The inevitable aircraft remasters discussion thread

[odd glade]

This is a discussion thread about aircraft remasters some time in the future (it's on the roadmap). Which aircraft should/could be changed? Which parts could be optimized?

Let me start my opinionated part:
I personally don't like Darkreach and Cricket that much. Would not mind a major redesign of those two. As for the other, older aircraft some things could be optimized, for example, intake and engine nozzle nooks and crannies that are a bit difficult to paint. Pictures below.

[feral scarab]

agreed, personally ive always felt the compass looks very jarring, with its tiny and wide set engines looking like Sid from Ice Age, im not a fan of the compass already but it just looks…. weird

[fickle plover]

For me, it would be the Tarantula. There are so many small mistakes, that i can't unsee for the live of me. 😅 Missing window glasses on the sides, missing interior for the nose (damage model), the upper engine intakes...

[odd glade]

Before somebody chimes in and points out that the intake needs to actually stick some distance away from the wings and/or fuselage. I know things like splitter plates exist, but F-35 (and other modern stealth jets) doesn't have them and is still supersonic. Maybe some handwavium could be used to put divertless supersonic inlets on all the remastered planes to make lives of livery makers a bit easier.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Royal_Military_Museum_Brussels_2007_230.JPG/800px-Royal_Military_Museum_Brussels_2007_230.JPG

https://aviationweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/crop_freeform/public/2022-09/uk_f-35b_royal_navy.jpg?itok=9EeH2MTN

[odd glade]

Okay, after some more research it seems like DSIs are a thing since the 90s. I don't see why they couldn't be slapped on all the supersonic jets in the game.

[molten hawk]

Even jets without em should be like the F-22 and have geometry that compensates for it

But yeah, DSIs are an easy way to make aircraft look more futuristic and should be far more present in NO designs. Weird that the Revoker and Vortex don’t have em

[high tangle]

To get back darkreach sense to use and more survivability and more sense of existing medusa should rework darkreach intake will be turbines beign not so seems on radar and similar for exhaust, it can give darkreach more stealth, because now darkreach appear on radars 35KM away from carriers radars and same from medusa radome. If this changes could decrease this number to 23-27KM it give darkreach more chances making at least high(11-15KM) altitude(what pretty long time reach 10-20 minutes) strikes when fleet, airbases dont have medusa or air superiority aircrafts in air, but still risky and require a lot time for stealth climb

[odd glade]

Im fine with the Vortex. It looks good enough and ruining all the liveries just to add the DSI bump is probably not worth it.

[high tangle]

BTW
Have a lot of sense BACK agm68 in loadout. 24-32 agm68 is good choise for player who wanna play on bomber but dont wanna use high price weapons like TBM or semiballistic weapons.
Its gold middle for darkreach as huge convoys killer or destroyer small bases

[steady forge]

Darkreach's exposed compressor blades are the worst offender by far

[winter terrace]

Second in line might be the generally every vertical surface on the DR and third the Revoker bays who not only make it look silly and ruin its area ruling but also dont even fit scythes (they clip 😭 )

[high tangle]

For cricket tiny ventral turret have SOME sense for CI operations.
But im not sure, but i test it and it... Interesting experience...
12.7 turret which have tarantula could be very good addition. And ventral pylon also could carry some weapons like 2x AGM48 or 1x AGM68. And maybe even small 20mm turret with limited ammo(200-350)shells could be good too(of course all of them fitted not inside cricket and right in air in turret)

[molten hawk]

This is a 30mm cannon with 500 rounds, its pretty sick on the Cricket

edit: this is from the Quality of Life Mod

[rocky jungle]

Honestly I was hoping for different trim levels of aircraft or sub models whatever you wanna call it like additional pylons on aircraft making the Ibis into a DAP version of its current self extending its capabilities further

[high tangle]

I cant believe it can carry so much ammo. It looks it can carry maximum 50-100 shells. It cannot carry inside hundreds of shells, there is engine and another systems

[rocky jungle]

You’d be surprised… I’m guessing they’re similar dimension rounds to what the Apache fires and it can hold 1,200 rounds.

