#Allow EW-25 with installed Radome to illuminate S2A SARH missiles

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

autumn cypress
#

Although the methods of operation of the Medusa and Radar Truck radars are slightly different, I think that in the 2070s they would be able to solve the issue of compatibility, as well as quickly switching the channel of the reflected signal from the launch system to the EW-25 radar in case of signal loss.

This will increase the popularity of the anti-electronic, rather than anti-radar configuration of the aircraft, and expand the gameplay capabilities in defense.
For example, if the enemy Medusa jams the HLT Radar Truck's radar signal, then the missiles will be guided by the friendly Medusa's signal and shoot down the ARAD-116.

Of course, there are limitations, for example, the inability to illuminate targets below the radome, the radar's energy consumption.
I also recommend reducing the amount of EW-25 for AI.

For the destruction of the target with a missile, in this way I suggest that the player give a reward of 50% of the usual one.

Missile_homing.png
ancient ice
#

This is a more complex version of my just wanting datalink missiles lol, I support any missile networking though so I will give an upvote

autumn cypress
ancient ice
autumn cypress
ancient ice
silver seal
#

OH PLEASE YES
I need a reason to use the radome, you beat me to it on this idea

#

Also I wouldn't be shy of 100% kill reward with this, would make AWACs actually profitable

autumn cypress
limpid moth
#

Ngl being able to tell a stratolabce to sick some specific guy would make the medusa more funny

silver seal
#

Would also make enemy medusas more of a priority target

And help with defence
If someone has snuck in to destroy the HLT radar truck, those R9s are usually out of the picture. But with the ability to use the medusa to guide missiles, it allows for better defence of an airbase, if a player chooses to do so.

autumn cypress
autumn cypress
#

up

oblique jasper
#

Yea Third Party Targeting (3PT) is something that's already relatively common today, so this would really have no problem slotting in universe. I guess I just worry about balance. If a medusa can 3PT a stratolance to intercept ARADs and such, we don't really have the tools needed to effectively preform stand-off SEAD/DEAD operations at the moment.

ancient ice
autumn cypress
# oblique jasper Yea Third Party Targeting (3PT) is something that's already relatively common to...

Well, we have a problem with mom's kimikaze with 250kt bombs.
SEAD operations could never be conducted from a safe distance, the attacker must come within striking distance.
In terms of balance, I think it is necessary to increase the safe time of being at the S9's attack height so that the installation does not shoot at everything that moves, set the flight height above the ALDN sea to about 20m, and reduce the visibility of the arads to radars, and the signature with the engine off.

oblique jasper
#

Yea I was thinking maybe 3PT mostly being used against other aircraft. Reduce the RCS of the ARAD and you’re in a decent spot. Mostly, I’m just looking for the inclusion of MALDs/TALDs which would allow 3PT to be made much more powerful in response

ancient ice
oblique jasper
#

And yes, SEAD operations are almost always conducted within the WEZ of the target and many of its supporting systems, but currently our only standoff system is the ARAD. I think we just need more systems in this role to effectively flesh it out

#

Also, allowing the Medusa to 3PT the Stratolance providing no warning to the recipient would be a needed R9 buff imo

autumn cypress
ancient ice
oblique jasper
autumn cypress
oblique jasper
#

Yes

#

Ideally anything with radar guidance can be 3PT, but that’s primarily Stratolances and Scythes.

To be clear I love the Pablo and it’s an effective standoff weapon in most cases. But my larger point is currently for SEAD weapons we have 2 choices. I’m asking for more ways to augment those 2 ways so SAMs can be more dangerous

ancient ice
oblique jasper
#

they’re also decidedly mediocre in a SEAD role on anything that’s not an Ifrit

#

Compasses can use them against SHORAD and ground units relatively effectively, Medusa is the same….. wait the Revoker can carry 6 can’t it

#

Disregard. Shows how much I fly the revoker lmao

autumn cypress
#

up

silver seal
#

up 2

regal current
still burrow
#

This would be extremely overpowered, by virtue of

1: needing to notch two radar sources
2: needing to fly under 5 meters. That is nearly impossible without massive skill.

