GER mechanics concept

[stoic gazelle]

GER is a difficult stand to replicate, as it ties into the concept of fate and will, how does one replicate this in minecraft?

Fate in jojo is often seen as pre-determined, a path everyone follows and as such, certain people are fated to die, and others fated to live, GER directly challenges this, allowing giorno to escape his destined fate of death by Diavolo's hand, however since Diavolo was also fated to win, and thus not die, he instead was subjected to an infinite number of near deaths, as a means of preventing giorno's death since he was, in fact, fated to die, the death loop was GER's solution to that paradox.

So how do we implement fate into Minecraft in a way that isn't overblown and complicated? We don't. The paradox that caused Diavolo's deathloop was, in turn, because he decided to observe the future and dictate giorno's fate, it functioned like a Schrodinger's cat, creating a definite outcome that then had to be "returned to zero" by GER, so until king crimson gets added, the deathloop doesn't need to be added

So then let's talk abilities.

PASSIVE: Return to Zero
So long as GER is summoned, the user effectively cannot die, if they are dealt what should be a fatal blow or are subjected to any time-based abilities (Such as TS) It will simply be reversed to right before the action occurred, this could de-summon the stand for balance's sake.

STATS:
GER will have Maxed stats in all categories, except development potential, since it has technically reached it's peak.

ABILITIES:
Life Giver (Requiem): Giorno's normal life powers, instead creates 4 of the creature compared to the normal 1.
Projectile beam: Take any block in your off-hand, propel it forward at ridiculous speed in the form of a beam, exploding wherever it hits
Heal: Same as base GE, maybe make it a bit stronger in trade.
Life Sense: Make all nearby creatures glow unless not touching a block connected to the one the player is on. if touching a person, also be able to tell if they have a stand

[hushed galleon]

Just a few corrections, Diavolo did die, he is only immune to dying while in Time Erase, which he wasnt at the moment as GER returned to moment prior to that. As stated in its profile, those strucked by this power will have even their deaths reverted to zero, and with that continuously die, infinitly

Also, GER development would still be above the mark

As in JoJo a GoGo, which also has its growth, all his stats are "None" because its stats are so high compared to other stands that it cant be quantified like them

While I dont mind the fact that it would stop you from dying, since GER in the mod seems like it will be more of a Devil Trigger over a separate stand entirely, it reverting anyone from trying to hit the user, which would also include when they are gonna be killed, makes a tad more sense, since thats how the ability works

Return to zero triggers whenever there is a ill intent or action against the user

Also, I think it should only cancel TS, TE, BTD and MiH only if the user of said stand attacks the GER user, as just using it doesnt trigger it

But with ill intent, so in this case attacking or affecting the user, during those times, does trigger it, like how TE was returned to Zero during it when Diavolo was preparing to strike Giorno

[wooden stag]

I think it's worth introducing a variable responsible for the fact that two players are enemies. For example, if in the last 30 seconds before the player dealt damage to each other, they are enemies. Then GER will cancel that player's abilities.

[hushed galleon]

I dont think it really is needed for such a thing when just trying to hit someone ger would already stop it

sure, the player can use their powers to get away, but thats how it would go

GER doesnt cancel abilities by existing or anything like that, just when they try to harm him

[stoic gazelle]

Once you start getting into infinity logic breaks down, if he has his deaths reverted to zero but dies an infinite amount of times, he logically has AND hasn't died an infinite amount of times, the reason I go with the side that he hasn't is because fate is treated as absolute in jojo, and thus he "Can't" die because he was fated not to, GER's whole thing that i gathered is that since Diavolo is fated to win, not die to Giorno, he instead is subjected to an infinite number of "deaths" as a means of killing him even though fate dictated it shouldn't happen.

[wooden stag]

This was clearly not shown in the anime/manga, it was not said that requiem gives you the ability that you need or something. I believe that the will of the player (and therefore the stand) should strive to protect not only you, but also your allies. That's why I suggested an option with the mechanics of "enmity". GEAR should also inherit the desire to win, so perhaps it should cancel TS and other abilities used in the escape attempt

[hushed galleon]

but its literally on his profile, that was written by Araki that it will die a infinite amount of times

[hushed galleon]

at no point do I say that Requiem gives the ability that you need, I referenced the profile that explains how Return to Zero works

which is also the image above

which is why Time Erase was reverted to Zero

[stoic gazelle]

but again, saying "deaths reverted to zero" and the following "Die an infinite number of times" creates an extremely convoluted ability that ends up being paradoxical within it's own explanation. if your deaths are reverted to zero, you cannot (and technically never have) died, if you die an infinite number of times, than you simultaneously have not, and from there it all falls apart.

