Warrior Upgrade

[cloud urchin]

1. even if its not "historical" maybe give Warrior/Raden Gun a Stabilisation. (See Wiki Pic)
2. Add Warrior (Milan) for Mechanised Force.
3. Let the rest the same, as they have there strong Pros (High Ammo Count > Low Fire Rate / Manual Reload, etc.)

BAF Mechanised

• turn Warrior into Warrior UP
• turn Warrior UP into Warrior UP+Milan

With good tweaking, BAF could be the Best MECH Faction in Game, as an "Specialist" Faction.

General Feedback

Dont try to make every Faction a Allrounder Faction and have all "Units", some like the CAF and BAF, are "Specialist" Faction with Equipment for a spesific Doctrin.
like
BAF - Mech Faction
CAF - Motorized Faction

We need to push these aspect to make Faction Mission type Effektiv, and make them Experts in there Doctrin. Just saying LAV6 dam its good.

STAB should adress 90% of Players hate against BAF/Warrior

[fair ember]

The solution to vehicles is not buffing them by giving the STAB they dont have, the entire issue with the BTR and BMP is that it has absurds amount of armour they shouldnt have

Make armour behave realisticly and ammunition behave realisticly against said armour.

The Warrior would be a powerful boy that can rip through a lot, soak up a lot but must be stationary for the most part when shooting. While the BTR would be effective on the move with a powerfull canon, but made of tissue paper. BMP would just be cheap in terms of tickets as that is mostly what it has going for it

[unborn stone]

then we'd have like 3 second ttks on vehicles

[cloud urchin]

you talking about VCO stuff, this is compered to Vanilla Squad how it is right now.

If OWI do a VCO, Vic would be a new world, old feedback like that above, would be then out of place.
But sadly OWI sayed the will not do a VCO in near future.

[fair ember]

On the BTR or BMP yea because the BTR and BMP are shitty vehicles that havent been replaced due to financial concerns. The main benifit for the BMP is the russian design doctine of keeping them smaller targets and the strength of the BTR is the speed it has, have pros and cons to vehicles instead of just a couple state determining wether its a good or bad vehicle

Heavier IFV with proper armour would be best in stand up fights while lighter vehicles would be better for flanking as theyd have to hit the heavier IFVs in the side.

And lastly shitter IFV would just flat out be cheaper and have lower timers

[fair ember]

Uffff when they state that? Havent seen it

[timber ermine]

Warrior MILAN is a stupid addition just give them the AJAX at this point

Also Warrior MILAN the MILAN hasnt been in use with the brits in decades and that weapon system can only be operated from the outside so it would still be shit

[cloud urchin]

QnA Livestream Twitch, they sayed the will NOT do a VCO like 44 or somthing in the near futher.

[timber ermine]

• Remove reload mechanic
• Increase rate of fire from 70 to 90 rounds per minte
• Increase the damage to AP rounds to further increase the DPS
• Make FV510 UA the new FV510
• Add the FV510 TES(H) the new FV510 UA

[timber ermine]

They said they can take parts of it but it wont be copy pasted system

Crew kills for example will not be a thing ever in Squad

[fair ember]

Yea we dont need a full module system to simulate it currently, even if it would be nice eventually

[cloud urchin]

sure? I unterstand it as they dont have recources and dont wanna do it

[timber ermine]

But stuff like more modules can be added at some point

[timber ermine]

It a low priority but they said they can rework it while not being a copy paste system from Squad 44

Anyway Warrior MILAN is a fat NO

Give them the AJAX

This will buff the Brits by technically readding the CTAS which was removed

Since the upgraded Warrior with a 40mm was removed from the game for a good reason (was not used IRL)

AJAX has been confirmed to be used by Brits now

You writing a novel butto? Holy jesus

[fair ember]

Ajax isnt even in service yet, they are still being tested for the aritic. They have had a few delivered so far but IOC is 2025 and FOC in 2028-2029 same reason ADF shouldnt get a Boxer or and US shouldnt get a M10 Booker

[fair ember]

Nah just needed to insure i had remembered the timeline correctly

[timber ermine]

Ok but they shouldnt be getting a MILAN Warrior either then

Shit hasnt been used in decades

[fair ember]

Nope i dont believe an ATGM should be the end all be all for vehicles in Squad either

[timber ermine]

And its a open top seat for the MILAN not used by the gunner

Just do this #1276455257739890700 message

[fair ember]

