General Mod Talk and Bepinex Install Instructions

[jolly solar]

also a mod that puts ui elements like map or in-game cockpit mfd into separate windows to display them on mfd

i wanna make a simpit and this game is one of the games i wanna play on it

i know its a little bit of an overkill

[rapid pilot]

Im very new to modding but a lot of my mods deal with live values fuel flares etc so id say maybe? as for the map im not sure if thatd be classed as cheating it would technically provide an advantage in my opinion im sure 7ep3s will respond letting us know lol

[jolly solar]

i mean you have the map displayed at all times

the only thing that changes is its now on another screen

but again, always on

but even if the mod existed

how would i sync instruments?

im not going to use fancy pricey stuff

[rapid pilot]

ye that would be an advantage as others need to pull the map up its up to moderaters really you could 100% use it in singleplayer thow

[jolly solar]

pay to ban

im thinking about using cheap arduino stuff like

[rapid pilot]

to this extent my modding experience ends but ivve seen harder stuff be made

[jolly solar]

idk what to call them

[rapid pilot]

arduino is fine

[jolly solar]

but still i dont believe it will be a super op thingy since anyone can just see anything on map

im not going to request this as a mod idea because this is way too complex to ask someone but if anyone would like to make it i would be very happy

[rapid pilot]

ye i get that but to others they may see it as an advantage a moderater would need to give the thumbs up

[jolly solar]

can i ping him to ask or..

okay

hi mr mod man

[manic marten]

this kind of stuff is considered perfectly acceptable for similar games

[rapid pilot]

the other issue is youd need someone with a simpit to tests

[jolly solar]

thakn you

[manic marten]

as long as its not beyond the scope

[jolly solar]

well well well

[rapid pilot]

happy days thnxs

[manic marten]

of what the user should be able to see in-game

[jolly solar]

i might know someone like that

https://giphy.com/gifs/ryan-gosling-blade-runner-2049-oma5gHC4q10lywrlqG

me myself and i

except

i dont have a physical simpit rn..

but im working on it

[rapid pilot]

hahaha ping me when your there

[jolly solar]

<t:1784997300:R>

[rapid pilot]

ill tell you what i know someone whos made sim stuff ( for racing games ) ill dm him see what he thinks

[jolly solar]

okay but if we are fr i have exams this year so as soon as i am done with them (start of june) i will make the MOST overkill simpit

well for nuclear option

dcs fans migth find it starter level

but the idea is like

a futuristic yet a mix of analog cockpit that could be both inside a modern jet, a retired fighter, or even a starfighter

4 MFDs

[rapid pilot]

dcs die hards will tell you to upgrade if your sims not in a retired airframe of an f14 lol

[jolly solar]

lmao

oh also

it will have a whole autopilot section that works with the NOautopilot mod

[manic marten]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mpZrsrX-Cw

[jolly solar]

okay

mine will have just a little bit less buttons

mitch give us more buttons im making a compass irl

[rapid pilot]

ah yes the perfect starter rig missing a functional g suit thow

[manic marten]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfelqck_huM

[jolly solar]

what is on his head

is he recording his forehead

forehead status: good

[rapid pilot]

flipped view

[manic marten]

i only have a "normie" setup

[jolly solar]

yours?

[rapid pilot]

british plugs?

[manic marten]

aye

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[jolly solar]

scottland?

[rapid pilot]

ah im a little south of you

[mystic sable]

Yep, looks the same to me, minus the burstdebuginfo

[jolly solar]

AJHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

ragoon

the ragoon cave

nicident

incidcent

[rapid pilot]

did you turn the bepiex console on in the config?

[jolly solar]

okay so

[manic marten]

some mods don't load
if you don't change hidemanagergameobject to true in bepinex.cfg

you are missing winhttp.dll

it comes with bepinex

it relies on it to hook into the game

you need it in the game folder

did you install the correct version of bepinex

[jolly solar]

this is how

it will pretty much

look like

a

im not kidding

literally like this

the vertical blue screens are for engine RPM and horizontal one is fuel

the left right panels come later

[rapid pilot]

technically seems doable id imagine a lot of others would use the mod too not a bad idea

[jolly solar]

someone called just hotas overkill sooo

😄

[inland flax]

took a nap, time to hate myself and try to learn some more

[manic marten]

i made my own gauge for Assetto Corsa once with one of those small lcd segments

its easier for that game because the developers provide a telemetry interface you just have to map the shared memory out and read it

but to be fair basic stuff like fuel level, engine rpm etc its fairly easy to for this game also

[rapid pilot]

ive got no experience with ui except the bepinex ones ( the ai is surprisingly good at tutoring on these ) gonna see if i can get the live map on my second monitor

[jolly solar]

yeah thats the idea, 4 lcd segments for rpm, 2 extra for when flying tula ( will have a plate to cover it if using something with less engines) and 1 more lcd for fuel

basically a cockpit that has a shape fitting any type of aircraft

but it might look absurd with tarantula

wait

i have a super funny idea

what if i added a second hotas for the tarantula 76mm gunner

my dad has some aim

he will be behind me looking left

with a second (actually 6th) screen

god, the nihilist penguin hit me again

https://giphy.com/gifs/penguin-mountain-418lioDs1WoyOO0AKb

[manic marten]

ya I use ai lots as well to give me boilerplate code for generic stuff
and then I shape it to my actual needs

it can speed up the process quite a bit in some cases

[rapid pilot]

ye copilot is doing most of my ui changes but i dont wanna rely on him while im learning so im having him break it down and teach me in a way my other learning ai whos trying his best is really struggling thow lol anytime i let him touch code he just freaks out

[jolly solar]

okay so

real problem

how do i make the wooden cockpit frame without having any tools or wood

i live in an apartment\

[rapid pilot]

cheap desk and plasterboard or drywall if your american

[chilly bluff]

Map would be cheating, MFDs would be fine I think?

[manic marten]

if its the same info on the map that you can see in the game how is it cheating

[chilly bluff]

if it’s broken out to a separate screen it’s always visible

[manic marten]

its just on another screen you still have to divide your attention

[chilly bluff]

I do think it’d be nice, though

[manic marten]

if the map would give you extra tactical awareness by highlighting threats vectoring towards you etc before you get missile warnings from the game, that would be pushing it though

[chilly bluff]

i mean it kinda is but it’s also fun

[manic marten]

I have so many ideas but I do think it would be unfair

I could turn a steam deck into a wso seat

[rapid pilot]

ye this was my problem id go "hey thats a really good idea" then boom realise im making closet cheats

[daring locust]

unity games are notoriously difficult for this iirc

i don't think there is any native support for games that have more than one window

[manic marten]

you could always make a different window with a separate app and set up a network socket

for transferring data

and render stuff locally

in the other app

any way you want

idk how much you can mess with custom resolutions un unity but for example the way DCS does this, it extends the game window by a user-designated area, you gotta do some configuration voodoo to align your extra screen(s) with it and then it just stitches things together for you so your in-cockpit MFD(s) show(s) on the real screen(s)

[chilly bluff]

honestly multicrew chicanery with a steam deck tedac would be silly fun

[rapid pilot]

im wondering if thered be anyway to tell certain units to fire for example imagine a map where you can tell ships to fire cruise missiles or agm 99's or even call your own ballistic missile strikes

if i do develop the second moniter app i would really appreciate it if the more experinced modders could take a look for leakage etc

[manic marten]

we are here to help each other

https://klipy.com/gifs/apes-together-2

[inland flax]

A real alpha male modder would blame the base game for any leak

[rapid pilot]

real

[mystic sable]

The only config I see is the doorstop config, the instructions I used said it was BepinEx config

[rapid pilot]

#1457932420882894901 message

[mystic sable]

Oh, I put it in there, I don't know why it's not now, thanks

[rapid pilot]

have you got the right bepinex installed?

[mystic sable]

As far as i'm aware I do. I tried both of these and neither seemed to work no matter what I did.

Currently using the top one

I just put the winhttp file in too, launched the game but still nothing

[rapid pilot]

https://github.com/BepInEx/BepInEx/releases

try 64

[mystic sable]

ok, thanks

Perfect, thanks. x64 worked

❤️

[rapid pilot]

np enjoy the mods lol

[shy pebble]

yeah, some sort of tailor made API + a web app seems like the best combo to me

[ebon dove]

anyone have the link for the vr mod?