[high tangle]

It could carry ammo inside like chicane

[rocky jungle]

Yeah chaingun aircraft have internal magazines and a conveyor system to deliver ammo to the flex mount turret

It just gets confusing when only describing the diameter of the projectile. A 30mm shell from a M230 chaingun is tiny compared to a 30mm from the GAU-8 simply due to the size of the casing.

[red onyx]

DSIs are only a cost cutting solution that expects that your aircraft to never fly past Mach 2

[strong steeple]

I would like if the nozzles of the ifrit were thicker Or at least they were duller

[odd glade]

Ifrit is fine. I wouldnt touch it.

[strong steeple]

Maybe the single engine nozzles should be improved so they contract and retract as they do in real life.

[odd glade]

Just to be clear about the Cricket part from the OP: the only thing that bothers me is the bendy wings. The rest of the plane is fine (tho ive never made any liveries for it, so dont know if its annoying to work with or not).

[strong steeple]

I just think the nozzles of the ifrit are too shiny for a stealth aircraft.

[spice acorn]

It's not bad to work with

The only aircraft I want a partial remodel of is the darkreach, obviously

[thorn robin]

Future animation adjustments:

DR fans should rotate (or get S-duct)
Only half the nosegear strut rotates on all aircraft
Vortex flare dispenser should animate like the Ifrit
Suspensions components should be animated in general
Tara rotors should tilt and fold forward when off so it can actually fit in the Annex bay
Ifrit wings should unfold when starting, at least when spawning on Hyperion
Chicane and Tara rotary gun should rotate

[viscid imp]

I like something to help me feel like i'm inside the bubble of the cockpit. Ok, so some of them have the canopy bow. What about a very faint reflection of the pilot? IDK something that means that when I'm in a the Vortex or Revoker I don't feel like the pilot is just sat in the air steam.

Speaking of canopy bow, mirrors would be cool. Even if you have to toggle them so they don't kill low end systems.

[red onyx]

Variable nozzle movement in response to throttle and especially Revoker receiving a proper animation for its sync ring multi axis nozzle

[odd glade]

Agree. Would be nice to know which way the plane is oriented when youre trying to track your target. Some sort of futuristic and minimalistic markings would be nice. Maybe even the plastic canopy charges, even though canopies dont get shattered in NO.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/View_from_the_cockpit_of_a_Hawk_TMK1.jpg/960px-View_from_the_cockpit_of_a_Hawk_TMK1.jpg

[runic tapir]

hidden compressor fans on darkreach (mod)

[high tangle]

We mean more significant changes, but it also good variant for mod

[patent wind]

in my biased opinion:

• darkreach needs to be redesigned from the ground up
• cricket is fine (I wouldn't mind a belly turret/higher caliber guns)
• chicane could look less chunky in the back
• tarantula could use a prettier cockpit exterior and better damage model
• revoker/vortex engine hitboxes need to be split into "turbine" and "afterburner" (hits in the back cause total flameout too easily)
• removable pylons for most planes (if nothing is equipped)
  the rest seems fine

[red onyx]

I dont really look at these design aspects and think "seems fine"

pretty much every aircraft before Medusa needs some kind of rework to its model

[runic tapir]

slightly less strange compass nozzles (mod)

[modern gull]

landing gear texturing should get fixed on all aircraft

[vagrant marsh]

Late to the party here but if we're shooting for realism, different intake geometries have different properties. DSIs and trapezoidal intakes are both optimzied for stealth, but from memory DSIs are better suited for supersonic flight below mach 2 whereas trapezoidal intakes have better performance above mach 2. That's the only real difference in flight property optimization I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's other applications where a trapezoidal intake may be preferential to a DSI.