The reload is kinda of one of the unique thing of the Warrior and CV9040 as they dont have chain guns. The gun should just be more powerfull, it also means it can gun when turned of which should also be a mechanic limited on vehicles. Turning of the vehicles shouldnt be effective on all vehicles

[timber ermine]

Well the reload is idiotic, IRL crew constantly tops of the ammo making it fire non stop

Its reloaded by 2 3 round clips, 90 RPM gives the commander enough time to constantly top it off

I dont care when CV9040 does since its not in the game

But RARDEN in game is stupid for the reload mechanic and makes the Warrior crap to use

[fair ember]

Its only stupid because the current game mechanics make firerate important which is where the make it more powerfull part comes in

[timber ermine]

So remove reload (realisticly crew can shoot non stop with constant topping off) and increase the fire rate from 70 to 90 (real life specs)

And increase damage

Simple yet effective changes to make Warriors and even Scimitars a viable vehicles to go against Russian and Chinese IFVs

[fair ember]

Id say have the reload be a mechanic where you load it to maintain the unique trait and RPM should just be 90 that its not is just stupid. Rework implied

[fair ember]

Yes

[fair ember]

Scimitar is absolutely scuffed in the current balance

[timber ermine]

Remove reload because like i said again, crews IRL can and are constantly topping off the magazine since the gun is loaded by 2 3 round clips

Not 1 6 round clip like it is in game

Just add a sound cue every 3 rounds where you hear a clip being added in

Only part where you should press R is when switching ammo

Otherwise it needs to go

Is it unique IRL for it, yes, do we need it in game, no sound cue is enough

[fair ember]

Yes and have it be a mechanic skillfull player can use instead of removinh it all together

The reason it hold 6 in game is just because it the maximum capacity and is just a proof of squads lack of as staged system

[timber ermine]

Or you know remove it since having a reload destroys your DPS

We want to make Brits a viable faction

Spamming R every 6 rounds is nor a skill mechanic

[fair ember]

Removing shit that is thematically correct is not a solution reworking them to work is

[timber ermine]

Removing shit that is shit is good, since for the 4th fucking time, crews IRL can constantly top off the magazine

[fair ember]

Id be every 3 would make the gunner think how much he has shoot istead of just spam shooting which is the current meta for vehicles and redicolus in its own way

[timber ermine]

It would be thematically correct if there is a fucking sound cue every 3 rounds

[timber ermine]

This would then need a massive damage buff to make the vic viable at all

[timber ermine]

Also magazine holds 2 3 round clips you cant reload and fire at the same time so this wouldnt work at all

[fair ember]

Like you just want the Warrior to be a spam canon like all the other IFVs in game even though thats one of the fundemental issues of the current vehicle system. DPS and Armours should be end on be all we are not playing a fucking MMO

[timber ermine]

Bro i want a Warrior to be good

[fair ember]

Exactly such a chart shouldnt be the end all be all

[slate citrus]

this chart clearly shows how dogshit warrior is

[fair ember]

Yea Im not disagreeing that the Warrior and Schimitar are dog shit in game

[timber ermine]

Remove reload, increase RPM and increase the max damage

[timber ermine]

Yet you wanna keep the mechanic that makes them shit in

[fair ember]

That a band aid solution to a flawed vehicle system

[timber ermine]

Thats a solution to the Warrior and Scimitar being shit

[slate citrus]

hes told you several times, real warrior doesnt need to reload

[fair ember]

I think the entire vehicle system is flawed, its copied almost directly from Battelfield and clashes with the infantry gameplay

[timber ermine]

Technically it does reload they just dont stop firing while clips are loaded in

[timber ermine]

Its not in BF you do more damage to vics ass, in Squad you dont

If it pens it does same damage no matter the armor

[fair ember]

It does it has a 6 round magazine reload in 3 round clips. He just want that to be automatic i want it as a mechanic as its what seperates a manual autocanon from a chain gun.

