a futuristic plane only for air to ground like an a10 but stealth

[dire wasp]

This has been discussed, and debated, ad nauseam

[umbral hollow]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1227297803642867776

[wintry anchor]

anything the A-10 can do the F-15E and F-35 can do better, also the Thunderbolt is just really bad in a real war with IR SAMs and enemy fighters

[umbral hollow]

Well its cool admit that

[torpid quartz]

in fact the a10 was just to make you understand in part what I meant, this must be a completely new plane and for this reason it should not be compared to the one that exists in reality

[umbral hollow]

Brrrrrrrrt machine yes

[lofty lance]

guys we have the compass for a reason 😭

[wintry anchor]

well in general gunfighters are subpar unless players are ok with high sortie casualties from going in a straight line trying to gun down Aerosentries

[umbral hollow]

Not brrrrrrrt enough

[torpid quartz]

it is obvious that if we take a plane, change some of its characteristics and put the weapons that all the others have, it will be very similar to what we already have, in fact a plane like that would require new exclusive weapons for it in order to have something that allows it to be chosen over another plane

[winter temple]

mitch himself said that a cas plane would probably just be a turboprop and not a jet

[torpid kayak]

Why would someone try to do that 😭

[wintry anchor]

Clearly players who willingly play the A-10

[torpid kayak]

I play the A-10 a lot in dcs and I know several people who do and no one would willingly go suicide gun AAA pieces
It’s just a terrible idea I don’t see how you could expect many people to do that who know anything of what they’re doing 😭

[solid pasture]

i think part of the issue with an A-10 style plane in NO is the fact that there doesn't really seem to be any concentrations of ground targets that don't shoot back

in my (admittedly very limited) experience it seems like almost all ground-attack mission is a SEAD mission

[winter temple]

we could REALLY use more static defenses

I need more stuff to drop thousand pounders on (again structures actually worth using the GPO500 and AGM 68 on would be nice because those weapons are borderline wasteful in the current game)

more pillboxes, trenches, command stations and more detailed radar sites, ports with fuel tanks and whatnot, replenishment ships, riverboats and LCMs, Aegis ashore style forts maybe
I think this sorta stuff would make a dedicated cas plane a lot more favorable for us groundpounding point goblins

[wintry anchor]

I mean honestly i was thinking about entrenched tanks/ATGMs and also Anti Ship missile batteries could improve how immersive the world is

[winter temple]

oh totally, some Object 100 style bunkers would be neat

I think these are all more for the new map though, and i hope mitch is seriously considering or already working on adding rivers, more coastal and inland fortifications, and more detailed destructible assets

[umbral hollow]

Next dev stream someone try to see if he finished Kramenka

[magic parcel]

stealth ground destroyer sound interesting and good

[lean mauve]

here is how i think the a10 would work in NO: just like a slower compass, but with way more load capacity, and better survivability against IR missiles because of the huge amount of flares and low heat signature.

[torpid quartz]

This is basically my idea of some sort of a10 in NO

[torpid kayak]

Yeah the A-10C2 being able to carry 480 countermeasures
Though in nuclear option since there is no chaff that would be 480 flares xD

[novel aurora]

I'm not against adding another airframe to the game, I'm just wondering how useful would such a machine be in the world of NO.

IRL vehicles are designed as weapon delivery platforms. Literally just FedEx vans designed to be more fuel efficient than the weapons they deliver.

Another analogy would be that planes with missiles are basically 2-stage missiles. One slow and fuel efficient cruise stage(plane), one extremely fast, difficult to intercept, but fuel limited sprint vehicle(missile)

The a10 was designed to carry a 30mm gun.

Its whole design screams "I need to make sure this gun is used to its full potential"

But the problem with it is that its gun was never very good.

ATGMs and Rockets where always better than the gun against more dangerous targets

And bombs were better against anything that didnt shoot back much.

The Compass in NO and the irl SU-25 are arguably better at the kind of battles we see in NO, because they are faster, and carry Lynchpins and Vikhr respectively, which can (might in the case of Vikhr) saturate the omnipresent CIWS in our game.

Not to mention Ifrit blows all of them out of the water anyway simply because of how fast it can go back to rearm.

[umbral hollow]

The gun was cool you gotta give it that

[lean mauve]

in direct comparison to the compass the a 10 (in nuclear option) would be:
a good bit slower
have a lot more weapon capacity
have a 30mm gun (not too useful, against ground units, but useful against buildings and aircraft, should it ever get in a dogfight)
like what does it matter if its designed around the gun or not when it can clearly still rely on other weapons to do the job?

[novel aurora]

I forgot to mention that my post was more about the in universe lore, rather than fun gameplay.

As far as I'm concerned, the more fun planes we get to play with, the better, I was just wondering about the lore justifications. (which might matter to some)

[delicate charm]

Think about all the interesting non-Warthog clone CAS designs you could go with, though. What about a huge delta wing for great low-speed handling, plenty of room for hardpoints, enough raw wing area to shrug off aerodynamic damage? It’d probably lose huge speed in turns, but we have the ability to ripple off enough missiles that one pass and bail is a legitimate approach. Ditch the gun entirely for more internal space; I certainly don’t want to joust this game’s AAA for a living.

[crisp ermine]

i just saw a video laughing at people who suggest this, lets face it, the a-10 isn't a good for modern warfare. bad idea

[magic parcel]

30mm for destroying buildings? Sounds interesting...
Sure about weapon settings. Of course 30mm guns not so necessary, that could smth new weapon for world. Like... Lynchpins, but much bigger sizes(with same radius of destroying and smaller manevurity). Or... Smth another type of weapon... Maybe or weapon againts vehicles colons like casset weapon...

