Add a distance limit to AGL projectiles

[hazy cipher]

People in CIS community started using the CrosshairX custom sight for AGL vics to indirectly shoot 4400m out, dropping 100+ kills from repair stations. It doesn't feel fair and intendend, as a lot of projectiles in this game have a hard distance limit (like HAT rockets dissapearing). Some server admins don't want to ban the usage of it, as their opinion on it is "its simular enough to mortar cals and squadlanes so we won't ban it". ik it sounds like a server problem, but an ingame solution would be the best in this case, and it's not like it is a really high effort one.

[elder umbra]

Nuh uh. Shits fun. Just wait when we get the AGS-17

[hazy cipher]

feels great being on the receiving end of that

totally not unbalanced or anything

[steady badge]

That's true. Please, fix it !

[elder umbra]

It’s used IRL aswell

Or add a range limit of 2.5km

[hazy cipher]

1.5km feels a bit more fair, but i still kinda feel that the AGL shooting sound will need to be heard from a longer distance or smth

simular to mortars

[hazy cipher]

pretty balanced, ain't it?

[acoustic grove]

That is a little ridiculous..

[hazy cipher]

We've also found some videos of Zis-3 shooting out 3km, but i can't post any links here

[rose willow]

Keep it ingame. Thats so fun to do and the zis isnt stronger than a mortar

[crude prairie]

https://discordapp.com/channels/91294111071469568/417733337071747072/1126930047543017572

Go to the Rules-and-roles channel in the discord and get access to link posting

[hazy cipher]

https://youtu.be/-gLsfTjLJU8

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1287741116497657937/1303837349544857732/Squad_2024.10.16_-_23.44.22.06.mp4?ex=672ddd68&is=672c8be8&hm=6f94b40f1cc6a723dff9ab24df5578a647fa21a5ae794c522609a8de99daac0b&

some examples

[elder umbra]

Epik

Did it aswell but without a custom reticle

It’s amazing

[crude prairie]

Yea its the usual g+y players that cant win a stand up fight in game and need to use external help like calculators

Like CrosshairX should just be considered a cheat as its also allows you to have crosshairs in game where you shouldnt have crosshairs

Although some monitors comes with crosshair built in as a toggable option so its almost impossible to enforce

[ocean ocean]

Honestly the Zis-3 isn't the issue. There's no reason it shouldn't be able to be used for direct and indirect fire. It has HEAT, frag, and smoke shells.

The issue is abusing AGLs like seen above

[thick fossil]

Yeah maybe it should explode after like 800m

or just reduce accuracy

[jaunty kraken]

wait until you hear about a little thing called indirect fire with mortars

[crude prairie]

And the game gives you all the tools needed to do so, its just pure lack of skill when people need a fucking out of game calculator to do it

[jaunty kraken]

honestly it sounds like a problem on your part, as just like the grad, the ub32 techi, and the mortar vics, you just need to go over and kill them. if you or your team is not coordinated enough to do that, then you didn't stand a chance in the first place, and the skill issue is on your side. Using the tools available to you (hacking exempted) to gain an advantage is fair game. or are you saying we should also ban all mortar calculators? and god forbid someone does a bit of math with a heightmap to calculate the impact point of a mortar!

[crude prairie]

I have no problem with mortar in the game and I have no problem with having to hunt them

Its not a tool available IN-GAME its an external out of game "tool", but i guess wallhacks are also ok after all its an available tool both give you and advantage and both are not part of the game only difference is one is an .exe running in the background and is detectable by anticheat the other is a html site and undetectable unless you start IP tracing which isnt leagal in most of the world

[jaunty kraken]

but i guess wallhacks are also ok then

did you miss the part where I said "hacking exempted"

[crude prairie]

Both are external tools not meant to be part of the game guess macros also dont count as cheating then as they arent hacking

[jaunty kraken]

that is the single wildest conclusion I have ever seen someone come to

nope, I don't know a single server than bans for macros

I don't even know how macros would help in squad

[crude prairie]

Fact is your using an external program to influence the game wether its an .exe or html site is irrelevant if it was meant to be used id be in game. And the fact that people need an external tool wether it be CrosshairX, built in crosshairs or mortar calculator is irrelevant it gives you an unfair advantage players not using external tools dont have and that is cheating

And it is a fucking skill issue if you need a separate tool externally of the game to play

[cobalt orbit]

Although it looks pretty fuarked, at the end of the day. They're focusing on long range fire, and a quick scout with an MRAP would properly end them. Then you get to claim their vehicle and the radio.