[rapid pilot]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1267296334294159430 this?

[ebon dove]

yar, thanks

[rapid pilot]

progress?

volume warning

[mystic sable]

Thanks lol I will

[wary flint]

Should be super simple tbh

I don't have a simpit (sadly), but I wouldn't mind looking into it if there's some common standard / open API?

[manic marten]

there are apps like simhub that can turn game telemetry into instrument readings etc
and things like flypt mover that can turn said telemetry into motion rig commands

afaik they all just need some structured text via udp socket

(i may or may not be working on a force feedback plugin, ms sidewinder stick coming in the mail soon )

[regal viper]

I'm making a http server

I'm starting off with engine indications

[jolly solar]

okay so

i will have 4x 8 inch touchscreen HDMI displays on the front

and i will have to figure out to make them functional and have pages

[jolly solar]

something like this lmfao

and im all in to make this real

just one big problem, how do i make side cabinets?

[manic marten]

do u have 4x hdmi ports on your computer to plug them into something

[jolly solar]

thats what my dad asked

i have no idea how to do it

[manic marten]

they will come up as normal screens, I have one of those screens

used it originally to build a shoddy VR headset

[jolly solar]

yes i know

this way both game ui stuff and custom ui pages can be just made on pc

[manic marten]

i cut up an android phone vr case and glued the screen to it

[jolly solar]

i wanna make something like this

not strictly wood

also i have barely any space to my right so right cabinet will be thin and short, left cabinet thick and long

its not going to be aircraft specific, its like a mix of aircrafts

[manic marten]

are you good with descriptive geometry
so you can accurately sketch stuff
like in CAD or smth

you will need to do loads of planning and cutting

that's how its done

[jolly solar]

i use autodesk fusion

[manic marten]

perfect

[jolly solar]

for 3d printed stuff

and i am very good at it

well

[manic marten]

ya I learned the same way

[jolly solar]

lets say good enough for normal shapes

thank god im a student

[manic marten]

I use onshape now, because i'm no longer a student and I don't want to pay for it

[jolly solar]

yeah

expenshive

okay so

how do we do it?

i think we might just have tools at dad's workplace

ah wait this is perfect

can i somehow coat wood to look not like wood?

[manic marten]

of course

[jolly solar]

this is sick

i already have a seat too

hotas soon

[manic marten]

my desk is made of chipboard but looks like carbon fiber

[jolly solar]

i will use one of those "old" LG tvs

[manic marten]

its probably some vinyl wrap or plastic veneer

[jolly solar]

for display

okay

i think i might have another idea

actually no i said it before but

what if there was a mod that wrote data in a txt file in real time?

and simpit would use that data

[manic marten]

most simpits work like that ngl

they just don't write it into a file

do u know SimHub

[jolly solar]

no

im new into this thing

[manic marten]

so most sims

[jolly solar]

i have been making a modular cockpit design for my desk for a year

[manic marten]

either provide the data directly into shared memory where you can read it with another app

[jolly solar]

but only autodesk part

[manic marten]

or have a UDP port that you can connect to via localhost

and then they just dump telemetry data via network messages

which is kinda like "writing to a text file"

but its all done in memory

[jolly solar]

oh thats a good idea

but there needs to be a mod for that, right?

[manic marten]

writing to text files on the disk for this is not ideal for multiple reasons

[jolly solar]

simhub cant just take data itself

[manic marten]

yes

[jolly solar]

okay

that part will be tricky

[manic marten]

i mean you can write the telemetry to disk AND send to another app at the same time

[jolly solar]

because thats the only part where i need a volunteer to spend time

[manic marten]

but the app that drives the simpit shouldn't be reading the data from disk

it will be SLOOOOW

[jolly solar]

so where does it read?

[manic marten]

over network, or shared memory

over network is the simplest

[jolly solar]

i think ill have to worry about that much much later

we dont even have a button function list or cockpit frame design

which i will make myself

[manic marten]

that's how I'll be doing this for now as well
#1457932420882894901 message

because I have no desire to mess with the games built-in input system (and it doesn't support force feedback)

[jolly solar]

whats a force feedback?

[manic marten]

its when you drive in gran tourismo with a fanatec wheel
and you drive over a big bumpy sausage curb at 200mph
and the wheel jolts

[jolly solar]

ohH

i remember now

nah that shit aint in my budget

let alone 4 MFD costs 200$

raw price

will find out actual price

also i wont use anything built ready for this project

except

[manic marten]

don't want to sound like your dad but you should have checked if your computer can take that many screens 💀

[jolly solar]

no no

we should account everything

how to check how much ram i have?

dummy

2 sticks

surely enough

[manic marten]

task manager

performance tab

[jolly solar]

okay

[manic marten]

screenshot for 64gb flex

[jolly solar]

istg

cant take ss

[manic marten]

btw ram won't be a issue for this imo

[jolly solar]

oh okay'

what will

[rapid pilot]

id imagine cpu

[jolly solar]

cpu

[manic marten]

how many display outputs does your graphics card have 💀

you can't daisy chain those screens

[jolly solar]

CPU

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12600

Base speed:    3.30 GHz
Sockets:    1
Cores:    6
Logical processors:    12
Virtualization:    Enabled
L1 cache:    480 KB
L2 cache:    7.5 MB
L3 cache:    18.0 MB

Utilization    4%
Speed    4.66 GHz
Processes    297
Threads    5077
Handles    148563

i copide it

[manic marten]

so you will have to plug them into something

[jolly solar]

finally

[jolly solar]

4

we need 5

[manic marten]

ye

[jolly solar]

okay

the worst thing we can do is

3 mfd 🙁

i should be ashamed of myself

crying over 1 extra mfd

[rapid pilot]

im sure someones found a way to do it

[jolly solar]

should i go xtra overkill and get f-35 flight suit and a 3d printed helmet

[manic marten]

you can always just plug the screens into something else

[jolly solar]

i told dad we could use multi port that i found on the internet but he said that it shows same display

[manic marten]

and send data over network

[rapid pilot]

suit would be 12 more than the whole etup

[jolly solar]

bruh'

my ass so blind

my motherboad got 2 more display ports

[manic marten]

that might work if there is an integrated graphics chip in the cpu or on the motherboard

i5-12600 should have onboard graphics so

according to the intel ark page

[rapid pilot]

would an arduino be capable of transmitting the data to a screen i wonder

[manic marten]

you won't drive a 8" hdmi screen with an arduino in any meaningful way i'm p sure

but you could drive them with a pi or pi zero

[rapid pilot]

hmmm true

[manic marten]

here is my old DIY VR headset/digital NVG using one of those screens and a raspberry pi

[jolly solar]

Imma use Pi anyway

[manic marten]

you can connect 2 hdmi displays per PI

for pi 4/5 anyway, older ones idk

[rapid pilot]

would this affect performance or delay?

[manic marten]

they can run quake3 i think displaying a simple javascript webapp in a browser won't make them catch fire

[jolly solar]

also do we really need pi for display? i was looking to buy one of those that come in cases

so all i do is install it on the cockpit and plug in

[manic marten]

i think we should maybe take a step back
before you spend any more money

and get one mfd work...

[rapid pilot]

if you have the ports i dont see any reason you would

[manic marten]

and then take it from there...

