Little Bird Type Helicopter

[stone fiber]

As of right now we have one type of attack helicopter and its pretty heavy price in early game at $35 million. don't get me wrong, it should be at that price. I think it would be nice to have a light attack helicopter at around $17 million. It would consist of Flex mount 12.7 mini guns, for the Stub pylons AGM- 48 x 4 or Lynchpin x7 , and for the Stub Tip Pylons IRM-S1 x 2 or AGM-48 x2 just to give an idea.

[twilit temple]

I don't really see what niche a smaller heli could fulfill atm. Sure, you could afford it easier, but teh Chicane is already cheap as id

[stone fiber]

I do agree it would be kind of a niche Heli but I know personally I would rather run an light attack Heli than a Compass or a Cricket. I could see the Light attack Heli running in the front lines performing QRF Operations with out needing to go back to a base to rearm. If this Heli was added I could see the Chicane being more around $45 - $50 million

[inner wharf]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1275105665756434453
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1207340664237596752
But i like this

[lilac quarry]

Would be fun to have something extremely nimble

[wintry wing]

It'd be slower than the chicane,meaning not a single person would use it. Everyone complains about chicane's speed already

[stone fiber]

@wintry wing it would be pretty much be on par with speed (pretty well all combat helicopters top speeds are around 300km/h) . The little bird would be able to get up to top speed and be able to change course quickly because of its lightweight nature.

[near idol]

The game lacks a search and rescue heli and it would be pretty much perfect for that role

[vital roost]

obligatory kiowa mention

[stone fiber]

good point

[tawdry plume]

would make a bit more sense if infantry were a thing

[near idol]

Call it Opal

[inner wharf]

Opal yes

[vital roost]

people see a bird one time and get obsessed 😭 just put a kiowa knockoff in the game

[inner wharf]

I know I want a kowa more too

[vagrant knot]

it should totally be called pothole or bump to fit with the whole "road" element of the name with the chicane

[mental oyster]

LSH-28 Ditch

[crystal seal]

Gore

[leaden horizon]

this would be good if the economy wasnt as good as it is

[quick matrix]

People keep saying this type of helicopter would just be overshadowed by the Chicane and while yes it would, it is also what the Cricket is to the Compass

A (even cheaper) rank zero, nimble, light attack craft for early game spotting and engagements

[polar sundial]

yeah, a sort of cricket side-grade would be AWESOME

[quick matrix]

Give it optional mast mounted sensors if people want to do spotter stuff, it would be like an extremely cheap (and more limited) AWACS in some respects

Actually, setting up the 'hardpoints' so the mast sensor selection is in a 'support equipment' slot, which obviously would house the additional electronics for the sensors, and could be swapped for a SAR module or expanded weapons bay, or left empty for weight saving, etc.

Much like how the Tarantula has a modular interior that can fit weapon systems at the cost of cargo space

RE: Expanded weapons bay
Because I just remembered how conceptually cool this scene was
https://youtu.be/gkKjL2Tr6uI?si=QrCzgPyxoBuOcPGU

[trim schooner]

That can also be spawned by small ships, not Shard-level small (it cannot store anything larger than a drone) but something in-between 600 t corvette and 10k t DDG, like 1.5-2k t frigates.

[atomic thistle]

It would have to have some hefty pylons if you wanna make using this helicopters load out worth it

[inner wharf]

Kiowa

[glacial crow]

in 1990 dollars the Kiowa Warrior cost 6.7 million, which sounds just about right as a Cricket sidegrade
(I'm going to ignore that the inflation-adjusted price is 16.58 million dollars :V)

[marsh saffron]

i think it's worth it just to have a rank 0 helo tbh
it's not like rotorcraft controls the same way as fixed wing

[inner wharf]

Yee

[mint flicker]

If rescuing downed pilots is going to be a feature then this will be a good way to do it.

[lusty edge]

I could go for this if it was something more modern and speedy than a Little Bird-type helo, maybe more like Sikorsky's Raider. A coax rotor helo with a pusher prop for speed would be really good, and it works best for small to mid-size helos (as in it doesn't scale so well to larger designs).

Kind of like this.

