#JAGM (Joint Air Ground Missile)

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hasty flicker
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What is JAGM? The AGM-179 Joint Air-Ground Missile (aka JAGM) is a modern air to ground missile being produced to replace the AGM-65 Maverick and AGM-114 Hellfire for all branches of the US military. Tens of thousands of JAGMs are on order, and the weapon will be launched from drones, helicopters, and a variety of fixed wing platforms including supersonic fighters. JAGM has already reached IOC on many platforms and multiple variants- including extended range variants- have been successfully developed.

Why do we need JAGM? Currently supersonic fighters lack AGM variety, and to add insult to injury the one AGM they do have is based off a 1970s design. JAGM is a modern missile that offers greater quantity than the AGM-68 with similar range/capability. The main downside is JAGM has a significantly smaller warhead. Like Kingpins, JAGM would offer new strike tactics and payload flexibility to a number of airframes.

Why do we need JAGM when we have the AGM-48? Right now all supersonic fighters have access to only a single Air to Ground Missile- the AGM-68, which is practically a 1:1 copy of the IRL AGM-65 Maverick. The Maverick is an incredibly outdated weapon system and fundamentally isn't meant to be used in internal weapon bays. JAGM is designed for internal weapon bay stowage, meaning that fighters like the Vortex can fit 4 JAGM where 1 AGM-68 could fit. JAGM also can be mounted on external triple racks. By adding JAGM as a new missile, it can be tweaked and tailored to fit supersonic platforms without unduly buffing or nerfing the existing AGM-48.

How will JAGM be balanced? This missile would allow fighters to have the same balance tradeoffs that the Compass/Cricket/CAS plane have with the AGM-48 and AGM-68: greater quantity for significantly smaller warhead size.

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Before anyone asks, JAGM is slightly longer than the Hellfire (aka AGM-48), and the JAGM-F (extended range variant) features redesigned guidance fins that would better suit internal weapon bay deployment, though AFAIK the standard JAGM works just fine for internal weapon bays.

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winter blade
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I love an AGM-48-style system on fighters instead of relying on the AGM-68 or the compass.

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agm-68 is just too fat

hasty flicker
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You can mod AGM-48s onto fighters by editing your client AFAIK, Offiry's QoL mod has it as a feature and it seems pretty fair and fun. The advantage of adding a new missile is allowing it to be tweaked without changing the performance of AGM-48s, which is better for game balance.

With the CAS plane having an insane amount of AGMs- like 2 dozen AGM-68s and 3 dozen AGM-48s, most likely, given the pylons- JAGM would be a nice capability for the fighters to have.

winter blade
rough zephyr
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Will there be any downsides to this thing outside of their launch platforms being very expensive?
With the Vortex and Ifrit probably fitting around 20.
A good step at correcting the issue that the Compass is more useful in destruction of air defences than the fighters at a fraction of the price.

hasty flicker
winter blade
hasty flicker
# rough zephyr Will there be any downsides to this thing outside of their launch platforms bein...

AAA tested how many AGM-48s could fit in the Ifrit and it looks like it can fit 8 per weapon bay, so at maximum the Ifrit would carry 16 internally and 12 externally, for a total of 28. The Vortex's roll fans would be somewhat blocked by a full triple mount on the outer pylons, so it would carry somewhere around 10 externally, and 12 internally, for a total of 22. Can't remember what the Revoker can fit, but I'd guess probably a similar total amount.

Edit: turns out the Vortex vents aren’t blocked by triple racks of AGM-48s, so it can carry 12 externally

simple cairn
hasty flicker
lusty wadi
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JAGM triple racks for_real

hasty flicker
vague canopy
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its also fire and forget, vs the hellfire which needs CLOS

hasty flicker
vapid lantern
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not exactly a real world reference and probably not a valid configuration for the real world aircraft, but for comparison's sake, here's an F-35C in AC7 using the Brimstone II, which is a comparible missile to the JAGM and thus the Hellfire

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I think this is Brimstone II at least

hasty flicker
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Yeah that’s what I figured would be a realistic F-35/Vortex loadout, and the QoL mod shows it’s pretty darn awesome and it doesn’t block the roll vents

vapid lantern
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I should probably load up a primarily a2g mission and figure out how it feels in extended combat

hasty flicker
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Offiry is gonna (re)add internal AGM-48s soon as well

vapid lantern
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iirc some aircraft have that? lacking on others, I assume it's due to a bug of some kind

hasty flicker
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Not sure, some payloads appear to have been removed with this last mod update so they can rework em (I guess, idk)

