Electronic Warfare Vehicles

[dim swallow]

I was thinking about this concept for a while now and thought I would post it here. I'm not sure how popular it would be but I do think that it would potentially add some more strategy without introducing any new game mechanics.

Essentially, I am proposing a short-range electronic warfare vehicle. These vehicles would function similarly to a Medusa's jammer and be able to jam targets at a distance of 5, 10, 15, or 20km (based on balance), this could be aircraft, munitions, radars, etc. These vehicles would potentially make key points harder to hit at long range, I think that perhaps they could be jammed by a friendly Medusa to counteract their jamming ability to give the Medusa another way to support the team.

[timid herald]

Yep, uhuh
i like it ill have 5

[fallen sierra]

These would only be able to jam ARH and SARH without being immune to A2G attacks. These would be awesome to support aerial assaults by giving friendly units a dome of (S)ARH safety. +1

[sly lodge]

This would introduce a more interesting dynamic to the game, not just to have more dynamic AD batteries, but also granting people some protection from radar missiles while moving towards an objective or retreating back to base for example.

It also gives an opportunity for some much needed grace areas for what is a map already heavily saturated with radar guided munitions (Stratolancers and ARH spammers). It would also better incentivise protecting convoys, because these things are definitely gonna be expensive and not common, but quite valuable assets.

It won't be quite as valuable on the bigger map Mitch is cooking for late this year, but very much so on the somewhat cramped current map. Overall, a fairly robust idea.

[dim swallow]

I think it would be a great way to have zones that, like you said, ARHs and SARHs would be nullified, so near an airbase you could have a "safe zone". It would also give enemy aircraft attacking an airbase a disadvantage because their datalink would not function and it would give the jamming effect to the UI that the medusa gives. The EWS vehicle itself though would be relatively easy to destroy.

[frail flare]

Ground jammers for convoys would be useful if stand-off weapons other than ALCM actually had a limited terminal guidance (4 km max), so they could shut them off datalink to prevent lock on.

[rancid sorrel]

Good idea! I like it. And make some time for refill capacitors energy. That will make them more balanced

[copper comet]

Ok, so why we dont do this in real life, and I think it matters for lore reasons, is communications. Doing "blanket" or "flood" jamming make commo very difficult to do. If it only turns on with inbound ordinance...well that means something triggered a "engagement loop/cycle" and if that has to happen its better to go for a hard kill then soft kill. Meaning its better to blow it up then risk it hitting you.

Only way I see this being practical is as part of an offensive, triggering jamming in convoys that are assaulting and moving forward. That or having it next to an IR sam in a gully for ambush. The jammer should make the target "icon" wobble around so you cant even try to dumb bomb with accuracy till you have optical lock.

on a side note ground units should be able to pop thermal smoke, that is smoke with aluminum flakes ect. Basically chaff for ground, prevents optical, radar, or IR lock on. A vehicle I got to work with was capable of this and it wasn't anything special, just a fancy grenade in a welded on …if you call a more or less normal tube a launcher lol

Be nice if planes got chaff too...

[normal marsh]

I feel like chaff should've came in 0.28 but beggars can't be choosers. Really hoping it makes its arrival soon

[fallen sierra]

Hope they let us load tarantula bay with 3000 kg of chaff so we can make an impenetrable radar shield for friendlies

[normal marsh]

Feel like I'm not clued in on what Tarantula is

[fallen sierra]

The quad tilt rotor VTOL transport AC130

[normal marsh]

Badass name for that, thanks for the info. I didn't know there was a working name for it

[dim swallow]

Think of it as if an AC130 and V22 had a child

[normal marsh]

Oh yea I'd seen some of the concept images, I just hadn't heard the Tarantula name for it. Very cool platform. N/O is the gift that keeps on giving

Sorry to go off topic for a second

[dim swallow]

All good, I even forgot where we were lol

[fallen sierra]

Tbf this is not a blanket jammer like the ones used in the RU UA conflict. The reason they blanket jam is that they cant reliably detect low flying drones and do directed jamming attacks at them. This is more like a ground version of the dusa Jammer where it focuses detected datalink targets. The real world analog are EA-6 and EA-18 doing targetted jamming vs sam sites to keep them stupid for SEAD

[copper comet]

You are still doing a "soft" kill in an engagement loop that favors "hard" kill. I see little up side with jamming that just detonating the ordinance doesnt, unless at long range where "hard" kill takes to long to reach compared to jamming and a "soft" kill isnt a danger to your forces.

