Preparing for the CAS1 PROPFAN

[slow stream]

i guess, it's also quite agile

[shadow ruin]

there are plenty of ways to tweak the Compass without “ruining it”

furthermore this knee jerk reaction to touching the Compass is half of the problem itself. If this was the Ifrit, or the Revoker, it would be cheered on

This isn’t a problem in competitive- it’s a problem game-wide. You’re rarely going to be as cost efficient as spamming a Compass not only in NOCS, but also in casual PVP and casual PVE

Its not an aircraft that, conceptually, should be punching above its weight class to the extent that it is

[glossy granite]

only allow IRs for specific hardpoint/slots

[slow stream]

like only at the end of the wing

[median tangle]

you claimed it is a game-wide issue and then named an issue that only exists in competitive games

i have never heard a normal person say "I love nuclear option because i love cost efficiency". people just want to have fun.

[glossy granite]

yes, and then revamp how IRs work

[dawn reef]

But then again, Compass is not so great regarding contested airspace survivability, combat wise has pretty low ceiling given by low engine power, so it cannot climb time-effectively, and is a good frontline while unless having favorable terrain, it's pretty risky for doing penetration attacks. And it can only carry one nuke and no long range ammo. I would not say it's match defining but it is truth, that it's a backbone of the airforce, standing firmly in front of Tula, balanced with Chicane (more speed, less hit per load capacity), AG complimenting the AA role of Revoker and far behind Vortex and Ifrit and feature-incomparable with Medusa and Darkreach.

In the grand scale of the game, Compass is our F-16.

[topaz trellis]

its essentially a vortex without the vtol, stealth, and a few less weapons at rank 1 that costs much, much less and can be spawned from basically anywhere

[shadow ruin]

Literally half the posts about the Compass are “it’s so cost efficient, I never fly anything else because the Compass does it all” and this is in PVE, let alone PVP

You can enjoy something and still recognize that it’s an issue

[wheat raven]

right.

[slow stream]

except heli specific runways, and keeping in mind it also has a high loiter time with the fuel economy

[dawn reef]

reminds me that heliports should spawn Crickets.

[median tangle]

I don't enjoy it, but I still don't support it being nerfed or tweaked unnecessarily

[shadow ruin]

Compass shouldnt be our F-16, and actual F-16 should be our F-16. That’s the problem, a subsonic trainer punches waaaaaaaay above its weight class in efficiency

[topaz trellis]

i said basically anywhere, not anywhere period

[wheat raven]

Honestly of the top of my head
if you wanted to deal with cost efficiency problems, you could make it so that the cost of a compass increases each time its bought, due to "supply and demand" or something. (Just for the buyer, though. Other players won't be affected)

Like its 21.5 million, then 28 million, then 37 million-

with the cost slowly returning to baseline over time.

which would rarely affect normal/casual players, since I assume that casual PVP games just don't suffer the sheer attritition present in competitive that makes cost efficiency such a big deal

[shadow ruin]

It’s more than competitive though- you’re encouraged to suicide a Compass solely to populate the datalink instead of flying it like any other aircraft

That tactic is broken in PVE, the jet is so cheap and so versatile you never have to worry about making a profit, so returning to base is a joke

[median tangle]

if the cost increasing mechanic is implemented so i would say the game should give you a few compasses (2-3 i think is fair) without the penalty, otherwise the vibe of a casual game can be immediately ruined by one bad takeoff or one minor mistake

[slow stream]

i think that's better, it encourages the player to get a better rank to avoid this issue

[median tangle]

and it wouldn't affect the performance of the plane itself so its still the same compass people like

[wheat raven]

yes of course it can be tweaked

should I make that its own separate suggestion?

[median tangle]

This is a good thing though. in PVE you don't have reliable teammates to spot things for you as you attack. it only makes sense there should be a quick and dirty way for you to do it yourself, otherwise the game turns into a unfun-realistic-fog-of-war slog where you get jumped by everything behind a hill that you never saw coming.

[shadow ruin]

this is not a good thing- you should not be encouraged to embrace kamikaze tactics in any manned platform, regardless of rank or price

[median tangle]

every aircraft that carries a nuclear weapon encourages kamikaze tactics

[shadow ruin]

The Compass is so cheap you’re encouraged to populate the datalink- suicidally- pretty much every sortie, regardless of what you’re carrying

[median tangle]

you said this already and i pointed out how it's a good thing. your only response was "no" and no further justification

all you did was stretch out "no" into a sentence

if you don't like it, it is your own responsibility to turn your compass around and fly back to base in PVE, NOT the rest of the community's responsibilty to have the entire game changed so that you can regulate how they play their own PVE games

[tepid oar]

This is not the case for the Vortex or the Ifrit.

[shadow ruin]

Or even the Revoker

A 20 mil price for a populated datalink is well worth paying in PVE. 60 mil or more? Not so much.

Let me reiterate- it’s too easy to secure a profit in the Compass while flying it recklessly and then you’re encouraged to suicide to populate the datalink for further strikes, instead of flying it like a manned combat aircraft

[tepid oar]

I would caution against speaking for the entire community.

[frigid bolt]

CAS dedicated thread turning into a war, yet again

[radiant pagoda]

2k+ messages🎉

[median tangle]

I asked for one player (cosmic cactus) to play how they enjoy. cosmic cactus is demanding that every single nuclear option player must play by his rules.

you don't have a problem with speaking for the community, you just disagree with me, which is fine, but don't lie about it

[ocean shoal]

98 IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!

[frigid bolt]

Something about this thread is radioactive

[tepid oar]

I mean, he knows what he's talking about and has positively contributed here. I do put more value into what he's saying on that what you're saying.

[shadow ruin]

Careful Dogpatch people don’t like me

[median tangle]

i think you have lots of good ideas but are altogether extremely unpleasant to be around

[wispy abyss]

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the game needs to be deleted for 5 weeks to make people depressed /s

[frigid bolt]

That’s a good descriptor for basically everyone in the server right there

[topaz trellis]

honestly the idea of a cas jet needs to be erased completely from the server and the game, dont even think about including one because it'll invite conflict for years to come

[radiant pagoda]

If not the cas jet, then another topic will take it's place

[median tangle]

So just say that. Next time, start with that. Just say "I value your contribution less because I don't know you" and don't try to hide behind a shield of self righteousness where you try to pretend to defend the community. Honesty goes a long way in saving people's time

[ocean shoal]

like the evil AGM-99!

[tepid oar]

Oh no dude that's me trying to be professional and nice.

[radiant pagoda]

The people need a place to vent their ideas at each other

[shadow ruin]

-gets mad at me for “speaking for the entire community”

-speaks for the entire community

I may be an asshole but man the irony is palpable

[ocean shoal]

red is sus i saw him vent a medical!

[tepid oar]

I can only hear "palpable" in Krennic's voice.

[median tangle]

i'm just putting myself on equal footing with you. if you can do it, then it's equally valid when i do it. it's not hypocrisy, its equity

[frigid bolt]

Kalkite

[ocean shoal]

kids these days dont know what 2020 medical was like 😔

[tepid oar]

The Imparities become quite clear

[shadow ruin]

“no u”

[median tangle]

you've just been waffling on about how AGM-99 should be renamed while i've been making meaningful contributions. that's what this whole thread is about. if you really cared, you'd be in the CAS dedicated jet thread making ideas for balancing the compass like me

[ocean shoal]

AGM-98* dont be one of those evil people!

[shadow ruin]

what? Are you sure you’ve got the right guy? I’m like not at all active in any AGM-99 conversation lmao

[slender marten]

Did you just called Mitch a evil people

[median tangle]

we are literally in the Dynamo Ashore thread right now. you've been talking about renaming Dynamo-99 to AGM Ashore this whole time while i've been busy in the CAS thread reblancing the compass

[supple solstice]

Guys what if we got the FAS jet with rocket propelled shells so you can strafe from 10km up

[shadow ruin]

Are you having a stroke? That’s nowhere in https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1379084457025339442

last comment: 7/28/25

[radiant pagoda]

Why are you so against swingwings? Have you never seen top gun?

[ocean shoal]

he just needs to see whats right (mitch when A-10?)

[median tangle]

you LITERALLY verbatim said that the compass is perfectly balanced, while i've been fighting on the community's behalf to have the compass renamed to Dynamo Ashore in the AGM-CAS thread for balancing

[slow stream]

https://tenor.com/view/monday-typing-monkey-working-hard-funny-animals-type-writer-gif-12177139

[tepid oar]

what

[shadow ruin]

ah nevermind it’s one of those bits

BAN THE CRICKET, CHICANE SUPREMACY STARTS NOW

[frigid bolt]

This thread is the swampy asscrack of the Nuclear Option community

[wispy abyss]

Chat is this ragebait perhaps

[bright lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-spongebob-head-bang-gif-15984525

[finite wraith]

⁉️

[shadow ruin]

BALANCING THE CRICKET: BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT

BALANCING THE CHICANE: INTERNAL SCIMITAR WEAPON BAYS

[ocean shoal]

BOMB THE CHICANES!!!!!!

[supple solstice]

Nmclean opternb

[wispy abyss]

The scimitar would just stall and hit the ground immediately after launch

[glossy granite]

give ita booster and make it soft launch VLS

[median tangle]

The Compass could be given a static variant called "Compass Ashore" that fires two Scythes

[shadow ruin]

lmao imagine a weapon bay built into the tail boom

[radiant pagoda]

"We are gathered here today, to mourn the passing of #1376833883630211092, it was a lively place, filled with suggestions, both good and, not so good. Unfortunately it succumbed to a terrible disease and we shall miss it dearly. RIP"

[slender marten]

@surreal echo please lock this thread at 2082 messages as a reference to Primeva 2082

[ocean shoal]

you should be president of the USA!