That includes the 6x ARH and 8x ARH internal payloads for the Revoker and Ifrit

vapid lantern
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you'd have to ask Offiry ig

stark heart
vapid lantern
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#1337634794040983593

stark heart
vapid lantern
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yes

vapid lantern
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played with the 12x AGM-48 loadout some, it feels great! tanks are sturdy enough to not die in 1 most of the time, but soft body targets are easily taken out. Feels... Ok against sams and spaags? if you get super close you can get one off before they have time to react, but the AGM-68 has a niche for being a faster missile

hasty flicker
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AGM-68 also retains the niche of being significantly better at anti ship and anti structure, which is a good balance IMO

azure glen
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agm-48, though low tier, still feels balanced on ifrit and vortex

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i think it fits the midtier a2g well, at least for agms

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the tiers are agr18 > agr24 > agm48 > agm68 > tusko-b, with agm98 as a sidegrade for hightier and upgraded to ashm300, and atp-1 and arad as niche low and high tier respectively

simple cairn
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I think Mitch want to pull the same card he did with Ifrit's heater bays and create a brand new missile for this

azure glen
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3x 48s fits between 2x 68 and 4x 24 too, where you normally take 68s for range and power versus 24s for number and endurance

azure glen
rough zephyr
stuck bane
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I'd rather go with a JAGM-F counterpart that can actually bust tanks reliably

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FJM-48? idk

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Or AGM-48X

vapid lantern
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the problem with a JAGM-F that can one shot tanks with ease is, it directly replaces the AGM-48

I'd be fine just straight up adding the 48 to fast jets

stuck bane
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Because the point is to give fighter jets a small AGM they deserve when it comes to punching through armor some more, only for fighters. So that stealth wont end up for sneeki bombki only.

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Roots of JAGM idea go back to giving Vortex more shine, which is mostly falling short in ground attack due to small bays

vapid lantern
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the requirements of Nuclear Option aircraft are also pretty different to real world aircraft so, I kinda understand

for instance the F-35 doesn't have the biggest air to ground capacity, especially since it doesn't have JAGM-F yet

stuck bane
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I didnt even know JAGM-F's specs till i looked it up after a dude mentioned it and I liked it because thats what am I looking for

hasty flicker
# vapid lantern the requirements of Nuclear Option aircraft are also pretty different to real wo...

I mean, any AGM of size and shape and role like the AGM-48 should be optimized to kill tanks, either through sheer power or special maneuvers (namely, top attack).

I like having AGM-48s on fast movers in the QoL mod, but I’d love if they would have proper JAGM-F capability which better fits the 2070 setting. With how powerful AD is in the mod, I rarely felt like tank durability was something that was worth balancing AGM-48s around anyways, making them one shot MBTs would simply make them more fun and reliable and realistic IMO

vapid lantern
# hasty flicker I mean, any AGM of size and shape and role like the AGM-48 should be optimized t...

mmmaybe, I'm just trying to think through things like... If engagement ranges are so short in NO and AGM-48s (or equivalent) one shot tanks effectively, then suddenly it doesn't make much sense to use something like a PAB-125 for convoy busting, since you don't need the extra armaments as the nearest airbase is 10 miles away or even less

I guess this might be solved by having a bigger map? gives an actual reason to choose an even larger payload over a somewhat smaller but still large payload, even if it forces a close range engagement

hasty flicker
# vapid lantern mmmaybe, I'm just trying to think through things like... If engagement ranges ar...

There’s always going to be the downside of AGMs being easier for air defense to shoot down than bombs by how NO works. With the addition of laser APS on the Spearhead and CIWS/L-CWIS, the soft counter to JAGM already exists in game.

MBTs are a low priority but highly annoying target- 9/10 times you’re focusing on SEAD anyways, by the time you’re focusing on killing MBTs you’ve cleared the air defenses so you could put a bomb on them if you really wanted to. Making JAGM one shot MBTs is a quality of life improvement at that point, and a realistic one at that.

I’d hope we’d get some of the QoL AD buffs down the road as well. The mod has a lot of good content I’d like to see in the base game.

TL;DR: an AGM designed to kill tanks should be able to one shot tanks

stuck bane
stuck bane
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dammit this thread got too silent

hasty flicker
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meh, we'll just have to see how it plays out, hopefully we'll get it ingame at some point

but honestly? I've been playing the QoL mod and loving it, great way to enjoy NO as it has a lot of features the base game is lacking

vapid lantern
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same ye

stuck bane
marble hemlock
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I think the Vortex really needs a bit more A2G in some capacity. I really like how the Revoker can carry a fair bit of A2G now. But it makes the Vortex seem a bit less desirable, as the Vortex does not have that many more weapons when using most of my preferred A2G loadouts.

vapid lantern
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I gently nudge you in the direction of the QOL mod