Here's a size comparison, my suggestion would be closest to the Raider (center left):

[inner wharf]

I indirectly suggested it as a maritime operator but people said no because expensive

[wintry wing]

I hope we get an osprey equivalent at some point
tarantula is quite big and will likely be expensive
(not to mention that osprey looks better)

[lusty edge]

We need a multipurpose medium-lift helo tbh, something sorta like a Defiant or UH-60 that can be configured to do a variety of things. Light transport (maybe slingload one of those new light vehicles). CSAR, and light CAS. But that's not really the point of this post, this is more about a somewhat similar but much smaller helo with more limited capabilities.

[prime estuary]

kind of a different thing imo. I think something like this would be cool, but I see it as a separate role. This is very much more of a high-end transport helo, rather than a light recon helo.

[lusty edge]

Defiant yes, Raider no. Raider is more like a modern version of Little Bird in terms of size.

[jade bane]

wouldn't the sikorsky x2 or s-97 be closer to the little bird in size?

[quick matrix]

These tiltrotor/push prop helis all seem like they'd be quite expensive for a rank 0 heli

[prime estuary]

The thing is more than 4 times the weight of a little bird with a capacity of 6 people in addition to the aircrew. It might be a scout helo, but it’s a much more complex aircraft than a little bird. I do think that the S-97 is a much more viable option for nuclear option, though

[jade bane]

A little bird like helicopter would be useful in light infantry support and for rapid aircrew recovery, high importance light cargo/VIP transport and scouting

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[white ember]

Little bird is as little useful amounts of helo as you can get without going quad copter or drone lol, kiowa is better, or Lakota

I think because NO is at the scale that infantry dont exist, the littlebird becomes useless because such little amounts of weapons and such a lack of utility outside of bullying squishy groups of humans makes it nothing but a glorified SPAAG target

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[white ember]

Nick we get it

[lusty edge]

Exactly right

[atomic thistle]

Kiowawa

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[quick matrix]

KIOWA GAMING

[white ember]

20 km surveillance range!!!

[dusk river]

Kiowa….

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[atomic thistle]

Kiowhat

[glacial crow]

Kiowa could work tbh
Either you carry 2x rocket pod
or 4x -48
get out, scout, come back

[quick matrix]

For the scope of NO, probably give it a little more since everything is so potent
As in, a couple extra hardpoints so you always have the option to also bring S1s

[white ember]

A Lakota is better for a light helo imo, it a blackhawk, just please not something so miniscule as a littlebird

Itd be a whole hundred km/h or so slower than the Chicane, which is already known as the resident overfed chonker

[quick matrix]

you say that but the chicane is blisteringly fast for how big of a conventional copper it is

[inner wharf]

Lakiowa.

[glacial crow]

otherwise... what about a Huey? It is, afterall, the platonic ideal of a utility helicopter being armed pressed into being a gunship because there's no other option
and it's only the most produced helicopter ever <.<

[quick matrix]

Would be nice, but doesn't fit this specific post haha. Could make a new one for it or bump one that already exists

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[dusk river]

Kiowhen?

[solid ridge]

i WNAT small helicopter NOWWW!!!!!!

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[stoic tulip]

Yep, and the Ifrit in many ways eclipses both the revoker and compass.

Having a small, light helicopter at Rank 0 perhaps wouldn’t he a bad idea… but perhaps instead of something like the Little Bird, maybe it should be something more like the Super Cobra.

It would be faster and more nimble than the Chicane, but with a slightly smaller payload and a 20mm rotary cannon turret.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[dusk river]

I just want a bird with skids instead of wheels, landing gear diversity!

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[vital roost]

kiowa

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[atomic thistle]

Kiowa

[gleaming axle]

no do coaxial rotors instead
Koaxowa?

[quick matrix]

Coaxial kiowa...

[trim schooner]

Intermeshing-rotor Kiowa...

[gray haven]

Contra-rotating Kiowa...

[fading bobcat]

And yep. Dont show devs how could looks same helicopter with two rotary weapon. Like... In Carrier command 2

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[lusty edge]

Go read the suggestion rules

[inner wharf]

kiowa.

[dusk river]

Kiowaaaaagh

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[marsh saffron]

the next helicopter should be a single turbine single rotor skidded light observation helicopter converted from a civil transport model with a rotor mast-mounted optical sensor suite

[shrewd girder]

And with place for atleast 1 downed pilot, not like late modifications of Kiowa

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[gray haven]

Kiowagain.