[bright lodge]

remember when we deleted threads with 600 messages for being drawn out

please god save me

[wispy abyss]

No one asked you to be smart smh

[glossy granite]

too late

[topaz trellis]

aint nobody reading allat,

[shadow ruin]

please no I live here

[median tangle]

The Cricket could be given an air launched variant from a Compass mothership that drags it with a tow cable

[ocean shoal]

9️⃣8️⃣🙏

[finite wraith]

Did dude lose the debate so hard he started meming? 😭

[median tangle]

@shadow ruin i owe olivefox an apology, i don't know anything about this game and i knew i was wrong the instant i started posting but did it anyway, and now olivefox says he has a headache from reading it. also i guess i owe you an apology for dragging it out for 18 hours

[frigid bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/robozz-electro-man-electro-gif-14636392030153133537

[bright lodge]

not from that specifically i just have a headache

[topaz trellis]

dont let gerald see this

[shadow ruin]

why is it droopy

can you make it… not droopy?

[glossy granite]

we've reached the Schwarzschild silly boundary and the suggestion has now broken down entirely, the only course of action is containment and disposal

[supple solstice]

They should add the compass to nuclear option

[bright lodge]

@median tangle does it droop

[ocean shoal]

do you guys want @median tangle to be the president of the USA?????????

[tawny nest]

They should add the darkreach to nuclear option

[median tangle]

i still disagree that kamikaze tactics should not be encouraged because MANY times i have taken out teammates by crashing into them and it made for excellent entertainment

[shadow ruin]

BALANCING THE COMPASS: ADD MAGNETIC NORTH

600 comments detailing the history of the development of the Compass and the discovering of declination ensues

[radiant pagoda]

Do NOT lock it, or it will spread to other channels

[glossy granite]

id love to see it

[ocean shoal]

but we must die for you in battle!

[bright lodge]

as moderator of that server, i volunteer to give everyone here access to the specimen container in the inocs server solely to save everyone here from this horrific fate

[shadow ruin]

Two containment threads locked in one day? Catastrophic

[radiant pagoda]

Can i get mod too?

[frigid bolt]

gib mod pls

[slow stream]

can't wait for suggestions forum 3 to open next time

[bright lodge]

nothing is changed

[supple solstice]

Suggestions forearm

[median tangle]

this is the worst war thunder forum i've ever seen. im going back to nuclear option.

[radiant pagoda]

Everyone save your suggestions to copy-paste them on the new forum

[bright lodge]

how it feels to

to read suggestions forum

[frigid bolt]

balancing the Revoker: split throttles?!

[shadow ruin]

You missed a fun one earlier today

[surreal echo]

huh

[radiant pagoda]

Good thing i cant read then

[slow stream]

idk i'm waiting for the thing to cool off and actually talk like normal

[surreal echo]

what is ts

[tawny nest]

Unemployment

[ocean shoal]

its our vietnam

[shadow ruin]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1400424937390473298

enjoy full server solidarity

Like an eclipse, exceedingly rare to witness without forewarning

[bright lodge]

they were telling me about that one in the greg server earlier

[frigid bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/rachyl-shortquake-pov-sunsets-healed-you-gif-7349890771166578945

so grateful I was there

[ocean shoal]

its when stuff gets popular (9️⃣8️⃣🙏)

[median tangle]

"Dynamo Ashore" could be balanced by giving it a reduced range compared to HLT Radar Truck in exchange for being heavily fortified. One way to achieve this is to drive the HLT radar truck into a hardened aircraft shelter so it can't see anything but is now heavily fortified against attack. Then we could renamed the Compass to AGM-98 and add the A-10 to Minecraf t

[swift hull]

honestly this is why I want systems that make it cheaper and easier to populate datalink without suiciding like #1396915039650185278 (shameless plug)

[frigid bolt]

Main concern with all that is the ever increasing power creep against air defense and ground vics in general, IR SAMs are so shit it’s not even funny

[slow stream]

is it over yet, can i talk like a normal person, or do i have to keep waiting for the mudslide to finish?

[dawn reef]

I admire your optimism.

[topaz trellis]

when will people realize that nothing else makes sense now that multiroles exist

[ocean shoal]

and drones

[swift hull]

it's not about making sense it's about having fun, it's vibes option

[tawny nest]

Ir sams are good for attacking ai

[shadow ruin]

I wish B25Mitch would announce a NO set in like 1970

then instead of shitting on suggestions that are outdated for current NO, we could just… push them over there

[ocean shoal]

mitch when A-10? (bro he said 1970s so why cant there be a A-10?)

[frigid bolt]

Sure but anything is good attacking AI

[median tangle]

I am SAM
SAM IR
Your flare supply won't get you far

It matters not my aim is shit
My 15 friends will see to it

That one of them will get a hit
And blow you into tiny bits

[tawny nest]

Yeah, i agree with your statement though. Ir sams are so bad ngl.

[topaz trellis]

the fact that the guidelines for the forum say no nerfing technology means NO at least tries to make sense

[slow stream]

not that it won't happen, but if everything that's more like the future is like just some kind of multirole stealth blob that can obliterate an airbase by just puffing air into it, then maybe i would stick to the cold war edition

[shadow ruin]

(It doesn’t have to be exactly 1970 anywhere from 1965-1980 would work pretty well)

[radiant pagoda]

SAMIR you're breaking the plane!

[median tangle]

it specifically says in the rules no proposals that are already on the roadmap. A-10 is already coming out in November so you're technically breaking the rules

[frigid bolt]

Honestly having them fire S2s or something would fix a lot, along with better sensor range or datalink. The most advanced ground-based IR SAM fires a literal MANPAD

[ocean shoal]

i cant read

[shadow ruin]

I’m all for separating the two, then the old school NO can focus on specialized airframes, SARH jousting, carpet bombing, etc while current NO can feature all kinds of stealth aircraft and drones n shit without having to shoehorn 1970s era jets in at Rank 1 and 2

[tawny nest]

Rn, ir sams are only bad because they have no flare resistance

[frigid bolt]

Goes for every IR missile in game tbh

[topaz trellis]

cas jet isnt confirmed to come out in november we might get an f111 at rank 3 instead

[shadow ruin]

Mitch said he’s scrapped the idea multiple times on stream and that there’s currently no plan to make a CAS jet

However

Personally… I still think he’s working on it

[slow stream]

i think he's reading the convo as we speak

[median tangle]

A-10 isn't a CAS jet, it's air superiority. that's why they're adding it. squeegy told me yesterday

[shadow ruin]

he hasn’t yelled at me yet so highly unlikely

[frigid bolt]

LOCALLY AUTHENTICATED SOURCES

[ocean shoal]

@ionic aspen show this man what you can do!

[topaz trellis]

we all need to come together in twitch chat and bully mitch into reading this thread to see why it shouldnt be added to the game

[tawny nest]

Mitch does not deserve to see this thread 😭

[ocean shoal]

mitch when A-10!!!!!!!!!

[shadow ruin]

I’d rather link him the earlier thread, that was funnier

[topaz trellis]

we need to correct his misconception about cas

[median tangle]

There is a 1/100000 chance for a photorealistic Tu-95 to appear during a game and drop a 50 megaton gravity bomb but nobody has seen it yet because everybody's game ends too soon

[swift hull]

it doesn't (really) make sense that the A-10 is still in service, yet it is. reality often doesn't make sense.

[glossy granite]

avionics test platform

[ocean shoal]

stop talking about the A-10!!!!!!!!!!

[swift hull]

I'm literally dunking on it lol

[median tangle]

Pierre Sprey told me A-10 can beat F-35 in a dogfight

[topaz trellis]

the a10 is only still in service because it has friends in high places, not because of any merits it possesses

[median tangle]

A-10 is on the epstein flight log

[ocean shoal]

i just dont want to say mitch when A-10 again

[swift hull]

The A-10 is an antiquated turd that doesn't really have a place in service in a modern context. I'm sure in 2070 there will be some kind of antiquated turd that is more modern than an A-10 but is still in service in lore and still has a place in the game, hell, that's basically what compass is

[topaz trellis]

and that shouldnt become a theme for incoming aircraft

[shadow ruin]

Think we can get to 3000 comments?

I’ll start: GUNPODS STUPID

[delicate idol]

i still want internal nukes for chicane
regular 250kt but it has a 30-60 second fuze
so you can gently lay it down and then get away unnoticed

[swift hull]

I'm trying my hardest

[slow stream]

when are we bringing the F 101 voodoo back

[median tangle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1240673511740149762/1400285563382399126/thewibbler.gif

[ocean shoal]

ALL HAIL THE AGM-98!!!!!!!!!

[tawny nest]

So basically, the a-10 is the supra of military airplanes

[ocean shoal]

im just going to drop this https://youtu.be/9cIptoe0VtA

[median tangle]

pick it back up.

[topaz trellis]

unforunately it seems we're condemned to get either a cas jet or supersonic tactical bomber after the coax so i wont be looking forward to the next 2 updates at least

[radiant pagoda]

The best move for Mitch would be to completely avoid the topic of cas jets atm. The community is absolutely feral

[tawny nest]

I want the next update to be focused on airdefense ngl

[swift hull]

compass is an old trainer airframe pushed into attacking and it's kinda the 0,0,0 of the game balance bc of how effective it can be, I think a cas plane designed around an aesthetic of "designed for an antiquated role" which is still balanced in weapon selection and flight kinematics would fit right in

[slow stream]

if anything, i would like older looking aircraft, i think stealth aircraft are going to be too similar at this point

[ocean shoal]

https://youtu.be/-cKK7o6BhDU

[median tangle]

F-16 isn't 50 years old, it first flew in 1974 which is 26 years ago

[ocean shoal]

and back in the day some planes got retired after 5 years

[swift hull]

I would unuronically love if the cas jet we get is just an F-16 but with a century of bolt on modifications added to it

[ocean shoal]

you know best because you are the smartest in the world

[median tangle]

as cosmic cactus said, F-16 is not a CAS jet. CAS is ALWAYS slow and low, not fast and high. F-16 is fast and high.

