are people thumbs downing because you think light infantry is good right now or just disagree with how to fix it. Because I am not saying all of this HAS to be done that's why the title has "discussion" in it.
#closed
brittle wraith
hushed sonnet
The reduced hab cost could be an interesting addition to arguably the worst unit type in the game.
Changing how kits function/what they contain between units would not be a good change since currently kits are standardized across units within a faction with only the amount of hats being the difference which is fine since they are overall the same faction.
a decrease in ATGM emplacements costs to build/fire and reload across the board for all unit types would be a great change since post ATGM rework they are much less effective at bolstering the AT capability of a side, or if solely for Light Infantry a good special characteristic.
brittle wraith
i don't get you reasoning for not have standardized kits across units, like i get that it wouldn't be the same but why is that bad?
hushed sonnet
i don't get you reasoning for not have standardized kits across units, like i ge...
I believe that squad's reliance on having all unit types of a faction using the same loadouts/kits helps to sell/make each factions identity especially since loadouts try to reflect the IRL loadout of that position(By adding UBGL to SLs would take away from VDV's unique factor of having that for example) While much might change in how you play due to the different unit types, the base infantry gameplay remains the same within a faction. There is also the fact that there would be two versions of each kit now within a faction that needs to be balanced.
OWI has shown that the difference/balance between unit types should be in:
VIC types/access
Emplacement types/access
Kit Availability
Other Special Characteristic (Support's intel)
Nothing that touches how kits work/what they get
brittle wraith
well the kit availability was a new things as well
and it doesnt have to be the SL how has the extra GL
they just need just extra infantry firepower since the don't get autocannon IFVs
hushed sonnet
Giving them more FS roles for example would be a better buff in line with the way other unit types work
hushed sonnet
I also saw your buddy rally suggestion, I think that could be a good one
brittle wraith
yeah but i could also see how it could be OP, if people know how to use it best. But then again people barely even use buddy rallies for insurgents
hushed sonnet
yeah but i could also see how it could be OP, if people know how to use it best....
it would be no more powerful than it is with INS and they already have it on all unit types(unless they changed that)
brittle wraith
yeah i guess. It would keep light inf more flexible and able to pressure attack flags without needing vehicle support as much
it would just feel kind of cheesy to have an SL and 1 other squad mate go behind the enemy flag on a quad bike then have like 2-3 infantry squad spawn on a buddy sally
like it would obviously help the sub-unit as a whole, but maybe it would help too much
drifting spade
Some yes some no, the reason why the light inf are weak is because lack of armour, so instead of buffing inf kits that has nothing to do with armour like sl I would buff at kits, maybe an extra rocket for some, tho that would also be a bit over powered. Maybe another at truck of some sort
brittle wraith
the point of improving infantry kits is to make the sub-unit slightly more effective at killing enemy infantry, since the don't have armor, which usually contributes a lot to infantry kills. And for anti-vehicle I would say the current 4 HAT kits and 8 Lat kits per team is fine. But this is why I suggested to increase ammo bag capacity so that HATs/LATs can rearm more rockets off of them.
And I am not saying that just improving infantry kits alone will make it more competitive against other sub-units. its the combined improvements of buddy rallies, lower build costs for Habs and ATGMs, and improved infantry kits.
tawdry vapor
are people thumbs downing because you think light infantry is good right now or ...
Light infantry is already good and dominant on certain maps with a lot of cover
brittle wraith
I would say that they are more balanced on maps with a lot of cover, but not 'dominant'. This is because cover just allows AT to have an easier fight against vehicles. But once the vehicles are dealt with Light Inf has no advantage over other sub-units, they are just the same.
And if you are saying that this still provides a ticket advantage to light inf since the enemy vehicles are being destroyed, this still is not the case since light inf has the same amount of vehicle tickets, its just spread out amongst a bunch of 5 ticket vehicles that only require 2 LAT hits or 1 HAT hit to set on fire or even destroy.
humble eagle
SL with the same amount of grenades as a grenadier? This alone is a thumbs down and ridiculous
brittle wraith
SL with the same amount of grenades as a grenadier? This alone is a thumbs down ...
Why? how is that more overpowered than IFVs and APC with autocannons?
if anything i would say thats still not even close in abilities
warm phoenix
if anything i would say thats still not even close in abilities
Yeah a infantryman obviously does not have the same abilities as an IFV...
brittle wraith
yeah i don't get why he think having 2 grenadiers in a squad is 'ridiculous'
warm phoenix
You proposed the SL becoming a grenadier as well, not a second GL role
brittle wraith
thats because a second GL would take away from rifleman or other fire support roles. therefore not much of an upgrade and wouldnt be used
warm phoenix
So no second GL then
brittle wraith
then how can you improve Light infs anti-infantry firepower?
warm phoenix
Their inf does not need improvements
warm phoenix
Where is the issue with that?
brittle wraith
because currently Light inf has to work hard and kill the enemy vics to only accomplish balance not have an advantage.
warm phoenix
because currently Light inf has to work hard and kill the enemy vics to only acc...
