Calculating amount of bytes data is prior to using :Fire(...) with Packet.

[gilded grail]

I'm simply curious on if there is any means to calculating how many bytes would be the result of data prior to invoking :Fire(...) to be capable of splitting my data across multiple :Fire(...) invokes effectively.

This is mainly down to batching together what would be individual server requests for a placement system to fire all at once when the binding for the "object place" is no longer held for improved network performance over using :Fire(...) every frame while the binding for the "object place" is held.

As a result; the short question here would be: How do I calculate the BufferSize for data before invoking :Fire(...) on the client?

Calculating amount of bytes data is prior to using :Fire(...) with Packet.

[plush skiff]

roblox adds around 17 bytes overhead
number -> 8 bytes
cframe -> 21 bytes
bool -> 1 byte
string -> n bytes

you can get the packet profiler to measure

the final value will be dependant on raknet and roblox buffer compression

[gilded grail]

Aha, I see, that's good to know 👍

I'm curious how this would be used with a dynamic set of data since inherently the nature of a placement system (at least within my game) you can either place a singular item at once or multiple items that you have selected and "moved" meaning it can range heavily.

Alongside this all these come into account with the "batching together" system I mentioned above to improve networking performance which further adds more of a dynamic nature.

As for the format of what is sent to the server via. packet; here's that format if that could possibly help get some sense of direction in where I should move forward with my goal 🙏

[plush skiff]

you know #1350829397380169814

exists

[gilded grail]

Afterall, being able to determine the byte size of the buffer before firing :Fire() with packet to split across multiple :Fire() invokes would significantly help the stability and prevent players from placing so many items at once where the server blocks it due to the 8,000 byte limit

[plush skiff]

it literally does what we are talking rn

[gilded grail]

Packet is what I'm using currently

[plush skiff]

what are you trying to do

then

[gilded grail]

Are you aware of a game called "Miners Haven"?

A sandbox tycoon game, my game is that same genre with a very similar placement system.

[plush skiff]

yes

you should not need networking for that

only syncing

[gilded grail]

How would the client send to the server that objects are being placed?

[plush skiff]

you could make a deterministic factory code that runs both on server and client

just like the tower defense game suphi made

(not saying use that code)

sending data for every object that is produced by a machine will most likely cap your game for network limits

[gilded grail]

Aha, I see; I'll have to look into that instead then, thankfully I'm early into a rewrite for my games codebase so it shouldn't be too big of a hassle to convert over 🙃

[plush skiff]

https://www.factorio.com/

these guys have mastered this genre

they use a snapshot system

with deterministic game loop

late joined players will get the snapshot and continue execution actions

[gilded grail]

Factorio is smthn I've had in the back of my head for the last 7 years of me developing this game; I've never thought to look into if they've wrote anything regarding how they operate internally

[plush skiff]

wow you've been making this game for 7 years?

[gilded grail]

"7 years"

Started in 2018, hiatus from mid-2018 to mid-2020

Paid ALPHA in October 2020

It's been held down due to me building on my 2018 codebase with multiple rewrite attempts which ended up flawed over the years, the game currently isn't to the standard of such a long development time as much as I hate to admit 💔

But tbf in 2018 I was 11 years old, that might have a hand in it

[plush skiff]

making a factorio game that is incredibly optimized is a huge skill

obv

are you sending data for every spawned object in the game?

[gilded grail]

The last 3 months have been heavily focused on research and a proper rewrite that I want out to the live game alongside some feature overhauls but yeah

[plush skiff]

if you want to write it once and for all

what I told you is the way

make a tick system

have a delay for each placement so every client can replicate it in time

if they can't send a full game state snapshot

and let them continue on the next tick

[gilded grail]

Right now the client will send the itemId to the server with a offsetCFrame from the centreCFrame; centreCFrame being the mouse/target point from the client, that offsetCFramethen is applied to the centreCFrame for that model tied to that itemId

[plush skiff]

ideally you should not send anything

a machine should know when to spit an item

also wdym mouse target

[gilded grail]

I've been using a tick system in the live game for about 2 years now exclusively for placed item functionality, I never expanded it everywhere due to the spaghetti code that is the game currently 💔

I'll certainly take the knowledge shared from here today and move forward for a far more stable infrastructure for the future 💯

[gilded grail]

The CFrame of the mouse on the targeted "plane" from the client

[plush skiff]

like when they place a factory?