[slow stream]

even then it still looks different compared to all the f 22 lookalikes that might come out in the future

[surreal echo]

🐴

[lean snow]

good god

the time has come

[ocean shoal]

We love you <3

[lean snow]

i dont

[vague abyss]

Anyways fellas, welcome back to this monstruosity now that CAS1 has been revealed, all of the possibilities of armaments design choices and proposition can now be added in this megathread

Please avoid swivel gun pod arguments

Preparing for the CAS dedicated NOT jet

[lean snow]

Preparing for the CAS1 PROPFAN

[vague abyss]

Thanks AAA thats better
No worries im not making one for the supersonic bomber

Or am i ?

[ocean shoal]

AAA has more power than any of us

[wheat raven]

what
CAS1 has been revealed???

[rustic vine]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-eating-gif-25793804

[vague abyss]

Go on twitch and watch shockfront's live

[topaz trellis]

🐴

[proper bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-blade-runner-2049-jonah-gif-15461738203592622393

[delicate idol]

are we prepared yet?

[regal lagoon]

no

[gusty blade]

I think the CAS1 should get chaff

[jagged sandal]

the most important question:
can it blend broccoli with the fan blades?

[wheat raven]

it should get expendable radar decoys

small containers that for one or two seconds emit a similar radar signature as the plen

[earnest fossil]

What is the newest plane that still uses two forward facing guns, the f-20?
The idea seems archaic to me and I don't yet understand the advantages of it

[jagged sandal]

more pew pew

[wheat raven]

Do you count this as one or two guns

[earnest fossil]

Didn't consider this until now
I would assume it's two just Stuck together that share a feeding system?

[earnest fossil]

I thought he meant like two distinct guns on either side of the fuselage

[wooden rain]

It sounded like Mitch didn't want the guns in the fuselage.

[earnest fossil]

So it's one? Or is this like some philosophical questiom
I'm not that familiar with guns sorry

[wheat raven]

I honestly have no idea/the question wasn't honest, sorry

but yeah i don't think that any modern fighters have two distinct integrated gun integrated systems anymore

anyway,what did mitch say about the guns?

[vague abyss]

Gunpods afair with external pylons only

[delicate idol]

if they can't function independently, it's one gun imo
the same way m134 is one gun, despite having 6 chambers/barrels, they share a motor and feeding mechanism

[delicate idol]

marginally higher chance of hitting a shot
it mattered more when targeting computers weren't perfect

[earnest fossil]

Thanks for the Explanation

Still think two cannons will look kinda goofy but maybe I'm just sucker for slighty asymmetrical designs

[gusty blade]

1 gun = 1 ammo feed

Under barrel grenade launcher is a separate "gun" because it has separate ammo

[jagged sandal]

2 guns = 2 ammo feed = redundant pew pew

[gusty blade]

Classic break action shotgun is 1 gun because it's reloaded with the same ammo at the same time.

If you made some cursed break action with different gauges that would be 2 guns made into one

[glossy granite]

When the entire system hinges around the two receivers having to cycle each other, yeah it's one gun

[barren stone]

Honestly, at that point, why not just add a third and make it a rotary thing?

Would have the added benefit of improving accuracy, since you wouldn't be shooting from 3 separate locations.

[glossy granite]

because how the hell are you gonna add a 3rd gun and keep it mechanically simple, the entire thing about the gast principle is that it gives a single gun assembly an absurd rate of fire, which it already achieves with really good simplicity

[ripe plank]

Im not reading this entire thread, but instead of a gimballed gun or anything BRRRT or a railgun, why not a guided 57mm?

Would be something actually unique and fun to lob your gun shells over a mountain

[vague abyss]

Been seen here before, nice idea

[slow stream]

Im sure about this, but i wonder much redundancy works in the a10 bootleg

Of course this redundancy wont save it from a sycthe or a scimitar, but it seems to work well against lower end irs, not without a cost on performance and stability if you get hit after all

[mint epoch]

Super Tucano has a .50 in each wing?

[thorn sail]

id really prefer the gun be unguided, keep a level of skill and focus on it

[torpid viper]

Not sure if this has already been said, but this thing needs HELLA armor, even more than the compass

[thorn sail]

as long as an SARH/ARH is still +80% fatal and a MMR3 is +50%

chicane or tara durability IMHO

[glossy granite]

just dont get hit, should be fast enough for you to avoid things

[hoary iris]

layer 3 from the center of the onion

[thorn sail]

yes this graphic is for tanks but the logic still applies, just replace penetrated with damaged/disabled

[shadow ruin]

tf a heatseeker should eat this thing alive

no way a Sidewinder doesn’t one shot a A-10 wtf is this weird meme doing bleeding into NO

the CAS plane is even less redundant than the A-10

[thorn sail]

i mean i agree, but people won’t accept realistic vulnerability

[glossy granite]

depends where it proxy fuzes, then you just roll a d20 accordingly

[slow stream]

It should be somewhat tanky either way, otherwise any other aircfaft would suffice for the role

[glossy granite]

no

[ripe plank]

The hondajet engine mounts dont seem very durable

[shadow ruin]

“Somewhat tanky” doesn’t mean tanks a freaking S2

[tawny nest]

a-10 should only be "somewhat tanky" in the cockpit

[slow stream]

I meant bullets not optical missiles, it should be absolutely destroyed beacuse the moron who doesnt flare, in fact did not flare.

[glossy granite]

would be decent with having mostly empty space

[royal moon]

An S3 is what it shouldn't tank, an S2 is fine as all SAMs carry it now

[glossy granite]

i could probably tank an S2, tiny missile

[shadow ruin]

no aircraft should be “tanking” an air to air missile

especially one as vulnerable to damage as the CAS plane is lmfao

[slow stream]

It should be able to tank no problem an s1 at most

[thorn sail]

it shouldnt even tank an S1 to be quite frank, an S1 should still fvck your day up

[royal moon]

in certain areas only

[glossy granite]

proxy fuze MANPADS are sad

[shadow ruin]

This isn’t Ace f@cking combat the most you should “tank” is limp back to base on a single engine if you’re lucky

[royal moon]

I just came to put my two cents in alright

I don't have time to argue it right now.

[slow stream]

Thats why i said an s1, because ive seen images of an 10's engine looking like hell after reciving a bazooka rocket

[glossy granite]

wdym, missiles kill you instantly in AC

[shadow ruin]

Not if your name is Mihaly

[thorn sail]

yeah that pic was from a stinger sized missile iirc, so yeah the CAS plane should survive(maybe. if youre lucky) but youre 100% returning to base immediately

[royal moon]

If mitch wants a flying AFV in the 2070s let him have it

At least lets see how balanced it is before screaming nerf

[glossy granite]

Mihaly Dumitru Margareta Corneliu Leopold Blanca Karol Aeon Ignatius Raphael Maria Niketas Archange Shilage is a non playable character in the 2019 title Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown

[thorn sail]

no ones screaming nerf. were saying keep it realistic/reasonable

[slow stream]

In the hands of a skilled pilot, it can be a pain in the butt to have such glaring strengths

[shadow ruin]

or, we could provide feedback in the feedback and suggestions forum in an effort to avoid a train wreck of an airplane

because changing aircraft after they’re added is a Herculean effort, the time to give feedback is when it’s being developed

[thorn sail]

exactly why i was so vocal about my dislike for the design last night, now is the time to speak up

[slow stream]

Well, if you were to redesign it, what would it look like anyway (not that i'm opening a new can of worms anyway)

[shadow ruin]

Id really not like 3 months to blow by only to end up with an aircraft that requires the core physics of the game to be bent for it to be viable

That’s feels insulting after Mitch bragged about finding a CAS design that “works better than the A-10”

of course it works better if you give it magical damage resistance

[thorn sail]

literally anything more unique than the flying cross of an aircraft, but im not the one designing the aircraft

su-22/24 like? harrier is also fantastic choice

[shadow ruin]

If you held a gun to my head and told me to design a CAS jet for BDF I would have made a freaking Harrier, it’s a slam dunk of an aircraft design that fits the faction’s needs and level of capability to directly compete with the Compass

BDF already has the Cricket it didn’t need Cricket-but-faster-and-still-not-capable-of-securing-air-superiority

oof I’m getting salty now I need to tone it down

[slow stream]

True i would have liked a harrier as well, but maybe it might end up coming later, as seen by mitch's plans of not making a Naval A10. It's become an even more glaring hole of an offensive Bdf navy that im suppoused to belive in, but doesnt have the capability to be toe to toe against pala

[thorn sail]

god its not even naval to compensate?
ffs mitch

[shadow ruin]

That and the fact we still don’t have proper carrier escorts or fleet formations so BDF is turbo-screwed on TC because god forbid the less capable carrier doesn’t spawn within spitting distance of enemy airbases

6+ months of TC being an unbalanced mess has really ground my gears

[slow stream]

Basically leaving their main fighter out of the picture until late game is such a bad move when the faction split will eventually occur

[slow stream]

You expect something so heavy to take from an annex? Quite optimistic

[glossy granite]

it could probably, annex even has a big elevator to fit it

[thorn sail]

its STOL capable, someone cited ~105kts takeoff speed which is comparable to the cricket

hell the DR can fully operate from the hyperion aside from the elevator space, id be surpised if it couldnt

then it serves as balance to make you think about your loadout instead of maxxing your weight

[slow stream]

Yesh, but the runway is way shorter for a full loaded bombtruck to take off from that distance.

