that it's useless. It ...

Incorrect statement, it's a matter of implementation and what the supplementing systems tied to it are. Suppression can be achieved without completely blocking vision. Blur was the rout decided to take for suppression, due to ease of implementation and being able to scale much easier based on varying weapon types. But some aspects of it aren't exactly working correctly, as the blur is supposed to be more DOF based, rather than a blur blanket across the screen. UE4.27 kind of screwed DOF a lot.

carmine ridge
iron steppe
carmine ridge
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It's a matter of implementation

What implementation of tunnel vision will impede players ability to return fire?

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The fact is, tunnel vision doesn't stop the player from seeing what he is looking at. As long as that is the case, it will not impede experienced players that simply disregard the loss of some peripherial vision.

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I see the argument that tunnel vision combined with other debuffs or effects could sufficiently impede players to make suppression a useful mechanic.

But tunnel vision alone is useless as a suppression mechanic.

honest meadow
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It was proven that tunnel vision doesn't work and makes suppression completely ineffective

iron steppe
# carmine ridge > It's a matter of implementation What implementation of tunnel vision will imp...

I'm not talking specifically about just tunnel vision alone, hence mentioning supplementing systems. Like right now suppression is a mix of multiple effects that scale based on volume of fire, accuracy of volume of fire and weapon type;

Visual

  • DOF blur(albeit a bit broken currently)
  • Vignette & chromatic aberration/fringe
  • Minor fish eye effect
  • Color desaturation
  • Screen dirt / flaring

Physical

  • Bullet flyby/impact induced sway
  • Bullet flyby/impact induced flinching
    Note : Which is further supplementing by stamina and movement induced sway from weapon destabilization.

People overly focus on visual impairment to why suppression works, which isn't exactly why it works - Which is due to a mix of lack of understanding of the overall suppression system and the blur being the thing you first see. The physical effects(supplementing systems) is what causes people to be ineffective at return fire. The blur just slows down the initial response, the physical effects is what throws off that response.

Blur without physical effects = Still shoot through blur
Tunnel vision without physical effects = Still shoot through tunnel vision
Physical effects without either blur or tunnel vision = difficult to shoot through
Blur or tunnel vision with physical effects = very difficult to shoot through

Squads old suppression was ineffective in a lot of cases, because both the visual & physical aspects were quite tame in implementation and lacked additional mechanical depth.

carmine ridge
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I would say it's a majority of the effect

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In my experience from many different games that have attempted to implement suppression effects. The only ones that have the desired effect of making someone combat ineffective when suppressed, obstruct vision.

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Anything less, experienced players will learn to fight through.

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So if blur is removed, we will see the return of players being able to peak and play chicken with people actively shooting at them. Which is behavior the devs have explicitly said they want to discourage.

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Of course you could tune up weapon sway and inaccuracy during suppression. But savy players will figure out how to compensate for it, or it will have to be so overtuned that we will see nonstop "GET RID OF NOODLE ARMS" complaining.

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I'm all ears for a solution that addresses this issue though, other than a hand wave "it's all in the implementation".

iron steppe
# carmine ridge > People overly focus on visual impairment to why suppression works, which isn't...

Blur is the main visual aspect of suppression, but not the main aspect to suppression. Most people utilize optics in this game, which suppression blur is not present while in ADS, only in the peripheral. It's the physical aspects of suppression that does most of the heavy lifting.

Any experienced player using irons or red dot already shoots through the blur at close to medium distances, because you can still see the enemy through the blur. It's the physical effects which extend the engagement, not the blur. The blur only aids in long distance engagements, due to a tiny blurry blob, but again it's mainly the sway and flinch extending that engagement. Here's some footage of me doing exactly what I'm talking about.

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The idea behind the ICO suppression, isn't to make people combat ineffective, but to influence more authentic behaviour such as taking cover, displacing or returning fire to reestablish initiative - rather than spinning 180 and 1 tapping the person shooting at you, or instant repeaking and 1 tapping the person in the head.

A lot of people praised Project Realities(Squads granddaddy) suppression, which was an aggressive form of tunnel vision. Wasn't useless by any means, albeit it was made effective due to deviation(since the engine restrictions prevent implementation of sway and flinching)

I myself created a suppression system(but broke it when tweaking things and then it further broke with a build update). But here's some stills I took.

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The suppression system I mad had;

  • Progressive Iris blur that feathers inwards
  • Progressive Vignette that darkens edges(was planning to add a pulsing element too)
  • Progressive Pinch distortion in the center of the screen.
  • Progressive screen dirt/flares(which current suppression has)

The design behind the suppression, takes advantage of some brain trickery. The Iris Blur and Vignette forces the brain/eyes to focus inwards to the center of the screen, while impairing peripheral view and the end result reducing situational awareness. The added element is, unlike in Live Squad, my design is based on there being no blur when in ADS using an optic. Instead the blur only appears when being suppressed(both irons & optics), so you lose your peripheral view when being shot at. Also emulates shooting with both eyes open too, as an added plus.

The pinching distortion effect is only present in the center of the screen, which alters depth perception making targets further away appear smaller(Is present in both ADS and non-ADS). It's more difficult to track and snap to targets as it not only throws off depth perception, but muscle memory too. Which is made even more difficult with the sway and flinching induced by bullet fly bys. Ultimately makes engaging at mid to long ranges more difficult.

The screen dirt/flare adds a little more impairment to peripheral vision.

The main advantages to this is;

  • Reduces eye strain by giving a proper focus point on your screen.
  • CQB distance engagements become less frustrating and more lethal(Like it should), while also reduced the chance a blind blue berry, accidentally puts a bullet in the back of your head.
  • A more authentic representation of suppression.
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There's your further explanation, rather than it's all in the implementation

fierce cloud
# iron steppe

It looks almost perfect
So guys check how people playing supermod, and you understand that if everyone have normal recoil and sway you will be scared of being shot
And it's forcing you to move from cover to cover by yourself. You don't playing like that - you dying a lot. So or you learning how to move or you dying always.

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And they have old black vignette that works good, you can barely see your scope at max suppression

polar badger
fierce cloud
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I don't understand why all of you defending this blurry shit, we have physically working system that provides effective suppression

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You unable to fight back when somebody shooting at your direction
And VFX don't make it harder

kind bridge
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I would prefer the blurry vision when something explodes near you or a tank/ifv cannons shoot near you too

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And tunnel vision for boolets

fierce cloud
kind bridge
formal agate
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DoF inducing blur would be the best yes, (maybe UE5) , so its like damage direction markers, like how brothers in arms hells highway does it. Or maybe a mechanical push opposide the direction the bullets asre flying, so your mous gets dragged down for every bullet that passes over, and you have to fight the fake instinct from the game.. Like irl, you can get used to it and overcome the flinch to some extent.