[jolly solar]

true

but i havent spent any money yet

i have a budget of 1k though

im all in

[rapid pilot]

jesus

[jolly solar]

im not talking about spending every dollar of it

just saying that i could go up to that number

[rapid pilot]

ye of course but ive seen average sim setups at around the 450 mark

[jolly solar]

but im thinking about spending max 300$

[rapid pilot]

depends you never know you might not even like flying like that

[manic marten]

#1467925718276243703 message

I made a thread for this

[rapid pilot]

im sure you will but just a thought

[manic marten]

lets move the convo there

[jolly solar]

exclude rudder and hotas

[rapid pilot]

good idea

[manic marten]

so we can keep the general modding thread... for general modding

[wary flint]

[cyan drum]

my god 😭

[manic marten]

I'm not planning to get a new desktop rig atm because my life might turn upside down for a bit if I get accepted for master's, but at least by the time I can upgrade again hopefully hardware prices will come down to earth

[manic marten]

i think this will be usable for a while anyway

[wary flint]

Yeah, I'm very happy to have built my rig before prices went up

[manic marten]

and I have my old 5900x + 2080s rig for the simpit

[rapid pilot]

me with 16gb ram

[manic marten]

my laptop came with 16 originally, it would fill up from windows 11 and 2 chrome tabs 😭

i need to be able to run VMs on it so i got the max amount it can support

when ram was still cheap

[rapid pilot]

i got my laptop with 16 and awlays said ill upgrade the ram and never did becasue it was so cheap then ai centres

[shy pebble]

I bought 64 gigs one year ago, I had a hunch 🙏

For KSP lol, a heavily modded game eats RAM like its free

[rapid pilot]

bdarmoury has my heart

[shy pebble]

https://spacedock.info/mod/2643/Kerbal Telemetry

For inspiration 😇

[shy pebble]

Hell yeah, I used to play a heavily modded semi-realistic game

[rapid pilot]

multiplayer is so good constant 1v1's

[shy pebble]

My first taste of C# was fixing TAC-LS to work with the latest versions of Nertea's mods

[manic marten]

beyond uni coursework, for me the first thing was making a dumb piece of software to reconfigure serial ports in windows

i did everything in the completely wrong way

but it worked

XD

[shy pebble]

No complaining then 😇

[manic marten]

then we bought commercial software that does the same, the right way, and it could be automated so everyone was happy! 😄

[wary flint]

I'm still struggling with performance even with my rig 🥲

Oh, what KSP2 could have been. Hyped for Kitten Space Agency tbh.

[shy pebble]

I can't wait too ! Nothing can scratch that itch. I have such a love hate relationship with KSP, the highs are insane but so are the lows

[flint prairie]

Any interest in a mod that allows you to have friends/chosen players marked on the map in a different color? When playing with my friend I found it difficult to find him on the map to either form up or spectate. I've got a basic mock-up working. I also wasn't sure if any other mod already did this or something similar.

Ideally I'd like the game to have some kind of party/wing system. But I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that. Simple player icon coloring should suffice for now lol

[rapid pilot]

seems doable ill take a look but ive got a lot on atm

[flint prairie]

I'm mostly there with a working version. I was more asking to see if people would be interested in having it. I'll likely have a first version up in a couple hours. <3

[rapid pilot]

ahhh ok good good

[shy pebble]

Highly interested

[shy pebble]

I can test it, and ensure NOTT compat 🙂

[manic marten]

FFB for Nuclear Option coming soon

[inland flax]

That would be handy yes

Could ammunition shot by friends (and me) also be in their unique color?

[frigid tendon]

oh hey, i was doing something like this myself

i've also been working on a dedicated RWR display with threat ID

the directions aren't working correctly right now but i'm werkin on it

[rapid pilot]

crazy how the modding community just keeps going keep it up everyone

[thick ravine]

God this is so much better the what’s currently used for an RWR in game

[shy pebble]

dayum, that's pretty great

[frigid tendon]

there's supposed to be different RWRs for different aircraft, such as the cricket only giving you the radar bands of the contact

[chilly bluff]

Yissss

Goated stick

[civic ivy]

Hello, how do write my own mod?

[jolly solar]

thats sick

where to download

[frigid tendon]

werkin on it™

[jolly solar]

is it inspired by wt

reminds me off it

[manic marten]

most of what you need:

-familiarity with Unity C# programming (and Unity Editor if you intend to create custom game assets)
-able to use a decompiler like ILSpy or DNSpy, and able to read and understand code written by other people
-understand how to work with BepInEx framework

[civic ivy]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I have knowledge of C# and some familiarity with Unity Editor. (I wrote a couple small ksp mods.) I never had to decompile anything though. The BepInEx framework is also very new to me.

[frigid tendon]

i mean the WT one is just loosely inspired by irl rwrs

[civic ivy]

Guess I will start by getting to know the BepInEx framework

[manic marten]

there is no official mod support for the game

and sharing decompiled game code on the discord is not allowed

yet we soldier on 🫡

[manic marten]

https://docs.bepinex.dev/articles/dev_guide/plugin_tutorial/index.html

note that basically we all use BepInEx 5 at the present time

[civic ivy]

Thanks :). I will be sure not share any decompiled code here.

[frigid tendon]

https://github.com/lunaboards-dev/Nuclear-Option-Extensions Here's the repo

[waxen owl]

[waxen owl]

you dont download ram

[manic marten]

#1469341192733855806 message

[wary flint]

Love the name

[manic marten]

@tawny blade
let's continue here

so for example one of my simple mods looks like this for references:

and if you need to patch vanilla game code (this particular mod has no patches), you probably also want to reference the Harmony dll BepInEx comes with

[tawny blade]

yeah, so about what i said, it did NOT pertain to actually making a mod. i was having an issue with another mod, that i am now trying to sort, since it's not working right

[manic marten]

ah

which mods are you struggling with

[tawny blade]

wsoyap from the mod loader

jester sound pack

does it matter where the dll's are in general?

not mod specific, just generally

[manic marten]

i think it has some peculiarities about where the files need to go

[tawny blade]

yeah, definitely. im going to have a read through the instructions

again

[manic marten]

the way NOMM installs it might not work but afaik Nikkorap is working on an update for it

[kindred finch]

yeah i dont think he has added support for it yet

[manic marten]

i think it will either only work in its current state if the yappinator dll is in the plugins root
and you make an audio directory inside plugins and put the voicepacks in there
#1458041205735555072 message

[tawny blade]

i had a look at the structure on the github page

bepinex/plugins/
└─ WSOYappinator/
├─ WSOYappinator_version.dll
└─ audio/
├─ Prez/
│ ├─ eventPriorities.txt
│ └─ audiofiles.mp3
└─ Galaxy/
├─ eventPriorities.txt
└─ audiofiles.wav

but

it seems to download to addons

while still fuctioning this way

[manic marten]

ya just move them to audio/ manually for now

sorry about that

[tawny blade]

ye ye

thanks for your time

[manic marten]

you are welcome

[frigid tendon]

how do i go about making a thread for my mod?

[manic marten]

if you want to post your mods you need modder role

I can ask admins to grant you it

[frigid tendon]

sweet

[manic marten]

they aren't on rn but I sent a message

[frigid tendon]

thanks

[tawny blade]

may i ask what it's about?

[manic marten]

role added

[frigid tendon]

sweet, thanks

[manic marten]

is NOX your mod? I replied to the PR 🍻

[frigid tendon]

indeed it is

ah, yes, a case of me not being able to read what i wrote

lol

[manic marten]

also please make sure the json file name matches the mod id, sorry to be a pain! 😄

I need to improve the schema document

[frigid tendon]

eh?

[manic marten]

hmmm

i need to check why the validator is failing it

🫠

@frigid tendon haha I have a typo in the validator that runs on PRs 😭

2 minutes

[frigid tendon]

LOL feel that

[manic marten]

merged ❤️

[kindred finch]

is that of importance why?

[manic marten]

schema based json validation is case sensitive

ah

that

soz misread

[kindred finch]

ohh i get it

nvm all good

im guessing the filename of the mod.json mod specific manifest

[manic marten]

yeah I don't think I do it that way currently, but I prefer if they match in case we would want to do a lookup of metamanifests based on mod id

witouth actually parsing or reading the json

also goes with the theme of Neatly Organised! 🍪

if only my computer desk's surroundings was as neatly organised as the repo, I would be able to make videos without blurring the room XD

also learning moment for me: if you try to rerun a failed action job, but you changed the stuff the action runs since, it will still run on the old version, so if the source of the fail was the job itself and not its target, it will still fail 🫠

-# may or may not be related to the url property change from earlier today

[jolly solar]

god bless you

[shy pebble]

so I'm finally starting a new mod

I forgot how long it took to start a new environment

I'm exhausted already lol

[manic marten]

[rapid pilot]

[waxen owl]

should i release this mod where you can control aircraft in 3rd person using mouse only?