The game would be extremely unbalanced as everyone suddenly flies medusas

#

Suddenly any non medusa would be rendered instantly useless

ancient ice
still burrow
#

This is specifically SARH missiles

#

Imagine stratolances that don't care about notching and have a miniscule radar floor

dawn marlin
#

Imagine ducking below a mountain to hide from the HLT truck to dodge high R9 but instead the missile just comes down to you

autumn cypress
still burrow
#

Oh yea 5 meters
Reeeal easy to get below

autumn cypress
still burrow
#

Its realistic that look down radar is specifically made to minimize the radar floor

oblique jasper
#

Unironically, I don’t think this would be op at all. Jam the Medusa? It’s useless. Shoot down the Medusa? All good. Intercept the missile with a myriad of munitions (including S3s) all good

still burrow
#

Yea the problem is that it would make the medusa the only thing worth using

oblique jasper
#

Not at all

#

3PT is not as accurate as direct targeting. The 3PT platform is vulnerable to all sorts of attacks. It provides a reasonable and expected capability to near future SAMs to keep them relevant and reward quality counter SEAD operations

still burrow
#

Okay but 5 or 10 medusas

oblique jasper
#

I mean, you don’t have enough datalink capacity to do that. And now nothings stopping the revoker at Mach Jesus from hitting your bases

still burrow
#

Except the stratolances and boltstrikes that can see them quite easily, since they are being illuminated by the very powerful medusa radome

regal current
#

thats literally how it works irl tho

#

missiles being guided in by awacs is commonplace

still burrow
#

Okay, but that wouldn't be particularly balanced in Nuclear Option

silver seal
# regal current missiles being guided in by awacs is commonplace

Well only sort of since irl awacs guide ARH missiles not SARH missiles

The difference is that irl awacs only have to “vaguely” guide the missiles to the target before they use their own radars whereas in no, the Medusa would have to precisely guide the r9 into the cockpit of that ifrit

regal current
autumn cypress
rugged flame
#

Just make it so that Stratolans attack only the target that appears in the line of sight of their personal radar truck, and in case the target is lost from the radar truck's line of sight, without asking permission and without giving any authority to pilot used the pointing to this target from Medusa with Radome

autumn cypress
#

But seriously, the AWACS configuration of the Medusa is very unpopular now, as everyone uses the anti-radar configuration with the ARAD-116. This innovation will increase the popularity of the AVACS and make the jellyfish a higher priority target for the enemy team.

rugged flame
autumn cypress
silver seal
still burrow
silver seal
autumn cypress
edgy ore
autumn cypress
#

ask mitch

still burrow
# silver seal yes, but why?

Because I struggle with ARADs, like helping by spotting everything, and jamming a ton of things

Sometimes its a nice destresser

#

This would be overpowered because

1: The Medusa has the strongest radar, in a 360 range
2: The Medusa is easily able to defend itself
3: It would be nearly impossible to hide yourself from a team of medusas
4: With this, the game would become a Medusa fest, as it would have access to 40km range missiles that have a high hit chance
5: You could not just notch because there would be multiple medusas
6: Launched munitions getting shot down by missiles would become even more common because of the powerful medusa radar
7: Not all of NOs map is hilly enough to hide from missiles with terrain
8: Notching would not work, as you would have to notch multiple radar sources at once, and you have only so much jammer

warm tulip
#

Could just add friendly Stratolances to the Medusa’s weapon list, so the missile in question is tied to a specific plane rather than Medusas in general. Admittedly, the Medusa already has remarkably long weapon lists to cycle through in combat, and the range circle being tied to another object could wind up being clunky, but it’d mitigate the borderline impossibly of needing to hide from ten AI planes and the SAM site at once.

viscid blaze
#

medusa radar is likely search only...

still burrow
#

Medusa doesn't have Scythes, so no reason for it to have radar capable of locking

lucid ginkgo
still burrow
#

Also I still think this would be so completely overpowered

oblique jasper
#

I guess real life is op lmao

regal current
still burrow
# oblique jasper I guess real life is op lmao

Okay but do consider however.

Unlike real life, Nuclear Option vehicles aren't built for maximum effectiveness. They are built to be actually fun and balanced. The real world does not need to worry about fun.

It would not be fun to float around in a basically unkillable Medusa getting infinite kills, nor would it be fun to try and fight multiple near unkillable Medusas and get killed repeatedly

oblique jasper
still burrow
#

Yes, and I am stating that I think it should not, because I believe it would be objectively terrible for gameplay

autumn cypress
#

Oh no, I can't disable entire enemy long range SAM system by just destroying 2 units!

brave fractal
lucid ginkgo
brave fractal
autumn cypress
#

When 2 independent thinkers don't understand why their opinion unpopular in community

rugged flame
autumn cypress
#

Again. there is a problem that the configuration of the Medusa AWACS is rather unpopular, and almost useless in the realities of the game. I propose a solution that solves this problem and the problem of extremely vulnerable long-range air defense systems. Anticipating your concerns, I immediately offered countermeasures to balance, but you continue to say that it will be OP, and start talking about balance with weapons and technical characteristics, even though the balance in the game is performed by game mechanics.