[winter terrace]

Mitch mentioned some landing gear thing in the last dev stream for all the aircraft. that got the low quality ones rn

[winter terrace]

also whats wrong with the first pic, nose not pointy enough? cockpit position? I try to stick my fingers in my eyes and scream to not ruin the Revoker for myself.

[red onyx]

Nose and canopy have the proportions and shaping of a kids cartoon airplane, real jarring once you compare it to the other two fighters that look decently normal

[viscid imp]

HUD/HMD info when looking out the side window if the Terra

[rigid quartz]

Rewoker is so ugly... Make it look like M2k please

[steady forge]

with canards tho, so more like canard Mirage III types

[hard sedge]

Ah yes, make the 4.5 gen that's already kinda old by the setting's standards into a 3.5 gen

[red onyx]

We simply remove the revoker from the game

[hard sedge]

FS-12 revoked, punishment for "pls gib old"

[red onyx]

The game was most realistic when it only had the Darkreach anyways

[rigid quartz]

We are talking bout the looks☝️

Slap all the new shiny things on it and make it sharper. Like an actual dorito

[hard sedge]

A dorito you say? then let's also ditch the vertical tail and all but the smallest external weapon mounts

Among other things

In fact, i even have a planform we can use as a starting point!

[modern gull]

🔺

[hard sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/dorito-spinning-gif-3037281823386410084

[spice acorn]

What's wrong

[fleet nova]

its plane nerd stuff (Idk either)

[red onyx]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense

👍

[modern gull]

Whats that

[quick zenith]

I was maybe thinking the revoker could do a rework for its model

I'm not a huge fan of the nose shape and intake area. It's just odd.

if it looked something a little like this from the get go I won't mind, but the current model should get a rework, honest 🙏

but this matter might be at most difficult if you take into account of the many great skins of the voker on the workshop. Makes me wonder if a slight model change or an outright rework would upset, or make the community happy?

[odd glade]

We could always ask the livery makers by making a poll, but I think that some optimization (like changing the intakes to DSIs) would at least speed up the process of making new skins.

[somber niche]

All we know from the lives rn is "revoker bays" are getting a remodel and the darkreach as wel

I hope mitch finds a way to extend the vortex's bay a little

[ripe burrow]

I'm hoping the DR gets remodeled to be a tailless flying wing as it would just make sense

[quick zenith]

or if not, a genuine BWB instead of a pseudo blended flying wing

[odd glade]

Should be a flying wing with buffed RCS imo. Then make the supersonic bomber a BWB.

[rapid vapor]

i just hope the revoker has its UVs fixed

[strong steeple]

They seem to be warped at the nose and the section behind the canards.

[rapid vapor]

yeah they need to be cleaned up

[strong steeple]

I specially hate the revokers nose, it's s oddly shaped

[rapid vapor]

around the cockpit is really weird preventing us from putting details there, you can notice that in some liveries

[loud cloak]

As someone who has made a lot of skins, I wouldn't mind the models getting changed, as long as they only get changed once.

[rapid vapor]

^

i mean i wouldnt mind them being changed more than once
just aslong as its not that often

im actually looking forward to the revoker rework

[odd glade]

You can see a clear progress of skill with each aircraft (afaik Mitch made them all). Its probably safe to say that if he remade them now, they wouldnt need any more changes in the future.

[modern gull]

darkreach and compass are some of the oldest and it shows lmfao

[rapid vapor]

i think the compass holds up nicely still

[odd glade]

Compass is okay, but I wouldnt mind it looking more like an actual stealth jet AKA less round. DR deserves to be sleeker.