[shy pebble]

well obviously yes

this is what I've been working on

the connection goes both ways obv, so button presses register 🙂

the server is a simple python webapp that receives the current state from the game on every tac screen frame, the frontend is 95% vibe coded, I hate web dev

I see huge potential for this

as of now I only have a poc but I'm gonna flesh out the project

[ionic charm]

That's really cool

[shy pebble]

thanks Nikko !

I see so many possibilities

and since the server is a simple python command to run, I can package it all in one convenient executable

[manic marten]

I've been thinking about making something like this but now I don't have to! 😄 🍻

[wary flint]

How so?

[manic marten]

personally, in the past I would only work on .net projects or touch Visual Studio when I was modding this game, at least in the recent 2-ish years.

when I started spinning up new mod projects after exclusively working on NOBlackBox for a very long time, I also confused myself quite hard.

[wary flint]

Hm, I have a personal template I use these days, or I just copy over the csproj of a previous mod

[manic marten]

today is the first time I managed to crash the game with one of my mods

[shy pebble]

You're free to contribute once I get this project into shape 😉

[shy pebble]

I'm curious now lol

[manic marten]

I'm trying to get Force Feedback working, with the joystick acquired by directinput in the background, so its technically still controlling the game via Rewired, but the FFB stuff is handled with directinput, as Rewired doesn't support FFB

I think I'm just mismanaging the FFB effect creation and it crashes the game

I already had a working prototype but it was a separate console app getting signals via UDP socket from my bepinex plugin, to generate FFB effects. I want to consolidate, to get everything done inside the plugin.

[olive arch]

War Thunder controls in Nuclear Option

[shy pebble]

Good luck with that, I guess some sort of reverse engineering is required to make it work 🧐

[jolly solar]

i have a cool mod suggestion

a-19 turboprop to jet conversion

just delete the prop model and it will look good

[manic marten]

also make it 4 engine 😇

[floral ridge]

...Can someone please point me to a basic mod install guide? I've tried the configuration manager, Yappinator and TTS and none of them work. I did see the pinned bepinex guide and I did that correctly.

[tawny blade]

did you install bepInEx?

[chilly bluff]

nah bro, the propfan mill makes the brawler awesome

[shy pebble]

so I'm trying my hand at modding Stalker

https://tenor.com/view/cat-vietnam-war-horror-meme-gif-13338458502547662798

the pack (IWP + Cotz by DoctorX) is more or less perfect if not for the fact that NPCs don't do shit when at a campfire

so I have to figure out how the combined weight of a 2007 game + bootleg 64-bit russian engine + bootleg modpack translated from russian + custom story / quests mod works

[shy pebble]

try this 🙂
https://github.com/Combat787/NOMM

[manic marten]

also for all modders out there, if you would like to see your stuff in NOMM, here are the instructions for registering them

https://github.com/KopterBuzz/NOModManifestTesting/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#how-to-add-your-nuclear-option-mod-to-nomnom

(also please note that just because we require a github release for the registry, it doesn't necessarily mean you must open source your mod! you can have releases on github without uploading the source code)

we use github as a back end because it makes it possible to create a robust and reliable solution to provide an always up-to-date mod registry with almost zero cost

we don't need to maintain any server infrastructure etc, I just pay the 5 bucks for github premium and all the back-end automation runs off my monthly allowance

[inland flax]

Finally done with my fuckass exams

Time to get back on learning stuff

[rapid pilot]

me tryna learn transmissions fr

[inland flax]

So i'm currently trying to wait for when the local player spawn in an aircraft, and i feel like the way i'm doing that is pretty dirty.

->

To wait for a new local identity i have to use static methods and then the way i wait for the local aircraft is by using a singleton to go back to a non static way, is there a more proper way to do that ?

private static  void OnLocalClientChanged()
        {
            Player player;
            bool success = GameManager.GetLocalPlayer(out player);
            if (success)
            {
                

                PosSaver instance = PosSaver.GetIntsance();
                instance.WaitForAirframe(player);
            }
            else
            {
                Logger.LogError($"Failed to fetch local player!");
            }
        }

[wary flint]

Server mod, or client mod?

If server mod, I'm working on some events for this in Nuclei

[inland flax]

Client

But tbf eventually i'll need both

Are coroutines the only way?

[wary flint]

Couldn't you just patch the spawn method using Harmony?

At least I believe that's what I'm doing, I'd have to check

Do a simple postfix patch

[inland flax]

Most likely but i'm still a newbie i'm not sure where or how to find which method handles respawn

Didnt find it in the player class

[lilac oyster]

I wish we had a mod similar to the unrestricted weapon mod. But like restricted a bit. Like only hard point weapons could go on hard points and only internal weapons (that fit) could go in weapon bays.

[storm arrow]

I mean, you can still do that via mission editor afaik, yk?

Making it unrestricted sounds like the hard part in there, the mission editor can pretty much do the rest with restrictions.

[lilac oyster]

oh really?

[lilac oyster]

and err.. no. i dont know? if that enought mod?

[storm arrow]

This is what I meant ^

Given that all mounts should be in this dropdown menu, I don´t see while it shouldn´t work with the mod. (I could be wrong though)

Sure, it´s a per-mission thing but better than nothing anyways

[lilac oyster]

ahh ok!

[rigid elk]

Hello there! 🫡

I´m a not-so-recent fan of Nuclear Option that happened to find out about this server very recently. So far I had an absolute blast playing the vanilla version, and when I discovered about the modding scene (alongside the livery customization), I was left mind-blown. I´ve heard surprisingly good reviews of the community, and I can certainly check by myself that the quality of not few of these creations is antonishing.

Introduction and whatnot aside, I am making a separate independent project at the same time (as well as the always present real-life stuff that keeps me busy) and I realised I will end up using several things on it that surprisingly enough seem to be present on the modding section of NO, and since I like the game and would love to make some mods to tweak it ever further, I came here to get started on the matter as well as packing a handful of questions (probably rookie-grade ones): Is there any place of reference I should go to check how to learn this? How do I get started? What would be the FAQ for mods, this channel or #ask-for-help?

(Also, since I´m on the topic of asking questions: what about other fan-made content like art, videos or manuals, where would that go?)

[manic marten]

there are other channels for art/videos
#community-artwork
#screenshots-and-videos
etc
for livery creation
#livery-creation-and-discussion
for mission editing #1130830373937492050

for modding beyond the scope of liveries and missions, there is no FAQ atm

modding custom content beyond the above for the game isn't officially supported yet

however, since its a unity game, you can mod it in the same way other unity games can be modded

[rigid elk]

So... if I look how to mod Unity games in general, I should find how to deal with this one in specific?

I was thinking something EXTREMELY simple for my first time too, something like making the laser beams invisible like in real life or whatnot

-# By the way, thanks a lot for all the channel links, I noted them down 😁 📝

[manic marten]

essential skills:
familiarity with unity c# programming
ability to use a decompiler to read the game code (like ILSpy/DNSpy)
knowledge of a unity modding framework (we use bepinex)
knowledge how to use unity asset ripper to be able to look at game files, if necessary

[rigid elk]

Roger, I´ll see what I can do with that. Thanks a lot! 🫡

[wary flint]

I'd recommend Rider as code editor. It's (imho) the best C# editor, and it has a great built-in decompiler.

If you have questions, just shoot them in this chat. People will help you out.

[manic marten]

i was very close to install rider today

[wary flint]

You really really should, tbh

[manic marten]

maybe ill try it on the weekend

[wary flint]

The entire Jetbrains suite of IDE's is phenomenal imo

[rigid elk]

Gotcha! I found a guide on Steam for modding another Unity game and I was fairly surprised at how quickly I understood the concepts. Probably what's going to smack me the most is actually writing/making the mod, but setting things up isn't obscenely hard one I figure out sort of how to do it. 😅

[wary flint]

And Rider recently went fully free for non-commercial projects. So you have the full feature set

[manic marten]

idk what happened but in the middle of the day visual studio decided that .net 8 will no longer be found on my pc so a bunch of my stuff wasnt building

[rigid elk]

Also, I have Visual Studio 2026 (the purple one), is it worse than Rider? 'cause I'm slightly more used to this one, I used it in the past to make some VERY light C++ coding

[wary flint]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but using an LLM to help guide you through the process works pretty well from what I've seen others do.

[wary flint]

Is it still on your path?