[lavish viper]

Needs to be a NOTAR

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[fickle dew]

Kiowa

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[jade bane]

Get 2 tha choopa

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[gleaming axle]

Kioalm down!

[fading bobcat]

Okay okay. Kiowa type.
But in future kiowa must be awful.
What's about future variant?!!
What about CAS convoy killer?
Nah, exist chicane with biggest 30mm turret and 2 25mm flex gunpods... Even if he will have 2 counterrotors...
Maybe we will have one really new experience variant like naval miner(and unminer), which can deploy and destroy naval or... Ground mines?
Nah... Could be not so good...
So... Any useful ideas?

[midnight yoke]

Scout helicopter, swifter than Chicane but carries way less armaments.

It is the only thing I can think of for a potentially cheaper helo.
But honestly, you can perfectly just use a Cricket for the same purpose in that specific case.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[fickle dew]

Give it 12.7 flex gunpods/turrets?

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[fickle dew]

Kiowa with 12.7 flex gunpods/turrets

[solid ridge]

Give the kiwoa a 105 millimeter cannon ezpz

[vagrant laurel]

https://images.app.goo.gl/Shdmjy9XipGZXBB18

If you want one that is truly a jack of all for a chopper, it has to be the black hawk... it is decent speed and in DAP mode can be VERY scarry... like 20mm cannon, 2 gattlings, 8 hellfire, and 20+rockets (due to more then 7 per pod, with NO weapons only 14)

That said I want a very fast scout with limited weapons with a recon point system. I have it as a suggestion already, but more eyes on fast boy choppers the better.

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1275105665756434453

[fading bobcat]

i like smth between sikokskiy and noname first place style. They have cool style.
Whay about real future speed for helicotpter?
What if install for them engines which will increase him horizontral speed?

[vagrant laurel]

https://aerospaceweb.org/design/helicopter/velocity.shtml#:~:text=Due to these limiting factors,(400.80 km%2Fh).

[vagrant laurel]

There is a max speed for non- tilt rotor style choppers... eventually you have to become a plane, or you are stuck below 250mph

There was a movie where a chopper could lock a twin blade on top into a wing like position and turned on either jets or a rocket motor to go fast. Already thought that looked cool 😎, but would be way too complicated and likely to fail irl.

[fading bobcat]

Well well well... I think after 50 years we will have chances for at least prototype version of same type of helicopters...
Maybe their construction will be smth middle between helicopter and plane, buuuut... Must work.
And smth tell me same type of helicopter cannot be small...

[wintry wing]

eventually retreating blade stall becomes too much of an issue

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[midnight yoke]

What about having a target designator thing on it?

And make it so cruise missiles like the ALM-C450 and ALND-4 either require direct LoS from whoever shoots it, or somebody else "painting" target for them to work when indirect fired (?)

That would add a new little role to the game as a scout/spotter, and limit the ALM-C450/ALND-4 spam a little bit. Or, if that balance would be unappealing, maybe have some artillery land vehicles or static emplacements that could fire whenever something gets designated if they are in range.

The craft would be more of a support that way, similar to how the Medusa is more of a helper and/or AWACS once SEAD is handled.

We could also have the Cricket be able to have that same designator option (perhaps as an alternative thing mounted where the guns would be), so we have those target designator pods on the "cheap plane" and "cheap heli", giving them some extra mid-late game use specific to them.

The heli could have its designator above the rotor, like a periscope, so it can just poke out from behind cover while scouting/designating. (Yes, kinda like the Kiowa).

[inner wharf]

K
i
o
w
a
.

[tender sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/dcs-kiowa-warrior-oh-58-oh58d-gif-8383211749182238326

[vagrant laurel]

I think GPS targeting should remain, but as is if you target a moving target and no one has sight on it...you will likely miss, there is some optical guidance at the very end but it wont "hunt" if it cannot see it. I think "lasing" a target should give a buff to the damage, to simulate aiming for weak spots. Also increase the accuracy of bombs and even the 76mm.

Imagine a scout marking a convoy at long range and a 76mm fires say 3 rounds a target at extreme range and the shell all have good guidance at terminal phase.

