Upcoming drone ideas

[indigo salmon]

this is stupid

eh, my ideas are kinda trash anyway, don't wanna overwork the devs

[sacred raptor]

You should post them anyway! Ideas are ideas - consider this forum to be a brainstorming space for the community. When brainstorming, you're meant to share any and all ideas after all 🙂

[jade valley]

Just be ready for "1986 Chernobyl" levels of toxicity to be dumped on you if your ideas have any modicum of originality. The clique of most prominent members of this community have decided on behalf of the developers that creativity is dangerous and only existing real world technology shall be added.

[lilac topaz]

wtf did you suggest? sounds like you don't take criticism well

[inner magnet]

airborne railgun omegalul

[lilac topaz]

actually?

[jade valley]

Ah, there's the posse now to pat each other on the back for their toxicity.
Imma just hang out and let y'all prove my point for me.

[lilac topaz]

dude i'm gonna be completely honest, you cannot take criticism well

if we disagree with you, that doesn't mean we hate you

[inner magnet]

“Toxicity” being linking the devs post where they explain how airborne railguns don’t work in NO

[jade valley]

I thought the railgun discussion was fairly civil actually.

[halcyon minnow]

this is true

[indigo salmon]

yeah, which is why I'm starting to delete my old posts, soI don't become a victim
best to avoid

[lilac topaz]

you're not gonna be hunted down for a bad suggestion dude

[indigo salmon]

it's not that, I myself doubt that my own ideas are good

[red moat]

i am not gonna name authentic sources local or otherwise

[frozen oracle]

nah, not everyone is on Cosmic level (no offense) of writing ton of text for some real life tech that Mitch definitely need to add to the game
Devs anyway check every single suggestion posted here and have their own plan on adding or implementing something

[jade valley]

Yeah, but Cosmic was here within seconds (not exaggerating) of me posting the warning about toxicity, so there's definitely a small group that swarm like mosquitoes on anything that upsets their status quo, and that level of defensiveness can only come from people who know there's a kernel of truth to it.

[inner magnet]

buddy if you think I advocate for status quo I have news for you lol

[jade valley]

Within the last hour you've supported the notion that suggestions should be permanently closed because of beef with both too-realistic suggestions and too-video-game-like suggestions.

You are clearly part of a highly active and visible in-group of NO purists who believe you have the only vision of what is acceptable for the game going forward.

[inner magnet]

ooh this is the part where you link it and I point out how you’re wildly mischaracterizing me

“in-group of NO purists” as in the Devs? The Devs that make the game? The Devs that wanted to do railguns on aircraft but couldn’t make it work and explained as much?

Hooooooooookay buddy.

[jade valley]

I hate to actually continue the argument but the railgun was only one thing. I also got a mountain of snark for daring to suggest a high-supersonic multirole/strike jet.

[inner magnet]

no, you explicitly suggested a stealth F-14, not only which has been suggested before several times, Mitch himself has talked about why he’s probably not gonna do an F-14

Next time use the search bar if you don’t want snark

[jade valley]

No, I explicitly suggested an un-stealth fighter and something a hell of a lot faster than an F-14.
Can't be expected to read the whole suggestion, I suppose.
I get people don't like the lore idea of it being an older design in-universe, but A.) it's not like that's a necessary component of the suggestion and B.) there's no need for people to be jerks regardless.

[inner magnet]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1406702326441447515

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1383220073723854858

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1376849032944685107

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1380355274686333018

no, giving an F-14 the flight performance of a SR-71 or better does not make it a valid suggestion

[jade valley]

You ARE aware that my name isn't WinterSee, right?
There we go again, acting like it's your privilege to determine what suggestions are valid.

[halcyon minnow]

bro didn't even post in that thread

[inner magnet]

oh let me go back and check then, it’s been a doozy of a day on the forum

[jade valley]

People in normal, healthy discords would use a down arrow to indicate they don't like it, maybe leave a comment about why they don't like it, and that'd be it. But people HAVE to take out their real-life aggression on random internet strangers.

If anything is truly unacceptable for inclusion, the developers will pay it no mind and everyone will go on with their day. I don't post suggestions with the assumption that they're likely to make it into the game, and I doubt most other people do, so I don't know why there seems to be this lynch mob desperately defending NO against "bad" suggestions as if every idea that isn't relentlessly mocked will be added.