[manic marten]

llm can give you ready to go bepinex plugin code for simple gemeric things

[rigid elk]

If I have to, I ask it to quick-reference stuff in a better fashion than Google has. But I'm scared of what ChatGPT could say about Nuclear Option modding

(Aka completely making up stuff lol)

Ah, one thing before I forget to ask:

[wary flint]

They both work. I just prefer Rider since it's specifically made for C#.

[manic marten]

idk another bunch of stuff was broken in my vs so reinstalled it and retargeted my .net 8 apps to .net 10

8 will be dropped in november anyway

[wary flint]

GitHub Copilot is pretty great at being able to use the decompiled references in Rider, actually.

[rigid elk]

Just "how" capable is modding? As in, by looking at the concept, it seems like anything doable by conventional Unity dev means is also possible through substantial modding work

[wary flint]

Probably because the decompiler is built-in and is exposed in the same way as regular editor tabs.

[rigid elk]

In NO's case, how far would that go?

[manic marten]

there was a .net 8 security patch today so i just autoblame dr nadella

[wary flint]

You can do anything and everything.

[rigid elk]

...atta boy... the possibilities...!

[wary flint]

Harmony allows you to replace full methods if you'd like, so theoretically you could just hook into the launch method and write an entirely different game.

[rigid elk]

WHAT

[wary flint]

So, y'know, you can do anything you want, really.

[rigid elk]

That's insanely powerful, my my

Turns out the 2 birds one stone strategy might be more handy than I expected with this...

[wary flint]

It's because C# compiles to an intermediate language that's interpreted on the fly. So you can edit that IL really easily

And a bunch of other technical mumbo-jumbo

Anyway, it's super powerful, and the basic concepts aren't too complicated if you're used to programming / technically inclined.

A shortlist of the basics of patching:

• You can run something before a method runs (and optionally prevent the method from running, based on a condition)
• You can run something after a method runs (and modify what it returns, if it returns anything. E.g. a method that does a + b, you could modify to then add + c to its result)
• You can modify the intermediate language that the method is compiled to, so e.g. switching out a value for something else

Combine these principles, and the world is your oyster

[rigid elk]

(It's past 1 AM tho, I should get some sleep and get at it tomorrow) 🙏

I'll probably upload a test edit I made on #screenshots-and-videos by then, start setting up the BepInEx shebang, searching info like a madman, completing real life stuff... it's going to be an interesting day.

I will most likely ask a couple of things here to understand the basics lmao

And hey, thanks for the support, it truly means a lot! 😄

[wary flint]

I've had some pretty great results playing around with Codex 5.2 through the GitHub Copilot plugin in Rider btw. If you're interested.

[rigid elk]

(Oh, and liveries. I need to look at that. And make my Dash-1 and... wow, this list is getting too long XD )

[wary flint]

Since you can just attach the decompiled code as context for the LLM, it is actually aware of the correct types / methods / logic.

[manic marten]

im using claude a but ill probably cancel the sub

might try that next

[wary flint]

Claude Opus is pretty lit

[manic marten]

last few days it was incredibly useless

[wary flint]

We selfhost most models at the company I work at

[wary flint]

The new one? Released yesterday?

[manic marten]

ah is there a new one

[wary flint]

Yup, pretty impressive too

[manic marten]

idk i was marathoning something all weekend

[wary flint]

Keep in mind the longer you keep a session going, the worse it can handle the growing context

[manic marten]

maxed out my token quota twice

[wary flint]

There's some ways to handle it, like having it summarize its context to condense it

[manic marten]

and then this morning i redid everything without ai in an hour and it actually works

like the amount of learning i could take away from the experience was basically: claude output demonstrated every possible way how not to do the particular thing

im doing something pretty niche though

at this point the only thing i trust the ai with is ongui methods because im too lazy

[kindred finch]

you just need to explain every step to the ai to the point where you might as well have coded it yourself

[manic marten]

me: explains everything to the ai down to which libraries and which methods to use
ai: outputs wrong math and fake functions
me: these things dont exist
ai: oh sorry you are correct

a few rounds later: rate limit

[kindred finch]

well

yes

[wary flint]

Hm, I don't agree with that assessment. Though it's a different way of working, and you need to know how to word things, how to provide proper context, and what models are good at what.

[kindred finch]

true

for small refactors and additions its pretty good

[wary flint]

I'd argue it's pretty great at larger features too, as long as you prompt it properly

E.g. using plan mode for codex, or implementing tests & interfaces first in order to give it a proper contract.

[kindred finch]

but today for exampel i just wanted to see how ai would implement having the option to have a patches section in the mod it did kinda eork in the end but as the part of the app that got modifed needed to work with the rest it broke state and uninstalling so yeah i think i need to do that manually 😭

[wary flint]

If your pre-existing code is of good quality, and you can outline your architecture & design plans, it does a pretty solid job too.

[kindred finch]

to logical just give ai code twll what to do as vaguely explained as possible pray

[wary flint]

You need tests.

[kindred finch]

while true i dont wanna

:)

[wary flint]

Then it's not the LLM's fault

[kindred finch]

i never said it was i only implied it

well i have other ideas now anyways

better ones

[wary flint]

If it has no way to verify behaviour (through tests and documentation), it can't know what you intended with the original feature, and what deviation might be okay or not okay.

[kindred finch]

probably want to split up disabledplugins and patches fklders

[manic marten]

yeah thats a very different mindset and in a professional environment probably works better

for my chaotic throw things at the wall until it starts sticking, then refactor so it wont be a pain to work on, including llm as a major contributor tends to just cause pain most of the time

[wary flint]

I've found it's a good sparring partner though. Mock up some design ideas and have it give feedback on potential blind spots.

[manic marten]

but in these cases, i often work on something that is also new to me

[wary flint]

In your case, I'd adopt a style where you ask it to spar with you for ideas, and provide prototypes.

Works well ad-hoc

Don't ask it to do entire features, but do tell it what you intend to do, what your current idea is, and whether it has any alternatives and any concerns with your idea.

[manic marten]

i knkw that

my current gripe with claude the root cause is that it is incapable of

little things

like a syntactically correct force feedback effect struct...

[waxen owl]

[wary flint]

Claude scores pretty well on programming last I heard?

How are you using it? Does it have access to your codebase directly, or are you prompting it through e.g. a browser?

[manic marten]

also every single time i start a new chat on ffb topic, it invents a new incorrect way regarding how the coordinate system works for 2d ffb effect parameters

its actually hilarious

[manic marten]

i used the installed agent originally amd seemed quite effective. i wrote a class library with it to interact with the nomnom prototype, one function at a time.

but that was also quite trivial stuff

[waxen owl]

evil agent ai

[manic marten]

its great for unity monobehaviour boilerplate though

[wary flint]

Seems like it's not keeping the context history properly? What model is it exactly?

[manic marten]

its the whichever is set as default, gimme a minute

sonnet 4.5

I'll try new opus when I feel like I can gamble a couple of hours again 😄

the skill issue factor might be agaisnt my chances though fr

im always a late adopter with new tech

[wary flint]

Ah, Sonnet is pretty bad iirc?

[manic marten]

maybe thats my problem

ill check out opus 🍻

[wary flint]

Or maybe I'm misremembering

I do know the new Opus model apparently beats Codex 5.2, though Codex 5.3 was released as well this week

Codex 5.2 is pretty great though, from personal experience.

[elfin quartz]

maybe ill be able to create a thread for this, but if anyone wants to screw around with custom maps I created a loader that allows for creating maps with all of the features of a real map, like hangars, cities, etc (doing that is quite complicated, but possible)
Will eventually have ways to use ingame assets like the terrain material (go go gadget grass) and factionhq's for music support, maybe references to in game music as well. Biggest issue is having to setup stuff like hangars manually since you can't just copy them from the game..

https://github.com/MinecrackTyler/NOMapLoader

also an ocean map included, with nothing on it. If nothing else, should be pretty shrimple to just add custom terrain meshes like that other mod does, but not by pasting it over top of heartland

[manic marten]

hey, can I put this in #1469341192733855806 ?
also asked admins to give you modder role

[rigid elk]

Purely out of curiosity (since I'm obviously not going to do this first) but, knowing about what you told me yesterday about modding capabilities, could I hypothetically get my hands on the original blender models for planes (or vehicles in general) and make changes to them?

