Automatic Terrain Avoidance System (when blacked out)

[south widget]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Ground_Collision_Avoidance_System
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/autogcas.html

This kind of system has been in use for years now. It's already in use in aircraft such as the F35 and F16 and it already saved pilots lives so it wouldn't make much sense to not have this safety feature in aircraft decades from now. You could say that it requires skill to keep you on the verge of blacking out and doing so should result in some kind of consequence but it's not like the system takes over dogfighting for you all it does is to change to a steady trajectory to avoid crashing into terrain while you are blacked out and for the sake of realism there should be this kind of feature. Of course you should still be able to crash when in full control and this should only activate when you are blacked out.

On the subject of how smart this system should be that's a different topic in it's own. For the sake of easier implementation it should probably be more of a "dumb" system meaning it will avoid crashing into terrain but that doesn't mean that path won't lead you to getting shot at from AA so there still can be very bad consequences for blacking out.

[tough glade]

interesting, that is all i really have to say.

[celest forge]

+1

[tranquil mural]

AGCAS would be heaven for idiots like me that black out during a CAS mission

by heaven i mean, good not dead

[wintry galleon]

It would be excellent!

Right now, pressing M for the map when blacked out triggers the previous joystick input upon "simulated GLOC" This allows a pull up maneuver to be completed despite the pilot not being available. logically similar to GCAS though a bit more manual and not as smart. (for example blacking out on a roll maneuver would just continue the roll and not avoid terrain)

The Revoker is capable of a 10.1G maneuver this way.

Would be excellent to have a smart system to help the pilot survive.

That said, 10 G's to save a pilot, can incur injuries, since the pilot is not conscious to "strain" and "handle" the G forces in a way that is more tolerable on the body.

[grizzled sequoia]

We need this

[sleek plaza]

B

[dry lichen]

tbh i feel like terrain is part of the punishment for blacking out

[hollow olive]

^ I agree,I think it should stay the way it is
except that the pitch limiter should turn itself off when you're heading towards the ground

[balmy heath]

We need higher g loc then ngl

[languid heath]

If the pilot is already blacked out when this engages, and this automated system pulls a high g manuver, is it possible it'd damage the pilot? Would be interesting to have your pilot die due to g forces

[rocky spoke]

If you add this you eliminate some maneuver kills in PVP. People will just get better with g lok management the more they play. If people are unhappy about the g mechanics, perhaps they need to be adjusted?

[cold terrace]

It would be enough to remove this option when removing flight assists so that those who are good at doing maneuvers without flight assists and without going into G lock can still kill the opponent.

[steady valley]

You try to kill best revokers killer ? Not bad, but... What if same system will work not so good will be you cannot make to much blacked out maneuvers?

[rocky spoke]

That’s a fair addition.

[fiery valley]

#1282849386098982985 message

[gleaming sierra]

Your pilot would be blacked out for another few seconds

[sleek plaza]

auto-GCAS doesn't pull 20g, it pulls 10g on average

[cold terrace]

Yes and that's another good reason why it wouldn't affect PvP much since if you stay in G lock for many seconds you're dead regardless especially in dogfight

[sleek plaza]

if you in a dogfight, it would mean instea dof a manuver kill they would get a gun kill

[scenic quarry]

I really like this idea if nothing else than purely for the realism honestly I would be happy with more smart features for aircraft in general in the game as honestly I feel like every aircraft would have its own integrated AI by 2077

[sand ember]

It’s generally good to have systems that help bridge the gap between new and experienced players. Especially if it’s another realistic gadget added to our planes. This should make manoeuvre kills more well earned and satisfying. +1

[woeful forum]

I think this would work best if it only triggered when the plane was approaching terrain without control input, and otherwise just said "Altitude" or "Terrain" verbally. It'd save players in G-loc or distracted by the map/menus, but wouldn't interfere with someone intentionally trying to fly at very low altitude.

[gleaming sierra]

I think it should also be toggleable if made available

[feral hull]

That would be the plan, kinda like warthunder, the goal would be to help people learn better how to not do things that lead to unresponsive crashes,

Opening the menu at high speed, blacking out, bad terrain following skills. Which would put limits on their ability to perform low level maneuvers which would lead them to turn it off eventually when they have it set.