[hushed galleon]

also, sure, in a team scenario it sounds ok, but that would kinda go against what the stand does. Is the same as if you have a regular Purple Haze and make it so it cant hurt players that are part of your team, ideally it sounds fine to not have friendly fire, but it literally go against what the stand is shown to do

[hushed galleon]

it isnt convoluted like that, Diavolo is dead, the point there is that he will never know what his death is, and with that die a infinite number of times, thats what the revert to zero references, and GER explaining how Diavolo will never reach the truth.

it doesnt kill then revive you, is that Diavolo literally will never know how he dies

which is the irony of the character that had the power to see the future and relied on said ability to seal fate

on a sidenote, every JoJo villain dies in a ironic way to their ability

which is probably due to the memo that Araki has to the series

[stoic gazelle]

I'm not saying it kills then revives you, that's the exact thing that i'm saying DOESN'T happen.

You never experience death, meaning you never die an infinite number of times, you just experience an infinite number of NEAR deaths, but never truly "die". The issue is that Epitaph showed him the fate (Which has been stated to be absolute) that he killed giorno, which is WHY he experiences the near-deaths, because it was the only way to beat him that doesn't break the rules of fate.

Diavolo never experiences the "truth" of his prediction, instead forced to constantly live an infinite amount of ways to die, which was GER's method of "Killing" him, even though fate dictated that he shouldn't die, and in a way, he never did.

And by those rules, if he had never observed the future, setting that fate in stone, GER would have killed him normally

His own ability to see and set the future in stone is what caused his infinite suffering, which also still abides by him dying in a ironic way to his ability too.

Like how i said in the post, it's like Shroedinger's cat, his observing of his future is exactly what caused the outcome

[hushed galleon]

Yes, epitah showed Diavolo the future, except that GER replies right after that he will never arrive at the reality that will occur, and that none against him will, regardless of their ability. Diavolo also doesnt near dies, the issue with that is that you are just seeing into Diavolo perspective and claiming that to be what it is happening, when it isnt.

Diavolo is dead, but we, by his perspective, never reach a conclusive cause of his death because he will never reach it, "he has no longer anywhere to go", for a reason there is no need to check his body, Giorno already knows (via GER) that he is dead.

Also a correction, the future isnt in stone because of Epitah, Fate has always been a always conducting force in the universe of JoJo, same way that Fortune and Misfortune are in current JoJo, the Sleeping Slaves arc literally would contradict the statement that Fate is set in stone by having another stand that is able to kill you just so you dont suffer a tragic end and is literally moved by Fate

And GER just making him constantly die just to counteract his power is also not true, it is a literal byproduct of his power as his profile states, add in that the two requiem stands that we see literally play with the souls and fate of people and you can make a sound argument that saying that Fate is still sealed when Requiems are in play doesnt make sense. Regular basic ass stands already defy fate, take for instance Bites The Dust, which will literally bend fate and change it for others in a whim, or even MiH who entire purpose relies on the fate on others and making mankind be able to control their own fate

to add more that fate isnt set in stone, they themselves changed how they would die

[stoic gazelle]

Certain Specific stands manipulate fate, that is their ability, but unless you can manipulate it, you must abide by it. GER and KC do not manipulate Fate.

Also, the future IS set in stone because of epitaph, that's how the ability works, by observing the future you in the process collapse all possible outcomes into the 1 "truth". although the concept of fate believes that in reality there is always 1 set path regardless, and thus epitaph reads the absolute future that fate determines.

Yes, Diavolo, to us, is dead, but that's an effect of ger, Giorno gets to live in the reality that he died, Where diavolo, because of his insistence on using fate against his enemies, must live with the paradoxical nature of never knowing his death, Both are simultaneously true, and not true, that's how bending reality and fate works, And in fact, All requiem stands abide by the exact same rules of fate, Bites the dust abides by the fate of those who died, unless the ability is released. MiH still abides by the fate of those who are reborn in the next universe. Rolling stones has the ability to circumvent fate because it is also an incredibly weak stand, such is the compromise. you can also see Scolippi state that multiple of them will die, as that is their fate, and sure enough, that fate was true and absolute.