Because my biggest long-term goal as a modder in NO is eventually making clickable/fully interactible cockpits, and maybe make variants of the available planes so you could find something like the FS-12A or FS-12C

Not just by naming convention, the C would be upgraded in some sort of way

(In my non-NO project I'll need to know how to make these interactible vehicles with interiors, and I'm utterly clueless at what sort of wizardry it requires, namely on the modeling aspect)

[manic marten]

there is an app called asset ripper that can export the unity project from the game files and then you can peek around

[rigid elk]

Peek and modify, or just peek?

Also for some reason it sounds familiar, is it the one that comes in the Audio Changer mod tutorial?

[manic marten]

I don't know that tutorial but probably yes.

I don't do a lot of asset-oriented modding, but if you look at the above example for that map loader mod, you get the idea that it's not quite simple to do it right
https://github.com/MinecrackTyler/NOMapLoader

[rapid pilot]

yes asset studio is similar it allows viewing in game assets audio models etc and extracting them

[silk pike]

What exactly is the difference between this and the many other modloaders here?

Or is this a minimum installation and other modloaders improve upon it further?

[manic marten]

your question is quite ambiguous

[silk pike]

Okay then, let me rephrase; what is "Bepinex" and how does it compare to "Yellow Mod Manager"?

[rigid elk]

Afaik, BepInEx is the thing all mods so far use to work without altering the composition of the game's base code, whereas the YMM is... well, that, a mod manager.

One makes mods work, the other organises them.

(I might perfectly be wrong at this but I'd love to know to see if I'm learning stuff correctly)

[manic marten]

bepinex is the mod loader framework for Unity engine

and mod manager apps will do these for you

• installs bepinex
• download and install mods

[wary flint]

You can probably dump the Unity assets, yeah. There's programs for that.

[wary flint]

Yup, this one

[wary flint]

BepInEx is a (very popular) general Unity modloader. Considering it's popular, it has good documentation, and a large community, it's a good choice to use in general for Unity mods tbh.

[silk pike]

Is it normal for the loading screen to take minutes with QoL and BepInEx loaded?

[manic marten]

i think so

[wary flint]

Minutes? Probably not

BepInEx itself has no impact

Not sure what QoL does, but if you've verified with & without and see a noticeable difference, maybe report it.

[silk pike]

Yeah, ended up needing to update

[shy pebble]

HOLY SHIT

that's insane

this community is cooking, it's insane

btw, what do you nerds recommend for reading big log files ?

I've used log expert until now but I dislike the lack of dark mode, the fact that I can't seem to filter out some lines and its complicated IMO parsing method

[elfin quartz]

yeah go ahead, and thanks!e
also ill upload releases as a single file so it works

[lilac oyster]

how much do you recon it would cost to get a custom plane mod made?

[manic marten]

1.5 kidneys and a goat

[lilac oyster]

do we think it would be more than a car

[ionic charm]

Aircraft are usually more expensive than cars, so i guess so

[manic marten]

the goat needs to be special

not all breeds of goat are appropriate for the ritual

[lilac oyster]

"the ritual"

oh god

can like a sheep work'

if i like

take its wool first

[ionic charm]

Sheep are used for a different purpose, imagine a swimming pool fit for an aircraft

[lilac oyster]

so ive made a 3d model of one of my planes. now how hard is it to put it in the game?

[untold raven]

hey so im super new to modding and i really wanna start with nuclear option but im not really sure what i should try to start with as a novice

[cyan drum]

depends

[lilac oyster]

im on about dead simple. copy an original plane and just replace the phisical model of the plane copy

wait... FELLOW FLYOUT PLAYER!!!

that plane is from flyout

ehhh its prolly to much hastle.

[silk pike]

Fallout did not have jets like this

[wary flint]

• Learn the fundamentals of C# & programming concepts (classes, methods, members, types)
• Get acquainted with an IDE (code editor) and a decompiler -- I'd recommend Rider since it has both, and is industry standard
• Go through existing NO mods to get a feel for how people mod the game / what they've found
• Decompile NO and get acquainted with the codebase
• Start with a simple mod idea

[rapid pilot]

i dont think you read that right

[tawny blade]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[waxen owl]

https://giphy.com/gifs/glmRyiSI3v5E4

[dapper jay]

hello, does anyone use yellowcake?

[stoic tangle]

Model swap is easy

[dapper jay]

is there a mod manager alternative to yellowcake that actually works

[manic marten]

fyi it won't download from mod manager because the archive is .tar.gz which is currently unsupported

[frigid tendon]

i was gonna ask about this

about tgz files

but that confirms what i suspected

though i assume that's a mod manager thing more than anything

[manic marten]

its a mod manager thing

from the back-end perspective its irrelevant because its just a big blob of metadata

[frigid tendon]

yeah lol

[manic marten]

to point the manager app at things

[dapper jay]

do i need to launch from the mod manager if i have mods installed? or can i launch from steam

[hearty jackal]

What if I dont have the confg folder here

[tawny blade]

Retry

[hearty jackal]

Like install again?

[dapper jay]

ok cool

[hearty jackal]

Installing again didnt work

[dapper jay]

same issue. no config folder

[hearty jackal]

Even the previous version is the same

Ill try the BepInEx thro Thunderstore, if it will work for me

[manic marten]

mate

your browsing the zip file

which mod manager r u using

[hearty jackal]

I extracted it and it still didnt show the config folder

[manic marten]

it won

t

everything besides core dir

will be generated after u launch the game

(Ignore the Pandemonium dir, that's where i used chuck stuff when I don't want it to load)

[hearty jackal]

Why does the guides tell this

[hearty jackal]

Ill try than

[manic marten]

which zip and from where

[hearty jackal]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1urOV_tUjDjmmL3B4740BFOrl_KZZ5ZCnVNgXXUxK_DI/edit?tab=t.0

[manic marten]

ok

so

do as it says

then run the game

and then you will find the config file

[hearty jackal]

Ok, it works. Thanks

[manic marten]

or even better
https://github.com/Combat787/NuclearOptionModManager/releases/latest
download this

[hearty jackal]

Guide confused me

[manic marten]

and it installs bepinex for you

[manic marten]

@oak whale there is a catch 22 in your guide

[oak whale]

Oh

I'll fix in 10min

Thanks for the catch

❤️

[hearty jackal]

Damn

[manic marten]

config won't exist until after first launch
technically you can also just
create a config folder
put an empty BepInEx.cfg in it
and write
HideManagerGameObject = true

into it

yourself and then just save it

when BepInEx Configuration handler checks for config files it will just pick up any pre-existing correct values

and regenerates the rest of the config with default values. if any are missing

[oak whale]

I could swear that I mentioned that the game needs to be run once, but seems like I either didn't or accidentally deleted it. 😅

[manic marten]

"we accidentally the version control"

[oak whale]

Alright

It should be fixed

I am half asleep, so if there are any other issues, do let me know ❤️

[lilac oyster]

oh really?

[lilac oyster]

and err how would i go about doing that?

[daring locust]

import a mesh into unity, build it as an assetbundle, include that bundle as an embedded resource in a plugin, and swap the mesh and material of an existing object with the bundle

[lilac oyster]

sounds.... very simple D:

ehhh... i need to fix my model first then i can try that. thanks though! (ima spend multiple hours of my life trying to get this to work!!)

[elfin quartz]

linux moment, will fix

[kindred finch]

actually i think it now would work using the new library for unziping

[lilac oyster]

Okay, now time to get this bad boy in the game! and also add engines... and well.. thers alot of things i still need to do....

oh and re add the cockpit

because well

it got removed

[lilac oyster]

need to get from this to this

anyways im to tired to do anymore. gn chat

[flat lotus]

when u just bring a manpad with u XD during ur flight ! XD

just wait til I turn my agm's into ships XD

screw it lets just ducktape a battleship under me and gbu dropthem

[rapid pilot]

would anybody use a thread for sharing old code for recycling or usefull tips for making mods like player only or ai blockers etc?