[halcyon minnow]

but you are wrong and should admit you are wrong and my seven friends are also going to tell you you are wrong until you leave the server or stop posting please and thank you mgmt

[inner magnet]

The vast majority of this thread is you kvetching about being told your suggestion kinda stunk after I provided a single sentence of context

said context is when I literally linked you a detailed explanation by the devs themselves about why, conceptually, one of your suggestions you got wrapped around the axle about doesn’t work in NO

anyways I’m assuming you deleted the fighter suggestion? Scrolled several pages for it, didn’t see it

[jade valley]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1418420083050676344

IDK if it's still visible or not, that's the link I have saved and I can still view it.

[inner magnet]

…nobody was toxic though? That comment section went beyond the norm to iterate and talk about the suggestion

[jade valley]

#1418420083050676344 message
It's far from polite discussion (yeah, I put the middle finger emote response, I'm not perfect and that's a really shitty thing to post on someone's suggestion.)

The railgun was more or less a civil discussion, and it wasn't my understanding that the developers were rejecting the idea of aerial railguns outright.

[inner magnet]

I can’t answer for that individual, but as for myself and my apparent mosquito-like-nature, if you notice my main point of concern was the nuance of what you were suggesting

[jade valley]

I'm perfectly fine with constructive criticism that isn't dripping with hostility.

[inner magnet]

Dedicated interceptors and ground attack don’t really mix, as Germany found out with the F-104G. The question I had (that you took incredibly personally) was if you intended the aircraft to be a dedicated interceptor, or an air superiority fighter capable of high altitude interception. But you not giving that question the time of day is what colored future interactions with you.

Like, you can’t say this then get pissy when people give you actual feedback, like many did in #feedback-and-suggestions and in this (and that) thread.

The irony is that thread gave you the benefit of the doubt, interpreted your suggestion as much as possible, and turned it into a discussion about relevant and realistic multirole 4.5 gens that would fit NO

so IDK man you can keep tilting at windmills I guess, don’t blame the bogeyman of the forums though

[jade valley]

What you asked right now is perfectly normal. Implying that I'm a moron for suggesting something multirole that was traditionally split among multiple aircraft is why I responded negatively.

Yeah, I was suggesting that a supersonic interceptor could also be fitted with ground-attack munitions for fast hit and run strikes. I really don't think that's an offensive combination, but just because it apparently failed once in real life is a tenuous reason to shut it down.

[void citrus]

I mean if it failed once, I wouldn't repeat the same mistake

[jade valley]

Everything that has ever been worth doing has been failed at countless times, so failure of one iteration alone isn't much.

[void citrus]

I mean, with drones I would see them as weapons rather than actually piloting them, like they have their own network and such and operate via the aircraft Commanders orders, like how ground units do, I do wonder if you could set how they would engage a target, like being programed for A2G or A2A in the weapons menu.

[inner magnet]

An “interceptor” traditionally refers to the class of combat aircraft designed to sortie and climb to altitude rapidly, achieve high speed, and engage strategic bombers. It implies an entire slew of performance requirements that shapes the capability of the aircraft, which has the side effect of making it kinda terrible at ground attack. Furthermore “hit and run attackers” straight up doesn’t work in the age of air to air missiles, which is one of the reasons the interceptor role was folded into the multirole 4th gen fighter jet. There are no more dedicated interceptors. They’re all air superiority fighter jets, and they’re all multirole.

So when you “suggest a supersonic interceptor” it’s automatically a head scratcher because the role doesn’t exist and is covered by ingame aircraft thoroughly.

Oh, and I never implied you were a moron, which is kinda amazing for me tbh.

[halcyon minnow]

vibes based interceptor

[void citrus]

And the ifrit or revoker being the closest things to an interceptor at the moment solidifies more this fact.

[inner magnet]

The Revoker, Vortex, and Ifrit are interceptors.

Modern interceptions aren’t done with jets going Mach 3. They’re done with air superiority jets flinging LRAAMs (like the Scimitar) at Mach 4.

[jade valley]

Yes, the radar-guided missiles would be a nightmare for a pure-speed attacker, but if you're pushing mach 3 you'll likely be out of the heat-seekers' range before they reach you unless I'm sorely misunderstanding their capabilities.

Normal notching and jamming would be even more difficult because of the large unstealthy airframe.

[void citrus]

Well that kind of the tech was most popular with spy planes and bombers from the cold war, however a missile in the right spot or a million of them could still hit you.