[glossy granite]

possible, full speed at headwind + NO's ultra efficient aerofoils

[topaz trellis]

out of the six a10s that have been hit by missiles, 5 of them were shot down immediately with the other being able to make it back to base and crash land
1 of the six was shot down by an igla
3 were shot down by strelas
the other two missiles that hit i cannot find any info on
the a10 (or other aircraft) cannot consistently survive even one hit from a missile of any size
NO's A10 shouldnt be handheld with extra durability just because thats the fantasy that exists in people's minds

[slow stream]

I still think s1 resistance is good enough

[thorn sail]

too much, it should be resistant to the anvil at best

[glossy granite]

my comment was a joke, dont care about durability when you can just not be hit, you arent a sitting duck like a chicane

[slow stream]

Yeah, and the ammount of flares it spreads is quite a bit

[shadow ruin]

If the compass can’t safely (mitches words) then this can’t either

[glossy granite]

higher AR wings, engines capable of feathering okay

[topaz trellis]

itll prob have more than enough flares to drop any IR missile that comes its way so being able to shrug one off is just gonna make it a pain to deal with without using radar missiles
hell it might even tank scythes if it's as durable as a tarantula

[slow stream]

But yeah the bdf is loosing the numbers and deployment race here, no way they are keeping up with the compass spam with the tin can with wings

[shadow ruin]

Far heavier than a Compass with fuel and combat loads, I doubt it’ll be any better

[slow stream]

Ive tested an ifrit from an annex elevator and i could barely take off from it. So it does makes sense why mitch would say that

[shadow ruin]

also completely misses the point that this thing turns like a boat and will have a handful of heatseekers at best, it’s clearly not designed to contest Compass CAP which is what BDF needs from the Annex early game- a way to stop incoming bomb runs which, right now, are comically easy to do on the first sortie

[slow stream]

It seems more like a general contributuion to both factions aircraft than being a patch the annex needs

[glossy granite]

could definitely see it doing better with flaps down and blown lift helping out even if its heavier, just dont land at MTOW like, every other fixed wing on an LHA

[shadow ruin]

yeah so “every other fixed wing on an LHA” is literally an empty statement

this ain’t Battlefield 4, nobody operates A-10s from the BHR (RIP)

Go ahead, name a fixed wing non-STOVL combat aircraft currently operated from an LHA, I’ll wait

[glossy granite]

Bronco

[shadow ruin]

doesn’t currently operate from LHAs and also is in a completely different weight class and we already have the cricket

so besides the technically incorrect exception, what else do ya got, cuz I’m drawing a blank

[slow stream]

If the bdf wanted to get their navy stuff together, they would need a heavy naval fighter, a cheap VTOL fighter for filling the compass numbers and maybe a CATOBAR carrier, but that's my opinion that can count as rambling for all i care.

[shadow ruin]

all BDF needs for naval balance are three things:

1. Harriers

2. Utility twin rotor helicopter for VERTREP (CH-46, MH-47, etc)

3. Proper escort surface combatants (air defense cruisers)

Boom, a potent carrier air wing and survivable strike group

[slow stream]

True

[glossy granite]

you can have this one im stuck in rabbit hole rn

[slow stream]

it's quite small, but something like the chinook fits better with PALA for a heavy lifter

[ripe plank]

I'd prefer to see PALA get a STOL heavy lifter, like the YC-14 with its thrust reversers for small airstrips, which can airdrop a whole IFV

[shadow ruin]

that’s a CH-46 not a Chinook

[slow stream]

I know, but it's still similar enough

[lean snow]

not armor, redundancy

armor makes it heavy, which means slow

wait that was hours ago

lmao

[slow stream]

redundancy would be like if the systerm can work without a certain engine, or that it make it home safely without an aleron

[lean snow]

we have seen that be the case on stream

it can survive an engine failure, half a tail missing, a wing outwards from the gear missing, etc

[slow stream]

Suprisingly survivable

I wonder if this aircraft will actually change things or become the compass problem with a new coat of paint

[barren stone]

I'm guessing the whole contra rotating prop deal is to make it colder.

And give it that iconic screech

[slow stream]

It also makes it a bit faster than a turbo fan, while having the same level of safety as one, it was tested on comercial aircraft after all, also its cheaper to run

[ripe plank]

This game is supposed to be playable on controller. Nobody is making 3km hits with fixed cannon on a gamepad.

[barren stone]

Compass problem?

Also; Thunderscreech went transonic IIRC - and the engine on this might be even better.

[thorn sail]

the other guns are fine as is for ground strafing, bar needing a longer PIP distance

just practice precise aiming deadass

[slow stream]

Basically the compass is the top pick of the early game, but its competitive enough to be in late game as well, so most of the time you see it buzz arround because you can get high profits beacuse its cheap enough.

[ripe plank]

If this is supposed to be an A-10 in the sense that "the gun is the selling point", then the gun should actually be viable in a modern combat environment, which it would be with guided munitions since you would become a very mobile field gun able to throw shots over cover

[thorn sail]

the gun is not the selling point. the payload is.

you already have (supposedly) 16x agm68’s, youre fine without a guided gun

[ripe plank]

Positioning yourself behind terrain on the rear aspect of a tank to arc a shot into its engine would be way cooler than any BRRRRT which you already have on the Compass

[slow stream]

The main gun is the least of its selling points in this case, i'd rather position myself in a good place than a be a faster tarantula gunsip.

[barren stone]

I fail to see how that's a problem- that's what a good plane should be like.

A bad plane would be one that just isn't any good as the match progresses.

[thorn sail]

the issue is that the compass overtakes other planes in pick rate way more than it should, it should be a good early game pick, not something you hang out in all match

[slow stream]

Well the cricket in that sense is a bad plane since you only see it in the early game being opaqued by the compass in all aspects

[slow stream]

High tiers should be flying the most at the end of a match, not the dinky compass with a nuke ready to suicide

[ripe plank]

The cricket really should be faster for having a 2000hp turbine, like a good 60-70kph more

[glossy granite]

maybe if it was aerodynamic like a Ta 152

[wispy granite]

Watch the "Escort surface combatant" be obliterated by 1 man sea skimming with an ifrit anyway

all this is gonna do it make them take 3 runs instead of 1

[barren stone]

The Cricket is a specialised plane. Unfortunately the specialization it was built for (COIN) doesn't exist as a requirement in the game.

And the high tiers are plenty good vs the Compass; but since the Compass represents a decent minimum viable plane for most fights - of course you'll be seeing people bring it out more if their ranks, money, or plane counts aren't enough for them to take a more specialised plane, or if the mission (such as ground attack) just calls for the Compass.

[wispy granite]

"decent minimum" is a pretty big understatement

[barren stone]

People often underestimate just how good the baseline option needs to be in a game.

[wispy granite]

it does half of what the revoker does while coming in at nearly 1/3rd of the price

[barren stone]

That's what a good baseline should be. Good throughout the game, punches somewhat above its weight, and can be used as a good option (as all planes should) throughout the match.

[oak solar]

tbf doing more per airframe is valuable given that players are the limiting factor of aircraft amounts. and given the fact that player time is thus also very important, the revoker's higher speed is very useful

[barren stone]

It's like the AKM of planes.

Everyone wants that gucci SCAR with the LPVO and lasers, but at the end of the day, you can get by and then some with ye olde wood furniture AKM.

And the existence of the AKM doesn't make the SCAR any less desirable.

[barren stone]

Also because people actually do end up with less money and reserve airframes throughout the match - and this is even more so for people joining in while the match is in progress.

A starter needs to be, more than any other option, viable and good throughout the match because that's what people will inevitably end up having to use at multiple points for a variety of reasons (and just for fun).

That it should be good at the role that it's ostensibly meant to do, goes without saying.

[idle mantle]

psst, hey listen
Rocket boosters
I have a feeling that new CAS probably would have something like JATO to help it rapidly and freely take off from tight space

[delicate idol]

the humble chicane:

[slender marten]

АХАХАХАХАХАХАХАХАХАХА

[thorn sail]

i wouldn’t describe that as “tanking” but sure

[civic saffron]

cant wait for a propeller driven A10 being the go-to anti-ship platform, while the AGM99 will still suck, until the heat death of the universe

[thorn sail]

truth, mitch would rather shoehorn his fav genre of aircraft than fix the numerous balance suggestions

[barren stone]

IMO BDF needs a carrier capable aircraft in the lower price ranges to really have a Compass equivalent.

Maybe a light Harrier style thing.

The CAS aircraft is really it's own thing.

Could even have PALA with the Compass as an all rounder and BDF with the ground based CAS1 and a carrier capable Harrier style light fighter as more specialised low cost options.

Would certainly fit the themes of the factions.

[vague abyss]

Vortex horrendous handling pre 0.31 ?
Scythe not lofting pre 0.30.9 ?
Ships ai killing itself on the sea ?
Theres been a buncha thing balanced and fixed, mostly missiles, recently G resillience and more

Also @shadow ruin if i recall the vortex had some extreme ressilience to missiles before. Im sure cas 1 wont be as tanky, we've basically only seen the hitbox model or lod model idk

[thorn sail]

100% mitch has been fixing things, but 4 examples versus the numerous old suggestions such as the ALND fix, the 99, the augers needing more of a place, the DR not having enough niche, the cricket not having enough niche, the lack of proper air defense planning or proper ground unit movement, or the vortex’s BVR, or…
im not saying mitch doesnt do fixes, however i am saying that he leaves a lot to be desired when we already have this vehicle in the pipeline

the examples you gave were bugs or oversights, things id expect to be fixed. what im talking about is fundamental balance flaws that have been talked to death yet havent been fixed

[vague abyss]

Squeegy said ground unit ai was currently worked on, im 100% sure the is gonna get love during the fast bomber update

Alnd is like all nukes tbh, a coinflip is theres air defense, just like piledrive

[thorn sail]

ground unit ai is only pathing to my knowledge, mitch has near directly stated he wants to keep the linear “convoy” system which is the flaw. thats not how ground units fight.

and while sure the ALND will always be a coin flip, theres currently zero reason to take it over a PD of the same tonnage that will be less likely to be intercepted, ive seen about 8x as many piledrivers hit as i have even seen ALNDs used, and thats a problem

[delicate idol]

bdf will still lag behind in early game air superiority
compass also acts as a fighter

[delicate idol]

i hope MP performance gets fixed sooner than later
it got better in .29 but 40fps and constant freezes still leave a lot to be desired

[barren stone]

That's where the light Harrier style fighter comes in - a more A2A focused early game option for BDF.

They'll still be limited by needing to take specific airframes, but the advantage they'll get would perhaps be that the BDF airframes would be better in their specific roles.

[barren stone]

I have noticed some slowdown on some servers, but it doesn't seem to be consistent.

Seems to be much better in player hosted servers, oddly enough.