[rapid vapor]

but you can see it with the navlights being included, you dont really see mitch adding those to the skin models anymore

[rapid vapor]

ehhhh i dont really mind it not being that stealthy, its not a stealth fighter its just a lowcost trainer, i dont think ive seen anyone developing stealth trainers

[modern gull]

chicane unironically aged really well

[spice acorn]

It would make all the people with PhDs in aeronautical engineering happy

-# I think that's it though

[modern gull]

compass kind of looks like it was drawn by a child, it's just... weird

[odd glade]

Currently, Compass looks like its unsure whether it wants to be either of those and looks like something in between. I say make it basically a two seater F-35/J-35 but with smaller and less capable engines.

[rapid vapor]

its adorable <3

[modern gull]

huge agree here, i don't think compass should look as much as a stealth fighter, and be way more conventional

[spice acorn]

I don't want major remodelling aside from DR engines

A lot of the points I'm seeing are either "it looks wierd, make a completely new plane to do its role" or "the gap between the body and intake is slightly inefficient, so redo the whole plane"

[spice acorn]

I don't think it looks stealthy at all, what do you mean?

[modern gull]

also agree, huge model reworks should be much later down the line if anything, and legacy models should still be available as alternatives to keep compatability with liveries

[odd glade]

Its kind of what sells the games, though. The looks is important and many of these older planes also tend to be annoying when being painted in Blender.

[modern gull]

#1433078958840090784 message

^models are only one part of the game, and take way too much effort compared to the likes of other, bigger priorities like balancing and content

[spice acorn]

Cause if people want real remodels
Say goodbye to tons of skins as not everyones gonna redo em
Mitch has to remake the damage model, textures, damaged skin, etc

[odd glade]

I guess an alternative model of these older airframes wouldnt be a bad thing. You could basically change whether you want to fly the legacy version and keep the skins or the updated models with their own skins. Keep the stats the same.

[spice acorn]

May as well add sidegrades instead

If anything needs a remake its the infantry rifles

[odd glade]

Coming back to this: I dont mean it being an actual stealth fighter/trainer with reduced RCS, but something sleeker that keeps all the stats.

[rapid vapor]

oh yeah maybe, i personally dont really mind its current level of roundness

[rapid vapor]

whats wrong with the rifles?

[spice acorn]

Look at them

[somber niche]

Reminder that the compass looked like this

[rapid vapor]

they look like guns

[modern gull]

(looks nearly exactly the same)

[spice acorn]

That wierd handgrip thing that you have to put your arm in
They're really wide too

[odd glade]

"i disagree with people who want models redone just for the sake of it"
"redo the rifles because they really bother me"

[viral cloak]

hey guys, is there any plan for the cricket

[modern gull]

no
cricket looks fine, and does it's job well

[somber niche]

Not at all, the wings were straight the engines had weird bars to supposedly "reduce the ir sig", longer wings, no wing sweep and no optimised lerx mb

[spice acorn]

I mean seriously
The guns look screwed up

[rapid vapor]

they look like guns

[viral cloak]

the infantry rifle should be at the bottom of the priority

[spice acorn]

Well of course
But when the time comes

[odd glade]

THEY ARE INSIDE THE AIRCRAFT 99% OF THE TIME

[rapid vapor]

imo mitch could have gotten away with a png

[spice acorn]

And you can look at them from there

[rapid vapor]

not really, the seats are in the way

[somber niche]

This is the old compass a LOT changed on it

[rapid vapor]

ehhh i dont like the nozzles

[quick zenith]

honestly glad it moved on from here because holy dingus that looks hideosuse

[somber niche]

With how drastic alpha NO's compass changed, and the fact the darkreach already recieved a redesign means that, at any moment, next major after the fast jet would be "remaster 2.0" and the darkreach could be entirely different

[quick zenith]

I dont mind the compass for how it looks now, I'd rather see slight modifications/adjustments for the voker or a remodel of DR in the near future

i loce copase

[rapid vapor]

Mitch rework the voker (or just fix its UVs) and my life is yours

[strong steeple]

make it more similar to the rafale, since it might fit better

[rapid vapor]

aslong as the UVs are fixed im happy

[somber niche]

Jokingly the revoker changed like. Once and it was just to add the airbreak lol

Also old vs new darkreach

[strong steeple]

it just looks better.