[hazy cipher]

counterpoint: devs added a mortar carrier, a 1000hp vic that you can get shot out of, that fired 120mm OP shells 4km out. They nerfed that shit literally the next patch

here we've got a 2000hp RWS vic that can fire 4400m+ out and has arguably more firepower that a mortar carrier against inf

[jaunty kraken]

while this is a fair point, we do need to remember that we are comparing an agl, against the airburst mortars. and the majority of the nerf was reducing the kill range at the impact point.

[hazy cipher]

had a guy completely shut down our 3 squad push on the point because he got intel on our push direction and just sprayed 3 belts of 40mm our direction

40+ kills in like 5 minutes

[cobalt orbit]

Plus, whether this counts as cheating will be a guaranteed shitshow. A friend of mine developed something really similar to this and it was very divisive whether it was cheating.

[hazy cipher]

they cut the distance from 3600-4000m or smth to 2km max

yeah there was a damage nerf but its not that important IMO

the 120mm is also pretty audible in the distance, not that hard to find

[hazy cipher]

that why im creating this thread, i want a game solution

we also cant find an agreement if it is considered cheating

[cobalt orbit]

A real solution would be to get EAC to mark CrosshairX as a cheat.

[hazy cipher]

we also cant just ban everyone who fires further than 1km or smth because we had people that literally screenshotted their lineups like in CS so they can indirectly shoot the AGL in default hab spots

without crosshair overlays or anything

[sacred rock]

I use it make my squad.

[cobalt orbit]

But the downside is that there are some pretty easy work-arounds, but that should stop 'the common player' from abusing it.

[crude prairie]

Issue is some monitors have built in crosshair and there is no way to detect it

[cobalt orbit]

Built-in monitor crosshairs are not the issue though, but a good point

CrossairX is program that runs on the OS, not the monitor itself.

[hazy cipher]

at the end of the day you can draw a crosshair with a marker on your monitor

[crude prairie]

They do give an advantage for point shooting

[cobalt orbit]

See above OP comment.

[crude prairie]

Like in CS XD

[cobalt orbit]

Anyways

Unrelated

[jaunty kraken]

man, you really like to claim your "ENGLISH INF MIC" squads

oh actually I see a bmp-2 squad as well, you may have a point

[sacred rock]

I do actually change the name for vic claims

I just know the faction and switch AHK to that.

[hazy cipher]

you can just make the script so it spams arrow up + enter and pretype the command ..?

[sacred rock]

tilde
But yes.

The advantage is that you can execute console commands while loading into a new match during the running man animation.
That's how people make their heli/tank squads so fast.

[neon ocean]

Okay so I tried this crosshair x trick. And here is my result of testing and thought on it. The Vics I'm using is the m1117, pars AGL and AAVP
Pros:

• absurd range the longest confirmed kill for me is 3100m (AAVP on yeho)
• high lethality against infantry
• large quantities of explosive on AGL

Cons:

• small kill radius, Area of effects is rectangular 2-8m width x 2-15m length.
• the low arc makes the payload doesn't do direct landing on top like mortar, more like ub32 or grad so terrain, trees and building can block easily.
• long rearm time.

• absolutely need clear, wide, flat area to be effective, trees can block it.

[neon ocean]

• none to low destruction capability

[neon ocean]

All in all, it's funny to do and frustrating for the enemy but with right coordination shit can be lethal, my highest kill count with this method is 42 down/29 kills but average of 10-20kills for me which is slightly lower than my mortar game. I don't think this warrant any immediate action against and crossairx itself isn't really that useful for squad due to how game work (due to how game work).

[hazy cipher]

in my experience they have a much higher ceiling for kill counts. with good info and a cmd drone you can get double of your usual mortar kills, thats my experience though.

[hazy cipher]

rearm time can be mitigated by just sitting on a rep station. it eats ammo super fast, but it can be managable if you have the FOB not far away from main. almost non stop HE rain on the enemy 4km out.