[delicate idol]

my frames generally range from 40 (most of the time) to 20 in most egregious cases
though i've been getting seconds per frame in rare instances, since the last major update #off-topic message

[rustic vine]

https://tenor.com/view/super-troopers-mother-of-god-shocked-surprised-omg-gif-5431091

[barren stone]

Take this to #general ?

[delicate idol]

I guess

[quasi pier]

Honestly I get why a naval VTOL wasn't chosen for the CAS jet. The last 4 aircraft have been carrier capable VTOLs.

I'm happy with this being non-naval conventional takeoff aircraft as it makes a change at this point.

[earnest fossil]

Whats the fourth one?
We had Ibis, Vortex, Tara and before that ifrit right?

[quasi pier]

I thought Medusa was after Ifrit?

[vague abyss]

True, alnds are mostly a relic of the playtest

[thorn sail]

which is sad bc i love the niche they fill, but they just suck so hard

[earnest fossil]

The release order after the Earl access was chicane, Medusa, ifrit, Tara, vortex, Ibis

Which just Supports your point further

5 out of 6 aircraft are Naval and vtol or stovl capable

[quasi pier]

Like I do think that BDF needs a cheap jet which operates from its carrier. I just don't think that should be the same aircraft as the dedicated CAS aircraft.

[thorn sail]

um good? this is the way of multirole fighters this is to be expected
more carrier capability is always good

[quasi pier]

most irl fighters are not carrier capable

[thorn sail]

the good ones are.
bar the 22

[earnest fossil]

I think just like the Compass a cheaper jet would have been fine for cas operations if they'll ever be added

Right now imagining a slow ground attack aircraft with 2 cannons on it's wings kinda cheapens the Illusion that we are fighting in 2070 for me

Maybe the finished plane will look better so I'll wait and see

[quasi pier]

F-15, F-16, F-22, Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter

all not carrier capable while still being amazing fighters

[earnest fossil]

Sure but I would have liked somwthing bigger and Land based for once maybe

Super sonic bomber or a larger a2a bdf jet (with 3 engines🙏) just to break it up a bit

[quasi pier]

Trouble with the Annex is no catapults or arrestor wires. Which makes it not very suitable for conventional jets.

Cricket can get away with it due to being able to fly insanely slowly. But Mitch said the Compass was considered unsafe for Annex use.

There are still a few jet VTOL methods which NO hasn't tried yet...

[earnest fossil]

Yes it would need to be stovl
So a harrier

I'm also pretty sure we will still get something like that or bdf gets a catobar and goes nuts with it's carrier wing

[quasi pier]

I suspect that the largest carrier will belong to the mystery 3rd faction.

[earnest fossil]

Mystery third faction?

[quasi pier]

[jagged sandal]

no mystery, it is the
🥦 roccoli
🇩 efrost
🇫 orce

[quasi pier]

But as the Medusa already uses the Harrier VTOL method, and the Vortex uses the F-35 method.

The EWR VJ 101 method is still on the table...

[earnest fossil]

I think I recall somthing about mitch saying that if a catobar is added it would go to bdf but maybe I'm just misremebering

[earnest fossil]

It's fine to repeat propulsion I think

But I see that variety is nice

We are a bit off Topic sorry I think that was my fault

[wheat raven]

it would need to be quite low velocity for that

actually a dual feed gun might be interesting

Either have low velocity guided 57mm, or high velocity AP

[quasi pier]

the topics are definitely linked.

As Compass is considered the PALA cas aircraft, a lot of people want the BDF equivalent to be a carrier capable VTOL trainer.

While others want an A-10 like CAS aircraft

So even though it seems like a dedicated land based CAS aircraft and a VTOL carrier trainer aircraft have nothing in common, the two camps are at complete odds with each other.

Personally I feel there is room for both

[earnest fossil]

There is room for both but I still would have liked the cas1 not to be added

I just can't get over the two singel barrel guns that will be on it's wings

It just reminds me of a ww2 dive bomber and cheapens the futuristic feel of the game

[quasi pier]

I assume it's an aircraft that was made 50 years ago in the lore and keeps failing to be retired.

Irl we often use heavily outdated aircraft.

The A-10 is still in use as nothing really competes with how cheap it is for how much damage it can put out.

Sure the F-35 can do the same job, but for 10x the price.

[earnest fossil]

They are activly trying to retire it for at least a decade I think

It just has a lot of friends in the right places because of it reputation

I also don't see such an aircraft being designed in the 2020s for it to be 50 years old

But maybe I just need to accept that this game is a bit more fictional than what I assumed and get over it

[quasi pier]

i suspect it will be pretty effective in game. could easily end up as this cheap 750kph thing which lobs 30 agm-48s in the general direction of the enemy

[earnest fossil]

In PvE yes absolutly it will be effective

PvP maybe less so but it will have it's uses

I don't doubt that

[wispy granite]

Tarantula then, sometimes I take an IRM in a tarantula and just fly straight on to the destination, call it a lucky break but it does do that much more than others

[vague abyss]

Speaking of tanking, irl cas aircraft (the A-sin of life-10 and su-25 mostly) tanked some shells and kept flying. Im sure the damage model will be tweaked, now another idea directly stolen from cosmic's posts : eots ?

[wispy granite]

Probably just small-medium caliber (12.7-30mm)

And don't we have EODAS anyway?

[vague abyss]

Very rudimentary eodas, maybe the cas1 could get the "best" optical zoom in the game

[thorn sail]

and completely dethrone the cricket? making it even more obsolete?

[earnest fossil]

I mean it's also huge and has 4 engines

[vague abyss]

Cricket is literraly just made for the start of each game, cas1 could have a slightly higher optical zoom than the compass, and the cricket still is the best budget plane in the game

[thorn sail]

no one plays the cricket for budget, thats the compass.
currently other than fun and “challenge” theres zero reason to pick the cricket, especially considering most missions/servers start you out with enough for a compass or even chicane, i love the cricket but objectively shes been left in the dust and i hate to see it

[quasi pier]

I pick the Cricket as it's cute.

[thorn sail]

me too, im in no way hating on the cricket bc its my second favorite aircraft in the game, however to say that she has any real place in the game is just false. imo she needs a much better niche and its why i think the compass needs to be swapped with the chicane in rank

[quasi pier]

i'd love for them to sell a 3d print cricket file. Definitely my favorite aircraft in NO

[vague abyss]

Crickets still have the shard busting avantages and thats a nice "niche" ngl

[delicate idol]

exactly
the 10m difference is irrelevant, you're better off just waiting a bit longer for passive income, compass will make up for that with it's higher top speed regardless
tbh compass may require a price increase at some point, i don't see why it should be so much cheaper than a chicane

[thorn sail]

if you think the cricket is notably better at shard hunting than anything other than the rotorcraft… idk what to tell you..

[vague abyss]

It was before the multipath got nuked :>

[thorn sail]

even then its not hard to sea skim with any other, faster, aircraft, notably the compass which currently outshines the cricket in nearly every aspect besides fun (fvck the compass)

[slow stream]

I mean you could use the X32's flight system, there's a particular aircraft i like that would also fit it as well.

[vague abyss]

Your job to make a "balancing the compass" now :D

[delicate idol]

balancing the compass saga: part 1/5

[thorn sail]

they wouldnt like that…

rply to vintage: no… thats the least of the issue actually..

[slow stream]

All you need to do to balance the compass is to remove its nukes. And also limiting its ir missile capabilities even more.

[vague abyss]

And probably scythes as well

[slow stream]

And after those changes, itll be armed like how a conventional trainer would be used in war.

[quasi pier]

Any idea if the big guns on the new propfan are removable?

[slow stream]

One of them is integrated while another is a gunpod

[earnest fossil]

The two 35 are integrated the smaller rotary one is probably the 25 mm pod from the compass

[scarlet dew]

I sure in future CAS airplanes main guns must be little flexible to making faster aim to target and destroy, and, of course to not be a easy target too long time

[topaz trellis]

in the future guns are gonna be a last resort for CAS just like they are in the present
missiles are and always will be the better option for CAS

[wheat raven]

oh yaeh
tarantulas can also just tank scythes as well

[jagged sandal]

the op chad ai tarantula when it flanks sandrift, flies over the airbase and deletes every ground unit

[slow stream]

Could have the same hinge as a helicopter gunpod

[shadow ruin]

The A-10’s gun isnt viable in a modern combat environment

[royal moon]

JATO

[delicate idol]

annex must receive it's Cope Slope™ upgrade package post haste, in order to accomodate it

[half root]

JATO is pretty hard on the airframe from my understanding. I’m also not sure how the CAS1 compares to the Annex size-wise. It seems like a pain to store.

[barren stone]

I don't think this thing seems carrier capable TbH.

I want me Harrier

[slow stream]

For me it seems it has a similar wingspan ss the ifrit while having a way narrower body than it.

[wispy granite]

Tbh it seems like mitch is intentionally pushing for PALA to have the naval advantage, at least in terms of aircraft launching

[shadow ruin]

and also in separating the BDF Annex’s from their Dyanmos while PALA starts with an actual CSG on TC

absolutely insane balancing choice IMO, and even nuttier to ignore it for over 6 months

[wispy granite]

Probably the start of true doctrinal differences between the 2 factions

[barren stone]

I feel like both factions should have the same overall capability (on the whole) so maps don't end up favouring one faction or another.

But they should have their own approaches in order to really bring out the differences between them.

So stuff like PALA using export frames that try to do a lot, while BDF goes with somewhat more focused domestic airframes

[wispy granite]

We're getting off topic, but just 1 more remark, the Annex isn't really that good at assaulting a landing site and landing troops, which is like... Its entire thing. The feature is so useless I've never seen it used once in a normal terminal control PVP match.

It's not fast, it's not good at air defense, it's no good in land attack either, and it gets outperformed by the hyperion just by not being able to carry compasses and ifrits.

[barren stone]

Gotta agree there.

The thing is, rather ironically, pretty shite at assaulting stuff.