[slate citrus]

how do you propose getting warrior up to par then removing reload is the easiest solution

[fair ember]

Yea ofcourse its not a 1-1, like no shit

[timber ermine]

Increasing damage and rate if fire would increase DPS but that DPS flops as soon as you need to reload

Removing the reload and just having a sound cue would be fine to buff the RARDEN

[fair ember]

Yea its the easiest solution as stated above it a band aid solution to a flawed system. It the vehicle system that should be redone to account for strengths an weaknesses not indvidual vehicles that should have DPS, Armour and STAB as the only things that matter

[slate citrus]

devs already stated they will not be doing a VCO

[timber ermine]

Id love to see vehicle system or parts of it from Squad 44 where you have multiple ways to kill armor

And have more components

[fair ember]

Like I dont think I and @timber ermine actually disagree on the fact that the warrior and schmimtar should be buffed we disagree on how it should ne done

[timber ermine]

But thats a low priority

So a bandaid fix is what we need

[fair ember]

Yea and its fucking dumb to fundementaly change infantry gamplay and not changing vehicle gamplay to match the infantry gameplay

[slate citrus]

ive seen owis proposal of VCO and it looked really shit

and wasnt squad44s vehicle overhaul what contributed to killing the game? there was no updates for almost a year i think while they were working on it

its not a small undertaking

squad also went through patch drought

[fair ember]

Squad 44 or Post Scriptum was already dead at the point that update released. Squad 44 was horribly marketed(As in not existent) and HLL gobbeled up most of the players that wanted such a game

[drowsy pilot]

The warrior would be fine if all of them were changed to UA ones (the regular one is awful since it has no real advantage), the gun's reload was removed, the ROF fixed to 90 and the damage per shot increased to 75 (at least) for 112 DPS.

With ICO/ATGM-Rework idk if increasing the damage resistance to HAT is fully needed but putting it at 0.75 instead of the current 1 would help it actually be semi-tanky.

Making the warrior not play like a warrior would be boring for the game, making it play like a warrior BUT GOOD is way better.

[ripe burrow]

Lets do some math here to find out what the minimal changes would be to balance those vics.

A BTR has a TTK of 12.6 (3.6 to kill turret) against a Warrior. A BMP has a TTK of 11.8 (3.54 to kill turret).
I dont know how much turret HP both vics have, but I guess 600?

With Dongies ROF + Reload buff, the Warrior would have a TTK of 11.11 (6.6 to kill turret) vs. a BTR.

With Dongies ROF + Reload buff + 30% damage buff, the Warrior would have a TTK of 7.4 (4.44 to kill turret) vs. a BTR

With the last example it would still be inferior in a "fair" 1 vs. 1 against BTRs/BMPS, but it could easily when when engaging the BTR/BMP first.

[drowsy pilot]

This is considering that the BTR or BMP has an easy shot on the turret, the warrior's other advantages can help.

[timber ermine]

Other words im right everyone else is wrong

My neck hurts from holding this big head for game design ideas

[ripe burrow]

BTRs almost always have the initiative and can surprise Warriors or at least engage them faster due to stabilization.

And they can always engage the turret easily, it is not hard to hit.

Which other advantages is the Warrior supposed to have? I can think of none that would help in this situation.

[timber ermine]

Tbf Warriors are far better at longer range fights with a far flatter trajectory

In CQB fights yeah BTR will have a far better advantage due to mobility and rate of fire, BMP has better rate of fire but both have far worse HP pool and armor

Especially if you take into account if you are fighting a FV510 or FV510UA

[ripe burrow]

Yes, but this does not matter on most maps.

BTR vs. Warrior fights are CQB 90% of the time.

[timber ermine]

Crew skill issue with the warrior at that point

But for longer range fights its perfect on Talil, Yeho, Basrah

Goose too

Could even throw Manic at that roster too

Anvil, Lashkar (debateable)

Narva is a mix really, its not open areas but some sightlines are pretty long

[ripe burrow]

Not really. Even on Yeho most vic fights are CQB, and if the BTRs are somewhat smart they force the Warrior to engage in CQB. There is not much the Warrior can do, as it is almost always forced to react, because BTRs are faster and dictate when and where a fight happens.

It is the opposite, it is a rare skill issue if the BTR tries to kill a Warrior at 1km

[noble isle]

Add Ajax (or CTAS for interim)
Remove reload
Increase 30mm damage
Decrease Scimitar tickets/make frontal arc unpennable to 14.5mm

Putting a Milan on the roof would be nice for some Regiments. The inclusion of the Milan would lead the way to enabling the BAF to have a Land Rover Milan (solving BAF no tow vic). Also swap the TOW emplacement for a Milan.
All of the above can be ignored if OWI finally introduce the Javelin.