[quartz nacelle]

A few examples of this are enshrined in this thread, this is my stuff, and there the player made over 50 kills in Raas mode

[hushed gyro]

4.4km out? Damn that's insane wp on there part cause the MOA has gotta be crazy at that range.

[hazy cipher]

50m radius or smth, not that bad

[hushed gyro]

where's that sharkman nerd when you need him with the turbo math

[sacred rock]

the spread should be a lot more than 50m at 4.4km.

I think they made it 35 MOA or something.

no wait that is right

[shut marten]

i mean if a mortar calculator as accurate as squad-calc exists then why should we ban custom crosshair (i am coping)

i mean i use it for thanks tho not agls

there's no pay to win aspect and its self made, i just use it on ifvs and tank because, well squad optics aren't really accurate

soon mortar calculators will even get vehicles for indirect fire smh

[hushed gyro]

First time getting spammed by indirect fire eh? Its k youll get used to it. Indirect fire gets more useful the more clumped your team gets
Work on a good combat spread to negate those mortars king

[honest elk]

or implement crosshairs and calculators in game, coz people will continiue using 3rd party soft. In that case it will be nice to see in game

[shut marten]

i mean we finally got a use for agls 🙏

[limpid forge]

In my humble opinion, the best fix they can do is adding projectile random spread after it (projectile) travels 1500m. With this addition the agl wouldn’t be as accurate which is why it will have poor performance on huge distances. This will be pretty realistic whilst being pretty easy to implement (I think, but I don’t know shit about game development).

[sacred rock]

It already has poor accuracy at long distances (~35 inch dispersion every ~90m)
The issue is that the gunner isn't, and doesn't need to, pick out precise targets to get kills. Absent some mechanism to shift the beaten zone off its target the problem will still be there. So absent some truly extreme MOA on the weapon itself, they'll still be able to do it.

[limpid forge]

No. If you full send it then yea there is dispersion because of recoil and the gun moving vertically and a little bit horizontally. If you shoot single shots it will always land in the same spot.

I believe that most projectiles have fixed ballistics (except atgm’s) but I haven’t tested all of them

[hushed gyro]

Lol what thats absurd every weapon has an moa that makes it inaccurate youre not getting an AGL to hit the same spot at 4km

[sacred rock]

What?
The Mk19, in-game, has 35 MOA right now. That means at 4km the rounds are impacting in a 50m radius of their aim point.

[plain fog]

Блять, понабежало русскоязычное комьюнити и пиздят друг с другом через переводчик. Кароче в кратце, есть одна часть людей, которые бомбят от того, что есть скиловые люди, умеющие стрелять с мк-19 навесом(неважно как, линейка, программная калькулятор, рисунок на экране или просто понимание по балистику оружия и различным подсказкам по различным деталям на оружии). А я вам напомню что на мк-19 станционарный уже присутствует планка(хоть и не подвижна) но по ней вполне можно приноравиться стрелять даже без изменений пристрелки орудия. А есть другая сторона, которая готова использовать механику игры, ради того, чтобы была какая то артиллерия. Почему вы не запретите squadcalc в таком случае ребята 😂, он выполняет ту же задачу только на много эффективнее. У вас двойные стандарты ребята. Что то, что другое делает одну и ту же задачу, по одной и той же методике. Попробуй научиться стрелять с миномёта в точности до метра и учитывать перепад высот при этом, + ещё самостоятельно делать расчет дистанции по линеечке. Мне кажется как минимум будет погрешность 10-5 метров(а не 2-3 метра от сквад Калка, так как ты просто не всегда можешь точно определить местоположение миномёта). Ребят есть такая штука ub-32, таких можно ставить по карте, пока место не кончится на фобы на карте. Они поливают огромную площадь. Самое интересное они делают обсалютно тоже самое что и мк-19. Да дальность меньше, то 2000+ метров, это конечно вам совсем другое.