[shadow ruin]

that’s not doctrinal differences that’s absolute idiocy, both on behalf of BDF in lore and from whoever thought that was good balance for the gamemode

[slow stream]

PALA has an advantage in the early game, because by the time the first vortexes roll out of the annex, the hyperion will have overwhelmed it with a bunch of compasses flying with a bunch of agm's each

[wispy granite]

I mean there's only 2 ways of justifying this, either the Annex is part of a TF meant to front an assault, with a larger carrier operating elsewhere to pick up most of the Air superiority role, or it's just that the BDF ONLY has the Annex and this is the formation they're most used to operating

[shadow ruin]

Even if it was part of an ESG it still should have DDG escort, not have the Dynamos spawn half a map away

[slow stream]

wish it had one, that way we could launch future heavy bdf aircraft (wich it does need at some point)

[glossy granite]

Rafale M

[quasi pier]

A VTOL trainer or light fighter would be a good plane to give to the BDF
operate off the Annex earlier game.

Either that or something which cane takeoff and land at really low speeds without being VTOL. Massive flaps, wing extensions, and thrust reversers

[slow stream]

https://tenor.com/view/god-i-love-trampoling-av-8-gif-6897117726225947782

[quasi pier]

I wonder if a cheaper jet VTOL would be possible. Harrier would probrably cost a lot more than the compass

[slow stream]

it' was 30 million or lesss a piece back then it was produced

[quasi pier]

in game i could see a harrier being anything between 30-40 million

[slow stream]

i'd see it 32 million at worst

[shadow ruin]

even if you jacked up the price, as long as it’s cheaper than the starting amount it’s competitive with the Compass, because BDF teams will be able to defend their Annexes on the first sortie

[civic saffron]

i think that a harrier/yak38 style jet, so a less expensive, non-stealthy, multirole jet, even if subsonic, with some expanded a2g options compared to the revoker, would be more than fine

[wheat raven]

8x kingpin mount and expanded lasing capabilities

[civic saffron]

yeah, and maybe 4xagm48 mount

[delicate idol]

triple agm68 racks or bust

[slender marten]

Kinda confirmed

[delicate idol]

I wouldn't call it tanking when it comes to tarantula
It's more that 90% of it is hollow, so you're unlikely to hit anything important (I don't think it even has fuel tanks)

[delicate idol]

some aspects don't become so easily outdated
take the b52, it's only job is to bring several tons (of payload) to the right place, everything else is almost irrelevant (excluding countermeasures, I suppose)
30 tons in the 1950s is still 30 tons today

[tawny nest]

We dont have proper carrier escorts due to dynamo ashm spam

[delicate idol]

ok since bdf is doomed to have a worse carrier
how about making them better at establishing FOBs somehow
because the hovercrafts definitely don't make up for a weaker carrier

'ight
hear me out, jacknife hovercrafts

[tawny nest]

what

[ocean shoal]

They said "hear me out" so what am i supposed to say?

[tawny nest]

pass

[delicate idol]

smash

[ocean shoal]

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!

[earnest fossil]

yes but the b52 also doesn't have to fly in contested air space to spam cruise missiles

[quasi pier]

As the Hyperion is so much better at defending itself from oncoming munitions, I feel that BDF needs some kind of escort ship to do that more effectivly.

As the Shard and Dynamo are definitely not cutting it for BDF missile defence on carrier duel mode.

[glossy granite]

what if Annex also had similar defense effectiveness too

[quasi pier]

i mean the two carriers arn't meant to be completely symetrical

[glossy granite]

i dont see how that prevents additional buffs, one having to suck more than the other even though they provide the same role as capital ship

[quasi pier]

I'd much rather have the asymetry countered by something such as BDF having a great AA/anti missile frigate
to act as carrier escorts

[glossy granite]

maybe

[tawny nest]

Maybe a purely focused aa ddg with a limited amount of ashm

[slow stream]

lasers

[bright lodge]

honestly i could see lasers being bdf’s thing since theyre supposed to be more high tech or whatever

[naive shoal]

sometimes i look into suggestion forum threads and im not even sure what the discussion is
is this about putting a laser on the cas plane?

[slow stream]

no, what should a specialized frigate for the annex could have

[oak solar]

while i would love a harrier-style thing, the harrier itself is actually a lot more of an attack aircraft than a fighter even though it is capable of air-to-air

[ripe plank]

BDF frigate with dual-purpose railguns and scythes would go very hard

[slow stream]

What if there was a frigate that launched scimitars

[ripe plank]

Actually, not railguns. Electrothermal-chemical is more practical option for launching lots of HE. Mach 4 muzzle velocity would be practical with less barrel wear

[fallow forge]

I love how this is literally just an A-10 with propellers and an upside-down tail. I hope it carries SO many missiles.

[shadow ruin]

Harrier is fine for A2A, especially since the AV-8B has APG-65 Radar and 4-6 AMRAAMs (4 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders on USMC Harriers, for reference)

It would have similar speed, worse agility, less overall missiles but a (outdated) radar + 4 Scythes, which would be an interesting competitor to the Compass.

Some variants can carry 6 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders though that necessitates removing the gun

[lean snow]

this aint about the harrier

[oak solar]

i suppose the later harriers did shift more towards air-to-air, fair

[shadow ruin]

you read the comment I was replying to? Because that clearly was

[lean snow]

i know, im saying the entire conversation is amiss

[shadow ruin]

…you want me to dog on the CAS plane design instead?

[lean snow]

i want you to talk about the CAS1 design instead, constructively

the CAS1 will not be carrier capable, i can say that with near full certainty. you cannot fold the wings for good storage, and you need a long runway to take off, so a BDF naval trainer is another topic

[naive shoal]

tell me how many posts in this thread are about the cas plane

[slow stream]

again with the harrier, why not have both aircraft, they sure can perform their roles fine in their own lanes

[midnight oak]

2

[lean snow]

exactly, no issue with that

[naive shoal]

idk if anyone says that
one would be just a lil more needed than the other

[slow stream]

Like, if i want to carry a ton of missiles and be tanky enough and get there with basically a lighter A 10, sure, that sounds fun.
If i want vtol capabilities at cheap price (and the vtol will need to have some speed unlike the A 10), having all the flexibility in the world to make ambushes sounds fun, and makes carrier operations more possible, both aircraft may not be exactly perfect, but i still want either of these options so i can win, and to have bdf back on it's feet again.

[lean snow]

yep, i think theres place for both the CAS1 and VTOLtrainer1

[glossy granite]

trainer2

[tawny nest]

trainer 2.0

[slow stream]

i want to sit alone, i don't want to share my cheap ride with someone else!

[naive shoal]

I cant seem to find anyone saying otherwise
silly little thread we got going here
I hope the gun pod will be comically big and stall the engines

[shadow ruin]

mmm

well, if I was given a chair at the committee and told to un-pork the design, I’d start by attaching the engines to the fuselage. This would reduce the possibility of blade contact with the fuselage during flexing of the wings (landing, undergoing G forces, etc) and would also reduce weight on the wing spars and allow for more space in the wings to be dedicated for fuel.

Then I would explore reducing the frontal RCS as much as possible. This may necessitate switching to jet propulsion because I have no clue how to reduce the RCS of counter rotating prop fans, but if I’m actually attempting to craft a CAS aircraft that can somewhat survive in a BDF vs PALA conflict I’d like for it to be able to close the distance with RSAMs at least somewhat during entry into hostile airspace.

I’d redesign the tail to emphasize being able to survive battle damage, possibly through a V tail, or another more conventional design.

Most importantly I’d design it to carry a metric ton of modern standoff PGMs, not Cold War era AGM-68s. We’re talking 40+ JAGM/GBU-39, give it the ability to vomit a truly impressive amount of PGMs to make the downsides worthwhile.

Messier’s stealth CAS jet design isn’t viable IRL but it sucks less than other designs on the basis of semi-realistic-viability.

the current CAS plane is designed to “be better than the A-10” and completely misses the point of being designed for a war with PALA in 2070

I assume this will fall on deaf ears because Mitch is dead set on his current design, so whatever

[bright lodge]

is jagm like a sleeper agent activation code or something because you talk about them a lot

[naive shoal]

I really like the wing mount engines :)
possibly not optimal with exposed props but

Mitch really wants a plane that does A-10 things (brrrt and big booms and take a bullet)
So he added an A-10

[shadow ruin]

its an easy to understand weapon system that represents one of the most forward-looking-PGM-designs and it somehow isn’t a big part of a game set 50 years from now, yeah, I’m gonna mention it a lot

It’s like being in the 1970s trying to imagine aircraft design in the 1990s without factoring in the AGM-65.

[ripe plank]

I feel like one thing that would make sense for a low RCS CAS jet would be dedicated stealth external pods that could accept a variety of munitions, like this

[bright lodge]

ok but is it a sleeper agent activation code

im onto you

[lean snow]

epic comments

the current engine position really helps for survivability, as with a missile hit engine damage is isolated, with them close together you will have 2 engine fires

for maximum payload you will have to resort to external storage, and with that comes large RCS, making fully investing in RCS reduction not worth it

dual tail is pretty good for survivability, as seen on stream

this would be possible with large numbers of AGM-48s, such as triple (or even quad) racks of them on most pylons, or quad racks of pablos

[naive shoal]

they are neat :)

[naive shoal]

isolated into a fragile wing instead of a sturdy fuselage

there may be a benefit of no gun rattling the engine or smth

[lean snow]

the inner wing is not fragile, it is pretty damn strong, as seen on stream

[glossy granite]

kinda has to be strong

[lean snow]

also home to the gear after all

[slow stream]

i'd like my aircraft not being a flat pancake version of an f22, like if every aircraft in order to survive has to look like it, it becomes an eyesore when you are offering varied cast of aircraft and then half of it has to look stealthy because "the future". while i get this is the pattern that's going around the world i'd rather avoid it.