The reason Diavolo is stuck in his loop is BECAUSE fate is absolute, GER, abiding by the laws of fate, cannot kill him, so instead, it "traps" him in a paradox of his own creation, that's the irony of it.

This is all reinforced by these points being made throughout the part repeatedly, Giorno's speech about the 1 true path, Mista's belief of set fate, rolling stones knowing some of them will die as dictated by their fate, and onward. this is a theme that is re-iterated multiple times throughout part 5.

It thus stands to reason that these rules stay true when describing the ability of GER, as it should, for all intents and purposes, abide by the rules set out by the part it's in.

unless EXPLICITLY STATED to break these rules, which it wasn't.

[hushed galleon]

KC ignores Fate while erasing time, that is how he didnt die to Aerosmith

GER literally bends reality to alter Fate, changing the outcome that Diavolo saw. Even reverting deaths to zero to those affected by it

Again, Rolling Stones is literally able to end someone so they dont meet their unfateful demise, essentially shutting off a sad fate, that on its own would already be contradictory to fate being set in stone since a power that is also moved by fate can just end you prematurely, which in turn would have a immense butterfly effect.

Also, I get that your argument about to us in "this" reality he is dead, but in JoJo there isnt paralel realities, that is something Araki himself already stated in interviews to be the case, Diavolo doesnt exist in a separate reality that he experiences all kinds of deaths, Diavolo is just gone forever, there is only one path to the truth.
Bites The Dust is literally able to not only bring back people from having their literal souls destroyed, as his bombs already do, but he will also seal fate to those people that died in a previous loop by moving past them, it literally is able to seal fate to others in the new loop if they exploded in the previous one, regardless of what they are doing, as shown by Rohan exploding even though he didnt even meet Hayato.
MiH literally creates a new flow of time to accelerate the end of the universe and bring a new, with the plan in mind that all other living beings experience their fate and then are moved on to a new universe that is already awaiting those universe travelling people, and in the stand profile it is very clear that Pucci is the only one excluded from that ability and is ignored by fate during it, being the entire reasoning as to why Emporio needed Pucci to act, as he is the only one who is not forced by fate, which is also why his death literally undid everything and they were sent back
Rolling Stones itself shows that they will die, and they had a choice, they rejected

[hushed galleon]

Again, Diavolo is not in a loop because Fate is absolute, is because thats what the stand does

like, sure, you can read between the lines and come with a different assumption, but literally Araki wrote that thats how it is

[hushed galleon]

also, the entire memo is that they are breaking free of their own fate, so not sure how saying that fate is set in stone, against a stand user who relies on seeing the future to know the fated actions of others to beat them, wouldnt prove further the point

like, deadass, Trish is literally being chasen and about to be killed because of the bond she has with her father

all the characters, maybe except Giorno for godknowswhy, has a very tragic life, yet they go against it

at the end of Rolling Stone it is even mentioned that the road before them will be painful, but he hopes that it can serve a greater purpose and bring happiness

which is why he hopes that they will "awaken"

as we are all sleeping slaves to our fate

the reason why it is sleeping is because they blindly are slaves to their fate

I think it servers as a good anecdote that pretty much works to set basically every single jojo character lowkey

besides the entire irony of how KC is trashed upon his own source of power

[stoic gazelle]

KC "Ignores fate" by temporarily allowing him to essentially not exist, it's part of why he can't interact while skipping time, and has to wait until after he re-appears
Bites the dust DOES NOT BRING PEOPLE BACK, It physically reverses time to before the events happen, however fate as demonstrated with MiH, still remains regardless of time, which is why people can still die, because the outcome of fate is absolute, no matter the tampering, unless one can directly manipulate fate itself, such as rolling stones, you're falling to exactly what you say I did, just because you see it happen in show/manga doesn't mean that's exactly how it's happening, to everyone else, the ONLY reality of KQ other than for hayato is the final one where it is circumvented.

MiH does not create a "New flow of time" It accelerates all non-living things until the universe "resets" as shown by the entire "big bounce" theory of the universe, Pucci is excluded because that is a part of the ability, because the stand DOES manipulate Pucci's fate, the fate of those in the new world still abides by all these rules.