[somber niche]

The revojer only needs to have its nose more pointy, no need to make it a literral rafale >:[

[strong steeple]

i made a redesign not too long ago

[somber niche]

Thats nice

I think the reach would look so much better whithout those rudders already

And making it a flying wing is the best solution this thing can become

[strong steeple]

i allways found it weird the front of the revoker looked like this, the nose being slanted just because?

[somber niche]

Its not really slanted, just a cone when it should be a triangle, would help with the supersonic travels

And yknow "pointy is scary"

[strong steeple]

i meant with the base of the cone being like this, instead of being normal like the rest of the planes.

[patent wind]

i personally really dislike the round nose

[somber niche]

Ah i see, honestly not that big of a problem if i could transition to a spike at the end, give the revoker the advantages of becoming a spear

[quick zenith]

what is that mop cleaner vtol

[somber niche]

What in the ignus does that mean

[odd glade]

Make it a dorito. I think if done right, an enlarged Avenger II with some bits and bobs added, (like winglets) could look good.

[quick zenith]

what if...

[somber niche]

At that point just turn the reach into the f-47 and call it a day

[strong steeple]

it's a very sloppy interpratation but..

[odd glade]

I keep saying, instead of adding a supersonic bomber just redesign the DR to be faster.

[somber niche]

I would prefer extreme stealth = darkreach, strategic carpet bombing = fast bomber

[strong steeple]

i had already tought of the avenger 2 but for a different purpouse

[rapid vapor]

but pala (or BDF) needs a DR equivalent

[odd glade]

Avenger II with more wing.

Also, stealth-ified Rafale as the new Revoker would look really good, as long as it had the DSIs, so I dont have to struggle while painting its intakes.

[somber niche]

As in one has a low enought rcs to stealthily strike with nukes and not be detected the other just uses speed and prayers

[odd glade]

Well, sure. I would take either, but I feel like DR will become obsolete once we have the faster version of it, even if its less capable in terms of payload and less stealthy.

[somber niche]

That would depend on the redesign, i would hope the fast bomber doesnt get access to piledrivers for example, or cruise missiles, basically make it a b1 but different

[feral scarab]

at least not for a decent while, i could see eventual changes but tbh i think fairly unlikely

[loud cloak]

the TU-160 is like all cruise missiles though...
and so is the B-52 during wars against nations that can fight back.

[feral scarab]

well… the B1 uses cruise missiles too… but i agree on the PD’s, disagree on no cruisers

[somber niche]

Well yea but the reach has no reasons to be used if the fast bomber can do the same job and faster, it needs its niche

[ripe burrow]

Since the fast bomber is probably gonna end up being one faction's airframe and the reach for the other, it would be a balancing nightmare to give one access to standoff munitions and not the other

[hard sedge]

The idea that making one of them have the RCS of a stadium as "balance" is kinda ridiculous and is one of the ideas I'm poking at when i describe a suggestion as "pls gib old"

Old by the standards of NO is stuff like the B-2, F-35, and maybe some of the very last 4.5 gen fighters. Which makes people wanting aircraft types that were old when those were new just stylistically absurd

[viral cloak]

I think strategic bombing is a bit moot since nuclear bombs exist and all in game fighters got some legs

[hard sedge]

Consequence of map size unfortunately. If the map was big enough that it was say, 2x the max range of the cruise missile from end to end you could actually do some interesting DR missions

[ripe burrow]

I'm hoping they give the DR glide bombs so you'd actually have a chance at using them for saturation attacks

Problem would then be it's far from optimal RCS making it difficult to get close enough for any glide bombs to get through

[somber niche]

Wich is why it needs a remaster

Snake biting its own darn tail

[ripe burrow]

That's,,, exactly what I've been saying for a good while

[somber niche]

Wich is true :D tbh the darkreach has been needing a good face lift for a while

[floral canopy]

I think the cas1 has detailed nav lights and the Ibis has modelled [less detailed] nav lights on its rudders.