[shadow ruin]

the current position of engines won’t stop two engine fires from a single SAM unless the aircraft gets unrealistic levels of damage resistance. The 7kg blast of an S2 is enough to damage multiple engines on other multi engine aircraft, all putting the prop fans on pylons does is

a) make them more likely to take flak/battle damage as they’re more exposed in the first place

b) destabilize the aircraft if they detach from battle damage and add stress to the wing spars AND reduce internal fuel in the wings

you want to design a CAS aircraft that can at least attempt to operate in contested air to perform SEAD so that it’s not stuck on the runway for the duration of the conflict. Despite its issues, the A-10 was designed to operate and succeed in hostile airspace, not wait for another aircraft to perform SEAD. Low RCS geometry and a weapons bay is crucial for basic survival in modern combat, lacking that is the whole reason the A-10 is getting canned in the first place!

The current CAS plane doesn’t even attempt to pretend that it’s designed for a 2020s conflict lmfao it continues to blindly embrace the same faults that make the A-10 irrelevant

[naive shoal]

Im not a hater of the plane, Im a hater about the discussion.
❤️
Im expecting to fly it plenty
I think the justifications outside of Mitch really likes this design are silly

[shadow ruin]

Mitch insists it has validity outside of “design cool” so we’ll keep having this conversation as long as the blue and green flairs keep closing ranks to defend what is frankly a hilariously non viable modern combat aircraft

[lean snow]

the current position does stop dual engine fires in case of S2 hits, as seen on stream, this is partially due to the fuselage acting as a barrier

[shadow ruin]

because the S2 has a 7kg blast head and it’s hitting from the side

that is the bare minimum threat, it is going to be shredded by anything with a larger blast than that which is pretty much every other SAM and AAM

a better design would feature IR reduction as to avoid being shot at in the first place

[lean snow]

i give you a low IR signature from propfans and a ton of flares

[slow stream]

yeah, it runs pretty cold compared to jets

[shadow ruin]

I give you “radar SAMs don’t give a flying fudge and the prop fans make it even easier to shoot at range”

[lean snow]

i give you flying like a chicane, internal jammer and notching

[shadow ruin]

then fly a Chicane

[lean snow]

with what, a quarter the payload?

[slow stream]

flying a chicane is slow, if i want to get somewhere faster i pick a cricket. and the cricket barely can barely defend itself with a jammer., it's more likely to survive than a chicane, that dies to an optical missile

[midnight oak]

arent they like the same speed?

[oak solar]

there's about 100km/h in the difference

[shadow ruin]

If we’re operating on the basis of flying like an attack helicopter we’d be better off with an advanced VTOL because a significant portion of the Chicane’s vaunted survivability relies on the ability to pop up and hover behind terrain

on that note, the fact that the Chicane is missing a radar mast is really dumb

[naive shoal]

If the ingame description doesnt state boscali is just keeping this thing around for propaganda reasons Im gonna be sad.

[midnight oak]

damn i never noticed

[ripe plank]

Chicane is a 340kph aircraft, Cricket is closer to 450kph when loaded, but the acceleration is rather awful above 400

[naive shoal]

Let them have their propaganda prop and we will be back with a good supersonic bomber next year.

[lean snow]

then go make suggestions about it in https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1420436009568702476, thank you very much

[shadow ruin]

and, as I said, a good proposal would still have 2-3 times the payload of a Chicane in PGMs

[naive shoal]

[lean snow]

well we dont know this things actual payload yet, but if you stacked triple (even quad) 48 racks on every pylon it would sure be a lot more than the chicane

[shadow ruin]

you asked for constructive and I actually gave you some constructive feedback, but it sounds like you just wanna fight me on every concept

that’s not very constructive, shame

[lean snow]

your feedback is to change the entire design to something else

[naive shoal]

tbh
its an a10
valid feedback

[waxen musk]

So we want to redesign the propfan aircraft to be a jet fighter?
And not like a counterpart of sorts to the cricket?

[lean snow]

well it wont really be a counterpart to the cricket, i see this carrying like 2.5x what the compass can

[waxen musk]

Its performance wont be like the compass considering the compass do more than cas

[shadow ruin]

I went through step by step with major design issues

what, you want me to recommend a different paint job or something?

the aircraft is conceptually flawed for the setting and conflict it was designed and operated in

[slow stream]

it'd basically be a flatter and fatter ifrit

[waxen musk]

The cricket is flawed for this mess

[ripe plank]

I still think a large caliber guided gun is the best way to distinguish and balance this aircraft. Guided shells is a sort of BDF trademark, and indirect large volume fire gives it the ability to hide its walmart sized RCS behind terrain, and also make low-drag loadouts that let you hit 900+ kph viable if you want to move about the battlefield at jet speeds.

[naive shoal]

If Mitch just said hes adding it because its cool as hell even if a bit like a polarbear in bum idaho, people wouldnt complain much I think.

[slow stream]

the chicane can be flawed too, why even bother with a heli when it's not going fast enough to get from point a to b, while it dies to AGM's that's really flawed.

[barren stone]

On the topic of the Chicane - thing is actually not very good at pop up with how much it dislikes having to decelerate.

[shadow ruin]

Yeah the defense of “it’s better than the A-10 and fits the setting!” Is what kickstarted my participation

[naive shoal]

The only way I could justify it in the setting would be if they had them before Primeva became rich, it may have been enough against the little farmer country.
But yeah you dont want A-10s around even if they got better sensors if pala is rocking up with a hyperion full of ifrits.

Maybe they dont wanna retire it for propaganda reasons like the A-10.

[barren stone]

Would just be a lighter, carrier mounted, more A2A focused low tier plane for the BDF; giving them a nimble all round option that couldn't carry as much but has vectored thrust and can better take on the more A2A focused stuff that the Compass does.

Conceptually, both factions should have options at that tier that can allow them an equal amount of capability, because that's something both of them will inevitably need at many different stages.

[naive shoal]

I could imagine the cas1 was taken out of storage or smth

[midnight oak]

it looks too advanced for that (imo)

[barren stone]

It's more that this is somehow supposed to be what the BDF manages with against the Compass - which in terms of capabilities it allows for the faction is just an order of magnitude better thanks to the carrier capability.

And lacking a relatively nimble, carrier capable option at that tier would be a pretty massive weakness, and not a good thing for the faction as a whole.

Which is why I want to see the BDF get something carrier capable at this tier, instead of ending up with a land locked CAS plane.

[naive shoal]

The design right now has nothing advanced, we will have to see when it has a proper model 👍

[waxen musk]

I dont get the comparison with the compass. The damn thing doesnt look like its as capable with the compass for air to air roles
Ground attack sure

[midnight oak]

the reversed props and tail make it look advanced to me

[slow stream]

as i'm saying. why not have both? the us already does this. Like also if a model is mundane and and not stealth, that lowers the price a lot, but what you pay is your gigantic rcs with anyone on the map knowing so.

[barren stone]

I keep hearing that this is going to be the BDF answer to the Compass - and that's what I have an issue with.

As a plane by itself, it's okay.

As what the BDF would have in response to the Compass, if there's nothing else carrier focused at that level and price point; it's bad.

[slow stream]

it's the bombtruck that the compass provides sometimes, jus greatly exagerated. And also if i wanted it taken seriously, make it able to carry at least 4 radar guided missiles on the center pylons, that way it won't get bullied

[waxen musk]

Still a stupid idea to say its a bdf response to what's basically a light trainer jet with combat air patrol capability
Like the Fa 50

[fervent field]

BDF compass counterpart would pretty much exactly match the harrier

[opaque grove]

I think BDF version of Compass would be slightly above, not below, Compass. if it's a prop (prop fan, turboprop, whatever) it would perhaps risk being too close to Cricket (and therefore below Compass and fail to fill the BDF gap between cricket and Vortex)

[slow stream]

https://tenor.com/view/god-i-love-trampoling-av-8-gif-6897117726225947782

[fervent field]

I’m just hoping the CAS1 brings something new to the table, I’m not really sure how it’ll differentiate itself from other aircraft unless this is going to be the only BDF aircraft with a massive count of A2G

[barren stone]

Attack jet with CAP capability that is carrier capable.

All these 3 capabilities need to exist at that price point for both factions IMO.

Compass has it covered for PALA. IMO BDF should have 2 specialised airframes that come at the cost of being worse all rounders, if we're taking the CAS plane as one half of that duo.

The other half needs to be a light, CAP capable, carrier aircraft.

And yes, Harrier does fit that bill near perfectly. And goes with the whole VTOL theme that the BDF has going.

[fervent field]

I can’t remember, is Revoker going BDF?

[patent cedar]

yes

[opaque grove]

my guess is similar to what cool_lad said, but more specifically:

1. subsonic jet
2. STOVL carrier compatible
3. attacker with a degree of A2A capability
4. working, but not top notch, stealth level.

[dire spear]

In 2070?

This is an aircraft we could build...not now, not if you want to do off-the-shelf, but in like ten years at most. Propfans aren't new, they just got canned when the oil crisis stopped.

[opaque grove]

kind of but Revoker is a. not carrier capable and b. tbh being a bit sidelined now

[shadow ruin]

If we go purely by what’s best for the game- this, 100% this

[ripe plank]

BDF is supposed to be an expeditionary, heavily amphibious force, yes? It would make sense for this thing to be able to carry ten AGM-99s. Suicide to get within Stratolaunch range of a ship with that RCS, but that would give it good stand off capability

[midnight oak]

arent agm like cross map range anyways

[dire spear]

That's a Vortex But Cheaper, though.

[ripe plank]

Across Heartland yes, across Ignus, no.

[opaque grove]

Vortex is (usually) still supersonic even under A2G load, and best stealth in the game

[barren stone]

Been confirmed BDF for a while.

But that's on a completely different price point.

PALA could certainly do with a more all rounder airframe for that price point. A mid range, non carrier capable, all rounder airframe would certainly be nice to have for them.

I once had a thought of them getting a reverse swept wing aircraft as a Revoker equivalent. Not as fast or manoeuvreable (especially at higher speeds), but can't tip stall and carries more munitions, especially for A2G.

[midnight oak]

old but useful

[opaque grove]

Tarantula is too expensive to be on that spot IMO

[barren stone]

Ifrit beats it handily as a pretty much.

Stick the Ibis and CAS plane in there at their own niches.