You're correct, diavolo DOES NOT exist in a parallel dimension, however this is a result of Infinity, he dies an infinite number of times in an infinitely short amount of time, meaning because of how time and general scientific theory works, everying does and does not happen simultaneously, that's how this works.

Trish is not a prisoner of fate, she is a prisoner of blood, that's her whole development.

They go against their lives because of a desire and belief that better things lie ahead, not because they "break fate"

Rolling stones was correct, it served a greater purpose, as because of their sacrifices, giorno, mista, trish, and those who survived can look forward and bring happinesss after their victory, their sacrifice made it possible.

Those images do not prove GER breaks the rules of fate, it merely shows the results of it and how GER works to loophole fate in it's favor

[hushed galleon]

listen buddy, do you have time powers ? Because if a guy with the power to stop time literally says that Pucci created a new flow of time, I'd say he has more knowledge than both of us

[stoic gazelle]

You can't ignore physics and basic science to explain these abilities, especially since araki has shown a great interest in the abilities being fantastical but still founded in science and reasonability.

[hushed galleon]

also, dont need to put reset on the universe part, Pucci simply did the natural thing that universes work, the universe ended and a new one is eventually born, he just did so to one that is fated to be ready to recieve people from the previous universe

[stoic gazelle]

Sorry but where do you see that? Because all i see is that "He is speeding up time and exempting himself from the effects" He says jack about alternate flows of time, he just calls the faster time "New" because it is a new speed that isn't the default of the universe, but the universe is what dictates the flow of time in the first place

"Shit is faster, this is not normal, and thus new"

[hushed galleon]

Jotaro literally calls it a new flow of time

which makes sense logically, if Living beings move at speed A, while everything else moves at speed B, there is 2 flows of time

[stoic gazelle]

that's more complicated than how the actual ability works, why do you assume that is how that works??

The ability speeds up the universe's time and exempts living things from the affects, It's 1 flow of time, and 1 group with immunity to it

also, you're using a translation, so you already fall into pitfalls of writer intentions, so at the end of the day we can only take it as a mostly correct interperetation.

[hushed galleon]

also, to add up, the ability doesnt exclude Pucci especifically, he is able to freely move within in

him and Araki

[hushed galleon]

thats the official published translations

[stoic gazelle]

Gravity = time, time /=/ Gravity, to speed up time, this requires theoretically negative gravity and mass.

[hushed galleon]

no ? Jotaro literally calls it as a different flow of time, which for all intends and purposes makes sense ? If 2 things are moving at a regular speed but both exist in different times, as we see with Objects fastly breaking or getting dust, while living organisms dont feel any of it, it is clearly different flows of time. It isnt more complicated when we literally see the effects in the scene that implants literally decay while the person is completely fine

[stoic gazelle]

Mih just accelerates time, and can choose what things go faster, and what things do not, but the universe dictates "time" not us, that does not mean we can use that as an excuse to call it 2 separate flows of time.

[hushed galleon]

or how cars and other vehicles, which wouldnt reach certain speeds due to limits reached by physics, achieve speeds faster than the eye can see

[stoic gazelle]

Time is not uniform, next to a black hole or on earth it's the exact same flow of time, just at different speeds

[hushed galleon]

time is not uniform

time is relative

[stoic gazelle]

yeah, that's what i just said

read

[hushed galleon]

reason why a person living in a space station may feel less time passing compared to earth

[stoic gazelle]

Please research these things in more depth before you start using them as blanket statements

[hushed galleon]

regardless, MiH made The Sun look like a line in the sky

[stoic gazelle]

Yes, Gravity=Time, Gravity bends light.

[hushed galleon]

gravity does not equal time

gravity affects space time

but does not equate to it

MiH profile even references that

[stoic gazelle]

in theory, extreme gravity = none/bent light, so it stands to reason extreme negative gravity= more light

[hushed galleon]

they are related yes

not the same

[hushed galleon]

and how does that relate to anything ?

[stoic gazelle]

yes it does, that is a fundamental rule of how science works, gravity is a result of dilated time caused by mass

Gravity is a form of bent time

welcome to relativity

[hushed galleon]

you got it a bit backwards

high mass results in a object creating more gravity towards it

[stoic gazelle]

Brother i STUDY this, I know what i'm talking about.