The idea of being in a convoy and hoping the now jammed and unguided missile doesnt hit close enough to missile kill or just kill kill me and/or my buddies...yeah just give me a phalanx on a flatbed lol

[fallen sierra]

The game has no jammable A2G missiles tbf

[fiery elbow]

Laser dazzler turret:

[copper comet]

Huh...forgot about that...idea of jammer in convoy/ground unit made me look at it from that angle but your right...

To be fare I was thinking in terms of real world weapon systems and plenty of ATGMs are jammable so I forgot that they are not in game. Even more reason to give ground units thermal smoke/chaff.

[fallen sierra]

All the missiles are optical, youll need more like a laser strong enough to mess with the camera itself

[fiery elbow]

Still possible

[copper comet]

Doesnt take that strong of a laser to burn out cameras. I may know of a few cameras that got destroyed by a large, but still handheld, IR laser. If you know how to do some soldering and where to buy such things online its not hard to make your own that is good enough to take out just about any sensor. Focusing and diffusion are the two issues. Military doesnt have that issue though.

[fallen sierra]

Issue is range. If i am 50 meters away hell yeah can I destroy a camera with a handheld laser. Issue is square law. Sure the squaring distance is longer for lasers due to the small FOV, but at missile ranges this is gonna be an issue at least with today tech. the next 5 years may show what lasers can do.

[copper comet]

Yes and no, we are speaking of vehicle mounted for in game. I just gave a handheld IRL example. Now scale it up to something on a Stryker APC and have it be from 2070? Yeah, it will likely more then work...if a medusa can carry it, a Stryker likely can.

I doubt its the size of a 105mm plus ammo, plus lasers dont have recoil (until you get to REALLLLLY massive scale...dont get me started on how fast the Death Star should have been able to move with that UberLazer)

[fiery elbow]

why not add a laser dazzler turret to it to protect against incoming optical missiles?

if it were radar guided you could make it vulnerable to ARADS so it can be countered

[frail flare]

250-500 kg bomb splash would counter them better, even without guidance

[dim swallow]

The idea I had behind this would be more to setup a static defence around bases / HVTs. It would create a zone where radar guided missiles would not be able to target aircraft and make tageting anything around them difficult due to jamming an aircrafts' sensors (assuming the vehicle wasn't being overloaded). It would function exactly like a medusa, but with only one jammer pod and a slower recharge rate.

Mostly just to simplify and not make anything that would require new mechanics to be created.

(Like optical jammers)

[copper comet]

Hence the "soft kill" vs "hard kill" I was talking about... blow up the ordinance dont just let it smack near by.

[copper comet]

I think this plus maybe laser turrets could work, if it firts in a plane then you for sure could get it working in a bunker.

[fallen sierra]

imo SPAAG is already the hardkill ground vehicle. This thing + SPAAG is the combo you want

[sly lodge]

That, as well as the fact that cramming a laser and an EW system, both very energy and space demanding systems into a single hull is uhh...

[fallen sierra]

Also consider energy usage. On medusa you have a multi ton thrust generator providing energy. This on ground is a bit questionable

[sly lodge]

Basically my point, + space availability in a ground vehicle.

[copper comet]

You can tie it into base power, no plane provides anything like a true powerplant...a big ship maybe...but not a plane...

For ground vehicles, we have a big honking microwave projector hooked up to a humvee right now...I thing in the future something as big as a Stryker could have a decent power generation or battery on board

That does make me wonder...what if we gave ground defenses masers?

[sly lodge]

Space for EW system + batteries or a laser weapon + batteries, sure. Space for both? Dubious, especially without breaching forum worldbuilding rule 1.