[inner magnet]

You don’t need to worry about heatseekers. ARHs will eat you alive at that speed. You simply won’t be able to turn to notch fast enough.

There’s very little point in crafting a Mach 3+ fighter jet with current technology, instead the focus is on stealth and faster/longer range missiles.

[thick hawk]

I think glide bombs would work for ground attack from a extra fast "interceptor" jet.

if it's a very light jet, mount a nuclear glide bomb.

[void citrus]

Tough a hypersonic bomber could still work in the game.

[inner magnet]

glide bombs have to slow down when they open their wings, possibly the worst choice for a supersonic strike, they bleed all the speed of their launch platform shortly after launch unlike AGMs or LJDAMs

[jade valley]

Glide bombs could certainly have a much longer range, though air defenses are still a big concern.

There are hypersonic glide vehicles in testing right now with no terminal-phase propulsion.

[thick hawk]

a glide bomb doesn't have to be your traditional bomb with wings contraption. this is a glide bomb, but we call it a glide vehicle for some reason.

[inner magnet]

ok, again, the reason aircraft development shifted from faster and faster jets (F-104, SR-71, X-15) to multirole fighters and now stealth multirole fighters is, fundamentally, what you’re proposing is a dead end in the modern theater of war

and, again, NO is 2030s tech with a 2070s label. That’s the scope of the game.

[jade valley]

Then what's the point of having it in the 2070s?

[tame jay]

I'd actually argue that big fast jets do have a very real place in the game and IRL but this well is so thoroughly poisoned at this point

[thick hawk]

what about the SR-72? I hear that will be both a recon and strike aircraft.

@jade valley 2070s means the devs can do whatever they want and use "it's the future" as an excuse. And aesthetic.

@inner magnet dude that doesn't change anything it's just a nuclear bomb.

[tame jay]

From what we know NGAD is supposed to be much faster than F-35 and so is J-36. They are both much more interceptor like platforms

[inner magnet]

there’s a big difference between “let’s add MIRVs” and “let’s miniaturize that and merge it with a SR-71”

Like I’m all for hypersonic weapons, those are cool. It’s the unrealistic aircraft that I have issue with.

[void citrus]

also maintenance and rising costs of operation, it's simply not that economical to operate them, like the SR 71.

[jade valley]

Yes, but NO really doesn't resemble a modern battlefield all that much.
Air defenses are both better (anti-munition) and worse (SARH) than real life equivalents.
Solid state laser defenses are actually viable on portable platforms.

[tame jay]

The issue with such an aircraft in NO is that NO makes a series of deviations versus IRL and its scope is such that an aircraft like this wouldn't fit on the battlefield(as in size)

[thick hawk]

by modern warfare I take it to mean recognizeable armor like tanks and IFVs, air defenses existing in a recognizable way, and fighter jets existing.

So anything from the missile/jet age to modern nascent laser age.

the game has a railgun in it.

So just recognizable types of combat vehicles and weaponry, with their relationships being somewhat alike to now.

[tame jay]

Having said all that modeling such an aircraft off the F-14 is comical. People know the F-14 is not fast, right?

[jade valley]

He'd gotten my suggestion confused with somebody else's
I fear you're right about the deviations from reality. I've said it before, if NO happened IRL they'd immediately make armor-plated 250kt bombs that are un-interceptable.

[inner magnet]

The premise of the game is BDF and PALA are third tier nations with hand me down weapons. Like Chile, or Egypt, or Singapore, etc and etc, they don’t have a cutting edge arsenal and rely on exports and a few home grown platforms. The rest of the fictional world is generations ahead in weapons tech.

I can link Mitch quotes if you want, but that’s the whole point of it being 2070- it’s an excuse for a futuristic but not unrecognizable battlefield.

[tame jay]

You showing up to combatpost doesn't help.

[thick hawk]

it would be very cool to see a superpower as a faction for asymmetric gameplay. Later. Maybe.

[jade valley]

I don't know what that means...

[inner magnet]

“Faster than a F-35” is a lowwwww bar.

[halcyon minnow]

the F-35 is fast, its paint job just doesn't like it going fast.

[tame jay]

I mean you showed up in this thread to basically start a fight and attack other users about other threads. That is going to result in a lot of confusion and conflict.

[void citrus]

i mean it's doable, but it's a pain in the butt to do so, because the way aircraft are built like Legos, and also have a fixed axis, so if you shift that axis it doesn't work right, unless there's a way to move it, so that's why mitch said he would only do it for bombers if i remember, since it doesn't make sense for a fighter in game.