[hushed galleon]

which in turn warps how time works

[stoic gazelle]

Gravity is a RESULT of the time bending that all great mass causes

[hushed galleon]

if you say so, I trust you, but how would gravity being a product of time being bent explain time dilation ?

since lower gravitational mass would mean time passing slower

and it speeds up as the mass is higher

something newton describes way back when

[stoic gazelle]

So not technically, essentially extreme gravity SLOWS time for the external observer, and speeds it up for the internal observer, but to both, it remains the same from their own point of reference, meaning the external observer sees them slowing down, and the external observer sees them speeding up, this is why made in heaven works the way it does, it allows the gravity of living things to remain normal to them, but to everything else, it is vastly accelerated

[hushed galleon]

I see, thanks for the explanation

[stoic gazelle]

Think of it like each living thing surrounded by their own pocket of "safe" time

[formal phoenix]

My brain turning into liquid after reading all that

I trust you smart fellas will implement this in a good way. I trust you

[vital snow]

dmc mentioned

[hushed galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/dmc-sugarcoat-royal-guard-gif-14172541423208480769

[vital snow]

ger should be sin devil trigger instead of devil trigger

[buoyant mica]

Alright a lot of canon court happened

Y'all really switched to MIH

Rtz should only work if the attack is intentional

You still die by lava and drowning, maybe be fall damage

[hushed galleon]

Minecraft checks when player died to X thing because of another

That much can be worked with ig

[vital snow]

true

but im still in the favour that

ger should be sdt dante instead of dt dante

[sturdy light]

God I fucking hate GER

[formal phoenix]

Blud it’s not even added yet calm down 😭

[rare beacon]

I love how all of this is a result of "Stand abide by OUR physics". Like ok, sure, I love when you try to explain a world where there are literal vampires, ghost punchy dudes that're also your soul and faster than light (+people getting hard-ons for Mona Lisa) with physics

[buoyant mica]

no shit its magical

but araki tried to make it seem real

since, in case you dont know, its actually real life folklore

mixed with arakis religious fetishes

[rare beacon]

Yeyeye I know, jut find it funny how many ppl argue about about this stuff

When you literally have some of the most goofy ahh shit in manga

(It's honestly peak)

[vital snow]

what if mappa animated jojo instead of dp

wait why did i ask this here

am i stupid

[hushed galleon]

Thats pretty much why Araki's stories are interesting

He also explains on his book how a mangaka must try to balance the fictional with the real

Because one is contradictory to the other, but excess of each is boring

So you have stuff like Prosciutto uses Metalica to remove iron on your body, which is what colors your blood red, but at the same time, you literally die a lot earlier before your body would even lose the red color

[vital snow]

stando is related to araki confirmed

both are perfectionists

[dawn edge]

🔥

[turbid oasis]

I'm starting to think that the people who deny JoJo's don't have money for a subscription or something, they just show you a panel from the manga that even Araki doesn't know existed XD because they don't put a screenshot of the wiki or a clip of the Anime.

[vital snow]

if you arent gonna say anything related to this

then just DONT

rant in #off-topic instead

seriously

or im gonna ping a mod

https://tenor.com/view/stare-dont-blink-kanye-west-gif-686697093003925499

[dawn edge]

https://tenor.com/bVPyk.gif

[lime spruce]

🤓☝️

[dawn edge]

check you're source's buddy

[steep pecan]

My brain melted reading all of this

[digital pivot]

Enough GER debate

TWOH still dogwalked GER in EOH

[dawn edge]

That's bs but it happened unfolrtunately

[hushed galleon]

And then SPOH which is just SP, and didnt even show its full body, one punched him

[digital pivot]

SPOH is just darker SP i think

Idfk

It's not white like most people think it is though

[hushed galleon]

They literally did not change the model

Is the default one

[digital pivot]

What

That's it?

[hushed galleon]

Yes

SPOH is just SP

[digital pivot]

Bruh

!

Also how did jotaro asspull dios ring things again

[hushed galleon]

Iirc via Valentine

He stole it or some shit

[vital snow]

he went back to when he killed dio

found his bracelets

took it

[vital snow]

makes sense cos im a dumbass