[copper comet]

Well it was a laser OR EW not both

I see how my phrasing could be taken as both on one. I meant for it to be 2 different ground units.

[sly lodge]

The laser defence vehicle would have to be its own suggestion then, and I think people have already asked for it.

[copper comet]

It was more of a joint forces thing. As in its hard to talk about one part of the picture without talking about how it ties into the rest.

[cloud gale]

I would really like to see this implemented. It would be a nice quality of life improvement for players -- it would reduce the likelihood of them getting "spawn camped" by ARMs as they take off and land, which is annoying. And if it's provided by a vehicle, then it can be destroyed like any other air defense, which is fair.

[brave magnet]

as long as you move arms are not a threat, and you can just turn your radar off (unbound by default)

[cloud gale]

I meant Scythes. ARH missiles. And I have had Scythes continue to home in on me while I was on the runway, well below the radar floor.

[fallen sierra]

Below or above 15km?

[cloud gale]

You're talking about range, I assume? It was from about 10 miles away.

[fallen sierra]

At 16km out it doesn't care about your alt yet
If you are below radar alt and it never locks you its gonna go until its 2km away so youll get warning until 2km

[brave magnet]

it guides solely on datalink until 10km, at which point it turns on its own radar to search you, and keeps trying to search you until 2km. if it has not found you by then, it shuts off datalink and is unguided.

[cloud gale]

Very interesting. This is getting off topic, but shouldn't any radar that is feeding the datalink information to the Scythe also stop seeing an aircraft after it touches down (and is therefore below even the radar floor of a Medusa radome)?

And regardless of the technicalities of whether a Scythe can home in on a ground target (it can, by the way; I have absentmindedly hit MBTs with Scythes when I forgot to switch to AGM-68s), I think it would be good for the game to give an added layer of protection to players who are low, slow, and vulnerable immediately before/after takeoff and landing. At least at the big well-established airfields in the back lines.

[brave magnet]

if there is a unit close enough to see you optically, it will share datalink information

[rancid sorrel]

I have some concepts for electronic warfare.

1. Radar stationary flying drone. Good thing if you lost all radars. With range 20-30 km. It could be launched from weapon bays with size for cruisle missle. And time of work that radar drone must be not infinite. Maybe several minutes 7-20. It could be very good and for places where radars not installed but better if it would be.
2. Radar jammer flying drones. They could be different sizes. Small, middle, large. Every jammer drone will have different jamming ability and time of working. Jamming ability could be like jamm of vision effect (when medusa jamm aircraft), jamm vision effect and jamming several types of missles(maybe ground, AAM missles, IR missles, radar missles). With several types of jamming strategy, everytime jamming, or with reloading. And have several types of area jamming. Bigger - better, more radius, more abilities and etc.

[dim swallow]

Regarding our recent conversation, these could act as directed jammers (similar to medusa) or perhaps just blanket jam Datalink in any given area around the vehicle

[desert briar]

I think it should have a big dish,to make it obvious what it is aiming at,even on the visual feed

[ember wadi]

i think it shouldnt spawn naturally but rather be dropped in by the tarantula

[vagrant pawn]

it seems to me that the tracked base is more relevant. well. based on real combat experience.

[trail drum]

If you want it to provide safe zones around bases just make it a building and have a smalled version which is worse but mobile and only has the jammer for convoys and can jam a max of 2/3 missilss

[spiral girder]

In terms of "soft-kill" creating datalink "dark zones" where you would lose updates and be unable to share what your own sensors see is probably the best way to go for a ground based system

"Hard-kill" on the other hand I've got another idea for that, which might also be useful in another suggestion i recently made. Rather than lasers it would be an HPM (high power microwave) system. Where a laser tries to detonate the fuel/warhead, this would be about frying the control electronics, so the weapon would make crazy maneuvers that lead to it missing the target

HPM can simultaneously engage multiple targets, but because it's the loss of control that kills the target a weapon might still hit friendly forces, even if they aren't the intended target

[trail drum]

Bump