Or just making it so it only works when you have no control and can be turned off would be good. The people who hate this seem to dislike it on the grounds it's either too easy or restricts mobility kill attempts, I don't think it's fun or rewarding when I get a kill because the newer player I'm dogfighting blacks out and hits a hill, id much rather they crash trying to maneuver at low level when they can't figure out how to dodge a missile

[gleaming sierra]

Isn't that still a mobility kill?

[feral hull]

Yea that's my point. My point it's it's basically stopping one, really really unrewarding kind of mobility kill. Which shouldn't really matter to people as much as it apparently does

[wary spoke]

Considering that you already can pull off some pretty tight turns without fully blacking out, I dont really think this kind of automation is needed.

[gleaming sierra]

Stopping a subjectively enjoyed/disliked type of kill isn't enough to warrant a new gameplay mechanic imo. But I'd still like it in the game nevertheless

[feral hull]

I don't think the point would be stopping it im just saying that I don't think the argument that it shouldn't be added because of that, as a few people have stated, is really all that valid.

[feral hull]

For the sake of argument say that is completely true, does it really matter? The option to turn it off means no one would ever have to use it if they don't want. And implementing it really wouldnt be that difficult due to the addition of things like the auto hover system the framework for making this work is probably mostly there already. It's not like it would be detrimental to development so would it matter all that much if it wasn't necessary? I don't really think so. Especially because if we use that logic then, any accessibility feature ever is technically unnecessary, but it would be kinda bad to not include them.

[scenic quarry]

Personally I really want it in the game for realism and as I stated before I feel like all aircraft at this point would feature various different automatic pilot Survival Systems possibly even an auto eject system

Besides as others have stated before I don't think it would really do anything aside from make it easier for newer people to pick up the game especially if it only kicked in when your pilot blacked out or you had your map open

[wary spoke]

Its not really about accessibility. Imo the game is already plenty accessible. Having this would favour reckless flying and be potentially punishing for those not wanting to use it. Autohover is a bit different. It doesnt give you as much advantage as ground avoidance would. If anything, it makes you less maneuverable and an easier target. Its more of a utility function than a combat one.

Dont get me wrong. Im fine with some automation, just not the kind that will eventually make the plane fly itself without us doing anything.

[feral hull]

I'm not saying your wrong but the end of your comment sounds like the slippery slope fallacy, I don't see this going any further then a tool to help with terrain avoidance in a 0 input situation.

Keep in mind, if the plane does this while you are glocked, you will just get glocked again, but this time not towards the ground, you would be incredibly vulnerable when it happens these systems pull enough Gs to black out the most experienced pilots. It's really just an aid like auto hover is, it will make you more vulnerable, that is the punishment for your mistake, you might black out and have it activate and get thrown into the worst possible position.

Also yea it kinda would be an accessibility feature but also that wasn't my point, you acted like it shouldn't be done because it would be unnecessary, but kinda by definition any feature that adds accessibility is also unnecessary. So wouldn't there addition have the same issue?

[wary spoke]

I mean, if it does make you more vulnerable then sure, why not? I will happily shoot down those easy targets, if what youre saying really is true.

[hollow olive]

Crashing in this situation is deserved and I don't see why players shouldn't be punished for mistakes

[limpid hull]

6.5g is comically low g lock threshold. and while u are right it happens less often with more practice it's a real life technology that exists and part of the design of this game is "not nerfing real life tech". however I do kinda think this is far down the road, like, we don't even have a rudimentary autopilot for holding altitude right now, so something like autoGCAS might be further down the road than that

if you're worried about it "taking away punishment", make it only activate if you leave the stability assist on before you black out.

[feral hull]

I think people would like your view more if you stopped saying it's deserved, it's a video game. You are acting like the act of being bad at flying and needing help learning is a crime. It also doesn't remove punishment from mistakes it makes different punishments for them that in all honesty are probably more effective teaching tools. But that's more psychology than is really necessary for a basic discussion about learning assist systems in a flight game.

I mean again warthunder did the same thing and that works pretty well tbh.

[abstract olive]

i think this discussion has gone on for long enough, thanks everyone for your contributions

great points for and against this have been made