[thick hawk]

if people really want an F-14 and swing wings are off the table all you need is a twin engine big naval fighter that can carry super long range missiles, which we already have with the Ifirt.

[jade valley]

If calling people out for being dicks makes me just as much of a dick then I guess I should get used to upside-down world.

[inner magnet]

okay so just because it deviates from reality doesn’t mean it’s not realistic

The game is advertised as featuring realistic and immersive physics, Mitch has talked extensively about keeping it grounded and based off of real air combat mechanics/aircraft/weapons/etc, and the entire vibe of the game is based on an alternative interpretation of modern combat aircraft (it’s a world where the losers of prototype fly offs are the winners)

[void citrus]

RAM coating melts off easier than normal painting. and that already melted off in an F4

[halcyon minnow]

based off of real air combat mechanics/aircraft/weapons/etc

huh

[tame jay]

The amount of work done on adaptive cycle engines and the huge three engined designs suggest aircraft faster than F-22 as well, probably pushing past Mach 3

[thick hawk]

I wouldn't mind having a very fast plane. It would actually have lots of advantages. Maybe as a high end aircraft for BDF? I like the idea of a sort of alternate NGAD clone for them.

[inner magnet]

even if the mechanics aren’t simulator level the aircraft, weapons, and core combat mechanics are 110% grounded in reality and I can drown you in Mitch quotes to prove it (shoot I almost drowned myself digging them up)

[jade valley]

Yeah hybrid turbo/ramjets are promising for high supersonic aircraft, and hypersonic is THE buzzword in current military tech circles.

[halcyon minnow]

no its just funny thats the point, and then everyone is a dick about people recommending things like existing cool things.

[void citrus]

the hypersonic whatever should be a bloody bomber in my opinion, it would be boring to have it on a missile. first time a triangle seems to make sense to me

[thick hawk]

I'd say make it a high supersonic wedge, with a turbo ramjet engine system. NGAD wedge sort of deal but with vertical stabilizers. Smaller than the ifrit but really fast and high flying. Also very stealth.

[jade valley]

I don't know how a hypersonic full-size bomber would balance, that's one reason I opted for more of a hit-and-run striker.

[inner magnet]

considering the limitations inherent in current RAM coating I have serious doubts as to that top speed

that said, we’ve had other threads about adding NGAD-like jets, so… once again we come full circle to it being a redundant post, if this boils down to just another NGAD/J-36 suggestion

[halcyon minnow]

the FA/XX getting delayed for the NGAD is so funny because between the two of them the FA/XX is a much more restrained concept.

[tame jay]

Going on some "I am persecuted by the whole discord and you all suck and I hate this poster in particular" is uhh well beyond that and makes me just discredit you in general

[jade valley]

I said suggesting something creative would get you dogpiled. I got dogpiled for saying that. I postulate that the people who responded negatively to those claims would not have responded at all if what I said wasn't true, they'd just ignore it.
It'd just be more mad ramblings of a random mad man.
Not to mention the immediacy of the responses.

[inner magnet]

if you put an idea out in a forum, and it sucks, you’re gonna get dogpiled

public feedback is the purpose of a forum

source: I too have put shitty ideas out into this very forum and have received copious negative feedback, it happens, take it in stride

[jade valley]

Plenty of forums (maybe even most of them) respond to unpopular ideas politely.
The people that treated you poorly for your ideas instead of giving you good constructive feedback are also in the wrong.
There's certainly no need for them to be uncivil.

[inner magnet]

not when the OP goes on a self righteous tirade about an imaginary counter culture

the derision that follows is what you reap with that, which is why nobody has a ton of sympathy

source: I have been on the exact other end of this conversation

[jade valley]

The assumption that this is all for sympathy is so characteristic of my entire point.
Everyone being jerks means everyone's equal, but it still sucks!

[thick hawk]

eh.

there's a few ideas a lot of people want and they get posted a lot so people meme about it.
I don't really know what happened up top of the chat so I'm just going to think that happened or something.