[fervent field]

Without an overarching plan of how the factions will split it’s kind of hard to imagine how the balance will play out with the aircraft, but I really feel like the CAS1 should’ve been a subsonic harrier esque plane

[shadow ruin]

🤷 good luck getting the blue and green flairs to admit that

they closed ranks hard on this one

[patent cedar]

Having both will not be mutually exclusive.

[waxen musk]

CAS1 is its own thing with roles similar to the cricket.
The new compass counterpart jet wouldnt be called that name

[fervent field]

I’m totally vibing if the CAS1 is the first aircraft that just kind of pads out the roster without doing anything crazy new, and maybe that’s the purpose

[wooden rain]

Having a flying boxes level of detail placeholder like what we've seen of CAS1 for every aircraft in the final product would clear up so much debate over niches and balance.

[slow stream]

why can't we have this...

[barren stone]

Way I see it, both factions will need a VTOL and a non VTOL logi option.

So BDF has the heavier Tara, while PALA has the lighter Ibis as their vertical landing, last mile logi option.

But they'd both also have heavy logi jets.

BDF would have a lighter jet that's focused on quick resupply; PALA would operate a lot more expensive heavier jet that can perhaps carry a Radome and jammers.

Ideally Ibis and Tara would come in at the same unlock level eventually, for a similar initial price point.

[midnight oak]

bruh ibis and tara are NOT similar

[waxen musk]

Wouldnt it be the other way around?

[glossy granite]

we can only have 1 cake here

[slow stream]

if the little one is in danger, the big one resopnds, while the little one has better awareness and can signal who to shoot to the big one. the small one keeps the aim steady while the big one fires their salvo

[opaque grove]

they are both transport with light attack capabilities.

[midnight oak]

yes but he said at a similar price point

[barren stone]

Technically the same capability.

Logistics carriers with broadly similar speeds and some ground attack ability thrown in.

Tara is slightly faster and much heavier, while Ibis is more nimble and lighter (and can practically operate like an attack helo if it wants).

[opaque grove]

they will share the same price CLASS in transport airframes, sure, despite that's like 30m vs 140m. The fixed wing price range would be further different.

[dire spear]

This all seems to come back to the fact that the Compass is a Mario jet. It's carrier-capable, moderately stealthy, decently capable at ground attack and, with radar support, also decent at air interception. Covering all its base needs either a Compass-alike--which what would be the point--or multiple aircraft covering one of each role but critically deficient in the others.

[barren stone]

I'm saying either keep their intial cost (i.e. without some of their nicer, more higher tier weapons like the 76mm on the Tara), or pair them with jet plane counterparts for long range, heavy lift, logistics needs.

And that's a capability everyone developed in both forms IRL. It's just that vital a capability to have.

[waxen musk]

B but the cas1 propfan would be equivalent to the compass

[fervent field]

Has Mitch said the CAS1 is the intended compass foil

[hoary iris]

no
i dont think so

[midnight oak]

yes but the tartantula as a base airframe is much better than the ibis as a base airframe

[waxen musk]

Who the hell said that then?

[shadow ruin]

This would be fantastic. Alas, there is literally no indicator from Mitch that this is the plan.

[opaque grove]

you mean BDF having a bigger VTOL transport and smaller fixed wing transport, while PALA has a smaller VTOL and bigger fixed wing transport?
I don't think Ibis price range could offer a decent fixed wing transport...

[hoary iris]

nobody yet
(i didnt watch the stream)

[shadow ruin]

He has, he said within 30 minutes of the first reveal stream that it's (paraphrased) "BDF's Compass-equivalant... it'll do somethings better, somethings worse"

this is, as far as we know, the official BDF Compass competitor as of this time

source: I was in chat when he said this and distinctly remember it

[waxen musk]

Mitch
You twit

[barren stone]

Or both need heavier fixed wing transport.

But fundamentally, you can't have logistics capability for a faction locked to what's effectively a late game only price point.

[hoary iris]

oh ok
i didnt watch the stream so i was clueless on that

[shadow ruin]

not your fault he still doesn't do a stream recap

[midnight oak]

or you make a heavy counterpart to the tarantula and a light counterpart to the ibis?

[barren stone]

Unless there's another plane to go with it - he done goofed with this one.

If there is - then it's fine.

[hoary iris]

mitch should actually do that though
like the one bit of the stream i watched was the one clip of the first flight

[wooden rain]

They need to reupload them to YouTube

[shadow ruin]

Anyways, the best argument for an A-10 like aircraft is CSAR, it is an exceptional command/control/support aircraft for that mission set. I think this CAS plane will be fine for that in a COIN threat enviornment, but that gameplay loop doesn't actually exist ingame so the issue is how tf does it make sense within the threat enviornment presented ingame

[delicate ferry]

I would wait and see how the plane performs before consigning it as a mistake, the design isn't even finalized yet

[barren stone]

You want something lighter than the Ibis for PALA?

Anyhoo. To stick to the topic at hand....

[glossy granite]

spawn Escalation with buddy
Me in CASsy, them in Compy
Compy intercepts resistance
Me flattens Dustbowl as god intended

[midnight oak]

tf2 reference?

[naive shoal]

performance aint an issue
the setting is

[waxen musk]

The only mistake is saying it is a compass equivalent
A compass that is capable of light air to air role that the cas1 would find it difficult doing
If that design is a mistake for the setting we might as well remove the cricket

[opaque grove]

ok how about this: BDF gets a friggin 737. It's big enough, but it's based on a civilian plane so as to justify how cheap it becomes. (maybe 40~50m).
it can also become (very limitedly) armed with stuff like torpedo and sonar buoy (P-8A config)
PALA gets a C-17. Bigger transport and more expensive.

[barren stone]

I do have some hope with the talk of infantry being expanded on.

[glossy granite]

picture CASsy as a scottish resistance and Compy as a short circuit

[hoary iris]

god intended for dustbowl to be flattened, for it is the devil's home

[thorn sail]

people keep saying this but no, this is the PRIME time to call out a bad design as its early enough to fix it

[midnight oak]

dustbowl last 100 player server is giving me flashbacks

[fervent field]

Maybe the CAS1 will have a comically large nuclear bomb and will be survivable enough to deliver it before dying

[naive shoal]

i dont think it will have a nuke
its not survivable either
it can take some light munitions

[opaque grove]

any thing capable of carrying a GPO-500 will also have nuke option, but I think CAS1 would spend very few of its service being a nuke carrier.

[fervent field]

How can you perform cas without the nuclear option

[midnight oak]

imo just give it 2 more radar missiles than the compass and the problem is solved

[waxen musk]

You are the nuclear option

[slow stream]

even if he says that the compass competitor. i stll see most of the time that the harrier is as well recived as the A 10 is to the general public, he might consider it once the work for the CAS is done and if the aircraft is insufficient at it's role as a compass replacement, if we were to make them equal you would need to remove the hook of the compass and there's no way that's happening.

[shadow ruin]

...if the design isn't finalized why are there claims about how it performs already from the head honcho himself- and why are we not allowed to contest those claims?

Furthermore, I was literally just asked to give constructive feedback, just because it's not positive does not mean it's not constructive. There's clear conceptual errors (for lack of a better word) with how the aircraft is designed within the context of the setting of the game. If we remove that context and in-game logic, the whole aircraft is cast in an even worse light, because it continues to fail to address one of the major gaping holes in BDF's roster that currently puts the faction at a massive disadvantage in an entire game mode (TC) which still hasn't been addressed 6 months after it launched

I get that y'all are closing ranks on this but man, talk about missing the forest for the trees

[naive shoal]

no internal bay no nuke
unless they wanna change the internal only nuke stuff (remove revoker internal bays and make it slimmer in that case)

[thorn sail]

this vehicle doesnt have a bay iirc, so no nuke

[barren stone]

Honestly, everyone, and I do mean everyone had their dedicated fixed wing heavy lifts.

The USSR had the nigh on legendary AN series, while the US did stuff like the Galaxy and Globemaster.

Point is; logistics wins wars, and absolutely no one skimped on developing that capability.

They had their own takes on it, but fundamentally it was something they both invested a lot into having good options for.

[thorn sail]

lord thank you cactus, youre the light this server needs sometimes to light these dark halls

[delicate ferry]

you've made your point quite clear and the feedback has been received, go cool off for a while

[onyx hawk]

We're not "closing ranks" you're just alienating all the people whose opinions you are trying to sway by being a douche

[thorn sail]

“being a douche” is hilarious, lol, lmao.
“go cool off for a while” to entirely valid criticism

yall need to BFFR, seriously.

[opaque grove]

I suspect the in-game CAS1 will be entirely out of internal bay. BDF navy needs a good penetration CAS (=fundamental level of stealth) so I'd say it would at least have a centerline bay.

[hoary iris]

h o l y c o w

[waxen musk]

40 missiles.....

[naive shoal]

circular reasoning+kettle logic+green+homunculus fallacy

[barren stone]

Easy lads.

We all have concerns, but this is just the first look at the end of the day.

[waxen musk]

Compass equivalent still bugs me

[slow stream]

i think it won't

[naive shoal]

Im looking forward to the external gun mount that was mentioned

[opaque grove]

it would kind of need to. Unless somehow it retains that level of stealth without which I am highly doubtful.

[fervent field]

It is definitely interesting to see the CAS1 as the first controversial aircraft added

[glossy granite]

the first one was actually Medusa because some people thought it was kinda ugly

[barren stone]

It does.

But there's certainly a way to make it work, IMO with 2 airframes for the same overall capability.

And since the 2 airframes would be better in their own way, the BDF team doesn't get hamstrung overall.

[opaque grove]

actually what DO we know about this "CAS-1"? what part of this discussion is known and what part is speculation of different degrees.

[delicate ferry]

yeah, the opposition is understandable and the complaints have been heard in that regard I think

[waxen musk]

If the cricket is the one released now, its gonna be the same

[coral hare]

Hey everyone. Feedback on the plane is not needed at this time. Please hold your fire until there is something to actually talk about.