[gilded grail]

Plane being the grid plane that items can be placed upon

[plush skiff]

of some sort

[plush skiff]

yeah like give it a build time and let everyone replicate

there is a way to do it without buildtime but it's far more complex

[gilded grail]

Old video but shows the client-side behaviour of the placement system with both multi-object and single object
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1391168218487460022/1391168219095760898/2025-07-05_22-11-58.mp4?ex=68c3e71e&is=68c2959e&hm=aee061d0c7f381b991a2c3b0a9db61659664b99ab3102f086705752f276567c8&

[plush skiff]

I've written one for my tower defense game

but it was shit ton of pain

[plush skiff]

oh yeah alr

I see

[gilded grail]

That's why I mention "Miners Haven" as that's the closest and most popular example I can give regarding this system 🙏

[plush skiff]

I don't think miners haven uses a deterministic approach

don't know how scalable their game is

[gilded grail]

The miners haven open source is one that no one should learn from, I know that very well 😅

Afterall they've been working on a update for the last 4 years that rewrites the entire game, that of which at one point was a candidate to join the team on earlier this year; unfortunately didn't make the cut but it is what it is 🙃

[plush skiff]

can you share the code

I wanna take a look

[gilded grail]

It's code from a 2019 version of Miners Haven... it's... something

Considering it's fundamentally built on a mix of code throughout the years of 2015 - 2018 mostly

[plush skiff]

link would be appreciated

[gilded grail]

The 2019 changes being 4 new items, nothing changed to the actual fundamental code

https://github.com/berezaa/minershaven

There's that, just thought for the disclamer before providing the link 👍

[plush skiff]

holy shit

I feel like hopes and dreams holds this game together

Ive never seen this done this way

holy

[gilded grail]

Haha!

I unfortunately spent so much time with that in 2020 developing Miners Haven mods; I understand it inside and out 💔

9/10 torture experience, I don't recommend

[plush skiff]

this game is cooked 11/10

rewriting would be faster

[gilded grail]

The 2015 - 2018 shows for it 🙃

Thankfully, my game does not use this at all

Cause this open source released in late-ish 2019 where as my initial first developments was 2018

[plush skiff]

yeah this game is so far from scalable

probably what you wrote is better

[gilded grail]

For sure, I'll need to redesign what I've done so far anyways for the approach you've mentioned here; especially since I do intend to scale this game quite large with more than just the core item types (Mines, Furnaces and Upgraders) that Miners Haven and other games like tend to have

[plush skiff]

don't use physics please

just warning you

no physics + bulk move + deterministic approach will make you the best factorio game on roblox

you could have hundreds of factories like that

[gilded grail]

I assume you refer to that for ores within the game?

[plush skiff]

yes

even jumps don't need physics

[gilded grail]

Aha, great to know; some custom solution regarding how ores behave will be used, it's been on my mind and I attempted it a few months back but didn't get too far with that 🙏

[plush skiff]

just use math or precalculate the route and move them to there

this is not going to be easy

just letting you know

I would honestly build on what you have if you want to release asap

saying this cuz you want to rewrite

[gilded grail]

I don't expect it to be, I'm happy to further this discussion within DMs if you'd like cause afterall this discussion has been far more insightful than other devs of the same genre have given

[plush skiff]

you can solve this and call it a day

[plush skiff]

really?

I'm honestly just telling you the best way I know

I learned this from factorio blog

how their systems worked

[gilded grail]

I'd rather not call it a day, I want something far greater than "it works" as that has genuinely been the biggest slip up I've made with the live games codebase pre-rewrite

[gilded grail]

One thing I've learnt over the last 2-ish years; Roblox devs don't tend to apply or research outside of what is done on Roblox

[plush skiff]

well those who do usually get to higher places

I used to be just game dev not roblox dev

[gilded grail]

As unfortunate as it is, that's how it comes across

[plush skiff]

true

people need to research and inspire from other professional games

instead of doing what comes to their mind first

[gilded grail]

Roblox dev is just smthn I do in my freetime, these days I am in the process of a game design college course (and will move onto game development course next year from September hopefully)

[plush skiff]

that's great

[gilded grail]

I don't intend to stay to Roblox forever unless huge opportunities arise

[plush skiff]

roblox can make big time

it is important to understand going out of roblox is higher risk higher reward

[gilded grail]

Absolutely, that's one thing that's given me an upper hand over the other Sandbox Tycoon games thankfully with the few things I've done right for UME (the acronym for my game, Universal Miners Eternity) such as an implementation for items to use more than just 1 part for "hitboxes" which are used for placement collision and item selection systems in these sorts of games

[gilded grail]

Absolutely, that's why I keep Roblox here on the side for my freetime which I thankfully have more of compared to most people 👍

[plush skiff]

that is a good idea yea

[gilded grail]

That one was done 4 years ago, as far as my knowledge goes no other sandbox tycoon on Roblox has followed my steps for that

[plush skiff]

tbh group hitboxes are used in roblox games altough I don't know about factory games

[gilded grail]

I just done it cause it makes more unique item shapes possible without hitboxes taking too much space or leaving intersectable parts of item models entirely (e.g. U shaped hitboxes)

[plush skiff]

true and it's actually the primary way most shooters do hitbox like cs2 and tf2

[steady tendon]

https://devforum.roblox.com/t/remote-packet-size-counter-accurately-measure-the-amount-of-bytes-for-remotes/2320709

[plush skiff]

trust me we talked a lot in dms

this was not what they needed

[steady tendon]

yea i didnt bother reading much