[halcyon minnow]

both of you go in the timeout corner

[inner magnet]

nah I’ll just dip, I’ve gone above and beyond explaining stuff, if they’re still upset that’s a them problem at this point

[jade valley]

I really wish they'd just make an official compilation of frequently-suggested things.
@thick hawk I warned the OP of this thread, who is a new poster here, about the toxicity that rains down on any idea that isn't sufficiently status quo, and that he'd get jumped by a specific group of people who take way too much pleasure in crapping on people's ideas.
And though I didn't name anyone, one of that group IMMEDIATELY (within less than a minute) jumped in on the defensive.
And that's basically the whole thing.

[thick hawk]

the frequent set:
Ground Attack plane
Swing Wing (because of F-14 hype)
variations of super fast planes.
Etc

These happen a lot and I think a lot of newer users don't know or don't think about that and are a little surprised that everyone else has seem them already and just responds with

Yeah I left the server for a while because I got tired of arguing with people and it was taking WAY too much of my time. The simplest way to get your time back is to chop it off.

[jade valley]

Plus the idea that I'm being a martyr when at LEAST 2 other people have voiced similar concerns merely within the last day.

[tame jay]

I mean you can suggest attackers and get away with it as long as you put thought into it

Plugging my own https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1377093593809817681

[thick hawk]

most of my suggestions would take things that were already in the game and suggest using them in unique and different ways. I used to put up LOTS of them. I think I've ran out of ideas though so I won't be doing that anymore, plus there was plenty of argument about all of them in the old forum, and that's archived. So devs have all the ideas I could want in the game already and all my arguments for them (and against them) if they choose to look at them.

[jade valley]

But I don't want to get away with it. I'd rather polite people constructively criticize my ideas and find them unappealing than be praised by people who are hateful to people whose ideas they dislike.

[empty plover]

appeal to emption+ad hominem+appeal to spite+false attribution+homunculus fallacy+kettle logic+proof by assertion

[inner magnet]

people were polite lmfao

you just got irrationally upset, and then people clowned on you

I feel the need to clarify this after extensively trying to explain it to you. Again.

[jade valley]

If it makes you feel better to think you won some kind of fight then go ahead. I said my piece and I stand by it.

[thick hawk]

I don't know enough about this to pick a side I'm just commenting BTW. it's happening again I'm getting sucked into stuff.

[empty plover]

inductive fallacy+regression fallacy+ignoratio elenchi

[thick hawk]

what? Well. I guess I did jump in didn't I.

[inner magnet]

It’ll be very interesting to see what, if anything comes from NGAD. Hopefully it doesn’t get hyper politicized and get cancelled.

[jade valley]

He's making fun of mass debaters.
Nah he's just making fun of people that try to bring up logical fallacies in non-debate settings.

[empty plover]

traitorous critic fallacy+bulveri+appeal to fear

[thick hawk]

I can't tell if it's a meme or an argument against me. lmao.
I need to buy that set of logical fallacy cards so I can learn to speak logic fallacy algebra

[inner magnet]

I don’t think he’s responding to you tbh

[jade valley]

I assumed he was just commenting on the whole thread being an argument.

[empty plover]

reading the wikipedia fallacy list and saying all of the ones i feel fit the vibe of this place rn

[thick hawk]

appeal to authority fallacy

[jade valley]

I never appeal to authority, my friend can tell you that. He's a debate expert so you can trust him.
And I never use ad hominems, you drooling invalid.

[empty plover]

ima just be real i read like 10% of this and its comically meaningless overall
❤️ i dont think yall getting anywhere

[thick hawk]

yes. I need to do other stuff.

[empty plover]

fallacy fallacy+chronological snobbery+appeal to im going to sleep now

[jade valley]

ad hominem + appeal to deez nuts

[thick hawk]

appeal to kingpin fallacy

(tarantula did not survive)

[empty plover]

the only reason im joking around is because the damn original message is deleted and idk what the hell this is even about

[jade valley]

It's not about anything worth discussing anymore, frankly.

[indigo salmon]

EVERYONE SHUT THE HELL UP

Just admit that you don't care about my idea, no offense will be taken.
I knew I should never have posted anything. All this is my fault

[red moat]

u gotta stop beating yourself up for others actions

[indigo salmon]

but in this case it IS my fault

[red moat]

people type of their own volition, i hate on people of my own volition, you dont have a gun to peoples head forcing them to argue, be kinder to yourself please.

[indigo salmon]

this is my idea that I didn't like a lot, not some kind of argument board, either way, mods can we delete this thread please?

[past sky]

I don't read below the first post. Gimmie your drone ideas.

[indigo salmon]

squeegy, please, I don't care anymore