[wary flint]

Most NO projects are open-source, so you can just review those tbh

[halcyon notch]

All of my mods have their source code linked in the first post

[manic marten]

all my mods are open source as well but I don't have any patterns for blocking MP or blocking ai from doing stuff

[rigid elk]

Working on a little something to help the modding community 🫡

Will upload as soon as I get it ready! Might take a while, but I´ve got my hands on it. Shout-out to "George" for teaching me the basics of how this worked too, by the way. (He´s a genius lol)

[wary flint]

Lmk if you want any proofreading / advice. I've modded a dozen Unity games at this point :P

[rigid elk]

I sure will! I´ll be sharing it here precisely to get it ready for corrections and additions, plus I plan on updating it consistently as time goes on to support the latest iterations/findings of the modding community.

In fact, although this was an idea I wanted to discuss on here before adding it on the manual, I was considering adding a section on the manual with the latest findings of the modding community so others can learn what does what instead of having to reverse-engineer from scratch.

But George obviously commented to me that "peeking" into other people´s mods is something ill-advised, which makes total sense, and I´m not sure to what extent it´d be an infringement of "looking into the original game code without permission", so I´m willing to scrap the idea entirely if that was the case.

Just thought on commenting it first since, given my inexperience, it´d be better to ask the wizzos on the matter first instead of running around aimlessly and taking decisions like that on my own.

[rapid pilot]

ye its a tough one most mods are open source i mean i guess with credit it would be ok? for me atleast but everyones different i suppose

[manic marten]

credit would be nice if you are using anyone's code for training

[rigid elk]

Ah yeah, each section will feature a epilogue featuring who made the mod and what mod did said "finding" come from

I´d never voluntarily not-credit someone for their hard work, that´s just a jerk move

[manic marten]

ah from the context of the guide

sorry

did the same thing again dropped in the room didn't read up and vomited a reply XD

[rapid pilot]

to be fair i've had ugg write detailed descriptions on how i did certain things just incase anyone ever asked and ive got build with descriptions built in

[rigid elk]

I thought the GitHub ones are the only ones I could try on my own, unless the mod himself comes to me and tells me he lets me do it

[manic marten]

but ya excited to read the guide

[rigid elk]

LMAO no worries, happens to the best of us XD

[rigid elk]

I took some time on designing it to be aesthetically pleasing too, taking captures in NO is such a hobby 😂

[rapid pilot]

"me knowing how to mod the game well now still reading the guide anyway"

to be fair it will be usefull for ugg

[rigid elk]

LOL, that means a lot though, thankies!

LGLove

[rigid elk]

It´s meant to! It´ll be ideally part of a series, so there will be another for livery creation and general gameplay stuff

(Each one being their own guide, not one big clusterf-ck)

As much as I like the "Did you know" section, I´m not spamming the arrow for an hour XD

Oh, I have to upload the edit I made ages ago as well on #community-artwork too, how could I forget 😅

(This multitasking is killing me, I swear)

[rapid pilot]

so real

[wary flint]

Peeking into other mods is perfectly fine if they're open-source. Don't want people to check out your code? Don't open-source. Especially if they're using licenses like MIT/GPLv3/...

I don't think anyone who open-sources their code would mind that people learn from it? Seems opposite of what open-source stands for tbh.

Obviously the licenses are clear on how to credit people / what is permitted usage of the code, so you just have to adhere to that.

[rigid elk]

I´m already at 1.3k words 💀

[flat lotus]

The map network manager. And the ai parent into a core and all the plane parts then the physics layer. (Broad example)

[frigid tendon]

yeah i just have my mod on github (in a mess of a state, but still there)

[manic marten]

I'm not sure I understand how that relates as a reply?

i mean I roughly know how the game works, but I don't have any code examples that could be used to learn how to block a mod from working in MP

that's what I meant

[wary flint]

I mean, you have 2 options:

• Block playing multiplayer
• Disable functionality when in multiplayer

Both will need to patch the connect / lobby methods (can't recall the best hook, but you get the idea)

Option 2 is a bit harder / requires you to design your mod in a way that functionality can be toggled / hotloaded

[wary flint]

Nuclei redesign progress ✨

[ionic charm]

Looking at others code is perfectly fine imo, as long as it doesn't devolve into this situation

[rigid elk]

Yup, I´m 100% not doing that lmao

[wary flint]

Sure, but that's what licensing is for. Plenty of open-source licenses which enforce redistribution under the same license + credit. Breaching it means it's a pretty simple DMCA claim

[rigid elk]

Bruh, right as I was making the guide 🤣

At least I got to be the first like on a video ever, that´s cool 🙂

Anyways, here´s what I´ve done so far of the guide. Asides of the index (which I´ll add later on) this is more or less the style I´m aiming for, so you people let me know if I´m going on the right track or it´s better to change something.
I haven´t advanced much, just specified on how to install BepInHex and the ConfigurationManager to play with mods. Next part would be how to install those mods with an example (and important remark on checking the instructions of each mod in a per-case basis, and after that the section of setting up the environment to work in mods will come in.

[flat lotus]

2 dumps for u

[kindred finch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVFHZCXEnc4 absolute cinema

[manic marten]

thanks, but please be mindful about what you post as #rules prohibit sharing game code

[manic marten]

bro casually ignored noblackbox

[lilac oyster]

I wish someone made a tutorial on how to make vehicle mods for NO

[rigid elk]

If the coding is made open source on a mod that does so, it´ll make it to my guide eventually.

[lilac oyster]

Awsome! Because I've finished my plane model now (minus cockpit glass, engines and interior)

[rapid pilot]

I’d go ask in the 2082 discord I’m sure they can point you in the right direction

[lilac oyster]

Yea! Ok

[dapper jay]

Make one for liveries please I beg you 😢

[rigid elk]

I will, no worries

Planned guides are for modding first, then liveries, then the game itself

With the first 2 taking utmost priority

[dapper jay]

Thank you

[wary flint]

Are you writing the modding guide already?

[rigid elk]

@wary flint Uhh... well yeah... it says it in here pretty clearly 😅

I uploaded a barebones version so you can see the style I´m going for, I´ve not advanced much (around 7 pages done already, cover included and index not available yet) but I´ve already explained how to install BepInEx and the Configuration Manager

[dapper jay]

Just curious, for the livery guide, are you thinking of doing instructions for both blender and SP or just one or the other?

Makes no difference to me, i just thought I’d ask

[rigid elk]

What would be SP?

In any case the guides are meant to have the biggest coverage possible, so the most likely answer would be both if either somebody walks me through the explanation or I figure it out on my own.

I already ""know"" the blender one (sort of?) so I´ll probably start by that one though

[wary flint]

Sorry, I meant modding as in mod-development.

[rigid elk]

Ohh, you mean building the environment?

That´s the next part after I write a quick detour optional part on installing NOMM

(Since it´s fairly useful on modding later on, and confortable to use overall)

[dapper jay]

Substance painter

[rigid elk]

...wasn´t that in Blender?

[dapper jay]

Uhhh I don’t think so

[rigid elk]

I may be saying utter savagery there, it has been a hideous day for me so I may be mixing things up accidentally

[dapper jay]

It’s an Adobe product

[rigid elk]

OOOH that Substance Painter, yeah

[dapper jay]

But a lot of people here have been saying it’s way easier to learn than blender

[rigid elk]

I saw there was a drawn sketch, so yeah, I can probably put that in the guide

[dapper jay]

Cool, thank you

[rigid elk]

I´ll ping the creator of it just in case

Wouldn´t want to use his work without telling them. Also I´ll (later, alongside the index) make a credits section to list everyone I use for referencing in the guides.

Be it somebody that teaches me directly, a mod mentioned on the game or something else: if it shows in the guide at any point, I´m putting it there.

@dapper jay Is there any other known method I should know of for the liveries thing btw, since we are on the topic?

Asides of Blender and SP

[dapper jay]

I haven’t seen any talked about here. Just the two

Blender and SP

[rigid elk]

Roger, noted then! 📝 👌

[halcyon notch]

https://github.com/TYKUHN2/AtomicFramework/blob/b74ae5dc96272b3a69db59ac5b2831d6144cf035/AtomicFramework/LoadingManager.cs#L174

[rapid pilot]

I believe there is already a livery guide no?