How does a second GL help to kill vics?
brittle wraith
it doesnt
it helps with infantry fights
thats my point if the light inf team kills the enemy armor that just means they are now equal with the enemy and have no advatange over them
for example if you have light inf vs motorized. Light inf starts off with the disadvantage and all they can do is hope that they kill all or most of their armor. And even if they do that, now they are just equal in capability to the other team. because now the TOW vic and HAT advantage don't matter, since the enemy vics are destroyed
warm phoenix
for example if you have light inf vs motorized. Light inf starts off with the di...
A second grenadier wont change that. Those micro changes have no measurable effect in the end. Also 4 HATs is already a very significant advantage.
brittle wraith
i never said a second grenadier alone will improve this. I said second grenadier, buddy rally, cheaper TOWs and HABs, and lower the ticket amounts for the most open top light vics they get
and more ammo in ammo bags
and dont get me wrong the 4 HAT definitely is an advantage but compared to armored vehicles it doesn't even compare since most IFVs are good at anti-vehicle and anti-infantry, while HAT is only anti-vehicle
humble eagle
A second grenadier wont change that. Those micro changes have no measurable effe...
fr
humble eagle
i never said a second grenadier alone will improve this. I said second grenadier...
but an sl with 10 GL grenades is a genadier bruh
brittle wraith
i know. whats the problem?
do you 2 think that light inf is actually a good sub-unit compared to the other except for air assault and maybe support?
or do you just disagree with how to improve it?
brittle wraith
(edit to main post) - removed the grenadier part of suggestion since most people seem to be only against that aspect of it.
solar grail
Units should be chosen to suit the situation. Light infantry with 4 HAT is already the best choice for defending in the city. Buffing light infantry would make them OP in some scenarios
brittle wraith
again, 4 HATs only nullify the advantage of the enemies armor its doesn't give them an advantage. And you may think that this still provides a ticket advantage to the light inf team, but it doesn't because light inf has the about same amount of total vehicle tickets than any other sub-unit type. And with light inf vehicles they are obviously easier to destroy because they have lower HP and you can kill the crew inside with HMGs, autocannons, and RPGs, unlike apcs/ifvs.
For example, this is US army light inf vs Russian Mechanized:
US total vehicle tickets = 114 tickets
RU total vehicle tickets = 100 tickets
warm phoenix
again, 4 HATs only nullify the advantage of the enemies armor its doesn't give t...
It does. On maps like Fallujah light infantry with 4 HATs basically cancels out the advantage of armor. So the enemy team looses many tickets by vehicle losses. Your ticket calculation is also somewhat flawed, because vics such as MRAPs and Logies are usually not used as offensively as armor and thus more likely to survive longer.
I agree that light inf and motorized inf have to be more unique, but instead of micro changes such as an additional GL, which dont affect the outcome of matches in a measurable way, they should rather get more logies, more helis, prehaps different command assets with shorter cooldowns or other things that really matter.
brittle wraith
It does. On maps like Fallujah light infantry with 4 HATs basically cancels out ...
I kind of get what you are saying about it being flawed because they not used as offensively as armor is, which i agree with, but usually, at least in most pub matches, they either end up abandoned in some random area of the map then destoryed or they rush to much and get destoryed because of it. And if the MRAPs aren't used offensively, then what is? maybe the 1 MBT but this is the problem that I am trying to solve. How can we improve the light inf's ability to attack. Personally, I think the buddy rally aspect of my main post would be the biggest improvement because it would keep the faction flexible and allow the unit to attack the flags more easily by keeping up the pressure.
And for your suggestion on how light inf can be improved. Those would definitely improve the faction but for example:
"more logis" - that is what support/logistics is for
"more helis" - that is what air assault is for
"command assets" - maybe depending on how powerful it is
This is why my original idea was to have a bunch of different micro changes that overall would be an improvement and would make the faction feel more like a light infantry unit and not just a light vehicle unit.
solar grail
On invasion if the attackers don't have an advantage the default advantage of defending would make the defenders win.
brittle wraith
I agree that light inf is good when defending in invasion but the sub-unit shouldn't only be good at 1 side of 1 game mode
and i am not saying that it needs to be perfectly balanced against all other sub-units. I am just asking for it to not be a completely idiotic pick for majority of maps in AAS/RAAS.