#

The same again about the balance. The EW-25 does not control the launch of the ram45. It cannot illuminate multiple targets at once. It cannot highlight targets below it. He cannot maneuver to guide missiles. He is extremely vulnerable to enemy jammers.

still burrow
autumn cypress
still burrow
trim flax
autumn flower
lucid ginkgo
autumn flower
#

Not SARH but still the same deal when it comes to how the idea works

lucid ginkgo
autumn flower
#

Dude is saying directing the missiles with an awacs and this is roughly the same thing with what he says

spark sandal
# still burrow Yes, and I am stating that I think it should not, because I believe it would be ...

yeah i gotta agree here, while this does realistically make sense, it would make fighting medusas or even just traveling along uneven terrain a disaster

medusa radar range is crazy, the floor is very low, and i think people forget just how often these SAMs can launch

having an enemy medusa up with a radome would basically mean a constant barrage of missiles that more often than not can't be radar floored (the most common practice to evade radar missiles) and if we really want to look closely, the medusa is extremely strong defensively, it can intercept any long range hits and is very good at losing IR locks, and as long as it goes high it would be functionally unkillable as climbing to get to it would force you right into the open where all of the SAMs are, making you constantly notch the radar that you are trying to fly towards

still burrow
spark sandal
#

yeah having more than one radome medusa would make it literally unavoidable i didn't even think about that

warm tulip
#

Tie each missile to a specific locking Medusa, rather than having every Medusa continuously illuminating 360 degrees with whatever frequency the missile is looking for. Keeping the functionality in the players’ hands rather than letting the eighty AI Medusas spam it also seems reasonable.

still burrow
#

That's still 2 radars you'd need to notch

warm tulip
#

Defeating two different locks consecutively at the ranges Stratolances usually fire at doesn’t seem too bad. If they were set up to reacquire unless defeated simultaneously, that’d be awful.

spark sandal
#

i mean is it though?

#

at 15+ miles, you're still identifying the missile on the map, moving to notch, hold for two seconds, identify medusa, move to notch, hold 2 seconds, by the time there's probably another missile in the air already

what if the missile is at 5 miles?

not to mention if you actually want to go anywhere that isn't perpendicular to an enemy plane (like killing the enemy plane or the SAM sites)

warm tulip
#

Missiles being annoying to identify on the map is a separate issue.

#

One of them can be easily defeated with terrain, in fairness, and the Medusa will often be in a direction other than the one you want to fly.

spark sandal
#

the terrain in question:

1000_F_258754200_AUeylvOjSCJ7pB3kjPqJgnVo6w7o56b5.png
warm tulip
#

And jam pulling still exists if all else fails.

spark sandal
# warm tulip One of them can be easily defeated with terrain, in fairness, and the Medusa wil...

how would a medusa on the enemy side of the map not be where you're going to? idk what kind of sorites you fly but usually my ground attack missions are against enemy ground forces

like what if it's just chilling 10 km above naval base? any attacks on it get shot down, and you need to skim at doorway height across the entire ocean to even attempt an attack on the defenses while also evading IRs

that would be utterly miserable

warm tulip
#

It might be over the ocean while you’re trying to hit the highways, or east side while you hit anything west side. Unless the AI changes dramatically the Stratolance would still be wasting missiles on whatever they shoot at normally, rather than simply firing at you every five seconds.

In practice, how different would that actually be compared to attacking the island normally? Very few people attack it low, and that isn’t just because space Pablos is the meta. You have to fly on the deck (five versus twenty meters is a pretty big difference, in fairness, but in practice the tactics are the same just more annoying), dodging IRs when you get close, but they aren’t that hard to outrange. I could see deranged Chicane players cruising in and Linchpin-spamming half the defenses instantly even if they had to fly at five meters to do it.

If it really wound up as suffocating as you say, the 20 meter floor could be justified as a seeker limitation as well as a radar one, bringing the Medusa’s advantage over a just conventional Stratolance battery back to just a second angle to worry about.

warm tulip
#

Seems like the happy medium is making either the radar floor drop to five meters or you need to defeat two separate radar locations, but not both.