[rigid elk]

There are several, but in the same fashion as the BepInHex installation part on the modding guide. The idea is to keep them centralized and updated over time to keep this guides as a go-to reference instead of looking at scattered pieces of (very valuable) knowledge around.

But the fact that there´s already existing small tutorials on how to do that is why I´m giving priority to what lacks a guide the most, which would be modding

Then liveries, and then the game itself because... hell, if you don´t know how to play the game, you might be cooked 💀

[rapid pilot]

for the bepinex installation part you may have already done these PLEASE explain the difference between 86 64 bit versions i've had 100 dm's and comment reports about the mods not working only for them to be using the 86 version

[rigid elk]

Uhh... well, you can check for yourself if I did a good job on that! It´s already on the uploaded version 😅

I hope I did it well, used images as well. But I can add further notes explaining the differences if you think it´s necessary 🙂

It´d be this section!

[halcyon notch]

Nuclear Option is a 64-bit game IIRC so only the win_x64 version is relevant

[rigid elk]

Added the subsection just in case!

[manic marten]

mate

nobody runs 32bit anymore

😄

if you do, nuclear option probably won't run

[rigid elk]

But they still dowload it, according to him

[manic marten]

because its 64 bit

[rigid elk]

Plus yk, people always have the weirdest of doubts, a little addendum won´t hurt

[manic marten]

too much information can also confuse the user

[rigid elk]

Although you´re more than right, a x32 with NO would probably start burning or something

[rigid elk]

That´s why I made it a note and not on the main block of information, you can just skip it if you already know the answer lol

[manic marten]

maybe i just doubt avg reading comprehension ability of people too much because of occupational trauma

-# fun fact about msinfo32 btw, its a 32bit app so if you use it to check available ram/vram it won't give you an accurate number

[halcyon notch]

NuclearOption.exe is a 64-bit binary and will not execute on a 32-bit copy of Windows

PE \0 \0 \64 \86

[rigid elk]

...please don´t make me add that too on the note, every time I update something behind the last line I have to realign the entire freaking document 😭 🙏

Sigh... well, f-ck it, I´m gonna change it anyways, that´s an important note jokes aside lol

[halcyon notch]

And the linux copy runs under Proton so the linux version of BepInEx is also irrelevant. Only win_x64 matters. The patcher just patches the game code to directly load BepInEx

[ionic charm]

just get this version, full stop https://github.com/BepInEx/BepInEx/releases/download/v5.4.23.5/BepInEx_win_x64_5.4.23.5.zip

[rigid elk]

So under any circumstance people only need to dowload the x64 version?

No matter what?

[halcyon notch]

Correct

[rigid elk]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-gta-sa-cj-gta-again-gif-20425950

Time to edit a good chunk of that step... I´ll have some breakfast and get on it 👌

[waxen owl]

just go to settings and about my pc

[rigid elk]

That could work too, but the aesthetics of the settings tab tend to vary more over time/versions of Windows whereas the hotkey is and will likely always be there

[rigid elk]

Alright, second version in the way! Updated to include the convenient changes to the BepInEx dowload section

I´m working now on explaining the manual installation of a single mod without the Mod Manager, and then the mod development setup section will come next.

[halcyon notch]

The consistent typo of BepInHex suggests bad autocorrect lol

[rigid elk]

I can confirm it´s hideous, lmao

Fixing it now 👌

Bruh 13 times, Word is worse than I thought 😭

[rapid pilot]

i think people see 86 and just go "hmmm that numbers bigger so it must be better"

[rigid elk]

...as a part-computer engineer to-be, this is embarrasing to say... but I can confirm that was my first thought back in the day when I first saw it 🥀

[rapid pilot]

hahahaha happens too the best of us

[halcyon notch]

The really funny thing is in certain situations 32-bit is actually better

Potentially even faster.*
-# *unlikely

[rigid elk]

Although there´s one thing I don´t understand: who the HELL changed the notation and why

As in, if it´s x32 it´s x32

Who had the smartass idea of naming it x86

That´s confusing tbh

[halcyon notch]

The x86 architecture was defined by the Intel 8086.

[rigid elk]

So x32 and x86 are different architectures for 32-bit based systems?

[halcyon notch]

It was then succeeded by 80186, 80286 and x86 was born

The 8086 was 16-bit IIRC.

[rigid elk]

💀

That´s trilobite-grade tech right there

[halcyon notch]

When they added 32-bit mode, they added backwards compatible features. Then when AMD64 was invented, they had compatibility with 32-bit mode

IIRC modern processors still init into 16-bit mode, but BIOS immediately upgrades to 32-bit. UEFI I think then sometimes upgrades to 64-bit.

[rapid pilot]

russian grandmas were weaving this fr

[manic marten]

half the silicon at this point is probably for backwards compatibility

[rigid elk]

I love and hate the fact that I learn more here than in 3 years of CS degree

[halcyon notch]

Honestly, the only reason we have x64 is probably because we called it AMD64 and Intel hated it

[rigid elk]

I hate it because it proves how useless it is, but I love it because I learn so much and it´s available pretty much anytime

[manic marten]

the only thing I learned at university is how to learn

[rigid elk]

Oh so you folks learned something new? 💀
Here not even that 😭

[halcyon notch]

Also fun fact, in 16-bit (and maybe 32-bit, slightly rusty on x86) you can use Segment registers, but accessing them in 64-bit mode is an error (or they don't do anything I don't remember.)

[rigid elk]

Huh! Interesting, for sure 🤔

[halcyon notch]

In university I learned how to prove my professors wrong.

[rapid pilot]

there is a term for this i cant remember but it was something like everyone learns from the same book no new ideas are made learn from a man that couldnt afford the book and youll truly learn or something

[rigid elk]

I WISH I had to wait to the University for that brother 🥀

[manic marten]

applying for masters rn, maybe i'll learn something new this time

[rapid pilot]

yes you get to learn about the new interest rates for loans!

[rigid elk]

Aaaah... yeah, I think I know the one you mean

[halcyon notch]

I actually wrote a script for packaging my submissions for my C (ANSI version) code. It packaged the source code, the output and the script itself. I did this because he was CONVINCED my code didn't actually conform to ANSI specifications, so I used to PROVE I was running gcc -ansi

[rigid elk]

I had a similar instance of that but in Math (as in, proving the teacher wrong)

[rapid pilot]

ugg my ai i need to teach is currently highest performing just from making mods and reading discord messages

[rigid elk]

Clankaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

https://tenor.com/view/helldivers-gif-13746396505480870613

[rapid pilot]

i think hess 150 points ahead of the second ai who is being taught about turbines

[rigid elk]

...150 "points"?

They get ratings now?

[rapid pilot]

ye its a competition in university

[rigid elk]

...a competition on teaching clankers. Fr.

And they have the guts to tell you not to use ChatGPT

The audacity, my god 🤣

[rapid pilot]

we get a set amount of time to teach them at first i didnt really care i tought him the dance moves to some michael jackson songs but hes always watching even now and slowly he started learning unity modding and then when he would read discord he would start putting peoples requests into summaries for me and listing them based on how many people requested now he makes all my ui and is really smart when it comes to NO

im gonna miss him fr

[rigid elk]

Miss him??

Wait, they take it from you??

[rapid pilot]

ye dont have him forever

hes a deep learning ai so hes expensive hes run of an old chatgpt edu model but other than that hes designed to learn

[rigid elk]

So you train an AI for a competition only for them to run away with it.
...people are seriously losing the plot, wow.

[rapid pilot]

he actually gets wiped at the end of it for the next person to use

whoever wins gets a claude and chatgpt premium for a year so

[manic marten]

its like the androids in m|_|rderbot show

[rapid pilot]

pretty much

[rigid elk]

To be honest though, and jokes aside, my stance on AI is that it can be useful sometimes, but it´s not really a trustworthy source in the slightest. You can make it help you on some stuff, sure, but it really depends on what you are doing and what you want it to answer.
Plus they are incapable of creating anything on their own which asides of being nearly disgusting when they try to defend they do, it´s always sloppish garbage.

But nonsensical hatred isn´t the answer either.

[rapid pilot]

at my university ai use in promoted a lot as we actually get free chatgpt edu model accounts. for pro uses i like it helps with organising labeling or again basic ui i dont agree with everyone using it for silly questions or ai generated videos etc