[rapid vapor]

i mean included on the livery files/textures, couldve phrased it better my bad

[fleet nova]

The ifrit's belly might need a redesign. it looks weird

[winter terrace]

I think its fine, It would probably be fine if it was flush (would mean a bigger bay too) but
I dont think theres anything wrong with it

[rapid vapor]

yeah its fine imo

[winter terrace]

The nose is funny but stylistic choice

[quick zenith]

it looks fine

[odd glade]

I think its safe to assume that whatever ended up on shirts and mugs from the merch store is not getting changed.

[rapid vapor]

nah change only the ones with completed merch designs to troll bloor

[feral scarab]

while thats a good point thats also extremely sad and extremely limiting for a dumb reason 🫩

[somber niche]

Vortex vtol afterburner being a lie now :

[odd glade]

Why? All these aircraft look good and dont need any changes to how they look, apart from some minor tweaks and fixes (apparently Tara has a missing window or something?).

[feral scarab]

i think that a lot of the aircraft are fundamentally flawed in how they look and as such shouldnt be tied down, the compass looks like a hamburger and the revoker looks like a kids toy, the DR is objectively flawed from a stealth and combat perspective.

[odd glade]

None of these are represented in the merch store, afaik.

Edit: yep. Just checked again to make sure. Theres only Tara, Vortex, Ifrit and Medusa on the shirts and mugs.

[feral scarab]

i dont keep up with the merch store, im only arguing on the base idea which imo holds back potential updates just because of a future revoker mug

[somber niche]

Honestly, aircraft not looking like real existing planes and having twists is good, some needs some tweaks here and there (revoker nose tbh or crickets gear THAT STILL CLIPS IN THE COCKPIT) and some need some serious redesigns like the reach

If you want funky looking planes look at ace combat and other fictional planes in media

They might look goofy but we need to remember that NO is a semi sim not a dcs analog

Aka i dont want extreme realism in each plane

Something that works and looks like it works is a start already

[odd glade]

Well, thats exactly my point tho. Seems like devs stopped themselves from ordering more aircraft art until they remaster the ones that are missing from the store.

[strong steeple]

i think polishing them and reworking some looks would help, i'm sure the aircraft are gonna look better now if we give them a chance to do so.

[somber niche]

Yea, some tweaks here and there whithout completely remodeling the thing would be very nice, and then theres our bomber

[strong steeple]

i think polishing up the revoker or the DR is not gonna work, since those models are quite flawed.

[somber niche]

Revokers needs some touch ups here and there, good thing it and the reach are the main one concerned, i fell like the rev needs to be more pointy whilst the reach needs to become a flying wing

[strong steeple]

revoker can matain it's general design with some touch ups, but the model's gotta be redone, it just has a bad case of warped UV's in most of it's body, specially the nose

[somber niche]

The uv can probably be done on a good sunday afternoon, mitch is efficient, i think it needs to be a bit more pointy in some areas

[strong steeple]

i'd rather have it redone even if it takes more effort ,the end result might blend better with the newer aircraft

[somber niche]

Wouldnt a full remaster of the uv require a full remaster of the aircraft ? As far as i know in modeling its basically getting rid of odd shapes in a model right ?

[strong steeple]

it's faster to work from scratch knowing your previous mistakes than trying to polish something flawed, at least with my personal experience making 3d models

[somber niche]

I hope every aircrafts get a touch up tbh, and even hoping for the update after the fast bomber to be "Remastered and remixed I" and II afterward

[atomic ermine]

the Revoker's intake ducts aren't actually modeled, while the Vortex and Ifrit's intakes are
the Ifrit in particular has an incomplete S-duct; at some angles, u can see straight to the center of the turbine