[tender sphinx]

Marks targets for ballistic missiles so they can also be in the game😁
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

[vagrant laurel]

Ballistic doesnt need marking, its just unguided dumb rocket, just target a 16 digit grid. I think you mean just long range heavy missiles, be they AGM or surface launched.

[tender sphinx]

We are talking about a game set in the future tho, it can work lol after all what if the target is moving.
Could even use like MLRS unit to do this tho that fires a beefed up lynchpin.

[vagrant laurel]

Yes I was saying the terms were wrong, BALLISTIC means unguided. Basically big explosive bullet. It is possible to do what you are talking about with current tech. We dont do long range "lynchpin" due to the fuel cost to get it to go the distance isnt worth the small payload, so we up scale it to 100+mm. The smaller caliber unguided rocket volleys only have a range of MAYBE 15km. Heavier guided ones can go 100+km. I think the US Army has some with up to 500km range? Have to look them up again.

So the PrSM has a 499+km range and the ATACMS has 300km

[lusty edge]

The first part of this is completely wrong. Ballistic missiles are most definitely guided. Guidance of such weapons is usually based on some type of inertial navigation system for a variety of reasons, but it's there none the less. It's not always super accurate, but given that ballistic missiles are generally armed with either a large conventional warhead or one or more nuclear warheads, it doesn't necessarily have to be. Particularly in the case of the nuclear-armed ones, you don't need the same CEP as a laser-guided bomb to get the job done, landing within a few hundred yards or so of the target will usually do.

See here.

Anyway we're way off topic. I would like to see a smaller, faster helo than the Chicane, but not quite as tiny as a Little Bird. That's too small to be very effective in a game like this, you'd basically have 14 Lynchpins and maybe a couple of S1s, or you might could swap out the Lynchpins for 4x AGM-48s. Either way that's precious little ordinance to be carrying around when you are one of the slowest platforms in inventory.

[keen olive]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-58-kiowa-warrior-hover-gif-10632690314255263724

[gray haven]

Kio

[inner wharf]

Kiowa

or..

ARH-70 Arapaho

[atomic lichen]

What the hell is that last one lmao

Also the fastest helicopter is the 400km/h clean Lynx

[north moon]

generally if a futuristic looking aircraft is labeled with "?????????" as the name it's usually clickbait

[atomic lichen]

A speed the Chicane meets, but neither have a pusher prop. There is a suggestion for a higher speed helicopter with a pusherprop and increased payload though https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1296708606183477269

[north moon]

also it says "11 fastest" and only shows 4 so the one you mentioned is probably there

[atomic lichen]

It would be number 4, which is skipped on the list (it goes 5, 3, 2, 1), the 3rd and 2nd have pusher props. 3rd on the sides and 2nd on the back

[atomic lichen]

The last one isn't even a helicopter on the actual list, its the Osprey (mechanically a prop plane with vtol capabilities)

[north moon]

figures

[inner wharf]

Modern kiowa esque thing
Google it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_ARH-70_Arapaho

[quick matrix]

Forgive me for asking a dumb question but what I've always wondered makes the Kiowa so 'big' compared to other light helos like AH-6 and Bo-105?

More specifically, what takes up all that space in the back, and do other helicopters:
a. Lack that equipment or
b. Just have more compact/less equipment?

I ask because in the context of NO, maybe we could elect to bring more support equipment for better optical spotting or concealment or whatever

[lusty edge]

Pretty sure there's a fuel tank back there, and maybe some other stuff.

Anyway for all the crazies in here shouting for a Kiowa, how about this thing instead? Or something like it anyway.

[fading bobcat]

Woow. That almost looks how chopper which do my friend. With tail rotors to pull it forward and with gimbal guns. Maybe not so easy, but it work not bad!

[lusty edge]

Those aren't tail rotors, they're propfans. And this is literally just a Kiowa with a short tail boom, propfans, and contra-rotating rotors. Pretty sure that gun is also fixed, not flexible. In NO I imagine something like this could carry the 25mm flex guns, though I don't know why you'd want to. AGM-48s or Lynchpins would be a much more effective loadout.

[jade bane]

Until an aircraft or CIWS shows up

[lusty edge]

Well that's also true of the Chicane lol. Even a light helo like this would need at least a pair of S1s to give marauding fixed wing aircraft something to think about. Maybe it could have a center pylon for a single 25mm flex gun pod, or carry a flex gun on one side and missiles on the other.