[lean mauve]

i dont see why it would be bad for nuclear option warfare though

[torpid kayak]

Like, it can carry hundreds of flares, and quite a bit of stand-off weapons. The gun is just an extra component for destroying soft targets after you’ve killed the AAA and sams.
It would probably be a lynchpin bus

[crisp ermine]

a-10 is only really god against underfunded terrorist lol. i guess it could work like the cricket but then its just a copy of the crickets job, or you could modernize it but then it shows little resemblance to a a-10 that all people want, it's really just want it for the novelty becuase people blow the a-10

i'd rather they work on making new interesting vehicles like the Tarantula

[lean mauve]

tell me why the a 10 wouldnt work the same a compass does, just a little slower and with way more punch to it

[crisp ermine]

then its just the cricket

[lean mauve]

the cricket carries a mere fraction of what the compass can, and the a10 can carry much more than a compass

[crisp ermine]

"The A-10 is outdated for modern combat. It’s built for close air support in areas with no serious air defense. Against modern anti-air systems, it wouldn’t last long." drones or bombers can do the job better and safer now the A-10's cool, but it's from a different time.

[lean mauve]

i wont argue about the a10 IRL, but in NO it would not have any trouble against sam systems, with its low heat signature and loads of flares against IR missiles, and it can just fly low (like any other aircraft) to avoid radar missiles. it would also be able to fend off any aircraft if you gave it 4 S3s

[crisp ermine]

any other plane in the game can fly low to dodge radar, and newer jets are just better at handling threats. even with 4 s3s, it’s not a fighter. you’re trying to patch an old plane when newer ones can do the job way better.

[lean mauve]

no, its not a fighter, the s3s would be for self defense use only, pretty much. the cool thing about what this would bring is an unparalleled air to ground load, only outshined by the darkreach.

[crisp ermine]

yeah, but even with a big air-to-ground load, it’s still vulnerable and slower. but you're right, the a-10’s strength is its massive air-to-ground load. even if it's not a fighter, the s3s for self-defense would keep it safer. it's not a terrible idea, and honestly, I wouldn't be mad if they added it. i just prefer seeing better, more modern concepts. my issue is with people hyping the a-10 like it's some great modern marvel plane, when really, it's just a cheap design that solved a temporary problem. people love it for the cannon noise and because it blew a bunch of terrorists to chunks, but when you look at it closely, it's not that impressive for modern warfare compared to other.

[lean mauve]

well i would argue the slow speed doesnt really matter if you just equip it (like any plane in NO) with a optical sensor that will warn you ahead of time of any ground and air threats, so you can easily stay out of their range while you sling pab80s or agm68s at them

[crisp ermine]

i get that, but even with sensors, the a-10 still has limitations. it can't compete with faster planes that can strike quickly and get out. faster, more advanced aircraft just have the edge in today's combat. picture a compass flying in behind you and firing a radar missile from a couple hundred meters away. with its slow speed, the a-10 wouldn’t have much time to react or dodge.

[lean mauve]

no, but the optical sensor (every plane has it in NO) would give that compass away, not to mention the datalink. i mean thats why the crickets are still able to do air to air sorites

[crisp ermine]

how fast is the turn rate for the a-10?

[lean mauve]

unsure, but pretty quick for such a heavy aircraft due to its great wingloading

[crisp ermine]

true, you make a good point about the optical sensor and datalink helping spot threats early. that definitely gives the a-10 an advantage that it doesn't have irl. but even with the optical sensor and datalink, it’s still not foolpoof. the compass is fast and can catch you off guard, especially if it gets close before you spot it. but that might just be a skill issue on my part, i don't check the map enough

[hybrid flume]

Why not a Compass II? (just update/buff it)

The compass is very fun but the lack of available armament really hurts it imo.
The compass could REALLY benefit from a beefier main gun. Maybe an option to choose between a 30mm (a GAU-8) intended for CAS or a 12.7mm for dogfighting. It does not have the advanced IR missile and I think it should be kept that way. But I think if it were able to carry more AGM missiles/bombs, then there wouldn't be a demand for an A10

[lean mauve]

please, dont use guns for cas.

[hybrid flume]

I agree, but it IS fun

[crisp ermine]

tbh i'd want an a10 more than a compass II, at least the a-10 will be original. upgrading the compass sounds fun, and using guns for CAS is risky. precision-guided munitions are way better for hitting targets. overall, a-10 or a purpose-built aircraft is just a better fit for close air support.

forgot we were talking about NO started yapping about friendly fire

on a side note @lean mauve did you or anyone else also buy/use a flight hotas and control only for this game

[lean mauve]

some people probably did, though im not one of them

[lean mauve]

if you are looking for a reason to buy one though, i recommend looking into Falcon BMS

[crisp ermine]

i already did, it was on sale for only 40 like two weeks ago and it arrives tomorrow. im about to go on a marathon

[winter temple]

What do you expect a future jet to be

[crisp ermine]

i expect future jets to have stealth, better sensors, and smart tech. they should carry a mix of precision weapons and be super agile, plus work well with drones and other support systems.

[chilly gyro]

You forget that worldbuilding is pretty important, even if in game it would make sense you have to ask if it would in lore

[torpid quartz]

But I never talked about taking the a10 as it is irl and putting it in NO, I took inspiration from the A10 to create an improved and modernized version so that it works in the context of the game and still improve the problems you listed previously, and who didn't say that a modern version in NO couldn't make it stealth

[crisp ermine]

i get you’re talking about an upgraded version, but making the a-10 stealthy would change it so much that it wouldn’t really be the a-10 anymore. better to just design a new plane for modern combat.

[slim flame]

why dose everyone want a stealth a-10?
just give a 30mm cannon gun pod to something, or make the medusa a attacker when its not being a EW plane

[dire wasp]

The children yearn for the Hawg