Просто вы готовы банить игроков за скилл, что они придумали новую мету, даже не программу

Вы не станете ведь банить минометчиков, за то что они будут использовать линейку с реальной жизни и калькулятор, для расчет дистанции. Тут тоже самое, есть калькулятор и методика линейкой

[cobalt orbit]

Speak English

[honest elk]

use Google translate bro

the Russian-speaking community has been watching and fucking with each other through a translator. Anyway, in short, there is one part of the people who bomb from the fact that there are skilled people who can shoot with a mk-19 canopy (it doesn't matter how, a ruler, a software calculator, a drawing on the screen, or just an understanding of the balistics of weapons and various tips on various details on weapons). And I remind you that the mk-19 stationarny already has a bar (although it is not movable), but it is quite possible to get used to shooting at it even without changing the gun's targeting. And there is another side that is ready to use the mechanics of the game in order to have some kind of artillery. Why don't you ban squadcalc in this case guys, it performs the same task only much more efficiently. You guys have double standards. Something that does the same task using the same methodology. Try to learn how to shoot a mortar with accuracy up to a meter and take into account the height difference at the same time, + also independently calculate the distance according to the ruler. It seems to me that at least there will be an error of 10-5 meters (and not 2-3 meters from the square, since you just can't always accurately determine the location of the mortar). Guys, there's a ub-32 thing, you can put them on the map until the place ends on the fobs on the map. They water a huge area. The most interesting thing is that they do exactly the same thing as the mk-19. Yes, the range is less than 2000 + meters, of course, this is completely different for you.

[honest elk]

translate without edit

[cobalt orbit]

Its a rule of the Discord, and google translate gets things wrong somewhat often. I'd rather rely on a good attempt of a person's original intent rather than what Google translate thinks.

[honest elk]

i used a better translator than Google, so it should be understandable for you

[sacred rock]

I don't actually know what or who is being referred to.

[honest elk]

Thing is there are many disputes in Russian speaking community in recent time about using ags's and mk19 w overlay scope as a mortar like irl. So some admins and server owners think that this is a cheat and some players refer to the fact that many players use squadmaps and squadmortar to play. This is a brief description of the discussion

[plain fog]

it doesn't have to be an overlay. it can be a regular ruler attached to the screen. you can use a regular calculator for engineers to get the necessary values on the ruler and shoot at it. absolutely no programs

I apologize for writing in Russian in your community, but I am not good at English

the point is that a site can be created for mortars, but everyone is angry about the mk-19

[honest elk]

тут больше суть в использовании агса как мортир, а каким способом уже не важно. Надо либо внедрять инструмент для этого в игру (дать зероинг стационарным агсам и сетку в агсы на технике), либо убрать такой функционал, например, уничтожением снарядов агса на дистанции больше, чем прицельная сетка.

[plain fog]

Я не имею ничего против на то, чтобы сделать снаряд более реалистичным по дальности стрельбы, но пока можно так стрелять навесом, то почему это надо сразу запрещать на серверах администрации

[honest elk]

я бы создал новый тред на твоём месте с полным описанием проблемы, естественно на английском. Потому что тут тема поста все же чуть другая и он утонул под новыми.

[honest elk]

могу я, с этим текстом

[plain fog]

Суть того, что запрещают на других серверах использовать АГС как гаубитца, это личные проблемы с головой у администраторов этих серверов. Создавать для этого тред разве имеет смысл? Сама суть в этом посте для обсуждения уже имеется)

[honest elk]

смысл имеет, потому что лицензия ови может заставить администрации серверов откатить эти правила, либо ови геймплейно сделают так, чтобы всех все устраивало. А без огласки проблема останется в таком же состоянии

[plain fog]

Хммм

[hazy cipher]

the best way to fix the shit would be to just tweak the projectile despawn distance to an appropriate value and maybe adjust the MOA at max distances

and please write in english, its everyone's problem and its just a matter of time until more people from english speaking side of squad find out about all of this

mortar calcs have been around for a long time and the only mad people are the guys that get their shit FOBs and HABs instadestroyed by good teams

mortar calc doesnt allow you to shoot farther than intended (1250m on flat ground), AGL overlays allow you to shoot MUCH farther than intended (probably intended to shoot the gun sight distances and just slightly farther)

we had release date m113 mortar carriers that were very simular in lethality to AGLs, they just cant really damage emplacements good enough

and they got nerfed almost instantly

[hushed gyro]

Lol Calling the most broken form of anti infantry splash that's ever existed, on par with AGLs is just too much exaggeration for me dog.

Let's call a Spade a Spade here.

[sacred rock]

THe 120mm mortars were not similar to AGLs.
They have an airburst round (called Near Surface Burst in-game) with 34m blast radius.