[quick matrix]

Ohhh I see, the fueltank never got reconfigured from the original under-the-seat spot
Likely would of had more efficient space use if it was, but obviously not worth the cost

[lusty edge]

Well it complicates things to move it, because that means more CG shift. You want that sort of thing to be as close to the center of lift (the rotor hub in this case) as possible, so as it is emptied it has minimal effect on the CG location.

[fading bobcat]

Yes exactly propfans. I very like same conception!
I think same helicopter will can reach bigger speed than classical scheme of helicopter. For small weak aircraft big speed - longer live! Maybe he can used for fast front reconnaissance? Maybe same helicopter will have much better maneuverability. And maybe same helicopter will have smaller cost(maybe near cricket and compass) and even have 0-1 rank... Of course he maybe will have small RCS to evade by going low to the ground, like chicane.
If it will have speed near 500km/h it could be very good alternative for cricket!

[lusty edge]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[lucid thistle]

Yes Mitch please give me more options to hit with bombs 💣 🚁

[lusty edge]

Well a helo that's capable of 260 knots might be hard to hit with bombs (aside from nukes of course). But it would certainly make the Cricket obsolete to have a helo that can go that fast, unless it has a significant payload penalty for it. Cricket can run 28x Lynchpins and 2x S3s, so maybe this would be okay if the small helo is rank 1 and maxes out at 14x lynchpins and 2-4x S1s. Maybe give it a door gun or something, useless as that would be 😂

[gray haven]

what if - no turret by default, but you can equip 25mm gunpods

[lusty edge]

Well you'd lose your lynchpins, but that seems like a fair trade. IDK who would take them over lynchpins tbh, but having the option would be nice

[north moon]

you could have a dedicated gun slot and one or two missile slots, pretty realistic for a light attack helicopter

i'd say a 20 or 12.5 (maybe both as options) gun, and two 1-slot pylons per side (each could have 1x agm-48, 1 lynchpin pod, 1 S1)
maybe only allow 2x lynchpin pods, but tbh i don't think it matching the cricket's lynchpins would be a huge hit when the cricket has plenty of flexibility

less variety than the cricket so as not to stop on its toes, less sheer capacity and strength than the chicane

[gray haven]

what if it could get the gtg missiles from IFVs as a weapon? Might be an interesting and unique weapon for the heli, altho as is they are barely better than lynchpins

[north moon]

maybe to make up for the lack of S3 capability there could be a capacity for a larger top attack missile that ensures a one hit kill for tanks
basically smaller agm 68 ig

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Crazy?

[wintry wing]

doesn't look like a helicopter enough imo even though its theoreticaly feasible

[lusty edge]

Yes crazy, you guys know the rules by now. Asking for a particular RL aircraft is a violation of https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1207177464237920297

IDK how you have gotten on this long before mods started shutting this nonsense down. Of course there's never going to be a Kiowa in NO, unless someone mods it in maybe. Same for the F-14, F-22, A-10, and so on

[inner wharf]

Buddy
Its a joke
You think I havent read those
I want an aircraft similar to it silly

[lusty edge]

It's getting old TBH

[inner wharf]

Meh

[keen olive]

Kiowa.

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[vagrant laurel]

KIA-Boom more like

[gray haven]

Kia

[lucid thistle]

[dusk river]

Kiowa

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[solid ridge]

Ok scrooge

[indigo kayak]

Zulu viper is my fav heli so yes pls

[fading bobcat]

What do you think about same recoon helicopter style aircraft?
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/939446042746655053/1EB4C92D6133B47FC12FF2473292C286C5B1B7CD/?imw=1920&&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[white ember]

This looks like actual combat footage

[lucid thistle]

Lol it's because I've been able to figure out how to take my video to gif form but since it gets turned down a lot by resolution it blurs it almost perfectly

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

[lucid thistle]

For everytime I see Kiowa I will send that sticker

[inner wharf]

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

Kiowa.

[lucid thistle]

<@&1118065368657821747> I think we might need a cleanup here @inner wharf is just flooding the suggestion up with stuff that's against the rules

[worldly nymph]

for the record i didnt do this