In a vacuum, I think my preferred implementation would be having it guide solely from the Medusa, rather than both, and drop the floor to five as a result.

lucid ginkgo
#

i think the best way to buff the medusa radome would just be spotting rewards

autumn cypress
lucid ginkgo
edgy ore
#

This would be more reasonable if SAMs couldn't spam infinite missiles
but as it is it's 1 missile every 5-10 seconds until the radar dies,24/7

spark sandal
# lucid ginkgo i think the best way to buff the medusa radome would just be spotting rewards

the medusa is already an extremely capable airframe, with so much going for it, i don't really know why people feel the need to make it stronger
it can solo multiple shards, jam, use arads, intercept missiles

the radome is a utility feature designed to help your team coordinate and detect enemies later on, not to give it some kind of expanded combat capability

in my opinion the most it should do is be able to act as a replacement for radar trucks, giving firing solutions to vehicles that lack their own radar when their normal radar source is killed

lucid ginkgo
spark sandal
#

i agree, as someone who frequently works alongside radome medusas to complete missions it seems to me like people want it to be something it's not

radome medusa is a support plane, and i think it does more than enough to justify its use already

lucid ginkgo
spark sandal
#

it lacks incentive, for lack of a better term, for selfish players

it's extremely important to have at least one radome up late game or else your team will be pretty much blind, and that impacts everyone

bringing up a little extra weight (it doesn't sacrifice any weapon hardpoints) is a small price to pay for still getting your mission done and helping your team massively

oblique jasper
silver seal
silver seal
edgy ore
silver seal
# still burrow This would be overpowered because 1: The Medusa has the strongest radar, in a 3...
  1. It has the strongest search radar, so when actually guiding in missiles, it could be made to be realtively weak (if the search radar has a 5m floor, the tracking radar could be given the normal 20m floor)
  2. the medusa is still subsonic and the radome does have a reasonable impact on performance. The laser is def very suefull defensively tho - I think using the radome should reduce the rate at which the capacitor recharges to slightly impact the amount of lasing and jamming you can do.
  3. Valid
  4. Yea valid
  5. also valid

problem with points 3-5 tho is if you have that many awacs medusas with zero ground attack, its very detrimental to the overall team. Or in other words a team full of medusas is not actually that op.

  1. at range the time it takes for an r9 to actually reach its target is very long - also if medusas can only guide only one or two stratos at a time, munition interception is pretty much a non-viable strat.
  2. Yeah but not really specific to this problem
  3. You would need for there to be simultaneously many medusas airborne, and for them to simultaneously fire their strato at the same target from many angles and from many strato sites. If the team has gone to this effort, they should probably get the kill.

Anyways

still burrow
spark sandal
# silver seal tbf carrying the radome means you can't carry the standard 6 arads plus jammers ...

i mean yeah, you do need to make a sacrifice to run it, and that's 100% intentional

the radome is a utility tool, it's different from the jammer, the laser, the arads in that you aren't using it to kill enemies, that's pretty much the point

this thread gives me the impression that people think everything that goes in a hardpoint slot must then be a weapon, and if you can't use it to directly kill something then it isn't useful enough

#

for example, the new tarantula is a transport plane with the ability to sacrifice that capability for a strong set of weapons

the medusa is an electronics warfare platform with the ability to destroy certain targets, and you can trade some of those electronics warfare capabilities to get more performance in the same way

it is a plane with the ability to shoot down aircraft or crush radar targets, but the real purpose behind it is to support teammates and protect vital targets, not to lock out airspace or project power outside of it's normal boundaries on the map, there are other platforms intended to do those roles

still burrow
#

The medusa is a support plane, in both configurations. Either you support by telling your teammates everything, or by protecting them from air defense

silver seal
still burrow
#

Except the Tarantula is not a CAS aircraft primarily, its a support aircraft with weapon options

silver seal
still burrow
#

It definitely doesn't. They are two wildly different roles and that doesn't address my concerns at all

silver seal
still burrow
#

AWACS is useful, especially in the late game where nobody has any radar left

spark sandal
#

technically the medusa is a support (jamming stuff and intercepting missiles) with a side of DEAD (using specialized ARADs to destroy radars)

i think it would make more sense to compare the radome to a supply crate in the tarantula

lucid ginkgo
spark sandal
#

technically the radome does lock you out of certain payload options due to weight (or so I've been told)

no such thing as a perfect simile anyway

silver seal
lucid ginkgo
spark sandal
#

"technically"

lucid ginkgo
#

no?

silver seal
lucid ginkgo
silver seal
dawn marlin
#

And medusa is quite forgiving when it comes to taking off with full fuel

edgy ore
#

but the climb rate and top speed/acceleration noticeably suffer

spark sandal
#

i wouldn't know i basically never use it for unrelated reasons

silver seal
lucid ginkgo
silver seal
viscid blaze
silver seal
brave fractal